American Hustle

Episode 4 - Jeff Robert's American Hustle

• Austin Moody • Season 1 • Episode 4

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In this episode, we sit down with Jeff Roberts, a man raised on small-town values who learned early what hard work and trust really mean. From bait shops and back roads to the courtroom, his journey into law was shaped by family, injustice, and a refusal to quit.

We talk about taking on a deadly jail case, losing the first trial, uncovering hidden evidence, and fighting back for the truth. Along the way, he faces kidney failure, a transplant, and the kind of pressure that tests your marriage, your faith, and your grit.

This is a story about doing the right thing when it’s hard, standing your ground, and keeping on when others walk away.

Opening And Guest Setup

Austin Moody

Welcome back to American Hustle. Today's guest is a man who went toe-to-toe with the state of Tennessee while fighting for his own life. Jeff Roberts didn't choose the hardest battle of his career. It chose him, and he refused to quit. This episode isn't about law. It's about what it takes to stand up, stay in the fight, and keep your word when everything is stacked against you. I'm Austin Moody, and this is American Hustle. Well, Jeff, thanks for sitting out with me today on American Hustle. Thanks like a happy year, man. Sitting in yours. Newly constructed, beautiful space here downtown Nashville, the Brick Bard Room. You and I were on the rooftop of this place several years ago, a couple years ago, when you had this idea and you told me in Max T. Barnes your concept and it was still work at your working law office, and it's completely different now. We'll show some B-roll on the show how beautiful this face is. But so what have we known each other now? About I don't know. About three years. Three years we met through a dear friend of mine and dear friend of yours, Max D. Barnes. He was my mentor as a young songwriter and artist when I moved to town. And it's been a really enjoyable treat for me to get to know you over the years and you bring in the fold of what you're doing here. So appreciate you sitting down today. I know you're a busy man.

SPEAKER_04

Well, thank you. Honored to be on the podcast with you, Austin.

Roots, Small Town Work Ethic

Austin Moody

Yeah. So, Tennessee boy, you grew up in Gallatin, right? How many generations?

SPEAKER_04

Generations. Yeah. During COVID, I got curious about my family heritage, and I traced my roots through my father's side all the way back to England 14 generations ago, back to 1624. And so my family spent the first through my dad's side, the first six generations in Virginia, and then the next eight in Tennessee. My both my great par grandparents on both sides were great-grandparents and further all migrated to Smith County. And then when I was four years old, my parents moved us to Gallatin and lived in middle Tennessee my entire life. Yeah. Did you grow grow up on a farm? I didn't grow up on a farm. I grew up in a in a neighborhood in Gallatin, but uh Smith County is only 30 miles up the road. So every other weekend we were up there either on the lake, working on the family farm, doing chores. My grandmother had a calf that she was trying to get into a truck one time. I think it was sort of a test. Hey, can you get that calf to get back on get on that truck? So we spent about eight hours chasing one calf. So, you know, trial by fire, but yeah, cutting tobacco, haul yeah, doing the stuff. Then we retreat back to suburban life in Gallatin.

Austin Moody

Nice. Yeah, I know the most interesting story about your time in Gallatin to me was your first job working at a bake shack and counting worms. Like calling the worm counter. There's not many people that can say they counted worms at a bait shack for seven years. Seven years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. The when I was 16 years old, uh went to a childhood friend worked at all the various burger joints around town. So I went and interviewed at this burger joint, and I just couldn't see standing over a grill or a French fire machine or a fryer uh for hours on end. And so I left that interview and drove down the road to the bay shop there in our hometown and went out back and the owner was Count Wurns. And I asked him if he was hiring, and he the interview consisted of this. He said, Well, can you count to 12? And I said, Well, yes, sir. And he said, We'll be here at three o'clock tomorrow when we get out of school. And I think the other question was, Are you afraid of getting dirt under your fingernails? And I said, Well, no, sir. So anyway, these worms, these nightcrawlers would come in from Canada, and my job was to take them out of the cooler and put them in cups and put dirt on them. And the owner of the base shop had a wholesale route that he would sell to all the marinas around Middleton Tennessee. So I was the guy to cup all the worms, and I did that until I was 23 years old.

Austin Moody

So you start at 16? Okay, 16. That's uh it must have been a decent job, though. I mean, to stay there that long.

SPEAKER_04

Well, I tell you what really what really the tie-in, Austin, is uh these folks at a young age, they saw that I was willing to do the work and be on time and do what they needed me to do, but it was it was a give and take because they trusted me at a young age. Uh over time they would give me the keys to the to the cooler and I'd set my own hours. And so being being um blessed with um that opportunity to be trusted, and it it uh is a win-win, and I consider them family to this day. In fact, I saw Floyd about three months ago. I was out there driving through his neighborhood, showing some friends, and he was on his gator coming up the hill from fishing. I think Floyd's about 86 years old now and had just a good reconnect with him for about a half hour of visiting with him.

Austin Moody

Nice. Yeah. So like back then, I mean, the wholesale bake shop, was there a lot of guys out there like commercial fishing on old hickory, like the hill local restaurants.

Bait Shop Lessons And Trust

SPEAKER_04

You know, one of the great things about that bait shop experience is just like this. Not only did I work in the back, but when the fishermen come in, they would have night tournaments for bass fishing. There'd be about 20 of them lined up out front, and they'd be sipping coffee and buying the latest, you know, topwater lure or bass, you know, thing of the grape firms, you know, to go bass fishing and probably and so I would enjoy just sitting and pull out the chair and listen to their fishing stories. So it was it was it was more than just work, it was a an experience.

Austin Moody

Yeah. I like that, man. It was like in uh we're quite well, you know, you're not twice my age, but you're almost there. But I was a only child and had a lot of old guys and family members around me as a kid and which I got in music at an early age. And you know, being from a small town being able to sit around with a lot of those old we we still had parlor pickings, you know, at the barber shop. I mean, it sounds like I was born in nineteen sixty, but um King Sport in East Tennessee it was when I was a kid it was still pretty old timey, which was cool. And I think that's why I I fell in love with with music because of that and the storytelling and just sitting around and being the little guy in the corner that got to hear all all the things, you know. So there's something special about growing up in a small town and getting that experience. I interviewed a guy about a month ago, Marty B and he said you know, you can you can take a guy from the country and he'll he'll do well in the city, but you take a city guy and put him in the country and he ain't gonna do so well. So there's something about that. It's uh it's a privilege to be able to grow up like that. So debate shack to getting into law, like what was your inspiration to to become an attorney? Did you sit around watching Matlock as a kid?

SPEAKER_04

No, two things really. I I read a book that has inspired many lawyers to kill a mocking bird, and that was uh a class project when I was in eighth grade. So it got me interested in in the work, but nothing really m makes it hit home like an experience. And my father was a truck driver, and when I was when I was younger, he was an independent and he would haul livestock. So during the summers I would ride with him on the road to uh pick up a load of hogs, yeah, take them to the slaughterhouse. So I got into really early education about how that works, that whole culture of being on the road at nine as a truck driver, and that's probably what immersed me in the country music because that's all he listened to. And so he uh later in life was working as a team driver and had a bad accident because his co-driver blacked out behind the wheel. My dad was in the sleeper, and fortunately no one got hurt terribly or killed, but my dad suffered a severe injury to his shoulder and neck, and it was a preventable appearance, and it all came down to a big company's neglect, and then the insurance company got involved, and it was a doubling down. I was like, not only do we deny your claim, but we're gonna make you prove various things. That really inspired me, the how someone who can be out here working and doing you know, working as as diligently as they know how and to help the employer only to get that's a sense of betrayal. And that that ripple effect passed down to our family, our household. And then but that that uh that experience really motivated me to dig deeper and and to decide to pursue a career that would, you know, fight against injustice and stand up for the working folks.

Austin Moody

Yeah. So I think I don't I I think a lot of people, you know, that don't necessarily get to experience or are fortunate enough not to have to experience going through something like that, really they don't get to see what that what that means, you know. Now I'm not saying lawyers have a bad rent, but if if you if you don't ever end up in a situation where you need one, you really don't know how handy they can they can be. And you know, especially like that situation. Corporate big companies, insurance, got all the power. If you don't have someone fighting for you, you're screwed. And I l I love that. I didn't know that's why you why you got into it.

SPEAKER_04

So that made me so bold as to share something with you. That wreck happened on Interstate 40 east, right outside of uh I think it's Rock Porth. Anyway, it's mile marker 331, and it's a big hill as we're coming out of Knoxville toward Nashville, and that big hill is where the driver blacked out and crashed over into the oncoming lane and horse lung again didn't hit another car, but but that it was entirely preventable and it could have been so much worse than just I bad and the co driver getting injured. But but that was that my marker 331 has a lot of meaning for me every time I'm traveling my forty East because I know exactly where sawmate, right Channeling Red Celine in the 20 verse injury.

SPEAKER_03

Exactly.

Austin Moody

So if you if you hadn't become a lawyer, what would have been your second option? And don't say farming because that's every Tennessee boy's backup dream.

SPEAKER_04

No, it was never my dream. But to be doing something probably entrepreneurial and outdoors. I don't know what that would be. It was never good enough to be a fishing guide or a hunting guide, but something it would have been outdoors, it drew from the things I enjoyed that connected me to this region.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Austin Moody

So I want to go back to the bake shot, the bake shop. I keep saying bake shot because we play at the bake shot down in Florida all the time, but after high school, you still worked at the bait shop and you kind of went uh a little bit of a different route with your school.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Why Law: Family Injury And Injustice

Austin Moody

You went to night school for law school, right? Or did you do university first, like for your basic stuff, or how did all that work out? Because I know you were working at the bait shop and then going to night school.

SPEAKER_04

Well, what happened was I graduated from high school in Gallatin and went to Volunteer State Community College. So I went to non-traditional route of two years at a community college. So I didn't go away to school as soon as I graduated. I stayed and worked not only at the bait shop but at a furniture store delivering furniture while attending class of all states. So working two part-time jobs and going to school really, I think, laid a good foundation for me to have a good work ethic. Went to MTSU my junior year and just didn't have the money. So I I dropped out after my junior year and moved back home and took a job at at a printing company. Donnelly was the main employer there in Gallton for a long time. And so I worked there for two years, paid off all my student loan debt, and had a little bit of money in the bank, went back and finished my final year in TSU. So then after I graduated, I went to work as a, of all things, a claims adjuster for an insurance company. So I went on the inside to learn how they, the insurers, analyze claims. And so that experience really kicked it into high gear for me to get into law. And so after I quit the insurance adjusting job, I went to Knife Law School and worked for a lawyer during the day, went to school at Nike. So uh from the time I graduated high school, I've I've been employed and consistently tried to align whatever work I'm doing with whatever that next step might be. Yeah. And so that one year as a flames adjuster really gave me an insider's view of how insurance companies evaluate claims, deny claims, so not at the same time expose their weaknesses, which I exploit every day that I help my clients with.

Austin Moody

Sure. That's uh that's pretty much as a m as American hustle as it gets right there. Working full full time and then going to school and trying to balance all that and also studying. Which I can't relate to. I went to audio engineering school, but I mean to become a lawyer, it's extremely difficult. I'm sure. I mean did you sleep?

SPEAKER_04

Uh sometimes. No, it it uh it's like anything else. You know, I look in other people to do things at high like writing a song, performing on stage. You know, we all have our flesh with our talents, but finding whatever that is, and if it really speeds to you, you're gonna find a way to be you we as human beings, we do what we want to do. And if you have a bigger picture in mind and a goal and there's a path before you, you just you do it. Like people train for a triathlon, perhaps. I've never done that, but it's just crazy the the what they get accustomed to to be able to compete. And so I would say law school or any other kind of endeavor is the same. You you know, you're you'll spend the hours that that's really what you want to do. And after a while it becomes it it starts clicking, and it's like anything else, every day is a battle, but after you get that one behind you, you capitalize on it because you've been in that trench before. Yeah. And just keep going. That's probably the best way I can describe it.

Austin Moody

Was there somebody, your dad or another family member, or somebody in your life that you feel like guided you to have that type of mindset to be dedicated to something, you know, from work to going to school to completion, all of that? Where does that come from?

SPEAKER_04

I would say it probably is my dad because he had worked as a truck driver much of my youth, and then when I was in probably fifth grade, he bought his own truck and became an independent and whole livestock. So that you know, being a 10-year-old and loading up a load of cattle and driving it to Indiana and dropping them off in the dead of night at a barn out in the middle of nowhere is an adventure. And then you're going 30 miles up the road and loading up hogs and then coming back to get them to the slaughterhouse by 5 a.m. So it was a real dedicated thing that I was exposed to from my dad's work hey. But I remember, you know, he would sometimes come home, he'd be so tired, he'd just lay down on his forearm in the floor and just sleep and then get up, take a shower, and go do it again. But he did that over and over. But I think, you know, he was doing that for the love of his family and to provide an income. And so I think just exposure to hardworking people, people on the baby shop, good night, they're there they got 5 a.m. and they don't close until 9 30 p.m. Then they're back the next day doing it. So just I think really being around people that had a strong work ethic and doing something that benefited their community, that I really stuckens me.

Nontraditional School And Insurance Insider View

Austin Moody

Wow. So after you went to work you went to work for the attorney that you were working for after after you finished school, you're working for the end of the how how long after that did you start your own practice? Well, for more what led what led to that? What made you want to start your own thing?

SPEAKER_04

I worked for I worked for one lawyer for four years all the way through law school. And at the conclusion, it was it's like anything else. Do you want to keep pursuing someone else's dream or do you want to pursue your own? So as soon as I passed the bar exam, I went and hung a shingle and went to work for myself. Through those four years I had the reports and being exposed to other lawyers within the per personal injury world. And this medical malpractice lawyer called me, knowing that I had worked for this other lawyer for four years. I think the consistent employment through those four years made my stock rise, perhaps. And so I had only been in practice for eight weeks on my own when this second lawyer comes and makes me an offer that I couldn't refuse. And with my wife being bringing up twins by that point, I thought, you know, I've already s seen that I can do this well on my own, but it'd be another whole layer of exposure to a more complex set of personal injury law by working with this medical malpractice lawyer. So I closed up shop and went to work for him for another three years. So that's seven years, if you want to look at it on a timeline, four years while in school doing one set of personal injury, which is workers' compensation, social security disability, and personal injury from car wrecks, slipping paws. But now you're into this complex litigation of medical malpractice. They're in the same area, but they're one is we look at it like a pyramid, it's the next layer. So I can always go back and open my own shop, but I thought three more years with dedicated floor. Where you're learning something might be beneficial. So I had one year as an gesture and seven years with other lawyers before I really hung a shingle for myself. So it was about an eight-year grind to finally have the confidence and the financial stability to jump out there and do it for myself and have have done that, have a chance. So but 32, 33, L. I was thirty. I was thirty-three whenever I started home out dinner.

Austin Moody

Dang. It's my age. So wow, that's crazy. So what I know a line 66. So what what does it take? I mean, to start your own practice. I mean, you know, that was a while a minute ago, but financially, is it kind of a I mean you got you got kids at this point in a while, people to provide for, you know. You gotta think about how am I gonna get my clients, all the things. It's like a it's a pretty big step because nobody's there to save you, you know, if it doesn't work. So what does all that look like when you were kind of developing your own thing, stepping out to your own?

SPEAKER_04

That's a I would say the the biggest challenge was breaking free of the mentors that I had and to now declare I'm an equal to you and I'm gonna compete against you. That was a little bit of a challenge because one of the two was very oppressive in that you know, you want to remind me he does what he does, and I'm me, and you you don't have the same cloud or experience I had. So it's like anything else, it's noise. I'd say probably tuning out the noise and just following what you what you really are meant to do. It will the doors just start opening that you can't perceive. You just have to jump in there and just start doing it. But uh working for someone, I'd done that my whole life, but the whole idea to go to law school to begin with was to work for myself. So it's just a natural progression. But I think having an eight-year foundation is really what served me well, patience and and knowing that it was the right time. I knew after my first stint for eight weeks that yeah, I can do this, but I'm leading on the table perhaps a skill set on a higher level that I may not be exposed to, and it would be way too difficult to do that by oneself doing a med mal type case. So just I think seeking exposure to the full realm of what personal injury is, and then deciding now's the the right time after an eight-year foundation of experience.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Austin Moody

So, I mean, there's somebody out there that may be, you know, in the same realm of you and thinking about stepping in into their own thing. I'm sure there was a bunch of maysayers, people that said you couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_04

No, they haven't just done it.

SPEAKER_03

There's a whole bunch of them. Yeah. Yeah.

Austin Moody

So what would you say to yourself if you could go back to that moment where you're I mean, obviously you were kind of or you know, determined to step out of into your own be going back, what would you say to your 32-year-old self, 33-year-old self?

Mentors, Med Mal Practice, Going Solo

SPEAKER_04

Stay the course. Tune out the noise. You know, if you if you it is truly your calling, you know, and you put yourself out there. I've often said people that are in a in a in an arena of like I I I'm really drawn to a boxer. They they get all the glory if they win, but man, if they let if they lower that guard down just a little bit and take one to the chin and they're knocked out. Yeah, it's humiliating, but it might really, it's a less. And uh I think being unafraid to getting punched or getting knocked down is is as much a part of it. It's just uh it's as much a mind game as it is and it following and doing. It's it's the full package, but I think one must be mentally strong and be willing to, you know. Quoting a book that uh I bought about six months ago and about three chapters in that it's the courage to be disliked. If you got the courage to be disliked, entrepreneurship is the path.

SPEAKER_02

Sure. I like that. I need that book.

Austin Moody

So I wanna I want to get into talking about a certain case, and my grandfather kind of reminded me of something he said. He said, Men don't choose their hardest battles, they're drafted into them. And what what was the defining moment in your life when you went out on your own that kind of set the next stage and course for your life? And I think it was the case with the with the mother that reached out to you about the man that was wrongly killed in prison. You touch on that a little bit.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. So civil rights law is it's an area of personal injury, and this was a wrongful death case. And if my dad wasn't driving a truck, he worked as a at an airplane factory here in Nashville. It's gone through various name changes, but they built air fleeing wings, the B-1 bomber. All those wings were sent right here in Nashville. So my dad would bounce between government contracts working at the airplane factory for being a truck ride. Well, later in life he came off the road and was working, and one of the employees that he supervised became a client of mine for a work injury. Well, years later she called me and she had a son that was in the penitentiary for a parole violation. He had schizophrenia and never had a condition for a bile fraud. This criminal episode started with him being a teenager and setting a trash can on fire. Well, then he got sent into juvenile detention, then he escaped. It really kind of mirrored a Merle Hagar's story. His mother was a single mom, but having the mental illness and watching through the years, she'd call me occasionally and say, Well, Jane, I don't do that kind of work, but you might want to consider this. I try to put her in touch with people. Because Jason was troubled in prison. I'll let say this. It all led up to one night where he was having a schizophrenic episode and he was drawn, uh pulled out of the cell, and uh the there were five members of the cell extraction team that pulled him out, and his infraction was taking water and blowing it through a straw onto the guard. There's quarter-size wet spot on this guard's sure. So he goes and assembles the cell extraction team to drag him out. For what, I don't know, but uh because taking him out of the cell, to do what I put him in handcuffs and put him in another cell. It just, you know, there are all kinds of ways that it could have been dealt with appropriately. But unfortunately, Jason was at the bottom of a pile of five men. The first one weighed 473 pounds, and the whole time it's on video and saying I can't breathe. Fast forward, we took that case and took it to a two-week trial in federal court, lost the case, but Jane would not stop. She hired or gave an interview to a New York Times reporter who uncovered evidence that we had asked for three different ways, and we had taken 24 depositions, which meant the entire case took a detour because we're asking for this, and they said this is all there is, but there was a piece of paper, one piece of paper that was pulled out, but we were able to prove this, and we were able to get a new trial. And so being able to expose the underhandedness of big government covering up something that would easily have changed the direction of the case, not saying we'd have won that trial, but it would have affected every single deposition. And so the injustice was the government holding back that information we had asked for, and we discovered it after the fact. We got a new trial two weeks before the second trial case settled for the full value. Well, during that same time period, I was in kidney failure and had a transplant. So that was that was the moment when, you know, it the resilience of facing a I call it sailing into a thunderstorm. When you know you're and you have a medical condition that's only going to get worse as you age, we were working that case during the decline of my health. We got word that the case settled while I was at Banderville Hospital right after the transplant. So it was an eight and a half year journey.

Austin Moody

You told that in three minutes. So but this this is a case you'd you had never at this point handled anything like this, right?

Tuning Out Naysayers And Owning The Dream

SPEAKER_04

I never tried a case in federal court of that. But the key was is knowing who you can call on. For me to sit here and tell you any of this that I've discussed is all alone would be it's just not correct. Uh you know, you have to rely upon a community of people that who have been there, done that. You learn from them, and they learn from you, and it's you know, iron sharpens iron. So I found I found the best civil rights lawyers in Nashville to co-counsel with me on the case, and you know, there's no way I was working that case as diligently as I was on the first part of the trial because my health just wouldn't allow it. So but that's where the the team effort came came and got her across the goal on it.

Austin Moody

Yeah. So when when this grieving mother came to you with this You had never done a case like this. What what made you take it on? Was it just knowing no one else was going to? Or was it was it a just a feeling you had where you you know it was dumped on your lap and you go, I've got to be the one to push this forward?

SPEAKER_04

I f you know, I probably the best way to answer that is it's when I interview folks like you who are songwriters, what was the inspiration for that song? How'd you grab that and turn it into something so beautiful? The tie-in is this I couldn't look myself in the mirror knowing that this lady, of all the lawyers in Nashville in Middle Tennessee, she called me. It starts with a level of trust. And even though it's not what I do, I couldn't just send her down the road because I knew there was injustice and she was looking for assistance, and the best I could do at that point is pair her up with somebody that had been there done that. But I was fortunate enough to stay on the case with them. But I couldn't I wouldn't have been able to look myself in the mirror if I had said no to somebody that was that close to my family. I'd represented her on another matter before. It would have been um it would have been an insult to her. And, you know, if I had the s skill and the resources and the context to be able to help her, it was what should have been done. That's that's why we kept it and stayed all the way on until eight and a half years later until it concluded.

Austin Moody

So with the kidney failure happening, Wench one touched on that because your wife Delta gave up on hers, so you could get one.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

Austin Moody

When that eight years when it when did that start taking place?

SPEAKER_04

It is probably about the six-year mark. Kidney, uh I had a genetic disease that my dad, my uncle, my aunt, and my cousin, so there are five of us that had had the genetic disease. I got diagnosed with it my first year of law school. But it's one of those things that over time it it's a progressive disease, and some people live their entire lives with it and never have any problems. But mine really kicked into high gear, probably about the six-year mark of this case. By this time, the case is already over and done with, and we're trying to slug it out in the appeals court saying, hey, there's an injustice here. There's clearly evidence that they hid from us, we're entitled to a new trial. So I think we were about six years in on the case, and so for the next two and a half years, I'm facing kidney decline, which leads to either dialysis transplant or death. And so I was able to avoid dialysis because my wife did a donate, and she's not the same blood type, but she donated to someone in Utah, and that person had a willing donor that matched me, so it was a cross match. So my wife gave a kidney so I could receive one.

Austin Moody

That's so great as gift anybody can ever give you.

SPEAKER_03

I'm playing in overtime right now.

Drafted Into The Hardest Case

Austin Moody

That's amazing, man. Well, and that this is you know uh really a testament, and then I didn't plan on necessarily going into this, but like you and Delta's relationship, husband, wife, obviously as a massive sacrifice uh for her, but she wouldn't say it was a sacrifice. Let's talk about if you're if you're good with it, girl's relationship and how you've as a man maintained a grade marriage with with Delta. You know, there's gonna be some men listening to this that that need this type of uh advice.

SPEAKER_04

You're kind or and you you know Delta. We've traveled together and gone to shows and so she's a a known person to you, so I'll try to share the best I can and I appreciate the your observation. Like any marriage man, it's it's we have our challenges, but I think for us we were we we met the semester that I went back to finish up my final year MTSU. So she had been there as a traditional student for three years, and I think we met each other maybe once or twice. I think it's just one of those one of those moments of quoting from the godfather when Michael is in Italy and he has the lightning bolt. I just something about when Delta and I met 33 years ago, it just stuck. And we just had each other's back and supported each other. And it's it's the greatest thing, if you find that person, you know, we all are seeking companionship, we're all seeking love, all the things that human beings need. We need a connection and boundaries. But if you've got that and you found it and it's greater than anything else that you've had up to that point, why would one play around with that? It's it's just it's I wouldn't I wouldn't do anything to intentionally offend or harm a friend. But so why would I even consider doing that to what I consider my best friend? And so she and I both met, I I would say, on an equal plane of we both wanted the same thing. And if you really care about maintaining that relationship and growing, that's probably the best that's probably the best thing that I can describe about how our age works. And but uh but but to but to have her stand by me going through that storm of life of kidney failure and then stepping up to volunteer to give me a kidney, that's yeah, the greatest gift I've ever received outside of my two sons.

Cell Extraction Death And First Trial Loss

Austin Moody

Yeah. So ha as a man, once you guys had a had a a good runway, I mean you met met early, that's a benefit. You're both young, and and you had a long runway and a ramp up to your going out on your own, starting business. But when you started the business and you became an entrepreneur in your own right, starting the law practice, and then you know you had you had bigger dreams, you you wanted to create a space, you had this vision for building this space, all of that, plus you got two boys at the same time you're raising. I mean, when you own your own business, it takes a lot of time and a lot of time away. And how do you balance building the business and also maintaining your marriage and also being a present of father? That's a lot to balance and match, and I'm sure there's trial and error, but if I know anybody that's got it right, it's you. And so I mean, I see you guys together, you're like high school sweethearks. You got two fine boys just gradu graduated college and you've built this place and maintained a law practice. It's that's what everybody is, you know. So now we probably gotta give credit to Delta because she's probably got a lot of patience. But in a and you know, that that's it that's what's interesting to me is you've you've been and uh and I'm not saying it was perfect. I'm sure I'm sure it wasn't. And and you know, like the old men tell me, life hard, life's hard, having a baby's hard, getting married's hard, building business is hard, but you you done all that and maintained everything. You've started. So like when times did get tough and there was stress with the business, when you're building things, you know, kinda o outside of, you know, your family unit in a sense.

SPEAKER_02

What what's your advice for maintaining your home life and your unit?

SPEAKER_04

Well, first of all, thank you. You're very kind and you're observation how you you see us as a couple really everything we talk about it anything anybody does like is hard working for someone is hard grinding and reading and book for hours on end is hard it really comes down to this you have to choose what your part is and go after that because every day is a challenge so I guess the balance really it comes down to this and it it just keeping an open line of communication voicing of what the dream is for each one of us individually and then aligning with that I would say communication and alignment with your thoughts and your goals it uh it's it's I won't say that simple but you know there's a there's a whole lot that Delta has to bite her lip and not say anything about but when she does she certainly lets me know but it's it's a give and take and you I think one must decide okay well I can blow it up and I can be back out there and I know we each can land on our feet and find another spouse, girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever that may be but you just have to decide is it is it worth is this emotional moment that I'm feeling right now worth blowing up everything if we've been painting tool and so as much as one can tap into the emotions of love and care and respect you also have to balance counterbalance that with you know looking in the mirror and realizing look this is this is not about me we're pushed by we build something and maintain something and grow something bigger than ourselves and that translates into grazing children and and now at this point raiding a dog. So now we argue over taste dog. So different seasonal wide but I I would say communication and aligning in your thoughts and views are what the future might hold.

Austin Moody

Yeah so but you keep with your boys what's once what's the what was the what did you try to stablish in them early on to help develop them into young men with a good work ethic was it kind of they got to watch you you know build your build what you built you know and kind of be there to watch dad do that and get to experience that or was it were you a little more direct about your approach with raising boys?

Hidden Evidence, New Trial, And Settlement

SPEAKER_04

I would say the the approach for Delta me was to include our kids. You know Delta and I both grew up in in working class households and we always had dreams and aspirations to do more with our lives to travel and that sort of thing. So we left and said that you know as soon as we were able to have the ability to go travel and see other parts of the world I think we only did maybe two vacations with other couples that didn't include our kids all the way up until they got out of college. So being inclusive not only just in the fun parts but in work. I remember I had my first uh the groan for death case that I tried in Rothford County and my boys were four years old and Delta they died. It immersed them early on in what I do. Yeah. So to make to make anything that you do a family affair I think is probably the thing and it is if we've got to go do something to help my parents move. Well I was going to go visit with Michael this weekend. Bellow you're 12 years old you get on the business end of that dress just like I can if you're going to help us. So I think keeping I think inclusivity is part of parenting letting them see what you do. Me going on the road with my dad at 10 years old seeing how cattle and hogs turn into breakfast and real food. Yeah. You know, being able to experience that being immersed in what my dad did probably is what Delta and I carried forward. Just like her parents they were very involved if they were doing lead raking or going to see their family in Mississippi for you know somebody needs to be put into a nursing home we've got to help them move their furniture in including our kids in every step of what we do not all the time but to the extent that you can. So Delta bringing them to sit in the audience of the the trial and going and being immersive in whatever chore that is facing the family at that moment. I think that inclusiveness is what really was a part of the fiber of our being and as parents.

Austin Moody

Yeah well that's uh yeah I guess I can say the same thing about my dad you know it's not that he sat me down and and told me a bunch of life lessons but I got to work with him got to work on the farm with him got to work on trucks with him you know and he just I was just there, you know, watching you know I used to want to be diesel mechanic and then when I uh fixed up my first truck he made me do it all. He showed me how to work on 1990 250 and after that I didn't want to be diesel mechanic no more. You know so it's kind of lessons like that. It wasn't necessarily well that was direct because he knew you know it all sounded cool right before you know when I tore into it and did it all and that wasn't my thing. Plus I was dating this girl we won't say her name but uh she she grabbed my hands in high school and she goes I'd rather have musician hands than diesel mechanic hands That was your mom's right dick. So Jeff what was your biggest double wet moment in your life?

Kidney Failure, Transplant, And Resilience

SPEAKER_04

Probably the day that my point of law partner announced that he was leaving and taking the cases with him that we didn't discuss. I have a 20% kidney function so yeah either quit or you don't so dang I went from being a partner to in a small firm to being a solo in one day. So you took from there was nine years ago was that like a wavelifted off no it was like an elephant standing on my chest cause I had 20% kidney function I got twin 16 year old boys I'm trying to get through high school but then I'm in my mid forties trying to buy a health issue and maintain a household being the provider. So there's you know it's like anything else like is gonna deal you know setbacks and but uh there's you either you either submit to whatever the environment's throwing at you or you adapt and uh you either quit or you don't so that was my don't quit moment so back to the wrongful death case with Jason what did it feel like calling Jason's mom and tell her justice was going to be served man that was uh I remember that call I was laying in the hospital bed at Vanderbilt and I called her to tell her there won't be a trial. Of course this has gone this has gone through many variations of the case getting dismissed and then put back on and then losing the case and so it was a roller coaster ride for everybody involved but that day I just remember going this this journey is finally coming to an end right at the same time I'm dealing with a health issue. So that's why it stood out so much in my mind that that hanging on to that case and going through that at the same time of trying to get justice for her and deal with my own personal health issue and it all culminated at the exact same moment. So I paid the call from Vanderbilt Hospital and the tellers. So that was uh is probably uh not on the same level but near the same level of realizing I had a kidney that was a match and so much was unburdened had a so close in time and that's what prompted the need to tell the story is sometimes you you just gotta get it out and so I wrote the article of that journey during COVID because I had time on my hands and I thought always just capture this moment and put it into something that I can get some mental relief by telling the story.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Austin Moody

So if you would have quit after that first trial a lot of things wouldn't have happened.

SPEAKER_04

So with the state burying evidence and all this we had touch on this but what followed after you won this case or justice serve the state actually completely redeveloped how they handle these cell extractions cell extractions yeah yeah yeah it was a lack of training but I probably the moment that really was a proud moment for me personally when when you're trying to seek justice getting answers sometimes seeking justice is not just a money result it's getting the answers and putting people in a position you were there you experienced it are you telling a consistent story but whenever you take 24 depositions and people are all over the board because they're trying to fudge and you know they're trying to fudge the the one deposition that stood out in my mind was this prison warden and the question was asked in his deposition how many of these cases have you been a party to that you've had to defend? And it is somewhere in 51 and he smiled just like we're on camera now he smiled at the camera and he said we want every one of them which means people either got harmed severely or died because of their procedures and he felt he was gloating in that moment and to be able to he he he was terminated shortly after this case was filed and that's where they put a lot of scrutiny on the procedure. So I haven't you know I don't do many of these cases uh since then but to think that if they are going about it in a more a slower and more deliberate way and training the people to do things the appropriate way instead of just opening a door and snatching somebody out and s smothering them to death that's really what this was justice in my mind was served not just with the delivery of a a check to compensate Jane but to smile and know, yeah 51 and one you know you lost this one because it was it was time for some kind of change to occur with how they dealt with those types of unruly inmates. There's a w way to handle it but there's certainly a way not to handle it and we shone some light on that.

Austin Moody

Yeah.

Marriage, Loyalty, And Choosing Your Hard

Parenting Through Inclusion And Work

SPEAKER_04

It's one thing to get that's a totally other thing to change the system why do you why do you think these people were not telling the true story was it they were trying to protect themselves or they were afraid of the consequences intimidation because these you know and I have great respect for people who do corrections and law enforcement and that's part of it. What was so enlightening to me was many of the experts that I hired are people in that arena and they're when they're volunteering to give you don't quote me on this but this is what happened and what shouldn't have happened. So when you've got people that are immersed in that for decades who are career law enforcement or corrections telling you there's this is not right I can't believe these people are drawing a line and say and not paying you and get this thing put behind them. But we found out after all the depositions and after the trial this is still in that period where we didn't know that there was hidden evidence we did some post-trial interviews Jane reached out to some of the prison guards that were there and but they told us they were all huddled into one room said you want to be a solo go hire your own lawyer but if you want to have the state defending you you'll you'll sing off this sheet of music that we're telling you this is the way it's going to be so when you when you hear that kind of stuff and little did they know that we were gearing up to we didn't know at that time but when when those types of things are exposed to you and you realize what was really going on and they're hiding evidence it just makes you double down and go, no I'm I'm just I don't know where this is going but we're we're gonna we're gonna shine a bigger light on this now that we know what we're really looking at. We turned the whole case into being against the prosecutor who hid the evidence and we were going to make a little trial about him. Unfortunately he died one month before we could depose him so I think the stress of all things he was a 32 year government employee attorney general and I think once he realized that we knew what the real story was I I don't I'm not going to go there that far but but it really it really ramped up a lot of pressure that helped us to realize what we were really doing with but I think the intimidation factor is what motivated them these guys are are they want to do their job and go home and and unfortunately they were coerced or intimidated into saying doing things that they really knew they shouldn't but they were really in a tough spot and it was compounded by the fact that their employer was the very governmental agency that had hidden the evidence and led them down the wrong path. And all this broke free from the whistleblower right well what happened was the New York Times reporter interviewed one of the cell extraction members who was operating a video camera. So he didn't touch Jason but he captured all the documentary evidence which is part of their procedure they have two cameramen that they capture every bit of the cell extraction well this particular corrections officer had been a police officer in a prior job so he was a little more trained on some things than his colleagues were and after we lost the trial he came forward and reached out to Jane or vice versa got in touch with the New York Times reporter and what had happened was he had given a resignation letter talking about all the things that they had done wrong in the cell extraction and that was very damaging evidence and he couldn't open up to this in a deposition but he said if you'll find my resignation letter it'll tell the story well we had asked for it three different ways and they said there is no resignation letter just like like the age of the hall we've got security cameras but they were turned off at that moment and so you know you know you're you're it's like a glass seat and you're poking you're poking you're pushing you you're trying to bring through but the machine was so big and you're dealing with the government but but for some people with good hearts and conscience and we would we still may never know the truth but that fella came forward gave us the the playbook really if what was really going once we let the AG know here here's the it's a sad commentary for a person to get to the end of their 32 year career diagnosed with terminal cancer coming out of a knockdown drag out two week federal trial that he won only to have it revealed yeah but you cheated and we said great instead of the 24 and the warden let's talk about you now let's put you on the hot seat and let's explain how you explained to this guy who's already said under oath yeah he told me to you know pull that out this guy who was the cameraman that did the resignation letter his name is David Aminetti he's dead now but that guy who broke open the case was just like so he is like I couldn't believe I thought you all the most incompetent lawyers on the planet I made it sure you know the state keeps everything he gave it to three different people on his way out the door about how they covered it up and da da da da da this is the most damning letter. I mean I I can tell you I was on the Dillard's escalator when the fing my phone bing to Jane had that letter and said why did you not ask for this I said I mean I'm giving you the the cherry on top version. No Jane was like I trusted you I thought you'd at least be able to Jane I knew that case spoiled him backward I said we asked for three different plays well get back in front of my computer and I'll show you then we and then turn that into the clerk but it but it now excuses it because David is like what the how stupid are y'all this is a low-hanging fruit we asked for it we asked for any and all written documentation of anybody that witnessed it who was a cell extraction team member you know what'd you see here touch taste any memoranda I mean we we cross threaded it three different ways and then you know when he when you do your case like that and you say we asked for it here's what they said it doesn't exist and now here it is after the fact is a layup it wasn't a it wasn't a three-corner with a hook you know from mid-court and switch no this was just a this is easy wow it's easy for the judge to make that decision when it's revealed that the nefarious nature which they went to go out of the way covered up yeah at that point so we gotcha it's hand in the cookie jar well it turned out we didn't see this it was that it was that but that's where but I was out of gas yeah and kidney if I'm not going I don't do civil rights cases I've I've tried to hand it off to other people but it's just one of those things that just it's like the quote that you said from your was it your uncle Brandon Brandon yeah man you just you realize okay you I see the value and I can't let it go it's well you know man I've I've talked more about this case right now than I have in years it's it and it's like anything else after a two week trial to get the other lawyer on board once I discovered this like dude we can't let go of this now he's like going dude it's taken me 10 months just to get over this freaking case because you're dealing with the it's a snuff film. I mean you're having to analyze a guy who's snowing best popping like a fish I can't breathe I can't breathe and you know and quit moving and they're pushing hard you know and that weighed 473 pounds is just grinding him in and they're like it's like they were trying I'm gonna kill him.

Austin Moody

Yeah. Well it's a sad situation, but I'm glad there was some kind of there was justice served and you got some stuff changed around for the future.

SPEAKER_04

Thanks. I but I I I'll say this the two the compelling part was it was a case again about mental illness, not you know what he did, you know, he this guy it was while he was on work release as a trustee up in Summer County, they had him out there working, you know, doing the trimming the bushes and such. Well, somebody had parked a van, and if it's just because the guy was crying out to be noticed and to be like Beavis and Butthead, he jumped behind the wheel and drives the van one mile up the road and it charged him with escape, which was a parole violation. His escape was joy riding in a van. Now I'm not minimizing that. He needed to be punished, but to put him in prison for 30 years for setting a trash can on fire, getting, you know, put into a reform school, and then when he's 18, they're like going, okay, you're incorrigible, we're gonna put you in jail, and then he escaped, and then it's just a way to just get him out of the system and put him in prison. I don't know if I'd have been as passionate about the case if he'd have been a deviant or you know, but it just it things align, so you're going, uh, he was gonna turn him out in two years. You know, he would have served his time and then back out on the street, but it was more of a mental health issue than it was a a hardened criminal.

Austin Moody

There's not enough health for for folks like that. Yeah. What's one thing every man listening needs to hear about standing up when life gets hard?

SPEAKER_04

It's like I said earlier, you have to choose your hard. Life is hard. You know, everybody defines difficulty in their own way, whatever that life experience may be, whether it's a health issue, a relationship issue. I think within oneself one must look and decide what am I willing to endure and let it compound or find a way to fight back. It's like being put into a corner. Once you're in a corner, you either just submit or you fight back. And it's amazing for me in my life what doors are open when I've decided I'm not just gonna take this, I'm gonna keep going forward, and it kills me. Subs gonna kill me in time anyway, whether it's a disease or an accident or whatever. But if you just having that that determination to to not quit.

Austin Moody

Yeah. Choice. Either do you or you don't, I guess. Yeah. So I can't live with the one own.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. The fear I've also found to to for me to sit here and tell you my story, yeah, there were many times I was afraid. Being able to control the fear and to channel it. You know, our our friend Max T. Barnes, it just fascinates me how like a forest fire will uh destroy much of the forest, but there's always new growth. And I'm drawing from the song of the year, Chiseled the Stone, that Max's dad wrote. Max has an older brother that died in a car accident. And Max's dad channeled that grief into a new story in a new piece of art called Chisel and the Stone that tells a very unique story of a man that he's going off to the bar as a drowning the sauce because he's got trouble back home. And the man deciding at the bar says you don't know what lonely is until he's chiseling some. But taking that terrible event losing his son and telling a whole new story, it's like the green growth after a four star. And so being able to find where is the value in the suffering is uh is the way full of great song.

SPEAKER_02

Say it many times in a lot of bars.

Austin Moody

So tell us about this Tammy Wynette poster, because I don't remember her having like air.

Don’t Quit Moment: Partner Walks Out

SPEAKER_04

The my next door neighbor is an art store, Shaw Bay Arts here in the Fifth Avenue of the Arts District. I bought that because uh Max Barnes and I met and I needed an expert. So a childhood friend of mine comes to me and says, Will you help me with my father's estate? And by the way, he discovered Tammy Wynette. Oh, well, okay, yeah. What have you got to prove that your dad discovered Tamil Annette? Turns out this client had found in his dad's belongings in the back of his house a filing cabinet that had eight real to real tapes of Tamil Yannette from IQ sixty five. They were the earliest known reportings of Tammy Wynette in the studio. So I knew I was sitting on something that would be valuable and beneficial for the estate, but I needed an expert. And Max was hired as the expert that helped navigate a forward to get that asset developed for the estate to develop itself. And so I thought it was only appropriate when I was in there. You parsed one, I saw that, that this had to hang prominently in the boardroom because that was my connection to the collaborator on the board room.

SPEAKER_02

Dang it.

Austin Moody

I didn't know Tamiya had a tattoo, but apparently she did.

SPEAKER_04

Perhaps the artist took a lot of license with with that painting, but I thought it uh I thought it fit nicely with the story of what the barroom is.

Austin Moody

Well, Matt, thanks for being on the show today. I'm sure we'll do this again here a few more months, but y'all stay tuned. We're gonna be showing a lot of behind-the-scenes footage, what Jeff's building here at the Bardroom, and might be having some events here next year. So thanks for being on, man. Thank you for having me. Y'all, if Jeff's story proves anything, it's that you don't lose when life hits you. You lose when you stop swinging. Stand up for the truth, keep your word, finish the fight. Thanks for listening to American Hustle. We'll see y'all next time.