Being Different Together

#25 - Intentionality, Part 10: Whatever It Is You Feel, Remember You Don’t Have To

• Nyssa Hanger • Episode 25

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0:00 | 49:18

What if your feelings weren’t the boss of you after all? 

Kelly and Nyssa continue their Uncle Murray intentionality series with two deceptively simple slogans: “Whatever it is you feel, remember you don’t have to” and “An opportunity missed is an opportunity missed.” 

They explore emotional regulation, tantrums (child and adult), grief, anxiety spirals, and perfectionism, sharing practices like 90‑second feeling waves, turning emotions into “little monsters” you can send to summer camp, and sending your inner critic on vacation. 

Through stories about hard conversations, spiritual community, starting a podcast years “late,” and the pressure of the American Dream, they offer a compassionate, practical reframe for anyone who overthinks, overfeels, or obsesses about the chances they didn’t take.


Main Topics Covered:

  • How to feel big emotions all the way through without getting stuck in them
  • The difference between real fear, everyday anxiety, and “concern”
  • Turning your emotions into little monsters you can lovingly send to “summer camp”
  • Why your inner critic deserves an all‑expenses‑paid vacation (and how to send it)
  • How we use feelings—consciously or not—to manipulate, control, or avoid others
  • “An opportunity missed is an opportunity missed”: what it doesn’t say and why that matters
  • The hidden cost of believing every missed chance will “ruin your life”
  • What a spiritual celebration of life taught them about legacy, memory, and being named
  • The quiet power of choosing not to send the angry text or chase instant reassurance
  • Starting a podcast after years of talking about it—and what imperfect action can unlock


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Stay in Touch:

Nyssa Hanger: www.nyssahanger.com | IG: @nyssahanger

Kelly Brady: www.kellybrady.me | IG: @drkellybrady

SPEAKER_03

Welcome to Being Different Together, the podcast for people who want to make the world a better place, but no, they can't do it alone.

SPEAKER_02

I'm Dr. Kelly Brady, acupuncturist, psychotherapist, and certified dialogue therapist.

SPEAKER_03

And I'm Nissa Hanger, massage therapist, aromatherapist, coach, and real dialogue specialist.

SPEAKER_02

Together we'll explore how conversations can improve relationships, make work more joyful, and spark healing for ourselves and our communities.

SPEAKER_03

And listen, we don't shy away from the hard conversations. In fact, we welcome them. This isn't about being right.

SPEAKER_02

It's about being different together.

SPEAKER_03

Hello, hello. This is being different. Together. And we are here dropping our twenty-fifth episode. Oh yeah. You know, if you listen to episode number 10, I like um milestones. And 25 feels like a milestone because the goal for the year is to publish 50 podcast episodes. That is one a week with a little bit of wiggle room, I guess.

SPEAKER_02

A little bit of wiggle room. How many weeks are there in a year? 52. 52.

SPEAKER_03

So So we only gave ourselves two weeks off? Well, do we want to do two weeks off or do we want to just keep on going and I don't know, man. I mean we got we got time to figure it out.

SPEAKER_02

It's not very it's it's not very like um we're not being good bosses to ourselves, maybe with the 50 goal.

SPEAKER_03

Well, you know what we could do is we could just encore replay some of our may most popular episodes.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I feel you with the 50 goal and I think I was ready to sign on to it, but you know upon upon reflection, I'm just thinking like, I mean, how many weeks off a year is really legit? I think six.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I like the momentum though.

SPEAKER_02

You like the momentum. Yeah. What if we had a week where we did more than one episode?

SPEAKER_03

You know, we talked about doing a bonus episode this week. I'm I'm remembering right now.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, but what I'm saying is what if we Yes, yes, and what if we had a week where we had more than one episode and that way we could take some weeks off entirely?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

That could work. Or we or we just double up batch record. That could work.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Well, listeners tell us, do you want us to take a week off or do you want to just keep the content coming?

SPEAKER_02

I mean, our loyal our loyal group of listeners.

SPEAKER_03

Our our um our listeners might need some you know extra support around the holidays. Something to consider.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that might be true. So I could use a little support, extra support today. We're working on the edition and oh yeah, it's it's going on. They're putting the roof on. So there's uh a lot, a lot going on uh in the in at the homestead today.

SPEAKER_03

It's it's quiet at the moment, but I do assume at some point you may hear some bang bang bang happening upstairs.

SPEAKER_00

She shot me, she shot me, bang, bang, she shot me, she shot me, she shot me, bang, bang, she shot me. You know that song? She shot me. No, but well, I need to record a link in the show notes she shot me, bang, bang, and you know that song?

SPEAKER_02

You know that song? Oh man, it's a really good song because it it runs at um it's 120 beats per minute, which is exactly the cadence to a good jog.

SPEAKER_03

Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So anyway, it is banging in here. Bangy? Bangy. It's bangy. They bangin'. So if it's our 25th episode, I am compelled to mention the great Shantae. Oh yeah. The Maestro.

SPEAKER_03

The movement maestro. The Maestro. Shantae's got a podcast called Maestro on the Mic, and definitely recommend checking that out. Uh, she's also been our podcasting teacher.

SPEAKER_02

She's our podcast guru. And if you know Kelly Brady, you know I like a guru. That is true. It's sad for better or worse.

SPEAKER_03

For bill death through you part.

SPEAKER_02

I do like a guru, boy.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, I know. Oh, I know.

SPEAKER_02

I do like a guru.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Do you think it's like the Sag thing? Maybe it's the Sag thing, right? The Sages are constantly wanting to teach and learn.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know, and I have I have, right, my my astrology. If we've never, I don't know if we've talked about this on the pod, that my astrology is that my sun sign is in sag and also my rising sign is in sag.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, double sag.

SPEAKER_02

I got a lot of sag.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know, um, um, I got a lot of sag.

SPEAKER_03

I wonder if you have stuff in your ninth house. I'm sure I have something there. There are you sometimes you have houses with no planets. What's the ninth house? That's about learning, like higher education, travel. I mean, I don't know if it is associated with um Sagittarius. I don't know if houses and and signs have associations, but it definitely um seems like a variation on a theme to me.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I mean, Shantae really helped us with this whole thing. I mean, she just gave us all of the production tips.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, yeah. I'm in I'm in Garage Band like a pro now. Which putting Easter eggs at the end of the episodes, by the way. Did you listen to the last episode? Oh, yeah, we can't. Did you listen to the end? You gotta make sure you listen to the end. Like I'm talking about the outro.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Oh I love that. I love when you go to the movies.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And then there's bloopers in the Yes. It's yeah, what there's be real in the I love that. Why do I love that so much? I just love it. I love a blooper.

SPEAKER_03

Oh yeah, me too. Bloopers are awesome. Instagram now knows I want to see all the Parks and Rack bloopers, which are mostly Chris Pratt and farting. Which is why I don't always show them to you. You know, part of being different together, sometimes you like different things. And the thing is, is I think farts are hilarious. Yeah. And she thinks they're gross. I think they're kind of gross. So I keep those videos for myself. But back to Shantae.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah, Shantae.

SPEAKER_03

Anyways, I don't know if you're hearing this. We'll definitely um link your stuff in the show notes just so people know that you're out there just um really helping uh people like us uh do business and do business better and um stay inspired.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, a lot of a lot of folks that I've talked to about the fact that we started this podcast are are they will often say, God, I've always wanted to do that.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Which, you know, we're getting into we're getting towards the subject here. Yeah, sure. And the slogans. Sure. One of our slogans for today is an opportunity missed is an opportunity missed. That's that's you know, for those of you who've been following along with our intentionality slogans that were uh given in an oral transmission by one of my graduate school professors, Marie Lansman.

SPEAKER_03

Uh oral transmission to you and written document to me.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I mean document is a loose term. Uh it was on a post piece of posterboard written with magic marker, right? Or piece of paper written with magic marker.

SPEAKER_03

I don't know what the actual material substance is for this framed artifact.

SPEAKER_02

Have you posted a picture of the framed artifact, right?

SPEAKER_03

I have, I have. So, yes, if you're just tuning in, please go back to episode number 16 where it is the first part of the intentionality podcast um series, and you'll get the the 411 on what it is that we're talking about and who this Uncle Murray guy is.

SPEAKER_02

Um Murray Lansman. Yeah. Well, he's also become sort of like a wizard avatar of um of wiz of wisdom.

SPEAKER_03

A wizard avatar of wisdom.

SPEAKER_02

He's a wisdom wizard.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean, I think he's taking on mythic status at this time.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, because part because part of what's going on is that you and I are commentarying these, and I've been really thinking about them and writing about them, and then you're gonna do that too. And um, and so you know, it's it's it's like uh we're adding to it, and as that's happening, I feel like we're fleshing out this character. You know what?

SPEAKER_03

I'm you know what is like he's the marshmallow man from Ghostbusters.

SPEAKER_02

Dude. That is just not the right metaphor, but I I'm kind of seeing this large Murray Lanceman.

SPEAKER_03

Can you imagine him like at the um the the the Macy's Thanksgiving parade? Like, what if there was a Murray flow? Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, like what do they call it? Um is it uh fictionalized history? Um historical fiction? Yes, yes, it's a genre, right? Yes, yes, yes. I mean, yes, uh, you know, like I think about what was my favorite. Oh well, I mean, we can certainly talk about the Clan of the Cave Bear series. Yes, yes, yes. As as historical somewhat, you know, some maybe some of the history is right. Yeah, we're I love the red tent. I mean, I like historical fiction.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So it it's like you take this older story, whatever, and then fictionalize it a bit. And so we're taking a lot of artistic and intellectual. Well, we're at least giving our interpretations to his sayings. I mean, I think right. Yeah, yeah. And and where you know, credit where credit is due. We give it to him, but of course. And at the same and you know, and he's and he's not here to receive it. But the interesting thing is like we went to a funeral over the weekend, right?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, a celebration of life.

SPEAKER_02

A celebration of life, and w and there were some beautiful sp speakers. I mean, it was one of the most beautiful celebrations of life.

SPEAKER_03

It was so nice.

SPEAKER_02

It w I i it was it was so beautiful. It was a Center for Spiritual Living. The Center for Spiritual Living. We should t just tag them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, yeah, if you're in Tampa and you're looking for a spiritual community, now I mean I'm saying this just having gone to the celebration of life there, but I mean the brownies were good. The brownies were good. Um yeah, if you're looking for a spiritual community where I guess the thing that I learned yesterday from uh a client who is involved over there is that what makes them different from somewhere like let's say Unity, yeah, is they don't talk about Jesus. Yeah. They'll or they'll talk about him as a teacher, or maybe they do that at Unity. But anyways, it's much more based on many other spiritual things.

SPEAKER_02

Anyways, so yeah, I mean I put it in the category of metaphysical Christianity, right? And and new thought, and I think they do a lot, they follow Ernest Holmes. Yes. And um Yeah, so it's very philosophical. It's very philosophical, very positive, and very centered in I think the message that everything in the universe is made of love.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02

It's a very unified love kind of path. But anyway, I think that during that uh back to what I was saying is that during that celebration of life, there was someone there were a couple of people who gave up and who who got up and and did some talks, right? Yeah. And one of them said something to the effect of you know, you're you're really like you're really gone the last time someone says your name.

SPEAKER_03

I think they said that that it's that we have three deaths. We have three. We have the death of our physical body. Yeah, and then we have the death of I'm trying to think of how it went, but yeah, it had to do with somebody saying your name.

SPEAKER_02

Like the the death of the last person who knew you personally or something, like the last person who knew you. Like there would be, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I feel like it was like it was like the the the saying of your name and then the memories of you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it was like the last time somebody speaks your name. Yeah. And it really hit me because I I have this sense that we've really resurrected um Murray. You know, yeah. Yeah, totally. And I'm I'm I the I don't have a doubt because he was such a lovely person that Hib's family continues to talk of him and there are stories, and there's probably some hallway somewhere.

SPEAKER_03

May this podcast series reach them.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, somewhere, you know, that you know, where there's a picture of him on the wall still and stories about him get told at dinner or when people are having coffee in the morning or whatever they're doing, you know. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But now there are people out because of this podcast. Right. There are people out there that know his name. I mean, I had a client that was like, Yeah, I think I've heard of this guy. Like, yeah. Yeah. But yes, you know of him now.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and I think he's you know, when we we first of all, his name is so great for it, but um it it's like he he does sort of touch in, I think, to something that's archetypal within our own psyche, which is you know, he he he taps into the wizard. He's he's very he's really able to, you know, turn chicken shit into chicken salad. Yeah, totally. He has a way of of pointing to alchemy.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And um, you know, this this this ability to, you know, sort of work with what's happening in life as opposed to against it, and to do it with some levity and um some humor, because you know, life is a joke.

SPEAKER_03

And either you get it or you don't. Uh episode number 24 is the last week's episode.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_03

So um well, the idea of alchemy, I think, leads us into um the first saying for today, yeah, which is whatever it is you feel, remember you don't have to. Doesn't that make you want to just punch somebody in the face?

SPEAKER_02

I sort of imagine when you were a kid that this must have annoyed you. Because when you say that, you know, like when you were a kid, did you read that and think, that's so annoying? Like what it's like.

SPEAKER_03

I'm trying to think of your childlike reflection on the whatever it is you feel. I think I I definitely would have gone to like um, you know, skinning my knee or you know, having some kind of boo-boo. Oh, the boo-boo. Yes. Oh, you mean the boo-boo? Talk about that. The plumbers came and they laid the pipes completely wrong. And of course, I saw it, and I think, oh, I don't know if I know, but I don't think that that is the way. And anyways, two days later, the other plumbers come, and I'm like, well, I'm gonna say something to these guys. I'm sorry if I if I said this before, but it is kind of one of the funniest stories of this whole edition. Yeah. So I just open up the door and I go, Hey, uh, good morning. Are you working with the updated plans?

SPEAKER_02

By the way, have you received the plans?

SPEAKER_03

Do you know how to do your job? And the guy turns around and he goes, Oh, is this because of the boo-boo? It's just so funny to see a plumber say that.

SPEAKER_02

Well, okay, so it's a great joke and it was hilarious, but also the thing that I love about it is that it was it took the narrative, his joke was very Murray-like. Yeah, totally. And that it first of all, it didn't diminish you personally.

SPEAKER_03

No.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

No.

SPEAKER_02

It wasn't the joke, it was not at your expense. No. Which I think is like important to say. Yeah. That he he didn't joke with people at their expenses. He he didn't do that. He was never he wasn't looking down his nose at you in any kind of way. Yeah. Like, oh, I have the wisdom, and you're a silly, uh-huh. Not wisdom person. Yes. Unwise first.

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Which it brought some lightness and then it changed that like narrative that said, This is a disaster. It totally. You know, or this is like this is gonna be too much.

SPEAKER_03

It's gonna take 40 minutes. We can figure it, you know, it's actually not that big of a deal. Um, okay, so whatever it is you feel, remember you don't have to. Yeah, I think that where my mind would go as a little kid. Um, well, also it's like Nissa, if you're having a temper tantrum, uh, you have other options. Which I don't think anybody said that to me directly. Um, but you know, I I think early.

SPEAKER_02

I mean you remember having temper tantrums.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, I I am oh yeah. Oh yeah. Really?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Um I think that there's uh as an only child of emotionally sensitive parents, there is um uh unfortunate for maybe them. Uh you learn how to manipulate your your caretakers by having a temper tantrum. Speaking for yourself, no. Yes. You're you learned how to I think that I did.

SPEAKER_02

Not to get into my own um whatever things and so then I appreciate your honesty. I think that a lot of people use their feelings to manipulate other people. Yeah, totally. Expressions of emotion to to control.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

So it's it's like, okay, well, I'll express this emotion, but I'm not really expressing an emotion. Really, I'm performing, expressing an emotion. So I can get what I want. But in the performance, I can start to believe what I'm feeling.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. Yes. This is the meltdown. Right.

SPEAKER_02

So road rage, perfect example. It's performative. But the person believes it. Uh-huh. War. Uh-huh. It's performative. Uh-huh. I'm going to show you how angry I am. Uh-huh. And then start to believe that that right? So it it it is a it it's a really man. It's like when I start to really do the commentaries on these feelings, on these on these slogans, they get really deep. Definitely. Well, I mean, I think anything you look at it long enough, especially me.

SPEAKER_03

It's true. It's like if you think about a word long enough, it just starts to say.

SPEAKER_02

It just starts to get weird. We can get a little psychedelic with it, but yeah. Yeah, I mean so you so it does. So that's a that's an interesting like.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I think that I well, I think that it did um help me to Well, and when I would just sort of have a meltdown, my parents' response would be to leave me alone.

SPEAKER_02

They would leave you alone.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I mean there there definitely was there definitely was like um, they just gave you space. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But at a certain point, they're like, okay, you're you're inconsolable.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Why don't you just go sit in your room for a little while? And then I had to deal with it myself, you know, which is not fun at the time, but I think ultimately is a good thing because again, if I'm thinking, well, whatever it is I feel, remember I don't have to. I mean, at a certain point. And I do this not in the meltdown sense, but um this saying really does also make me think of something that has helped me a lot. And I don't know if this is even scientifically true, but I heard once from Martha Beck that when we are feeling in on the molecular level or on the biological level or whatever, the the feelings, the emotions that are moving through our body and the chemicals, let's say, that are responsible for that.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um when we don't suppress those, it takes about 90 seconds for our bodies to process that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so in times when I have been very distressed, um, like for example, going through a divorce, there it or grief, yeah, it would also work for is like when all those feelings come up, yeah, if I'm thinking about it, I will set my timer on my watch for two minutes and then try to just ball as hard as I can until the timer goes off. And I will rarely get to those two minutes. Yeah. Because if I just let myself do it for those full 90 seconds, it'll move it'll move itself through. So in this sense of like, whatever it is I feel, remember I don't have to. Like, I can get myself to that other side of not feeling whatever it is that I'm feeling. Does that make it a little bit? By feeling it, actually.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Well, I mean, yeah. So I think what you're talking about is not adding to it with a narrative that says, I'm not gonna feel this. Right. And trying to suppress it. Right. And it's also I'm not gonna use this. I'm not gonna like milk it for like now I'm depressed for the city. I'm not gonna milk it. And and this is this is I think a difficult kind of thing to admit. Uh-huh. That that that maybe there's a a part of some of us that where we're milking, where we're having emotions and we're milking- I'm just gonna keep feeling bad. We're milking them. And I think some of that has to do with like this idea that you know of upper limit in the mind. It's sort of okay, I'm only allowed to be so peaceful. Sure. Like, what is my baseline for the way that I feel most of the time? Yeah. And um, and and I have to w one of the things that I've learned is that if I can open up the lower octaves and allow myself to sit and just, okay, I'm gonna experience some grief. I'm gonna experience some loss, some hurt, some loneliness. You know. I mean, generally think speaking, I think if I'm actually experiencing fear, I probably need to do something. Yes. And so that's not something to just sit just experien now, I'm not talking about anxiety, which goes nowhere. I'm talking about fear. Yes. Fear is a signal. Yes. You know, if I'm in a dark garage and I hear the pitter patter of big boots behind me at three o'clock in the morning, you can I can you can be assured I'm gonna move my ass. Like I am not gonna be like, well, I think now's a really good time for me to sit down and experience this fear. Maybe now's the time for me to just pause. I'll just pause and ask for the correct thought or action. For those of you who know that slogan from the 12 step rooms. You know, it's like, uh no. And that's in that instance, I need to, you know, go ahead and have that sympathetic nervous system, fight, flight, freeze, you know, whatever I need to do.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, where there is an actual existential threat or potential existential threat versus the fear that all that I experience with a variety of details with this addition. And then I'm going throughout my day being afraid that the doors aren't gonna open correctly because of the way that they're positioned. This is my current obsession. Um it's like that's a fear where, yeah, sure, maybe I'll ask some questions or get some more information, but it's like I don't need to be carrying that fear around. Sure.

SPEAKER_02

I mean you could even put it into the category of concern. Right, exactly. Or worry. It's a concern. Right. I you know, this is on my radar. I have a concern about this.

SPEAKER_03

Right, exactly. You know, but I don't need to be sitting here washing the dishes, no, um, running through so many bad scenarios of again, it's a disaster with the narrative that it's a disaster. No, I really would like I I think it's appropriate for you to share that little that thing about the feelings and the monsters. Oh, because I've never heard you say say this, and I think it's adorable, number one. And what a great exercise to maybe shift how you're feeling. I mean, is that yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you know, it really the what I was doing. No, they were anger. Yeah, I was I was angry. And I was also feeling really hurt and humiliated. I had had just a very difficult meeting, and it it went south, as meetings can do, and tempers flared. Yeah, and I was on the receiving end of a fair amount of um aggressive behavior from others, and I may have engaged in some aggressive behavior with others. I don't, you know, I that's that's a possibility. Yeah. You know, looking back at the experience, I think I kind of held my own and stayed diplomatic, but I I'm guessing that that was my own. I I'm thinking maybe some people thought I was aggressive, also. It's possible. Right, totally. Um, in that it felt like I was on the receiving end, and usually I generate a bit of that. Like if I'm honest, if some someone's aggressive with me, I've often evoked it in some way. Sure. Um, not that I'm blaming myself for other people's behavior, but I can't. Well, I mean, I can see that, you know, it's a complex interaction between people um when that kind of thing goes on. And anyway, I don't like to blame others for my uh emotional responses because what I find when I do that is that it makes me um unhappier. I actually feel more peaceful and relaxed when I can take take responsibility for what my part in things were. So anyway, I had just kind of had a difficult, um, difficult meeting that lasted late late into the night longer than I would have liked for it to. I mean, we really didn't finish until about uh quarter after nine, and then I was pretty ramped up after, so I took a drive and you know had a cry and um texted a friend about something else just to get myself out of the space. But I woke up in the morning after this meeting at I I woke up at five in the morning, and when I woke up, my body just felt like a brick. Like I my whole body, I mean, I think even my nostril was tense. Like, do you know what I'm saying? Like, I just woke up, like my my my fists were clenched, my teeth were clenched, um, my pelvic floor was sucked up. Like, you know what I mean? I was in a root lock.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um and I was like, okay, Kelly, Kelly, just let's see if you can get back to sleep. And um, so you know, I do all the things I tell myself to try not to think about this, try not to, try not to go back and obsess about this meeting.

SPEAKER_04

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02

Good luck.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's like don't think of it. Don't think of a vanilla.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Or, you know, like so I said, okay, all right, just surrender, surrender. You're just gonna you're just gonna have to sort of this is a moment sometimes in the middle of the night where something will come to visit, and I think you just have to reckon with it, you know. It's there's a reckoning. It's like I just have to reckon. And I this does go back to something that I learned from Murray, and and it might have been around the time that I I heard him, you know, with this the slogan, repeat the slogan again. Whatever it is you feel, remember you don't have to. Remember, you you don't have to. And he would say it kind of like that. Well, whatever it is you feel, just remember.

SPEAKER_03

You don't have to.

SPEAKER_02

You don't have to. You know, then he'd smile.

SPEAKER_03

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Like you don't have to. And it it would break, it's like it broke the spell. You've got options here, you know. It would break the spell. It would break the spell. One time he said to me, I was really getting down on myself about, you know, I mean, back then I would get upset if I got an A minus instead of an A. And um he he said to me, you know, Kelly, he said, you should just send your inner critic on vacation. And he and he did, and and then in the following class, I mean, I imagine this is something that he used to do with people, he he led us through a meditation where we sort of visualized our inner critic, this parts, right? If you if you think internal family systems has the corner on the market on parts work, you're wrong. Um it's been around, it's based in Youngin' psychology. And um it's a very good model. I'm not dissing it, let me say. I think it's a very effective way of talking about the psyche. So he was like, you know, imagine your inner critic and then put your inner critic on a magic carpet and send her him off on vacation. And what would your life be like if you sent your inner critic off on vacation? So as I was laying there with my body in a brick, I started thinking about all the feelings that I was having. And I just thought, okay, I'm gonna let my my mind give myself, I used some active imagination, yeah, which is a Jungian technique. And and I played around with it a bit, and I I just gave myself permission to let a symbol come up in my mind about what all these feelings looked like. Yeah. And what came up for me was that they looked like little COVID-19 viruses, but they had little legs and arms, kind of like and googly eyes. It's and they were all different colors. They weren't just green. Yeah, but they were like little round circles and they had, you know, stick stick legs. Yeah. You know, I mean, it it's like, I don't know if you you this is probably before your time, but there was this schoolhouse rock character that was a hard-boiled egg with toothpick legs.

SPEAKER_03

His name was Time for Timer. Okay. Uh-huh. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02

And he was a three-minute egg, you know, and he came out and he'd talk about what are you gonna eat for school after, you know, what are you gonna eat?

SPEAKER_01

What's your after-school snack? Oh, look, cheese and crackers, it's a wagon wheel.

SPEAKER_02

You know, he was like this little cartoon character. Kind of looked like that. And I thought, well, how many of them are there? I was imagining that there might just be like three. And and I closed my eyes for a minute, and then I just imagined myself in a room and I turned around, and there were like 700 of them all in a little wiggly pile of all and I was like, okay, well, what am I gonna do with all these feelings? And then I thought, I'm just gonna pack them, each a little suitcase, and send them to summer camp because it's it's summer. And each one that comes out, I'm just gonna say, hey, here's your bag. Here's your bag. And I also gave each one a little hug. I gave each one a little hug like I was their mom. Yeah. And I was sending them off to summer camp to rehabilitate. This is this is a lot of a lot of psychology and spirituality that I've just learned over the years, which is Tik Nan Han would say, you know, when you're really feeling, you know, like go to your feelings like you're your feelings mother, basically, and just be like, oh, hello, anger. Yeah. I know you, honey. Yeah. Hi, baby. So that somehow that process of getting that bit of distance and seeing, okay, these are narratives, these are parts of me, this isn't all of me, this is just a tough night. I'm just gonna one by one send these feelings off on vacation. Eventually I I fell asleep. It took about two hours. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

There were a lot of them.

SPEAKER_02

There were a lot of them.

SPEAKER_03

But I just love this idea of like taking your feelings, turning them into little monsters, yeah, packing them a bag and putting them on a bus.

SPEAKER_02

Well, it's like really how existentially threatened I can become by a difficult emotion. And this is that part of me where I'm, you know, to use, you know, kind of the modern day pop psychology stuff, like working on regulating myself emotionally. Yeah. So that if I'm if I'm more and more open to these lower octaves, then I then on uh the other the other end opens up too. So then peace is easier for me to feel for longer periods of time, you know, the more exalted states of human consciousness, um you know, the four immeasurables like compassion, sympathetic joy, meta, love, loving kindness, um, the ability to be happy for others and their success.

SPEAKER_03

That all making sense.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, no, totally.

SPEAKER_03

So yeah, it's like the more you feel, the more you feel.

SPEAKER_02

Totally. Yes, yes. And and I think that there is something different about these exalted states of of human consciousness than these sort of more self-conscious emotions. And it's like the the self-conscious emotions are really um are are not always the things I want to be paying attention to. They're kind of like the things I need to reckon with. But I don't know that I want to be coming from them necessarily.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Well, that's you know what I mean? Like I don't like, does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and I think the the thing that this saying um offers up is hey, you have a choice. Right. Like you have a choice. Whatever it is you feel, remember you don't have to. It's not saying don't feel it. Correct. Which I think is really important. It and it's not even saying whatever bad feeling that you have, remember you don't have to. Like it really is talking about all the things. Sure.

SPEAKER_02

Or I mean it it's um Yeah, absolutely. It's talking about all the yes, yes. I mean, I think I what I found myself thinking about was how this could play out in a relationship between people and um like maybe you know, like um I don't know if I feel annoyed. Sure, or like when couples have a difference in in um uh like one person wants to end the argument and they want reassurance. Yeah and they want that reassurance immediately. Sounds familiar. Well, it's really common. Yeah. You know, I mean like I just see that over and over again. And I hear people I hear my friends and clients talk about it like um, you know, it's like you no, you don't you don't need to send the angry text. You don't need the reassurance immediately. Like this is just a little monster. Yeah, and um send it on vacation. It's it's great. Uh you know, one of my favorite calligraphies that I that I've ever seen was done by John Didalori, and it's like it's it's um he's an American Zen master, and it's a a portrait that he did of um a demon that's sitting in meditation. And it's like, okay, here's sometimes here's what shows up sometimes. Like, you know, here's here's what shows up.

SPEAKER_03

So without um Shall we talk about our our next thing? Yeah, totally. Uh an opportunity missed. What is an opportunity missed? So let's break it down.

SPEAKER_02

Well I mean, one of the things that I can get stuck in personally is that I think if I missed an opportunity, it's gonna ruin my life.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And yeah, it totally is like this is the this is the thing that's gonna change my I mean like why do I get into this narrative anyway that my whole life needs to be changed? I I I think that that's been sold to me by capitalism, by the way.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, I do think that there's some things uh unpacked there for sure.

SPEAKER_02

I uh right, like if only I had the right deodorant and the right wrinkle cream and um all those things and all those things that you're that you're not good enough as you are, that's right, you know, blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_03

There's something better around the corner. Um I think that yeah, and that's I think it's sort of like i implied in the American dream and um Yeah, yeah, I think that's right that it's implied in the American dream. And so, you know, the when we were talking about this thing last night, um yeah, I feel again I'm thinking about little Nissa. It's like there's one scene in my head of being in that downstairs bathroom and reading it and then saying, What does this mean? What is and like my mom's over here, whatever, and I can just you know and usually when I say what it what do they mean in my head, the narrative the the the the movie that plays in my head, my mom literally just repeats the saying, but it's like where her emphasis is, like her inflections, yeah, yeah, yeah. So this was well, you know, it's always starts, well, you know, an opportunity missed is an opportunity missed. And like the hands go to the side, sort of like like that emoji of like the hand and the palms up, like whatever. I mean, and that's sort of the sense that I get from it is that like there's an opportunity missed. Like, don't don't deny that an opportunity missed is indeed an opportunity missed. You know, like don't don't let's not gloss over the fact that you missed an opportunity, but also um an opportunity missed. It's not saying that's part of what I do with the saying sometimes. It's like, what are they what what is it not saying? He didn't say an opportunity missed is the utmost failure.

SPEAKER_02

No, an opportunity missed. It's just you missed that opportunity, that's all it is.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And I and I feel like So don't inflate the narrative. Don't inflate the narrative. Like, don't, don't like take the middle path with this sort of a thing. Like, yeah, maybe it's a little bit of a bummer. Is it the end of the world? Enough. Right. Because if this opportunity is missed, there there's probably another opportunity.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Well, right. I mean, in Buddhism, there's this like constant invitation to come back to immediacy, you know, like what's happening. Okay, right now. Uh-huh. Um, and um but you know, there are all these stories about trying not to suffer twice.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

The one that I really like is, and I'll I'll I'll do my best to make it short, there are two monks um, but they've but they've both taken a vow that they are not allowed to touch a woman. So, you know, when you take monastic vows, they're much more specific. Yes. So you're they're not even allowed to touch a woman, right? Or look at a woman, touch a woman, and they they they come to a river and they have to cross the river, and there's a damsel in distress at the side of the river, right? Now these are young monks. They've uh actually the story is one is older, the the other one is younger. And they've taken a vow of celibacy, which PS, not easy. Um, uh which is why they're not allowed to look at women. Yeah. Not even look. Yeah. Right? Um and uh so they come to the the river, uh older monk, younger monk, and uh damsel in distress, and the older monk just looks at the damsel and picks her up and carries her across the river. So he breaks his vow.

SPEAKER_03

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02

And the younger monk, and and he puts the woman down, and the younger monk is like Master. I mean basically he gives him a WTF, like and is judging him. Like, yeah, how could you do this? You broke your vow. He's really angry with him.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know, he's he's just furious with him. Blah blah blah. And the master just turns around and says, I put her down on the side of the river. You're still carrying her. And that's the story. It's it's like how we suffer twice.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Right. There's another one about when the arrow goes in, don't pull it out because you injure yourself twice.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, you know, it's it's it's that's I do feel like that's part of the saying is an opportunity miss, is an opportunity miss, don't suffer twice.

SPEAKER_02

Right, don't suffer twice.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, you missed it.

SPEAKER_02

You missed it, and it's okay. And also it might be good because we don't know everything that's going on here. So it's like counterbalanced with the idea of of okay, intentionality and working with what I am aware of in myself, my conscious mind. I like to keep in mind too that there's so much about me that is a mystery that I I don't know about. And I really I mean, like, I don't know it. But it's awe-inspiring.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I I think it's it's like what what? You know, I contain multitudes as well, and I don't know what they are.

SPEAKER_03

No.

SPEAKER_02

I might I might have to be a man.

SPEAKER_03

And they might be little, you know, COVID-19 monsters.

SPEAKER_02

They might be a little COVID-19 monster. I mean, you know, it's like, do you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know what they are. So maybe there's something happening here that I don't I can't see at all. And so if there was an opportunity and I missed it, you know, maybe like I could could I be okay with that. Sure. And maybe there are things I missed that I'm telling you, I would have liked to have missed that meeting on Tuesday.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I think this is the this is looking back on it now, I think I missed an opportunity to not go to that meeting because I thought about it. You know, I I know, I know. I really did. I know. I was like, you know, I don't have to do this. This is not a have to. Yeah. Uh I mean, you know, nothing in my professional life. I mean, I'm I'm a real, I'm very blessed in that nothing in my professional life is a have to. I'm very, very blessed. I really am so grateful for the lifestyle that I have where I get to, you know, I work for myself. I love that. I'm willing to tolerate the risk of being an entrepreneur. Yes. Which it is risky. I'm willing to hold that risk because for me, the benefit is that I really don't have to answer to anybody but myself. So, you know, I I could have uh missed that.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and I think that this is where you know, with this the saying, I feel like it goes either way.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, say more.

SPEAKER_03

It goes either it it's it's one of those things where it's like you can you can project onto it what works for you. Okay. Um doesn't that go back to another slip slogan? I was gonna say, is this reminiscent of everything works, nothing works? Is that the one?

SPEAKER_02

And what was the other one? Like choose the choose the belief. When in doubt, yeah. When in doubt.

SPEAKER_03

Choose the belief that is most useful to you. Yes. Useful. Yeah. Choose the belief that is most useful to you. So, you know, I think my memory is that when we first started talking about the saying, is that part of what it evokes for you is, oh, I want to take the opportunity. An opportunity missed is an opportunity missed. Oh yeah, I'm always wanting to take the opportunity. And so I think that it works like that way too. So it's sort of like, you know, what what mood are you in right now?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I'm I'm always in the mood to take an opportunity. Well, so that's probably why you did show up to that meeting. It probably isn't, you know, honestly, sometimes it's not such a good thing, which is one of the things that that's where you lean into the other reading of the saying.

SPEAKER_03

An opportunity miss is an opportunity miss.

SPEAKER_02

Like, hey, why don't you miss that opportunity, KB? You know, you don't have to do everything. I tend to very much be a why not person.

SPEAKER_03

Sure. Yeah, no, I get that.

SPEAKER_02

And well, it's sometimes it's it can be a problem. In the same way, on the if you look at the other extreme, I mean maybe sometimes I could I could be too extreme around that. So working towards being more harmonious with myself is an intention I have. But it's but it's also like, okay, you know, I a lot of I know a lot of people who don't take opportunities, so don't leave the house, for example. Right.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_02

You know, who are playing out the other side of that.

SPEAKER_03

Um, you know, reading it as an opportunity missed as an opportunity missed. Right, right, right, right, right. Would would maybe be more helpful. But I just I you know, I think it I think it also points to the larger theme of a lot of these sayings, which is you don't have to do it perfectly. Correct. Like, miss the opportunity, yeah, take the opportunity, try all the options. Yeah, it's okay. You know, I have a a friend of mine that is there's more than two ways to skin a cat.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_03

Like I have a friend of mine that is amazed at my ability to make a decision about whatever in my life. Yeah. Sometimes big decisions, yeah, and then three to six months later, completely 180 change that decision. Yeah. And and I'm not and and then I put her down at the at the river. You know, I'm not then thinking about it. I'm like, okay, let's let's grab it and let's let it go. Like it doesn't okay, maybe the other way wasn't working out or whatever, but just not just continuing to move forward instead of going over all this stuff in my head and needing to do it perfect. Now, there are plenty of other places I've had to really work around recipes and cooking a new recipe and fearing I'm gonna mess it up.

SPEAKER_02

You're I think you're a wonderful cook. You made that noodly thing.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that was good. That was good. But you know, just really working through that perfectionism part of it, I think it it points to that as well.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, and that that thing of right, an opportunity missed is an opportunity missed. And and I mean, what was the slogan about anything worth doing is worth doing badly? So what this kind of I mean, it comes up a lot where uh you know, when like where I'm I'm working with myself or I'm working with clients, and maybe I'll say something like you know what, I I know you're having this difficult time in this relationship. With so-and-so, this person who you really love very much. Why don't you go ahead and talk to them about it? How you're actually experiencing the relationship. And it's like, oh, I could never do that. Or they would never it gets projected. They would never understand. They would never hear me. That becomes the projective identification, right? Because they won't understand, I don't share. And then that sets the person. But then you're withholding. Then the person doesn't know that I'm having this experience. So the person continues to behave the same way, which validates my confirmation. That that I won't listen. That validates my confirmation b bias that says I'm right about this person. Yes. And you know, and it and it keeps I mean, I walk through that pretty quick. But do you see you see what I'm saying there? And and you know, so it's like I could really hear Murray saying. And I'm often saying to clients, like, Well, you know, yeah, you could choose to continue to behave with this person in the same way, not talk about it. But you could talk about it and, you know, an opportunity miss is an opportunity missed. Totally. Like, what if you talked about it and it wasn't perfect? What if you talked about it and they did misunderstand? What if they talked about it and you did get a little upset?

SPEAKER_03

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02

Like, could all that be okay? Right. Right. Totally. I mean, like, could all that be okay? And whatever you're feeling, you you know, you remember. You don't have to. You don't have to. You don't have to in that in that same kind of way.

SPEAKER_03

You know, assuming that that they're gonna take it this way or that when they said this thing, it meant this other thing.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Right. It's like I teach a lot of stress management to medical professionals, and I like to call it distress management because some stress is good, but it's distress management. And one of the one of one of the things I talk about a lot is like the languaging that you use in your own mind about the way you describe something. Like, you know, no matter what you feel, remember you don't have to. Like you could tell yourself this inflated narrative about your emotions. Yeah. This is a disaster. This is the worst ever. Worst thing ever. And sometimes that's funny and it's a way to discharge. Sure. And I'm okay. That that I think is just like what it is. But you know, getting stuck in a rut with that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03

But when you're saying that to person after person after person, versus just this narrative. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Or to yourself, right? I mean, it it goes back to sort of you know, chicken littling it. You know, the sky is falling, the sky is falling. Right, right, right. You know, the sky's falling, the sky's falling. And um it's just raining.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_02

You know. Yeah. So I mean, I it it it opens up, I think, like um Oh, here's here's just the last thing I want to say about this, because I think we're uh it's probably time for me to go to the office. Time to go to the office, listeners. Um I lost it.

SPEAKER_03

The one thing I wanted to say about this saying is just to tie it up, is um the other thing with an opportunity miss is an opportunity miss. It's like if there is something that you are thinking about doing and you've wanted to do it for so long, like let's say start a podcast, yeah, just freaking do it. Like we are now six months and twenty-five episodes in to podcasting. And you know, we didn't miss that opportunity at the beginning of the year. Now, there were other times, all these other years that we talked about it, those were opportunity missed. It took us three years to get it. That's fine, let those go. But at that certain point, it was like, oh, okay, we're gonna let's let's do it. Let's not let this be a missed opportunity. And look, here we are. Yeah, here we are.

SPEAKER_02

And in the process of like just doing it imperfectly. Yes. We're I think we're I well, I'll speak for myself. I think I'm getting better at it. I think I'm more clear about what I want to be talking about, about what the foundation of the show really is. Yeah. There was a part of that that I think just I wanted to allow that to evolve. It was like we started it with some kind of things in mind, but I was aware that I didn't want to box this too in.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know, to any one paradigm. Yeah. Um, and so yeah, I think it's been evolving and um, you know, you you've been doing just an amazing job. I mean, at the end of every episode, I just feel the need to say this episode is brought to you by Nissa Hanger. Put my radio voice on and say Being Different Together Audio producer. You know, it's like the end of the end of Fresh Air. Fresh air was produced by Monica Winkleman. Yeah. Um Being Different Together was produced by Nissa Hanger.

SPEAKER_03

Stephen being cooley.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. Yes, exactly. Um audio engineering brought to you by Jim Jackner and Coffee. Yeah, and coffee. So yeah, right on.

SPEAKER_03

No, no, totally.

SPEAKER_02

Right on.

SPEAKER_03

Um, so y'all go out there and um take some opportunities. Yeah, be different. Or miss them. Be different together. Be different together.

SPEAKER_02

This episode is brought to you by Nissa Hanger.