The Lavender Lounge
Welcome to the Lavender Lounge: a podcast community discussing the latest in LGBTQ+ health and wellness. Hosted by Spectrum Medical Community Health Advocate Anna Kova, Lavender Lounge amplifies voices in conversations around LGBTQ+ health, identity, and resilience. Featuring care providers, local advocates, and individuals with lived experience in this space, we share real insights to empower you wherever you’re at in your health journey.
The Lavender Lounge
Sober Community Reimagined with The Phoenix
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What if getting sober didn't mean giving things up but discovering everything you're actually capable of? This week on The Lavender Lounge, Ray sits down with Mike, from The Phoenix, a community that's rewriting what recovery can look like built on movement, connection, and joy.
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Mental health resources:
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- 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline — Call or text 988, available 24/7. LGBTQ+ individuals can still call 988 and receive caring, confidential support, though the specialized "Press 3" option is no longer available. EveryMind
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- RAINN National Sexual Assault ...
Welcome to the Lavender Lounge, everyone. It is really great to be here today. We have Michael Stance with the Phoenix, and he and I are going to have a conversation about the world of sobriety and what the Phoenix does to help people in recovery in the greater Phoenix area. So we're glad you joined us today, and we look forward to a robust conversation. Michael, it's great to see you today. How are you?
SPEAKER_00I'm good. Ray, thank you so much for this incredible opportunity to share about what I'm up to in the world and to maybe engage more people.
SPEAKER_01Great. Yeah, we're looking forward to getting into it a little bit more. You know, as as you may know, Spectrum Medical has been a leading LGBTQ healthcare clinic in Phoenix and the Maricopa County area, serving a lot of LGBTQ community. And one of the issues that comes up quite often for us is behavioral health and substance abuse and some of the issues that have been plaguing the community. And we try to provide resources and support for those communities as well. And so one of the things we've done, of course, is uh developed the Lavender Lounge, this podcast series where we're going to dive into these types of health issues. And today's focus is really on sobriety and the sober community here in Phoenix. And so we wanted you, of course, as one of the experts that's leading this wonderful organization. So if you can start by sharing a little bit about yourself, where you're from, and then tell us how you um started your sobriety journey and then led that which led to the Phoenix.
SPEAKER_00Oh, well, thank you. And uh it's interesting to think of myself as an expert. However, um I've been around for a while. So my my beginning I've been I've been cleaning sober since July 5th, 2003. So I'm coming up on 23 years.
SPEAKER_03Congratulations.
SPEAKER_00And um, and so you know, for me, just to be transparent and authentic, is that I used methamphetamine throughout the valley for a number of years and um in and out of jail 27 times. And that last arrest, um, I was in jail for nine months, and during that time I got sick three days before sentencing, and ended up uh being uh diagnosed HIV positive from there. That was the the catalyst for me, that was the end for me to do something different. Ended up in treatment, um, and that's where everything started to come together. They started to build my life back, and uh that diagnosis was life-changing for me. And from there I just dove into getting as much education as I could because information is power, and I've had some incredible healthcare providers, especially in my early years, that were willing to educate. And so from there, you know, my recovery started. And I grew up a 12-step kid. For me, what I realized is that in those rooms I felt a part of something bigger than myself, and I was making connection and building community. And uh yeah, I've been so from there it's I've stayed the course. Good. And love what I do.
SPEAKER_01Congratulations on your sobriety. And I know for me in my own sobriety journey, which has been a little bit over five years, it was hard to hear those words, congratulations on your sobriety journey, just because of the shame and the fear that I had around coming out about being sober and also what happened if I were to relapse and what I would even want to say that I was sober or not, but I was primarily alcohol was my drug of choice as well. But going back to that actual moment of maybe it was your rock bottom or sort of that moment of clarity that led you to your sobriety pathway, did you have examples of people in your life? You said you that you maybe have grown up a little bit with 12-step, but did you know people that had gotten sober and did you see an easy path or at least uh a clear example of someone that had walked those steps before you where you knew you could do it, or was it all pretty new and scary to you at the time?
SPEAKER_00So I grew up in an alcoholic home. Okay, and there were different layers of abuse. I left home at the age of 16 and jumped out into the world thinking I was an adult and ready to live life as that. And so I didn't find role models until I got into 12-step. You know, I got a 12-step sponsor, started working the steps, doing service work, and I still have my sponsor today. And uh the same one, the same one, absolutely incredible individual, and uh to be honest, there are some things that happen in life that I I hesitate telling him because he knows me better than I know myself at times. Yeah, and so and that's the unique thing about what I love about being sober is I get to have these relationships, these connections that that that stay around. Yeah, you know, I've had I continue to have incredible engagement with people that I've met even in my early recovery. I have a sponsee that I've been sponsoring 21 years.
SPEAKER_02Oh wow.
SPEAKER_00And watched his healing process, his impact on my healing process has been incredible. And so when I look for like role models, I look to anybody who can help me remain teachable and to continue to stay humble. And um, that can be anybody.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and when you talk about your experience, I think it's very different from mine because I was very stubborn and I thought I knew better than the program. And we've all seen sort of the newcomers come into the meetings and you understand pretty quickly the ones that are going to adapt to it pretty easily and those that are going to fight it. And I certainly was one of the fighters. I'm I'm on my sixth sponsor because of those first initial days where I just wanted to try anything else and avoid all of it and just think that I can do this on my own. And I relapsed quite a few times. I mean, I definitely had my setbacks, and I had built up a year of sobriety under my belt, and then the pandemic hit, and for some reason the loneliness and the isolation and all that took me out. I took myself out, of course, but I blamed the pandemic as well. So for some people, I think what we're both showing here is that you can get to the endpoint of a stable sobriety pathway, but it can be different approaches to it. So it sounds like for you that this was uh you maybe were waving the white flag when you first came into the rooms and and saw something that that you felt embraced in and felt comfortable in with the 12-step program.
SPEAKER_00Be clear. Dad, I was court-ordered treatment. And in that treatment, I was mandatory to go to 12-step meetings to find a sponsor. I had no idea what that world was about at all. Okay. I had no no inclination of of what was going to lie ahead of me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, and so because I wanted to stay out of prison, I needed to comply um with what was being asked of me. Yes. Not just by the treatment center, but my probation officer. Yeah. And so to say that I was willing, anything to stay out of prison, yes. Okay. You know, I was looking to go to prison for seven to ten years. So I was willing to go to any length to make sure that I didn't. And plus, I was homeless on the streets of of Phoenix for 18 months before that last arrest. And so no friends, no family. But if I was to relapse in this at this treatment center with I was in their transitional housing program, I would be like discharged, yeah, which meant I would go back to the streets. And there was not so much that I wanted to do that, you know, and um, and plus I had probably a couple yets left in.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, and so, but I think it's but uh I showed up willing to do something different, one to keep the initially one to keep out of prison and then to keep the roof over my head, you know, and so but then after that the transformation started to happen, yeah, to where I really started to feel a shift in talk about us that psychic change.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And um, and it was and I was present to it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, I wanted more because I was learning a different way of life.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I didn't have anybody growing up to teach me that. So when a sponsor or people around me that have gone before me are willing to show me how to grow up, I grasped and ran with it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Did you have any sort of preconceived notions about 12-step meetings and the approach, or maybe that you know, the word God was used a lot? Uh did you come in with any kind of prejudices about the program?
SPEAKER_00It's really good with these questions. I tell you that every day. So am I I'm like I did. I I didn't have any really awareness of like 12-step program at all. Yeah. But I will say that when I sat in my first well, it wasn't my first meeting because the, you know, the the cloud really hadn't settled around me as far as like the first room that I walked into and sat for my first 12-step meeting.
SPEAKER_01Tell people what uh what is the cloud you're referring to? Is it the pink cloud?
SPEAKER_00No, this wasn't, you know, the that clarity of where and what I was doing, like going to first of all, opening that thousand-pound door to walk into something where I don't know anybody, um, just to get a paper signed. Yeah. So, you know, my motivation is to get that paper signed so that I can keep housing and then also not go to prison. So and getting there, so my, you know, that that cloud is like that that kind of like confusion or that being unaware of like, you know, what is this about? But I had a curiosity too, you know. And so about that third or fourth meeting, when I'm sitting there and I'm looking ahead, and there are uh what I called poll rules, you know, the 12 steps and the 12 traditions up there. And I get and I'm reading them instead of listening, I'm reading those like what am I signed up for? And I get to that God piece of it. I'm like, I don't know if this is for me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, same.
SPEAKER_00I don't know that I can buy into this. There's got to be a workaround. You know, of course, being an alcoholic addict, I'm I'm gonna look for a loophole. Yes, what's the easier, softer way? And and finally, probably about that second week, I had there was a speaker meeting, and the individual that was speaking that evening came up to me and he says, Hey, my he introduced himself, Rick, and he's like, I'm gonna sponsor you. And I was like, What does that mean? You know, and so and I had uh heard other group mates, you know, that I was in treatment with talk about sponsorship and things like that. And my first round uh walk through the 12 steps was not easy at all. Yeah, there was a lot of shame about one about being an addict.
SPEAKER_01Oh, it took me years to get through the steps, you know, for sure.
SPEAKER_00Well, Rick wouldn't allow that, yeah, you know, and so um, especially during my fourth step, yeah, because I had procrastinated because there were some things from my childhood that I just hadn't said out loud or wrote down. Right. And so he we were sitting down on one of our weekly as I'm working through this fourth step, and I'm able to get through resentments and people places and things, and then it was like four weeks, and he's like, You are you either finished this by this Sunday, or I'm dropping and a fear washed over me, yeah, which I would later be able to identify in my fifth step, yeah, as a fear of abandonment. Another person was going to leave. Yeah, and uh miraculous work came out of me from that moment. It was talking about motivate me, you know, don't leave me. You know, and uh in it we spent five hours at Hayden Park in Scottsdale doing my fifth step. Yeah, and it was the most it even makes me emotional now to like reflect back on that because it was the first time that I had sat with an individual and shared my innermost secrets.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And when I left that park, I felt years later. I mean, I seen the world through different lands.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00Everything was so bright and so crisp and so fresh, and everything was there was so much possibility in the world. And um, and I felt so free that things that I had been carrying around that were not mine to carry, I was able to sit down in that time with the.
SPEAKER_01I think it's so important for people to hear that example as well that are listening, because there's different aha moments for all of us as we walk that journey for sure. And you had a sponsor that was very engaged and sort of leading the process. And some of us might have a sponsor that's a little bit more passive and sort of wants you to kind of dictate how you move through the steps or at least the pace at which you do. Um, but we'll certainly be talking about the whole process of going through a 12-step program, but it is important. One of the things that I heard that really kept me in the rooms was take what you need and leave the rest. And that was what allowed me to stay in the rooms and get the medicine that I needed and make those connections to people that are going to help keep you sober, the people that you call in the in-betweens of meetings where you're having a s a shitty day or a struggle and you need to talk to somebody and they understand. And I also think one of the key aha moments was hearing people disclose bad things that had happened to them or that they had done in their own experience and being able to relate and finding the similarities of whatever got us in the rooms to being in recovery. We all have something in common, whether you're from a different background or socioeconomic economic status or different part of town. You know, we all had that in common that we were just trying to be better people and find a spiritual path forward. And I'm glad that has happened for you as well. I do want to get us to talk a little bit about the Phoenix itself. So tell us a little bit more about this fantastic organization that you are leading and what your role is there.
SPEAKER_00Well, the Phoenix um has changed my life completely. Um and life was incredible before, but the train the the the way life has just expanded is just beautiful. So the Phoenix, you know, the Phoenix we're a sober active community. We are about transformation. We're out to like harness the transformational spirit, how to shift stigma. And um, so the Phoenix started in 2006 um with our founder and CEO, Scott Strode, who's also a person of long-term recovery. And uh back then I was looking for something outside of the 12-step community to be able to foster movement. And so it started with uh cycling and then moved into CrossFit, and then he started inviting home group members um with him to do this, and then from there the concept of the Phoenix was born in color in Colorado Springs, and then from there, you know, that growth happening in that part of the United States, um, just kind of spreading out a little bit. And then probably six years ago, Scott was discovered, had discovered, was discovered by an global organization called Stand Together, which is a group of individuals that um look for organizations, entities, or people that are creating change. And they partnered, you know, they pulled Scott in and helped Scott flesh out some of the details, creating a vision statement, mission statement, guiding principles, bringing in principle-based management, and really we have this practice called creative destruction. Nothing's broken, nothing's wrong, but we're gonna shake things up, we're gonna look at mental models that don't work and replace them with things that are gonna help you stretch and grow, most likely be uncomfortable. And one of those things was shifting to a volunteer led. And so, because back then, you know, Scott or the early staff members were the ones that led all the events, and so you know, just kind of letting go of control to like see what this would look like, and it was after that the movement just exploded. And so for me, we're we're like, I'll say this for now, I we are we're in over 90 cities throughout the United States, and we are getting ready to launch in Canada and UK. Moving from a national movement to like a global movement would be absolutely incredible, and that looks like where we just might be headed. For me, how I found the Phoenix was you know, I co-owned and managed a business for 14 years, tangible canning and fitness, which is now tangible. And um COVID happened. You know, I had built with my business partner that business to over 4,000 members. And when COVID happened individuals were canceling electronically by email. I mean, I worked totally like six to eight weeks after we were closed and handled cancellations. What I what I seen as relationship connections with and had no communication at all.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so um being able to reopen, you know, we worked really to create a safe space to come back into a public area. And uh I co-signed myself to be this is what I was gonna do for as long as I could. And at that point it just didn't I didn't feel this way, you know, and uh I was Phoenix showed up in a Facebook scroll, you know, and it was like so reactive, and it had these photos of people outdoor climbing and mountain biking and yoga and CrossFit, and I was like, oh, the younger kids get all the fun, and I liked it. You know, I was like, this is awesome. Yeah, um, this would have been great. And uh well, you push that like button, and next thing you know, your algorithms changed. And a couple days later, the Phoenix is hiring for a program manager in and I thought, oh, that's gonna be one lucky person.
SPEAKER_01You had a fitness background.
SPEAKER_00I said this is one lucky person. Still the bells weren't going off yet, still. Wow. And I liked it, and I said something to my husband, and then I said something to my sponsor about it. My sponsor's like, Look, you're not getting any younger, just throw your name in the hat. I haven't done a resume in 15 years. What is this? But my uh one of my sponsors is a journalist and loves to write, so you know, we uh updated that industrial resume and uh threw it in the hat, and next thing you know, I'm on an interview process. Wow, and I hadn't said anything to my like to my business partner yet because I wasn't quite sure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But the unique thing about it was is that I was I trusted the process. Yeah. And I went to each interview and every interview that I went to everything the Phoenix presented to me and even to the aligned with who I am as a reality and as a spiritual. And I was so impressed that every time they said we'd like to invite you back to the next interview, I was like, Yes. And even though I didn't know what was in store, I would with faith, not fear, just kind of like see that door that's being presented and open it, peek in there and say, Okay, this feels safe. Let's go see.
SPEAKER_01Even the CrossFit though, Mike. Oh, yeah. Like no way. There's no way I would be doing this with a if I saw a CrossFit being offered and they were gonna make me do work and run CrossFit. No, I I suffered through that 10 years ago.
SPEAKER_00Suffered. Uh um, no victims, only volunteers. But uh so it was but five interviews later, you know, after that fourth interview, I I knew that this was that's great.
SPEAKER_01Did you have a chance to go check out some of the events too? Oh, yeah. In the in the meantime while you were interviewing? Great. So you liked what you saw in terms of the community participation and who's showing up to these types of events? People in all pathways of recovery.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, sober, sober curious, sober allies, sober supporters, friends, families.
SPEAKER_02We accept all.
SPEAKER_00All of it. Yeah. All of it. And that was like absolutely amazing to be so inclusive. That's that we have an ethos that we open all of our events with when we circle up before we start the event. And um, you know, we honor all pathways to recovery. The only requirement is 48 hours substance-free behavior. Two, is uh everyone is welcomed, friends, family, allies, and support. Three, we create we strive to create safe and inclusive spaces and your voice is heard. Yep. And the last one is as we rise together. Yeah. It's like the Phoenix, whatever it is, if it's substance use disorder, mental health, trauma. But it doesn't have your presence doesn't have to be about that. Yep. It can be just you showing up and having and being active.
SPEAKER_01How would you compare it to people that are going to a 12 step meeting for the first time as well? Because I certainly have been in enough of those rooms to recognize the terrified newcomer coming in. I think we all can kind. spot them and we surround them with welcoming messages and hopefully welcoming messages and advice if they need it. Um but what do you see that kind of experience as well with people that are joining the Phoenix?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. You know that that like I said earlier that thousand pound door is a challenge walking into someplace new whether it's a climbing gym or a CrossFit gym or a yoga studio or even just walking up to if we're doing so if we're doing something in the park.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Just because we as individuals our human our basic human need is to feel a part of I substance use for me I don't speak for me and other I and others who have shared this with me as well our substance use has left us apart from separate alone isolated right and so when the opportunity is presented to us to be able to do something with people to someone we don't know or somewhere we don't it can be a challenge.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But we do everything that we can to make sure that that isn't adopted.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That you know something you said earlier is and just give it some some more language is the the common thread the relatability that we have as far as whether it's substance use disorder we've all we all have something and um and getting into the space where you feel safe and included is is such a gift right and we today we have you know I have volunteer community leaders. I'm the only staff member in Arizona um and uh but I have volunteer community leaders they're they oversee different parts of our valley here in Mark County and they are they had program development volunteer engagement and um and so we work in tandem to be able to make sure that that new volunteer is supported has all the resources attend their first event and things like that. And as this movement has grown in Arizona I can speak to it has been such an incredible and awe-inspiring experience for me to see who shows up to these events and to see them walk through the door and what they do as they stay. Over 24 million individuals um identify substance users and then there's even a smaller percentage of individuals that actually see and then there's an even smaller number individual that's right and so what I know with our statistics with the Phoenix is 82% of individuals that stay engaged with us over 90 years. They're a part of something they're part of the community they put connections they connect relationships and they stay for two years or more.
SPEAKER_01They stay involved and they're largely staying sober then as well.
SPEAKER_00100% absolutely and that's incredible. And over the years that I've done this I've watched individuals come in as members and they stay and they they really tap into discovering just what they're capable of doing whether it's something in CrossFit or whether it's climbing that that wall at an indoor climbing gym or roller skating for the first time or doing quilting for the first time right they get to tap into that intrinsic strength and that's Phoenix language right there. And we start shifting things around with them internally self-esteem self-worth self-confidence self-love right and they start to blossom and that's for having for me being around for a long time or as I have been one of the things that I enjoy the most is watching not just the light come on but watching the light brighten. And I get to see this with these individuals. They become they from member to volunteer to volunteer community leaders sometimes to entrepreneur business owners.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00One of the things that my husband and I just did last year was a uh 10 session over 20 weeks leadership development. And out of 15 people that showed up for that class 10 of them had filed for their LLCs to do different things and they wanted to know like what's next. So pulling from principle based management pulling from the Phoenix those individuals left there with their mission statement, vision statement, guiding principles that were core to what they were doing in life for their business.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. This is so important for people to hear Mike because you know I think that one of the things that really struck me as I was first getting into the rooms was I had to build a new life and I left my former community in San Francisco and moved down to Los Angeles to be with family and that was partly deliberate. You're not supposed to generally as a principal move and change locations because your problems still follow you. But it did do the practical thing of getting me out of those spaces that I would frequent a lot and I benefited from that. But that that thousand pound door that you're talking about was very real for me and I didn't know what was on the other side of it. So what you're describing I think for a lot of listeners who are maybe flirting with the idea of sobriety or terrified of what happens to them is that once you open that door, there is a welcoming community. There can be a welcoming community whether it's in the rooms of 12 step or through programs like the Phoenix. So what kind of experience are they going to have when they show up to a Phoenix program? Is somebody going to make them feel less uncomf less uncomfortable about doing the sport that they might be doing?
SPEAKER_00Are they going to be kind of surrounded by other volunteers who are going to engage them what makes them sort of feel more comfortable and at ease right away excellent well one having two volunteers at an event one is like someone who's just on the other side of that door is a greeter with a Phoenix t-shirt on so we're like readily identified and then there's you know that engagement that happens there you know thanking them for showing up is this your first event um is there any type of like training or waivers that need to be signed that volunteer will help that individual navigate that there's that team up right away. And then there's the the actual like the volunteer leader of the event that will then host we do what we call a circle up where they bring we bring everybody together and we go through our ethos introductions and then we do an icebreaker. And then that just kind of like levels the playing field and opens the door and and there are no there's no musts. There's no must participate as as you're comfortable to do that. And then I'll use c indoor climbing for an example. So when we get to a climbing gym and it might be somebody that's new right they have to sign a waiver go through video training and then they're shown how to connect to the Audible A and then they're taught how to fall and so which you know and then it's up to them right we're going to support them. I've had individuals come in and they s they've harnessed up they've got their shoes on they're like ready they've made it that far and they get to that wall and they want to watch that's good awesome right on good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah that was me with bungee jumping I couldn't do it. I got it all harnessed up and I was like nope I'm out this is okay we're just so grateful that you showed up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah but you took a risk and you showed up and we're we want to make it as comfortable as possible.
SPEAKER_01And you've connected with people and that is really the big point right is to make connect with others in sobriety to do uh centered around activities.
SPEAKER_00Well that and it's like you know I think just having like seeing other people in recovery or people that might be like there are sober curious individuals that that they're seeing people doing things that are fun that are different that are safe right is so important because for me when I got when I got sober I didn't for me it was treatment therapy probation meetings 12 step work. And that I did that for a number of you know for a number of years. So today's today's generation and with this movement we're expanding what's possible in recovery and so showing individuals showing individuals that life can be fun while while being in recovery. Yeah you know that all that stuff yeah all that stuff is important you know to to build that foundation if somebody chooses a 12 step way if somebody is sober curious I love my sober curious individuals because they're out there they're trying all different kinds of things to stay busy yeah find out what works for them and then they settle in. But it's just incredible to watch somebody who's sober curious that comes into the Phoenix and then next thing you know a year later they're identifying as someone who's sober because they found something that works for them and it's been activity, movement, connection community, being accountable to something you know and it's just it's absolutely beautiful.
SPEAKER_01That's great. Great. And then I imagine that a lot of people go on to make lifelong friendships through participation in groups like this that they're not just seeing each other at Phoenix events but they go on to do activities or plan camping adventures or uh other you know get on a plane and go to Rio or something as part of these new friendships that are developed. Have you seen a lot of examples of that as well? Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah again you're really good with these questions. So yes I've well just recently so a group of so I have an individual who is um a wilderness first responder for the Phoenix so he anything to do with water outdoors camping anything like that so um Nathan Shiestrong that's his his uh adventure business he created a he creates a camping event in the up in the Magian rim every May and seven of our people went up there this year on their own outside of the Phoenix nothing to do with the Phoenix but because they're connected and the friendships that they built they wanted to go have this experience and and see what it's like yeah you know to camp sober you know and uh they had such a great time yeah so much that the Phoenix will be involved in October's camping trip.
SPEAKER_01So I need to be involved in that too I'm a camping junkie yeah for sure and it's one of the big appeals of making the move to Arizona was there's a whole new set of playgrounds that I get to go experience and explore and can't and sober camping was very hard to to learn that to relearn that those rituals that you have when sometimes when you're doing specific activities. So I'm really excited to hear that as well. Absolutely good and so tell us a little bit about sort of the Phoenix chapter of the Phoenix in terms of like the amount of members that you have how does it compare with other chapters nationally and um what kind of you already said you have like sort of a representation of of everybody but how plugged in are people generally to events? Are they going to an event a week or an event every month? Tell us a little bit more about the Phoenix chapter in relation to other chapters and the people that go.
SPEAKER_00Excellent so people are engaged and so we have seven day a week programming now and some days like on on Wednesdays, Saturdays, um there's like multiple events anywhere from four to seven events each of those like why Wednesday I don't know but as I as I said earlier I'm gonna go to a coffee social after this and then over to a Moxel social. So I won't even wrap up till nine o'clock tonight but I'm gonna go have fun. But um for Arizona so as I as you know shared earlier we're in over 90 cities right throughout the United States in Arizona Phoenix is in the top 10. We fluctuate between Houston and Austin and so but um but we served over 11,000 individuals last year and we're gonna we're targeted to you know serve 1500 this year and so people I it's incredible that I get to see people sometimes people like event hop like I'll do tonight right because I'm just gonna go because I want to be a part of it I fear of missing out. And so but our member return rate um out of is at like 74% that's huge. Which is huge. And so for whatever is this is where it's like I don't know what it's all magic to me. It's like whatever is happening is just incredible to watch. And so and our event scoring out of five is at a 4.89 and so this is where like you know psychological and emotional and physical safety are important to people. Yeah and that's what's happening out there.
SPEAKER_01You're clearly feeling a need then in the community and building this social fabric for people that need a new pathway in life and sort of even if they're sober or sober curious they're intrigued by what you have to offer it sounds like I hope so and I hope that continues.
SPEAKER_00I feel that it it will because it just keeps you know our first year was we're now in our fifth year we just started our fifth year January 3rd um but our first year we catapulted out of nowhere with 7,000 attendances and just built from there. Yeah. Because I brought you know instructors and trainers from the gym with me and I'm like I need your help to help get this started and so and we did really well and continue to do well because I for me my goal with this in my heart is that I want people to connect and discover this because I don't want anybody to ever feel alone or separate. And so as long as we keep people focused first and create that healing culture through service it's all it's gonna happen. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01One of the key things about what you just mentioned about service too is it's huge in the 12 steps. I mean one of the things that they're gonna ask somebody who's new coming in is to take a commitment to be the person that makes coffee to collect the money to eventually be a secretary of a meeting but giving them a purpose and a reason to come back because you know we don't generally like to miss our obligations when we're trying to do something different in our new chapter of sobriety. And so I love that you all are very volunteer based and so do you all how do you recognize your volunteers? How do they kind of plug in and how do they like what is it about this opportunity for them to be in a sort of unpaid volunteer role but they're so engaged with hosting these events for you. You've got one staff person here and you've got multiple volunteers that are running these programs. So how do you most people want to know what your secret sauce is because when who are running people who are running volunteer programs have a much more challenging time getting them to do what they're saying they're gonna do.
SPEAKER_00I think that's I think that's the unique perspective with the Phoenix is that typical volunteering means you know you sign up to do something, right? You sign up, you do that, they give you a sandwich or a lunch sack and say thank you, right? And you and you're done. You did your service and you move on your way. With the Phoenix it's volunteers that come in or individuals that step up to be a volunteer they have there's a couple different motive motivators there. And that's one they want they have an idea in their head of something that they want to do as an event and it's not on the calendar. So they're like hey I you know can I you know I want to be a volunteer and I'm thinking about doing this what do you think? Absolutely we as recovering humans are the most creative people on the planet. Yeah you know if you can dream it let's do it right and so and I foster that you know which is how we got into sober quilting. I'd never been to I've never touched a sewing machine before. Right. And we I've you know they I learned how to do that cut patterns sew that stuff like that. But anyway is there anyone doing a heated rivalry watch party because I will volunteer to host that no okay no we're doing half man we're doing half man right now okay if you haven't seen that start. Okay. But uh so the you know so it's what these individuals they just they step into it. You know we get I get to guide them my volunteer community leaders get to guide them and say okay this is how you become a volunteer walk through this and you'll sc they schedule their onboarding call with me. I flush out any ideas that they have is there any you know do they need a venue? Do they need budgets anything like that? And the thing is is they they want to be accountable. They want to be responsible they want to build community.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And they don't have to fit in the set model. If you have an idea that's worth exploring you sound like you all will try to make that happen maybe provide a little guidance and then the numbers will show up or they won't and that'll tell you if it's a success, right?
SPEAKER_00Right, exactly. Well yeah that's another thing too is that you know even with business when I was with Tangible and I was building that out I had a Starbucks manager in my early years tell me that look if you stand for people the numbers and money will follow. It's not about that. So if when I stand for the individuals that are in the Phoenix community and I stand with them guide them everything else falls into place.
SPEAKER_01And tell us a little bit about the money piece both as a participant in the activities is there anything that people have to pay or how can people support the Phoenix by you know supporting these events great all of our events are free with 48 hours substance rebehavior and our funding um is is shifting now and however our major donor is that organization stand together.
SPEAKER_00They're they have been incredible with being able to help us build out and then sustain um and the first five years completed the their donation their disbursement we're now in the the the second dispersion which is only going to be three years. So we're looking for we are looking for grants we're looking for other in other individuals um and so to be able to to keep this in the same motion and the framework that it was built on. And so there's no cost to the to the individuals that attend at all and uh and the there never will be you know and so are they encouraged to donate at all and so fundraising appeals? Yeah so we're getting that's yeah thank you. So we're getting into peer-to-peer uh fundraising next and so what that looks like is that um the rock and roll marathon in January which aligns with dry January we have a run club here Phoenix Sober run club I'm 10 individuals that like to do that kind of stuff but they're gonna take the marathon on and they're going to then each have a three tier goal to uh raise money to be able to donate back to the Phoenix.
SPEAKER_01Great.
SPEAKER_00And so but on a bigger scale yes I even I like for myself I donate you know quarterly um and uh and we can do that at you know uh newforum.org and donate now is there and we're always looking for ways to to bring in funding as things you know have shifted and uh and to keep things to keep things going. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I think there'd be a lot of foundations that you know there's a lot of obvious money and dollars going towards recovery efforts and this seems like it's a proven model for building that connection and social fabric and the percentages of people that stay engaged and that is really high. So I think you all have a very good model that people should be looking at and figuring out ways to support. And so how would people that are both in Phoenix and we have certainly listeners outside of Phoenix find the Phoenix as an organization? Are they looking on Facebook? Are they looking on a website?
SPEAKER_00What how do you gonna how would you direct them to a direct way is going to be able to find our app through our website. Our website is newform. And um in that website is the app and you can download the app, create a profile, put your zip code in and it geolocates to where you are to what to to the events available in your area. Now I'd like to speak a little bit about what New Form is so for the first 18 years of we were the Phoenix and I was hired by the Phoenix and um Phoenix is in my blood and um during COVID everything had to shift to virtual and because in the Phoenix app we had in person and virtual and so everything shifted to virtual and through that time that we were doing that there was research and development on the back end. Virtual was so successful. Yeah so fast forward research and development they do a pilot of bringing in partnerships that are vision and mission aligned and that you know give them space in the app to run their programming and so then we had virtual through zoom in person and then our on demand and moving forward proven success we've expanded our partnerships into 35 and by the end of the year we'll be 50 partnerships that are available through our app. But I want to go back to what I mentioned earlier about creative destruction. We're really we're we really love this. is that we wanted nothing was wrong. Phoenix was running beautifully and doing its thing and we wanted to challenge ourselves to grow. And the way to do that was to shake things up and we there was a rebrand or an expansion into New Form, which is actually the virtual digital digital side or side of the app. And then the Phoenix is all the in-person stuff.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00So our new goal is to meet anybody anywhere at any time. Oh okay.
SPEAKER_01And so people should check out New Form just for the activities there if they're just to see the virtual thing. Which is a lot less of a risk in terms of like that thousand pound door of actually showing up in person. You can actually test out a virtual event a little bit more anonymously and uh and get through that process and then feel welcome.
SPEAKER_00100%. And that's what a you know that just it's absolutely incredible. I do want to share this is that so last November we actually met our first goal of impacting a million lives.
SPEAKER_01Wow. Congratulations.
SPEAKER_00Yeah we did it together as a team you know throughout through from day one because when I started with the Phoenix we we had served 88,000 people.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_00And so with that growth pattern right it's just absolutely incredible.
SPEAKER_01That's great.
SPEAKER_00So now our next goal is to impact five million lives and that was the driving behind the shift to new form virtual growth. So and we'll do it.
SPEAKER_01That's exciting. Yeah yeah is there uh that was one of my last questions to you it was about anything new or next for the Phoenix or is there anything else that you um didn't mention about how you operate or how people should find you or get plugged in and involved in so there's a couple different different ways.
SPEAKER_00I mean we work with we partner what we with our partnerships here locally we work with treatment centers, sober living environments recovery owned businesses to be able to with the treatment center in sober living really plant the seed that hey we're here when you're done. So they have us like a warm handoff into a community with that as new people places and things for them to do instead of going back to what we what we used to do. And so um what's next for us here in for Air for Arizona is um in 2024 I wanted to step into the sober music movement and we I was had these incredible individuals in my life sober house records they were both volunteers and then we cultivated and crafted formally intoxicated music tour. And so we did music events every quarter and it just kept growing 250 all the way to by quarter four it was over 500 people.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then those individuals they you know what I've learned about volunteers is that they grow up you know with as their recovery expands and they get things back like family, kids, jobs, school. Hope purpose hope, purpose direction, right? And so they go off and do other things, you know, and so more creative destruction kind of thing going on here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I wasn't ready to let go of the sober music movement. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so I'm shocked to hear that there is one. Because that is one of the hardest places where do you think the combination of alcohol in that world and as you experienced concerts etc. So I'm really glad to hear that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah and so last year well in yeah in early 2025 a couple of buddies and I from the spot sober lounge over in West Valley um Stefan and Bimo or Brian um we came together and we were like ready to do something big. And so we created our an LLC called Sobercollab and last year in October we hosted our first one day sober music festival and we had 12 different Sober in individual music artists and bands 35 partnerships at the attend table food trucks drink vendors we had Vend there tarot there for testing and retail spots and it was we had over 600 people. And no fighting and no vomit no no fighting no vomit such a great time great we partnered with castles and coasters and released uh five acres of overflow parking with them and uh we're we just started planning last Tuesday for 2027.
SPEAKER_01What was the vibe like for people as they were leaving and just I mean this is a miracle.
SPEAKER_00The reviews were just mind blowing yeah you know we we it was it is something that's needed. Yeah and so we're expanding this year. Yeah we we're gonna move to 50 partnerships and then we're gonna have a vintage car show. Yeah and for the entertainment um I just partnered with another incredible beautiful soul um she is Club Lumen and her name is Zoe and she does wellness retreat day raves. So we just went to our first one had a great time 45 minutes of yoga in one space sober raves yes move over into the next you've got dancing you know pink rhinoceroses hula hoops and lights and DJs and absolutely incredible. So this year Sober Festival opened with a day wave as we move into all of the independent music artists. So it's amazing.
SPEAKER_01This has been illuminating I mean I've just heard so many great examples of things that I just didn't think were possible either but that is the story of sobriety right there's so much possibility that comes out of a journey if you just stay on the pathway forward a new life opens up for you. So it's really exciting to hear you maybe even got me excited to check out one of the CrossFit classes like I might have to commit to doing that at the Phoenix.
SPEAKER_00So I would say just start with CrossFit conditioning first. Okay. We'll get the body warmed up and then we can move into CrossFit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah it's yeah I appreciate it any other word last words of hope that you want to leave somebody that's maybe tuned into the show to hear a little bit more about sobriety and I think there's been a lot of hopeful messages as well but anything about the Phoenix or in terms of your own recovery experience that you want to leave people with I think I feel what I'd like to leave people with is that there is a full life waiting for you.
SPEAKER_00And if you stay or as you stay everything is possible. Not just anything but everything. Yeah and whatever you choose to do to not get loaded whether it's 12 steps smart recovery celebrate recovery or therapy or whatever cold turkey or just cold turkey I celebrate that. We celebrate that. Yeah just know that there's an additional space for you to be that can light up your life. Yeah. And it's with the Phoenix. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well thank you for your work with the Phoenix and all for everything that you do in the community just the way that the program has grown over the years shows that something is really working and that there's these robust chapters all throughout the nation and that are expanding globally. I mean I'm excited to see the progress happen here. And I hope we can continue the conversation and just about sobriety topics in general and this is the first time the Lavender Lounge has really touched this subject and there's so much more to unpack. I think as we started to get into our own backgrounds and personal conversation as well about our own histories, there's a lot we that I want to do with this space because I think we're really helping people and trying to connect them to put um good positive resources so that they can live that life that you just described. So we really appreciate you here on the Lavender Lounge. Thank you for spending your time with us today.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for having me I greatly appreciate it and this is my first time doing this and couldn't tell um I'll uh I'll see what it is what the feedback is on the other side.
SPEAKER_01And thank you everyone for tuning in to this week's episode of the Lavender Lounge. We'll be back with some other intriguing content for you in our next episode