E18 My Wife Didn’t Orgasm for 25 Years of Our Marriage

For the first twenty five years of our marriage, Tonya had never experienced an orgasm during sex. She thought her body was broken. She believed some women could and some women simply could not.

The truth is far more common and far more complicated.

Research shows about 95% of men orgasm during sex while only around 65% of women do. Roughly one in three women struggle to orgasm regularly and only about 18% orgasm reliably from penetration alone.

In this episode of Undressed Conversations we talk openly about the silence phase, the conditioning phase, the discovery phase, the breakthrough, and what actually changed everything for us. We discuss body insecurity, religious messaging around sexuality, communication in long term relationships, nervous system safety, and why orgasm is often more psychological than mechanical.

If you have ever wondered why sex can feel effortless for some couples and frustrating for others, this conversation might change how you think about intimacy.

⭐ About Undressed Conversations

We’re Mark and Tonya, high school sweethearts married for 30 years. After decades of trying to fit into roles that weren't ours, we finally dropped the masks and started telling the truth about marriage, intimacy, shame, healing, and what it actually takes to stay connected for life. Our goal is simple, to help couples build relationships that feel alive again.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I didn't have an orgasm for the first 25 years of our marriage.

SPEAKER_01 0:05

That's like 25, guys. 25 years.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

And I thought my body was broken. I thought I was wired where I couldn't have one. I thought that some women get them and some women don't.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

You're not alone. In heterosexual relationships, about 95% of men usually orgasm. For women, that number drops to around 65%. And in casual sex, it falls closer to 40%. Roughly one in three women report ongoing difficulty reaching orgasm.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Which means millions of women are having sex and they're not finishing. About 10 to 15% of all women say they've never had an orgasm at all.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Around 70 to 80 percent of women need direct clitoral stimulation to orgasm. Only about 18% reliably orgasm from penetration alone.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

18%. Yet so many of us were taught penetration was the whole story. Especially if you grew up religious, especially if you were taught that your body was dangerous or shameful or something to control.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Research shows women raised in high-control religious environments report more sexual guilt and more sexual dysfunction. Add antidepressants into the mix, which can blunt orgasms in up to 70% of users. And you've got a perfect storm for disaster.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

For me, it was body insecurity. It was inexperience. It was the religious message that we had over all those years. And it was the fact that I didn't masturbate until well after we were married. I had no clue how to guide someone else to do it for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

And listen here, when you combine shame, pressure, and performance anxiety, you get a body that locks up instead of opens up.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Mm-hmm. But here's one thing that we discovered. It's possible, it's trainable, it's unlockable, and it's not about being freaky enough. The one thing that it's about is feeling safe.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

You see, orgasm usually isn't a technical problem, it's more of a nervous system problem. And let's not forget the biggest nervous system part in our bodies is our brain.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Today we're going to talk about why some women don't orgasm for decades, what actually changes it, and what most couples are actually doing wrong.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Phase one. The silence phase.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

You thought you were broken. You normalized it. You assumed this is just how it is.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

So this is the point where we just don't talk about it. Right? Like we're we just just assume that everything's fine and just live in this fantasy land that I'm just never gonna have one.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

And on my side, I'm looking at it like, well, I mean, I finished. It was easy for me.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Literally, that's what I'm thinking. It was easy for me. I don't know what the issue is.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Hmm. Well, and that's the difference, is because women, I believe, are more they're more mental. You know, men men are more physiological and physical.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Well, I remember the first time it took zero time.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

And that's the problem. For men it's zero time, and for women, it's lots of time.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Lots of time. Well, and the the silence phase is where you either you're ashamed of the fact that you can't have an orgasm, or that you're frustrated because you can't have one, or you just assume that you're broken, or I've heard a lot of stories about women that are just like me, so it's I'm not weird.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

It's just normal for people to not be able to do this.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Some can have them, some can't. I guess I'm the one that can't, and that's what I thought.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Yeah, forever. You were like, oh, I'm just one of the people that can't.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

And you don't realize the people that can't just haven't learned how to. It's not that they can't, it's that they haven't unlocked the secrets and all the they haven't spoken about it enough, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

They haven't taught their partner the right ways, or the partner's not listening to the right ways. There's a communication breakdown somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Oh, the communication's huge. But and you know what? When you're silent about it, huh. You're never gonna communicate and you're never gonna figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

What did we say? I I used to tell you this all the time. You know what? You miss a hundred percent of the shots you don't take, and I'm not a big sports fan, but it's true. It's true. Whether you ask the girl out or don't ask the girl out, whether or not you ask for what you want or don't ask for what you want, the only thing you have to lose is your own happiness.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

You can be happy, but you're gonna have to vocalize what makes you happy.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

You can't sit there and expect your partner to stumble on it someday and just magically discover this thing, and especially if they discover it and you don't say anything about liking it.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Yeah.

unknown 4:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

How are you ever gonna unlock that? Because if they do magically stumble upon this mystical entrance and they they're like, oh wow, this is the this is like the days of old. And I've stumbled, and I feel like there's treasures behind this door, and it's the I remember this in Looney Tunes, it was the open sesame, and it's funny you'd show up and you had to have the right code word. But if they say the right code word and you don't let them know that that was it, like if they do the thing and you don't say that was special tonight, like what what happened today or let's revisit that during that event was special and it made me tingle in a way that I've never tingled before. Right, you're never gonna unlock it.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

No, you're never gonna Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

So the silence phase is all about not talking. Even if I stumbled on something you liked, did we talk about it? We didn't. No, we didn't talk about it at all. Well we did, and we stumbled upon those things, yeah. But we did it in such a way that we never ever talked about it because there was too much shame. You were like I'm I'm afraid to let him know that I like that. And I was ashamed because it was something new, and I was like, she never said anything else about it, so I must have really upset.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

She must have hated it.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

She must have hated it.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

In fact, I was like, please do that more, but I was afraid to ask for it.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

So many things you were afraid to ask for because of guilt.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Because of guilt and shame and it's like, well, I was told I shouldn't like this. Well, and it's taboo and it's you know, it's kinky and it's like not the not the normal.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

So in those early days when you weren't self-satisfying, masturbating, what were some things that you held back on because of embarrassment?

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Everything.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Like because I remember back in those days, and I remember a whole lot of we would fight about keeping the lights on or turning them off. I wanted them on, you wanted them off.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Yeah. I always wanted them off because I was very insecure about my body, and I hated the light being on because I'm like, he's going to see me.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

But the problem was is I was trying to see you, and I wanted to see you because that turned me on and that got me going because you didn't realize that I still loved the same woman.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

And you're very visual.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

And because I like that visual stimulation, I loved watching everything about you. It didn't matter what you were doing. You could be doing anything.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

And I was gonna love it.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Well, and I did myself a huge disservice by not practicing self-satisfaction until after we were married. And even then, I don't think I was even doing it that often.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

I remember back in the early 2000s when we had before we had kids. I think you were pretty wild. I think you did a lot more of that and you really started to discover who you were sexually.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

And part of that was because I did get a book. I got um it was about finding your orgasm.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Because you thought you were broken even.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Because I thought I was a broken, yes. And this was when I was in my early 20s.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Even as an 18-year-old girl, you're taught that well, if you can't do this, it's it's not a big deal. It happens to a lot of people, don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

And so you're like, well, I kind of want to worry about it. Well, I can't, but I feel like I should be able to.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Yeah. And that's one of the huge things the society has failed us on, is that we shame everybody for their sexuality, and we don't embrace the fact that people need to explore themselves and they need to explore with other partners. And that's just part of our human nature. And by us not doing that, it we're all we're doing is hurting ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

And I think that really brings us into the second chapter, which is going to be the conditioning phase. It's all the things that we drag with us. What it is, is it's the religious messaging, the body insecurity. It's back in the early days, you remember the alcohol-fueled sex. I remember there was one specific instance. It's pressure, it's performance on my on my behalf. I remember being so nervous to have sex with you for the first time because I was like, she's gonna be very disappointed. She is gonna be so disappointed in what I'm able to deliver because I remember the first time I had sex ever. And I was Flash Gordon. If I was there, you didn't know it.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

But here's the deal: I had no idea what it was even about or what I should expect.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

So and then here I have all these problems because I'm having problems because I can orgasm too easy, and that gives us the orgasm gap because you can't orgasm at all. I had been sexually active with myself since age 12. Yeah, probably, and had no problems, and then there's all the misinformation about penetration, like it's all about penetration, and so this creates all this conditioning that we've come to expect, and we think all these things, and we get into it, and none of it's true.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

We forget about the little man in the canoe.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

We do, we forget about the yeah, we've yeah. I mean he's huge. The little man in the canoe played a role in our lives for a very long time, but it was because that was the only button we knew how to push. It's the only we had all these buttons that we just didn't have enough information about because nobody gave instruction. Yeah, the only thing anybody said anything about was this man in the canoe, and so we did chase down the man in the canoe.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

We figured out what that was, and that's what the book the book taught me how to find that button, and I did find that because we didn't even know that. No, I had no idea.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

We went into all of this, no clue not having any idea, but I had no idea how to please you because we have different parts, we're wired differently slightly.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

Exactly, and not only that, but the time it takes to get to arousal is totally different, totally, completely different. Yeah, and we have no clue.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

I'm aroused just because you walked in the room and you're like, you're gonna have to do a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

Yeah, I'm like, okay, I'm I'm interested, but I'm not like dripping yet. Like, you gotta you gotta do a little bit more to get me there.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

But we get married and we have all this. The only thing we got when we got married was we got a little bit of like counseling, if you can, from somebody that had no counseling experience. Yeah, it was somebody that was just a religious leader, and so we get this counseling that says, Oh, you need to learn how to love each other, but they didn't talk anything about sex. Nobody ever that is my biggest bitch of all is that nobody talks about sex, and that is one of the biggest driving factors in marriage, period. Yeah, they'll talk to you a little bit about money. Never will they talk to you anything about how to match you know, match needs, match desires, because it's something that religion was not built to handle. No, they can't handle the truth almost literally.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Yeah. Well, okay, so we're talking about the conditioning and and everything that's that's that's causing us to have some issues, but what about let's talk about the discovery phase? This is the funnest one. The funnest phase, right? Is where we're discovering each other, we're doing some solo experimentation, we're playing with toys. Um one huge thing that women are talking about now is pelvic floor awareness, which is huge.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Um done some of this.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Mm-hmm. Um, there's all the communication that we have with each other, and there's those things that we do to unlock each other mentally. So let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

So the discovery phase, what was that for you? Tell me what your discovery phase looked like and when you hit that in life. Or was there multiple?

SPEAKER_00 11:59

My major discovery phase was when on our honeymoon we did get a vibrator. That was the first one that we bought.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

The first big sky books and billings, is that where we got that?

SPEAKER_00 12:09

No, we got it in Cheyenne.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Oh, yeah, because Honeymoon, yes. We did the honeymoon the night after in billings, but then we went to Cheyenne for Frontiers.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Yeah, we might have bought something, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

But um I remember going to the laundry shore on LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

That is where I got the book. I got the book in Cheyenne, I got the vibrator, and we got the DVD or the CD or the VHS tape.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Yeah, the one about Grandma's Wingback Chair. Wingback chair. Yeah, and so we had that, and that was like our little kit. It's our little love kit.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

So my my self-exploration. So I want to say my self-exploration phase started shortly after that. After we got right, like right after we got married. Because you and I were talking about it, and you're like, okay, well.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Yeah, I think we had a conversation. You're like, I don't know if I've ever done that.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

And I said, I don't think I've ever had an orgasm before. And you're like, Are you sure? I'm like, well, I don't know. I said, I don't think so. I'm I had no idea. I'm like, it feels good.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

You kind of trust me, you know.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

You know.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

You do know.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Like little boys in gym class that like to climb the ropes or you know, they're really good at climbing poles. I didn't realize until much later in life that that was basically my first orgasm of just being really good at climbing stuff in gym class and on the playground.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

So once once I had the book and I started reading through things and exploring my own body and like looking at my own body in the mirror and feeling my own body, like figuring out what is down there, you know. Then I was like, oh. And then I had my first one through self-stimulation.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Was it with me or with I think it was on my own. Yeah. Oh my god, on your own. I wouldn't be surprised.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

Yeah, it was on my own. And I was like, that was different. I should have. Yeah, I've never had that before. Like, that was new. I'm like, okay. I have not had that before, and I have not had that with sex. Ever.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Huh.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

So you started discovering, but then you were like, oh, I can only have it from the outside. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

I didn't even know you could have it from the inside.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Okay, I feel like I'm doing better than most people because at least there's an external orgasm that I can have.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Well, and the thing is, is like you hear people talking about how they come with sex, and you're like, huh. Wonder how that happens. Because it never happened to me before, ever. So I just thought I couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

So we're on our honeymoon, and we get the toys, and we get the video, and we start exploring a little bit, kind of the erotica of like in the early days. And then I think the next step for me that I remember is that you know, we moved from that, and even on the way home, our car broke down, and then we stopped at a hotel, and then that hotel they had the sauna, and so we took some liberties in the sauna. We did, and we had some hot sex in the sauna. Like 19 years old, and we're like, we kind of like this.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

But I didn't orgasm in the sauna.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

No, you didn't, but it was super hot. But it was hot, it was super hot.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Yeah, we definitely had the thrill.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

I was still struggling through the point of my life where it was so hot because it was so new that everything was a problem. Yeah, yeah. Like back in the day, I think condoms were a necessity just for keeping things moving. Through stimulation, overly stimulated, and so then we go from the discovery phase and we realize that you can have external orgasms, and I realize I've always spent on half orgasms. I've never struggled in that department. That's good. But we get into the next chapter, and the next chapter is really the breakthrough phase. It's what unlocked the rest of it because you realized that it wasn't just external that you could orgasm from, it was also internal, and it was no penetration, nothing on your genitalist at all. There was so much more. So tell us a little bit about your breakthrough phase.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Oh, okay. Well, we have to fast forward to my mid-40s. So, you know, we have a good history of us together, a good good sex life together, but um, nothing had happened until probably what was I 40 43, 44? It was like four years ago.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Dude, it was it was 45. I'm I'm embarrassed to even say how long it took you to actually climax from internal stimulation. But at the same time, I realize there's a lot of women and a lot of men that still haven't figured this out. So I'm not I'm in good company.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

But I felt like I I was doing a poor job. And I want to say to the guys out there, it's not 100% your fault. If they don't know how to make themselves do that from their own stimulation, they can't teach you.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

So you have to you have to work with them to help them explore that. But it comes down to that first thing we talked about, and that's really that communication. If something happens that you like, you have to be like, ooh, I like that. We have played a lot of how does this feel? How does this feel?

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Yeah. Which is better, this or this?

SPEAKER_01 17:06

This or this with insertion. It's like, does it feel better if I rub here or rub here on the inside? And you're like, that does nothing for me. That does a lot for me.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Which motion feels better, you know, like short and fast or long and slow? Or I mean, like, it's is it pressure?

SPEAKER_01 17:21

Sometimes it's more pressure and it's just slow grinding, and sometimes it's more force. It's like, I just want to hear, I wanna I'm gonna feel like I'm getting a rocked into next week. That's that's it. You know, sometimes it's that, sometimes it's you assisting.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

And these are all things that we've unlocked in the last five to six years, and we can't believe that it's taken us this long to learn this, but it's because there was no communication around it.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

I think the the number one thing that got me to that point was communication. I think age might have had something to do with it. I know I do hear about women later in life, like the whole perimetopause area, where things do sometimes change with the hormones and makes it a little bit easier for them.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Yeah, I think what changes is you just don't give a fuck. And you're like, you know what? I just want to be happy. I'm tired of caring what everybody told me was good, and I haven't had an orgasm in 45 years, and everybody tells me I should have one. Maybe I should try some new stuff and just get out there and get my fucking freak on.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Well, but let's be honest. The main thing is you have to feel safe with your partner, and I have always felt safe with you, but like I haven't felt safe in my own skin where I haven't felt a hundred percent confident with myself. My self-esteem wasn't there, my self- my body image wasn't there, I didn't feel sexy. And once I broke down those barriers and felt completely safe with myself, with you, to let myself be myself with you, I think that's part of what unlocked it.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Because it wasn't what the first thing, I know what the first thing was. The first thing was is for us to communicate. You know, if we want to talk about the breakthrough phrase, it was us communicating first, it was us talking about what we liked, it was us about having open conversations and not belittling each other for what they did or didn't like. Yeah, just being like, huh, that's interesting. You know? I mean, there was no weird, you know, consent is always important and maturity is always important. We're not saying anything about that, but it was knowing that you know it's all safe, and just because there's a fantasy, it doesn't have to be acted upon.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Absolutely. And sometimes just talking about it is enough.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Sometimes fantasies turn into reality and sometimes they just stay in the box.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

You know, so we started talking about those things, we started normalizing sex talk in our marriage, you know. We could talk about anuses and penises and vaginas, and we didn't giggle and laugh every time. We're like, well, do you like when I touch here? Do you like when I touch here? Do you not like this? Does it be a little bit more?

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Let me just take a look here.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

If I touch more of this, what does it make you feel? What do you want more of? It's so much more that then we started working into chapter five, which is really our integration phase. And that's when we started integrating the how I feel, how I desire everything, because what we didn't want is just the same old repetition. We'd had that. You know, we started developing code words around sex. We did, we started just making it more fun, yeah. Making it fun, like and things that you know, hey, if we've gone too far, this is the code word. Or if we're if we're all in, this is the code word. If we're all out, this is the code word. We have things that we say.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

And we started slowing down.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Well, and uh the the the thing that we'd hear a lot lately is about nervous system regulation, and that's huge. I don't think people quite understand what that means. Is it can you explain that in an easy way?

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Man, for for me, it's I have modes that I go through, and there's business mode, there's do this mode, and then there's sex mode, and then there's be a good husband, there's provider mode, there's problem solver mode. And anytime we go from switching one mode to another mode, it's gonna take it, it's gonna take time. Like we can go from husband provider mode to sexual deviant mode, but we're gonna need a little bit of a switch time. Like there has to be some sort of a transition time for me. I can't just go from I've fought the world all day to yeah, I'm ready to just get it on. It doesn't work that way. I need transition time.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

You know, so slowing that down, waiting for those transition times, giving me time, letting my nervous system regulate to the new task that I'm getting ready to go do. Because the one that wanted me to kill the world just a second ago isn't the same one that I want to bring to the bedroom.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

Yeah. Well, and I think I think for me it's just kind of it's it's it's learning what makes you tick and how you tick and w the the the things you need to do to get you there. I think it that that's what it means to me. So I don't I don't know if that m makes sense or not. But um but yeah, the the integration is is a huge part because number one, it's repetition.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Because once it's repetition in the right ways, in the right way, but repetition is the same thing. It's repetition of asking the question and communicating.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

And once you because once you once I figured out what made me tick and what got me there, it was easy to duplicate. It was like, no, this is what we need to do. And because you and I were talking so much, I'm like, no, we need to do this again, this again, and then sure enough.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

There was times that I would do something and you were like, that really felt different. We need to explore more down that path. And so we would. Yeah. And that would lead to the next unlock and the next unlocked where we finally got to where it wasn't just external t stimulation on genitals, it was internal, it was everything, it was just simple touch, it was talk, it was how I talk to you, how I treated you, how I touched you in other manners, whether it be soft, hard, everything becomes stimulation when you know what turns your partner on. But you have to learn all that stuff. And I think this is a great place to say that that yes, no, maybe quiz. Yes, the yes no maybe quiz would be a great place to try and discover these things that will help unlock what your partner really gets turned on by.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

Absolutely. Yeah. Well, uh by knowing what makes your partner tick and what turns them on, it will help you uh just have a really, really, really, really successful sex life with them.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Yeah, trying to match the energy. You know, if they have energy, bring it. You know, what we found is it's always the mismatch. And what we found is that mismatch usually means that there's stress in your life, other places, or there's insecurities. A lot of times our mismatch was insecurities.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

A lot I think that was uh probably 90% of mine was my only thing.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Yours was insecurities, mine was external stress that led me to not feel sexy or desirable, and so I wasn't interested in you know really approaching you. Is it because I'm just like I've been fighting the bears all day long. I'm tired of it, I just want to go to sleep, and you're like, But I want to be your princess. Please and it's hard to switch those gears, and I can't I couldn't do it. But once I realized that that actually helped me calm down the side of my mind that just wanted to go ballistic on everything, all my problems. Yeah, you know, so we were moving from basically effort to ease. What used to take a lot of effort became easy because we practice it, we work those muscles, we talked about things. And the times now when we have an imbalance, because they're not it's not that we are always in sync. No, we had one last week where we were definitely not in sync and you wanted to connect, and I was just like, nope, not today. This isn't happening, we're not doing this. It's not like we didn't connect at all, but you read that as rejection. It didn't matter that it had only been 12 hours maybe since we had connected. Yeah, it mattered the fact that you felt rejected even though everything around it said that you were still fine. Yeah, you were still getting more attention than 98% of America and still feeling rejected even at that point.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

So that was an insecurity at your I still I still fight it, I still have it. You know, we we are who we are, and we will always be who we are. I mean, okay, we are who we are, and we can't change some personality traits about ourselves, but we can bring awareness to it, and that's what we've been doing, is where before it used to be a big deal, and now it's like, okay, I'm being stupid, you're right, and you call me out on it, and then I'm like, okay, and then we're quick to get over it.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

But now, what I want to say is we're going to get to some Reddit stories of people that have been much like you and have really struggled to reach climax. Typically women.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

I think typically it's women.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

They're all women. Yeah, these are all women.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

And we'll do that at the end. We'll cover some Reddit stories, but we wouldn't want to leave you without the big truth. And this is the chapter of the big truth. Because the reality of this situation is it wasn't about technique. It was at all. It was not about technique at all.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

No.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

It was about how we felt.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

That there's a small truth to technique. Very small.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

But only because you don't allow the practice.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Once you practice, you realize that it becomes more, it was never about technique, it was more about shame. It was about the guilt that you had because everybody, your entire life up until that point. What were we told from the time we were born until the time we finally got married? Is everything around sex is evil, don't do it, stay away from it, it's totally terrible.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

And then all of a sudden, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Okay, we sign a piece of paper at a courthouse, and all of a sudden now it's okay. Have fun. You have no idea what you're doing. Here's your license. Here's your license to finally have sex. Good luck. You have received zero training whatsoever.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Just gonna throw you in there to the wolves. Yeah. Well, so you remove the shame, you allow yourself to feel safe, and then I think the biggest one is retraining your body to accept pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

And you have to feel safe before you can receive that pleasure. You have to have trust with your partner before you can feel that.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

And a lot of women have to have love.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Like there's people that say you can do it, you can go out and do the one-night stand, but I think it's a lot easier when you have that emotional connection. I think there is absolutely something to that. That's why we don't swing like crazy, is because we really want connection. We have always been connection driven, we have always liked each other's connection, we've always enjoyed that. And if it doesn't bring that same energy, it's not good for us.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

You know? So let's go to Reddit. You have some Reddit stories, and I really want to talk about some of the other problems that people have experienced because this is not something that just you waited 25 years to experience. There's lots of other women out there in the same boat, and we found some good stories, and I want to talk about those. This is an R slash uh R forward slash ask women. It's women who did not orgasm for the first time until their mid-20s or later. What finally did it for you? That's the question.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Mid-20s or later.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

And you were mid-40s.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

I was mid-40s.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Early to mid-40s. Yes. Maybe even mid-40s. I'm gonna say early, early 40s.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

We'll go there. We'll give me a little credit because this is embarrassing enough.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

But it's not you, it's not your fault.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

So, what did you find?

SPEAKER_00 28:49

So, um, there was one gal that said, Um, I believe my body just was not capable of orgasming me with a partner. That was until I met someone who made me feel completely safe. So she was one that brought up that huge word, safe. So once she was able to feel safe and secure and loved and trusted and all that stuff, you just it's almost like you let your guard down and you let yourself melt into them and give the you you give yourself to them a hundred percent, and that allows your brain and your body to connect, and that's I think what allows that orgasm to happen.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

Here's what somebody said uh I found somebody who loves and cares about me. Truly, my body responds differently to those feelings.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Um, I have another gal that says, it turns out you can't orgasm if your pelvic floor is constantly clenched. We were talking about that pelvic floor therapy, and I think a lot of women underestimate the power of the pelvic floor.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

So there's there's the thing that goes around with all the guys, and it's like if they've had babies or they've had too much sex or they've been too experienced that somehow it's loosening up. No. Babies, what can happen is is pelvic floors can loosen the muscles, just get a little bit weaker from all that all that work, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

But the reality is that nothing changes sizes, it's only about intensity. And what we've learned is that more we work on your pelvic floor and contraction, I can feel that. I can feel all of that. And when we talk about that and we talk about what we can each feel, you can feel a lot more than I realized you can feel, and I can feel more than you realized I could. You're like, oh, you can tell when I do that. And I'm like, yes, I can.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

And again, that's that communication where you're talking to me and you're coaching me, and it's just another thing that brings that level.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

I had no idea that you could tell when I reached climax. I had no idea that you could sense that, feel that inside, and you can, and now we use that to our advantage.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

We do.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

A lot of people don't talk about it because there's a lot of shame. But when you tell your partner what's about to happen or what's coming, and you coach them through that, like when you tell me, like, I'm about to, I need this, I need this, and I'm like, Oh, I'm a little people pleased, and I'm like, Got you, friend.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

And it works out for my advantage.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

That's absolutely yeah. Why would you not want to talk and tell your partner what you need to get you there?

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

Um, this person says being sexually attracted to the guy is number one, being very, very turned on, number two, he was very good in bed as well, mood, tempo, and looks. And then me being more sexually confident, it was like the perfect setting. We weren't meant to be, but it just comes to show it's possible and it's out there. The confidence is huge. Yeah, confidence. You have to believe like if you can't have sex with the lights on, yeah, I can't believe we spent so many years doing that because of lack of confidence.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

The confidence was one of the things I believe that got me there is because I finally let my guard down and just let myself enjoy my body and I appreciated my body, and it just let me open up too.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

This makes me laugh.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

What'd you find?

SPEAKER_01 32:05

It does leaving the Mormon church and research.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Yeah. That that is and not just the Mormon church, but purity culture.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

Purity culture.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Purity culture is we're not gonna get into that, but it definitely no, I mean that's like a whole episode in of itself.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

It's not because um I don't want to, because I'm afraid to.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

It's because we can get on a couple soapboxes.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah, it's it's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

Yeah. Yeah. So um, um, I had that another gal, she's like, practice, practice, practice, your body learns. And I believe that that is 100% true. Practice, practice, practice. Like, that's what we did.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

I told you, and I don't You were always even worried to help me like come in and assist. Like, sometimes you need just an assist, like you're up for layup, but you need somebody to just slam it in, like, I'm gonna bounce it off the backboard, you're gonna dunk it down the net. Like, that's what you need. Like, I was 90% there, and if you'd just lent a hand a couple times, we could have had you there so much sooner and so much faster.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Yep, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Like, lend that hand, be be your be your roommate's buddy.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Yeah, wingman.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

You've gotta have you gotta have a good wingman.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

I think that's yeah. What other comments do we have on that? I whatever there was some there was some very detailed.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

This, I mean, if anybody's interested, we can always post this thread. It's really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

Yeah, if you feel like if you feel like you're alone, you're not. The point is you're not.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

Now here's one. I I it's kind of it says, I dabbled with masturbation since puberty and had I'd been through three boyfriends, even multiple different vibrators, dildos by the time my first orgasm. No sexual shame, no hang-ups. I think my anatomy is just on orgasm hard mode. At one point, I scoured the internet and literally read every post on Reddit with the words first orgasm to figure it out. Satisfier Pro 2, when I was 24, finally did it for me. Air pulse vibrators on a totally different level than standard vibrators. Not the first time I tried though. It worked when I had taken a huge edible, basically, got high out of my mind and decided to enjoy using it without pressuring myself to orgasm. That was the right headspace to do it, finally worked for me. I told my friend who had also never had an orgasm, she got one and finally had an orgasm too. I celebrate the anniversary of my first orgasm annually. Good for you. We Vibe Melt made me squirt for the first time a few years later. Only in the past year did I first orgasm manually. I found I could do it if I'm wearing underwear and run my nails over it. Still haven't figured out how to orgasm normally with direct stimulation, but the vibrator orgasms are definitely better, and my boyfriend is very supportive of me using them, so I'm not in a rush. That I think is well, and I really like that.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

I like the fact that she's like, you know, hey, this is working for me, and I I'm not there yet, but you know, we're working on it. And but that's something that they can unlock.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Dude, what she said was finally unlocked it, was she got into the headspace, she changed her mental mindset, so she got stoned out of her mind so she could finally let go of the mental headspace and just sit there and enjoy it, and that's what unlocked it. And that's almost what happened to you, only it didn't take any kind of drugs. We had to do something completely different than we had ever done. We did, and that's what finally unlocked it when you couldn't resist and you couldn't get in the headspace because we hit a spot that you can't override with your mind. Yeah, and when we hit that spot you can't override with your mind, you had no choice but to let go, and then you're like, Oh, that's what that is. Yeah, I would like that all the time, please.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

Yes, yeah, and that and that by just having that little taste, it allows you to just unlock so much more, and that's why I'm saying for her, it's coming. She's gonna have more, she's they're gonna be more intense, she's gonna find the internal ones. By them doing the exploration that they're doing right now, they're gonna get there.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

Because what happened for us is it became external only. It went from nothing to external to internal to just about anything. Anything, just about anything, and it is multiples. 15, 20 in a session is not a problem because you learned how to unlock it and get into that head space. And once you learn that it's kind of like learning how to read those 3D puzzles, the ones where you have to really strain your eyes. It's literally like that. Once you figure out the secret, you can do it every time. But until you learn the secret, until you train your body, having an orgasm is like a 3D puzzle. You will never figure it out until you can get your head in that right space. And then once you can, you can do it every time.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Well, and this one is another one that they're talking about, um, the mental unlocks. And this one says, Um, by taking cannabis, getting off my antidepressants.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

Cannabis was and cannabis just makes people horny. Let's just let's just admit it. Gardening makes people extremely horny.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Yeah. So she said cannabis, getting off antidepressants, and reading erotic literature helped some helped me bypass the mental resistance.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

See, and women love literature too. So men love the porn, but women love literature.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Well, and the point I was trying to make is cannabis helps you loosen up, right? But but many women don't realize that antidepressants, which a lot of women are on, are killing their libido. And there are actually other things you can try that are better for your libido, and just talk to your doctor because So I like to have I like to have sex and I want to not be depressed at the same time, please. Yeah, yeah. So there are options that you can do to get off an anti an antidepressant that causes your libido to be killed. So, but but what she's saying too is like the erotic literature, let's go back to that, don't be afraid to like visually and mentally stimulate your bride, your mind.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

Like, is erotic literature any different than porn? Is it painting the same picture?

SPEAKER_00 37:55

Basically, yeah, it's it's the same idea.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

I can get there from both.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

Mm-hmm. Instead of mm- instead of it being visual, is words, but yeah, it's the same idea. But women should not be afraid to either watch porn or read erotic literature to help get them there.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

Watch it with your partner. Your husband's probably or boyfriend's probably already doing it. You may as well just join up.

unknown 38:15

You know.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Or if get an audio book and listen to it with your partner. Like that's hot too.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Now here's the thing I want you to understand. If you're a man listening to this and your wife has an orgasm, stop assuming it's a skill issue or a biology issue. The data says millions of women are struggling. It might be a safety issue, make them feel safe. It might be decades of shame sitting on their nervous system, take away the shame, make them feel sexy about all that.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Yeah. If you're a woman listening who thinks that she's broken, statistics say that you're not alone. You might just be braced, you might be clenched, you might have never given yourself the permission to feel.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

Orgasm isn't something you're trying to force out of your body. It's something that you're trying to allow when the body feels safe enough to absolutely let it go.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

Sometimes it takes unlearning religion. Sometimes it takes pelvic floor therapy, sometimes it takes practice, and sometimes it just takes a partner who actually slows down and listens.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

I want you to hear this very clearly. If it's possible for women who went 20 or 30 years without one to have one, it's possible for you.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

Oh yeah. You're not broken, you're probably armored.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

And armor can be shed.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

Oh, you can strip that stuff right off, baby. Let it go.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

And until next time, we hope that you stay undressed.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

And have orgasms. Lots of them. Get it on. Get your freaky orgasms on, people. Perverted.