Episode Seven: A Season to Sing, bubbles, and getting to the heart of Eurovision!

A special seventh edition of Moving Notes, as Jenn and Ben chat about how music brings us together and the emotion generated from all kinds of musical reinvention. 

The pair explore Joanna Forbes L’Estrange’s work, A Season to Sing (a choral reimagining of Vivaldi’s The Four Seasons). Joanna chat’s with Jenn about life in music and this work that's taking the world by storm, and Jenn and Ben get right to the heart of Eurovision… what it means on the night for the artists taking part, and where that journey can lead. 

Jenn shares a few of her own predictions for Eurovision 2026, as well as some of the songs to check out from previous years, and we hear from Cheryl Baker, part of UK winning legends, Bucks Fizz. 

Ben and Jenn chat more about the ways in which we listen to and experience music, the emotion it brings, and there may be mention of headdresses and hats with ears… but you’ll have to listen to discover what that’s all about! 

Your emails are shared too, and Ben chats more about a very special piece of music that he brought a new direction to. 

Plus, don’t miss a very special Eurovision edition of musical Guilty Pleasures! 

Happy listening! 

Moving Notes, exploring music and the heart that drives it. 

Follow us on Instagram: @movingnotespodcast

Get in touch: hello@movingnotespodcast.com

Transcript

Welcome to the pod

Speaker 1 0:05

Hello and welcome to Moving Notes, where we explore the impact music has on our lives and chat with all kinds of people to discover the emotion behind their connection with music. I'm Jenna Myles.

Speaker 2 0:24

And I'm Ben England, and it's great to have you back with us as we continue our journey through music and the heart that drives it.

Speaker 1 0:32

It's brilliant to be back, Ben. I mean, you'll have to excuse me a little bit. I've still got a hangover of a pretty awful cough. I know, but we've got a flurry of fab episodes on the horizon. We've got a wonderful chat with composer Joanna Forbes L'Estrange on the way today, as well as another little surprise. But before all that, I've got to ask you, what have you been up to? Have you been, Ben? It does feel like ages, I have to say.

Speaker 2 0:58

It's been a while, hasn't it, Jenn? But no, it's it's it's great to see you and and sorry your suffering. Um there's a lot of it about, but uh no, all all's good.

Ben's conductor's perspective as he prepares for live singing events across the UK

Speaker 2 1:07

Choir of the Earth have been busy this year. We had that bird massify voices and lots of very difficult notes with these Bach cantatas. And uh we've been working, speaking of Jo Forbes L'Estrange, of course, on her Season to Sing, which is a fabulous piece, and we'll talk about that a little bit later. And as always, I mean there's there's never a moment to stop when you run choirs because you're either dealing with past projects and we've been mixing the Mahler Symphony, which will be out soon, and we had that wonderful Haydn Harmony Mass, which we premiered just a couple of days ago as we record this. And uh we've been working on some of the projects that are kind of been in our our past and working on the current projects and then then planning stuff for the future. It will surprise nobody that as we sit here in May recording this podcast, I've got the Christmas projects on my desk ready to go and starting to look at stuff for next year and even the year after. So there's just always something to do when you run a choir.

Speaker 1 2:13

Well, absolutely, Ben, and I know that you're about to head off all over the country, aren't you? Yeah. Leading about some events as well, some singing events.

Speaker 2 2:22

Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, with with Choir of the Earth, we're we're doing a little mini tour. So I'll be heading up to York for a day up there at St. Olive's Church, and then we're heading down to Warrington a couple of days later, and then finishing off in Wimbledon, and we're doing the uh the Allegria Miserari as a come and sing, which you know, when I thought of it was just sort of, yeah, that sounds like fun. And and you know, the more I think of it, the more the date approaches, think how utterly mad to do the Allegria Miserari as a come and sing, you know. It's not Handels Massara, it's not Vivali's Glory, it's a really beautiful but very challenging piece with lots and lots of chanting and Latin and so on. But that's the lovely thing about our community. You know, I I I put this mad idea out there, and people went, that sounds like a laugh. I've not done that before. And so we've got loads of people signed up for these venues, and uh, we're gonna have a fabulous time. Even even that really high note in the allegory, we've got that covered.

Speaker 1 3:21

Yeah.

Speaker 2 3:22

We've we've got a professional soloist, a professional soprano booked for each of the venues, so uh all the sopranos can come along and and relax, knowing I'm not gonna ask them to sing the highest note in their range. It's it's gonna be fabulous.

Speaker 1 3:36

Oh, I love that, Ben. And and for you, you know, how how is it for you? Because I know you run the Bristol Cabot choir, but you also run Choir of the Earth, which is an online choir, primarily, although you have these events. How is it for you stepping into these face-to-face events, these in-person events? Is it something that you absolutely relish?

Speaker 2 3:55

Oh, absolutely. I mean it's it's it's a very different discipline to conducting online, particularly the way that that I teach, which I I still think is pretty much unique, which is to teach into a camera and not see or hear anyone who's singing along. So I'm always imagining and envisioning the choir as they're singing along at home. And it's that's uh that old idea of you know, never doubt that the people watching and listening are going to do what you ask. And so I'm always hearing them in my head as the best that they can be. And then you stand there in front of a room full of people and they're there. You you get that immediate feedback and that immediate response. And when you're hearing a choir singing in person, you can immediately say, Right, okay, this is how I can help, or you know, a bit more breath on this phrase, or let's make sure we're all coming off cleamy there at the end, and you get a real sense of momentum. I think the challenge is not getting too drawn in to you know, fixing every tiny little detail as you go, otherwise you're there all day just tinkering with it. You have far more of a sense of collaboration with these in-person events because it's right, you all know how it should sound. I'm gonna tell you what I want, so let's see if we can't meet somewhere in the middle. And I I've always compared conducting to driving a bus. Of course you have. I'm the bus driver. And if you think about it, there's a lot of uh a lot of comparisons. So I I'm at the front, I'm deciding you know where we're going and how fast. And and I set out, my job is to keep all the other people who are with me happy and safe. And uh, you know, if if anything goes awry and if if if something unexpected comes along, my job is to anticipate it and to navigate as smoothly around it. And uh, you know, in a concert setting, in a performance, um, there's a lot of of nervousness, you know, are we gonna get there safely? Are we gonna get there on time? Are we all gonna arrive together or are we gonna lose a couple of people at the at the rest stop? You know, and of course, everyone gets to the end safely, and everyone says, you know, cheers to the driver as they go. It's this, it's a it's a great fun job. And of course, then taking the same program from city to city as we do on these little tours. I mean, we've done Messiah and uh Mozart's Requiem and the Hyde and Harmony Mass and a few of these. What's lovely is seeing how the pieces inspire people in different places, and I mean there will be some wonderful, completely mad super fans who will come to each of these events one after the other, and basically follow me round. Oh wow. Um so there's a few you know familiar faces at each of these events, but a lot of the people will be just coming along for that one experience, and so it's about you know making the most of the space, uh of the crowd you've got in front of you, the choir for the day, um, and really building that bond very, very quickly so that when they start, from the moment in fact the choir is built at the very first breath they take together. That's the moment the choir is formed, and it's it's a magical moment, and any conductor worth their thought will will realize that that first moment of rapport where everyone breathes together with a purpose, it's it's yeah, it it's like forming a little mini company for the day, and we're going to work together, and our job is to guide each other and to produce a performance of this. And at the end we disband, but we always have that special experience together, and it's it's addictive. I think that's why people do follow us around and why they do come along to our events. And I mean I know there's lots of people coming along to these events who haven't sung with me before.

Speaker 1 7:45

Yes.

Speaker 2 7:46

And who maybe think this whole sing online thing's a bit weird and it's an a lockdown project that got out of hand. And actually what we find is that we end up bringing people into the world of online singing from having learnt this music online first. Right. What they think is it's a zoom choir. You know, that that you you see and hear everyone and there's lag and it's it's all a bit naff. And what they don't understand is the way we do it is it's intensive focused teaching which then produces a high quality outcome, whether that's a recording or as in the case of these sessions, it's a choir that comes together on the day, but most of the people there already know the music. That's unusual. That's special. And so what you get is far less of the sort of soul-destroying sitting there while the conductor works with another section, you're just bored. What you get is far more singing and then far more refining. It's a it's a fabulous, fabulous thing to do, and I'm really looking forward to it.

Speaker 1 8:50

So it's less bus and more executive coach!

Speaker 2 8:53

Love it. Yeah, absolutely. Very much so. Yeah, yeah, concierge service, yeah. But the the the five-star experience. Exactly. Definitely. Yeah, so I'm I'm looking forward to that. Lots of driving, lots of performing, and then we're into uh into the summer with Choir of the Earth, and we've got some fabulous pieces, some shorter pieces, and then the autumn in Leipzig, and it's it's gonna be fabulous. But uh yeah, enough about me. Jenn, how are you? What have you been

Jenn chats about her performance art and bubble guns!

Speaker 2 9:20

up to?

Speaker 1 9:20

Well, apart from being ill, yeah, I have been, Ben, taking to the catwalk dressed as a space bunny, yeah, complete with a bubble gun! And I know you've seen some photos of

Speaker 2 9:32

I've I've seen I've seen the photos. It's it's kind of hard to to explain this, but I'm I'm gonna ask you to describe the outfit.

Speaker 1 9:40

Yeah, it is a it is a bit difficult to explain. Well well, firstly, the why do I do this? I mean, I'm part of this art collective. We've chatted about it in previous podcasts, it's called Hatch. It's here in Somerset. So every year, artists create a costume and a character and a spoken word piece which is mixed in with our choice of music, and then ultimately each artist creates a performance to share on a runway at different venues. So this year the theme is the after party. So it's meant to be set at a party taking place after the last ever party in the world. So my performance, even though it doesn't look like it at first glance, was a bit of a unique commentary on gun crime and consumerism set to this 80s classic Absolute by Scritti Politti. So not something you see every day.

Speaker 2 10:32

No, no, niche!

Speaker 1 10:34

Yeah, very, very niche! And I mean, I think, you know, you start by thinking, okay, what weird or wonderful thing would you wear to the last party in the world? And so I started my creative thought process with well, obviously a a very big pair of pink bunny ears would be what I would wear to the last party in the world. And it kind of just developed from there, to be honest.

Speaker 2 10:58

And the bubble gun?

Speaker 1 10:59

The bubble gun. Well, I mean, this bubble gun is quite amazing. So, apart from the fact that I've painstakingly covered it in jewels, it fires out, you know, thousands and thousands of bubbles per minute. And so I wanted to kind of incorporate that in some way. And when I started thinking about the idea, that kind of linked in with this commentary on gun crime. Almost like, you know, this character turns up to a party with a gun that's about childlike fun. And if that had been the only one, perhaps the world would not be over and done as as my spoken word peace goes. So there's some method behind the madness, Ben!

Speaker 2 11:36

I'm very glad to hear that. I mean, you can't turn on the news these days without hearing about a brutal drive-by bubbling! It's, it's you know, it's got its finger very much on the pulse. I love it. It's totally mad and very, very on brand for someone who's such a fan of Eurovision.

Speaker 1 11:52

Yeah, well, just have that out there.

Speaker 2 11:54

And speaking of

Eurovision, music streaming, and how songs inspire us over the years

Speaker 2 11:55

which, now I will share with our listeners that uh we have this uh this WhatsApp group. Jenn, you're part of it, and myself and uh Nikki and Ana and Susanna. And uh well, let's just say last night, Ana and I were sitting having a nice quiet evening, and every couple of seconds our phones plural, but can you tell us why that was, Jenn?

Speaker 1 12:20

Well, Eurovision semi-final, Eurovision semi-final, Ben. I mean, I did start this off by posting a photo of Graeme and I dressed in our Eurovision costumes. I mean, it is like a second Christmas in our house, Eurovision. So we've got many a glitter ball hanging from the cottage beams at the moment. I mean, we have also been listening to Eurovision, the album, for the past month, so know every song already, for better or worse.

unknown 12:49

Moving notes, music, and the heart that drives it.

Speaker 1 12:56

It's interesting, Eurovision, isn't it? For me, it brings all the emotions. There are some cracking entries this year. There are also, you know, some interesting ones, of course. But it is it is an amazing show and as well, it's a real opportunity for artists. So, you know, you've got a global audience over 160 million. And what I think is really interesting about it, and I was looking at this yesterday, is often the songs that top the voting in the final aren't necessarily the ones that then go on to rack up the most streams on the likes of Spotify and other music streaming platforms as well. So, taking last year as an example, Ben, Portugal's entry was the band Napa with the song Deslocado. Now, this song finished 21st in the grand final, so it pretty much tanked with just 50 points.

Speaker 2 13:48

Right.

Speaker 1 13:48

But the song, it's a commentary, and it's a beautiful song, and it's about people's experiences and in many ways the sadness of students and workers who have to leave their home countries for for better opportunities elsewhere. And it was the most streamed Eurovision song of 2025, surpassing over 130 million streams.

Speaker 2 14:08

Goodness me. I mean, that is incredible. I mean that's approaching Moving Notes Podcast now, isn't it?

Speaker 1 14:14

If only Ben.

Speaker 2 14:17

Well no, yeah, that's that's that's that's fantastic. I mean, that again though, that shows the democratic effects of music streaming, doesn't it? And I know that that there's a lot of of downsides to streaming, particularly in how these how the artists get paid and the fractions and fractions of pennies and cents that get passed on. Indeed. That that as always is a uh you know, the funding is always the problem with these things, but the public will vote with their ears for what they like. And you think about uh, you know, decades ago when we were kids and all this was fields, um, and uh you know, you you could only listen to what was on the radio or what was in the shops. I still remember that moment when I was uh it was within the early 2000s when I first started teaching, and a whole load of my students I I I had a class of GCSE students, and I said to them, First thing I want you to do is bring in your favourite song or favorite piece of music and play it. And I was expecting what was in the charts at the time, so I was expecting you know Arctic monkeys and I was expecting you know big yellow taxi and all the rest. And what I got was one lad brought in a Frank Sinatra track and another lad brought in a 90, you know, brought in Deep Purple. And I was going, Wh where where did you guys hear all this? I said online. And I thought this is this is brilliant, this is something different. This is allows people to find it. It doesn't matter when it was recorded, doesn't matter whether it's you know brand new, came out last week or whether it's a hundred years old. If it's good, people will listen to it. And I think that what you just said about Portugal's entry, the uh democratic take on this is that ultimately the people will vote for what they like.

Speaker 1 16:03

Yeah, and it and in some ways, you know, I absolutely love that in terms of the connection with Eurovision because over the years it's become a real stage show. So a lot of it is about production, a lot of it is about how creatively it's interpreted on stage. And actually what this does is it takes it back to the purity of the song, yeah, which I absolutely love. So, you know, taking Portugal's entry, that staging wasn't the best. And one of the one of the reasons why it didn't do that well on the night, but the night is only the start of of the journey for the artist. So it's a really interesting way of looking at I think how we consume music after a big event like this and how how it's driven and how it's used on social media, because a lot of this is is driven through TikTok, to be fair.

Speaker 2 16:49

Yeah. And and really you're you're absolutely right to talk about the impact of music on the night, and then and then what, and then and then and then, because how we use music and how music has developed, I think, is is fascinating. I mean if we look back at the uh the the world of classical music, and I remember reading uh an historical account of a man in the nineteenth century who had heard all of Beethoven's symphonies one to nine a total of five times in his life, and he was considered to be, therefore, the world expert on Beethoven because he'd heard all nine symphonies in a a total of nine times. Because the only way you could hear these pieces was to go to a concert hall and hear them in person. And of course, if you once you heard it, you might go home with a couple of tunes in your head and composers deliberately composed music that would get stuck in your head. But if you wanted to hear it again, you'd have to wait until uh an orchestra played it again. And of course, if you lived miles from anywhere, chances are you'd never hear that piece of music again in your life. And you know, imagine that. Imagine that your favourite song, you could only ever in your life hear it once. Gosh, it's incredible, isn't it? It is. And then, of course, when recorded sound came along, this idea of capturing that lightning in a bottle, lots of people say, Oh, well, this is you know, it's terrible, it's awful, it's it's a flat representation. But of course, what it does is it gives us colour, it gives us opportunities. So you hear the recording, you then want to hear the piece live, and of course it always hits differently live. It's coming back to this idea of taking this music on tour. You can hear the music as a download, you can hear it on a tape, or you can hear it on a CD, we can hear it as an MP3, we can hear it in person, you can sing in it. Each way of interacting with the music changes you as a person. And every time you listen, whether it's your first or your 150 millionth time to that song from Portugal, you know, the song itself is the same, but you're different, aren't you?

Speaker 1 18:52

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I suppose as well, these songs become the soundtracks to our lives, don't they? And they signify the meaning and the the moments in our life when we interact with them in the different ways that you've mentioned.

Speaker 2 19:08

And as you listen to the pieces, you you go back in time to all the all the times you heard it and how that song might maybe was the soundtrack to a difficult part in your life, but it helped you through it, or maybe it's uh it was what was playing in the car in those halcyon days uh of of sunshine and and summers. Yeah, it's very

A Season to Sing by Joanna Forbes L'Estrange - Ben and Jenn introduce the work and the composer

Speaker 2 19:28

special. I mean that this is why I think this fabulous piece by Jo Forbe s L'E strange that we've been doing is so clever, because it takes a piece like Vivaldi's four seasons, which is so well known and so iconic and so kind of entrenched in our society. I mean it's been in so many films and TV shows and and TV adverts and and she manages to find a way to bring it to people in a new form and really brings it to life for the 21st century. It's very special, isn't it?

Speaker 1 20:01

Absolutely. It r it really is a very, very special piece. And I've been catching up with Joanna Forbes Lestrange. Well, she's a composer, she's a singer. I mean, you know her really well, Ben, don't you? Tell us a little bit about what you think makes Jo so special and her work so special.

Speaker 2 20:18

Jo is well, I mean, the the the word that keeps coming up when people talk about Jo is sunshine. She radiates joy uh in in musical form but also in her personality. She she comes across uh as so happy uh to be a singer, to be making music. Now, of course, her background is fascinating, and uh, you know, I'm sure she'll tell us all a bit more as uh she speaks to you, but her her work as a professional singer has taken her all around the world. Her time as the musical director of the Swingle Singers, which is this uh this very famous a cappella group founded by Ward Swingle in the 1960s, and she ran the group for for many years, gave her an insight into not just how a single voice works, but how multiple voices can come together to create texture. And you as an artist, I think, will appreciate if each voice is a colour, how those colours can be blended and how different colours can then create impressions, and those impressions can leave an emotional mark on somebody. And so Jo's power, I think, has been as a singer to touch so many audiences as a professional singer. She regularly records for film soundtracks and TV shows. So you'll have heard her voice, sometimes used in the very ethereal way, singing, talking about the soundtracks of our lives on so many massive motion pictures and TV shows and commercials. And of course, she's worked for power of the earth, she's led a number of core. For us and with us over the years. And when she reached out to me last year and said, Look, I've I've made this piece. I've I've taken Vivaldi's four seasons and I've added choral lines. I've not changed Vivaldi's music, but what I've done is I have adapted it and reworked it so that choirs can sing and create something new with this. And of course, the she sent me a score and I looked and it went, That's genius. And the more I work with it, the more I've been teaching it to choirs both in person and online, the more I'm convinced it is the perfect piece for our times. Because it takes something ancient, hundreds of years old, that has stood the test of time. It's probably up well, it is up there in the in the top five recorded classical works of all time. And she's done something that no one else could have done. She's brought her unique experience as a singer, as a composer, as an arranger, as somebody who has a a deep faith, as somebody who has a a real understanding of how choirs work, and she's written a piece that has a universal appeal, like that Portugal entry from Eurovision. You know, some people the the Dyed in the wool classical snobs will look oh it's a bit populist, isn't it? But do you know what? If if people Google this piece and just look at how many concerts are taking place and how many are booked to take place and how many performances there are of this going on around the world right now, this is going viral. This is the big piece that everyone wants to do. And it's own only Joe could have come up with this.

Speaker 1 23:44

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It is it is

Joanna chats with Jenna

Speaker 1 23:47

fantastic. Well, let's hear from Jo as I caught up with her about how she got into music, some of the highlights of an incredible career so far as you've outlined, Ben, and the global phenomenon that is her choral reimagining of Vivaldi's The Four Seasons and the emotion within it. Joanna, tell us when you first fell in love with music because music was all around you when you were growing up, wasn't it?

Speaker 3 24:56

Yeah, yeah. Oh, I was very little. So I come from a really big musical family. But interestingly, I didn't grow up with my family, so you know, a lot of it is definitely nature rather than nurture. But when I was very little and my parents were still together and I was still living with my parents, my dad played me a lot of music and took us to concerts, proms in particular. And then when I was about eight, I joined the local Paris church choir. And I think it was that that was the real light bulb moment, you know, of kind of wow. And it wasn't a brilliant choir by any stretch of the imagination, it was very small and very limited repertoire, but nonetheless, that experience of singing alongside other people and creating harmonies with our voices was just kind of mind-blowing to me. And I think from then on I was kind of hooked. Yeah.

Speaker 1 25:52

Yeah, amazing. And how did things progress for you, Joanna, after that incredible experience in the choir?

Speaker 3 26:00

Well, I stayed singing with that choir right up until I went to university. You know, there wasn't a choir at my school, you know. I I just went to the local comprehensive and there wasn't that much music going on. Um, although the head of music was an amazing guy and really doing his best. But you know, it was a lot of people standing at keyboards looking moody, and it wasn't really like, you know, the kind of school where you have a choir. So I kept singing in my choir and I kept playing my cello in the county youth orchestra and things like that, you know, and did all my grades like a good girl and all of that. But when I got to university and I went to Oxford University to do music, I suddenly found myself surrounded by all these incredible musical experiences and opportunities and people uh who was uh kind of as nuts about music as as I was. And so I joined a choir. I literally auditioned for Scholar Cantorum of Oxford because it had a Latin name, and I thought, I'm in Oxford. I should be singing in a choir with a Latin name. That was so exotic. Um and I went and did this audition, and it was quite funny actually, because the chap auditioning me said, you know, so what have you done before? Have you done NYC, which was National Youth Choir? And I went, um, no. And he said, Have you done have you done Eaton Choral courses? I mean, it wouldn't be allowed now, would it? Eaton choral books, and I said, No. He said, Well, sort of, what have you done? School choir? And I went, no. And I thought, oh God, what am I doing here? But I knew I could sing and also I knew I could site read, you know, I could pick up a piece of music and sing it because you know I come from this musical family. So I thought, well, you know, it's a bit embarrassing, but I'll give it a go. And I got in.

Speaker 1 27:38

Yay!

Speaker 3 27:38

Yeah, exactly. Yay. That kind of changed everything because after that, you know, I was making CDs and I was singing in this choir for the next three years and touring, you know, we went to Japan. I mean, you know, I went, God. So that really 18 to 21, that kind of solidified for me that oh my goodness me, singing in choirs is really where it's at. And it's funny because although I was also beginning to pick up a little bit of solo jobs here and there, you know, I never loved it in the same way that I love singing in choirs. So then after that, I got a job with the swingle singer as well as I did.

Speaker 1 28:14

You did!

Speaker 3 28:15

Oh my goodness, you know. So suddenly, after three years of being a school teacher, so yeah, it wasn't immediately, I did a I was, you know, did my teaching year, and then I did three years as a teacher because the whole thing was you needed to have something to fall back on, because clearly being a singer was not going to work, and then one day you'd see sense and you'd come back to teaching. So that was the big grand plan. Um, so I did that, but then this job with the swingle singers came up, and honestly, it was so serendipitous looking back. You know, I'd gone up to Edinburgh Festival that summer, summer of 97, to support my husband, my new, you know, we'd just got married to support my husband because he was doing a show up there. And I heard on the radio the swingle singers were doing a show, a radio show, like a lunchtime thing, and there was going to be a live audience and you could go along. And I thought, swinglesingers, you know, my mum knew the swinglesinger, you know, she had their records from the 60s. So I thought, well, I'd go along, you know. And I sat there and I just thought, oh my god, I want to do this. Because it was that combination of choral music, but jazz and like all the stuff that I was into, and singing in the way that I like to sing, which is kind of really blendy and not kind of but more like and I thought, this is me. And then, you know, lo and behold, I mean, literally sounds like I'm making this up, but literally got home from that trip. And the swingle singers had advertised for a soprano in Singer magazine, and I was like, oh. So I went for that interview, audition, three auditions, got that job, and it changed my life because suddenly I was on the road, you know, for the next seven years, I was touring the world with these seven other singers, and I ran the group and oh my goodness, it changed my life. And while I was doing that, I was doing other choirs like Tenebrae and Tonits Peregrinus, this other kind of quirky group that I've been part of for 35 years, and you know, really everything led from that. And I left the swingles 20 years ago, but it still feels like such an amazing part of my career. It's kind of fed into everything else that I do. So yeah, that's that's how it happened, really. And a lot of being in the right place at the right time, and yeah, now I see it looking back as trusting the universe that the universe has a plan. I didn't really get that then. I just thought, oh, that was lucky, oh my god, and now, you know, with the benefit of hindsight and being in my mid-50s and looking back and going, you know, that was all meant to be. Yeah.

Speaker 1 30:39

To me, it sounds, it sounds absolutely spot on, I have to say. I mean, you've had these incredible experiences, these incredible moments, these magical moments, really. And you've achieved so, so much. I mean, you're also made an honorary fellow of the Royal School of Church Music, which is incredible. You even judge Singh Ultimate Acapella on Sky. I'd forgot about that.

Speaker 3 31:03

That was fun because oh my goodness, having your makeup done professionally every day. You look in the mirror and you go, Is that me? You know, that was so amazing and meeting all those amazing groups and I loved that job. But yeah, the Royal School of Church Music thing, that was a really kind of left field gear change I was not expecting. But my foster father, who brought me up, he's sad he died now, but he he was a really interesting guy, you know. Not he wouldn't say he was a musician, he was an amateur singer. He sang in the church choir with us. You know, he worked in a factory. I mean, he was just like a really kind of like jolly, funny, big guy, you know, very different from my family that's all kind of very sort of, you know, high-achieving, quite serious people, you know. He was just like a rig burdy guy. Anyway, he said to me years ago, and I was in my 30s, he said, I want you to write a piece of music for the choir. And I was like, What do you mean? I'm not a I'm not a composer. And he said, I think you probably are. And I just thought he'd slightly lost his mind, you know, because my dad's a composer, quite a well-known one, and you know, and I just thought, What was he why is he asking me to write a piece? Anyway, so I did, and everything started from there because I sent that piece to the Royal School of Church music, and they went, What else have you got? And um, you know, I thought, well, uh, nothing yet. Nothing yet. Nothing yet. But I started writing, and now, you know, now composing is a huge part of my life. I mean, singing will always be and conducting choirs and all of that, but composing, you know, and I think because as a composer, your name is on things, whereas as a singer, you know, unless they list all the members of the choir, it's really about the name of the choir, not about you. Yes. So it still amazes me when I see people now and they go, Oh yeah, you're the composer. And I go, Oh, well, I mean, yeah. And that's how they know me because my name's in print on these things. And that's been an amazing journey. You know, it came much later to me really than singing, but they say, you know, it's never too late. Absolutely. Amazing that your foster father saw that in you. I know, and my dad didn't. But then you see, my dad's an interesting one. He's one of those, you know, you would say neurodivergent these days, like a very brilliant man. God, like a walking encyclopedia of music, but uh not necessarily, you know, I'm trying to say this in a kind way because you know he's a well-meaning man, but there's no way on earth that he was ever gonna say, Oh, I think, you know, you might be a composer. This this wouldn't even occur to him. Whereas, you know, as I say, Richard, he was much more, yeah, well, I think you should, you know. So do it. Oh, all right. Um you know, he used to phone me up, and the beginning of every conversation was, Hello, what's your writing? And I go, Oh and if I didn't have a particular piece on the go, he'd go, Why not? Why aren't you writing? Come on, get writing. Honestly, I owe that man everything. And if he had been there to see me receive my Royal School of Church Music fellowship, he would have or he would have just been bursting with pride. He wouldn't have said it. He would have gone, yeah, well, told you. But you know, it really it all started with him and and and to think that the reasons that they gave in the speech for giving me me that honour was because my music is reaching a wide audience, not just in terms of geographically, but in terms of, you know, I write, hopefully, this is my aim anyway, write the kind of music that reaches lots of different types of singers, people who wouldn't think they were singers necessarily, or people who think they're not into new music, or I my favourite thing is when people come up to me and go, I love singing your whatever piece, because it's just feels so nice to sing. And I kind of think, well, yeah, because I write the kind of music I would like to sing.

Speaker 1 34:46

Yes.

Speaker 3 34:47

And I think maybe a lot of composers write very impressive. I mean, I sing a lot of very impressive, difficult music, but that's not what I want to write. You know, I don't, I'm not looking to win um awards for being groundbreaking. I just want to write nice music.

Speaker 1 35:01

Yeah. And it is lovely, and I can hear, you know, and see the joy in you when you talk about that, which is so, so beautiful to see. Oh. Let's chat about a season to sing because it is your revolutionary choral, reimagining of Vivaldi's four seasons. I mean, it has become quickly a global phenomenon. Just tell us about how that came about for you.

Speaker 3 35:35

Yeah, that came about because the Royal School of Church Music said, Would you write a 40-minute piece? And I was like, Whoa, you know, okay, because I've only written pieces up to, you know, five minutes, ten minutes, you know. I've done a lot of collaborations with my husband of of 40-minute pieces, but this was my first me being asked to write a full-sized half a concert, effectively. I said, Does it need to be churchy? You know, because it's the rock sort of church music. And I love writing church music, but they said, no, not not wholly, because what we want this piece to do is to have a really wide reach. So not just church choirs, but maybe with a churchy element. So I was kind of mulling it over and thinking, what are the things that everybody can relate to? You know, there's there's love, there's loss, there's nature, there's the seasons, and I was thinking, yeah, seasons, seasons, seasons, seasons. Start doing a bit of googling. And then Vivaldi Four Seasons obviously pops up and it was published in 1725. And I was like, you're kidding me, because this piece had to be ready for 2025. So we're talking 300 years. So I thought, well, I need to do a choir version of the four seasons. You know, when you're so everybody sings along to the four seasons, don't they? Because everyone knows it on the radio, and you're like, You've got no words. And I've always done that, and I've always thought, you know, God, wouldn't it be fun if it was like a choir piece? Anyway, so obviously, the more I thought about it, the more I just thought, I want to do this, you know. And also it's a piece I knew from my childhood, like so many of us do. But you know, my my dad had an LP and he'd played it to me, and I remember learning to beat time to that piece because he taught me 2-4, 3-4, 4-4 using those those movements from the Vivaldi. So it was a slightly sad story, actually, in some ways, because uh my husband had turned 50 that that same year, so talking three years ago now, and we had planned to go to Venice for three days together to celebrate his 50th week, books the whole trip. And then our son fell ill, like seriously ill, very, very ill, had to go to hospital. We tried to move the trip, tried to get a refund for the trip. We couldn't do any we could, it was fixed. And so I said, Well, what are we gonna do? I said, Why don't you go on the trip on your own and I'll stay with our son? He said, No, and why don't you go on the trip on your own and I'll stay with our son? I said, Well, that's a bit weird because it's your birthday. It's your birthday trip, not mine. He said, Yeah, but you've had this idea for the Vivaldi. So why don't we just reframe it and say, it's not a holiday, it's a work trip. You go on it, you go and get inspiration. Anyway, it was obviously, can you imagine? It's heartbreaking leaving my son behind. But my husband's an amazing dad to them. So I went. And the first thing I did was went to Vivaldi's church and managed to get a return ticket to see the Four Seasons concert that night because they do it pretty much every night.

Speaker 1 38:31

Wow.

Speaker 3 38:32

And I sat back with my school on my lap that I brought with me, and I was quite tearful actually here. I remember being quite welled up because I didn't know which head I had on. I was thinking about my son, I was thinking about the fact that my husband should be there. But I was trying to get into sort of work mode, writing in creative mode. Anyway, the power of music and all that because it was the music started up, and they do a kind of light show with it, so each season has its own lighting colour. And it started up, and I just thought, oh my goodness, it was such an amazing moment. And I was scribbling words all over my school and realizing it was gonna work, and came back three days later and basically just you know what it's like when you get an idea and you can't stop doing it head down. And I was just going through Bible verses, poetry, hymns, and just fitting the words to the music, and it was such a weird process because normally everything I had written up until now, I wrote the words first, because I love writing words, or I was given words and asked to write music to the words. So you're always like, here's how the words go. This would be the music that would fit that. And this was like a total other way around, you know, had the music already, and everyone knows the music. So couldn't you don't want to mess it up, you know. You definitely don't. Had to do a few cuts here and there, but you know, it's sacrosanct, it's the Vivaldi. I want to keep the keys the same, I want to keep the structure the same, I want to be so true to this incredible piece. So I didn't want to sound like I was shoehorning text in so that people would sing it going, oh god, that's a bit it meant so much to me that that the words sounded almost as if they might have been conceived along with the music. You know, that was the challenge I gave myself. And golly, I loved it. And the reaction I've had. So the reason that all these choirs did it last year was because in order to fund the commission, I thought, well, people crowdfund. I've never done it before, but that's what they do. Yeah. So why don't I crowdfund this commission? Why don't I say it's 300 years since the Valdi was composed? So does your choir want to put 300 pounds towards this 300-year-old piece? And by doing so, you have ownership of this piece. Only you can perform it in the first year. You get me giving you all the learning resources for free. You get, you know, a question and answer session with me in your choir. I'll come along and I'll work on well on the piece with you. You'll get your name in the score as being the reason that the piece came about. I was just racking my brains because I'd never done this before. And I thought, oh, you know, I hope they go for I hope some choirs go for this. No idea if this is like totally random, especially since a lot of the choirs didn't know me and I was just this woman writing, going, I haven't written it yet, but can you give me 300 pounds? Blowed me down. 55 choirs. Yeah, cool. And these were choirs in America, all around the UK, Australia, South Africa, a choir in Vietnam. I mean, it was bonkers. So suddenly I thought, right, I can do this, I can spend the best part of six months to eight months writing this piece. Actually, it was nine months in the end, the same time it took me to grow my babies. Um like my third baby. Exactly. And so it all happened. And so those choirs, because because the RSEM didn't officially publish the piece until the following year, only those choirs were able to do it. And they were like, Well, yeah, sure, we'll do it. Um and then it was lovely because some of them, like the choir in Sydney, said, Well, do you want to come and conduct it? And I was like, Yeah.

Speaker 1 42:14

That's incredible.

Speaker 3 42:15

I would love that, you know. But I was like, I'm just uh impoverished musician living in London. I can't afford they said, Look, we'll pay your flights, you know. Just if you if you just come out and conduct it, we'll cover your flights. I was like So the next thing I know, this time last year, almost to the day, I was standing on stage at Sydney Opera House conducting a season to sing.

Speaker 1 42:38

I mean, that's incredible. I'm getting goosebumps hearing you say that.

Speaker 3 42:42

It's crazy. It's crazy. And then I went to South Africa, and then I went to San Diego. Honestly, last year we had a year of sun, and what was really funny was the winter movements. I got them, you know, the choir has to shiver as well as sing and kind of go, like it's malady music, but they're like shivering. And I see these sunny places in winter going, yeah. So imagine like how it feels to be cold, and they're like, Okay, never really felt cold before. You need to use your Imagination here. Like, imagine you're really cold, and they're literally going, Okay, yeah. These Californians, there only no sunshine. Oh, so funny. But yeah, it was really lovely. And you know, lots of performances the following year as well, and this year. And so I feel like it must be, you know, doing its job. It must be kind of making people happy. I only had one negative comment, and it was from a reviewer, and she said, Did you feel that the Vivaldi was kind of not good enough as it was that it needed words? Like, what a strange comment. My mind blew. And I said, No. And what I said to her was I I think of it more like a film director reading a novel and going, This novel is so amazing. I've got to turn it into a film. At no point is somebody gonna say to that person, Did you feel the novel was a bit not quite, you know, needed to be a film? It's the opposite, isn't it? It's like you won't even turn a novel into a film if the if the novel has gone, oh my goodness. That's how I felt about Vivaldi. And actually, what's really lovely is that Vivaldi wrote sonnets in Italian to describe his friend's series of Italian landscapes that his friend Marco Ricci had painted, and the picture is on the on the front of the vocal score, so that's one of the pictures. So it started out as a painting. Well, it started out as the beauty of nature, which is a creation in itself, which became a series of paintings, which became Vivaldi's sonnets, which became Vivaldi's violin concertos, which became my choral piece. So, you know, where is it gonna go next? Maybe somebody will want to stage the choral piece and add ballet dances. I just think that's the great thing about art. It just it just keeps on growing. And I think, you know, anybody who thinks that the Vivaldi four seasons is so perfect, it shouldn't be tampered with. I don't think that's how it works. No, I agree. Other than that, everybody who said nice things said that's all right.

Speaker 1 46:09

Fantastic. And like exactly as you say it is, isn't it? It's about taking it in a different direction, in a new direction, of breathing more excitement into it and giving people the opportunity to discover it in a different way.

Speaker 3 46:24

That's the thing I think that's the thing that I've been most excited about it because up until now, unless you play a string instrument and unless you're really brilliant at the violin, you're never gonna get a chance to play this music. You know, you can hear it and you can watch other people play it. But one um singer, lovely lady in the Sydney Philharmonia choirs, she looks like she was kind of in her 70s or whatever. She'd been singing all her life, she was a retired English professor. She said, What you've done is you have opened up this music for the whole world to take part in it. Not just string players. You know, now we can all experience what it feels like to perform the four seasons. And I just thought, that's so nice.

Speaker 1 47:08

Isn't it? How lovely.

Speaker 3 47:10

Most people can sing, and even if they think they're not brilliant at it, I've written it so that even people who think they don't really know how to sing, they can do this, they can join in. Yeah. Um, and and so it's kind of got this nice global reach, this nice kind of inclusivity, which I hope that if Vivaldi were alive today, might go, Yeah, cool.

Speaker 1 47:31

I'm sure he would, and I'm sure he'd shiver along as well. Yeah, exactly. I have to say, like, four seasons is my absolute favourite without sounding totally bonkers. I always have it on in my greenhouse, and my seedlings definitely respond to it. Honestly, I will swear that is the truth. That's amazing.

Speaker 3 47:53

It's not absolutely crazy things happen in this life that I'm fully prepared to believe that. I mean, slight tangent now, but a previous trip, my husband and I went, because he's really into wine, and we went to visit a vineyard in um Alsace in northeast France. And it that was for his fourth year. Okay, so this was a previous trip. And we went with a bunch of singing friends, and we said to the guy who whose vineyard it was, can we sing to the vines? You know, this sing some French medieval music to your French medieval vine, thinking he'd be like, you know, like Libonkers. Oh no, he said, Oh, I play music to them all the time. Yeah. Um, and in fact, I have uh he said I have one uh thing of wine that I play music to and one that I don't as an experiment to see which tastes better.

Speaker 1 48:42

I absolutely love it.

Speaker 3 48:44

I think music and nature are intrinsically linked, and so I love that. I think that's great.

Speaker 1 48:49

Oh, that is incredible that that happened as well. Absolutely love this. Yeah for you, Joanna, when you were at the Sydney Opera House, I mean that was the Australian premiere. How did you feel about to conduct this piece that you've created?

Speaker 3 49:06

It was it was like nothing else. Because I'm used to walking out on stage as a singer and I get a lovely adrenaline rush and I love watching an audience as I sing. But conducting is so different because you walk out and smile and then you turn your back on them. So actually it's communication in a completely different way because all they can see is the back of your head. But then you've got these, you know, there are about a hundred singers in front of me who could be seen by the audience. So it was my job to make them able to communicate to that way, since I wasn't able to. And that was thrilling because choirs mimic your face and your gestures and and your your mood, you know, your whole vibe. So if you're like that with a choir, they go, you know, and so that's what they were doing, and that was so exciting for me, and I just couldn't stop grinning all the way through. I mean, you know, there are it's mostly a happy piece, but there are a couple of moments that are quite solemn. I couldn't stop grinning. It was so extraordinary. And I don't know if you've ever seen the inside of the Sydney Opera House, but it's future pink lighting and chairs, so it's really vibrant, and I had the organist was kind of a mile away in an organ loft up there somewhere, so I was kind of conducting him as well, and then all these amazing singers who were just beaming. And when I turned round at the end and saw all those audience members clapping and standing, there was this standing ovation. I was just completely overwhelmed. And I took my bow and I just thought, would I ever feel as extraordinary as this again? You know, it was just it was out of this world. Make a joyful noise to the Lord all he lands, make a joyful noise a joyful noise to the Lord all he lands, Praise him upon the trumpet, praise him upon the timbre, praise him upon the organ, praising upon the symbol, make a joyful noise to the Lord all he lands. I'll literally never forget it. And they had some amazing whistlers. So in the middle of the spring season, Vivaldi wrote a bird song chorus depicted in strings. So you've got played them on the violins. So I thought, well, I'm gonna get them whistling it because then it sounds like birds. Yes. And most choirs that have done that section have kind of gone, Oh, we haven't got great whistlers in our choir. So and I said it's fine because all of the notes are in the organ part, so just whistle along a bit and the audience will get the effect. Oh yeah, bird song. Sydney Opera House choir, they were like, We don't need the organ to play because we got whistlers in our Wow. They whistled the whole birdsong chorus, a cappella. Oh my gosh. It was so cool, and um, you know, the audience kind of had this lovely ripple of laughter going through it after they had finished it and they came back in with the words again, and the organ came back in. But it was really cool. And afterwards, I was speaking to a guy in the choir, and he'd been one of the chief whistlers, you know, and he said, That was one of the highlights of my life.

Speaker 1 52:26

That is amazing. Wow, gosh, I'm a terrible whistler, but that sounds incredible.

Speaker 3 52:31

I literally can't go, I can't get a note out. So, you know, totally put my hats off to them. It was amazing, it was so cool.

Speaker 1 52:39

Wow, it sounds very, very cool. I mean, what do you think some of the most exciting things are about this piece for singers approaching a season to sing for the very first time, apart from the whistling.

Speaker 3 53:09

Yeah, I think the most exciting element is the fact that they already know the tunes. And I've worked with choirs who think they don't know, well, I don't really know about classical music, or I don't really know the four seasons. And then they start doing, oh well, I know this. Well, this is the four seasons. Oh, I know this bit as well. Oh my god, so there's this lovely familiarity before they've already started, which reminds me of the early swingle singers in the 1960s who took music by Bach, Handel, the Valde, whatever that people already knew but sang it. You know, they did it with jazz scats, you know, bum bum dun dun rather than actual lyrics. But even so the effect was the same that people would hear their music and go, I know this, but they've never heard it sung before. And that's what's happened with this piece. So there's that. There's also the fact that, you know, apart from the whistling, there are other fun things in it, like the shivering in the winter. In summer, there's a summer storm, which Vivaldi depicts with this kind of dramatic, like So I've put all of that, because it's impossible to sing that really, I've put that in the organ part while the choir does this effect with their body percussion. So they put their scores down and they create the sound of a storm with these movements, which when you layer them up sound amazing. So the audience gets the effect of this is the storm. Creating that bagpipe sound. Fi by si to you know, in amongst all the kind of more lyrical singing with actual words and traditional singing, there's this kind of fun stuff as well, which, you know, even the most serious of choirs have loved. Some some choirs have their kind of we're singing classical music faces on, and they need a bit more nurture to to relax, you know, but then they've got it and they've gone, this is such fun. Everyone knows it, everyone loves it. It's like never you never heard it like this before, but it's still Vivaldi's music.

Speaker 1 56:24

Yeah.

Speaker 3 56:24

So yeah, so I think that's what people like about it, the kind of familiarity and the chance to be a bit silly and have fun with it. And then the first movement and the last movement are actually my music, but I wrote it to compliment Vivaldi's music. And I set, do you know that um passage from Ecclesiastes to everything there is a season, yeah, a time to be born, a time to die, and so on. So what I did was I set the first four verses for the beginning of the of a season to sing, and the last four verses for the end of a season to sing, and the last four verses end with a time of peace. And I thought, well, that's perfect, because we're living in this terribly terrifying world with lots of conflict everywhere. So the whole piece ends with peace, a time of peace, and when we reach that accord just before the final page, and it's got a pause on it, to contemplate peace. So I think all as well as it being kind of jolly and entertaining and all of that, there is a more serious message. And at the very back of the music, there was a spare blank page. And so my publisher said, you know, what do you want to put on the spare blank page? And so I said, How about this? A time of war, no more. Donna no bisparchem. Because that's what those are the words of the of the end of the piece. And you just feel like maybe if enough choirs sing it and see it and it ripples outwards, it's kind of, you know, a way of trying to make a difference in the world. Yes, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 57:58

It's incredibly heartfelt, and and as you say, of of its time as well. The time is definitely right for that kind of message, isn't it? Absolutely.

Speaker 3 58:08

I think so. I think I think it feels like that. And actually, Ben England, the amazing um founder and director of Choir of the Earth, you know him very well. He said something so nice when I was asking various people if they wouldn't mind saying to camera what they felt that was good about the piece. And he said, This is a piece very much of its time, and I think it's gonna go up like a rocket, which I thought was so lovely because he said, you know, we need this now. This has happened at the right moment. And that and I'm just shivering, actually, remembering him say that because it just meant such a lot. You know, he could have said, Yeah, it's nice, it's a nice piece, yeah. People should do it with their choir, but what he said felt much more profound.

unknown 59:10

And a time to every cast, a time to cast away storms, and the time to gather storms together, the time to pray, and the time to refrain from embraces, a time to give time to time, and the time to sleep, it's time to sleep, it's time to keep and it's time to so it's time to keep silence, and it's time to speak to me, and it's fine to freeze.

Ben and Jenn respond to the chat with Joanna Forbes L'Estrange and explore how music like this brings us all together

Speaker 1 1:01:25

To conclude that wonderful conversation with Joanna Forbes Lestrange, a fascinating chat, and as Joanna said herself, Ben, more profound words from you.

Speaker 2 1:01:36

As I said, she's just she's so sunny, so much joy, and such an interesting person. And and I've always said with composers, they put so much of themselves into their music, and it's quite something for Jo to take her huge experience as a composer and to put it in with Vivaldi's music. Some people might say it's it's hard to say, but it does enhance Vivaldi's music. It's it's like taking a piece of furniture that has a huge amount of history. Um it's like taking an old church pew, perhaps, that's been sat in someone's garden, has been overgrown and so on. And it needs a bit of a sand and a bit of a renovate.

Speaker 1 1:02:18

And jump in here. I've got some old basically I've got some old church pews in my garden that ha that have yeah, that are in desperate need of a sand and a renovate. They've been disintegrating for ten years. So I get the analogy.

Speaker 2 1:02:36

A home a home for snails and and but but you take something that is so uh so clearly historical and you you renovate it in a way that is sensitive and that that respects you know what what was there before, but does it in a way that people look at it and go, I see what this was, I see what this is, I appreciate the the melding of the two. It it's a new form of the artwork. And uh, you know, just calling back to to you, you know, no, it's no space bunny, but you know, maybe maybe one day. I I think it's a it's a fabulous piece and I do commend it to anyone who is looking for something that will that will inspire an audience, that will definitely inspire a choir. You know, the the the choirs that I've worked with on this piece, they have all first of all completely understood the brief, that it's not a stuck-up hoe faced traditional choral piece. There's nothing wrong with that, but from time to time you need to do something that is just going to entertain your audience, it's gonna raise a smile, it's even gonna raise a couple of chuckles at some of the stuff in this because there's body percussion, the basses and tenors have to be bagpipes at one point, and it's not subtle, you know. It's it it really is very silly. At the end of the winter freeze movement, everyone it's written in the score, everyone has to go and shut so all of these kind of special vocal effects that you don't see in traditional choral music are here, and it just brings together so many different strands. You know, it it is in a way, you know, it ties back beautifully to Eurovision because what you've got is you've got really good music, you've got fun for everyone, and you've got some extra little bits of you know bedazzlements in the form of these special effects that will mean as people drive home afterwards, they travel home from the concert, they'll all be talking about it. What did you do? Wasn't that just brilliant fun? Wasn't that great? And it it brings everyone together, like Guru Vision, in a way that you know it takes your mind off what's going on in the world, and you can put aside you know the the the stresses and tribulations of our troubled world and just enjoy fabulous music and a good old laugh.

Speaker 1 1:05:07

Yeah, yeah, absolutely,

More Eurovision... and hats!

Speaker 1 1:05:09

absolutely. I love the way that you've nicely brought it back round to Eurovision.

Speaker 2 1:05:15

Can't get away from it these days. My phone is just full of notifications from this mad team, just sharing. I have to say, because we mentioned earlier on your your bunny costume with the massive ears, that this Eurovision costume of yours, there's a bit of a theme of ears.

Speaker 1 1:05:31

Well, yeah, to be fair, that's not my fault. That is the fault of Akylus from Greece, who's the performer for Greece this year with his song Feto. Now, he I don't know if you've seen him on the Eurovision semi final. He's incredible. He has a real thing for hats with ears. So a lot of his costume is themed around a tiger and cats. So his hats have these little cat ears on them, and and yesterday I did. Send round a photo of me and my husband Graham in our little hats with cat ears. So blame Grease for that one.

Speaker 2 1:06:08

Let's just say though they were pushing on an open door, weren't they, Jen? It's not as if we were like, oh no, I've got to wear it.

Speaker 1 1:06:18

No, Greece is absolutely one of my favourites this year. It's mad and it's crazy, but it is, yeah. It does get stuck in your head. It does get stuck in your head, and I think it's gonna do pretty well on Saturday, but we will we will see. Moving notes. Exploring the emotion behind the music.

Jenna's Eurovision predictions - which song will win hearts on the night and after the contest?

Speaker 2 1:06:40

And what do you think? I'm gonna put you on the spot. I have to have to confess, and I've said before, I I I am an admirer of the idea of Eurovision, but I have not uh not partaken this year as yet. But speaking of that Portugal entry, what's your gut feeling as a very experienced broadcaster and as a player, a jockey of the discs? What do you think might be up there in terms of the stream? Regardless of what's going to win, what do you think will win the people's hearts this year?

Speaker 1 1:07:09

Oh, it's really, really difficult this. I know. Yeah, really difficult. Well, it's hard because back in 2022, there was a song called Snap by Rosa Lynn. It didn't do brilliantly in the contest, but it has gone on to become one of the most streamed Eurovision songs of all time. We are talking in the billions of streams. I mean, I liked it at the time, but I don't think anybody could have predicted that that would be one of the most popular Eurovision songs ever. And it is, it's quite difficult this year, I think, because we've got so so Fertole, which we were just talking about, the Greek entry, that is a kind of novelty entry, like the UK's is this year, really, with our Eins Phi Dry. And I will say this, I don't think it's going to do very well on the night. Right. And it's a shame because I love Sam and I'd love to get him on the pod, because he's a really interesting character. He's created a little museum in Ramsgate, Kent, in the UK, celebrating obsolete and experimental technology. And what I love about what I've seen of it is he takes these weird 80s things and he creates musical instruments out of them. He's got an organ made out of Furby's the 80s toys. He's a fascinating character. He's done an incredible job with a song that's very different for the UK this year, but I don't think we're gonna do that well on the night, but I really, really hope I'm I'm proved wrong. So Ferto could do well, but I think it'll do well on the night. I mean, I actually like this year, which is a real sort of left field one to talk about. But Luxembourg's entry. Okay. It's by a lady called Eva Maria, and it's a song called Mother Nature, and it is all about how Mother Nature knows. Mother Nature knows you, and it's all about connecting to nature. And I wonder actually if that will do well after the event, because it feels a bit like Rosalind Snap. I mean, I I I love it. I think it's a really beautiful way of expressing how critical nature is for our own sense of self with lyrics like these see the leaves, how they grow back again, and I heal and learn to love myself again. Even when there's thunder, I don't have to wonder who I am. Mother Nature, she knows. But I think it might get lost on the night, and I love it, but it has to get through the semi-final first, which is by no means a given, as it's a really, really strong lineup this second semi-final. And of course, we've only had hints of the staging at the time we're chatting about this. So that will be an interesting one. I mean, Delta Goodrum's obviously in it this year with her song Eclipse. It's a really strong song, which will probably do well on the night and afterwards as well. But I'll be watching Luxembourg and and seeing how Eva Maria gets on afterwards. As well as Delta Goodrum for Australia and to see whether Greece keeps up momentum after the competition. Uh, of course, I should mention the favourites, Finland, and possibly my personal favourite, although there's lots I love, uh, Denmark. So, yeah, tricky question that one.

Speaker 2 1:10:20

I know. I know. Put you on the spot. Well, we've done that so many times with our guests, haven't we? Ask them a good question and there's this long pause. I don't know what to say.

Speaker 1 1:10:31

I know, it's tricky. It's tricky, but yeah, I will be on the case and next year I'll report back. Definitely.

Speaker 2 1:10:38

Oh, yeah, well, we'll all want to hear. And I'm looking forward to the running commentary throughout the final. I'll have to make sure my phone's plugged in, otherwise, it's just going to run out of battery with all the notifications.

Speaker 1 1:10:51

And on silent.

Speaker 2 1:10:53

I think it's gonna have to be.

Guilty Pleasures, of the musical variety, featuring Cheryl Baker's experience with Bucks Fizz & winning Eurovision

Speaker 1 1:10:57

Well, talking of Eurovision, I mean, there was only really one theme for our guilty pleasures. This podcast wasn't there. It's got to be Eurovision guilty pleasures. So I think it's about time we did this, Ben. Let's do it.

unknown 1:11:10

Ooh, guilty pleasures. Don't mind if I do.

Speaker 1 1:11:17

So, Ben, we've been talking about Eurovision, we've been talking about costumes. Before we talk about our own Eurovision guilty pleasures, I've been having a rummage in my interview archives, as I do like to do from time to time. To a few years ago, when around this time I had a chat on a bit of a dodgy phone line, it has to be said, but with Cheryl Baker from Bucks Fizz. Oh wow. Now, a Eurovision winner from both of our childhoods, probably, Ben.

Speaker 2 1:11:46

Absolutely, making your mind up.

Speaker 1 1:11:48

It is in a sort of a UK legend, isn't it? I think BucksFizz making your mind up.

Speaker 2 1:11:52

Absolutely. Isn't that the one with the the infamous skirt ripping moment? Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:11:57

There is. Well, we'll come on to that, but first let's take a listen to Cheryl sharing what it was actually like to win Eurovision back then. Cheryl, taking part in Eurovision and winning, what was that like?

Speaker 4 1:12:14

Well, you know, I did it twice. I did it in 1978 with a group called Coco. Yes. And that was in France, and we came 11th, which at that time was the worst that the UK had ever done. Yes. So so I know what it's like to lose dramatically and feel like you've let the Queen down. And on the other on the I'm the polar opposite, I know what it's like to win. It was depressing in 1978. I really did feel like I'd let the whole country down. Honestly, you do, because you're representing your country and becomes you know, 11th, which as I say, no one had come that low before from the UK. No hour we're celebrating, wouldn't we? I know, Max. Wouldn't we go? Wouldn't we go quite true? In 1978 there weren't as many entries. I can't remember how many there were. Probably twelve, I don't know. But re scroll on three years and then to win it with Bucks Tears was just a dream come true. It really was a dream come true because it was Sandy Shaw when I first watched her win. I thought that is like winning an Olympic gold medal for music. So and I was a bit of a runner. Wanted to win the Olympic, so um I'm still looking forward to that one.

Speaker 1 1:13:24

But instead of that, Cheryl, you won Eurovision, which in in my view is even better.

Speaker 4 1:13:29

It is, it is, but you just don't get an MBE for it. Oh you never know.

Speaker 1 1:13:35

There's still time. And and you know, when you think back to that, did you think before the performance that you had a good chance of winning?

Speaker 4 1:13:42

No, I didn't. Because because I'd lost so dramatically three years before, I didn't think we had a hope. Not a hope to win. I mean when the votes were coming in, there were four countries that were kind of chopping and changing at the top of the board. Yes. Including us. But then the in the last couple of votes, it was like us and Germany, I think it was, and and I thought, well Germany's gonna win. It was a gr really good song and she was a fabulous singer. And all the cameras were on her. We were in the green room backstage. And all the cameras were on the German girl. Right. When we were announced, the winners. And so I Mike Nolan leapt in the air and went, We won, we won't. And I went, No, we can't have, you know, because look, the camera's on the German girl. So I was in a bit of a state of disbelief when the actual announcement came. But yeah, reality soon kicked in and I thoroughly enjoyed myself after that. I bet. Gosh, that must have been a big party once you'd done your performance, your f your winners. Yes, we did. We had a big party, and then I went up to my room in the hotel in Dublin and I rang home and we lived in a little council flat in East London, and the cheers that were going out, they went, My real name, Frita. They went, and I started crying, and I thought, then I want to be there, I want to be with my family, and I want to be here. Then I rang my brother in Australia, he lives in Australia, and it was just it was a very emotional time. So although we were having a big party, I just wanted to be with my family and the people I love.

Speaker 1 1:15:16

Do you know that, Ben? That's it, isn't it? The emotion of winning, that feeling of just wanting to be with your nearest and dearest in in that moment.

Speaker 2 1:15:26

Absolutely. And I just found that really moving, how she went from that utter despair to utter joy and how personal it is. And we forget that watching, don't we, at home and and looking at all of this and looking at the uh null pois and so on, but thinking each of these performances is someone who is absolutely giving their all and is carrying th the weight of that expectation and that hope and so on for their country.

Speaker 1 1:15:54

Yes.

Speaker 2 1:15:54

But they go back and they do it not because okay, it's obviously wonderful to win, and if you don't you you you are devastated, but you're there to be part of something bigger, something special, something you know, a project that we need more of in an increasingly fractured world, one that shows that regardless of what divides us, what brings us together, that humanity is expressed through music and through togetherness. It's gorgeous. And I have to say, as someone who grew up in the uh late 70s and the 80s, hearing Cheryl's voice, I'm I'm back at the kitchen table watching record breakers, watching Baker and Eggs. And oh my goodness me, that is a voice from my youth. That's amazing to hear.

Speaker 1 1:16:44

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, she's such a lovely person as well. Yeah, she really is. Absolutely. And it is it's interesting what you say about togetherness, and I think that's it, isn't it? It's the spirit of togetherness. I mean, I went to the Eurovision Finals in 2015 when it was last in Vienna, and you know, it was our first one, we didn't really know what to expect. And I I kind of expected then that there'd be lots on sale in the arena, you know. I thought we could get our flags for loads of different countries, and there was literally nothing. So I turned up. I mean, I didn't like the UK entry that year, it was absolutely shocking, but I turned up without a UK flag, and it was like, oh my word. And where we were stood, we were sort of right in the mosh pit of the of the Eurovision audience. The cheap, the cheap standing uh tickets we were, although it was quite near the front to be fair. And I made some lovely, lovely friends. There were three German girls that were there. Randomly, they had a UK flag, which they gave to me, so I could actually wave, wave my flag. And it was just so, so lovely that moment because we all bonded, we all supported, you know, we supported one another's entries, we had such a good time. And I also made a fantastic friend when I w I went to the loo in one of the boring songs, and uh this lady from Belgium had done the same as well, and we just sort of bonded over that like silly little experience. And in the end, when the voting was sort of all being being totted up behind the scenes, we just sat outside and talked for ages, and I made a lifelong friend there, and it's just so so lovely. It's that real spirit, as you say, of togetherness and and camaraderie, and you can't beat that.

Speaker 2 1:18:21

Honestly, it it sounds like a great fun. Well, it is a great fun night for everyone, but to be there in person, yeah, must have been super special. I guess it's the last night of the proms, but for pop music.

Speaker 1 1:18:34

In some ways, I think, yes. Talking of Cheryl, one of the things I wanted to find out from her once and for all was whose idea it was to whip off those long skirts to reveal the shorter ones in that iconic Eurovision performance by Bucksfizz. I mean, it's seen so many performers at Eurovision take, well, copy or take inspiration from that, shall we say. So let's have a listen to Cheryl telling the real story about how it actually came about by chance.

Speaker 4 1:19:06

We were talking about what kind of outfit we should wear. Yeah. And Day Afton is much tinier than me. This is about three stones lighter than me. It always has been. Right. Tiny little thing. And she wanted to wear a little flimsy outfit. She wanted to wear a very short skirt. Right. But I wanted to wear a knee length skirt. Everyone was putting in their opinion. It was the record label and the choreographer and the management and production and everybody. And in the end I went, Oh, for goodness sake, let's have both. And it was a very flippant showaway remark. Yeah. But the choreographer picked up on it and said, That's it. On the line, if you want to see some more, we take the full skirt off and we reveal the short skirt.

Speaker 1 1:19:45

Wow.

Speaker 4 1:19:46

So it's uh a work of genius. We won by four points, and without the skirt, I don't think we would have won.

Speaker 1 1:19:53

So there you go. The truth the truth behind that costume idea.

Speaker 2 1:19:58

Now you see, I'm I'm going on tour around the country soon, Jen. What are we what are we thinking? Oh long long trousers or just just to reassure our listeners that in no way will I be revealing my legs to anyone on this tour.

Speaker 1 1:20:15

Well, you could have the trousers zipped at the knee ben, and then just reveal a bit of bit of calf!

Speaker 2 1:20:21

A cheeky bit of ankle. Oh my goodness me!

Speaker 1 1:20:25

Moving notes, music, and the heart that drives it. Well, I think it's about time we we thought about our Eurovision guilty pleasures. I don't know, some some people probably say Eurovision in its entirety is a guilty pleasure. I obviously say no. I mean, there are some genuinely fantastic songs and Eurovision moments if if you seek them out. For me, Slim Anne from France performing Mon amour in the final of Eurovision in 2024 is one of those incredible moments. It gives me goosebumps every time I watch it. I don't know if you've seen this one. Um so Slim Ann, he has this incredibly rich and powerful, soulful voice. He's had over 25 songs in the French charts, including a number one. So he was successful in his country before taking to the Eurovision stage. But what he did in his Eurovision performance was a first because towards the end of the song, he steps away from the microphone, all the music cuts, and he simply sings this very emotional part of his song, a cappella. And honestly, what he did in the final, when he did that, you could hear a pin drop in the arena. Everyone was silent for a moment, and then the cheers started. It's about 30 seconds or so of a cappella, and he breaks that then by striding forward to the mic, the drums crash in, and that crescendo and that contrast at the end of the song. I mean, it's so, so special. So if you haven't seen that, definitely check out Slaman, Mon Amor, Eurovision 2024, an iconic moment. I'm I'm shivering thinking about that now, but but in a good way. And I think as well, you know, a lot of people equate Eurovision to novelty songs and the fact that it's full of novelty songs, and that is true to a degree, but I think for me there are three songs that really change the game in the contest. I mean, there's more, and we'd be here forever if if we could be. But let me just share three quickly with you. So Euphoria by Lorene, I think most people know that. It won in 2012 for Sweden, and I think it gave the contest a real boost and almost a new credibility in circles where it might not have had that previously. Well, it definitely didn't have that previously. I mean, that went on to be a hit all over the world, of course, and it was a really cool performance, almost Japanese inspired with her costume and that call back to Sandy Shaw with her performance in bare feet as well. So there's that one, this rhythm inside, which I've mentioned before on the pod by Loick Notto for Belgium in 2015. A cool song, but a step change as well, I think, because the choreography, it was really simple, incredibly striking. Loick wrote the song, he performed it, he created the staging and the choreography himself in terms of the concept. I I have to say, I did create a hatch performance to rhythm inside last year for a fashion show. I love it so much, so I am a bit biased.

Speaker 2 1:23:23

Um what ears did you wear for that one?

Speaker 1 1:23:26

No ears, but that was a big, a big long sequin cape for that one. Yeah. There's a lot of uh of cape waving and dancing in in that in that way. But the final Eurovision song for me that makes me well up, honestly, every time I hear it. It's also from 2015, so the year we went to the finals. I would say it's the best duet that there's ever been in Eurovision. It's very, very underrated. It's a song called A Monster Like Me. And it was the Norwegian entry that year. It was performed by Morlin and Deborah Scarlet, and it's this song, it's it's provocative, it's heartbreaking, it's beautifully performed. This ballad, with one of the singers admitting in this song that they've done this awful thing in their youth that you never find out what it is, but they're telling their present partner that, and they're telling them to leave them because they shouldn't be with a monster like me. It's so emotional, Ben. Honestly, it finished eighth in the final that year with 102 points. So, so yes, check that one out as well. Monster Like Me by Morland and Deborah Scarlet. Ben, I've got to ask you, so from a Eurovision guilty pleasures point of view, what are you thinking?

Speaker 2 1:24:38

Well, the thing is, Jenn, as you know, I I'm fully aware in support of the contest, but it's been a long time since I engaged with it. I think the last time, in all seriousness, was in the late 90s.

Speaker 1 1:24:51

No!

Speaker 2 1:24:52

Yeah, way back, way back when when we only had five channels on the TV and it was what was on on the Saturday night, and my family and I would would all come together and watch it. And so the songs that I've uh when I think of Eurovision that are in my head, other than Cheryl uh, of course, uh and Bucks Fizz are songs like uh oh Michael Ball sang one step out of a time.

Speaker 1 1:25:16

Oh yes.

Speaker 2 1:25:16

Which is absolutely it's a absolute banger, and it didn't do very well in the charts, but I I just remember everyone listening to it. A song that I still hear in my head randomly walking around the supermarket is Better the Devil You Know by Songa. Honestly. But I think the one because if you remember one of my guilty pleasures a while back was that um Wurzels album, Nevermind the Bullocks, it is the Wurzels. I know what you're gonna say. Uh Who Are Just a Little Bit? Who Are A Little Bit More was was uh didn't that one get to number one?

Speaker 1 1:25:48

Yeah, Gina G, Who Are Just a Little Bit, did get to number one in 1996 and it placed eighth in Eurovision that year as well.

Speaker 2 1:25:57

So Ooh Are Just a Little Bit is probably it's it's almost my guilty pleasure, but my absolute guiltiest of Eurovision pleasures is not actually a Eurovision song. What this one is, is it's tied to a beautiful love letter to Eurovision, which was the Father Ted song, My Lovely Horse. Yes. Written and performed by Neil Hannon, um, who of course is the divine comedy, who I just adore. And the Father Ted episode, a song for Europe, is still one of my favourite bits of comedy and My Lovely Horse, both versions, if you haven't seen it, do watch it. The uh the the version that sort of um that they rip off and and turn into the pop song, and then the actual live performance that they do. I'm not gonna spoil it if you've not seen it. It is hilarious, and it was a comment, of course, at the time that the fact that Ireland just won it, was it like four years in a row?

Speaker 1 1:26:58

Yeah, something ridiculous.

Speaker 2 1:27:00

And um and how the the the story being that they were so desperate to lose that year because they it was costing them a fortune to put it on. Oh, it's just so for me, it's not a Eurovision song, but it very much encapsulates Eurovision is my lovely horse.

Speaker 1 1:27:17

Yeah, absolutely. Brilliant, brilliant choice, Ben. And we think we did we played a clip from Ardle, didn't we, a little a little while ago on the pod about my lovely horse. It it really is.

Speaker 2 1:27:27

And in fact, I just had to I had to say I yeah a couple of years ago went to see the Divine Comedy live in in Bath Bath, and phenomenal performer with his wonderful group, and second half he came out and uh was drinking lots of red wine whilst performing. Had to have a little lie down on the stage during one of the numbers, he'd had quite a lot of red wine and uh people calling out songs to him to do, and I called out my lovely horse, and he just said, Oh, it's the poshest heckle I've ever had, my lovely horse. Wow, and uh then didn't play it. I was like, I know. So you managed to insult me and then not play the blooming song.

Speaker 1 1:28:04

Shocking.

Speaker 2 1:28:06

I'll let him off. I'll let him off. He's a good lad.

Speaker 1 1:28:08

Absolutely shocking.

Speaker 2 1:28:09

How about yourself?

Speaker 1 1:28:10

Well, when it comes to...

Speaker 2 1:28:11

Is there?

Speaker 1 1:28:12

There is, actually, yeah. But but like you, well, there is a song that's a guilty pleasure, but there's also a country that's my guilty pleasure at Eurovision. That is Moldova. Now, I absolutely I've got to go to Moldova. Moldova, they often send songs that are just absolutely nuts. My favourite one was their song in 2011, a song called So Lucky. And the band they wore these really tall hats that look like kind of garden gnome hats. So they were these like four-foot conical-shaped black seagrass hats. The song was just nuts. It had someone riding around on a penny farthing, it had some a circus performer doing all sorts of stuff. It actually came a very respectable 12th, I think. That's respectable.

Speaker 2 1:29:03

Cheryl would have would disagree.

Speaker 1 1:29:05

By this point, I think there were about sort of 25 or so songs. Sound amazing.

Speaker 2 1:29:11

Book them for the hatch.

Speaker 1 1:29:13

Honestly, they were absolutely brilliant. They did the the brothers that perform this they did return again in 2022 as well. So they're a bit, you know, kind of in it for life.

Speaker 2 1:29:21

Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:29:22

So So Lucky is definitely a guilty pleasure. And another one that's a real guilty pleasure from the same year 2011 is Blue, the UK entry, I can by the boy band Blue. That is definitely, definitely something that I, you know, if I feel feeling a bit low, what can I do? I know. I'll put on I Can by Blue. Never fails, never fails to cheer me up. Can't believe I've actually admitted to that, but there you are.

Speaker 2 1:29:48

A true Eurovision. It is. Well, if there's anyone out there who's not engaged with Eurovision like me since the 90s, there you go. You've got a fabulous playlist, and that's your afternoon sorted, isn't it?

Speaker 1 1:30:03

Absolutely, absolutely. And definitely watch the final on Saturday. It will be it'll be a show to remember. The semi-final yesterday was quite interesting. All I would warn, because Serbia did get through, it's quite a it's quite it's an interesting uh performance. There's a lot of screaming going on. So maybe that use that for your toilet break. Unless you love that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 1:30:27

A cup of tea, get the kettle on. When the screaming stops, it's safe to come back in the room.

Speaker 1 1:30:32

Exactly. Exactly that. Well well

Your emails into the pod & Ben talks about British composer & friend, the late Eric Wetherell

Speaker 1 1:30:36

on that note. That's almost your lot from us for another moving notes. But before we go, we've got to give a shout out to some really lovely people who've sent messages into the pod. Now, hello to Marion who says, Dear Jen and Ben, what a great podcast. Really enjoying them, but especially this recent one. Now, I think the recent one that she mentions, Ben, was the last one before this one. So I think we were chatting about showing emotion and about how music can support you through sadness. And we asked the question, is there anything better than a laugh, a cry, and a cup of tea whilst chatting about music? I think we all know the answer to that one. Um, but Marion also says, What motivated me to get moving and go across the pond to Bristol to sing with Choir of the Earth in June 2025 was after I heard we were singing Eric Weatherall and knowing how much he meant to Ben, I was compelled to give support in person to Ben and his family who have enriched my life with the creation of the choir. Marion says, I know I speak for many who are so thankful for this whole new world of learning and performing such a variety of music and for the incredible byproduct of a worldwide group of friends with whom to share the joy of music and especially the joy of working hard to create quality music. Marion says we're all forever friends, and I also hope we're an avenue for the growth of music, appreciation, and an inspiration for younger folks to participate when they see how much fun we have. And that's from Marion. Such a lovely email there, Ben.

Speaker 2 1:32:15

That is absolutely gorgeous. And to know that this music and this way of learning and this way of being together is having such profound impact on people around the world, like Marion, is just gorgeous. And for me personally, as someone who was a close friend of Eric Weatherall, and bear in mind that there was a huge age gap between us. I mean, he was fifty years older than me.

Speaker 1 1:32:39

Right.

Speaker 2 1:32:39

And he he died in 2021 at the age of 95. Gosh. And I I met him when I was in my thirties, by mid-thirties, and he was in his eighties by then, and we just got on so so well. Um he was one of those people who, you know, as you get older, if you surround yourself with people um who are young at heart or young in person, you know, you never really get old, and he was not, although physically he was an old guy, he was a very young man in terms of his outlook on life and his outlook on music and his outlook on creativity. You know, he didn't start composing until he was in his seventies.

Speaker 1 1:33:16

Wow.

Speaker 2 1:33:17

Professional music and a producer for Radio 3 for decades, you know, and it wasn't till he stopped producing other people's music that he started writing his own. And so, you know, although, as I say, he was in his eighties, his music was, you know, that of a much younger man. And I loved his style. You know, he he always said he was born in the wrong era. His music was jazz inspired, but with a real a real heart. Absolutely beautiful. And it was a piece of his that when I first heard it, I wasn't ready for the impact it was going to have on me. It was his saxophone concerto. And the middle movement of that is very simple, just gorgeous, simple string chords and a a jazz saxophone playing and in some cases even improvising over the top. And I heard this piece live in 2010, and it affected me more than I think than pretty much any other piece of live music I'd ever heard up until that point. I was so utterly moved by it. And I just kept saying to him it was a masterpiece, and he was never ever so um humble about spell, you know, it was just just seemed like a good idea at the time, he'd say. And and after he died, I was very privileged to be the conductor for his memorial concert, and it was held at uh St. Mary Redcliffe here in Bristol, an absolutely packed church, hundreds and hundreds of people, full orchestra, massive choir, all his friends and family and people who'd known him. And at the heart of this was a performance of this beautiful movement. It's you can see it online, it's a stunning performance of this saxophone piece. And after that concert, I just couldn't get the idea of this beautiful piece out of my mind. And I thought, what if we were to being inspired by that Patrick Hall's Quanta qualia piece that Choir of the Earth knows and loves so well, what if the choir sang the string parts, which are very simple, very still, and the saxophone remained? And so I took Eric's string parts and I wrote them out for choir and I taught it to Choir of the Earth last year, and very much uh coming back to that idea of never doubting that the people who are turning up for you uh to perform will will know and engage with the piece. I said we're going to perform this piece on stage at St. George's, come to Bristol, come and sing it, and we had 70 people from all around the world drive, walk, take train, fly to Bristol to perform this piece, including Marion, um, who travelled such a long way to be part of it. And we performed the world premiere on stage at St. George's. It was incredible how well the choir sang this piece. Eric's wife, Liz, came and she sang on stage with us, along with Eric's daughter and granddaughter, joined us on stage to sing this world premiere, and it was almost unbelievably moving to perform this piece. And just a little aside, Eric as a producer to Radio 3 was a senior producer for Radio 3, was instrumental in St George's, which was a church on Park Street in Bristol, on turning it into this now world-famous concert venue. So for it to be at that place was so so special. And I I just can't thank Marion and everyone else who came along enough to help us bring that work to that special place and perform it in person for the first time. It was it was magical. That's gorgeous. Thanks.

Speaker 1 1:36:45

It was, it was so magical. It was the first time that I've seen Cry of the Earth perform live. I was sitting in the audience probably about four rows back, and I I have to say, it was incredibly moving. I mean, I know I've I've got this reputation of crying quite a lot.

Speaker 2 1:37:01

No, i stoic Jen. No, never.

Speaker 1 1:37:04

But unsurprisingly, I did shed a few tears. It was beautiful, and and the the sound of the choir in person was absolutely phenomenal. You know, it it it blew me away, really. There was a very yeah, a very, very special place in the heart, isn't there, when you hear music like that and it affects you in in that way. And the piece was was beautiful. It really was such a such an incredible evening.

Speaker 2 1:37:29

Yeah. And it was a very it's a difficult piece to sing. You know, it's it's not even though the chords are simple and they move relatively simply, it asks for real extremes in coming back to the Allegri Misererit. It in fact it goes higher than the top note of the Allegri Miserari and lower. And to ask a what is effectively a scratch choir who have never sung as as they've never formed as that group before was very, very demanding of me. But of course, coming back to this idea of you form the choir at that first breath, and we we become that team that are there for that day or for that period to perform this work, to interpret the music. And it doesn't matter whether it's alleged miserari, whether it's Eric Weatherall's piece, whether it's Better the Devil You Know by Sonia, whether it's gonna bring Sonia into it. Monster like me, in any of these pieces, it it it has that opportunity to touch the heart, and in a in a very real sense, the choir, the the group, they're formed, they build that rapport, but that rapport doesn't just stay with them, does it? It ripples out it from that point, whether it's a live performance, whether it's a concert, whether it's beamed to 150 million people around the world, or whether it's to one person, that rapport is the humanity, that is the heart that that touches everyone. And so, you know, it's been a lovely theme throughout today's pod, hasn't it? That all of these stars, whether it's hundreds of years old with Allegri, whether it's a a new piece, whether it's an arrangement of a classic piece, whether it's Vivaldi's Four Seasons, which Joe took and created something new, whether it's Eric Saxophone Cocita, which I turned into something new, it's respecting history, but it's about creating a rapport that will touch hearts and inspire the future.

Speaker 1 1:39:23

Yes, yeah, absolutely. And and I know Eurovision will do that on Saturday. It absolutely will. Well, finally, a huge hello to Doreen and Tony, two new listeners in Shropshire, who say, We are so impressed with moving notes, co-hosted by Jenna and Ben. Episode five on happiness. I've listened to it twice, says Doreen, and Tony joined me the second time.

Speaker 2 1:39:51

Fabulous.

Speaker 1 1:39:52

She says, Really interesting, so enlightening, such a lovely conversation between two very knowledgeable and talented people. I shall listen to the other episodes too, says Doreen. Well done, Jenna. Your musical and talented dad gave you some very good advice when you were young. Don't be daunted by others, but be the best you can be. Sorry, I haven't put that very eloquently, but it was sage advice, Doreen and Tony.

Speaker 2 1:40:15

So that's I think that's beautifully said. Absolutely. Doreen, thank you, Tony.

Speaker 1 1:40:20

Indeed. Doreen's just had eye surgery as well, she says. So she's now relying on podcasts more. And I have to say, we are so, so glad, Doreen, you're enjoying this one. All the very best for the surgery recovery as well. It's really, really lovely to know that you're listening.

How to get in touch with us & till next time...

Speaker 2 1:40:36

It really is. And thanks so much, everyone, for all your comments on social media as well. Please do keep your emails and your comments coming in. We love hearing from you. If you'd like to get in touch with us, whether it's to reveal your musical guilty pleasures, your musical moments that have shaped your life, or anything else about this podcast, please just email hello at moving notespodcast.com.

Speaker 1 1:41:00

Yeah, definitely. Do get in touch with us. Thanks so much for joining us for this chat as well. We will be back very, very soon with more conversation about music and the heart that drives it. Till then, take good care. Moving Notes. Music and the heart that drives it.