Being Different Together

#23 - Intentionality, Part 8: You’re Already Ready

• Nyssa Hanger • Episode 23

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0:00 | 46:53

In this episode of Being Different Together, Kelly and Nyssa continue their intentionality mini-series by unpacking two classic Murray Landsman sayings: "You're already ready" and "Trying is not doing it." 

They explore how these deceptively simple phrases cut through resistance, perfectionism, and the “I don’t feel like it” mindset, especially around creative work, meditation, relationships, and everyday tasks like decluttering and home projects. Through stories about writing, inner critics, therapy, and the “great stuff shuffle,” they show how willingness, imperfect action, and giving yourself permission to be a beginner can transform how you show up for the things that matter. 

If you’ve ever felt stuck waiting to feel ready, told yourself you’re “trying” but not actually moving forward, or struggled with following your bliss without becoming self‑indulgent, this conversation will help you take compassionate, grounded action right where you are.

Main Topics Covered:

  • How the sayings “You’re already ready” and “Trying is not doing it” can bust through resistance and procrastination
  • The sneaky ways “I don’t feel like it” and “I’m not ready yet” block our goals (and what we’re really afraid of)
  • Why following your bliss 24/7 can turn into hedonism—and how to stay intentional without being self‑indulgent
  • The “great stuff shuffle” and what decluttering during a home renovation reveals about readiness and attachment
  • How inner critics overprotect us like an overactive immune system—and how to lovingly turn down their volume
  • Why it’s often easier to talk than to write about big ideas, and how writers can tolerate imperfect first drafts
  • The difference between wanting to do something and being willing to do it (especially for unglamorous tasks)
  • What therapy clients, creative practices, and meditation have in common when it comes to actually doing the work
  • How giving yourself permission to be a beginner changes your relationship with learning, risk, and “getting it right”

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Stay in Touch:

Nyssa Hanger: www.nyssahanger.com | IG: @nyssahanger

Kelly Brady: www.kellybrady.me | IG: @drkellybrady

SPEAKER_04

Welcome to Being Different Together, the podcast for people who want to make the world a better place, but no, they can't do it alone.

SPEAKER_00

I'm Dr. Kelly Brady, acupuncturist, psychotherapist, and certified dialogue therapist.

SPEAKER_04

And I'm Nissa Hanger, massage therapist, aromatherapist, coach, and real dialogue specialist.

SPEAKER_00

Together we'll explore how conversations can improve relationships, make work more joyful, and spark healing for ourselves and our communities.

SPEAKER_04

And listen, we don't shy away from the hard conversations. In fact, we welcome them.

SPEAKER_00

This isn't about being right. It's about being different. Together.

SPEAKER_04

Hello, hello. Everyone. She can't look at me when we start. She just laughs. Oh my god. This is being different.

SPEAKER_00

Together.

SPEAKER_04

And um.

SPEAKER_00

You're already cracking me up this morning. I'm like. It's my job. I know.

SPEAKER_04

It is my job.

SPEAKER_00

I'll give you an A.

SPEAKER_04

Yay! Hey, student.

SPEAKER_00

You love an A. Yeah. What are we talking about? What are we talking about today?

SPEAKER_04

So we are on episode number, I believe it's eight in our intentionality series. Uh it's gonna go on for a little bit longer. So I hope y'all are on the ride with us.

SPEAKER_00

We're on a streak.

SPEAKER_04

We are. You love a streak. I do love a streak. And so if you have not listened to the first episode at least, I don't think you need to go in order after that, but I think listening to the first episode in the intentionality series, which I think is episode 16, it'll be linked in the show notes. Go back and listen to that first, because it'll give you context of what we're doing here. Yeah. And the other ones, listen to as you would like.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Have you ever seen the movie Bulldorum?

SPEAKER_04

Well, I've I'm married to you, so yes, I have seen the movie Bull Durham.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. I mean, I just think it's an an underrated underrated classic.

SPEAKER_04

What makes you think of that?

SPEAKER_00

The thing about being on a streak. You know, so Bulldorum is about baseball, right? Yes. And Tim Robbins plays this wild pitcher young guy who's in the minors, and Kevin Costner is the seasoned catcher who comes in to teach him how it is that he's gonna get to the majors and Susan Sarandon is one or both of their girlfriends. Susan Sarandon is the She's like the baseball groupie. She yes, but she also knows a lot about baseball. Oh, and she knows a lot about life.

SPEAKER_04

I mean similar to Kevin Costner's character.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, she really is. Similar to Kevin Costner's character. So you can kind of see that eventually they're gonna end up together. I mean, it's not, you know. Yeah. Anywho. Also, isn't that a great saying? Who came up with that?

SPEAKER_04

Anywho.

SPEAKER_00

Anywho. Um so there's this part where the catcher crash. No, not crash, Nuke. The catcher, the the the pitcher, his nickname is Nuke, it's Tim Robbins' character. Is on a streak, he's on a winning streak.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And he thinks he's on a winning streak because he's doing all these various things, and the main thing that he's doing is he's not having sex with Susan Randon's character.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, so he can't.

SPEAKER_00

So he thinks that because he's not having sex, he's doing well at pitching. Well sure. And then a lot about baseball. And then he has this conversation with Kevin Costner, and Kevin Coshner's like, you can't give in now. Every player knows you have to respect a streak. If you think that you're winning because you're getting laid, or you're not getting laid, or you're wearing women's underwear, or you know, like all these various things you're doing, then you are, and you should know that.

SPEAKER_04

It's a whole really psychology of a streak.

SPEAKER_00

But it's also intentionality. It's it's it's like I was thinking about it when I was, I don't know, I was just in that reverie. And um it it's kind of like if you if you it doesn't it does it really matter what's happening, or is it what you think about what's happening?

SPEAKER_04

I think it depends. Matter of fact, matter to matter to who is what I would say. Matter to who.

SPEAKER_00

I do too. All right, so anyway.

SPEAKER_04

A player on a streak needs to respect the streak.

SPEAKER_00

So we're on an intention we're on an intentionality streak.

SPEAKER_04

I mean, let's just try to do every saying on our part of me where I'll get maybe two-thirds of the way through something.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And I I start to just get sick of it.

SPEAKER_04

Well, we're not quite two-thirds yet, but we are quickly approaching. So I'm gonna have to work on mine. I'm gonna enter that. I'm gonna have to work on mine. Because we'll as far as I'm concerned, we're gonna go through the whole thing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we're gonna go through the whole thing. But this is the kind of thing that can happen to me like if even if I'm reading a book.

SPEAKER_04

Oh yeah, no, totally. I have to I if I get I buy a back I just don't want the book to end sometimes. Is that what it is? I just don't want it to end. And there's also like a I like the rising action and the and the the climax of the story, and then when it starts to like wrap up, yeah, it just it's a little sometimes sometimes it's a little more boring. And I'm like, alright, what's my next book? Uh that's that's what ends up happening to me, especially with audiobooks. Oh my god. I don't like listen to the last ten minutes of an audiobook a lot of times. So I just move on to the next one.

SPEAKER_00

But before we This book was brought to you by Audible.

SPEAKER_04

Before we That guy's voice, I hear that guy's voice in my dreams. Are um our sayings of the week. Um, speaking of a streak.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, they're really good this week, too. The sayings are really good.

SPEAKER_04

Well, I just want to first acknowledge that um one of my personal goals, which I think is a shared goal of ours for this year, is to publish 50 podcast episodes, which is continuing to publish every week, no matter what. And we have definitely had weeks where we were leaning into the no matter what. Um and we are getting close to halfway to 50. I think we're on episode 22, I think. Nice. And so that feels really good. But I also want to share before we get started, we have a new review. So, as you probably know from listening to us, um, reviews really, really, really help us get more listeners and reach more people. And so when we get a new review, I want to highlight what y'all are saying. And so this review comes from Suki So's, and Suki says, I only listen to about four podcasts consistently. And this is the first one I make sure to listen to every single week. Nissa and Kelly have such a refreshing way of showing up with honesty, humor, wisdom, and authenticity that makes every episode feel meaningful and relatable. I've genuinely grown from listening to them. Their conversations are thoughtful, balanced, entertaining, and full of insights that make you reflect on your own life in the best way. I love how naturally they share different perspectives while still creating conversations that feel encouraging and educational instead of overwhelming. I think that that has been our goal. What really says the most is that I constantly find myself sharing this podcast with other people, along with at least one new teaching idea or perspective I've learned from an episode. That alone tells me how impactful their content truly is. This podcast has become one of those rare weekly listens that leaves me feeling inspired, uplifted, and thinking long after the episode is over.

SPEAKER_01

Woo! Dang. I know that feels so good. I know.

SPEAKER_04

So it really really helps, and thanks for sharing, and all of you that listen, um, thank you for listening because it definitely keeps me going.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Definitely. So, what are our sayings for this week?

SPEAKER_00

What's the first one? Uh you're already ready.

SPEAKER_03

You're already ready. You're all ready.

SPEAKER_00

You're already ready.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You're already ready. So I just want to I just want to go back to sort of what I would think of as sort of like um classic Murray Lansman. Okay. Because a lot of these slogans are really one-liners that are resistance busting.

SPEAKER_04

They're resistance busting.

SPEAKER_00

And so, you know, this is this this is how I watched him employ these. Uh-huh. Right. So, you know, there was kind of like, all right, he would talk about the concept, which I want to do, but but uh it would be like in conversation. Yeah. I mean, you know, he'd be talking to somebody and and somebody would you know, he'd be talking to uh, you know, a student, and the student would, you know, he'd say, Well, you know what's going on with extra clinicles. Yeah, and and they'd say, Oh, well, you know, when I'm ready, blah, blah, blah, I'm gonna, and he would just look at them and look peer over his glasses with this. Look them in the eye. Look him in the eye, just a little mischievously, and he would say, you know, you're all you're already ready.

SPEAKER_05

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00

Uh-huh. And he had a way of putting it at the exactly the right time.

SPEAKER_04

I want to be like, listeners, if you have had a moment in your life where you have needed somebody to say to you, you're already ready. Just, you know, give me a little uh just go back to this head nod.

SPEAKER_00

Just go back to this podcast anytime and go to minute. What's the minute?

SPEAKER_04

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_00

You're gonna figure it out. Listener. Yeah, no, the listener's gonna figure it out. Go ahead and look right now at how long this podcast is, and then I'm gonna say to you this. You're already ready. You're already ready. You're already ready.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. And isn't that the truth a lot of times?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I find that once I've thought about something, uh-huh. I'm ready. Right.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Not thought about it for 10 years. Yeah. Look, this is But I think that this is where people get stuck a lot. And I know we've talked about this before, but I I see it all over. I see it in myself, I see it in my clients. This um resistance to what is the resistance to, do you think, when people are feeling like they're not ready?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I you know, I think that that's incredibly varied.

SPEAKER_04

I mean, resistance to the unknown. You know, when we're trying something new, especially if we're not sure if we're ready yet, it's probably something where we're we're still gaining the skills. Right? And so there is a thing of not feeling ready and that feeling um valid. But I think that that it's it's kinda like um it's kind of like with the immune system. You know, like sometimes I feel like, did you have to swell up that much? Or are you just like giving everything that you can? I I feel like like the immune system is such a strong system for at least healthy people, yeah, that it'll just it'll give you more than you need because it wants you to have enough. And so Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I was definitely in touch with that last night when my left nostril wouldn't open.

SPEAKER_04

Exactly. Good go. It's probably because I mean like a small piece of dust. Like do you need to bring all the reserves? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

For that, and the cats probably. Yeah. And dust. Yeah. And oak. Yeah. All of the things. You know, we live under a huge oak tree. Yeah. We have two cats inside. And a dog and a dog in the bed. And so I'm just allergic enough that I really don't have to take an antihistamine, except at certain times of the year I will break down. You know, when the pollen is really severe in Tampa. When everything is covered by orange and yellow pollen. Yeah. Pollen season. I'll break down and take some Zyrtech. I don't like to take it. Oh, I guess I just said a brand name. I take Zyrtech. Maybe we'll hear from ZyrTech and they'll sponsor the podcast.

SPEAKER_04

Maybe. That'd be amazing.

SPEAKER_00

Here's what I like about ZyrTech.

SPEAKER_04

ZereTech. You can find me at www.nissahanger.com.

SPEAKER_00

Here's what I like about it. Uh I think it kind of worked. Almost it almost works.

SPEAKER_04

It almost works.

SPEAKER_00

It works just enough for me to keep. It works just enough for me to go back to using it when I really need it. Oh, that's a good product. Yeah, but it doesn't completely get rid of the problem. That's what it was. It is it is it's good design. It's it's good design. For them. Yeah. Oh yeah, it's good for them.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, my left nostril last night, boy. Just closed.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Why are we talking about that?

SPEAKER_04

I'm like, are you are you gonna tie it back or do I need to?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think you need to. Where where where were we where I was going to do that?

SPEAKER_04

This idea of being already ready. So like I I was just making a point that I think there are some instances where maybe like you're not ready. But I think that I'll speak for myself. I think that there are times that I am not necessarily ready for a thing. Um, but then I think there are plenty of other times that I'm telling myself I'm not ready when I am ready enough.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

You know, telling myself I'm not ready is is an excuse to not execute what needs to be executed. I'm dealing with that right now. I'm I'm I'm doing the great stuff shuffle. The what? It's a new dance move. No, I'm just kidding. It's not a new dance move, although maybe I'll turn it into one. I call it the stuff shuffle.

SPEAKER_00

So why haven't I heard this until just now?

SPEAKER_04

I thought I said something to you about the stuff shuffle because I thought it was so cute. Um I think you're so cute. Lucky me. I don't remember the stuff shuffle. Okay, so so if you've been listening to the pod, um, you're probably aware that we are having an edition built onto the house. And what's gonna happen in a later phase of this edition that I have found out this week is quickly approaching, is we are going to be um adding some things in the actual house. Like right now, everything's happening outside the house, and so rooms need to be emptied out and stuff needs to be gone through, and I don't have the luxury of just having days upon days upon days to just do it all. I have to do it in piecemeal.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_04

And so sometimes it feels like the stuff shuffle. Like I see. I'm moving the stuff from here, I know I want to keep it, but I know that where I'm putting it right now is not its permanent home because I don't know where the permanent homes are gonna be because I gotta clear more stuff out. And so it's like one of those, um, one of those games. Remember these games from when like the 90s or whatever? It'd be like tiles on a thing, and one tile was missing. So you can always move the tiles, but it's got a picture, like it makes a picture, but you have to move other tiles to make space for this one to go all the way down here or whatever. It's like that with stuff. And so I call it the great stuff shuffle. Okay, and so wait, how does this relate back to oh yeah, am I ready? Am I ready to go through my stuff you know, pictures I drew in fourth grade? Not really. But I am, yeah. And I I am doing it. Yeah. Whether I'm ready or not. It's not about being ready. So maybe that's part of the the already ready. Is it's not actually about being about being ready.

SPEAKER_01

No.

SPEAKER_04

And I think it goes to this anti-perfectionism overarching philosophy that we've been getting into.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I yes, and you know, there's this hair that I like to split too, like when I'm working with myself to and and motivation and just motivation, yeah. Like taking something from inside of me and getting it outside of me. All right. Um I think that there's kind of a self-indulgent layer that's built in to the American ethos. Okay. Which is you you should you should love doing what you're doing all the time.

SPEAKER_05

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00

And you should want to do it. You should want to do it. Uh-huh. That if you love it, you can do it. If you love it, then you should want to do it. And you know what ideologies are. And you know what makes really successful people is that they're just constantly wanting to do everything that they do, and they're they're they're whistling while they fucking work. And they're just smiling at everyone. You know?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, when do you encounter these people?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I think that it's kind of like an American idealism.

SPEAKER_04

Exactly. You don't I mean, I don't actually encounter these people. No, but I I relate to that ideal.

SPEAKER_00

Right. I think that that there's cultural pressure towards that. And I think that there are a couple of things that happened in sort of the new age and pop psychology and spirituality movement that made it worse. Oh, really? Okay. Which is okay, let's talk about follow your bliss. For example.

SPEAKER_04

I used to have a car that had a bumper sticker on it that said, Don't follow me, I'm following my bliss.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, that's fucking adorable. So I was purple. It would still make me want to ask you out. Because there is truth in follow your bliss. There there is some truth in that. But but end also.

SPEAKER_04

It doesn't say follow your bliss 24-7-365.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Like you're still gonna need to pick up the dog poop. Is that your bliss?

SPEAKER_00

Probably not.

SPEAKER_04

No.

SPEAKER_00

You know, would it have been more precise if Campbell had said something like this is Joseph Campbell we're talking about here.

SPEAKER_04

That's where the phrase originated.

SPEAKER_00

Right. He wrote Hero has a thousand faces, and he's, you know, contemporary myth. Contemporary theologian and philosopher, right?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, mythologist.

SPEAKER_00

Mythologist. You're into the ologies now, so it's good that we got the ology correct.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Shout out to the ology's podcast by Ali Ward. Oh my god. I have a lot of things. This is benching that thing right all the time.

SPEAKER_00

Let's give her a review right now. I think if you're listening, my wife fucking loves your podcast. I listen to it. Okay, so here's Suki writes us this beautifully explicated, well-thought-out, lovely review. Here's mine. My wife really loves your podcast. Yeah, I'm serious. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_04

So, yeah, so I think a lot about oldies.

SPEAKER_00

So, mythology.

SPEAKER_04

There is a mythology episode, it's really good.

SPEAKER_00

Ooh, I bet.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it's really good.

SPEAKER_00

So I can't remember the context in which Joseph Campbell is talking about following your bliss, but I think it's in an interview. And he's talking about, you know, I think the hero's journey and finding purpose and meaning in life and how to position yourself. I mean, really, it is an it is an intentionality slogan, follow your bliss.

SPEAKER_04

Yes. Indeed.

SPEAKER_00

Right? And and I'm not I'm not pooping on it.

SPEAKER_04

You can't not knock in the hustle.

SPEAKER_00

I'm not, you know, listen, I I'm I'm I'm there with it. And all and also I think kind of the problem with this whole I need to feel good about it thing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Is that then I'm following my feelings.

SPEAKER_04

And so you know that's somebody that follows the feeling good, right? You know who that is. A hedonist. An addict.

SPEAKER_01

An addict. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So it's like you can't, you can't, you can't do that all the time. No. I mean I can, but it's a different life.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think the culture really sells it.

SPEAKER_04

I think it does too.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I think it taps into the gluttonous aspect that's in our shadow, the hedonistic aspect that's in our shadow, and then it's pretty compellingly seductive to believe that the world is just there for me.

SPEAKER_05

To feel good.

SPEAKER_00

To feel good.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, so yeah, I just think it can get a bit uh self-indulgent. And that and that I do like about this thing about you're already ready, you know.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, right. Okay, I can I can see how it pushes against that.

SPEAKER_00

I think it does. And and it's also like this this difference between wanting to do something and being willing to do something. Right? So it's like, do you want to clean the toilet? No, but I'm willing to.

SPEAKER_04

Totally.

SPEAKER_00

I often don't really want to sit down to meditate.

SPEAKER_04

No.

SPEAKER_00

But I'm willing to.

SPEAKER_04

Right. Right. You know. Right.

SPEAKER_00

Because the it's like meditation is one of those things that sometimes it takes a minute to settle onto the cushion and my mind has to slow down. I have to kinda you know, and I often really don't want to. And and if I didn't do it uh because I didn't feel ready, I'm not ready. Right. I need to feel like it.

SPEAKER_05

Right.

SPEAKER_00

This is this is this thing. I don't feel like it.

SPEAKER_05

Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00

I don't feel like it. Well, w what is that? I mean, what when someone says that, like, what do you think what do you think they're really saying?

SPEAKER_04

I don't know. I've I'm kind of thinking of breaking it down linguistically. Like, I don't feel like it. Like, why is like in there? Is there some sort of comparison implicit within the statement? I don't feel like it. Like I I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I mean, I think it also is very imagery.

SPEAKER_04

I don't feel like it.

SPEAKER_00

I don't feel like it. Well, like when I personally, in our current work and life flow, yeah, am likely to say I don't feel like it. Yeah. There are two specific times. Okay. One in the morning. Two o'clock in the afternoon. One in the morning. When when not not at one in the morning. Okay. One is in the morning when we first wake up and we gotta walk the dog.

SPEAKER_04

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And sometimes I don't feel like it. Oh, I say I don't feel like it. I don't feel like it. What don't I feel like? I mean, the truth is I don't want to get out of bed. No.

SPEAKER_01

And then sometimes it's hot outside.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I mean, so I'm saying I don't feel like it, but there's there's all these things inside that. Like I don't want to deal with the heat. I haven't had enough water and coffee yet. I haven't even brushed my teeth. Like, I I'm not. So that's like I don't feel like it. I can hear I can hear myself a little whiny about that in the morning. Also, you know, Fridays, we made this decision to have like fun dinner.

SPEAKER_04

Friday fun dinner.

SPEAKER_00

It was the best one of the best things we ever came up with. Because I don't feel like cooking dinner on Friday nights. I don't feel like it. I don't feel like it. Which basically means I don't want to do it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Now, if if I say I don't want to, I think that that that takes a lot more personal responsibility.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, because it implies a choice. Yeah. Versus I don't feel like it. That that to me sounds more um there's less agency. Like I don't I just happen to not feel like it. I don't know. I don't know what to do to tell you. I just don't know why I'm feeling when I feel like it.

SPEAKER_00

And because I don't feel like it, it's not happening.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. So I guess we're talking about doing things even when you don't want to do them, and not using not feeling ready as an excuse to not do the things.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you're already ready.

SPEAKER_04

Which might, I don't know if there's anything else you want to say about that. I feel like that kind of dovetails into our next saying over here.

SPEAKER_00

Which is trying is not doing it.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, this does um harken back to a previous episode where we talked about doing it does it. Doing it does it. Now, what to you how are these phrases different to you? Doing it does it and trying is not doing it.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think they're in the same family. They're definitely, yeah, if we were to use that there I think that I think that the first time would have been like, okay, so the so the student says to him, Well, you know, when I blah blah blah, when I finally XYZ, and then Murray would have said, Well, doing it does it. And then the student would have said, you know, but I'm not ready.

SPEAKER_05

Okay, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00

And then he would have said, You're already ready.

SPEAKER_05

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00

And then the student would have said, and then the student would have said, All right, Marie, I'll try. And he would have said, trying isn't doing.

SPEAKER_04

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_00

It's like And that's literally how that's literally how it was. Yeah. I mean, I can hear it. Yeah, that's exactly how it went.

SPEAKER_04

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00

He you know, he he was just really regularly like just he would hear a person, he would hear that resistance where a person was basically making them making things harder on themselves. Making it harder on themselves. And he just well it would help and just provide that intervention that would help the person suffer a little less. Yeah. Because of course in life things are gonna we're gonna ha wail and gnash our teeth and we're gonna have moments of difficulty. And anybody who tells you that that's not the case is lying. Of course. So, you know, they're not being honest. So I I think that it's it's like he he just had this way of you know continuing to work with resistance with these sayings, like in a row. Um, you know, like in boxing we would call it a kind of comeback. We would call it a combination.

SPEAKER_04

Uh-huh, uh-huh. A one-two punch.

SPEAKER_00

Well, it was actually a one-two-three.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It was left, right, uppercut. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, totally. It was like jet jets. You know, it's like that. I mean, uh, yeah, so I think they're they're kind of like adjacent to one another. I mean, I don't know, what do you think about the difference?

SPEAKER_04

And what would happen in my mind. Um, and I can see how uh there's sort of like two different ways I can take trying is not doing it. Um there's a more um maybe immature way of taking if somebody were if I were to say, Well, I'm trying, and they would say trying is not doing it. Um it does it it it it can, depending on the tone, maybe, and the facial expressions feel a bit um I don't know if pedantic is is the word, but like kind of like a a little bit of a put down.

SPEAKER_00

Um love the word pedantic.

SPEAKER_04

And so um, but I can also hear it as trying is not doing if I say, hey, listen, I'm trying, and then somebody says, well, trying isn't doing it, then I can all I I feel like I also then have a moment to kind of come to. Right. Because if trying isn't doing it, but I am feeling like I'm trying, then I might actually just be doing it. I don't need to I don't need to put the the false um costume of trying over a thing when it's when I actually am I actually am doing it. Like, why do I have to not um sort of like celebrate that or congratulate that? Like it's I'm not saying I I'm doing it perfectly or I'm doing it even to completion, but acknowledging that my effort is the doing of it versus some sort of like eternal dress rehearsal that can come with trying or not feeling ready to just go back to that other saying. Does that make sense? Yeah, that totally makes sense. So I do hear that. I'm sort of like, well, where in my life like we could be like, oh, we're trying to record a podcast.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_04

Like we're trying, we're trying to make a podcast. No, we are doing a podcast.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Yeah, I mean, there's this moment in therapy when I'm working with somebody, and listen, I've been on both sides of the couch, right? Right. All all I was taught that all good therapists should have a therapist.

SPEAKER_04

This is this was then that makes that makes your therapist your client's grand therapist. I just learned that the other day. It's it's a thing. Who's my grand therapist?

SPEAKER_00

It's a thing. And you know, so it's like you know, in order for me to have enough clarity to be able to work with other people, I have to know what's coming up for me because therapy is this really relational experience where I have I have this deep relationship with people. It's such a gift, really, and they trust me and I'm honored by it. And um, you know, this is like the the most intimate part of a person, I think, is their mind actually. And so it's like to get to know someone's interiority and for I it's it's it's really it's it's very sacred work to me. And and part of that is like this continued this is what I was taught. Like if you're gonna do it, you gotta do it. If you're gonna if you're gonna work as a therapist, you gotta go to go to therapy. Which is very different than being a surgeon.

SPEAKER_04

Oh right. Right. You know, right.

SPEAKER_00

Or a computer programmer. I mean, it's it's it's it's different. Yeah. Anywho, I've been on it on both sides, and there there is this moment where there's insight in therapy, yeah, and then there's the taking of the insight and applying it to life, like actually making the change.

SPEAKER_05

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00

Right? So sometimes couples will come in to dialogue therapy and they will practice the skills of real dialogue in session, but then they won't practice them at home. Uh-huh. And there's this success of approximating that that they have to do to be able to gain enough confidence to start to practice it. Right. I think part of what this what this slogan also exposes is how vulnerable we feel when we're doing something where we where we're still learning. Like one of the things that Murray said to me early on was he said, just give yourself permission to be a beginner.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Like you you don't give yourself permission to just go ahead and do it and it's okay. You like you don't have to get an A. Just keep practicing, right? Just go ahead and and keep practicing. But there is that moment, I think, where um there is something that is operative inside of us. Maybe it's our interior predator, our interior holdbacker, our inner critic, whatever. You know, however you want to look at that part of yourself, um, that does hold us back.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Well, my understanding about that part is that it is well, it's rooted in in fear. And it's I, you know, I guess to borrow from like IFS parts work or whatever. I don't know if they would necessarily call the inner critic a protector part, but I do think that the inner my experience of my inner critic is it's trying to protect me. It just overcorrects.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Like your immune system, like my blocked left nostril.

SPEAKER_04

It's like a chance that anything will go wrong, we want to protect you from. And it I and I learned a lot about that from writing, like encountering Natalie Goldberg's book, um, writing down the bones and studying creative writing. And I mean, honestly, any type of writing, whether it's like creative writing, poetry, short stories, writing stuff for writing essays, writing articles, writing my email newsletter, like any basically even opening up my journal, there's still as soon as that pen or my fingers hit that that keyboard, like that inner critic's on online.

SPEAKER_01

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04

And um, and I think, yeah, between Natalie Goldberg's work and The Artist's Way, which also talks about the inner critic, because Morning Pages is a big part of that work. Um, I would always say, when I would teach teenagers poetry, which I did for a couple years, I would always say, we just want to turn down the volume. Like that it's it's always gonna be there. We're not we're we don't want to get rid of it. Sometimes it helps us make good decisions, you know? Like I'm driving in my car and the light turned red. My inner critic protector part should make sure I put my foot on the freaking brake. Um but but it's not always helpful. So we just turn down the volume on it a little bit.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, and also it's not to s it the these slogans I don't think are all are are in the spirit of not being prepared.

SPEAKER_04

Right. Okay. Right.

SPEAKER_00

So it's not like, well, I'm just gonna go ahead and take that test because I'm already ready.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I'm just gonna go walk the Appalachian Trail with clothes on my back.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm already ready.

SPEAKER_04

I'm already ready. Right, it's not about not being prepared. It's that once you are prepared to actually go do the thing.

SPEAKER_01

That's a fine balance. I think so too. I think so too.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I mean there's a there's a reason that we need things like this to keep us in check, I think.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and like I think there's this this this part of sort of like maybe how people look at their ideal self, like who their ideal self is versus you know real who they are. Yeah. And then like that's just it's okay.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah, let yourself be who you are, as you are.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. All I can do is Kelly.

SPEAKER_04

All I can do is Nissa.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I can't I can't, Nissa.

SPEAKER_04

I can't Kelly.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no. All I can do is Kelly. God help everybody else.

SPEAKER_04

The world is a better place with you uh Kellying. Oh, thanks. I do think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Thanks. Yeah. It's it's cool. I mean, to think about that thing about idealism and um I don't know. I I I like this this saying too. There's it's just a humility in it.

SPEAKER_04

Trying is not doing it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And you know, and you're and you're already ready. So right.

SPEAKER_04

They go so well together.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Like what's the what's the hold up?

SPEAKER_01

What's the hold up? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I think to go back to what you're talking about in regards to writing, I've I've encountered this space in myself where I've been doing some more writing lately. And um actually I've been writing about intentionality. And and I find it's easier for me to sort of magically weave together verbally what I think about something, or to take maybe other people's thoughts and turn them quickly into sentences that I can say out loud. But there's something for me that's different when I sit down to to write that. There's a it's like it has to come out of a different place.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, versus verbally, like us talking on this podcast. Yeah, no, totally. Yes, I have to come through your body.

SPEAKER_00

It does.

SPEAKER_04

It has it's there's yeah, even though talking is through the body, it's it's and I'm just gonna get like weird here, but it's like in the head. It's coming out of the head. And I think when things are expressed through the head, they're different than when they come down the arms. The arms are extensions of the heart. And I don't know what the relationship between like thinking and feeling, if we want to draw that sort of a dichotomy between head and the heart, and I don't mean to like be all Cartesian about the the thing or whatever, but but I do just think that there is something, and and there are studies, I don't know the information off the top of my head, but I know that there have been all kinds of studies done with the power of especially writing things by hand versus maybe dictating them or even typing. I mean, there is an I uh what I find is that when I'm writing for me, like journaling or brainstorming or making lists or whatever, I write by hand, but then if I'm writing something that will that is intended for someone else, I tend to type it. Um even though I can totally journal via typing. I don't know. Th there's uh there's so much about all of that that um I find really fascinating. Yeah. So I think I just took us down a little bit of a tangent here.

SPEAKER_00

But no, no, I don't think so. I I mean I liked hearing what you had to say about writing, especially because you're a writer. Um and I, you know, I've it's it's as as I've said, it's easier for me to extemporaneously talk than it is for me to ex you know to write. It it's just easier for me. Uh I would imagine for some people maybe the writing is easier than the talking. I don't know. It is it is just a different thing that's it in myself too.

SPEAKER_04

It's just a different because I hadn't been journaling in the morning for a different set of muscles or something a while, and I started to do that a little bit.

SPEAKER_00

Um and the difference between writing something that I don't think is ever gonna get read.

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, versus writing something that I think someone might read.

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Whoa.

SPEAKER_04

Oh whoa.

SPEAKER_00

That's a whole different thing.

SPEAKER_04

Well, I would encourage you to always write the first draft as if nobody's gonna read it, because there's gonna be stuff that comes out of that. If you're in my opinion, if you're writing and you can do whatever kind of mental gymnastics are necessary to get yourself to write as if nobody is going to read it, um that for me to do that, I have to turn down the volume on the inner critic. And so then it gets me to where I personally want to be with where I'm writing. And listen, like I write things sometimes for a living, and what you see is probably a quarter of what I wrote. Always. Like I I whatever, whenever you see anything that I have written, just know that I have written so much more than that. Uh-huh. It's like chiseling marble.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_04

I mean, that's what I find. It's like sometimes I know where it's gonna go. I mean, I just did this last with my newsletter last week. I probably wrote about three paragraphs before I was like, oh, here's here's the here's the beginning. It's like it's like I gotta you gotta do the preamble. That's what I find. I gotta do the preamble. And like maybe sometimes I use that, but I have to start out writing thinking I'm not gonna use this. And so I don't know, that's almost a living thing of being all already ready.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I'm thinking about it like that, and I'm like, what would then you know, I'm just sort of playing with how what you're saying it kind of takes this kind of takes the saying and makes it better. And I'm I'm trying to think of what is the upgrade that you're talking about exactly.

SPEAKER_04

But I mean it is sort of a living example of being already ready and trying is not doing it. Because I also the thing that I would say is that in the beginning, I don't know if everybody on the pod can hear the low rumble that's happening now, but I think there is dirt being pounded into the ground in the backyard. You can feel it in the ground. Yeah, the whole house is kind of shaking. It's amazing. This is this is what it feels to build foundation. Oh, I bet the neighbor is pissed. Sorry, neighbors, it'll be over soon. Yeah. Um my gosh, make some stock over the weekend.

SPEAKER_00

Bring it to people. Where was I gonna do that? I don't bake cookies, I make I make broth and give it to the neighbors.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, totally.

SPEAKER_00

Well, what we were talking about was your example around writing and how I I think if if I'm trying to bring it in. Let me try to paraphrase this as succinctly as I can. I want to it's like you're saying you're willing to tolerate imperfect output.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, absolutely. Well, uh that is definitely true.

SPEAKER_00

And that is part of the turning down that is part of the turning down of the critic. It is part of the working through of the resistance to the task, to the difficulty of the task, right? Because the task might be difficult. Sitting down to write could could be difficult. I mean, uh sitting down to write could be difficult.

SPEAKER_04

I don't care who you're talking to. You know, difficult.

SPEAKER_00

It could this this can apply to any sort of practice that that is a real practice, like writing is a practice, meditation is a practice, exercise requires practice. You know, you're not gonna do it. Love is a spiritual practice.

SPEAKER_04

Totally. Well, think of it like your warmup.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Like, and that's what I'm thinking about. Those first three paragraphs when I write, like I'm I'm it it's hard to start it's hard for me to start writing without trying. Like the first three paragraphs is the trying.

SPEAKER_00

It's like priming the ball is priming the pump is the way that I think about it. You're priming the pump, right?

SPEAKER_04

It's the warm-up. Yeah. Yeah. And then and then I get to a point where I'm like, oh, now I'm actually doing it.

SPEAKER_00

It's like starting the lawnmower. It's like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Totally.

SPEAKER_00

And then there it is. Unless you're me trying to start the lawnmower. And it's like, motherfucker.

SPEAKER_04

I thought it was can you do this? I quit.

SPEAKER_00

It's broken. This thing is broken. Let me look at it. Oh my goodness. Yeah, that's that's that's a that's a great example. I'm glad we went as into as much depth with that because I think that it's like that can be applied to so many regular practices, or you know, like if you wanted to use the word discipline, right? It's like these things are these things are a discipline. Yeah. Practice, a craft. I mean, craft is a yeah. I mean, the thing about these these intentionality sayings that I think is so great is that they're not particularly soothing.

SPEAKER_04

You know, but they're not quite this is what I like about them, but they're also not quite the Zen monk hitting you with a stick.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. That's true.

SPEAKER_04

It's like like that. I I don't I I just I I'm too Western to have to have a tolerance for that.

SPEAKER_00

For stick? For the stick hitting? For the stick hitting. I always kind of like that part. Well, depends. Actually, it depends.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, it's not not not as trauma-informed. Whereas the whereas whereas these, it's like they cut to the quick. Yeah, they cut to the quick, and then there's still uh an under, like there's there's still some soothing undercurrent. Yeah. There's still there's still the the the uh mischievous man um grinning and winking.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, you know, it's iron fist, velvet glove kind of stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah, I like it. It's my speed. Yeah. Um, well, listeners, I would be very curious to know where you might apply this to your life. And especially if this episode helps you to go out and do the thing that you may not feel already ready for, even though you are already ready. Tell us about it. I want to know. And of course Tell her about it. I wanna know. And of course, please send us all your texts and voice memos. We got some voice memos this week, too, from listeners. That was really fun. Um, of course, leave us a review, we'll read yours on the air and um take care of yourself.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, why not? Why not? See you next time.