Permission to Parent Differently: Burnout, Regulation, and Finding Your Voice with Lisa Galley

Lisa Galley built her career in autism the long way round: studying part time, raising three children, sitting her finals at nine months pregnant, and working in high-pressure NHS autism outreach before burnout took it all away. What followed was years of frightening physical symptoms, a diagnosis of chronic fatigue syndrome, and a profound loss of identity. What she built on the other side was something she never planned: a community, a business, and now a book.

In this episode, Dr Emma Offord and Lisa explore what parental burnout really looks like when it is severe, somatic, and relentlessly minimised by the medical system. They talk about regulation-first parenting, why beige food and unlimited screens are not lazy choices but genuine nervous system tools, and why the instincts parents already have are so often buried under shame and social pressure. Lisa also shares the story of her daughter, identified as autistic only in adulthood, and what that taught her about quiet masking and the cost of being told you are the good one.

This is also a conversation about bravery. The courage to advocate differently when colleagues, critics, and old professional identities are watching. Lisa's debut book, Parenting Your Autistic Child: Permission to Do It Differently (Penguin Random House, August 2026), is exactly what the title promises: not a manual, but a permission slip.

If you have ever felt judged for parenting your way, dismissed when you knew something was wrong, or like burnout had taken everything you worked for, this episode is for you.

Connect with Lisa: Instagram: @schoolrunmumautism
Find the Autism Parenting Revolution membership at Lisa's website. Pre-order Parenting Your Autistic Child: Permission to Do It Differently (Penguin Random House, 27 August 2026).

Connect with Divergent Lives:
 Instagram: @divergentlives Website: divergentlife.co.uk 
Free 15-minute consultation: hello@divergentlife.co.uk

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Hi, this is Dr. Emma Offitt, host of This Voice is Mine, the Unquiet Podcast. For every neurodivergent mind that was masked, misread, or missed, where identity is reclaimed and the system gets named. This Voice is mine is a podcast for those who were told they were too much, too sensitive, too chaotic, too intense or not enough. Hosted by myself, Dr. Emma Offed, a clinical psychologist, neurodivergent woman, and unapologetic system disruptor. This podcast explores what happens when difference is pathologized and what becomes possible when we drop the shame, the script, and the medical model through stories, reflections, and conversations with people who were never meant to fit. This Voice is Mine reclaims the truth of neurodivergent minds, bodies and ways of being. This is not about fixing or fitting in. It's about remembering who we are and unlearning everything they got wrong. My guest today is Lisa Galley. Lisa is an autism consultant, former speech and language therapist, author, and mum to three autistic adults. As a discal cool little woman raising a neurodivergent family, her personal and professional worlds have always been closely intertwined. After experiencing profound parental burnout and eventually having to leave her clinical career due to burnout, Lisa began sharing her experiences online. Many people will know her through her account School Run Mum Autism, where she challenges traditional parenting narratives and encourages a regulation-first, guilt-free approach to raising autistic children. She is also the founder of Autism Parenting Revolution, a membership community supporting parents who want to step outside compliance culture and parent in ways that prioritise safety, understanding and relationship. Her forthcoming book, Parenting Your Autistic Child, Permission to Do It Differently, will be published by Penguin Random House in August 2006. Welcome, Lisa.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

So before we get stuck in, um would you mind just telling our listeners a little bit about who you are, what you do?

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Yep, no worries. Um so where to start? Yeah, so first and foremost, I'm a mum, so three autistic um grown-up children. I still call them my babies, even though they're fully grown. Um, and yeah, I'm a former speech and language therapist, um, but now I have um a business that I run predominantly online. Um, and that was kind of an accidental business, really. It started out as something for me to do after I'd left my career. Um, it just grew and grew to the point where we had this community around us, and I realised one day I was I was growing something that that was actually going to be my career now, and so I support um parents of Audistic Children through um my membership, The Audison Parit and Revolution, um, and also we have some online courses and things like that as well. Um, and yeah, so that's me, and and it's so lovely to hear you call me an author because that still feels surreal at the moment. So I spent the last 12 months um writing my book.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

Amazing. I was I was trying to get hold of it, but obviously we can't get hold of it until August. I got that right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

But it's um pre-order, but it's um publication is the 27th of August.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

That's that sounds amazing. So you were a speech and language therapist. Was that your first career?

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Um, sort of. So um shall I start from the beginning and tell you kind of where my career kind of went because it's all a little bit, it's all kind of mixed together, really. So I had my first child when I was 18, so I was a a baby myself really. Um, and very much felt like I needed to prove myself to everybody because as supporters of my family were, I was very aware that kind of the narrative was oh, she's ruined her life now. Um, so I was so adamant that I had to to do something, have a career, and at the time obviously I had a new baby, so I started a degree with the Open University, did a psychology degree. Um, and over sort of eight years of having my family have my other children, did it part-time, and then thought, well, now what? What do I want to do now? Um, and did my final exams actually when I was nine months pregnant. Um, and so from that point, um my youngest son was born, and that's when our life changed really. He was very different to my other children, even though they're all autistic. Um, and so career-wise, I was aware I couldn't actually go out to work at that point. I I needed to be looking after him full-time. So I thought, right, I need to study more because I I'm a big believer that knowledge is power, and um and so I started um a qualification at Birmingham Birmingham University, and it was um autism studies. So I think it was one of the first autism-specific studies that were around at the time in the early 2000s. So I did that um and then worked as um an assistant, speech and language therapy assistant at a residential school for autistic children. Absolutely loved it, and that's when my um colleagues there were really supportive and encouraged me to to go off and study um for my to be a speech and language therapist. So I did that while the kids were were still quite little. Um, and then that's where well I worked as part of an autism outreach team. Um, it was kind of like a pilot um project working in mainstream schools um with children, autistic children that were at risk of exclusion. So it was very high sort of stress, very sort of um, we were like the last sport of call, really. Um so did that for a while and then actually kind of did the reverse things that many speech therapists do. I then went into the NHS and went more general as opposed to going general and then being very specific. So um worked for the NHS and community clinics, um, ended up working in special schools anyway because that was something I was interested in. So still quite specific working with autistic children, and then catastrophically hit burnout and had to step away from my career, which for me was devastating because I'd worked so hard to get to that point, it taked me that bit longer to do it, not the traditional route, um, that it just felt I felt devastated. So um, so that's that's a very convoluted explanation of how I got to to be a speech therapist and how I had to step away.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

That's an incredible, incredible story. You know, it's hearing you saying that at nine months you were doing your exams at nine months pregnant. Sorry, you were doing your exams and and you build this career and you've you've got children, and clearly there's some additional needs as well with with your children, and so you're juggling all of that, and then you have to step away from it. And I I could just imagine how heartbreaking that could have been for you.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Yeah, it was really hard, and also I was very unwell, so yeah, my husband had to care for me for about three months. Um so the whole dynamics of our family changed. Um, like you say, with having still having three children that had additional needs, although they were older, it was it was a very difficult family life at the time.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Yeah. I mean, so many people talk about burnout um as a kind of general experience, so you know, not necessarily neurodivergent people, but you know, I hear I hear so many people talking about burnout. And I also hear, you know, maybe a more neurodivergent specific kind of burnout and um and how so many people are not believed or it's minimised. It's kind because it's this kind of general, oh I feel really burnt out, that maybe some people don't quite recognise how disabling burnout can be. Tell can you tell us a little bit about what happened to you? What what did it look like?

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Yeah, I mean, I didn't recognise it for burnout at the time. It's only kind of when I got much better looking back that I can see it was burnout. Um I was convinced that there was something seriously wrong with me. Like physically, I I was um I had real bad palpitations, I was out of cardiac ward for a week. Um, I was sort of treated as for a suspected TIA, it's like mini stroke, because I lost kind of youth down my right side for a while, all these really scary, very real physical symptoms. And then over the space of sort of a year, two years of seeing different consultants, not having very joined up care, it was very, oh, you've got this symptom, so you'll be seen by a cardiologist, you've got this symptom, so you'll be seen by an endocrinologist. So all these different consultants, but nobody sort of sat down to put the pieces together. Um, and eventually I got a diagnosis of me, chronic chronic fatigue syndrome, and which in itself is almost a sort of diagnosis of exclusion, like everything else is excluded first. And for me that felt really it just it didn't satisfy me. It was like, so now what? What what do we do now? And there was no treatment plan. Um and so I basically had to sort of work my way up again from I'd say my husband cared for me for about three months, I couldn't get out of bed. Um, I was using a stick to walk, and it was just devastating, and I didn't know if I was going to get better.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Um but eventually by changing my life and my lifestyle and obviously not being working, not working full-time, wasn't in fight or flight the whole time. The children kind of had come out of their autistic burnout quite a bit. Um, I just started to look after myself and gradually got better to a point where I now kind of live within my means. So I know if I'm getting close to kind of getting to that point again, I'll take a step back. So it is very much a balancing act now. Um, but yeah, it was it was it was devastating.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

Absolutely. Um I used to work in medically unexplained symptoms and I also used to work in chronic pain and chronic fatigue. And at that time I I I didn't understand neurodivergence like I do now. Then it was much more um the kind of stereotype of what I was educated um on. And uh I look back now and I think that was they were all burnt out. They were neurodivergent. Well, the majority making sweeping statements here, but when I look back in hindsight, if I think about their histories and I think about their experiences, and just like you say, they would go see, like, you know, they there there were certain departments that would see them and rule out things like um epilepsy or rule out, like you say, anything heart-related, and eventually they get sent to this like basement service, which is where I was, the psychologist, it's all in your head, was kind of the message to them. But there wasn't anybody to really help them understand that this was all real in their body, it might not be detectable on an MRI or something like that in the ways that they were looking for it, but absolutely it was there and was severely impacting people's lives. So, yeah, I like I I have seen so much of that. You were saying about um building yourself back up, it would be so interesting for everyone to hear about how do you do that? Like, where did you start?

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Um, really tiny, tiny steps. So it was, I think a big part of it was the acceptance that actually this is where I am now, and not having that boom and bust. So I would there was a time to begin with where I would get some energy, and so be like, Oh, I've got some energy, let me do what I can while I've got this energy, and then I'd be in bed for two days. So it was accepting that actually the little things made a difference. So, you know, maybe just sitting on a chair and chopping some carrots for dinner when my husband cooked, or um, and then being aware of the sim like what I felt in my body. So, you know, I think I'd become so disassociated with how my body felt, I didn't trust it anymore. So actually going, okay, so this is what it feels like now, and I'm feeling tired, or my heart is racing, and I'm gonna stop and listen to that, and just really being more introvert, more self-aware of myself rather than the external kind of physical symptoms, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

I think you you know what you say is so relevant to so many people that we become very disembodied and dissociated and we aren't able to hear our bodies and you know, we're acting so externally and and productively and striving and often doing what we have to do. We don't get a chance to listen to our bodies, it's not always a conscious choice at all. Um, and then this big crash happens, doesn't it? And um we have to start to learn to to reacquaint ourselves with what our body is trying to tell us. I was just also thinking when I was hearing you talk about you know, it's such a dramatic shift to be a speech and language therapist in the NHS, um, you know, raising your children to then be in bed and then to sort of maybe manage to do something like cutting the carrots, but but then find the next day you're back in bed. It's not a linear progression towards like reclaiming your body in the way that it was before. I wonder what that was like psychologically for you. Um I know a lot lots of people have kind of shared to me that they felt a lot of shame around and and self-blame around exactly a huge amount of shame.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

I felt um shame that I'd uh not just left my career, but it was and wasn't my choice. I was taken out of it. Um shame and and and just I didn't want people to know that I that I wasn't a speech therapist anymore because I'd spent so long getting to that point. Um I felt really isolated because as lovely as my colleagues were and came to see me, but that obviously went away eventually. Um and people would come round and chat to me or friends and I'd just be exhausted after half an hour or I'd end up like having to cancel people coming and so it just felt it just felt so alien. I felt like at one point I didn't know what my purpose was in life, which when I think of that now sounds terrible because I was a mum and a a wife and a daughter and a sister, but I remember at my lowest point, um, I can remember it now thinking back to getting up in the middle of the night and just thinking, I I don't know why I'm here, I don't know what my point is being you know on this earth. Um and I think that was my real lowest low. Um, and that's where kind of Instagram came in because it did give me a purpose in a strange way.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

I'd love to hear more about that.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Um it was really unexpected. Um, my daughter had said to me, Well, once my kind of energy levels had come back a little bit and I was able to be upright more and not in bed so much. I I've always written, I love to write just for myself, you know, in my journal. I'm quite a creative person. And my daughter said, Why don't you start an Instagram account? And I was well, what's Instagram? I I was a Facebook girl, you know, of that generation. Um and she says, Well, we'll just start one and you can just post things. And so I started sort of tentatively putting these little posts about what I was doing, you know, talking about kind of a bit more about ME and being a little bit more vocal. And then um, very this is completely out of the of the story. It was someone who'd asked me if I would illustrate their children's book, um, because that's another thing I I love to draw. So I was like, I wasn't sure if I had the energy to do it, but I thought I'll do it. And I did it, and it was a book about um children starting school. So I then started talking about that on Instagram. That's where school the mum comes from, the name. Yeah. But what happened was the more I talked about it, the more parents of autistic children were asking me questions in my DMs because they were so worried about their autistic kids starting school, and then COVID hit, and obviously we were all school and and you know, all life was can be taken from us, and parents were really kind of not knowing what to do, how to support their children. And I started talking more and more about autism then, got the confidence to talk about it because I felt like almost like I didn't have a right to talk about things like that. Things that I did in my career as a speech therapist, it was like, well, that's gone now, so who are you to talk about that? And I was quite embarrassed, and um, but then I got the confidence to talk more about it on on my page, and it just it just blew up and it just became huge over a really short period of time. And suddenly I realized I was I was building a business.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Yeah. So from like a a dabble, like a a hobby, to really, you know, being able to for people to relate to what you were writing about and for there to be a real need for what you were growing and developing. Yeah, that that's incredible. So you weren't planning this. Not at all. I wasn't planning it at all. Some of the best things are created that way, aren't they? Um, so okay, so you're you're sort of um in recovery from burnout and um and you're you're starting on Instagram from scratch because you don't don't even know what it is. Um and then you start to see lots of people are contacting you and what what kind of what were they contacting you about? You were saying about that they were worried about their children starting school or being in school, and they didn't really have anywhere else to go.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

No, they didn't. Um there just didn't seem to be that support there. And because of COVID, a lot of the parents had children that they suspected were autistic but hadn't had a diagnosis. Um and I think in that respect, I was one of the few places that they could go to who was prepared to talk about autism without that diagnosis and to say, you know, okay, I believe you. If you say you think your child's autistic, of course, I'm not gonna doubt that. And and they were very sort of nervous about their children starting school and that what support would be there for them, what they could do. And then it kind of got more general, and the questions were around kind of, you know, how do I support them at home? We're seeing these big meltdowns, or and the more I would talk about things that were every day for for me and about things like diet and restrictive diet and using screens and all those things that are really generally quite sort of frowned upon. Um, more parents were in my DM sort of saying, like, thank you for mentioning that because that that makes me feel not quite so bad. I feel more seen, I feel like a better parent. Um, and it became quite overwhelming. I would was quite emotional with some of the messages I was getting, and um and I really did have a purpose then. It felt like I'd found what I was meant to do then.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

That's amazing, and you know, I'm just thinking about and you know, I hear a lot of similar stories from parents too in the work that I do. Um just the shame around parenting and you're doing what you can to regulate your child, to get through the day, to keep everybody safe and connected and all well-intentioned, and also from being the expert parent that you are on your own child. Yet the messages out there are so invalidating and critical and judgmental. And I'm just wondering if you know what people were seeing in your work and still see in your work, you know, is that validation and that safe place to have a conversation authentically about what they're doing, and and it's wonderful, isn't it, when somebody can mirror back to you that's okay, you're you're really doing your best, or I get why you're doing that rather than why are you doing that, you shouldn't be doing that, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Yeah, and I think that's what I had needed as a parent when when I was parenting. So it felt it just felt that to be able to give that to parents and to say, you know, exactly what you said, it's that validation that actually it's okay to do that. Um, and also this is why it works. I think that was the other thing. I think as parents, um, we instinctively often know what works for our children, what does help regulate them, but it goes against everything that we're told by society, by you know, by family even. Um, and to actually say, well, this is why it works, I think for a lot of parents was the real kind of light bulb moment was okay, I I've got a reason, I understand now that I'm I'm parenting um a child that has a different brain at the end of the day. Um, rather than just I'm doing this and it's permissive, or I'm a lazy parent, which is what I often thought when my children were younger, it works, but I'm lazy giving them a screen, I'm lazy letting meat what you know chicken nuggets every day um I should be forcing this more and should be trying to you know be do the things that uh uh society and parenting courses and all of that tells us that we should be doing yeah um so I think I think that's a really huge part um of what what helped parents and what what helps them now.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

Yeah. Tell us a little bit more about why those things work. The you know it sounds very child led and very sensory led and you know understanding that neurobiology of a child and that being the guide?

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Yeah I think the I think it's really really tough because especially in education as well when when we're seeing kind of what's class is behaviour and we're seeing it as almost like a choice from children when actually it's communication, it's telling us where they are in their nervous system and I think that was the the thing that really changed for me was understanding that our autistic kids' nervous systems are so sensitive and so hypersensitive to the world around them and that predictability is so is so calming and so regulating. And actually things like screens where it is predictable and they have some control over what's happening on their screen when everything else in their life is so unpredictable is the reason it's so regulating and needing to have the same foods every time is for safety you know that those that beige food is regulatory because it's the same it's not going to change it tells their nervous system you're safe it's okay. I'm not a neuroscientist so I don't you know pretend to to know all of the science behind this but from experience and from what I have studied um it it it works and I think because it's so against the grain because it goes completely against parenting styles that we're we're taught about in society.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

Sometimes how I describe that to parents that I work with that's our halfway um just for those who are listening it's the usual piece of white paper under the door saying we're halfway through. And um yeah so a lot of the parents that I work with they're asking me questions like is this okay they want me to validate is it okay for the repeat meals that are beige and you know there's not any vegetables on the plate or whatever or is it okay that they are in their room straight after school or you know on on a game and they're not outdoors running around and doing whatever and they want that validation and I often say you know we we talk about how that is okay but we also talk about how much is internalized within us about this kind of you know ableist idea of what everyone should be doing. Yeah and I it's just to me it's such a nonsense because we're all so different you know we don't we're not expected to wear exactly the same outfits as as a human race every single day and eat exactly the same meal there is variety in this world. So why with kids and parenting do we not invite more curiosity more variety more flexibility? Like what is this sort of you know um really inflexible and unkind you know perspective that people take that just gets internalized and makes us you know really self-critical of of what we're doing and really doubt you know our parenting like when you were talking about your body and becoming disembodied it it's the same process isn't it where we we we can't listen to our instincts we can't listen to our body or our children and our children can't listen if we were to follow what everyone else not everybody else but you know those dominant narratives.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Exactly yeah I think that's exactly it it's that instinct is there and then we lose it as parents because it is that narrative that actually children should that's the old children should be seen and not heard it's that compliance it's so and again like you were saying you know our children almost lose the instinct to listen to their bodies as well. And I think that's that's a big piece for me is actually that our neurodivergent children the more that we kind of push that narrative of you know compliance and and those that type of parenting where over time I've seen especially with with my children when I used to parent like that before I knew better kind of promoting masking in a way because they don't listen to to their internal um body you know that feeling inside them they're being told that actually to fit in here you you need to do this X, Y, and Z and and what you're feeling is wrong. And over time that can have such a negative impact particularly with my daughter who um wasn't diagnosed till she adulthood only a year and a half ago we didn't know she was autistic again which is huge guilt for me as a parent to autistic boys and working you know in autism we just didn't see it and so she was always told well you're the good girl you know you're being such a good girl while I look after your brothers so she stopped listening to how she felt in her body and she describes almost like her meltdowns were internal. They weren't just shut down she was kind of screaming inside she was having that meltdown and I think about all the children that maybe are doing that because that they're not encouraged to to react to to their nervous system and how they're feeling it's so true what you're saying.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

Like some communication is external behavioural and we might be able to see that. We might not see it clearly we might see it and misjudge it or misunderstand it. But there are those internalizers where things are held in and the you know it's it's more quiet signs that could easily get missed or get rewarded like perfectionist the good girl or the good boy um you know is is compliant that that doesn't equal safe that doesn't equal okay actually there might be a lot going on underneath the surface and they may be master maskers. Yeah exactly you know very skilled at reading the room and and and you know performing what they they feel they need to do in order to be safe because we forget fight flight is part of the survival response but so is appeasing and fawning and that can look like the perfect child.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Absolutely I think that's why in schools often teachers are are missing some of those children that are quietly struggling because regulated doesn't necessarily have to mean calm you know you can have a really calm child in a class or on the outside quiet child in a classroom just like I say my daughter who inside is is just trying to survive because they're really really struggling. And equally you can have a child that's very active and you know very loud that's regulated. So I think that's a piece of work that I think in schools it needs to be more work on actually recognising that um you know quiet doesn't always mean regulated and doesn't mean okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

Yeah and it it sounds simple but I think it blows people's mind. That could be the case. And just while we're there kind of thinking about schools and teachers like I think teachers need permission to be able to teach and to respond to children differently because they've got a really tough job and they're not always gonna be able to you know respond to every single child in the way that every single child needs. And it is confusing and um I think you know they deserve the education and the support don't they so that because you know kids are there for such a huge part of their life that it's so important that that's just really missing isn't it it's hugely missing.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

I can't get my head round how much it's missing. So two of my children are teachers. So my daughter um works in a special school and so she teaches a class of 13 autistic children and my son is a secondary school maths teacher which is hilarious because I have dys alkalia so the fact he's a math teacher is just like crazy. But but yeah so they they see it from that point of view as well so where my daughter she often talks about actually it's healing for her to be teaching these children she describes it as almost like teaching the little girl that she was and would have liked to have been in that classroom. But even with all her skills and her intuition she still even in the specialist setting does doesn't have the ability to teach every child how they need to be taught and I I don't know what the answer is.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

It's with education I really don't know what the answer is but it's like you said the teachers deserve more training they deserve to to have that yeah they do and and and those children deserve to be believed and the parents deserve to be believed because it is such a um it's such a catastrophic situation when when everything's escalating and people aren't being believed and everybody in that situation is following the rules of what you know they're supposed to do rather than being more embodied and listening to the child and the parents and the teachers. So you've told us about um your growing Instagram and and how that was a surprise to you and it it really related to a lot of people and there you are with a business and a purpose you said as well and so um I mean that I'm so happy for you that that happened um because there's it's it you know it it is devastating when you know something like that happens and uh and like you say we don't know where where next or what next and we've got drive and we we all want a purpose we all deserve a purpose. You've clearly taken it to the next level you're you're now an author and um can you tell us a bit about your book?

SPEAKER_00 32:30

Yeah it's um it's called Parenting Your Autistic Child Permission to do it differently I love that title so it does what it says on the tin really it's that validation um it's 30 years of parenting and working with autistic kids and um I call it almost like a permission slip for parents to to pick it up and feel like they're having a conversation with another parent so that um you know a cup of tea whenever they can dip in and out of it whether it's mid-meltdown or you know at the end of the day and um it's not linear it's something they can dip into and find what they need whether it's meltdowns whether it's you know whether it's meal times whatever there's a chapter there for them but it's also about the whole permission to parent differently ethos which runs through my whole business really it's just that validation it's saying this is why this works this is why it works again touching on the nervous system and that need for predictability um but it's also a toolkit so as they go through the book at the end of each chapter there are activities so it's quite interactive and there's the options to kind of create almost like your own manifesto as you go through it. So we have a family manifesto that that is on our wall at home. So at the end of each chapter I invite parents to to come up with their manifesto statement that feels right for them not what everybody else thinks they should be doing or saying what feels right for them. So by the end of it they've got this manifesto that they can look back on on those difficult days where they just need that bit of remind reminding so it's a hug it's a hug in a book yeah I was gonna say like imagine people's shoulders dropping just like the title then getting actually you know into the book and having something mirrored and reflected back or you know there isn't anything there it's an invitation for them to define it for themselves.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

And you know to me that is such a lovely way to help people raise their own voice. And and also like I said often as a professional I find people come to me asking for validation or advice and I quite often like to kind of say to them you have the answer it's it's what you know the barriers in front are to do with society or you know I don't know past experience or you know there's so many things that are kind of blocking your inner voice and that's where we need to look that's where we need to start so it really sounds like your book just really you know embodies all of that for parents.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

I really hope it does and there are personal stories in there from from my parenting mistakes I made as well so it's very human um and there are kind of examples of the amazing parents that I work with as well and and their stories so it's um it's quite a hybrid book in a way it's sort of personal professional in a little bit of everything so hopefully it should it should reach as many people as possible hopefully it sounds brilliant it sounds brilliant so if we kind of go for a full circle and go back to I mean we didn't get to hear about your whole childhood maybe you'll have to come back and do that part of your life but we did start up at 18 when you were was it 18 born on my 18th birthday so we share a birthday.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Oh wow um so 18 and you know you you very much felt like you had to prove yourself in the world and to other people how does it feel um to have had you know this kind of roller coaster experience and to to be here now having established your own business and to be an author and to be helping so many people through your own experience which some people might have said was a mistake was a failing but actually this is where you are because of all of that how does it feel right now for you?

SPEAKER_00 36:43

It feels amazing right now it feels really exactly where I'm meant to be and it feels like the whole journey um was meant to to go it that way I think I don't believe I would be where I am now if I hadn't reached catastrophic burnout I really don't I think in a way it gave me permission to start again so I I feel like I've had two lives is sort of from being a teenager and that kind of trying to prove to everybody and then losing it through through illness now it feels like I've built that back up again.

SPEAKER_02 37:19

Well not not even built it up again but created something new from that that's authentic and gentle and I feel like it's given me permission to be completely honest with people and I think that's and also I'm I'm kind of in midlife now so I've gone through menopause so there's it it feels like a a rebirth so yeah that's how I'd kind of describe it yeah I think it's really important for people to hear that because some people will be in the void yeah they will be in in places of burnout they will be just you know lost not knowing how to help their child how to navigate the school system the local authorities you know we see so many people who are in such distress and I would say are in trauma like the experiences are traumatic for a lot of people and I know some people say that's not trauma and I think where they're coming from is suggesting that no one's life is at risk in that sense but they don't think about the relational trauma they don't think about you know the fear of your child's future or the fear of your own future and there's so much such a lack of safety and and so little certainty which are you know the things that our neurodivergent nervous systems really you know crave and need for regulation so and I know so many people out there will you know be uplifted I imagine by hearing that it's not easy and we're not saying it is but you know you can find you can design your life you can and I and it's interesting when you're talking about trauma I really do believe that that or parents of autistic children go through trauma every single day and leaving your children in an environment where you know their nervous system is going to be triggered and as a parent is traumatic yeah and I every morning I would go through that with my children and I talk to parents who do it now with their children and having to walk away and I just think as a parent is really traumatic and that builds every single day.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

Yeah and it contributes to to burnout massively and you're right I think people don't see those and I don't even want to call them mini traumas because they don't feel mini they feel huge inside um but yeah I think I think as a parent to any neurodivergent child you're kind of handling that all day every day and not knowing what the future is and I think it's it's hugely traumatic and massively contributes to to burnout and physical ill health.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

Absolutely and I think not just school but parties or um like mental health or physical health services the dentist the hairdressers you know they can feel very traumatic and I and I know there's a lot of people out there who don't understand what do you mean a hairdresser's or school is traumatic. Well actually for some people it really is and here let us explain to you why um and I'm not saying you know those people are at fault for not understanding they haven't been given the education but that's why I think accounts like yours your book were you know real grassroots it's not just people who are doing research it's you know people who have lived experience people who have clinical experience working with people um people who've been through burnout like yourself can you know really make a difference to this narrative um and open people's eyes to you know the reality of what people are going through because it we get missed it gets missed doesn't it it does and I think we need to be listening to parents because parents have got such a rich amount of information and and experience to share and actually well we're a kind of a small company now we've we've turned turned into a limited um company and we've got sort of three three or four people that that help out and they're all parents of autistic children who um or nor divergent themselves who have come through that and now able to really contribute.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

And I just think that I just it amazes me what they're able to do and where they've come from and how they've struggled but their experience is so so important because the parents that we work with they relate to like amazing and that's what parents want to hear they want to hear stories or people who've been there before um so I think it's maybe overlooked a little bit that that lived experience can can make such a difference in yeah all areas of life.

SPEAKER_02 41:57

Yeah absolutely I mean I really value my lived experience over my my my clinical psychologist qualification I look back and think there's a lot that I I don't listen to about any of that education that and it's people who I work with who've taught me as well you know listening to their voices they've really educated me and um and I'm so grateful for those people who have found a way to have their voice because it's not always easy is it to say these things it's not always easy to stand against you know the dominant narrative it's not easy to stand up and advocate because people will knock you down people will criticise and say that's a load of rubbish that's not safe what you're saying and doing and suggesting and that's quite that's dysregulating as well isn't it it is and I've had that myself um I still get it quite a lot now where people will message me um and say actually what you're suggesting is really unsafe and and it's damaging to to children that you know when I talk about unlimited screen time parental control but unlimited screen time I'm a big advocate of that and people really don't like that at all.

SPEAKER_00 43:11

And then there are times sometimes where I where I do worry about you know past colleagues hearing what I'm saying and so there's still that little voice in me sometimes it's like that's not very professional Lisa. So yeah it it can be tricky but really important.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

Yeah I completely relate to that by the way and I no one has ever said this to me. I probably shouldn't say this on air but I'm going to I always thought that some of my colleagues thought I was reckless and irresponsible because I want would suggest doing things differently and the look and the energy that I felt from them was really damning as in like I cannot believe you're considering or suggesting that Emma. You know and actually I never did anything reckless or irresponsible by the way everybody but you you That's the sense of threat that I think people and that can feel very traumatic that you're living with all the time. What if I speak up? What if I say my truth? What if I challenge the system? Actually, the pushback is so it it's it's so heavy sometimes. And and you and you do, you think, gosh, you know, are people gonna question my career? Are they gonna question my you know, you know, my professionalism, my you know, who I am to be in the space, to have to have this voice. Yeah, it's not that easy to have this voice.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

It's not, it's not, and I think also the book particularly I found as much as I absolutely loved writing it, I had to really remind myself that it was okay to say this stuff because I think it's it's going out there, people are gonna read it, ex-colleagues or whoever, people in the profession, and there are things in there that they will disagree with. Um, but it was like, no, I I need to do this because it's not for those people, it's for parents, um, and just to be a little bit braver. And I think we need more people like yourself to be braver and and say, actually, you know, there is there are different ways that we can look at things.

SPEAKER_02 45:09

And I think that's what's so important about the community as well, that we can support each other um in, you know, and and kind of you know build this up collectively so no one person is sort of like the scapegoat there on the podium and everything. We all have to support each other and and um and we'll all have kind of different viewpoints within that as well. There's no one truth about things, is there? But that's what we're trying to say, the personal truth. So Lisa, um I emailed you just before you you came and I asked if you could do something new that I'm trying, which is to bring in an object, a kind of regulating holding object, and talk about that with our listeners. And have you brought something in for us? Lisa's got a beautiful bag by the way. We'll have to get a photograph of this. I love the colour.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

I couldn't bring my dog. So what I have a bucket of vitamin in my bag, so I've got um a little model of my dog that um I had made a few years ago, and it looks just like him actually. So this is Ted. Um he's got a bit hairy because he's been stuck in my handbag. Um, so he yeah, so Ted is my regulating tool, and also when I was really ill and poorly, he was so therapeutic, he didn't leave my side. Yeah, um, and and he's just always there for me now. And I'm just I think animals is such a an amazing um tool for not just adults but actually children that that are struggling. My daughter, um, when she was in autistic burnout, um, the cat was such an important part of her life and like really important. Yeah. It was sometimes the only person in the virtual comments um who she could be with and and felt safe with. Um so yeah, that's my that's gorgeous.

SPEAKER_02 47:01

And did you make that to come on here? You already had it.

SPEAKER_00 47:04

Oh no, I've already had it, yeah. I've had it a few years ago.

SPEAKER_02 47:06

Yeah, certainly, and I yeah, I I really I really hear you about that because like sometimes it doesn't seem like enough, right? A child is lying next to their cat or their dog, or you know, that seems to be all they're doing and they're trying to recover from burnout, and actually that's huge. There's co-regulation there, there's a relationship, there's something safe and reliable, and you know, I think yeah, they're our companions and they really support us, don't they?

SPEAKER_00 47:33

They do, they do, and and lots of parents who I work with have pets that they're exactly like you just said, they're there for co-regulation. I a family I worked with had a rabbit, and you know, the daughter would just always have the rabbit with her, and it was so important. So, so yeah, really important.

SPEAKER_02 47:50

Yeah, when when some parents are looking for like solutions because they're feeling so desperate, I think they're surprised because sometimes I'm like, have you considered getting a cat? Or you know, it's sometimes it's the really simple things like can you change the lighting in the room? Like really coming back to basics, coming back to our bodies, and and and and you know, being grounded with an animal is such a beautiful experience if you like animals. Yeah, exactly. Um that those are really important things to remember. It isn't some kind of fancy solution.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

It's and it's it's scientific, isn't it? Our heart rate reduces when we're when we're striking an animal.

SPEAKER_02 48:24

So I've got two more questions for you. Um okay, so yeah, what I wanted to ask you was if someone was listening today as a parent who feels overwhelmed, guilty, or unsure of themselves, what would you want them to know?

SPEAKER_00 48:42

Uh first of all, I believe you because I think that's such a powerful statement that someone said to me when I was parenting. So I believe you a validation. Um, and trust your gut, listen to your instincts, you you know the answers. Yeah, um, it's exactly like you were saying before, it's just breaking down those barriers and going, yeah, trust in yourself that you you know what's right for your child.

SPEAKER_02 49:05

Yeah, absolutely, 100% with that. And then I'm I'm asking every guest a question, um, which I I didn't do on the last series, so I'm just playing with ideas. Um, so when you hear the words this voice is mine, what do they mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 49:22

Um bravery, yeah. Um that I think when I think about my voice, I'm not necessarily being big-headed and saying, Oh, I'm brave, but it's about actually being authentic and being able to share my voice. Yeah, um, you have to be brave to do that sometimes, and exactly everything we've just talked about, yeah. Um, and freedom. So it feels really freeing to be here here, not here, but here as well, yeah. Um, and and just sharing my truth so that other parents can can benefit from that. So, yeah, bravery and freedom. Love that.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

Thank you so much for coming here. Thank you, it's gone so quick. Really, really loved our conversations. Thank you, me too.