E25 Why We Were So Wrong About Oral (And What Changed Everything)

We’re dropping the filters and talking honestly about something most couples avoid or fake their way through. In this episode, we unpack how our mindset around giving completely shifted, what used to feel awkward or misunderstood, and how that change made our connection stronger, more playful, and way more real. This isn’t about tips or tricks, it’s about what happens when you move from pressure and performance to genuine desire and connection. If you’ve ever felt unsure, disconnected, or just going through the motions, this conversation will hit. #UndressedConversations #RealMarriage 

#IntimacyRewired #ConnectionOverPerfection #LoveUnfiltered 

⭐ About Undressed Conversations

We’re Mark and Tonya, high school sweethearts married for 30 years. After decades of trying to fit into roles that weren't ours, we finally dropped the masks and started telling the truth about marriage, intimacy, shame, healing, and what it actually takes to stay connected for life. Our goal is simple, to help couples build relationships that feel alive again.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

The episode's called Oral Sex. And before we get started, I want to read something that came out in January fifth, nineteen eighty-two from the president of the church that I belong to, and the church that formed my opinion about everything around sex. And it is a quote The first presidency has interpreted oral sex as cons constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it. And that references, in fact, to the you need to go through a worthiness interview to be considered able to enter the temple. That is what formed my opinion and everything I know about sex and especially oral sex.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

It's a natural.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Yeah, because if the marriage is healthy, the lingerie should be too.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

And that's how we knew our marriage was different.

SPEAKER_03 1:11

This podcast is for couples who want connection, honesty, and a marriage that feels alive again.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

And for anyone who wants the truth about love, not all the bullshit.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

This is Und Conversations.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Where we strip marriage down to what's real.

SPEAKER_03 1:28

This is a little different. You'll notice that this is not the normal release day for our podcast. Typically, we release on Thursdays at 6 a.m. Eastern. This is not Thursday.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Good job. What are you saying? Sorry, I was just undressing you with my eyes, and it's fine.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

So we're doing something a little different here, and this is gonna be more unedited. A little, well, unscripted, actually. Yeah. And we're gonna have a conversation like we would talking to each other because we are talking to each other. And that's what we do in the White Room. And so we sit out there and we have these conversations, and we thought, you know what? Sometimes maybe that's what people are after, is the real intimate conversations. So that's what we're gonna have today is an intimate conversation about world sex. Do you remember the first time that you ever received it?

SPEAKER_00 2:18

I I don't know if it was the first time, but I do remember a few instances where we were in your waterbed, blankets up, over your head. You went spelunking. And um I do remember that, and it was amazing.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

By spelunking, you mean by spelunking, I mean you went south. I went under the blankets. I was thinking more spelunking is actually cave diving.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Oh, yeah, you didn't spelunk into the cave.

SPEAKER_03 2:47

I wasn't spelunking at all.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Well, I mean, maybe you'd went inside the cave, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 2:51

We might have been doing some spawning at that point in time. But yeah, I remember that. We talked about that a little bit in our rules episode, and you know, I would disappear under the covers.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Actually, that was the first time I remember you almost gave me an orgasm and it kind of freaked me out, and so I pulled away. Yeah. In hindsight, I'm like, I should have just embraced it and just been like, But you were scared. I was scared, I didn't know what it was.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

You were terrified because at that time you hadn't ever learned about orgasms or feel like nobody told you what to expect if one happened. That's a really interesting topic, too. Is it nobody taught us what an orgasm was, what it felt like, what to expect. So when it happens and something new happens, you usually pull back. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

You're like, oh, yeah. It was the unexpected. Like something's wrong, like I don't know what this is. Oh, we can have our drinks, can't we? Hold on. Let me get mine.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

Yeah, we're we're just sipping on some some jerry's.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Sipping on chin and juice laid back. Jerry.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

Is your jerry soft or hard?

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Uh my series, my jerry is mid. It's like that perfect soft on. It's a mid jerry. It's a mid jerry, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

It's a mid jerry.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

So we have a joke that when we first made jerry, which is Sailor Jerry, it's rum. And I had a friend make it for me, and it was like super heavy. It was it was hard. And so I called it a stiff jerry because it had a lot in there, but it was pretty stiff. And so I said that I like my jerry mid, you know, like the perfect soft on. You know, I and you all women, you know what I'm talking about. Like it has the perfect weight, and it's like it's a soft on, anyhow.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

It's mid.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

It's mid, it's a mid jerry.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

So you have a mid jerry?

SPEAKER_00 4:29

I have a mid jerry. Not too stiff, not too soft. It's like the perfect weight. Anyhow.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

That has nothing to do with a roll sex, but no, it does. But I it it absolutely does, actually.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Mid.

SPEAKER_03 4:44

So I would disappear under the covers, and I almost made you climax and you pulled back, and you were like, Oh my gosh, I don't know what's gonna happen. Because you could feel it coming, and you're like, Oh my gosh. Like something feel something's weird. Because what was your initial reaction? What did it feel like?

SPEAKER_00 4:58

It felt like electricity.

SPEAKER_03 4:59

Really? Yeah, because there's other things that we've done, and the urge was like to pee.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Yeah. No, it didn't feel like that. No.

SPEAKER_03 5:08

No.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

No, I only get that feeling when you're doing a specific motion, and it's usually interior.

SPEAKER_03 5:13

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So it didn't feel like that at all that you were scared.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

But it was like electricity. It was like that that feeling, like, hmm, something, something's off.

SPEAKER_03 5:22

Something's off, and I'm a little bit scared because I don't know what it's gonna happen if I let this tiger out of the cage. Right. Rarer.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

Rarer. And I should have let the tiger out of the cage. I should have let that tiger explode out, and I didn't.

SPEAKER_03 5:34

So do you remember the first time that you did it to me?

SPEAKER_00 5:37

No, unfortunately, I do not. I remember feeling you, I remember it hands on, but I don't remember mouth on.

SPEAKER_03 5:45

You don't ever remember the first time that you can think of where you performed.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

No, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_03 5:50

So I do.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Oh, you do?

SPEAKER_03 5:52

I do.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

The first time that I can ever remember the earliest recollection that I have of you doing that. And I'm certain that there were occasions before that, but this is very memorable. I had purchased a 1971 Ford F-250 when we were on a honeymoon in Cheyenne. I paid cash for it. I was working my own business and I was so proud of that truck. Like it was. I still kick myself today for losing that truck.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

But we had bought that truck and we couldn't bring it back that time, or did we?

SPEAKER_00 6:24

No, we couldn't.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

So we went back down another time and brought it back. And when we were on the way back, you were riding with me, and you gave me one on the road.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

The the Hummer, the road hummer.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

Because it had that perfect bench seat, stick shift. Like this is this is the stuff.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

It was the road, it was the road hummer track.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

And and that was it was like the olive green. And if I was doing a YouTube episode out of this, I would give you a picture of the truck. But you're just gonna have to imagine. But this is that classic 1971 F-250 high boy, and we're driving down the interstate. I think I want to say it was right by Chugwater because I remember the rock cliffs on the one side of the highway, and I remember we were headed north on I-25, and you just kind of slid over and just dropped down. And this is back before seat belts dinged at you, and you had all these problems in center consoles. It was it was the perfect setup. Yeah, it was the absolute perfect setup, and that's the first time that I can remember, and it was so exciting.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

I I actually I remember that as well. I do. Yeah, I didn't know if that was the first time per se.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

That's the one I'm just saying, the first time.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

It was the first memorable, yeah. That was definitely. I I know I did it to you before then, but obviously they weren't that memorable.

SPEAKER_03 7:43

But that one made a memory, it did, it did. And I know that we were doing things like that because you never shied away from any of that activity. And that's one of the things we've talked about. And when we talk about oral, the first thing that happens is you start feeling, you know, so the way our play started and the way our relationship started was, you know, obviously kissing, and then it gets into groping and you know, the heavy hands, heavy petting, heavy petting, hands on, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

And then you just then you just start exploring.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

Then it's hands in the groins and hands all over, and you can remember slipping hands down my pants, and I can remember doing the exact same thing at 16, and then we progress, and then I start sliding under the covers, and hands turn into mouths.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

It's good times. It was good times, it was all happening, it was amazing, yeah. It was fun.

SPEAKER_03 8:40

But the problem is it stopped. It did.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

It did.

SPEAKER_03 8:44

There was a time you were telling me that you can remember early on in our relationship, you sticking your hands down my pants and actually exciting me enough to where there was release, yes, and feeling that and getting super excited, or having the pre-release from me just being turned on too many times and the up-down cycle.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

You know, that's I don't know if if showers have that problem, but we c we call it do. We call it do. That came from Fifty Shades of Grey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so you and you weren't disgusted by that.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

No. In fact, it I was the opposite. I was turned on by it.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

And early on in our relationship, I felt like you really appreciated my body, you appreciated all of it. Not just not just what I could provide or anything, but like you worshiped me.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

Like every part of me. And then it literally died.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

Yeah, I think it probably was the same time that we had kids. Because I we were pretty, we were pretty ambitious up until we had kids.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

We were. I mean, these were the times in our youth when we were right before kids, you lost a bunch of weight. Yes, got super confident. We went to New Orleans, we were you were coming to visit me at job sites because I traveled all over. Went to strip clubs, went to strip clubs, they pulled you up on the stage, pulled your tits out, they got my nipples. You got your nipples pierced, I got my nipples pierced, we got our tongues pierced. We were wild, we were absolutely unhinged, and then right after that, the period right after that was kids, kids, mr, mr. And all of a sudden, that's when everything stopped. And I think that's when you switched from I worship my husband to now I have another person in my life that I have to pay attention to. And that's when we went into the oral is reserved for when I am on my period.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

I remember that. Yes. It was a favor, it was more of a favor and a duty, and it was a pleasing. It was definitely my people pleaser personality coming out, like, okay, I gotta take care of my man.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

But you did it before willingly.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

I did.

SPEAKER_03 10:54

Then you went into this mentality when you're like, oh, oh, I guess it's that it's that time again. It's been it's been a while.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

It's been a month.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

And do you know what that did to me?

SPEAKER_00 11:08

What did you?

SPEAKER_03 11:09

It made me think that you thought everything about a male was disgusting.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

I can see how you would think that. So why why did you think that?

SPEAKER_03 11:20

I thought that because you never wanted to see me. It was lights off. You never wanted to see me. I wanted the lights on because I wanted to see you. You never wanted to see me naked, you never oogled over me in the shower, you never thought, oh my gosh, there's what a fine specimen of a man. It didn't matter the shape I was in. You were never you didn't you didn't grab me, you didn't grope me. You would demand that I grope you and grab your tits and spank your ass and pay attention to you, but you would never reciprocate. You didn't reach up behind me if I was standing somewhere and then run your hands on the inside of my thighs and down to my crotch and just wrap your arms around me. You didn't do those things, you didn't do any of that. You'd give me a hug and a kiss, which told me you thought men were gross.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

And here's the thing: that is not at all what the problem was.

SPEAKER_03 12:11

What was the problem?

SPEAKER_00 12:13

The problem was I had zero self-confidence in myself. Um, I felt fat, I felt ugly, I lacked confidence in my abilities. I felt like I wasn't good at it. And instead of you feeling like you would criticize me for how terrible I was at it, I would just rather not do it.

SPEAKER_03 12:33

And I was just fucking begging for it.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

But the kicker is, is you gave me oral all the time, but I did not reciprocate. I'm sorry. I'm sorry for that.

SPEAKER_03 12:43

Yeah, I wonder why I felt Yeah, I wonder.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Wonder why you felt the way you did.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

I wonder why I felt like you thought men were disgusting.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Oh, I totally I mean, in in retrospect, I totally see how you felt the way you did. It really sucked that I didn't love myself enough to show that appreciation to you. Because it wasn't you, I was totally attracted to you. I thought you were sexy as hell, turned me on, loved your body, loved everything. I just didn't know how to say it.

SPEAKER_03 13:10

Yeah, I felt rejected.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

I can see that.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

Here's a woman that expects me to do it almost forces and will not reciprocate unless I suggest it. Not suggest. I would have to be like, well, I don't your period's here. It's it's that time of the month. Come on. That's that's what it felt like. You know, that doesn't make me feel desired.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

No, I can see how. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

Even though you never ever went the extra step and spit, which I think that would have been even worse.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

If you'd have been like Oh yeah, I was never a spitter.

SPEAKER_03 13:46

If you'd have been like, Yeah, this is not my thing.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:51

I'm gonna go be sick.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Thank goodness you didn't do that. But yeah, I never felt I never felt attracted. And I think that stems from everything that we're even seeing today, is the fact that you have had zero experience with anybody else.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Yeah, you were my one and only. You were the first of everything.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

And so other than seeing it, you saw others, and that traumatized you enough that when you felt safe, then this is it. And so I'm like, she, you know, there was times I was like, I actually think she likes girls more than she likes guys. Because you and I could make commentary on how attractive women were, but men you were like, Yeah, I'm just not interested in them.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

It's because women are not as threatening. And I know that now, but I didn't learn that until just recently, too.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

So, what changed for you?

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Oh, I would say, well, we talked about your 32-hour road trip many a times, and I think that door opening up to where we can talk to each other, and you're like, Okay, hey, you know, one thing I miss is you know, I miss oral sex, because I remember you said that. And then I do remember me actually confiding in you that number one, I wasn't confident in my skills.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

I asked, I was like, why the fuck won't you do it? What the hell is your problem? Like, I feel like I have to beg for it for you to be able to do it. I was like, I don't want to beg for something that's just a challenge for you. I want you to desire it like I desire oral sex with you because for me, oral sex was the best way to get things started. It was a way to get my motor running. It was I loved everything about it. I loved the I loved the freaking story, the sights, the senses, the smells, the freaking journey, the freaking Were you running through a meadow or something? It was. It was such a fucking adventure. It was I was a little girl running through a daisy field. I don't know what the fuck. Imagine what you want.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Well, and here's my thing is I was running a little girl running through the daisy field, and this weird little mushroom sticks up out of the ground and like trip over it, and I'm like, what the fuck is that? And I'm like, I don't know what to do with this thing, and it's just like in my face, and it's like weird.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

And just call me a mushroom.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

I did.

SPEAKER_03 15:55

I called you a daisy field. Can you fucking trip over a mushroom?

SPEAKER_00 16:01

It happened, man. It happened. No, but I mean, but what I'm saying is it was foreign to me. And it was, I didn't allow myself to experience it fully, either because of my shame or my lack of confidence, or it could have been a mix of everything. And with that came my lack of ability. And with the lack of ability, you know, I just felt like I couldn't do it properly, and I didn't want to disappoint you because I was such a people pleaser. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 16:30

Too much teeth, not enough teeth.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Too much teeth. I thought I would. I mean, yeah, you I was scared of hurting you.

SPEAKER_03 16:35

I mean, if anybody's ever seen your fucking beaver teeth, I do not have beaver teeth. I guess you'd have to go go to YouTube and decide for yourself. I'm kidding. She doesn't have beaver teeth.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

But I also didn't.

SPEAKER_03 16:47

But you were afraid of hate uh hurting me.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

I was afraid of hurting you. And also, I went through a period in my life where like I was scared to death of choking. And I I had a hard time even like swallowing pills and stuff. And so having things in the back of my throat freaked me out. I know that's no excuse, but still it adds to the whole trauma of it where you're not confident because you're like, this feels weird, and I don't know how to do it, and I'm scared of hurting myself, I'm scared of hurting you.

SPEAKER_03 17:14

Yeah, I don't want to die.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

I don't want to die, I want to breathe. Yeah. So it was lack of ability and See, I don't understand that from my perspective.

SPEAKER_03 17:22

I was like, Can you please try and kill me? And you wouldn't even try and kill me. I was like, just smother me. And they're like, No, I don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

And I'm like, no, just get up here and just I felt like a 500-pound sea cow.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

And when I was trying to get you to kill me.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

I know, but when I Well, not literally when I look down at myself and I see what I see, and I turn myself off.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Like I'm like, Woof, buzz's girlfriend.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Buzz's girlfriend, woof. Yeah, but it's like if I don't feel good about myself, I'm not gonna be like all in. So I mean, what I'm saying is I was fucked in the head, and I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 17:55

I wanted to see and I wanted all that because it really was the best way to get me going, and you weren't interested in that at all. And so it was like it felt like the Tanya show. Yeah, like everything was the Tanya show.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

I I I feel terrible about that.

SPEAKER_03 18:11

And I was okay with the Tanya show because at least Mark was invited, like at least I had an invitation. Right, you were there, you had a guest spot. Yeah, I was VIP, I was front row with the Tanya show. And but I'll say at the same time, where you had all of the best oral.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:30

That was because that was the only way we had determined that you could arrive at the station.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Exactly. That was the only way I got to the station.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

That was the only way.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

Where you got to the station no matter what.

SPEAKER_03 18:40

I did, and usually too soon, too fast. Like sometimes we skidded through the station, like it was with that ferociousness and intensity, man. You were like, It's like, what, you got an extra five, six seconds. I got this. Yeah, and that that was you know, you didn't you didn't get there easily and or internally. And so this was the only avenue that we had.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

So I can see you being a little selfish there. I always got there. At least that way you could join me.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Right.

SPEAKER_03 19:16

We could both meet on the platform, wave to each other, give each other a high five. Yeah, we'd give high fives. That was one way that we could share it, and probably the only way. Because if it was only if it was only traditional marital sex, PIV, you nothing was happening.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

There was no there was no fireworks.

SPEAKER_03 19:39

But you like you liked it, you liked the feeling.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

I love the and that's what I told you. It's like it feels good. Like I enjoy it, and I enjoy our connection, and I enjoy the way it feels. It just I never got to the station at all.

SPEAKER_03 19:51

And then everything kind of changed. It was like a 32-hour road trip.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Yeah, after the road trip, after confessing to each other everything, we and that's when we confessed all of our secrets, all of our everything we've done in the past, all of our fantasies, all of the things we fucked up, everything. Like we shared everything with each other.

SPEAKER_03 20:10

Everything like deep dark fantasies at the time. Like the things that we were like, I um the A-word. I can't believe that I'm about to say this, you know. We're I can't believe we're gonna talk about the back door.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Yeah, the back door.

SPEAKER_03 20:23

Yeah, because we had to talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

It was a key part because anal was a huge part of our sexual discovery. It really was, and it was. It was only one thing. Well, no, but yeah, but it was it was a part that we were probably the most ashamed to talk about.

SPEAKER_03 20:38

Yeah. But it was after we started talking about some of the other stuff. And what I noticed during that road trip is that after that, the fire turned up on everything.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

It did.

SPEAKER_03 20:51

And it's hard to pinpoint what got better first, but what I can say is I can remember a specific instance pertaining to Oral where another couple sent us a picture of her really seductively just enjoying him. Just a picture, but it was really nice. And you were like, But we had to recreate it. So we did, we recreated it. And I remember the photo, I like it's in my mind. It's in my mind, it lives there. Yeah, and you started really focusing because we talked about it on the road trip, yeah. How I was like, I don't know why you don't like sucking it. Why why is this such a big problem for you when I can deal with all the moisture issues around you around the typical vagina? You know, they're not exactly if one walked up on one in a forest, if you're gonna compare mine to a fucking mushroom that you trip over, nobody's looking at a clam on the seabed floor thinking this looks amazing.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

Let me just Put my tongue on it.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

It's a little fucking intimidating. That's all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:05

So I was able to overcome that, and I couldn't understand why you couldn't learn to love mushrooms.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Yeah. After said picture was taken, and after our conversations and our openness, the trust in you just started to grow. And the more I trust you, the more I felt safe with you. And the more instead of me just wanting to please you, I'm like, you know what, I need to please myself too. And that's when I really started thinking about it and getting just getting more of an appreciation for it. Because number one, what do you say? 18 minutes a day?

SPEAKER_03 22:36

Yeah, 18 minutes a day basically, and they say it equals 100 hours a year. I don't know. You you can do the math. I haven't actually checked that fact.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

I was spending 18 minutes a day for all those years learning how to perform oral on you, and I was really good at it. That's the only way that I could get you to Otown.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:53

Was to perform oral. And so I did that, and you just had you you weren't developing skill.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

When yeah, when I do it once a month, there's no way I'm gonna get good at it. So what I'm saying is we started practicing more. I started practicing more. We started doing it more often.

SPEAKER_03 23:08

Do you remember that buddy blow job?

SPEAKER_00 23:09

I do.

SPEAKER_03 23:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Mm-hmm. Yeah. My skills now are so much better.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

So this is this is, I think, one of the game changers. So this is 2024. 2024, we take a trip, meet a couple, and you know, we're we're we're kind of wild, obviously. We're in the swinger lifestyle. It's not it's not out of the norm for us to dabble into parallel play and things like that. So this is one of those situations we're sitting by a pool and somebody sits down and she comes over and she starts sucking on him, and you're like, Well, bet, I'm not gonna be outdone.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

And so you who you start on me, but I was looking at the technique and the ferocity and the everything, thinking, kind of like to try that. Like, she was doing the tongue tornado and the twist and shout, and like, dude, it was a freaking get down and boogie and hoe down in the barn, and it was everything all wrapped up into one, and there was like plenty of fluids, and you were pretty basic.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Yeah, I was basic.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

You were pretty basic. I remember one of the first things I had to tell you is stop just worrying about sucking it and get your hand involved.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Yeah, there's more to it. There's about the motion. Because what do you tell me about oral that you need to put some fingers in there?

SPEAKER_03 24:28

Fingers are always better.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Mm-hmm. There.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

The more that you can keep all available assets in the game, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Like the more you play the field.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

You don't want to have a D11 just sitting on the hill when you got dirt to push. Sorry, I watched too much golden.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

I was gonna say, wow, that's not at all like sex, but okay.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

I'm just making analogies.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

Okay. But yeah, I mean, you're saying that's a big job.

SPEAKER_03 24:52

That's a big dozer. Like you gotta get in the game. Yeah, you don't leave your best equipment out of the game. That's true. That's true. You have two hands, that's big equipment, that's some D11s. That's what I'm saying. Sorry, I do construction. It's okay. You might get more construction analogies.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Well, and after after the buddy blow job, it took another year, I'd say, right? And that's when I started watching more and more porn, right?

SPEAKER_03 25:23

With males.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

With males, yeah. Because that wasn't your thing. Before it was lesbian, and before it was like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:30

That was safe.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

It was safe, it was really safe.

SPEAKER_03 25:32

But you know, he kind of It's no wonder I felt like she was a lesbian.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:37

She didn't like dicks and she watched lesbian porn. I wonder why she I w I wonder why I thought maybe I had to work to keep her because she didn't really even like me. Yeah. And I was a half a step out the fucking door.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Yeah. But it wasn't that I didn't like that. I know, I I know it felt like that, but that's not you don't have to feel bad now.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

I still feel bad.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

You don't have to feel terrible. But it's just the reality of the situation. That's not that wasn't your intent.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

No, no.

SPEAKER_03 26:04

But it's what I felt.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Yeah. No, uh, I get it. I totally understand.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

I think there was times maybe when I was worried you were so into women that you weren't into me. There were absolutely times, and even now, where it would be easier for you to do oral on a female than a male.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

To trust, it's the threatening thing. You are big on safety. And I think that's the one thing we learned. You have to feel safe.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Well, and that's what we learned last year, is where my issues come from, which we don't realize that so much of who we are is ingrained in us from a young age.

SPEAKER_03 26:39

So, what made you safe and allowed you to start really enjoying it? What changed it? Because the buddy blowjob happened.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

The buddy blowjob happened.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

We had a talk, and I said, I'm not getting enough oral. I would really love more oral because that really turns me.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

I I started talking about it and then we got sidetracked. But yeah, so then I I switched in what I was watching, right? So I switched from watching like the lesbian porn to more of like the anal porn and the double penetration porn and like other stuff like that, more of that involved guys, right? I would start to watch where like the girls would deep throat, and I'm like, actually, hmm, no, it was TikTok. There was the TikToks. Remember the TikTok that showed you the technique, like you're supposed to like clamp your hand palm your thumb, and and it's supposed to reduce the gag reflex or something like that. And I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

Because I didn't realize the whole time you were having gag issues with that.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Yeah, I was having gag issues. Like I didn't like things in the back of my throat that it kind of freaked me out.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

Well, I mean, just to be clear, you don't have to go all the way to the back of your throat if that's not your thing.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:40

But sometimes us guys don't understand where we're at.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:44

Or sometimes we can get aggressive.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

Exactly. It's kind of like when you It went back there many times. Let me just say that.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

It's kind of like when I'm down there and you start getting really forceful with your hands and trying to like kill me.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:59

And force my face through the back of your pelvis and motions happen. It starts getting to that intensity. We don't know.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:09

Do you know how forceful you are sometimes?

SPEAKER_00 28:11

No.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

It's good though. It's okay. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

That's good.

SPEAKER_03 28:15

I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Yeah. So anyhow, the TikTok came up. And I'm like, okay, so you're saying there's there's something I can do to make this more enjoyable for me and not freak myself out so much. So I decided that I was gonna just practice on myself. So I got myself a little friend out of my drawer and I tried it. And I'm like, huh, okay, it actually works. So then I tried it with you.

SPEAKER_03 28:38

You told me.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 28:40

You're like, so the other day I was doing this thing, I was in the closet, and I just wondered if I could do it. And you're like, I did it. You're all proud.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

And I think I sent you a video.

SPEAKER_03 28:53

You did.

unknown 28:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:54

You did. You sent a video. And I was like, I didn't even know that was something you were interested in.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:02

And you're like, no, it really kind of amplified things for me. And so then you started playing more, and it was one thing led to another, and all of a sudden you looked at me, and like I would be getting dressed, and I'd catch you just like staring at me, almost like clapping with your eyes, like, yeah. Oh, he's getting undressed. Like it was those small things, and I could see the desire returned. Then you started asking if you could perform more oral. And then you started demanding. You're like, no, we're not doing anything until I do this on you. And I was like, Huh. Really? That what I told you is I was like, this is exactly how I've always felt about you. Yeah. You're finally starting to understand how much appreciation I've had for you this entire time and how much I love performing this on you because it turns me on, and there has not been a better way to start sex ever. Like it is the perfect way. Hands, tongues, feeling, groping. That's how our sexual evolution started.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Yeah. Because after all, it takes like 15 minutes to prime the female.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

All of that stuff, the kissing, if you look at the sexual evolution of our sexual progression, it's exactly how sex should progress.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

Kiss, get turned on, feel erotic, look good, be turned on, take in all the visuals, then start sliding hands places, start doing things, feeling, exploring. And then clothes start coming off. And I don't know, we're like a bunch of fucking toddlers, and the next thing we know, everything's in everybody's mouth.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:42

Like it's okay. I can't believe that the LDS, Mormon, the church, came out with a thing and has not since rescinded it saying that oral sex is immoral, yeah, unjust, a crime against humanity basically. Should be penalized with death, probably, because sexual sins are the like one of the worst things that you can do in that religion, and has not rescinded that. Not nobody's come out and said anything differently. And it's no wonder that more people aren't comfortable having oral sex. It is one of the best ways and the best amazing ways to connect. And I don't care if you spit, swallow, none of that matters. Do your own thing, figure out what you guys are both capable of and willing to do. I have had some of the best encounters with you, never, ever, ever penetrating anybody.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Absolutely. Well, and it that light or that that switch just flipped in me, and it went from being like the pleasing aspect of me to like where I crave it. Like I want it, I crave it, I need it.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

You're like, no, when he comes in here, the first thing I want to do is rip his rip his panties off.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

See those Victoria's secret sparkles and all that sexiness and that freaking sexy freaking thong and eat it.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Eat it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 32:04

And that's and that's how I feel. Absolutely. When you look good and you're just laying there on the bed and it's that freaking thong, and oh I can't we fight over who gets to do it first.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

We do. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 32:17

And that's why 69 exists.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

69.

SPEAKER_03 32:22

6'9, baby. Way better than 6'7, way before 6'7. It's the number that is this episode.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

Yeah, but it was it was just the slow progression from accepting accepting who I was as a sexual being, and then I don't know, just getting the trust and the safety and the thing because you can be a mom and suck a dick. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:46

We all did it before, we're all gonna do it after. It's it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

Getting back to my roots, getting back to our teenage selves, and that's what we really learned this past year, is that really we are reliving that we get to watch our kids have the same experiences and understand what they're going through because we were there when we were. We were there, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:07

We were there, we were progressing in our own sexual evolution, and there's nothing wrong with that. And the fact that people say that doing these things is immoral is part of the reason that we started doing this podcast. It just seems wrong.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

It is wrong, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:23

Oral sex is okay. Perform it on your partner today.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Dude, that could be a bumper sucker.

SPEAKER_03 33:29

Yeah, fuck a day. That rhyme too.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

That did. That did. So no longer are the mushrooms in the forest that I trip over. Like, I forage for those suckers.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

Dude, you're more like, what's that fucking mushroom or the cheese or whatever, the pigs? Truffles, though.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:46

You don't trip over mushrooms, you hunt truffles.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

I do, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:50

Yeah, that's a that's what you do now. That's the difference. And it's amazing. And you are like, you are on an aggressive hunt for truffles.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

Yeah, and I have sharpened my skills so much.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

I am on a very aggressive oyster clam clam dive. And I wouldn't change it for anything.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

No, I wouldn't either. No.

SPEAKER_03 34:12

I think this is a great place to end this.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 34:14

That's how we started, that's how we ended. This is where we're at today, and I hope maybe this has helped somebody.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Yeah, absolutely. And go out and forage, man.

SPEAKER_03 34:24

Go out and forage, and tell them next time we invite you guys to stay undressed.