E22 The Fantasies Married People Are Too Afraid to Admit

Most marriages don’t lose love, they lose honesty in the one place that matters most. In this episode, we break down why fantasies aren’t the problem, silence is. From purity culture and early conditioning to the real difference between fantasy, kink, and fetish, we walk through the stages couples go through and where they get stuck. We also share how not talking about desires slowly turns connection into routine, and how small, honest conversations can completely change your relationship. This isn’t about doing everything, it’s about knowing each other fully. #UndressedConversations 

#MarriageIntimacy #RelationshipTruth #LoveUnfiltered 

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We’re Mark and Tonya, high school sweethearts married for 30 years. After decades of trying to fit into roles that weren't ours, we finally dropped the masks and started telling the truth about marriage, intimacy, shame, healing, and what it actually takes to stay connected for life. Our goal is simple, to help couples build relationships that feel alive again.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

There's a version of your partner you've actually never met.

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Not because they're hiding it, but because they're afraid to show it.

SPEAKER_03 0:05

We're talking about fantasies, not the wild, unrealistic ones people joke about.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

But the real ones, the ones people actually think about, but they don't say out loud.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

Because saying them feels way too risky.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Or it feels selfish or wrong, or like it might break something that's actually good.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

Here's the real truth. Most long-term marriages aren't lacking love.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

They're lacking honesty in the one place that matters most.

SPEAKER_03 0:27

The biggest threat to your sex life isn't boredom. It's actually silent.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

It's the gap between what you feel and what you're willing to admit.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

Because when fantasies stay hidden, they don't really disappear.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

They distort. They turn into frustration, resentment, or distance.

SPEAKER_03 0:42

And the crazy part?

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Most couples are way more aligned than they actually think. They just never compare notes.

SPEAKER_03 0:48

For real.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

So instead of building something deeper.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

They both play it safe and slowly lose the spark they actually want.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

What we've realized is this always unfolds the same way.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Yeah, and there are stages to it, and most couples don't even realize where they're getting stuck.

SPEAKER_03 1:05

Stage one.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

This is where it starts to feel dangerous.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

So one of the things I think about is the early messaging that we received around sex. And we've talked about this in several different episodes, because the messaging typically comes from our parents, and that was given to them by their parents, and most of this comes from religion.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

But not only our parents, but our peers' parents, our friends' parents, people that we grew up with. And being around kids that were raised in a really, really strict household, like for example, me, because I wasn't raised in a religious one, it's still imprinted on me.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

Because it wasn't something that was openly discussed. Not only is it not okay to discuss actual sex, like we're talking straight vanilla stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

You know, you couldn't even talk about the likes off, we don't look at each other, you know, missionary style sex.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

That's or when the sex comes on on the TV shows and your parents like get really awkward and weird, and you're like, Do you remember that?

SPEAKER_03 2:01

Oh, I remember that.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Oh, they didn't watch stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

Like PG 13, you could definitely catch some nip slips and stuff. And so there was there was those awkward moments with your family, but the messaging was always awkward, and it's because it was built around shame and religion, yeah, and we had this idea of good and bad. You know, there's good sex and there's bad sex. Yeah. And again, we talked about this in in a I think our previous episode, one of our previous episodes, but the problem is that nobody gave us the rule book, and the rule book seems to be different for everybody.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:39

You know, we don't know we don't know what we're allowed to do. Some people are allowed to do this. I just read something in the Mormon church that says oral sex is completely taboo. In 1981, Spencer W. Kimball, the president of the church I belonged to at that time, as a boy, came out and said oral and all that stuff, and we've already known that masturbation is not okay. And so oral sex is not okay. And if those simple things that are routinely enjoyed in bedrooms across the world every night are not okay, imagine if you had some fantasy spanking.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

I'm okay being the lower level of heaven. It's fine.

SPEAKER_03 3:17

I'm done.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

I'm never gonna get there. Never, if that's the case.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

And the fear that having fantasies means that something's wrong with our relationship, or something's wrong with us, or that we don't desire our spouse. I think that's what some people hear when they hear fantasies. They have a fantasy and they're like, oh my gosh, what am I not good enough?

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Or the belief that love should eliminate desire for anything outside the norm.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

Um just because I love you doesn't mean that I don't want to do freaky things.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:44

It doesn't mean that I'm not this 12-year-old heathen that I I've I've had experiences in the past and those have molded and shaped me. And there's just some things that we can't get rid of.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Right. We confuse fantasy with intention. So fantasy is something that can just live in your mind, right? A fantasy is just something that you think about, that you want, that you desire, but you might not actually do. But intent is something intentional, obviously, in the word.

SPEAKER_03 4:15

It means you intend to act upon it. Fantasy does not have to be act upon. And I think some people hear a fantasy and they're like, oh my gosh, you want to do that. Okay. Let's bring up the let's bring up one of the most common fantasies.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Mm-hmm. Three sum. Did we just become best friends?

SPEAKER_03 4:34

That is a very common fantasy. It is. You can have that fantasy and never act on it. That has been a fantasy of mine since I was, I don't know, old enough to chase women.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:43

But you know, it just lived there.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Yeah. And it's okay to live there.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

Yeah, it doesn't mean it has to be acted upon. It's just something to get your motor running.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Well, and sharing fantasies can be excellent foreplay. And just because your spouse is sharing a fantasy does not mean they actually want to go out and do it. And they sh you shouldn't take offense to it.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

I think there is the stigma that if I told you that, you know, like, well, if I tell her what I'm into, if I tell her that I would really like to it add another person to our situation.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Is he out there looking right now? Are you like combing out people at the post office, like, oh, she's hot, I can bring her home. I mean, but some people actually are are that way where they can actually it can draw a wedge in the marriage because of it.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

Yeah, but it, you know, if I tell you this, what are you gonna think of me? What are you gonna think of me? Oh, he loves me less. This is Tanya now. This is this is Tanya now, and you're like, oh wow, this is a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

But the Tanya 20 years ago may have been different. Yes, I get it.

SPEAKER_03 5:37

Tanya 20 years ago would not have thought that was cool. No, yeah. I think Tanya, I think Tanya 20 years ago would have been really insecure. I think that you would have been like, oh my gosh, I'm not good enough. But at that point, we hadn't grown together enough to really fully discuss that well and to make that a even a viable option.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

No.

SPEAKER_03 5:55

We were we were too near new and even just trying to learn each other.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Yeah, and that kind of brings the point of your internal dialogue that you have with your with yourself where you're like, oh, if I say this, what will they think? Will they think less of me? Will they think you know I'm a bad person or that I'm a freak or you know, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 6:11

And so what we end up doing is self-censoring because we're afraid of what everybody's gonna think, and we end up stopping the conversation before it can even get off the ground.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:20

Um, this is supposed to be the person that loves you, and they're supposed to be the one that understands you or wants to at least reach an understanding of what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

This is the person that you spend your most intimate moments with, and if you can't share it with them, I mean they've seen you naked.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

If you can't talk about your fantasies with them, yeah. So we're talking at a bar one time. Uh we were at a bar, and you remember saying I've been and we're talking to that newly old couple, their pretty young couple, and we're like, yeah, we've been married for you know 25 years, 26 years, whatever it was at that point. They're like, wow, that's amazing. I said, you know what? We just really grew together. And he he looked at me and he said, You know what? I realized one day this woman seen my booty hole, and so I said, There's nothing I gotta hide from her ever again.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

And he's got a good point.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

That is such a good point. Like, he was straight up, he's like, he would scroll right here, see my booty hole. Like, we good.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

I loved that. They were a cute couple.

SPEAKER_03 7:11

That was so amazing to have him be so open and honest about that because that really is it. Your partner knows you intimately, or at least they should, and they should be learning and they should want to get to know you more intimately. The things that you don't say. There should be literally one person on this planet that you can tell anything to.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

I mean, that's why they have that's why they have your uh spouse can't testify against you. It's true. Because you should be able to tell them everything.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Everything.

unknown 7:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Spouse privilege.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

I'm not saying they should help you hide the body, I'm just saying you should be able to tell them everything.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Exactly. Stage two.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

This is what people are actually thinking, but not really saying. This is when you have the ideas, but you're not sure how to get them out of there. They're inside. I would like to get them outside so that my partner can understand who I am and what makes me tick.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:57

That's a large part of it, too.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:00

And I think it's, you know, for us is I want to feel desired again. You know, really desired again. Not just loved. So okay. I want to feel desired.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

So share with me what's the difference of feeling loved and feeling desired.

SPEAKER_03 8:14

So you loved me the whole time. You desired me from the time we started dating. Probably we did really good in the very beginning, and then I think we lost a little bit when we got to college, and it was just kind of like, you know, but it, you know, that first two, three years, that was desire. That was when you were like, I just want to rip his clothes off, I want to see him. You we had the pictures of me in my bedroom, and you would take pictures of me in my underwear and stuff like that, and then that that all just it stopped. And so that for me was you know, you were desired me. And then we went into the really religious phase of our life, and I was wearing garments that you didn't think were attractive. In fact, you've told me that you never found me less attractive than when I had those on, which I don't blame you. I felt the very same. And you stopped looking at me like I was a piece of meat, and people judge because, well, they're like, oh, I don't want to be a piece of meat. I'm sorry. I'm sorry right now. I would like to be a piece of meat for at least one person on this planet for her. I would like her to look at me and drool at me like a tiger does a steak.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

I would like to be the last meal for somebody who's been starving for a month.

SPEAKER_03 9:25

Yeah, exactly. I want to that's how I want you to look at me. I want you to look at me with so much desire, you can't wait to rip my clothes off. Like you're undressing me with your eyes all day long, and I love that. But that was not the way it always is.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Well, and from my point of view, I agree. I I definitely agree in the timeline, and it's because we let life get in the way. We let our insecurities get in the way, we let our children get in the way, um, work gets in the way. We just we get into this mundane day-to-day life and we forget. Because I never stopped desiring you, but I never showed it. Because everything else that's and that's not an excuse. I I shouldn't have let that stop me. But it's just life sucks.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

Well, we have the power dynamics change because in the beginning it's everything's super exciting.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:14

And you know, we're learning control, we're learning who's in control, who's the dominant person, we're learning how you're learning to surrender because you are the submissive person. I'm the more dominant person in our relationship.

SPEAKER_02 10:24

Weird.

SPEAKER_03 10:25

The being pursued, all that goes away because now I've got you, we're married. You know, they're just all the excitement leaves. You got me playful playful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

Now what are you gonna do with me?

SPEAKER_03 10:37

Well, apparently just have kids and get really boring. I mean, that was that was the plan unintentionally, but that's what most of us do because we lose all the playfulness and the novelty and the they're the routine, everything just becomes so routine, there's nothing new ever.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

And I don't think we're the only ones. I think this is a very, very huge problem in marriages and relationships worldwide. Absolutely. Yeah, and it you know, you're wanting to be chosen.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

You tell me that all the time.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Yeah, chosen in like a a primal or that whole intentional way, like in like we said earlier, but with with intent, but in a primal manner.

SPEAKER_03 11:16

Well, the book, what was the book we were um what was the book we were listening to, and it was all about big being chosen, the ritual.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

The ritual, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

The ritual. Yeah, she was. Very, very, very, very graphic. Very graphic book, very wild. Um, if you want an introduction into like some CNC type stuff that that's in there, but nasty. What she really liked was being chosen, and that was one of the things you liked, and it really made us realize that we both wanted to be chosen. I wanted to be chosen, I wanted to be desired in a primal, you know, carnal, intentional way.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:54

As did you. You wanted to be the person that I chased after.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

And we both forgot how to choose each other in those geez, 15 years, 20 years?

SPEAKER_03 12:06

Like, I would say 20, you know, from the time we're gonna go, it's it's we gotta get 10 was really hard, but there was there was five years on either side of that, maybe that were still just a little bit not that amazing.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

You know, I think the whole child rearing phase and like the whole work phase and 30s phase where you're trying to find your identity and they're rough.

SPEAKER_03 12:28

Yeah, we want to we have a lot of curiosity about doing things that are outside of the normal script. Why do you think on our honeymoon, one of the things we did when we got stuck in Casper is foray into um maybe having relations in forbidden spots.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

That was so shenanigans.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Oh, we had some shenanigans and some not so typical spots.

SPEAKER_03 12:52

Uh sauna shenanigans, but that was I don't know, I don't know what brought that on. I can't believe that we did that, but it was just the heat of the moment thing, and we're like, oh my gosh, we're here and we're we were always like that.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

And then we forgot that we were like that.

SPEAKER_03 13:05

That that is who we were, and we really did forget because we were so playful. I remember parking in the church parking lot. I remember forest trips, walking around naked in the forest and stuff. Like we did all that stuff, you know, topless. You got a sunburn so bad on the top because you were walking around topless in the forest on a camping trip.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

But you have to realize too, I mean, there's a reason why erotic literature, pornography, all these things exist, is because people want to go outside the script, they want to push their boundaries. It's exciting to go outside the script.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

It is, and it's very boring and very So Again, there's very few people that can eat the same meal every day. If you your favorite meal is spaghetti, and you have that every day the same exact way in the same exact manner at the same exact time, it gets really boring. You're like, you know what, I would just like a steak. I don't even care. I'd eat a hot dog right now because I'm so sick and tired of spaghetti. All of a sudden, hot dogs start looking like gourmet food, and then all of a sudden that's when guys are out there with workers. Workers, finding other people, side pieces, cheating, and it's not a good idea. Not just guys, but women too. Women do it. All of them when you're looking for that novelty. Why do you think the novelty of finding a new girlfriend, it's that pursue? You get the you get to pursue again, you get to be pursued.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

It's the attraction, it's the attention, it's the yeah, the excitement. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

We have emotional fantasies and physical fantasies. What's the difference to you between an emotional fantasy and a physical one?

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Emotional fantasy is how you're being treated and how you feel. During like um that's like the praise, praise kinks or degrading, or you know, stuff like that. And then the physical ones are like the BDSM and like the spanking and like the threesons and the other. Well, and I think emotional, I mean you have that connection, you know, like it's like the it's like having sex with a coworker or like, you know, stuff like that where you just have that emotional need met, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 15:05

Yeah, I mean that's cheating. We we don't know.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Well, I know, but I it it's and still people can fantasize about it.

SPEAKER_03 15:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Is what I'm saying. People fantasize about that.

SPEAKER_03 15:13

Yeah, like connection with the validation.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

It's like an eyes wide shut where she was talking about the the guy that she was fantasizing about having the one night stand with that she was willing to lose everything for. Did you sleep through that part?

SPEAKER_03 15:28

I did, I'm sure I did. I've seen it before and I know exactly what you're saying. Because I I was No, I didn't sleep through that. Oh no, and then she was talking to him about the girls that he ran off with in the at the party. You know, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Good movie, watch it.

SPEAKER_03 15:45

Yeah, it's a great movie, and that was really the thing that opened it. The crazy thing is, is that that whole scene in there, uh the party, the actual party itself, wouldn't be so creepy if they hadn't have done all the ritual stuff and the robes, if it wouldn't have done all that, and the changes. Could just be like a Saturday night at Scarlet Ranch. I mean, that's literally literally, yeah. You know, classy, elegant. Yeah, very tasteful. Good job, Stanley Kubrick.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:11

And I think that we need to realize that most of our fantasies are about feeling, not just about acts. It's about how we want to feel. Oh, yeah. It's about how we want to feel. How is that gonna make us? Because the ultimate goal in all this stuff is an orgasm. Obviously, we're all trying to get there, and stimulating the brain, which is the biggest sex organ in the body, is where all this stuff derives from. You can get physical pleasure, but the mind and the way that you're handled, the way that you're treated, the way that you're touched, the way that you know that connects with your um nervous system, that's the real that's the real trigger.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Well, and it's not just the orgasm, it's the pleasure around it. And just having that immense sense of pleasure and fulfillment.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

Because there is there's a lot of emotions based in fantasies and emotional safety. Sometimes you're looking to lose that safety. You want to feel a little bit you want to feel safe while still losing control at the same time. So those fantasies exist. Realizing that fantasies are about emotion and not just acts, I think, is really important as well. Because the act alone, without the mental component, without the emotional component, would probably leave you feeling flat.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

Oh, yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

There's always the emotional component. And I think we've said it before, and I I believe this. I don't know what everybody else feels, but I definitely believe that there's a difference between sex and love.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:33

And I think that's why there's so many couples that are in love and in dead bedrooms. Um love and sex are two separate things.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

There.

SPEAKER_03 17:41

You can love somebody and not want to have sex with them, and you can want to have sex with somebody and not love them. You could be slightly emotionally connected. So I think there's a lot of nuance there.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Oh, yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

You know? But it is about the emotion, the act combined, giving you that stimulation you're looking for. Stage three. Okay, let's clear one thing up first, because I think there's some people that are confused between the difference between a fantasy, a fetish, and a kink.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

So let's talk about what a fantasy is. Uh fantasy is defined as a mental image, a scenario that a person finds arousing or exciting, often involving situations, roles, or experiences that may or may not be desired in real life.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

Now here's what a fetish is. A fetish is defined as a form of sexual arousal in which an object, body part, or specific situation is necessary or highly significant for sexual gratification.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Yeah. Most people have fantasies, but very few have fetishes.

SPEAKER_03 18:38

And most fantasies aren't even about the act.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

They're about how you want to feel. Stage four.

SPEAKER_03 18:43

This is what happens when you don't talk about it, which is what we did for many years.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Many, many, many years.

SPEAKER_03 18:50

So what happened when we didn't talk about our fantasies?

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Well, everything just goes stagnant. Talk about ice queen.

SPEAKER_03 18:59

But what did we do?

SPEAKER_00 19:00

No, it just it it just cools everything off.

SPEAKER_03 19:02

Everything's not a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

It just stops. And you just you go to being your boring missionary on Friday night after you have ice cream. And it's there there's no there's no passion, there's no excitement, there's no thrill. It's just it's monotonous.

SPEAKER_03 19:26

It's the slow decline into predictability. That's what we had. Yeah, I think that's a good idea. We had exactly that. Where we just, you know, it's okay, well, we have it at night. Under the covers, lights off.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Yeah, don't turn the light on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

Well, and it could be that we've got the three positions to choose from. Maybe.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Maybe.

SPEAKER_03 19:47

Maybe.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Well, and it it could be where one partner could be disconnecting while the other one shows up. Usually it's that case where one's like trying to initiate and the other one's just like, okay. I'm too tired. I guess. I mean, I'll I'll show up, I'll be there, I'll participate, but I'm not gonna be in it. It's not gonna be fireworks and you know, nobody's putting any thought into what they're doing.

SPEAKER_03 20:10

So when you have fantasies, fantasies are so simple and can be so simple and basic. We started off talking about threesomes and which being a common fantasy, but some other fantasies that people have is just dressing up. Oh, yeah, role playing. Your role-playing. Role-playing one part, you know. I mean, maybe you want to see your husband or boyfriend in a position of power. You want to see a uniform on him. Maybe you want to see a uniform on the female, maybe it's a maid or a school teacher, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Or it could be something as simple as picking your spouse up at a bar, like role-playing that way where you're a stranger and you're picking each other up, you know.

SPEAKER_03 20:47

You're acting like you're we've never met and you're gonna try and seduce her for a one-night stand.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:53

I mean, I told the lady at Dillard's, so another funny story. We're at Dillard's, just having fun because we're getting ready to go out, and we do play scenarios. So I wanted to get dressed up, had to go to Dillard's to get some nice clothes. Lady behind the counter, super nice lady. She's like, Well, what I said, yeah, we just gotta get some hoe clothes. And she's like, Huh? I said, Yeah, hoe clothes. I said, you know, it's when you go out, like you just need to dress like a hoe so that you can have one night stand. I said, I've picked her up like more times than I can count. We've had more than one night stands. And she's just laughing. She's like, You're the best customers of the day. She said, That's that's hilarious. So what's we call them hoe clothes? It's not hoe clothes, it's just when you get dressed up and you look really nice.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

It's just something a little extra. It's a little fancier, a little extra, something outside the norm.

SPEAKER_03 21:36

And I'm gonna be a hoe. Be a hoe. I'm gonna go out there and be a hoe, and I hope I pick somebody up. Take her home.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

So that's what we do.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

You track her because she's it's it's a fantasy, it's fun. It's just adding that play and that excitement into something that became mundane.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Oh, yeah, totally, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 21:53

Fantasies also show up as private escapes instead of shared experiences.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

So you're talking about they're one sided.

SPEAKER_03 21:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:59

Can be.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

They can be one-sided. But I think that having a one-sided fantasy, it just it's all about interpretation. Now, if you go to your partner and you're like, hey, I want to have a threesome.

SPEAKER_03 22:11

You know, I think I don't suggest doing this.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

No.

SPEAKER_03 22:16

Not out of the game.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Okay. Having somebody, have your spouse come to you and say, I really would love to give you a massage and just see where it goes. That's my fantasy. I want to oil you down, have a massage and just see where things go. And instead of being like, hmm, I I don't really like oil and that's kind of gross. Like if you if a if the spouse would just listen to them, just listen to them and be like, okay, I see what you're saying. You know, hey, I get it. You know?

SPEAKER_03 22:48

Like in an oil massage, there's something for both people. Like I love to rub you down and feel all over your body.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:55

It's amazing to be able to do that, but then you get the pleasure of having the massage, and it can be completely non-sexual. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Well, I guess what I'm saying is you can turn a private escape into a shared fantasy if you present it right to your partner.

SPEAKER_03 23:10

Yeah. A shared, shared, shared experience. And it can become something. You know how many things that we would have said no to ten years ago that we're like, oh, that's that's so mild. Oh no. That's so mild. We've gone way, way past that because of the conversations.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that ties into um if you are sharing things with your partner and there's silence, you can interpret that as a lack of interest. Where the other partner could just be processing. So that's where that communication comes in. Where if you communicate with each other instead of being like crickets, you can be like, ooh, let me think about that for a little bit, or let me process that, or hold on, you know, I'm gonna think about that for a little bit, I'll get back to you. You know, that that just helps the situation.

SPEAKER_03 23:54

When you don't talk about it, there's an increased sensitivity to rejection because nothing is clarified. You haven't clarified anything. So if I talk to you about it and then you stay silent forever, um I'm going to treat that silence as rejection, or you hate it, or you don't like the idea, it's gonna be very tough for me to move on.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

So we have an experience based on this, don't we?

SPEAKER_03 24:16

I would love for you to share.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Well, there was a certain act that we performed a long time ago, and I enjoyed it, but it was taboo, and I felt ashamed that I enjoyed it. And so I never said anything. And you took that as, well, I guess she doesn't like it.

SPEAKER_03 24:33

Um I absolutely took it.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

I thought it's rejection, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

Okay. How this exactly went down. I know what you're talking about. This went down because it was a fantasy of mine. And this is twenty-some years ago.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

Long time ago.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

Probably about twenty, twenty-one years ago. Got a little tipsy one night, and I'm like, I just want to try this fantasy out. And uh so I told you, and you're like, okay. I mean, it's not like it was a no, but uh I mean the way I delivered it was probably a little bit there was consent.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

It was fine.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

There was absolutely consent, but it was something that was a little taboo, and so we tried it. Never talked about it.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Never talked about it, never mentioned it.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

Never brought it up again. Ever.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Crickets.

SPEAKER_03 25:12

So that was silence, and the whole time I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I have really offended her. I've done something terrible. We're just we didn't have a debrief. No, and there was no. I'm thinking that I have done one of the worst things that I could do to you. I felt like I had broken your trust, and you know, but I mean there was consent, but it was still that silence led me to believe that you didn't like it, that you hated it, that I had really offended you.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:37

And so we left that there for about 20 years. We just nope, never visited again because we forgot to talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

We forgot to talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 25:47

We forgot to talk about it after the fact and say, no, how was that experience for you? What would we do? You know, and we didn't try it another one or two times to see if it was something we just totally shelved it and didn't talk about it. And that is where we both lost out because once we did revisit that subject many, many, many years later.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

I actually really liked that and I really want to do it again, but I'm really ashamed about it.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

I'm ashamed of it, and so I can't ask for it. Yeah. And I'm ashamed of it because I like it and I don't want to ask for it. It's just one of those awkward things that it sucked, it sucked, it sucks so bad because it's something that we enjoy so much now, and we could have been doing that, we could have been enjoying that for 20 years if we'd just had a conversation. That that emotional distance around that fantasy and that act just became disguised as stability. We we decided that we were stable without it.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

You're living, you're breathing, but you're just existing. It's just it's a safe, calm area.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

We were safe, but we were less alive.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Oh, totally. 100%.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

You know, we lost that. Stage five.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

This is where most people get it wrong.

SPEAKER_03 26:53

Because they start out with things like I would like to have an orgy. Yeah, I would like to have people have those fantasies, and there's nothing wrong with those.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

No.

unknown 27:04

No.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

Society says there's things wrong with that. There may be things that you need to consider if you're gonna be involved and stuff like that, but inherently there is nothing wrong morally with that, and it is only our society that's told us that. What are some things that can make these go wrong for people as they open up these discussions with their spouse?

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Well, I think one of the major ones is the timing. You know, if you're if you're in a relationship and you're in the middle of, you know, ages one through three of raising a child, you have a lot of tension, you have a lot of conflict, you have a lot of role reversals and stuff like that, maybe not the best time to bring up an origin fantasy.

SPEAKER_03 27:42

Yeah, so how you deliver these messages and these fantasies to your partner matters. You can't just come out and say, well, and doing it during a fight.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Well, yeah, or or if you never XYZ. Yeah, or if you if it's a time in your life where one is working a lot and the other partner hardly sees them, and you bring up the fantasy where you want to have an orgy or a threesome or something, okay. Well, you I never see you as it is, and now you want to have sex with other people, you know, not exactly the best timing.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

Yeah, I would start again, like we kind of mentioned in the beginning, start small. Start with the smaller things. Make sure you get the delivery right because delivery issues can be a real problem. If you're too blunt and you bring it up and you're like, I have to have this or I'm done. Yeah, that's not gonna be too vague.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

We actually did read a story about that where she was, um, I'm gonna have this relationship. I'm gonna I'm gonna have one night stand on you with a coworker.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

Because I want her haul pass, and if you don't agree with it, then I don't really care. And I think she came back to uh cleaned out house.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

Yeah, she did. He left.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

Yeah, he was like, I'm gone.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

That's not the way to deliver that. No, don't be too vague. You know, being vague also has problems because then they're gonna fill in all the gaps with all the stuff you hate because our mind already goes to the worst spots. We're gonna think of the worst case scenario.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Well, and most people when they share their fantasies, they're being vulnerable, they're showing that side of themselves that is very hard to show. And so you need to respect that they actually are comfortable enough with you to share that information with you and not judge them on it.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

Yeah, the listener needs to be non-judgmental. You need to hear this from a place of trying to understand who the person you're with is.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:25

It should be, oh, this is giving me greater clarity into the person that I'm tied to. If you listen for understanding rather than judgment, you'll get a lot further.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

Oh, totally.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

The vulnerability is there for the person that's delivering this. It's like when I came to you and I had to tell you that I had been, you know, assaulted. You know, that's not it's not easy to do. And if you judge me for that, like what was I gonna do? I was six years old. If you could judge me for that, you could be like, oh my gosh, that experience changed in forever. And now I'm with this guy and he's had this this experience, and I don't know how bad it messed him up.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

Did not happen.

SPEAKER_03 30:00

You know, and then watch for the defensive reactions because defensive reactions, if if you're you know, if the first thing you're why not, why am I not good enough for you?

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:09

Why is this not good enough just like it is? Why, why, why do I have to go put on a squirrel girl out for it for you to love me?

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:15

That's defensiveness.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:17

Um shutting down and being like, we're just not gonna talk about this. I barely want to have sex with you, and you're talking about fantasies.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

And then the other ones like the the one who tells you, like, oh well, I was just kidding. I was just kidding. I don't really want to do that, I was just kidding.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

Joking enough, yeah. It was just a joke. I was just I was just seeing how you react if I said I wanted to have a threesome.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:34

No, if they're bringing it up, probably there's a little bit of truth to that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

And then there's the most important one of rejecting it immediately, which we have actually just dealt with recently.

SPEAKER_03 30:44

We did actually. Yeah. Just dealt with this.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

We did, yeah. Because I have a hard time where um my immediate thought on a lot of things is no. Like, I just have a hard time thinking about things first before I just automatically shotgun reaction, no.

SPEAKER_03 31:01

And and that's what I got one day. I was like, I was trying to enhance a situation and I suggested something, and you just immediately said no.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

Yeah. Without even listening, without even thinking about it.

SPEAKER_03 31:12

Nope. Nope. Because that night it was all about you, and it was we'll be very honest. It was a very selfish night.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

It was very selfish.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

It was a very selfish.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

I learned a lot about myself that night. Yeah. But the thing is, is I have learned that.

SPEAKER_03 31:24

It wasn't something we had never even done before. No, no, it wasn't. It was not new.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

No.

SPEAKER_03 31:28

Just to be very clear.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

But the the one thing I learned about myself is that instead of being just a shotgun reaction, just be like, hold on, or let me think about that, or explain, you know, any more information instead of just automatically being no. Because the thing is, is I once I thought about it, that 30 seconds afterwards, I'm like, no, this is right. Like, I want that actually is a great idea.

SPEAKER_03 31:51

That would have been so hot.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

It would have been so hot, it would have been amazing, but my gut reaction, my nervous system just shoots out that no, and I'm trying to train myself to not do that. So my my I have learned that it's that hold on or wait or hmm.

SPEAKER_03 32:06

What did you mean by this?

SPEAKER_00 32:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:07

What's your intentions? Then the airline.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Or the hmm. Give me a minute, give me a minute before I say anything.

SPEAKER_03 32:12

Because sometimes what I like to do is, hey, I've got an idea. And the last thing I want to hear is an immediate no. Right. I'd rather you say Let me think about it. Well, sometimes you don't have a whole lot of time, but sometimes it's like, okay, ask some clarifying questions.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

You know, what what in that situation I should have been like, explain or what, say what again? You know, or something like that instead of just immediately immediately saying no.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

And I think that we do ourselves a disservice when we think that one conversation is gonna solve the entire issue.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:43

These are things that you guys, as a couple, as most couples have been working on for years and years, one conversation around fantasies that the you know, on a date is not gonna solve everything. You're gonna have to continually talking about your relationship with your partner should be one of the highlights of your relationship. It should be like, wow, that was amazing last night. How did that make you feel? We get to that's something we get to talk about, not only about our day-to-day adventures throughout the day. It's like, hey, last night or this morning, that was amazing. How did you feel about that? I threw that little, I threw that little twist in there.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

Threw that little kink in there. What do you think of it?

SPEAKER_03 33:21

What did you think of that? You know, and you can debrief that, and that's how you start unlocking things. That's multiple conversations over years.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

And that's but that's one thing that you and I have worked really hard on in these past few years is elaborating things and talking about things and circling back and revisiting and keeping that line of communication open, and especially after something happens and we talk about it. We're like, okay, well that didn't work out like I thought, or oh, yeah, actually that was really hot.

SPEAKER_03 33:46

Understanding that this is a skill, it's not a one-time talk. It's you're going to have to build this. For us, it was a 32-hour road trip that opened up the door to us talking about our fantasies, talking about the things that we liked in bed, the things that really turned us on, the things that we hadn't done in a while. It's it's so time consuming, but it's worth it. And that's where we would encourage people to go out on dates. You need to talk about sex. This whole idea that we don't talk about sex has got to stop. And the problem is that when you really corner people, everybody wants to talk about sex. Literally everybody.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Everybody. Well, and the del like you were talking about the delivery. There's a difference between sharing, and there's a difference okay, there's a difference between sharing and pressuring. So you and I were sharing that 32-hour road trip. It was a conversation that you sent, like, hey, what are your fantasies? And then I'm like, oh, I had to respond. You know, that that's sharing.

SPEAKER_03 34:42

Somebody has to be the in those cases, somebody has to be the vulnerable one to go first.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Yeah, yeah. But you weren't pressuring me. It wasn't like you need to tell me this right now. Like, I need to know. No, exactly. So it was totally a sharing situation, and it was very comfortable, and it was very organic, and it just unfolded so much information.

SPEAKER_03 35:02

And this is a great spot, I would say, to let you know that we also have a website, undressconversation.com. There will be additional content there. And one of the additional pieces of content that you can find on that is the yes, no, maybe quiz.

SPEAKER_02 35:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 35:14

This is a great spot to help you develop that dialogue and that uh that conversation around your sexual fantasies, kinks, desires, the things you like. And the reason it works so well is because you both take it and you mark everything yes, no, or maybe.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

Yeah, so basically it's a huge list of fetishes, kinks, situations, and you go through this list and you mark either yes, no, or maybe.

SPEAKER_03 35:39

Sexual acts, everything.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

Everything.

SPEAKER_03 35:42

And then you have a clear place where you guys can start talking because all the yeses are things that you guys both agree you want more of.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

And let me just say, even the ones that are really far-fetched, they still will enhance you because you guys will be looking those up and talking about it and laughing about it and wondering what the crap people are doing.

SPEAKER_03 36:01

You know, and that yes, no, maybe quiz just gives you a place to start because all the yeses are a good place. Now, all the maybes, maybes are a good place to start because those are probably really new. And you can have a conversation about those. Why is this a maybe? Is it because it excites you, but you're a little scared? Like that is a good conversation to have. And then the nos, take it again in two years and find out how much of that's changed if you're putting in the work and you're having these conversations, and if you're really working on your relationship with your partner, the nos can turn into yeses.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 36:35

The nos can turn into maybes, the maybes will turn into yeses, and you will find that you are evolving so much faster and so much more than you ever thought possible.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:44

And that quiz will be available on our website. You can download it for free. So head over to Undress Conversations. And the other thing we invite you to do is if you're listening to this podcast, we have a TikTok channel where we do some unique and fun, creative TikTok stuff that are just about marriage and relationships and how we keep our life spicy and fun and entertaining. Um, same type of content there that you'll find here. And then in the after hours, we are going to start releasing the after hours. And today in the after hours, we're going to talk about our very first club experience. We're going to talk about the time that we ever went to a club for the very first time, how that went down, what we saw, and how it made us feel. Because we're not going to talk necessarily about the acts, it's about the environment and how it made us feel. We don't want you guys to get mired down in that people can write that stuff for you. That's not what we're here for. We're here to help you think about things that may be able to spice up your relationship, and so that will be more content that's maybe a little bit uh riskier riskier and has some risk of being censored on YouTube and some other places. That stuff will be at the vault. TikTok, Instagram, all those are great places to follow us. We encourage you to follow along. Definitely comment anywhere you can. You can also send us emails at stories at undressconversation.com. That is stories plural at undressconversation singular.com. We would love to have your if you have stories for us, if you have subject matter, if you have comments, questions, you can email us there. You can always comment on all of our socials. We love to have that engagement. This is what fuels us and keeps us delivering this content to you. So if you find value in it, follow along. Definitely go to the website, get the yesno maybe quiz, and it will help you tremendously if you want to have a great conversation with your partner about fantasies and sex in general.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

And can I just throw out there if you're needing some marital aids of any any any any way, shape, form, whatever, definitely check out for the love of it. That's where we got the yes no. Washington, that's they are the ones we need to give credit to the yesno, maybe. I don't know if they created it, but that's who we got it from. And they have an amazing store. You can shop online. Ftloi.net is their website. Check them out. They're amazing. And if you have any questions, you can just email them. They're amazing.

SPEAKER_03 39:00

They're very trained in all their products, how they work, how they function. They know the better ones. I mean, they can point you in the right direction if you're looking for a specific product and you have those hard questions that are uncomfortable to ask. They will absolutely answer all of them, and their staff is trained in all of it. So I could not recommend a better local family-owned store to buy all of your marital aids from than FTLOI.net. Thank you again for the yes no maybe quiz that we are now making available. Their logo will be on the back of that quiz, so you'll be able to see it. Definitely check them out.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

They're great help.

SPEAKER_03 39:37

Shipping's always great.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

So oh yeah, they get to hear quick. They're amazing. Stage six.

SPEAKER_03 39:42

This is how you actually open up the door for these great conversations.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

Well, and I think you have to start with curiosity. It's you're not confessing to your spouse like this is this is what I want to do. This is like, hey, you know, I've thought about this. I'm curious about this. What do you think about this? You know?

SPEAKER_03 39:58

Have you ever thought about this?

SPEAKER_00 39:59

Have you ever thought about this?

SPEAKER_03 40:00

I've thought about it, have you? And then you can be like, hmm, yeah. Or no, I had never thought about that, but tell me what you're thinking.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

Well, let me just throw this out there, too, that we have brought up fantasies to each other, and I'd say probably eight out of ten times we're like, I've thought about that too.

SPEAKER_03 40:16

Or I haven't thought about that, but it sounds fun.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

But it sounds fun, you know?

SPEAKER_03 40:20

You had one of those the other day.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

I did.

SPEAKER_03 40:22

You came to me and you're like, actually, I've been watching a particular scenario.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

And it really This shenanigan was off the hook.

SPEAKER_03 40:33

Particular scenario, and you brought it to me, and you were like, hey, actually, I I would like to try this.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

And you delivered.

SPEAKER_03 40:40

Until later that night, I mean, it was so easy and so simple. I was like, Yeah, this is we could do this in ten minutes.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

You're like, I got that.

SPEAKER_03 40:48

Totally got this.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

You walk in the door carrying your props, and I I knew, I knew it was going down, and it did not disappoint me.

SPEAKER_03 40:57

But that was something we had I didn't even know it was a thing until you told me. Didn't even know it was a thing.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:03

But it came from that curiosity and your willingness to talk.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 41:06

And I don't know where you found it. It just I don't know what popped up.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

I do.

SPEAKER_03 41:10

It's from anyhow.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

Was it Reddit? Reddit. It was freaking Reddit.

SPEAKER_03 41:15

Friggin' Reddit.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:17

You know, open up those conversations and really f you have to frame it as exploration. We're we're on we're on a mining trip. We're trying to find the gold. Not everything is gold. Some of these things are just fucking rocks, man. Some of them are rocks, they're called leverites. We're gonna leave her right there. You'll trip over some rocks on your way to the gold, but when you sift through all those rocks and you find the gold, that's the that's the good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

You know, if your spouse does share a fantasy, you need to realize that it's not an expectation. A fantasy is a fantasy, and it can either come to be true, or it can just stay as a fantasy. We have many of those where we have fantasies and they're just staying there for now. Like we have not moved forward with them.

SPEAKER_03 41:57

Frame it as exploration, not dissatisfaction. I think that's what people hear sometimes. They hear that it's that defensive, well, what you want that because you're dissatisfied. No, it's just I'm not dissatisfied. I just feel like there could be extra.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

It's something a little extra.

SPEAKER_03 42:13

Have you ever thought that this is the best it could get, and then all of a sudden somebody does something? You're like, that was so much better.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

That's like even better, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:22

Literally, for so many years, I was like, I thought we were having we were having good sex, and then we do one thing, and I'm like, this is so much better. And I look back at the sex we were having 10 years ago 15 years ago, and I'm like, it was terrible. I was satisfied. I was I was not dissatisfied, but I just didn't know what else was out there. I didn't know that there was this bright rainbow out there of all these things, these things. I had no idea.

SPEAKER_00 42:49

There's so much more.

SPEAKER_03 42:50

It wasn't disatis. I was totally satisfied in the moment, but when the first fantasy came up, we're like, and you try it, and you're like, well, that just added a you know, it's like it's like Kentucky fried chicken. If it only had one spice, it would suck. If it had no spice, it would suck really bad. Once you start adding those 13 different spices, which can be little fantasies or little maneuvers, and it tastes pretty dang good.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

It does.

SPEAKER_03 43:14

It starts tasting pretty finger-looking good.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

Well, and the other, like piggybacking on that, is once you start adding the conversation and the talk, it just it's gonna be like Pandora's box. You're gonna be like, you know, I don't know that I have any more, and then you can say, like, well, bit, here, I have this one.

SPEAKER_03 43:33

You know, I just did that to you last night. You did. I said, okay, so it's been a minute.

SPEAKER_00 43:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:37

Is there anything new you've thought about?

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 43:40

Do we and and we both pretty much landed squarely. Same spot. We we've got one thing. We've got one thing, and we're like, mm, if that opportunity ever shows up, yeah, it's on.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

It's on.

SPEAKER_03 43:53

It's on. But it lives in thought land.

SPEAKER_00 43:55

Well, yeah, but the thing is, is it's in our thoughtland. Like we've shared it with each other. It's not a s if if if the situation does come up, it's not a surprise to either of us. We both know about it. We communicate about it. We we are on the same page. Granted, we will revisit it if it ever comes up, but you know, it's cool to have that level of intimacy with your partner.

SPEAKER_03 44:15

Yeah, and so the way we did that is we started by asking questions. I didn't make a declaration. I said, Hey, I have a question. Yeah. Didn't say, hey, we're doing this.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Yeah, yeah. This is what we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_03 44:28

And I think with asking the questions, the other thing that that helps is it helps create that emotional safety. Because you need the emotional safety before the physical conversation. If you're at a bad place in your relationship, they're not gonna hear you when you're trying to have this.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

If your spouse is working 60 hours a week and you never see them, and then he comes home or she comes home and says, Hey, I want to try this, you're not gonna take it as well if you're in a stronger emotional spot with them.

SPEAKER_03 44:54

Or worse off, demand it.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:55

I've seen that. We've seen that. We've seen that in a relationship. It was demanded. Some certain things demanded, and that um that can lead an explosion.

SPEAKER_00 45:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:05

Disastrous explosion.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

Yeah. Well, and you have to share the why behind the feeling, not just the idea. Like, you know, why do you want to try this? You know, well, you know, I want to try this because I feel like it would enhance our marriage, and this is sweet, you know, you know.

SPEAKER_03 45:19

Why do you want to have a threesome? I wasn't a hoe enough when I was a kid. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

Because it's just spice, man.

SPEAKER_03 45:25

It's because I didn't live.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

One's good, two's better.

SPEAKER_03 45:28

Yeah, if one of something is good, the mind automatically goes to twos better, and then there's the whole point of the fact that I was raised in a religion, and I'm like, what did I miss? What did I miss not having experience? I had one experience before you. I've had, I mean, that's you know, so there's that part of you, and everybody's like, well, you just want to go sow your wild oats. And there's, yeah, kinda.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:48

Kinda.

SPEAKER_00 45:49

Yeah. And me as a spouse who fosters your creativity and your fantasies, I'm like, dude, I get it. Like, I get it. I understand. Not like, what? I'm not good enough for you.

SPEAKER_03 46:03

And then one of the things I've realized is I need to allow you space, like we talked about. It's sometimes your initial reaction is that hard, no.

SPEAKER_02 46:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:10

But if I allow you space to process and don't force it, we can sometimes reach alignment. Sometimes you just need to think about it. We need to have more conversations about it. Sometimes you can't give me an immediate answer.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

And that's okay. It's okay if your partner cannot give you the immediate answer. Plant the seed, man. Go farming.

SPEAKER_03 46:26

We are trying to build a culture of play.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

Yes, play.

SPEAKER_03 46:31

Not performance.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

I love play.

SPEAKER_03 46:34

I just I just want to play. Like, I cannot stress enough why we don't use that word in our adult lives more. Can Tanya come out and play?

SPEAKER_00 46:44

Uh-huh. I'll come out and play. Can I stay in a minute? Can Tanya come out and play?

SPEAKER_03 46:50

I love play and it's so much funner. It's it's falling off the bed, it's doing all the goofy stuff, it's laughing it off, having a good laugh right in the middle of a intimate moment, being able to share that laugh, and then jump right back into things. That's just kind of how it is.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

Play.

SPEAKER_03 47:05

Water breaks like play. There is no expectations other than having fun.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

Well, and I think we we both came to the realization, too, that our 40s are like our teenage years reinvented. Like it's it's our teenage years without the insecurities, without the judgment, without the fear, without all that. It's just it's like teenage years amplified.

SPEAKER_03 47:29

It I I believe that. Um this and for me And play is a huge part of it.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

I guess is the point I was coming across.

SPEAKER_03 47:36

But yeah. For me, this isn't about getting everything I want or everything you want. It's about us knowing who each other is.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:44

Like, even if there's something that I love and you're not ever gonna be down for it, ever, you at least know who I am.

SPEAKER_00 47:51

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 47:52

Like, oh, okay, I know that's rattling around in his brain.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

Well, and I respect you so much more for sharing that information with me and showing that vulnerable side. You showing your vulnerable side is so sexy. Like being able to totally undress mentally, you know, all that stuff, is so hot. So hot. Knowing your partner in that intimate manner.

SPEAKER_03 48:13

I think that's why you like my panties so much.

SPEAKER_00 48:15

I do. I love your panties.

SPEAKER_03 48:16

Yeah, I think that's why you like that so much. It's something that's like, here's this man that's a manly man that does all these things, but I know this little thing about him. It's and mo a lot of people do, I don't really give a shit.

SPEAKER_02 48:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:26

Um yeah, it's just the sparkly of Victoria's Secret panties are just man. I they got that what is that line called the bling band. Oh, the bling band?

SPEAKER_00 48:35

Bling band.

SPEAKER_03 48:36

Dude, dude, I I'm a fan. I always felt so bad because you could look so nice. And that was it was never a f okay. Maybe. Maybe it was a fantasy. I could go into some background.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

You're always very you've been very tactile all your life.

SPEAKER_03 48:51

Yeah, very tactile. So I like fabrics, I like the satiny feel. I don't like cotton. I hate cotton.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

You always want to meet me to wear satin.

SPEAKER_03 48:58

Soft and silky because I like to touch it and rub it. And like when you wear your satin nightgowns and stuff, I just like the feel of it.

SPEAKER_02 49:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:06

Like the smoothness. Wrinkles, I hate wrinkles. Hate cotton. And so I think that's one of the things. But I you were always able to look really good for me, and I had nothing that I could do for you. I'm like, what am I gonna do? Take it off and like here's my birthday suit. I feel like that just wasn't enough. I wanted some decoration, and you know, the overly Here's my boxer brief. Yeah, the overly maleized, you know, giant freaking sack shit. Like, I'm sorry, I just I'm a one-nutted fool. I don't got all that. I got enough to fill all that stuff up. It just but this was something that when we did it, so hot when we did it, but I had to take that leap of faith and do that. And then all of a sudden we're like, oh, oh my gosh, don't ever stop.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:46

Because but we have a style, it's like I say, I have my style, mine's Victoria's Secret, and I like Victoria's Secret. They have the bling band stuff.

SPEAKER_00 49:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:55

Looks so good.

SPEAKER_00 49:55

So good. You get a lot of compliments. But again, I mean, had you put them on, walked out to me, showed me, and if I would have reacted, like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 50:08

Yeah, what the fuck is this?

SPEAKER_00 50:10

What is this?

SPEAKER_03 50:11

I mean, that would have totally What kind of gay transvestite no, that's not what you did. But I had to, I mean, that was a real possibility.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

It was a possibility.

SPEAKER_03 50:21

You threw them at me, and I was just like, I'm gonna just show her what's up.

SPEAKER_00 50:24

It was the opposite.

SPEAKER_03 50:24

I was like, and then it was one of those things I did playfully.

SPEAKER_00 50:28

It was play.

SPEAKER_03 50:29

Totally playing around, just totally goofing around. And you took one look at that and said, Nope. Never take those off.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

I like it. I like it. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 50:38

And and I'm fine with it. It looks just like a bikini brief. It does.

SPEAKER_00 50:41

It I mean, honestly, yeah. It's not like it's it's like a swimsuit. Yeah, it's like a thong swimsuit that's not that there's anything wrong with that.

SPEAKER_03 50:48

Nice satin, I just like it. Gold, silver, it's kind of like my toes. It is your toes. It matches my toes sometimes. I can color coordinate. I'm just weird, whatever. It's fine. We're all a little fucking weird.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

I think I think the biggest takeaway is don't be afraid to share your feelings with your partner. Don't be afraid to open dialogue, but do it in a respectful, tactful way that works for you.

SPEAKER_03 51:10

And what I would suggest is if you're listening to this, send this to your partner.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:14

This is a great way to open up that dialogue and say, what are the things you're thinking about? Get the yes, no, maybe quiz and really bring the spice back to your fried chicken, baby.

SPEAKER_00 51:25

Not just one, but is it 15?

SPEAKER_03 51:27

It's 13, I think. Seven herbs, I don't know, five, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

KFC.

SPEAKER_03 51:33

It's KFC. Nobody wants KFC without any spices, that's all I'm saying. Yeah. That's my point. And if you want more content, we're gonna jump into the after hours right now and we're gonna tell the story of our very first club experience and how that went. Because that was an experience you just don't forget. No. It's it's memorable. The first time you walk into a lifestyle club.

SPEAKER_00 51:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 51:56

Actually, this is more of a kink club, but it was. We'll talk about that in the after hours. Until next time, we invite you to stay undressed.