Animals, Nature, and You
“Animals Nature and You” celebrates the curiosity around the connection we have with the natural world.
In this podcast, we will be looking at the science and the personal experiences of experts, and everyday people. From conservationist and animal care staff to filmmakers and authors. We’ll talk to backyard birders, wildlife experts, naturalist, animal behaviorists, veterinarians and so much more.
Join us on this curious odyssey, let’s explore and reconnect together! It’s all about the connections we feel and the connections we long for.
It’s about Animals, Nature, and You!
Animals, Nature, and You
Replay: Meet the Founder of Global Conservation Force, Mike Veale
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This is a RePlay of Episode 06 from February 2026...
In this episode, Mike Veale, the founder and CEO of Global Conservation Force, discusses the organization's multifaceted approach to wildlife conservation. Global Conservation Force brings together a team of experts, volunteers, and community members to work towards saving endangered species. Mike shares the pillars of conservation work, the founding of the GCF, the importance of conservation efforts, and how individuals can contribute. Mike shares personal experiences and highlights the interconnectedness of wildlife and human communities, emphasizing the need for ongoing support and education in conservation.
Rick wraps up this episode with a facts about rhinos and rhino poaching, and how you can help animals like the rhinoceroses from your own home.
Connect with Global Conservation Force:
Rick's website: ZoologyRick.com
Find Rick on social media:
Music: Positive Carefree Folk Pop
Artist: Burgberg
Used with Full Music Standard Lic.
Hey, welcome to a special episode of Animals, Nature, and You. This is a special episode because it's a replay. Believe it or not, after almost six months of doing, well, I guess over six months of doing this, if you count all the prep going into this podcast, I'm taking a vacation. With that, though, I didn't want to leave you hanging. I didn't want to skip any episodes because we have so many more cool episodes coming up. In fact, if you haven't, I want to tell you right now, please hit subscribe or follow so you don't miss later this month and into next month. We have some episodes coming up. Orangutan conservation, pet therapy, how that human-animal connection really impacts and makes a difference. Dublin Zoo and the conservation work they're doing. And then even what is it like to be a parent, a mother specifically in the world of animal care and conservation? How is it to be caring for another living being at home and another one in the wild or in the zoo? So there's lots of great conversations coming up, but this is a replay. My probably a third or fourth episode, maybe fourth or fifth episode, was with Mike Veal, the founder of and the director of Global Conservation Force. I wanted to replay this one specifically because I love their work. I think it's important. And I know we've gained a lot of new followers and listeners over these last few months. So it's quite possible you haven't gone back and listened to some of the original ones. I think Mike's message is really important. Mike's story is a good one on how anybody can make a difference. And again, I do believe greatly in what Global Conservation Force is doing. And so if this is an opportunity to introduce someone to them who's never heard about them, well, then it's an opportunity that needs to happen. So with that, we're going to jump right into the original cut of this episode with Mike Feel and Global Conservation Force.
SPEAKER_00And conservation metrics help us come back into balance.
SPEAKER_01I'm Rick Schwartz, educator, public speaker, and all-around curious guy. Over the years, my curiosity and experiences, along with the many people I've worked with, revealed to me we all have a desire to feel connected to the natural world. You're listening to Animals, Nature, and You, a podcast that explores the connection between animals, nature, and humans. A podcast that celebrates learning more, following our curiosity, and reconnecting with the natural world. Welcome to another episode of Animals, Nature and You. I appreciate you being here and you know that. And you probably also know because I say it just about every episode. I'm very excited for the guests we have today. But honestly, that's kind of the cool thing about running your own show and doing your own podcast, is you can reach out to people that you think the work they're doing is really cool, and then you get to interview them and talk with them. So this is exciting for me. The if you're watching also on YouTube, you can see the shirt I'm wearing here. Is that uh it is the Protect the Things You Love shirt from Global Conservation Force, a global conservation group doing amazing work. And we just happen to be interviewing the guy who put it all together today, so that's fun. But before we get into the introduction, speaking of global, the way my podcast is distributed, I get to see where the downloads are happening in by regions. So I can tell that there is a handful and a half of people that are listening in Europe, both the the UK and France. There's a few people listening here and there in other parts of the world. Specifically, though, there's one person who's listening in Hong Kong. So whoever you are, thank you. I I hope you continue to enjoy the podcast. Of course, everybody across the U.S. and even some in Australia too. So thank you everybody for your support. We're only three weeks in, and it's really been a lot of work, a lot of fun, and getting great feedback. So I appreciate you following along as we go on this adventure together and interview these cool people. With that being said, too, I want to ask a big favor. Make sure you listen to the very end, because the end of this episode, I'm gonna add on some extra facts and interesting information about why the work Global Conservation Force is doing is so important. I think for a lot of us we know why, but just in case you want some talking points, people ask, well, why should I care? You can have those in your pocket. So keep listening to the very end on my outro. I'll add some extra information for you. So without further ado, let me introduce you to Mike Veal. He is the founder and CEO of Global Conservation Force, a nonprofit dedicated to protecting wildlife, specifically endangered wildlife, through education, anti-poaching work, and community empowerment. With years of field experience in Africa and Asia, Mike has trained ranger units, developed canine and mounted patrol programs, which is incredibly impressive, by the way. We'll get into that. And he's also worked hands-on with endangered species like rhinos and pangolins. The work Mike does bridges the gap between frontline conservation and global awareness, inspiring action to happen and take place to safeguard the planet's most vulnerable wildlife. And here's the thing, too. He travels all the time, super busy. So, Mike, I can't thank you enough, knowing how busy your schedule is, I can't thank you enough for being here and joining me on Animals, Nature, and You.
SPEAKER_00Hey, Rick, thanks for having me on. It's uh it's honestly uh an honor and a privilege to join you. I'm excited.
SPEAKER_01Many, many months ago, I was doing a lot of Instagram lives. You were kind enough to spend some time with me on that as well. But you know, the podcast is separate. So I want to make sure the listening audience knows who you are and what you do with Global Conservation Force. We we talked a little bit about it, or I talked about a little bit in the intro to kind of give people an idea of what you do. But I'd love to hear it from you. What is Global Conservation Force and what do you do for them?
SPEAKER_00Sure. So Global Conservation Force is best described as a kind of a full-scale applied conservation organization. And applied conservation is a lot of categories that I think the public would assume are being taken care of or included in regular conservation work, but we work in the spheres of many of like the hard graft of the actual boots on the ground stuff. So we have four pillars of conservation. Um we have our anti-poaching pillar, which includes our rangers, supporting other ranger teams, tech development, um, intelligence operations, and our canines, as well as so many other facets. We have counter-wildlife trafficking, which is uh everything from being in the United States and supporting investigations to working in Africa and gathering information about, you know, syndicates that may be pressuring a local community and getting that information to an actionable body or being part of the investigation. And then we have our community efforts, which include um actually things with kids and education outings and education programs, vocational and professional trainings for community members to become conservationists. Uh, and then our our our other realm would be this right here, education and awareness. That realm fits everything from training law enforcement professionals in the latest trends of the way current rhino poachers and traffickers are moving to doing classroom visits and documentaries, kind of a wad, a wide swath of the the you know physical applications.
SPEAKER_01So, how do you do all that? And so, you know, obviously you and I, we've known each other for a while. I I've been a part of the wildlife world for a while, more in the zoo settings, but understanding and working with conservation groups. So when you say you're you're doing anything from boots on the ground, supporting rangers, training rangers, et cetera, so that is literally the front line of dealing with protecting wildlife, such as rhinos or pangolin or or any other species that is heavily trafficked for parts or all of their body, then you're also covering and supporting law enforcement on the, you know, now we're looking at what's already being shipped or sent and needs to be intercepted and/or stopped on that level as well, or the syndicates and the groups that are doing this work and infiltrating that. Then also all the way to educating kids and getting people excited to understand what's going on in the wilds and how they can help, why they need our help. That's an awful lot, Mike. Uh, you know, it's I said in the in the intro, you're the the president CEO. Tell me more about how this started. What was the the starting point? Was it you and a bunch of people got together and said we need to do this, or how'd that play out?
SPEAKER_00So essentially, I have a long background in several different disciplines of wildlife conservation, more applied animal stuff, uh, things like professional rehab, um, working with reintroductions, and being a uh wildlife care specialist, a senior wildlife care specialist for many years, and being interconnected to so many different like direct lines of people working in the field in so many areas, uh over time I noticed there were a lot of discrepancies in where the help was. Uh research gets funded a lot. Um, however, where we assume money is going, because you know, the word conservation is broad, I noticed that a lot of like the harder hit zones or the more difficult, less sexy things were the things that should be funded that weren't being funded. And it actually was really kind of like shocking to me. Um, so in 2012, uh, while also working as a ranger in the US um and being a senior wildlife care specialist and working with the Northern White Rhinos, essentially it dawned on me that the current landscape of nonprofits is not impacting the necessary field needs as much as they should be because the funding's not reaching where the disparities are, like the real hard things, to which I realized grants also didn't reach many of those needed categories. So I left the United States and I went into ranger training uh in South Africa in the greater and the greater and the Krueger National Park itself. Uh I graduated as a specialized roundup protection unit ranger on a joint operations task force team. Uh so I went from being a standard ranger in their setting to a working with like an intelligence team and what would be equivalent of a SWAT team and an investigations unit. So depending on the task and the the patrol at hand, we may be pursuing rhino poachers, doing a rhino crime scene, or working with the government, their equivalent of the FBI, and doing a raid on a facility where there was weapons and horn stashes. And what that really came into another chapter of starting this was is I was trialing out projects based on understanding the real gaps of needs. And along my journey, I started to pull specialists from each of these other team types, uh, knowing that there's no way I could do it all myself, nor would I want to. I really would want to build a team. And so Global Conservation Force was fully founded. We started the paperwork in 2014. It came through in 2015 as a nonprofit. Um, and by the time it was a full-fledged nonprofit team, um, I had kind of collected some of the world's best in many different disciplines as either advisors, instructors, or team members to run and manage and start projects. To which we use a term that comes from more of the military world in special forces, which luckily a lot of my team of team members are, and that's the power of force multiplication, exponential reach. So train the trainer, duplicate yourself so that you maximize your efforts. And that was one of the starting core foundational goals because uh what we saw was the need was a sea of trouble, and we were drops of water in a giant ocean. And so we needed to try to really kind of jump out there and put another joke we use is like, you know, put some of these Jedi's out there into the mix of this world who could be there the entire time and start facilitating mentorship, instructing, and advanced operations, which would make things more cost efficient and effective, um, you know, increasing their impact. But also, you know, when you start to invest in people, that pays dividends really quick in successes. So we started to see that. And that's kind of how like that big arc journey started and formed, and now we're, you know, 13, 14 years later, in like the past the beginning, beginning, and now we're in 26 countries.
SPEAKER_01That's impressive because you're talking basically a little over 10 years from inception to that kind of reach. I want to go back to what you said. There's all this work that needs to be done. Yeah. And one thing that we saw near the end of 2025 is right here in the United States, there was an attempt for and ongoing issues with the government trying to deregulate the protected lands, which then impacts also endangered species. They're looking at trying to dismantle or change the Endangered Species Act. And I know from my experience in the last 30-something years, a lot of people kind of had this attitude that there's laws in place. So they they can't, you know, why why do we need conservation groups going out and protecting animals and doing this work, especially looking at what you do on a global level? Obviously, laws are different around the world and nation, but even for those areas that do have laws in place where it is illegal to poach a rhino or other species, why are organizations like yours needed and so important?
SPEAKER_00I think that is a great starting point. And I think you and I could have many discussions on these topics because there's case studies by region and then type of conservation effort. So um starting with South Africa as an example, over now what I believe is it's I I can't give you the exact number, but it's over 70% of the remaining living rhino population is in private game reserve hands. At the same time, the national parks are big and they have unions and they have other rules and regulations, and they are quote funded. But let me describe what a funded national park is in South Africa. That means the salary is paid and there's a vehicle budget and they get one uniform change a year and that's it. So no training, no professional development, no external applications, no like nothing. So what happens a lot of times is if they want something as basic as adding a DGI drone to their patrol, there's no budget for it, and there will never be a budget for it. So having a nonprofit that can bring in instructors, teach the course, get them certified as pilots, and then give them the drone and then have it manageable. That's a whole wing of nonprofit activity right there. If we talk about private game reserves, South Africa and Southern Africa in general are rather unique in how they uh fund conservation. A private game reserve uh has no less value than a national park and biodiversity. In fact, a lot of times they function a lot better because there's less cooks in the kitchen at every level and they function much more like a tight team versus a you know big kind of multi-department corporation. And also they're not at the whim or the politics of people getting elected and changing things drastically overnight. Um, so pirate game reserve, we talk about funding by bednight, and this is another realm that we work in in GCF. If a reserve is putting lodges onto uh the game reserve, they may not all be owned by the same operator, but putting a conservation levy per person staying each night funds the conservation activity. So every guest coming at base value is funding the survival of the entire operation within that property. That's fence line fixes, wildlife monitoring, veterinary procedures, ranger salaries, and the guides who drive the guests around, um, as well as their entire experience. So that's an expensive overhead, very, very expensive. And it's 100% dependent on tourism. So if a private game reserve is small and only has 20 bed nights and they don't charge that much, their conservation budget is capped at the capacity of who's ever staying. And when there's things in the world like uh the COVID pandemic and people stop traveling and staying, all of a sudden all of that funding's gone. And as a private game reserve, they're not getting government funding and they're not getting any external funding by any state or provincial body. And so it's crucial that there's nonprofit partners for those settings because they cannot essentially survive or exceed their standard base operating because of the financial cap where guests can't stay in Ford and come and do the whole mechanical aspect. Now you look at the United States, and then we have a different issue. We have beautiful, massive national parks, and it's assumed that they're well funded, and it's assumed that they're really well guarded, but in all reality, they function at the lowest capacity functionality possible with government budgets. They don't have the range of force sizes that we actually see in South Africa or Kenya at all for density and coverage. They don't have the same law enforcement capacity or um, you know, systems because the parks are bigger, they don't have fences, but at the same time, the threats and issues are different. So you on average have one to two wardens per 60 miles in a national or state park region, um, and that might be a wildlife warden, and then the rangers of enforcement inside, we're talking about you know, maybe 12 in some of those areas, whereas like a ranger team that's covering the size of San Diego County might be 60 rangers in South Africa or Southern Africa with 24 to 32 on shift at a time. So there's a lot of disconnect in I think the base understanding, like you know, a lot of people know about national parks in the US because we started the national park system and it's famous and it's so well published, but that never equates to the reality of what's actually going on in the the physical management.
SPEAKER_01Right. And I I think that's it's been my experience anyhow in having discussions with people. There's this illusion that because there's a national park, be it here in the US or somewhere else, like you said, it's well funded, it's well taken care of, there's laws in place protecting things, and and the reality is, like you said, very small budget, very, very slim margin for funding people to actually uh patrol it, care for it, manage it, et cetera. And and with that, then you know, we look at what your organization does, Global Conservation Force. We look at rhinos as a great example. I I know it's one of the main animals you guys work with, but that you know, you have somebody who who is offering up an awful lot of money for that horn. Somebody's gonna find a way to eventually get in there and try and get it. And unfortunately, that means the animal usually has to be killed. So, groups like yours doing what you're doing, I you know, you described it beautifully there, as far as being able to fund where the funding gaps are, being able to create training opportunities. Let's say someone listening to this wants to somehow get involved, support, or do something for conservation, whether it's Global Conservation Force or whatever. But as we all know, right now we're we're all happening to pinch pennies and it's it's kind of a tough situation. Can you explain the value in even just either donating $5 only or doing something to help raise awareness on their part to help bring forward more information to other people, kind of give that opportunity for people to go, oh, that's how I can help. That's how I can participate and support what Global Conservation Force is doing and see a path forward in these challenging times that we're all facing economically.
SPEAKER_00There's so many ways to be involved, and I'm glad you bring that up because so, first of all, being involved in conservation doesn't have to cost money. I think one of the first things you can do is become educated based on the resource resource experts of each arena. And that alone is going to make you drastically more informed in ways that will change how your impact goes towards where you're you know focusing in conservation. Unfortunately, like liking animals and liking conservation and just just stopping there with your education actually tends to not have the desired reach because there are there are groups out there that don't reach the ground. There are groups out there that don't truly make the impact. And finding species you like or areas of the world you like and you know, whittling your way towards the impact is is really important. And that's where like then sharing posts and sharing activities and events can matter, attending any like volunteer programs or signing up as a volunteer. Um, and then the the value of like donating five bucks a month, uh now less than a coffee, which is crazy to say. Right. It's true though. It's wild. Um so like let me say from our perspective, we are extremely thankful for anybody who's doing recurring donations because it gives us a predictable budget. And that is actually something that's not super common in in nonprofits. Uh unless you have some mega funder who's in the shadows who's, you know, then they don't usually have these same issues or then they're actually too normally not in these arenas. Yeah, unfortunately. Unfortunately. So someone who's donating five bucks a month, to you, it may be a coffee sacrifice once a month that, you know, at some major brand. But to us, when 500 people start donating five bucks a month, that's a lot of funding for us because our funding, when we're using it from the US collection side into our application of projects, the currency exchange is usually one to 12 at the lowest, one to 30 at the highest for some countries. So your five bucks is being times 10 to 20 to 30. And then at the same time, we work really hard to get in-kind donations and for-profit companies to donate their products so that those donations travel even further. For example, a holster company comes on board and they can replace all the really bad quality holsters that the Rangers have. And now we don't have to buy $30, $250 holsters. Now we're just, you know, transporting it. So it might be the extra check bag cost for 40 or 60 bucks. Um, it might be and, you know, in so many applications, it could even be, you know, okay, well, we're doing holsters, but we're going to do first aid kits too now. So it starts to amplify pretty quickly, very and make a large impact for us.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I want to point out too, your website is set up so nicely when you go to the donation page for Global Conservation Force, there's an opportunity to see, okay, this amount of money can do this, this amount of money can do that. So if you're heart-centered on wanting to definitely support the Rangers or, you know, help with dog training or whatever it might be, or you have a certain amount you want to donate, but then you get to see, okay, this goes to that. This my money is doing this impact. So I I really appreciate how your site is set up, makes it easy for people to understand and see where their money is going. And yeah, five bucks a month, that's and here's the other thing, too. Like you mentioned, liking animals and liking conservation doesn't go very far. But sharing information, educating others, what an awesome idea it would be if uh after listening to this episode, a few people sign up for the five bucks a month, but then they reach out to friends or family and say, hey, do you want to do this with me? Just five bucks a month. And and the impact, like you said, with the dollar exchange, the amount that five dollars has becomes in other countries is so valuable. So yeah, I just I want to encourage everyone, uh, I'll have it down in the show notes, of course, how to get a hold of you and and how to find the website and everything else because it's so important. And one of the things I learned across my, again, 30 plus years doing this, zoos do a lot of conservation work. They support in a lot of ways, but they're also running a zoo. They're also running a facility that is taking care of animals who are in constant need of financing because they eat all the time and they have vet bills. And there's nothing wrong with that. I absolutely love and adore zoos for the fact that they inspire and excite the next generation to learn more about these animals. But if you're looking to actually really have an impact for conservation, I encourage everyone to find the species you love and find who's doing the boots on the ground work like Global Conservation Force is doing, because that's where the direct impact really happens. And and to your point, what you said earlier, Mike, it's it's getting those individuals out there, getting them to train others to be doing the work they're doing, and it just amplifies it out that way. And so it's it's such a great, great organization. I I do want to transition a little bit, Mike, if that's okay. I want to ask you about your personal experiences. Uh, has there been in this process, whether it's been as animal care or just starting out in the ranger training or to where you are now with all the work you guys are doing, has there been a moment that's stuck with you that's sort of that just oh, I didn't see that coming, but what a whether whether there's a learning opportunity, learning moment, or just a wow moment? Because I mean, you do so much. So I I can imagine there's probably a list to choose from.
SPEAKER_00There have been uh quite a few. Um and I almost would describe it, they come in almost phases of maturity of different projects. So sometimes, like I'll go back to when we started our full canine unit. Um we brought the first high level of a specific kind of Belgian melon, um, Belgian melon law into South Africa. And this is a big deal because what was happening before we brought this lineage in and um had got them all placed in strategic operations for anti-poaching and counter-wildlife trafficking, canine trainers from the US and Europe to be famous or to say that they did it would give anti-poaching or conservation their 10th or 15th pick dog, meaning the military and the police bought the first five, some private people bought the middle gaps, and then the dogs that were, and this is not the dog's fault in any way, uh, to clarify, but the dogs that probably weren't actually suited for work or were not well balanced in their application, a lot of them made their way to conservation sites because conservation doesn't have competitive money against military or police forces. And so it was very frustrating um for me to see dogs that were inappropriately placed or inappropriately managed. And so we got our canines in as well as worked with some uh regional partners uh with some dogs that had good working um genetics. And we could see the difference of night and day. All of a sudden, each one of our canines was like, you know, all the managers on the teams were like, these are the best on our team. Like the arrests are going up, the confiscations are going up. And then you kind of sit back, and that took our team a lot. Like the vets on our team, we use a lot of our animal care crew. A lot of our teams have a lot of animal training experience. And to set Belgian malamois up for working is not just like a regular dog training situation. Right. Um so once all the dogs were placed, you know, this is this is like a span of four years from concept to application. And you look back and you go, gosh, we have 10 operational canines in remote corners of Africa. And the dogs started in the US or some started in Europe, and many of them are the first of what they're doing. And you're like, gosh, that's kind of crazy to think that we're here. Um and to talk back with the team, and the team's like, yeah, it's kind of weird, you know, it's been like the dogs are like showing all their progress reports and all their impacts. And then another one that was similar to that is uh one of the reserves that we partnered with in 2017. Um, they had one of the world's most famous poaching attacks, uh, which is Tandy the Rhino. And we had informally partnered with them on activities prior to 2017, but 2017 was like the real marriage point true partnership. And their manager at the time was saying, we really need to create a real anti-poaching team while the pressure is hitting the Kruger much further north in the country, a 15-hour drive. And we had were already working in the region with several other reserves who said, Yeah, we'll get you guys started. So 2018, we started the range of trainings, and then by 2019, um, they had a team of eight. And now the reserve is you know transitioning uh from like essentially a basic protection to what we would call like a more integrated operational full-scale team. Fast forward at this point from day zero, uh the range the ranger who's now the manager, we've brought him from zero to management, and we've grown an entire community selected team from just outside the reserve, from an entirely COSA selected community. The team is large, has multi-operations in every capacity from tech to drones. We had our mounted unit there for four years. It's got canines, it's got everything else going on. And now the team's fully operational without us, which was the whole goal. So built from scratch, fledged to them in self-operation, and now we step back and just check in and say, hey, how are you guys doing? What do you guys want to do next? Where that was our full-time, full-scale operational management anti-poaching unit. And where they're at now is I have there's multi-generations of young adults who were kids when I first met them and they went through community programs, and now they're rangers, and they're in charge of each other, and they're the mentors, and they're the they're what the young kids in the community are looking forward to. And in that same reserve, as part of this whole arc, the community aspect was important to GC Up. It was it was absolutely mandatory for us. But part of that series in 2021, we were also working on reserve expansion and habitat expansion with them, to which collectively, as a group of partners, everybody got to the landmark uh moments. But one of the key aspects of reintroducing black rhinos there, which had been extinct there for over a hundred years, was a fully community-hired, community-built team. So our guys were this integral piece of a block that got them government approved, and now there's black rhinos reintroduced there, there's cheetahs reintroduced there, and they're part of the Black Rhino range expansion program. And this was all starting from 2017 when you know we decided to make this big arc. And looking back on that, it was a ton of work and it took a lot of time and a lot of team members, but it's so rewarding to fully hand off that full project back to everybody there. And to look back at it now, it's crazy. Uh it's it was there was like you know, originally there wasn't really a Ranger team. It was like two guys patrolling, no formal training. Now, like about eight to ten instructors cycle through with the guys doing advanced trainings every single year, the full team's fully employed, like everything's there. So it's very crazy to look back on that one.
SPEAKER_01I would imagine in all that you are coordinating and doing all the time, and and I know for conservation especially, it's sort of this you always have to plan well in advance for projects you want to see to come to fruition. Hearing you talk about that made me I mean, I'm proud of you. I mean to know because okay, so multiple levels there, what you covered. A, that didn't exist 10, 12 years ago. The the space is now a a safe haven for black rhinos that weren't there for over a hundred years, around a hundred years. Cheetah are there now. And and we know in the animal world, you bring in large species like this and keep the space protected for them, you're bringing in a swath of plants, bugs, insects, birds, reptiles, and other mammals that are going to thrive now because of the protected space. The that's that's the end goal, right? But then you have the investment in the community and the investment from the community because of the work you've done. Where you've got this generation that have been a part of the education cycle, have stepped into being the rangers, and they're now mentoring and exciting the next generation within their own community. And you can step back and it's functioning and doing its work. And you can go in there every now and then maybe help and support. But I mean, how that's gotta feel really good to be able to look back and see that that track, that trail that you you have taken with this, and then being able to look forward and project then other projects and programs that you're in the in the infancy stage of knowing this is the possible outcome. Yeah. Do you ever have time to actually just stop and go back, oh wow, look at what we did? Or is it just always forward, forward, forward?
SPEAKER_00It is a lot of forward, forward, forward. But the last several times that I stopped in with the guys and the whole crew, um, for everybody that knows me, I love practical jokes and trickery and you know, comedy, whatnot. But with the guys now, you know, in the beginning it was a lot of years of like there's a lot of disciplines in anti-poaching that you need to know to be really functional and effective. And so it was like a lot of training. And now I'm at the stage where like the last time I came to say hi, I breached the reserve as a quote poacher without them knowing. And then they had to capture me. And then when they had to capture me and two others, they didn't know that they were gonna be seeing me. They also didn't know when they got to me that I wasn't gonna surrender. So it was hilarious because for the next three days, they're all laughing, going, You're not gonna be staying around for that long, right? Because they're like all worried that I'm gonna do that. But being able to do that safely, there's a there was a lot of safety layers to that. I should think so. Uh especially with live firearms and you know, reserves of rhino and lion and everything. Right. Um, it we gave like there were we had so much fun to sit together as a giant team and with our now partners, because now the they have their own foundation on the reserve and self-funding and all that thing, all that stuff going to sit with the full team and to have trained literally all of them, and to have them be so good to catch me within 45 minutes of getting through a fence line in a giant reserve, which is not easy at all. And they caught me with two dogs, the drone team, and three three equipped teams on the ground. They got me quick. Um was such a fun moment where I was in handcuffs, you know, facing the dirt, laughing when they caught me after, you know, I didn't surrender. And they're all looking at me, shaking their head like, what's the next game? This is crazy. And I'm like laughing. I'm like, you guys did so good, now I've got to up the ante. And then like, oh no. And like that that whole moment of everything, I've I've never I have not stopped talking about it because I've not only am I so proud of how far all of them come, uh, but for me, it really feels like like they're all at my professional colleague level now. Like I would call upon them for all of the activities. Uh, whereas before I would think about how I could bring in more experienced instructors and parties, and now I've used them as instructors and you know, putting them into play in so many different things, and they it it every time I'm with them, it's like a solid reflection of that whole progress and and process. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What a great experience for you, too. I mean, especially because you you know what to expect when you're breaking in. You you know the systems, you know what to look for and get around and 45 minutes and they got you in cuffs. That's that's so awesome. And again, yeah, I can't imagine you knowing you, uh, how much fun that must have been for you. Uh and and also how how cool to again go from like these are the people that that we were working with in training, and now they're the ones I'm going to rely on for training. These are the ones that are showing up doing the the high-end pro stuff. So that's that is awesome. I want to start wrapping it up because we are getting kind of low on time, but I have to ask you, I know the answer to this question, but I want to hear you say it so the audience can better not only understand, but then maybe share your answer with other people. Explain to me why this work is important.
SPEAKER_00So for me, it's we have found the perfect balance of helping communities in need and saving biodiversity with umbrella species efforts. So whether you care about people or you care about animals, it's a win-win. And truly at the same time, where whether you're coming from an animal side or a human side, if we can't rally to protect and save or secure these areas, we're on a train with no brakes to our own extinction because we're not respecting the boundaries of not only nature, but all of the warning errors of our own self-destruction with how we manage resources, ourselves, people in greed, corporations, all those things, or people with power abusing, people without those to protect themselves or defend themselves. And that can be through money, corruption, greed, you know, various things. And conservation is very much now a leveling playing field to bring back stability, not only for people in each region, uh, where these issues are really kind of hot, but to rebalance our global environment pattern of everything going on. And realistically, we as a you know species on this planet, we are drastically using more resources than we can truly sustain. And conservation metrics help us come back into balance. Um, so for me, protecting and securing biodiversity is also saving people, but also the future of people. And the balance is really quite amazing when you see it, because it is possible and we do see it. And that means, you know, people living well and wildlife having their space and things working well.
SPEAKER_01Nice, nice. Well, that very well said, and and I agree. I had an interview earlier where the the statement that stuck with me is like of all the species on the planet right now that need the most help, it's humans. Yes. And and it stuck with me because it's not only like, you know, yeah, we have all sorts of challenges as it is, but but we're so interconnected to our wildlife. And uh, you know, global conservation force, the things we talked about today really show too how interconnected everything is and how supporting one supports the other, as supporting wildlife and and habitat supports people and vice versa. So, Mike, thank you very much for your time today. I do not doubt I will have you on again because I know there's so much you guys do across the year. I want to keep our audience updated on the work you're doing and hear about things as they move forward. Uh, but I think we'll wrap it up there today. So again, thank you so very much, Mike. I appreciate your time.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for having me on, and I will happily jump on anytime you have me.
SPEAKER_01All right. Take care, man.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, Rick.
SPEAKER_01And of course, thank you, dear listeners. I appreciate you being here so very much. And I want to use this time as we we sort of roll out of this episode to talk a little bit more about some of the details around rhinos and rhino poaching and rhino conservation. What Mike does, what Global Conservation Forest does, is so important. It is that boots on the ground. We talked a lot with Mike about the Rangers. You know, obviously he's got some great stories, having seen these rangers come up and being trained now, being trainers, and how it's grown over the years for the work he does. But there's another element we didn't talk as much about that the Global Conservation Forest does. It's also very important. That's the education side of things. They're raising awareness, not just what's happening, but but why you don't need to buy rhino products. And of course, Global Conservation Forest does work with a wide variety of other species in addition to the rhinos. But Mike's heart is with the rhinos, I know, because he's he's worked with them as a wildlife care specialist and zookeeper. But also just a lot of the work he does there in South Africa is based on that. They work in other parts. Again, I encourage you to go to their website. All the links are in the show notes below for that. But you can learn more then about the work that they do and the work the Global Conservation Forest does. But specifically talking about rhinos, the work I have done over the years has been quite a bit with conservation for, especially tusks and rhino horn, because that creates the demand for those items, those trinkets, those medicinal ideas creates a demand for this poaching, also bad economic strife for people that find themselves in a place where they'll do whatever they can to put some food on the table. They will take these jobs to do poaching work or do some of the transport or whatever it might be. It's not just something as simple as someone going, I want a rhino horn. They go out and they shoot it and they take it home with them. It is a syndicate. There is a whole giant thing. In fact, I think it was said about 10 years ago, wildlife trafficking is right up there with uh drug trafficking. It is like the third largest black market industry out there. So a big component of what Global Conservation Force does in other organizations is that education side, reminding people that it's just rhino horn. It's not a medicinal magical thing. It's not something that's gonna bring you good luck. It's not a charm, it's not uh something that you can make a chalice out of and drink from. It's gonna empower you. It's not a medicine you can take. And I was reading up on this too before this episode. It ends up what the largest part now uh of why people want rhino horn is for decorative items in the home and jewelry, which blows my mind. But okay. Uh but uh when I was really doing a lot of this work 10, 15 years ago, uh it was more for the medicinal side. People were taking this thinking it was going to be some sort of medicine. And as the education grew, showing people, telling people, like, look, rhino horn is just made of keratin, the same protein as your hair and fingernails, it's not there's nothing special about it. That awareness, that education must have worked because when you look at the main reason for demand now, it's for decorative items, it's for things in the around the home, it's for jewelry, not as much for medicinal reasons. So we the education works, but we now need to tackle that side of it too. And I think it's important we remind ourselves when we travel or when we go to these shops with curiosities, something that might look like a simple little charm on a necklace or a little carving for a ring or a bracelet or something to put on your desk or your shelf, make sure you know where it's from. What is it and and why is it there? And do you really need it? That's the other side of it as well. I want to get into what I found also for the International Union of Crystal International Union for Conservation of Nature, also known as IUCN. You'll hear myself or others often talk about the listing on IUCN. This is basically an international union that comes together every, I think it's four or five years. I might be wrong on that, to discuss and look at data of populations, trends, etc. of these different animals, all the way from honestly plants, amphibians, reptiles, mammals, everything. I looked this up and I'm gonna actually read it directly from the website. As of right now, the white rhino is listed as near threatened. I believe these numbers are about two years old, so there could be some variants in here, what might be published elsewhere, but per the IUCN, currently 15,700 and a few extras of the white rhino. Now, this is the southern white rhino because the northern white rhino, we know there's only two females left of that entire species. So uh that's that's unfortunate. And uh the other thing I did notice too, as looking up the numbers, the overall trend from 2021 is there is less rhino poaching across the last four or five years. Uh again, these numbers are are from I think 2025 when we're looking at those. However, from 2024 to 2025, we saw an increase in poaching. So it depends on what numbers you look at and where you are. The the big thing, though, that we want to remind ourselves of what we can do as everyday citizens listening is talk about this, talk about the fact that these items that come from animals aren't needed. We don't need to purchase this. We need to disrupt the demand. And of course, it's a big cultural shift and there's other issues to consider. But the truth is it works because obviously now the demand is not for medicinal purposes, it's more for decorative reasons. So get these numbers out there, talk to people about it. The the greater one-horn rhino, this is a species found in India and Asia. There's 4,075 roughly left, and they're considered vulnerable. Uh it's interesting though, when you look at the black rhino with 6,700 and some change, they're listed as critically endangered. So why do they have more? But they're listed as critically endangered versus vulnerable. These listings often have to do with the viability, not just the actual number in the population. Are they able to breed? Are they able to roam territory safely? Are they in habitats that can keep and sustain them? So there's other things that are looked at when we look at the population of the crater one-horn rhino at just over 4,000 listed as vulnerable, versus the black rhino, uh almost 7,000, so 6,700 listed as critically endangered. And again, these numbers, there's some variance, and I believe these numbers come from a couple years ago. Here's where it gets really hard, guys. Critically endangered, 50 left of the uh the Javan Rhino, and the Sumatra Rhino, even less, anywhere from 34 to 47. Both critically endangered, both have dropped dramatically. Last time I looked these numbers up, they were both in the hundreds. Uh and to see them now below 100, it's just heartbreaking. And again, it it the the listing, the numbers dropping, it has to do with location and uh how it's it's just so much. There's so much going on that influences this. What Global Conservation Force does has a massive impact. The the boots on the ground, the rangers, the the education, the reaching out to communities, supporting communities, giving jobs to communities in those spaces. The other side of it too is talking to lawmakers and having laws in the books. However, like anything that can draw a lot of money, I'll say this as delicately as possible, there can be crooked politicians. Oh, is that not delicate? Sorry. There can be a lot of things that influence then how are the laws enforced, if the laws are enforced, who is subverting the law and how they're doing it. So it is multifaceted. This is not a simple stop the poachers on the ground. This is not a simple just to create an educational program. It is all sorts of stuff. It is a matter of contacting your local people too. Did you know here in the U.S. we are, I think it's the second or third largest market for illegal wildlife trafficking? So uh yeah. If you're listening here in the US or Canada, anywhere in North America, we are just as much part of the problem as these what seem like faraway countries. So talk to people, have conversations, discuss this, write a letter, email, call your representatives, etc. These things are important. And it is all tied to everything we see going on in the world today, where there's this big gap between those who have power and those who don't, and how that influences how things happen. So it is worth not only supporting global conservation force, it is worth also recognizing you have power to make changes as well. And as much as those numbers can be hard to hear and makes it almost feel like, oh my goodness, what what what can possibly shift this? Across the years of me doing wildlife education and talking to people about animals, it has been an ongoing ebb and flow as things face particular challenges, big drops in numbers happen, or then things come back. Uh, I want to leave you with this moment of hope for for lack of a better term, in the sense that I think sometimes hope gets a bad rap. Hope sometimes is like that fleeting wish that's the last thing we grasp onto when there's not much left. I would argue that there is more to it than that. Uh there are people like a global conservation force, like Mike and everyone he works with, and not just in Global Conservation Force proper, but then the people they work with in Africa and Asia and everywhere else. There are people that volunteer, there are people like yourself that care and want to learn more. We are there. We are all there, we're all doing something. We're all interested in making a difference. We're all seeing the reality that we are all interconnected and it is all tied together. So instead of shaming and blaming people, I like to offer up the opportunity where we can make a positive impact by keep moving forward, doing what we can with where we are, with what we have. So again, it's having conversations with other people. It's reaching out to our representatives, it's donating that $5 and seeing if you can rally a few other people to donate $5 as well. And maybe Global Conservation Force isn't your thing, and that's absolutely fine. Maybe it's cheetahs, like we talked to Jana earlier in the in the uh season. Whatever it is, it's gonna help, it's gonna make a difference. And I want you to know you you make a difference too. Every little bit helps. And that's again, it goes back into why I'm doing this podcast. I really believe that bringing people together to share their stories, what they're doing, how nature has impacted them, or how they're impacting nature and wildlife and animals and people, us is so important. So, with that, I'm gonna start wrapping this up. You can find all of the information to get a hold of Micro Global Conservation Forest down in the show notes of this episode. Whether you're watching on YouTube or you're listening somewhere on your podcast player, those links should be down there. Of course, you can reach out to me, Zoology Rick, on most every social platform. Those links are down below as well, along with my website, zoologyrick.com. All pretty easy and straightforward. I'll wrap it up. Uh we've been rambling on long enough. I appreciate you guys being here. If you aren't already, make sure you subscribe so you don't miss our next upcoming episodes, new episodes every Thursday. We have some bonus episodes starting to come out later this month. Currently, if this is episodes coming out in February, if you're listening after February, those bonus episodes bonus episodes should already be out. Wow. Obviously, I'm done talking. So with that, I will wrap it up. Have a good one, everybody.
