Living In Your Truth

Speaking up for your health is one of the most powerful things you can do. In this episode, we talk with public health advocate Carrie Grant about her journey from rural Georgia to Arizona and how her experiences shaped her passion for health equity. Carrie also talks about creating safe spaces, advocating for inclusive providers, and empowering people to speak up for their needs. Her story is a call to action to embrace education, challenge stigma, and take charge of your health journey.

Spectrum Medical Care Centre
Maricopa County Community Resources
LGBTQ+ Healthcare Directory
Vitalyst Health Foundation

Mental health resources:

Crisis & Suicide Prevention

• 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline — Call or text 988, available 24/7. LGBTQ+ individuals can still call 988 and receive caring, confidential support, though the specialized "Press 3" option is no longer available. EveryMind
• The Trevor Project (LGBTQ+ youth ages 24 and under) — TrevorLifeline: 1-866-488-7386 (24/7) | TrevorText: Text START to 678-678 (24/7) | TrevorChat available at thetrevorproject.org/get-help AFSP
• Trans Lifeline (by and for trans people) — 1-877-565-8860 (US), available 24/7 AFSP
• Crisis Text Line — Text HOME to 741741, available 24/7 Human Rights Campaign
• RAINN National Sexual Assault ...

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

So I'm like, don't have sex. That's crazy. That's absolutely insane. Right. You don't want me to have sex. So instead of preaching the whole abstinence thing, I think we should go into more of teaching individuals how to have safe sex, right? Yeah. So I always tell people safe sex is the basics. I don't care how you do it when you do it. As long as you use a condom, as long as you use protection. Condoms, you got flavor condoms, you have finger condoms, you have dental dams, all types of condoms.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

Hello, and welcome to the Lavender Lounge. My name is Anna, and I'm joined today with Carrie Grant. Carrie, thank you so much for joining us today. I know that you have a very busy schedule and you're on the front lines fighting epidemics and advocating for the community. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for having me. Yeah, of course. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Hot, but I'm making it right. It's Monday. We love Monday. So let's get this party started.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Yeah, it's 110 degrees outside. It's insane. For listeners, we're based in Arizona in the downtown Phoenix area. So yeah, it's summer right now and it is sultry.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Yeah, it's gorgeous. It feels like a preheated oven.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

Yeah, we were talking earlier about how we want to find more ways to get outside and be in nature. And it's you're gonna have to do that at night or in the morning right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Do I wanna be out in 110 degree weather?

SPEAKER_03 1:31

People have passed out from the heat and stuff, so yeah, it's dangerous.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

For sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

Gotta be prepared.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Remember, y'all, heat is a public health issue in Arizona.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

It is, yes. Especially if you're just moving here, please take precautions. Hydrated. Yeah, that's good stuff. Carrie, I would love to know more about you. And I know our listeners would love to know more about you as well. What do you do at Maricopa County?

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Sure, this is my time to shine, huh? Yes. This is your time to shine. You are the star of today's show. Yes. Love it, love it. I'm gonna give you guys some Beyonce energy today. So my name is Carrie. I am originally from Georgia, hence my accent. So I am a Southern Bell. You probably can hear it for sure. I've been in Arizona now for about five years. So from a professional standpoint, I've been in public health for nine years now. So I'm pretty sure I'm seasoned now. I'm a seasoned public health person. I did work from maternal health to community health education to HIV prevention. Most recently, I'm doing some more work in the community at the county. So I love my job. I love what I do. I love public health in general. Honestly, I always say public health is always the best field. So if anybody's out there want to get into public health, do it. So education, I have a bachelor's degree in health science for Columbus State University in Columbus, Georgia. And then in 2023, I received my master's from Grand Canyon University out here in Phoenix in public health. The hope is one day to go back and get my PhD. Oh, yeah. Fingers crossed there. Like I said, I've been doing public health now for nine years. This is all I know. I always tell people this is my first big girl job, and I'm still here. So obviously, I love the work that I do, and I'm so grateful to be here to talk about my lived experience in the world of public health and just give more insight on the importance of having more advocates in the community for certain issues in public health, whether it's OGBTQ rights, more about things like how to prevent heat-related deaths, right? Yeah. All things public health, I'm the girl for you.

SPEAKER_03 3:46

That's amazing. It sounds like you have a really diverse amount of experience. And that is so inspiring that all of the work that you're doing is for advocacy because we need that more now than ever for sure.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

We definitely need that voice in the trying time.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

I would really love to know do you have a key moment in your career that kind of launched you into this public health space? Was there a certain moment where you're just like, I know that I want to go into public health and want to change the system or just I have two moments, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:18

I think one, later on, I'll go into more of the second my wake-up call that was more traumatic. But my first experience that I was like, okay, I need to get in this world. In my family, I come from a small family, southern Georgia, where education is limited sometimes, access to education is limited, health literacy is at an all-time high. I remember one day going to my grandfather's, my late grandfather's oncology appointment, and I had to be the translator, right? And I'm like, I'm confused because we're all speaking English here. So what does this mean? So that that moment was my first, my first aha moment of the port of health literacy, right? Yeah. Understanding that provider language, understanding the barriers that may prevent care, also being able to be an advocate too as well. At the time, my grandfather was in his late 70s and he was experiencing having to do like some radiation and some chemotherapy. He had recently been diagnosed with prostate cancer. So I remember I was in high school then, going to his daughter's appointments and being his translator. I'm in the room with him, I'm in the room with the provider. The provider will say something, and he'll kind of look to me as in what did he say, or help, can you break it down or can you explain it? So that was really like my wake-up call where I'm like, okay, I want to get into a field where I can be an advocate for someone who looks like me, right? A person of color. And also be able to just bring more awareness in different populations, whether it's people of color, people who identify with a certain sexual orientation. So I really want to be the voice of individuals who don't have that education level to understand certain adopter jargon or medical terms. So really being able to help advocate and bring more awareness for people that look like me, whether it's family or other people of color. So that's when my aha moment went off, right? That's when my light bulb went off. So that was one experience as far as what made me want to get into the world of public health. I wanted to be the change, right? I wanted to decrease the amount of people like my granddad who wasn't able to understand medical terminology or wasn't able to understand what the doctors were saying. So I really wanted to be an advocate and a voice for him. And so my other part of my public health light bulb that went off was back in 2020. I mentioned earlier how I worked at HIV prevention. And a lot of my work that came from HIV prevention was influenced by me losing my brother in 2020 to HIV. That was, and I mentioned earlier it was traumatic, right? So that was my second light bulb of okay, this is serious, right? This is a serious matter. Public health is something that we definitely need to get more into so we can provide better services to healthcare for individuals who fear living with a disease like HIV, or individuals who fear identified as a certain sexual orientation. So I always tell people, I take it back. I'm from a southern small town where in the South there's so much stigma associated with being a certain sexual orientation or living with a certain disease and sexual health, it's also mental health too, as well. So I wanted to be the change for my brother. I witnessed him honestly with the stigma in the South. He was willing to go to his grave because he didn't want to disclose his HIV status, nor did he want to live in his truth as far as identifying as a black gay male in southern Georgia. Think about it. If you're a person of color, it's okay, we already have the stigma of being a person of color. And then let's add being HIV positive on top of that, right? Or let's add being a gay black man on top of it. That's like double, triple stigma, right? Yeah. So there's so much pressure and so much, a lot of miseducation to us surrounding certain diseases, but also the lack of advocacy. I think being a person of color, there's not a lot of people in society that wants to advocate for people like us. So being able to be the voice for people who look like me.

SPEAKER_03 8:29

That is just wow. Oh that is so impactful and inspiring just hearing that story. I am odd, honestly. For sure.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

And I think it's important that we are able to educate ourselves. I think education also leads to advocacy. Once people say once you know better, you do better, right? Yeah. Once you're able to educate yourself, now you're also able to advocate for yourself, whether it's having conversations with your provider or receiving certain services or understanding certain biases. So it's really important to not only educate but also advocate for yourself too as well.

SPEAKER_03 9:01

Yeah. Yeah, there's just so many barriers to accessing healthcare that I feel like a lot of people are not aware about or even know about how to advocate for themselves in a healthcare setting. Are there any tools or resources that you think are incredibly important to be aware of or to know what to do? When, for example, like if you're a patient going into a healthcare setting and you're not sure where to even start, like where would you say should people even start in something like that?

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Yeah, so I've been working because I'm working in public health for so long. I've been the one that would provide services, right? Or I'm the one that's giving out the resources. But I also feel it means nothing when you're providing a patient with a resource and they don't know how to utilize it. So I think it's also walking that person through certain services or connecting them to certain types of healthcare facilities or whatever it is, right? I think you have to, of course, give them the tools and resources to access certain services, but you also have to teach them how to utilize. So I compare this to like EBT benefits or SNAP benefits, where it's just okay, the person we're receiving these benefits or WIC, we're receiving these healthy foods and but we don't know how to cook, right? So it's just okay, you're giving the person the resources and the tools, but you're not teaching them how to utilize them. You're not teaching them how to form or to find a affirming health care provider, right? So if you have a patient or who's looking for a place that does affirming health care, right? You need to connect them to a place or organization that actually provides those services. It makes them feel comfortable, makes them feel like someone actually understands them. You're doing the patient or you're doing the whoever the individual disservice, if you're not connecting to the right appropriate resources. I always tell people if you're gonna give a person a tool, you have to also give them a tutorial. Right. So you yeah, you have to give them the instructions on how to utilize these tools, not just take here's a resource flyer, here's a pamphlet. No, you have to be able to teach them and give them the right resources and knowledge to utilize these tools so they are successful, so they have better health results. It's also many barriers. Even with tools, I've learned living out here in Arizona, there's a big Hispanic culture. So now I'm teaching myself Duolingo because I see the importance of learning a second language, right? Or I see the importance of learning a language where I'm in a place where it's predominantly Hispanic. It's a Spanish community. So for me being a public health person, being in that field, I have to be able to adapt and also teach myself new skills that's gonna help me better benefit the people that I serve. Meet people where they're out. For sure, for sure. And earlier we mentioned health literacy, right? We also we know, hey, we have these words or these pamphlets, right? But we also have to really understand the importance of language barriers, right? So out here in Arizona, Spanish is the big language. We use that a lot out here. So it's just like are we providing these pamphlets and flyers for individuals in multiple languages, right? Because there's once again, you're doing the patient a disservice if you're providing them with education in English and they're Spanish speaking only. It doesn't make any sense, right? So you also have to be able to utilize tools and learn how to adapt to different cultures. That's important of being culturally competent, especially in different regions of the world. I think it's really important that we're providing individuals with the right resources and the appropriate resources, not just any resource, a resource that we know that would be beneficial to them and their families.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

Yeah, I agree. That is incredibly important. I also work in the sexual health space. And uh something else that I think, especially here on the Lavender Lounge, that we truly do believe in is there's sometimes a lot of misinformation and don't listen to TikTok. No, exactly. People having to go on Web D to look up their symptoms because they don't have access to a healthcare provider that they trust.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Or there's fear, it's fear that oh, if I go to my healthcare provider, or if I go here, I have to worry about things like ice, right? Yeah, or I have to worry about people judging me, or if I go to this certain provider, they won't use my correct pronouns. There's so many things that people are facing, and we sometimes we fail to realize. I think when we're on one side of the wall as public health professionals, or we're in that professional realm, we forget that these are regular people with regular problems. Like we forget that, hey, they may experience some kind of fear, or they feel like, oh, this provider isn't doing this, or this provider said something that was wasn't right. So we have to realize, and like you said, once again, meet them where they are and understand that we're all humans here.

SPEAKER_03 13:49

So you help navigate patients through this often very convoluted and complicated system. But do you have any personal experience where you felt that the healthcare system wasn't meeting your needs or that they were not speaking your language? Or you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

I'm a black woman in Arizona. Of course I have those weird challenges. I vaguely remember being from Atlanta, southern Georgia, just Georgia in general, where there's a more diverse culture where I'm from. And I know I struggle finding a provider of color out here. And my thing is I like to find healthcare providers, whether it's mental health, whether it's gynecologist services, or wherever it is, I want someone that looks like me, right? So I struggle with finding a provider of color that would be able to provide me with B GYN services. So I finally secured a OBGYN. I absolutely adore her. And she was amazing. But I did run into a hiccup. I remember I went in, I called one day, and I was like, okay, I want to get on prep, right? Some of y'all are not aware, prep is the pill or medication that's used to prevent HIV. So I called, talked to the medical system. Hey, could you check in with my provider and see if she can go ahead and send me a prescription so I can get on prep, or can I come in and have a consultation about it? And the medical system was like, okay, I'll give you a call back. Okay. And the day came, she gave, she did indeed give me a call back, but she let me know that prep is something that has to be prescribed from my personal care provider. So are you telling me I can access medication that will prevent me from acquiring HIV from a OBGYN provider? And to me, I thought that was absolutely crazy because I'm like, okay, I'm a woman of color. My provider's also a woman of color. You would think that she will want to be able to provide me with medication or resources and tools and help prevention from a disease that have a higher race in the African American community. Yeah. Particularly for assist gender women of color. So I was just taking it back because I'm like, okay, I'm here to provide get sexual health services from my OBGYN, and she's not able to provide me with a medication to prevent me from acquiring HIV. So in that moment, I knew it's like there's also lack of education amongst providers too as well. Wow. Because yeah, I work in public health. I know about the benefits of PrEP, I know about preventative measures, whether it's doxypep or prep or pep, I know the benefits of it, right? Because I work in public health. But to a normal person that doesn't work in public health or isn't in the clinical side of healthcare, they're not aware of medications to prevent certain diseases, right? So I think it just really took me back to know that my provider of color, who also is a woman, who also identifies as a cisgender woman, isn't recommending something or medication that prevents a disease that's continued to rise in black women. So that was something that was like a wake-up call. I'm like, hey, yeah, providers aren't getting the education that they need either. And sometimes, yeah. That's why. And oftentimes I think we kind of rely on providers as like our savior. Like we think providers know it all. And hey, no shade to the providers because I love a good provider. But I think it's also important that we also educate our providers on certain diseases or certain things where we kind of want to stay away from. I think there's so much stigma associated around HIV or certain STIs. And providers, it's not that they're against it, they just don't know better. And I feel like when you know better, you do better. So with the lack of education from providers, I think that's definitely making it hard or making it become a bigger barrier to access certain medications or other healthcare services.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

That is so wild. And I think what you do is very important just from what you said, because physicians, they're not always public health advocates, right? Correct. Correct. Like they're just doing their job prescribing medicine from our work in the sexual health space. We see these trends that are affecting the African American community that are affecting, and unfortunately, there's still the stigma that HIV is like the gay disease.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

And absolutely not. You guys do not believe that HIV is not a gay man's disease. There's research studies to show statistics now that cisgender black women are the rates of HIV amongst us are continue to increase every day. So this is not the 1980s. This is yeah, no. HIV doesn't have a sexual orientation, it's not a gay man's disease. Any and everyone could be exposed to HIV.

SPEAKER_03 18:40

Yeah. And you can save someone's life for sure. By just giving them the right information, as I know you have personal experience with that. Do you have any stories that you want to share about maybe a patient's life that you've changed or maybe a new innovation in this space that you're excited about?

SPEAKER_01 19:00

Yeah, so I think just from my experience in sexual health and working in HIV prevention, and I always tell people a bit callous of why I do the work that I do is for my brother, right? Losing him to HIV and me being in the field of public health, you would think that, hey, you can't lose someone close to you because you work in public health. Or it's kind of when providers or physicians or whoever healthcare providers, when they are providers, may have family members who die, or something happens, it's so surprising and shocking because it's like, how dare that happen to someone that's actually in the field? So for me, I think that was a wake-up call for me. I knew then that I have to take control of my health. And I've always been an extroverted kind of person. I've always been the one to always advocate for myself, no matter the spaces, whether it's a clinical space or whether I'm at school. I've always been one to always want to advocate for myself. So I think when I lost my brother to HIV, that was my big wake-up call. And from that day, I knew I would have to get in a space to advocate for people that look like me, right? Of course, I would love to be able to educate more individuals of color about the importance of sexual health and HIV prevention or just being more sex positive. I think sometimes in society we make sex, it's like a taboo thing. And I'm like, listen, we all have it. This is how we got here. We got here because of sex. We were created from sex. So I think having more conversations around sexual health, right? Educating individuals on the portal of getting tested, whether you're sexually active or not. I always tell people, hey, your health is your responsibility. Never give another person the power, control to, in a sense, put your life in their hands. So it's always your responsibility to take care of your sexual health. I definitely want to get out of this whole society thing where, like I said, sex is taboo. People kind of shy away from it. I remember when I was working in HIV prevention, and I remember we used to pass out at home test kits, and I'm like, hey, you can do this at home. You can know your status within 20 minutes. All you need is a swab, right? And the people like, oh, I've been with my husband or I've been with my partner for 30 years, and they were never who? Just because you've been with a person for X amount of years or whatever, you still need to make sure you're getting tested. Whether it's every three months, every six months, please make sure you know your status. And I think it's also important too that we also train the next generation to be more sex positive. Even with me, I'm a mom. I have conversations like with my son about certain things that most people are like, are you insane about? I remember I had to do an outreach event and I was carrying my outreach bag and I took it everywhere I went, and I took my condom jar everywhere I went because yeah, we gotta have condom jar where we go. Instead, a condom jar? Yeah, for sure, condom jars. Yeah, we would pass out condoms all types of condoms. I love that condoms. We got flavor condoms, you have finger condoms, you have dental dental. All types of condoms, right? Because we love protected sex for sure. Yes. But I remember a condom fell out of my outreach bag, and my son, he was like, Mom, what is that, candy? I'm like, no, it's a condom. So he was like, What's a condom? So then I went into detail. I'm telling him this is what a condom is used for because I want to teach him at an early age, not for him to want to explore, but for him to educate himself. I think it's more important to receive information from a public health professional or your parents rather than learning from TikTok or go on a Google trying to figure out what a condom does. So I remember having a conversation with my best friend. She was like, I can't believe you had that conversation with him. No, he needs to know. So when it is time, he'll know what this is used for. And I think we have to stop being so scared to talk about sex. It's a natural thing. We all have it. I think we really have to get out of it being so taboo or it being like, Oh, I don't want to talk about that, or it isn't appropriate. And I think that's kind of what's wrong with a lot of people my age now. I'm a millennial, so I didn't really have an in-depth sex talk with my mom. I had to learn in college. I remember I didn't either. This may be TMI, but I didn't learn how to insert a tampon until college. So that just goes to show how my mom really didn't have those conversations about sexual health or what to do, what not to do. Or I remember going to college and the first thing she said was, Oh, we have to get you on birth control before college. Because the push in society has always been how to prevent pregnancy, right? Not how to prevent STIs. We always push, oh, get on birth control, or don't be a teen mom, or like I said, I grew up in that team mom era. Like I grew up on team mom. I went to school with a lot of individuals who became team moms. And shout out to them because parenthood is hard, motherhood is hard, and I couldn't imagine doing it as a teenager. Yeah. So you have to be really strong. But yeah, the push was always to prevent pregnancy, right? It was never to prevent SEIs. I never had that conversation with my mom about how do I prevent HIV or how do I prevent committee? It was always, let's prevent pregnancy, because that's permanent, right? Yeah. Pregnancy is permanent. HIV isn't something that's permanent, right? Syphilis is something that's not permanent, right? And it is. It is stays with you for the rest of your life. So I think we have to get out of the whole pushing society where the focus is to prevent HIV. And even with back in the day, I remember it was like this whole thing or be abstinent and don't have sex. I'm like, don't have sex. That's crazy. That's absolutely insane. Right. You don't want me to have sex. So instead of preaching the whole abstinence thing, I think we should go into more of teaching individuals how to have safe sex, right? Yeah. So I always tell people safe sex is the basic sex. I don't care how you do it when you do it. Long as you use a condom, as long as you use a protection. So I think it's really important that we shift society from looking at sex as being a bad thing or having those conversations being like awkward or being a bad thing. Like we're all humans here. We all have sex. And I think if we could get out of that, the fear or the just I'm so scared to talk about it, or it's gross, or I don't think it's appropriate, or things like if we can get out of that, I think we'll be so much better and so much advanced in the world of sexual health.

SPEAKER_03 25:19

Yeah. And I think a big aspect of that is shame, like carrying shame for some reason towards sex. And it's like exactly like what you said like sex is a natural thing that everyone should know about. And it's I remember being a kid, and as a kid, you just get curious. You don't mean anything by it. Like you're just curious about the world. But it's even in school, they only mostly teach abs. I know Arizona is pretty conservative. Which Georgia is too, for sure. Yeah. So it's mostly just abstinence-based education. And they don't need money to not have sex.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

Yes, because kids are explorative. They're going to explore. And then I feel like wouldn't you want to be? I'm not a parent personally, but from your experience, wouldn't you want to be the person that gets to explain that to your child?

SPEAKER_01 26:04

Exactly. And I think that's what we have to really push for. I remember when you're like, I always tell people like kids are curious. Adults, we're curious. Like, we do things that we're not supposed to, or we want to explore, we want to know more. And I think sometimes like we have to understand that kids are still humans at the end of the day. We still have the same urges. We're still human. So I think not being so focused on, I can't believe my daughter did this, or I can't believe my son did this, and more so let's have a conversation, right? Let's create a dialogue. So I think it's also important too when it comes to parenthood that we're able to create that safe space for our kids. Wow. So yeah, safe spaces are something that's really big in my household. I think for me, just having those conversations with my son without him feeling ashamed or embarrassed or whatever the case may be, because I think once we create that atmosphere of it not being safe, that's when our kids automatically shut down, right? Wow. That's when we can create that space to have those conversations. So I think it's really important as parents or non-parents too as well. Because in public health, we work with the public. So creating those safe spaces to be able to meet people where they are, whether it's, you know, family or a patient or a client or whoever, creating that safe space, right? Because I think it's important when we create that safe space, people are more likely to open up, right? To talk to you about their lived experiences. And now you have a better feel of the services the person may need, right? So for instance, you may have a client where they're at the STI clinic, right? Trying to get STI testing. That's what the goal is. They're coming here to check for STIs. But then you get to, you know them and you realize, okay, they have some lived experience. Maybe they need some behavioral health services too, as well. Maybe we need to connect them with the local food bank because it seems like they also have some food instead of it. Right? Exactly. So I think it's really important that we're able to create a safe space and atmosphere with individuals to ask those open-ended questions where they're able to confide in the person or really open up. And then now you're able to also see what other needs that they may also need to as well.

SPEAKER_03 28:13

Yeah. And do you have any ways that you communicate that to people? Of how, like, for example, if someone was wanting to promote a safe space or become a safe space, even either in their home or in their clinic or in their job, how could someone do that? Are there certain words or phrases, or how does someone become a space?

SPEAKER_01 28:34

So for me, I think it's always been natural organic because I'm a talker, I'm an extrovert. So it's always been easy for me to open up with people and have conversations. I think it's also, like I said, working in public health for so long, I've learned how to create those spaces where a person wants to open up. I've worked with different populations from East Coast to West Coast. So I think just being able to be a listening ear. I think sometimes we forget to listen and we just talk. And yeah, I'm a talk and I love talking, but I also like to listen too. And I think when you're working with the public, it's important that you make sure you listen, right? Yeah. You'll never understand a person's needs until you get to listen to what they're saying. And I think whether it's like I say it's a personal level or professional level or at home with family, I think really being able to listen to the individual and hear them out. Yeah. A lot of times people just want someone to just hear them out. They're not asking for advice, they're not asking what to do next. They just want someone that's going to be there to listen. So learning how to listen and also learn how to truly connect with a person, right? So at the end of the day, we're all humans, we have emotions. I think it's really important that we really remember to learn how to connect. At the end of the day, we're humans, social interaction is a thing and it's needed, right? So really being able to like really zone out and focus on connecting with the person, asking those open-ended questions. Also just being a safe space so someone they can just talk on and lean on.

SPEAKER_03 30:04

Yeah. And I feel like it's so important right now because I feel like right now the world is so go fast-paced. For sure. Let's not mention AI. Oh my God. Right. That's a whole yeah. Honestly, I would be super down to talk about that because I feel like it's very relevant and big right now in healthcare because we've been hearing about people going to AI instead of their own friends and family to ask for advice because AI is just going to tell you what you want to hear. It's not going to disagree with you, like it's just going to, you know, that's why we still need humans, y'all.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Yeah, we need humans.

SPEAKER_03 30:34

Yeah, but I think part of the reason is possibly also because we live in such a fast-paced world where a lot of the times health professionals are burnt out. They're not given a lot of time even for their own selves. So it's hard to be present and yeah, be that safe space when needed because it's like that kind of culture.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

And I like how you mentioned how providers are burnt out. They are. And there's still stigma surrounded about mental health. And it's 2025, you would think after COVID and all that social isolation that we learn about the importance of self-care. Yeah. We would think that we learned about the importance of work-life balance, but we don't. And I think it's really important that we are able to find tools to help us take care of ourselves. Always tell people like me being a mom, I'm like, if mama isn't right, baby isn't right. So I think it's really important that we have to take care of ourselves, right? Putting ourselves first. And it's okay to rest. And I think there's always this like misconception that rest is always associated with being lazy. But no, it's okay to take time to yourself, whether you're a provider, where it doesn't matter where you're provider, firefighter, it doesn't matter. You need time to yourself to just decompress. It's okay to take time off. It's okay to take a mental health day. I think so so much in society we have been conditioned. All we need to do is work, work. No time for ourselves, no time to enjoy life, just work. Because that's part of the American dream, right? Yeah. The American dream is to go to college, get a good job. Let's not mention student loan debt, but work, nine to five, eight to four, typical corporate life, we're tall and conditioned to do that. And there's nothing wrong with that. But also you have to be mindful of your mental health too, as well. Yeah. And understanding that whether you work or you don't work, you still need to be at a place mentally where you can provide for your family and yourself. So I think having a shift, there's I think there's been a big shift in society when it comes to mental health and the stigma associated with it because my mom, I remember just from my experience. My mom, she lived in a generation where like to the she's 60 now and she didn't really understand the importance of therapy or mental health or taking those days off. I remember I call her a couple weeks ago and she was just like, Why are you not at work? I'm like, girl, I took a mental health day. And she was like, What? And I'm like, Yeah, I took a mental health day. She was like, for what? I'm like, I'm just not feeling it today, and that's okay. Yeah, and I'm so grateful that I have people in leadership roles in my job where they understand it. They understand the importance of mental health, they understand the importance of not getting burnt. And I think the baby boomer generation, like our parents' generation, they were taught to just work nonstop, like, nonstop, never rest, never go on vacations, never travel. And I always told myself, I was like, of course I have to work to survive. We all do, we're all adults, but I also know that my mental health is important. So being able to prioritize that too as well, and not getting burnt out. I've been in a job where I was burnt out. I remember my first big year old job, I got burnt out really quick. And that was my wake-up call. I'm like, hey, this is not the quality of life that I want to live. Yeah. And I think understanding the importance of mental health and being able to set those boundaries, whether it's professional boundaries, boundaries at home, whatever. It's always good to set boundaries and understand the importance of mental health and how that also impacts your overall health. I think sometimes in society we're so focused on physical health. You go to the doctor and it's oh, I got a diagnosis. The doctor diagnosed me with cancer, right? And oh, you go home and everybody's so sad. We're gonna pray for you and all this kind of stuff. And if you go to the doctor and you get diagnosed with bipolar disorder, there's not the same kind of support. So that's so true. We have to really understand and educate ourselves that mental health, physical health all goes into one. Like mind, body, and spirit. And understanding that physical health impacts mental health, right? Or vice versa, right? And being able to really reduce that stigma in society around mental health. Whether it's mental health, sexual health, whatever it is, we really have to reduce that stigma. I think as public health professionals, it's important for us to be the voice for people who look like us who don't really have the authority or the voice or the confidence to be an advocate for themselves.

SPEAKER_03 34:58

Yeah, and I do agree. I think there's been a lot more conversation about the importance of holistic health. Yeah, for sure. Where exactly like you said, where the mind, body, and spirit, like they're all connected and the research supports that. Like we're we can't we love data.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

We love data for sure.

SPEAKER_03 35:13

Data all the way. And you can't really just take one part of someone without looking at how it's connected to everything else because then you're not gonna be able to, I feel like, help that person fully. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

100%.

SPEAKER_03 35:30

Do you feel like there might be also some conflict and just a lack of understanding between the medical and health community, which kind of stays in its own bubble a lot of the times, and people's cultural backgrounds? Because growing up, my family, for example, was very into alternative medicine, but we didn't have any trust with doctors. So it's if you got sick or if needed stitches or something, my family would be like, oh no, we're gonna do that ourselves. Right. Or like folk medicine.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

Go drink a ginger ear, right? Yes, exactly. The black press is number one like medication in the black community. No, but seriously, I think culture has a big impact on how we navigate in the health system. I think I'm from the South, so we had all kinds of home remedies. Even to this day, I'll call my grandma. I'm like, how do I fix this? And she just gives me this home remedy. I'm like, okay, some kind of way it works. So we are grateful for our culture roots for sure, and we're grateful for different traditions. I'm never bashing culture or anything like that, but I also know that Western medicine is important too as well. But I think it's also is important for us to just really educate ourselves. Sometimes the lack of knowledge is gonna be like our downfall. And I feel like sometimes being educated just makes things better in a sense, you're able to advocate for yourself more. But I do feel like the impacts of culture has definitely influenced how we look at the healthcare system. And I know you mentioned trust early, and I think trust is a big word. And the the populations that I work with, you have to build that trust, right? Because I think even from like history, being a person of color, if you look at the Tuskegee syphilis experiment, right? Yeah, now it's 2025, and black men still hate going to the doctor. They hate, they despise it. And as a kid, I never understood why my granddaddy didn't want to go to the hospital. I never understood why my uncles never went to the hospital. But as I got older, I went to college, I was able to learn about things like the Tuskegee syphilis experiment.

SPEAKER_03 37:30

If you don't mind, can you just break down what happened just for anybody that doesn't know?

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Yeah. Yeah. So there was an experiment, I forget the exact year, but basically, black men were thinking that they were doing some type of research study, right? Where they were experimenting a new drug, but in reality, they were actually being injected with syphilis. Yeah. So that right there is just enough mistrust in itself to not want to go to a doctor. Imagine you go to find a doctor for healthcare services to make you feel better, to help alleviate a sickness or illness, but instead they're making it worse. So even to this day, it's so hard being a person of color in the healthcare system. Because yeah, I'm educated, I know the importance of health, and I know the importance of getting those yearly checkups. But imagine living in a time where you trusted doctors, you trusted providers, and you thought that, okay, this provider's gonna make me feel better. But really, they were using you as a scientific experiment. So I think we have to really understand that there's a lot of historical trauma related to people of color not wanting to seek health services. And I think although we can push for it all day, every day, go see a doctor, go get checked up, but also it's hard to push for something where there's so much historical trauma associated with it. So it's just, yeah, you want me to go to the doctor, but how do I know they're not gonna do another Tuskegee syphilis experience, right? Right. And I think to this day it's still it's still a problem. That's why I sell so many black people, really black men, it's not a lot more of black men that they don't want to go to the doctor. Or it's just like you ask them, when was the last time you went to the doctor? I don't know. I don't trust the doctor. And I think that's so something that we have to educate ourselves about, but also create more safe spaces too. Having people like me who work in the public health field, who I'm able to advocate for individuals who look like me. So sometimes I know people are more likely to receive services or care from someone that looks like them. So being able to really push for more African-American providers, push for more mental health services within our communities, because I think sometimes our communities get overlooked. No one cares. Like I was looking at a documentary the other day about Hurricane Katrina, and I'm like, oh my god, Katrina happened 20 years ago. That was so insane to me because I feel like it was just yesterday when Hurricane Katrina happened. So just seeing like stories like that where I was able to see how they really didn't take care of people that look like me. They left people to die, and they just so I think there's been so many different historical situations where black people always kind of got the short end of the stick. Yeah. So I think it's also important, even with that and how society has shaped that, it's important that we also educate ourselves and become advocates for our community and people who look like us.

SPEAKER_03 40:21

Yeah. And this is a more controversi, especially right now in this political climate, this is a more controversial issue, unfortunately. But do you think there's any relation to that incident that happened, which is absolutely horrific? And I feel like a lot of times people just try to forget and move on, but it's like we can't because generational trauma is a real thing. It's for sure. It's a real thing. And there's been a lot of anti-vax, anti-vaccine sentiment. Do you think that's at all related to those kinds of things?

SPEAKER_01 40:50

I do feel like sometimes this kind of question gets tricky for me because from a public health standpoint, I'm all for vaccines. Like I'm all for it, I'm all for preventative care. I'm all for it. But then also from a cultural standpoint, and you know how I identify as being a person of color, I also get it too. Because they continue to fail us. And it's so much has happened over the years where the Hurricane Katrina or the Tuskegee Syphus Experiment or Flint, Michigan. I don't think I don't think Flint even still has clean water yet.

SPEAKER_03 41:23

Yeah, like those are just one of many incidents, like that, which is crazy.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

So I think it's important that we educate ourselves about certain vaccines, or even in COVID. My community was impacted the most during COVID. So many people of color died during COVID because the lack of education, the mistrust with the government. Like people were like dropping like flies. And I think a lot of that could have been prevented. But like you say, there's so much historical trauma, right? People didn't want to go to the hospitals for what they don't care about us anyway. So why should I go to the hospital? So I think it's really important that we understand different cultural trauma and historical trauma that can impact the healthcare system. Also, it impacts the way a person thinks, too, as well. Uh, even with you, so we talked about vaccines. Yeah, I'm a public health mom. Of course, my son is vaxxed, but a lot of people aren't for that.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

I wasn't vaxxed as a kid.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

It was just like certain right. So it's like some people don't. I'm not here to knock anyone's opinions. And I get it though. I completely understand. If you're living in a country or a system where the government has constantly failed you, why would you do something that you don't have to? If it's so it's like, I understand the mistrust, I understand the frustration, I understand being a person of color living in America and not really understanding, but I also know from a public health standpoint, diseases can be prevented, right? So I think it's important that we know the balance, right? What to do is best. I always tell people, do what's best for you and your family. I'm not here to judge if you don't get vaxxed, or that's like when I talk about breastfeeding like, hey, if you didn't breastfeed, fine. If you breastfeed, fine. I'm not here to judge judge, right? Long as the baby got fed. But I also feel like you have to be mindful, especially when you start having kids and stuff, and understanding that sometimes you can't always force your, how can I say, medical mistrust ideologies on your kids either. Just because you feel like you're against the COVID vaccine, you shouldn't force your child to not believe in the COVID vaccine. Or whatever vaccine is maybe.

SPEAKER_03 43:29

Yeah, because based on the best research that we have, vaccines are currently the main mode of preventing disease. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

And we love disease prevention. Yes. Love disease prevention. So my thing is because I'm not here to shame the anti vaccines, but I also know too, as a parent, why wouldn't I do whatever I can to make sure my child prevented or is able to be healthy? I will do whatever I can do to make sure they have a healthy life.

SPEAKER_03 43:59

Research. Which is a lot of the times really hard to communicate in a way that's understandable and relatable. And I think that's what a lot of at least like previous researchers we've had on this podcast have stated is that they really want to be on podcasts like this because it gives them a way to explain what they do without having people read these really jargony research articles and where you literally have to have a degree just to understand them. Yeah. So it's I guess what I'm asking is how do you try to explain things like that in a way that's understandable? Use a common language.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

I know, like from a public health standpoint, we think certain languages in common or how can I say we use medical terms because we work in public health. But I think we have to also come back to reality. If I was into tech and someone used a technical term, I'm like, I have no idea what that means because I work in public health, right? Yeah. So we have to really be mindful or of the type of words that we use and make sure they're appropriate for the audience that we're trying to reach. I think it's really important when you're creating dialogue that you use the right words, whether it's simple language. Don't quote me, but I think the average reading level, maybe like sixth grade in America, I think, or I think it's something like more when it comes to health literature and creating those health information materials of communication that we keep it in a sixth grade basically. Basically, so it's important that we are able to provide individuals with uh the right tools and words that they understand. Because I think a lot of times that's the miscommunication that we have. Back to my granddad, his doctor was speaking in medical jargon, and he's hey, I only have a sixth grade education. Talking to someone with a sixth grade education and a medical doctor, you see the imbalance, right? Yeah, so I think it's important to make sure we use words that are simple and like most people can understand. Yeah, and not condescending. Right, for sure, for sure. Oh my god, don't you hate when a provider talks down on you? Yeah, oh my god. That happens so often, too. Right. It does. That's why a lot of times people don't want to go back to the doctor, right? Yeah, they get a provider where it's just, oh, I had a bad experience, I'm never going back. Or it's just they said this and I'm never going back. So that's one patient that you just lost. That's one patient that you're not able to provide healthcare services to because that patient didn't like what you said, or that used the wrong pronouns on purpose. Like it's different between making a mistake, but if you continue to make a mistake, it's yeah, people get tired of that kind of stuff. For sure.

SPEAKER_03 46:34

Yeah. Yeah. And then just to circle back to using pronouns, I think that is an easy way to just make people feel welcome in your healthcare space, is just saying, Hey, like I'm an ally to your community. I respect all different sexualities. And I think that's a huge topic right now because and here on this podcast, we just want to give you the information to make your own decision from the best research that we have, but currently the best research that we have shows that gender is a spectrum, right? And sexuality is a spectrum and it's fluid, and it's like putting people into a binary is not reflective of what the data shows. Right.

SPEAKER_01 47:14

We hate being in a box. I definitely agree. I work a lot with the LGBTQ population, and I think it's really important that we understand and meet people where they are. When you talk about pronouns, I try my best to make sure I'm using the proper pronoun because I know how offended I would be if someone approached me in a way that I didn't like or I worked my behind off to look a certain way, and now you're approaching me with the wrong pronoun. So I think it's really important that, like you say, we use the appropriate pronoun. So even when it comes to healthcare providers, I think that's also something that they have to be mindful of to as well. Of course, we humans we make mistakes, but I think it's important that we be respectful and mindful of individuals who want to identify a certain way or they want to do certain things, and also having inclusive materials, like whether it's a flyer or whether it's a survey and you're asking for a person's pronouns, like little things like that can make a person feel like, okay, this is safe. Like I'm able to express how I am or how I identify, and I don't feel judged, or things like that. So I think it's really important. That's why I said earlier part of my job is connecting people's resources or accessing them to health services, but it's also connecting to the right resources because it's like I'm doing people a disservice, or if I connect them to something, it's not right. Or it's oh yeah, I connect you to a provider. Okay, cool. But if I know you identify as being a lesbian, why would I connect you to a provider that's more conservative? Or I will definitely connect you to someone that I know that provides that gender affirming care. It just I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing I connect a person to a resource, and it really serves no purpose. So I think it's really important that we are mindful of the resources that we provide, but also making sure the resources are appropriate for the population that we serve.

SPEAKER_03 49:15

Yeah, and especially right now as well, because based on what kind of provider it is, they can even deny care to that patient. Right, insane. Yeah, crazy.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

A provider denying care is so crazy. A provider, a person that went to medical school who's supposed to be a people person denying someone's insane, right?

SPEAKER_03 49:35

And look, I personally believe in universal health care. I'm just like, if you deny health care, that's the same thing as saying, oh, I don't believe that everybody should have water and food. That's basically crazy what you're saying by saying that. You know what I mean? We love to talk about hope on this podcast and ways to give people hope. Especially right now, people are going through some really challenging times, right? To even access basic needs like food and a place to live. What is something that gives you hope in your field? Like something that keeps you going to do the work that you do.

SPEAKER_01 50:10

For me, when we talk about hope and inspiration, I just think of there's so much more work to be done. So, me being in the pub the public health world, I know the importance of my role in the community. I know the importance of community, I know the importance of trust, right? So being able to continue to provide that trust and that hope and that inspiration for people who look like me. And I think it's also important that we remember that we're all human at the end of the day. We all make mistakes, we are all human, but it's really important that we know that the work that we're done isn't finished. Continuing to do the work that we do, continuing to push, continuing to be the advocate. I always tell people I love to push the envelope. That is what I do. That is my gym. I love going against everything that society says, right? So being able to continue to have that same kind of energy to want to be the person to be an advocate, to be the one to speak up for individuals who don't want to speak up or individuals who fear what could be said, you right? So just continue to provide people in the community that I love with resources and just honestly continue to keep in that safe space too as well. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, and I honestly I think it's important that we remember that no one can advocate for yourself like you advocate for your own self. And I always tell people this, and even when I used to work in maternal health care, I used to work with childbirth and providing classes and education to like young teens about the importance of advocating for themselves during labor and delivery. And I think when you start at an early age teaching the little ones how to advocate for themselves and speak up, when I say speak up, not necessarily being argumentative or being combative, but speaking up more of being empowering, right? How can I be an example for the next person to be able to speak up for themselves or advocate for themselves, even when it comes to healthcare? Sometimes we just think that the providers are our savior, which they can be our savior, right? But on the flip side, it's also important that we learn how to advocate for ourselves too as well.

SPEAKER_03 52:19

And speak up and speak your truth.

SPEAKER_01 52:21

For sure. And live in your truth and own your truth. I think that's something that I've had to learn in life is just addition to who I am. And it's okay with being who I am. And to circle back around, I was mentioning earlier about my brother losing him. I think he didn't live in his truth, and it caused his his life to be premature. I think by him experiencing that and me experiencing the trauma associated with that was my wake-up call to say, hey, I need to be okay and confident in who I am. No matter how I identify, no matter how I look, no matter what kind of money I make, or who I am, or where I come from. I have to be completely confident in who I am. I have to live in my truth because if I don't live in my truth, then something could could happen, right? Where I cannot, or I'm creating people or children who don't want to live in the truth. And I think it's really important that we really teach our sons and daughters how to empower each other and stay in power.

SPEAKER_03 53:22

And if for whoever's listening out there is on the fence of going to get tested or going and speaking with their provider about their status, like what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_01 53:32

A lot of times as humans, we fear the unknown, right? So we really just not know and not have to deal with it, right? I think it's important to make sure you're getting tested correctly. But even if you are in a quote unquote monogamous relationship, or even not, I think it's important that you make sure that you take care of your own sexual health and not just sexual health, either mental health, physical health. It's important that you just go get checked up. Yeah, okay. You never know what you could be going through. And I always tell people sometimes you can't feel mental health conditions. Sometimes that's something that you always can't, it's not tangible, right? So making sure you know the importance of sexual health, know the importance of mental health and physical health, and really being able to be a voice for yourself, even when it comes to getting healthcare services.

SPEAKER_03 54:17

Thank you so much, Carrie, for bringing on this podcast and sharing your experiences. I know I'm inspired right now in my work. Yes, absolutely. And I just want to take a brief moment to thank the sponsor of this episode. Thank you to Vitalist Healthcare. They made this podcast possible. And have a wonderful day. Bye. Bye.