Being Different Together

#27 - Intentionality, Part 12: Find a Pleasant Path

• Nyssa Hanger

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0:00 | 42:16

Want your life to actually feel different—not just look the same with new intentions on top? 

Kelly and Nyssa unpack two of Uncle Murray’s most quietly radical intentionality sayings, “You can’t be different by acting the same” and “Find a pleasant path,” exploring how tiny, sustainable shifts in behavior can transform habits, money choices, health, and even how you move through pain and aging. 

Through stories about changing grocery stores, managing back pain, navigating construction chaos, and wrestling with nostalgia and resistance, they show how incremental change plus genuine enjoyment is more powerful (and realistic) than white‑knuckled self‑improvement. 

If you’re craving practical, compassionate guidance on building new habits, aligning your daily actions with your values, and making your path more pleasant without spiritual bypassing, this conversation on intentionality, behavior change, and everyday joy is for you.

Main Topics Covered:

  • How two simple sayings—“You can’t be different by acting the same” and “Find a pleasant path”—can quietly revolutionize your everyday choices
  • Why tiny, almost laughably small changes (like putting on your shoes or switching grocery stores) can matter more than big dramatic goals
  • The surprising emotional baggage hiding inside brand loyalty, money habits, and where you buy your food
  • What chronic pain, back issues, and “mind medicine” teach about suffering versus sensation
  • How 12‑step “slogans,” therapy wisdom, and Uncle Murray’s intentionality practices all weave together
  • The Icelandic motto “it’ll work out,” antidepressants, and what truly happy cultures can teach us about resilience
  • The role of curiosity, play, and even elves (yes, elves) in finding a more pleasant path through weird, hard human lives
  • Why cutting expenses, changing habits, or aging well doesn’t have to feel like punishment or deprivation
  • The difference between accepting life’s difficulty and unconsciously choosing a painful path you don’t actually have to stay on


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Stay in Touch:

Nyssa Hanger: www.nyssahanger.com | IG: @nyssahanger

Kelly Brady: www.kellybrady.me | IG: @drkellybrady

SPEAKER_05

Welcome to Being Different Together, the podcast for people who want to make the world a better place, but no, they can't do it alone.

SPEAKER_03

I'm Dr. Kelly Brady, acupuncturist, psychotherapist, and certified dialogue therapist.

SPEAKER_05

And I'm Nissa Hanger, massage therapist, aromatherapist, coach, and real dialogue specialist.

SPEAKER_03

Together we'll explore how conversations can improve relationships, make work more joyful, and spark healing for ourselves and our communities.

SPEAKER_05

And listen, we don't shy away from the hard conversations. In fact, we welcome them.

SPEAKER_03

This isn't about being right. It's about being different together.

SPEAKER_05

And here we are recording on our normal day. Yep. Nobody's here working on the house. It's quiet. Yeah. It's quiet. You never know what you're gonna get with this uh construction going on.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, I know. I know. It is a nice quiet morning. It is. And we are just commenting that I like a I like a quiet morning. You do like a quiet morning. Yeah, a nice slow quiet morning. And it's it's really nice to have a life where I can have one of those. Almost every morning. Totally. Oh, I'm so grateful. So we're continuing in our series on the case.

SPEAKER_05

This I believe is gonna be number 12. We've got this week and next week, we'll be wrapping it up. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_03

It's been great. I've really well I've enjoyed it. I've enjoyed it so much. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. And I'm I'm definitely, I mean, I I think that just talking about it and well, of course, I've been you know, we've been writing about it, talking about it. It's I've it's helped my I feel like it's helped me. Yeah, in what ways? Well, I I do have an experience of of the of the slogans being refreshed in my in like my working memory.

SPEAKER_05

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03

Like there's something about sitting with a slogan every week and that it's kind of like I I don't know, here's the image that's coming to me right now. It's like when I work with a slogan, then it opens that tab for the week and and then it's fresh or something in my mind. And so then when things are happening, just day-to-day things that you know might cause me a moment of like pause or grumble. I might have a grumbly moment. What is this thing I don't like? Yeah. What did I just lose that I really love? Or what was just given to me that I don't want, you know, like um yeah, that they're they're just such great you know, little pieces of medicine. They're like these little descriptions.

SPEAKER_05

It's like taking a mind pill.

SPEAKER_03

A little mind medicine.

SPEAKER_00

Time for your medicine. This is Brady, it's time for your 3 p.m. medicine.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, time for your 3 p.m. dose of intentionality. Yeah, totally. It has I I don't know, like what's yeah, that's mine. How about what what are you doing?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I would say, um Oh man, what was it the other day? Oh yeah, oh yeah. You were you were just having a little bit of that that grumbly, angsty, whatever. And I really resisted the urge that Saturday morning. Yeah. I was grumbly, yeah, last Saturday morning. Oh well, anyways, I really resisted the urge to say to you, Well, you know, Kelly. Whatever it is you feel, remember you don't have to. Yeah, I'm like, this is not the time. Yeah. I I'm just gonna say this. But it I hear you that they're you know, they're sort of like in my head a little bit. And then I've been thinking it for myself now. I've been dealing with a little bit of back pain this week. And I thought to myself, Nissa, whatever it is you feel, remember you don't have to. And I'm like, that doesn't apply to physical pain.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I think the way that it yeah, that's a really good point, but there's the suffering that goes along with physical pain that it does apply to. Totally. And it's sort of like, you know, I mean, I've got some chronic issues that I deal with as well. And you know, it's like the way I expand or contract around those really has a lot to do with my experience of them.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. If I would not get if I, you know, get all contracted and fearful and or angry that I have this discomfort or something. I mean, I you know, there's so many ways that I can make pain worse. Uh-huh. Like I'm just in there throwing fuel on it. Right, right. Yeah. Can I at least not make it worse? Let's not make it worse.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. No, I mean, I think that that's a good perspective. And even though it's like, okay, well, I'm trying to not feel this physical pain, um, there's also yeah, all the things that I might tell myself around it that don't make it any better. And it's like, okay, well, I don't have to do that part. No. You know, I really can just accept it for what it is, it will pass. Um, so that that has definitely been really helpful. And I would say that that over the so we've been doing this for this if this is episode number um 11. 11 or 12. Oh gosh, I can't remember. In the series, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I think this is number 12. So it's like we've been doing this for three months. Yeah. And I would say in those three months, yeah, coming back to these sayings, and I I didn't mention yet, but if you're just tuning in and you have no idea what this intentionality series is, please check out I ha linked it in the show notes, or you can just go back to episode number 16 where we started the whole thing, so you'll get the context. Um but over that time, I think that it has sort of sustained for myself my own curiosity for this idea of like, okay, well, how do I want to show up? And not and not just like make a decision and then show up because I have to make that decision. How do I want to show up today? How do I want to show up at this podcast podcast recording? How do I want to show up for my clients later? How do I want to show up when I come home tonight?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

You know, like it there it's an ever renewing opportunity to um, you know, check myself, basically. That's great.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, that's great. What are the that's wonderful. I mean I love hearing that. What are the what are the slogans? What are the sayings for today? Oh, we also had a discussion last week about this was a mid this was a mid pod discussion. Yeah. What is are these actually slogans?

SPEAKER_05

Okay, I mean I was just gonna go on the record and say that I I don't feel like slogan is the right word for them. Correct, correct. But it has been I'd never wanted to correct you, you know. The the that's that's the word that keeps coming out of your mouth. And I think in some instances with some definitions of the word slogan, because you know we looked it up. We looked it up, it it does apply. There were certain contexts that slogan is used to apply to what I would call a saying, um or you know, maybe more like specific an aphorism. Um how about a motto? I feel like motto motto motto for me goes with slogan because they're both like very specific for a very specific thing. It's like my motto is or such and such brand slogan is. Whereas these are maybe I would adopt one of these as like this one. That's my motto. That's the one I'm gonna live my life by.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, so motto implies just one thing.

SPEAKER_05

I feel like it implies just one thing. Now, I did not look up that definition. Is the plural of motto? Matos. Why is that funny? I don't know. Because it sounds like I'm saying a motto. Okay, somebody gotta make a joke out of that. Oh my goodness. That's my goodness. So yeah. Um And I think, you know, we can continue.

SPEAKER_03

Listeners, if you got um So for me, it comes from you know, when I was a teenager, I got involved in the 12-step programs. Um, every single solitary one of them, if you're whoever's listening is curious. And um You were doing the sampler. I was. And um one of one of the uh recommendations that's given in the world tradition, as I recall it, in the 12-step programs, is to what they call use the slogans. They say use the slogans. Uh-huh. And that is a slogan or you know, a saying if you want to get so specific about it. But what they said, what that's that's what they used to say back then. Right. You know, back when I used to ride a dinosaur to the meetings because it was the middle.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, five miles through the snow. Five miles through the snow. Yes, you know, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03

Um, but yeah, so the the it was like use this use the slogans, you know, when you get in a tight spot, you're getting ready to return to some kind of old behavior that you really don't want to return to, whatever it is. And um, you know, so at that point, I you know, when I first started, I was doing a lot of um Al-Anon meetings, adult child of alcoholics meetings, and it was like instead of returning to obsessing about my relationship, because that's what I was very wont to do at that age was obsessed about my love relationship.

SPEAKER_05

Well, that's relatable.

SPEAKER_03

And um, and what I what I kind of didn't realize at the time was that that was also because I was 17 years old. It wasn't because I had a raging case of codependency. I was just young. Um, but it didn't matter because the tools worked nonetheless. Whatever it was that I we called it, it didn't matter. Yeah. And um, so all that obsessing about other people and my relationship or trying to control events that were outside my control, etc. Um, anyway, if I didn't want to go back to doing that, I wanted to try and do something different. Um they would say, you use a slogan. And so the common s the most common slogan there is uh one day at a time.

SPEAKER_05

Right. And so this is a context where slogan is used outside of marketing that I was not aware of.

SPEAKER_03

And it's just a cultural thing. Yeah. You know, it's a culture well, it's a cultural appropriate I mean, I don't know, it's not appropriation, but it's uh it's like that culture took that word and applied it to um cultural natural. You know, and I do kind of wonder if, you know, if that's Murray used the term. As I recall it, Murray used the term. Now, because I don't have my original um just if you're listening for the first time, Barry Lansman was my uh graduate, my beloved one of my beloved graduate professors uh in the rehabilitation counseling program at USF in the early 90s. I graduated from that program in '93. I took his intentionality class in probably '91 because it was an initial class. And um what I recall was that there was a syllabus, there was no text. Uh-huh. It was all oral. The whole um the whole class. That's great. Yeah. Um just went by the syllabus. There was there, I don't even remember a a suggested reading list. There had to have been. There had to have been. There had to have been, but I I don't I don't recall it. Anyway, I I remember him using that word. Yeah. So Yeah. So it doesn't, yeah, I mean, you know, I I like to look at the meanings of words and what I mean. Just because I'm curious, especially when I'm taking a deep dive into something. Um and then learning about, you know, the difference between all of these things and because they all are like different types of medicine. Yeah. So the the the the sayings today are let's start with this one.

SPEAKER_05

Okay. You can't be different by acting the same. Yes. You can't be different by acting the same.

SPEAKER_03

Okay. And then the second one is find a pleasant path.

SPEAKER_05

There we go. Find a pleasant path. Yes. So let's start with you can't be different by acting the same.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, and just by the way, I want to clarify, I I think that Murray put these in a certain kind of order because they all kind of do feed off of each other in different ways.

SPEAKER_05

Okay. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03

I as I've as I've worked with them, I'm I'm realizing that more and more. But you know, we we have them in this order that are on what what was written down by your the friend of your mom's. The um But listen, they may not have been in this order when Murray taught them.

SPEAKER_05

Totally.

SPEAKER_03

So we don't know.

SPEAKER_05

But I feel like at this point it reads like a poem. Oh, we should do a recording where we just read it as a poem. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Maybe we'll do that at the end. Okay. You'll do it because you're great at that. Thanks. Yeah. So I'm not sure if they were meant to kind of go together, but it's like I like to put them together because it I don't know. I just find that a fun mental.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, they sort of we've sort of it landed on little couplets. Couplets. Yeah, there's like couplets and triplets within these.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and we had so much to say about it. Totally. Yeah. Sometimes they stand alone. So it's like if I look at these two, all right, you can't be different by acting the same. And then find a find a pleasant path. It's like, okay, well, you can't be different by acting the same, is about sort of like growth.

SPEAKER_04

Mm-hmm and change. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03

Right?

SPEAKER_04

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03

Um, and courage. I don't know. And then find a pleasant path is like how to do it. How to sustainably do that. Yeah, I think there's definitely sustainability and you know, and enjoyment and engagement and um you know, sort of this intention to um well to whistle while you work, you know.

SPEAKER_05

Well, let's go back to you can't be different by acting the same. The thing that I think of, when I think of you can't be different by acting the same, it reminds me of that sort of cliche definition of insanity. Which w which one? Um It's like doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

SPEAKER_03

Insanity is is uh repeating the same mistakes, expecting different results. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_05

Right? Mm-hmm. I just keep thinking about going to the fridge and opening it up and being like, oh man, I don't have anything uh to eat. And then 15 minutes later, going back to the fridge, opening it. Maybe something has appeared in there. But but no at no point. At no point in time did I go to the grocery store. There's nothing, you know, like you can't be different by acting the same. It no, it's not quite the same thing, but it it like that is totally where my mind goes.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Well, the slogan that I remember, I mean to di to bring it way to dial back the way back machine. The slogan that I remember is if nothing changes, nothing changes. Totally yeah, if nothing changes, nothing changes. And the thing that I like to think about there is something that I learned from a personal trainer.

SPEAKER_04

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03

Um, probably around 20 years ago. And um she explained to me the power of incremental small change. Yeah. So you like interrate, like on how that would create a vector, how that moved the vector on the axis. Like she she would do this thing with her hands where she would, you know, sort of create the XY axis, you know, she would axis, she would put her left hand down, and then she'd put her right hand on top of it like they were sandwiched together, and then she'd she'd just lift up her, lift up her right hand just a little bit, so it just looked like a crack, and she'd be like, see, one percent. And then she'd go one percent over. Then she'd go two percent and she'd raise it up a little more, and then she'd start going like this, and it would create this kind of like vector of change, right? She showed me how that could work, how these small moves could make such a a difference in just the amount of weight you could lift, which was kind of the goal. The goal was to you know, continue to challenge the muscles differently, because if when you don't, they don't grow, right? You have to keep challenging them. Right. You have to keep moving them in different ways, increasing the weight, increasing the wraps, etc. Totally, you know, kind of so it yeah, that whole idea of nothing changes, nothing changes, um reminds me of of this. Um you you can't you can't be different by act by acting the same.

SPEAKER_05

Right. Right. And I think I this I think is a really, really good one for particularly a lot of the people that I work with that um you know want to make a change in their life, whatever it is. Right. I mean, whether it's getting out of pain, exercising more, eating better, changing a job, I mean, all the different changes that that could happen. Um, you know, some that are really easier are like exercising more and eating better or whatever. But those are things that I mean, exercise, we have opportunities to do that, you know, even in small ways most days. Eating, we we are doing most days. Um, so there's already actions built in. But I think what happens with that is then then we also have habits, for better or worse, built into those actions. And so if I want to change the way I'm eating, I have to really change the way that I'm eating. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it's like I can't keep buying the same things from the grocery store. I gotta change my grocery list.

SPEAKER_03

You can't you can't quit sugar and keep eating sugar.

SPEAKER_05

You definitely can't work like that. You can't quit sugar and still keep sugar in the house.

SPEAKER_03

Well, that's one that's certainly one way of doing it.

SPEAKER_05

I mean, you can't be different by acting the same. So you don't want to eat cookies, don't buy the freaking cookies. But I think that from what I know about habit and habit formation, we have a lot working against us in those things. Um, and the book Atomic Habits is really good about this. I mean, sort of the classic example from that book is uh he talks about how if you want to start running, uh-huh. The the best thing to do is to put on your shoe, your running shoes every morning. He's like, do not go running for that first week or so. Just put on your shoes. Like, just do what what I call in my own practice the um minimum viable action. And I think I talked about this in the um Working with the Moon episode. So it's like do the smallest action that gets you to that thing, and that's that incremental change. Because once you integrate that in, then that is integrated in, and then you can build on top of that. So it's like you have to change how you're acting to be different.

SPEAKER_03

Well, one of the big changes that we made just last week.

SPEAKER_05

I'm like, what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_03

Well, we we changed grocery stores.

SPEAKER_05

Oh we did it one time, but I'm hoping it will be sustaining. Oh my goodness. And this is a big thing. Oh my god. This is okay. Listen, listeners, if you've been listening, you know we love our tiny little publics at the front of the neighborhood. Yeah. I mean, we're just dropping all the names here, but it doesn't matter because you know we love the tiny publics. Yeah, and I still love the tiny publics, but it has become crystal clear to me how freaking expensive the tiny publics is. And we were just talking about our finances and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, oh, you know, I have this client sing the praises of the Aldi. Yeah. And the thing with the Aldi is who wants to go there? It's a mess. You gotta bring your own bags. She's like, listen, it's also less expensive when you get delivery.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, or they or they shop it for you. Or they just go pick it up. Or we just go pick it up for $199. Makes it super.

SPEAKER_05

So that's what we did this week. We sh we did our order. Yeah. It wasn't perfect. Some of the things we wanted they didn't have, but that's okay. But man, the groceries that we got for less than a hundred bucks.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, we're still eating. Six days later, we're still eating.

SPEAKER_05

And we're like, okay, how do we and so now we've got this plan where on Saturday, because we do meal prep a lot on Sunday, so on Saturday we can do an all-de-order. And then whatever we can't get there, because some things we can't get there.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

We can pick up at the Publix. And you know, but we don't but we don't have to buy everything from the Publix.

SPEAKER_03

Right. So those are the facts. And the situation for me internally is that I have a really deep attachment to the way I experience shopping in Publix because I grew up shopping at Publix as a kid.

SPEAKER_05

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03

In Fort Lauderdale, you know, and the Publix that I grew up shopping at was very, very similar to this Publix. Like the setup was very similar. Um, it was small like this. It you know, it was one of the old um So there's nostalgia in there for you. Yeah, it just it scratches like an an itch. Yeah. It's just Familiar and sweet. I remember going to Publix with my mom and you know, it was just something that we did. Yeah. And then you know, I was raising my daughter. I took her to Publix millions of times, got the cookie, put her in the cart, or made more shopping as a pleasure. And I always knew it was more expensive. I gotta be honest, I struggle in big box stores with the amount of stimulation in a big box store like Walmart or Target. I really have a hard time in those places, personally. Like I'm I'm you know, even though I present like I'm sort of this Amazonian whatever goddess. Thank you. I'll accept. I accept. I'm I don't like all that. I don't like those bright lights. Sure. Like I I mean there's a part of me that dislikes the color of the plastic bag at Walmart. It's gray. Oh, okay. Uh-huh. I just feel like they're handing me a prison bag. It's ridiculous what happens to me. Like the amount of brand loyalty I have to Publix. It's a good thing. So it's a big deal for you to shop it off. It's absurd. I am a member of Club Publix, and I just got my half birthday gift in my email, which is that. Yeah, because it's the 16th. I'm at my half birthday as of June the 16th. I can go to Publix and I can get a bar cake, I can get a thing of ice cream, or I can get flowers for free for my half birthday the next time I check in.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, get them flowers. I know.

SPEAKER_03

We don't need no more sugar in here. Isn't that fun? Isn't that fun though? And I was thrilled.

SPEAKER_05

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03

Like other people send me an email. I'm like, delete. Of course. Unsubscribe. Unsubscribe. And their politics don't even match my. Like I know. Oh my god. And this is a good idea. Like they're an old southern company and they're they have a pretty deep shadow that I'm not a big fan of. I know. And um, but I still I know. So I've resisted, resisted, resisted, resisted. So what was it this week for you? Okay, I'll tell you what it was. I we had this family reunion that was really, really lovely over the weekend.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And and at that family reunion I w I saw some of the members of my family really getting older.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And it occurred to me that no matter how much I try, I am going to get older and I am going to need to retire. And maybe it will be better for me to spend about a third of the money on on groceries so that I could take the rest of that money and travel. Okay. That is actually you and I haven't talked about this. No, no, no. But it's actually uh something that I've been reflecting on. I I was like, you know, if I'm if I can get the same food someplace else and I could work through my resistance around that, yeah, I could take that m and I did it, it's just psychological resistance, it's nothing else. Totally. The food isn't any typical. And it's changing the pattern. We've been eating beautifully all week. I mean, and we get organic food, you know, everything was beautiful. I mean, we got all this great free-range, you know, meat and beautiful organic veg and for a third of the price, literally. Yeah. And the quality was really good. Yeah. So yeah, I I just realized I wanted I wanted I I do. I I like how didn't you be a little bit more conscious about your choices? And then simultaneously you came to me and said, Hey, listen, I heard that if you because I think we were up late talking to Viera, like, God, we need to go to Aldi, and we were all like, I don't want to go, I don't want to go. Yeah. So just making that shift.

SPEAKER_05

I on honestly, I was surprised that you were like, Let's do it, let's place an order today. I'm like, oh, okay, you want to try this out right now?

SPEAKER_03

Let's do it. It's so weird. Like, I'll make a spur-of-the-moment decision to go on a a 10-day trip with some fun faster than I would change my my grocery store.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you can't be different by acting the same. So did it. You were like, hey, listen, this is this change that I want to make. Yes. I would like to not spend the money here, but spend the money here. You know, this is the thing with money that I sort of remind myself for better or worse, is like it's finite. Yeah. So like I went through a divorce a couple years ago. I didn't know there was a time that I was like, I don't know how the finances are gonna turn out, you know, when you're splitting assets and all that, and who's gonna owe who what and what I owe money. And then I had a moment where I was like, I was like spiraling, and then I was like, Nissa, whatever the amount is, it's a finite number. You're gonna come to it and you and then you're gonna move on. And like, same thing with the construction. Like, what's this construction going to cost ultimately when it's all said and done with all the things that we want? Right. Well, whatever it is, it's a finite number. Um, and so it's the same thing with my income. It's this, you know, and so what I have to spend on groceries and travel is a finite number. So how do I want to spend that money?

SPEAKER_03

Well, and this is this thing about intentionality. I mean, you know, it's it it it it's like how do how do I want to show up with what I actually have? Yes. And um, you know, uh I mean, I don't we're not wealthy. Yeah. And so it it's it's what we have in the bank is a finite number. Right. We're not we're not rolling like Oprah here, folks. Like and subscribe to the podcast. Support the support the family, like and subscribe to the podcast is fine, you know, which are things you can do for free.

SPEAKER_05

You do not have to spend money to do that. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_03

Oh well, and then and then when he says, you know, the next thing is like, we'll take a different take a pleasant path.

SPEAKER_05

Moving on to um motto slogan saying aphorism number two this week.

SPEAKER_03

I I want to feel I I mean I might need to go back to the other one, but I do think they go together so nicely because it's like all right, well, make a change, but then do it in a way that like so many people approach going on a diet in a way that is so incredibly painful and unsustainable. Right. Right. Or cutting back their expenses, or cutting back their expenses, right? I mean the Aldi thing is a perfect experience. Totally.

SPEAKER_05

You made some amazing food this week with what we got there. And it was definitely different. Right. I feel like in publics we sort of like have our rut, but then at Aldi, it's like, oh, we could get this, we could get this. Okay, what can we do with those things?

SPEAKER_04

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03

And it has been very pleasant. I've enjoyed it actually. Yeah. It reminds me of like the the you know, when I talked in the episode about the um the client of mine who who had to go to work in the donut shop. Yes. And, you know, how actually the donut shop was pretty awesome. Totally. Totally. You know, like the actual experience of it.

SPEAKER_05

You probably got free donuts.

SPEAKER_03

Was pretty awesome. And I, you know, and and not that working in a donut shop isn't hard. I mean uh but to this point, one of the things that I I've noticed in this edition, working in this edition, something that I like to do is I like to kind of like well, you know, all psychologists are voyeurs, right? We're a little voyeuristic. Oh sublimated voyeurs. I'm basically a psychologist. Yes, yes. I do like to observe other people. Uh-huh. Um, I love to uh listen to the workers, yeah. Like laughing and talking with one another and cracking jokes, you know, listening to music and and you know. Sometimes they're speaking in English, sometimes they're speaking in Spanish. I mean, I don't think we've had we don't think we've had any other languages. So sometimes I can understand the English. If they're speaking in Spanish, I can pick up little bits.

SPEAKER_05

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03

Um, but I love to hear them like laughing with one another and joking with one another and you know, stopping and eating lunch and looking at their phones and making phone calls. I don't I don't know. It's like they're doing this really hard job that I'm so grateful that they're doing. It is really hot in Tampa Bay right now. I'm hard to tell you. The heat index has been like 103. Oh my gosh. And um, they're working outside and they're you know, we have this backyard that they can't get to with the lifting machines. They can't like run a bobcat back there.

SPEAKER_05

No, they're carrying everything back there.

SPEAKER_03

They're carrying it all back there in wheelbarrows or on their backs, literally. I mean, yeah, and um it it it's incredible. And you know, I don't know, like, is the intentionality to have fun while they're doing it? I look at them and sometimes they just look hot and miserable. Yeah, and I get that. And other times they're having fun. I mean, they're laughing, you know. That plumber was a hoot. I mean, oh the boo-boo.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, the plumber, the plumber, yeah, the plumber definitely had a uh distinct personality. Yeah, so find a find a pleasant find a pleasant path. So part of what this saying says to me is, you know, number one, find. So there's that that whole thing of like choice that you you have um autonomy in your own life journey, right? That you you have some control over. You get to find a pleasant path. But also, I think what's inherent in that with me is find what's pleasant on your path. Like, no matter who you are or what you're doing right now, like you listener, listening to this while you're doing whatever driving, cleaning, walking, laying in bed, whatever it is that you're doing, and whatever it is that's going on in your life right now, you are on some sort of path. And maybe it's one you chose, maybe it's one you didn't, maybe it's one that's more pleasant or less. But no matter what it is, there's probably something on that path that is pleasant. What is pleasant on the path that you're on right now? And if you ain't finding nothing, then you can't be different by acting the same. You gotta start doing something different, you know. If you want if you want to change that. Don't let me tell you what to do.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I mean, back to the idea of like this maybe having an unconscious unconscious narrative that there's that, you know, yes, life is life is hard. Yes, life is hard. Yes, life is hard. And life life, I mean, being well, let me say it in this way. I think being a human is a Ram Dash used to say this. It's a difficult curriculum. Oh, that's a Ram Dash. That's the truth. That's the truth. He would say it's a difficult curriculum. It is.

SPEAKER_05

Um, you know. I find it I I you know what I just keep saying these days? Life is weird. Yeah. I find that phrase coming out of my mouth so often in so many contexts. Life is weird.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and it also works out. So last night Yeah, you gotta tell them about that. Yeah, last night we watched um I think.

SPEAKER_05

It's called the Geo uh Rain Wilson and the Geography of Bliss. And it was on, I think, Peacock. Yeah. And I had never heard of it. I don't know, it just popped up, and I guess it's based on this other book that somebody else wrote called The Geography of Bliss. I saw that in the credits. Oh, okay. So there's a book called The Geography of Bliss, and it's kind of like the blue zones for happiness, uh-huh. Although the second episode he went to a very unhappy place to contrast it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the first episode he was in Iceland, which is like one of the world's happiest places.

SPEAKER_03

Consistently ranks as one of the world's happiest places. And they have a motto. Uh-huh. And they basically say no matter what happens, it will work out. Yeah. And they say it like that. They say it'll work it'll work out. It'll work out. It'll work out. It's not like it'll work out. And it's also not like it'll work. Yeah, it's not like toxic positivity.

SPEAKER_01

It's not American.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. You know, it's gonna be like we're always a winner no matter what. Right. It's just like, no, it'll work out. Like, even if you don't like the result, yeah. Is what's implied in that motto. Yeah. If you like the result, if you don't like the result, it'll work out.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And um, you know, and one of the things that I say to people all the time is these things have a way of working out.

SPEAKER_05

I've definitely heard you say that.

SPEAKER_03

And I that is a Kellyism, and I say it with regularity to to folks because I have found that it's true that these things have a way of working out. Yeah. You know, even though being I mean being a human is hard, and that's one of the things I and I remember one of the interviews uh from an Iceland uh what is an Icelander? An Icelandic an Icelandic person. And I mean, wow, the extreme temperatures and and weather there and how dark it is during the winter and um how they have to rely on one another. And you know, and that this tends to make them more like what they want to get along with the other thing.

SPEAKER_05

But colder places, I guess there's a pattern on our globe that colder places tend to have happier people. And um he said, Rain Wilson said something along the lines of I call that uh we have uh we have to get along to survive. We have to get get along or die, I think is maybe how he phrased it. Well, I think about the Tibetans, it's a very similar, I mean, you know, in Tibetans, well, and I recently was reading this other book that talked about that with the um indigenous people of the Canadian wilderness. Yes, right. Well, that they would not always talk they really would keep to themselves with their feelings. It was like this psychology um memoir called Um Good Morning Monster, just in case you want to look it up. Um and yeah, that they would it was hard for the psychologist to get her client who was a indigenous Canadian um person to really open up because that was not part of his culture because they just didn't talk about the things they were feeling because it they had to live together. Yeah. And so it wasn't that it was wrong. No, you know, Western psychology finds that to be wrong, but she was really being like, all right, well, let me understand the context of your culture. Oh, okay, that's really difficult because that's how you guys survive.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah, well, there's that thing in Japanese marriages too, where they don't they don't talk a lot about the comp what the what the conflicts are. But they will sit in silence with one another and let interest. Let things kind of breathe. I mean, in a different way. I mean, yeah, I I think that um there's ups and downs to to both of them. What was it that they said about that the uh people I people in Iceland also take the most antidepressants per capita?

SPEAKER_05

They also are the leading consumers of antidepressants. Right. The happy one of the happiest countries they're all on antidepressants. Yeah. I mean, that's an over-exaggeration.

SPEAKER_03

The highest per capita rate of people taking antidepressants.

SPEAKER_05

But apparently they also have the highest per capita rate of people making up per capita statistics.

SPEAKER_03

They have the highest per capita rate of authors. They do? Yeah, that was one of the other things. Oh, right, writers. One in the writers and artists. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Well, one in it's like one in ten one in ten people in Iceland will publish a book. Will publish a book. We need to move to Iceland. I'm up for it. Actually, Reykjavik seems pretty cool. I could totally I mean there's also elves there, which I'm Well, this is okay.

SPEAKER_03

So this the Find Pleasant Path thing, I love this. That they believed in elves.

SPEAKER_05

So I had mentioned this to Kelly because I thought everybody knew that there were elves in Iceland. I mean, that's sort of been common knowledge for me in my own esoteric studies for years. She had no idea. No. And I don't know if you thought I was making it up or what, but I loved in this show they brought up the freaking elves. And you know, this goes back, this harkens back to another Murrayism, which is when in doubt, choose the belief that is more useful to you. It is I like the idea that there's elves. I will choose that belief.

SPEAKER_03

But what kind of elf do you like? Do you like like a little mischievous elf, or do you like like the Lord of the Rings elves?

SPEAKER_05

Well, I want the one that's gonna save me from falling into the ravine like you did the woman's grandfather. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I mean, I think they also believe in trolls. Like they will not they will not pave roads in certain places because it goes through known elf territory.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05

I mean, yeah, why not? And I mean, I just love the idea that there are little fairy garden creatures um out there helping me out and being like, hey, come on, you need to you need to cut this plant back or whatever.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I mean, I just think there have to be things that I cannot see. Yeah. Because I can't, I just have human eyes. I can only see the things that humans are designed to see. Totally. I don't, I don't, you know. There might be an elf sitting right next to me. There probably is. It's like Pokemon Go. You know, when Pokemon Go happen to people like, there's Pokemons everywhere. Well, there's probably all kinds of things everywhere.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, apparently there was a Pokemon training center at my old healing center.

SPEAKER_03

Well, a client told me once.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. And that's why people would go sit in the the post office uh parking lot. Oh my gosh. Well, all right. So our two sayings this week is you can't be different by acting the same. Yes. And find a pleasant path. You know, I want find a pleasant path like on a greeting card or something. It's really sweet.

SPEAKER_03

It's really, really good.

SPEAKER_05

Is there anything else on those that um Yeah, I like it.

SPEAKER_03

It's very Buddhist, you know, like the middle path. It's like, okay, go ahead and change, but and make it pleasant. I like it that it's like um pleasant is it's a good word. He chose some really good words. Yeah. Yeah. You know, he chose some really good words. He didn't say choose an awesome path. I love when people are like, have an awesome day. Why why?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. How much is or exciting? How much is how much is pleasant? Yeah, pleasant. Pleasant. That's good. Yeah. It's the middle way. Totally. You know, but it's it's just on the side of this is gonna feel good. Yeah. Yeah. You know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I I just do keep going back to those little dwarves whistling while they worked. You know?

SPEAKER_04

I saw how you worked. Totally.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, there's something about it that that's uh stuck in my head today. Maybe we need to watch Snow White.

SPEAKER_05

Maybe. Maybe. Well, listener, I uh hope that you can apply especially this um find a pleasant path to your day today. And as always, if you have enjoyed listening to this, maybe you'll share it with someone else that might also like it. You can send them a link and a text message or write them an email and say, Hey, there's this amazing podcast, and I think you would love it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And um And what's that one small thing? You know, what's one small thing you could do a little bit differently to um to make your path a little more pleasant?

SPEAKER_05

Ooh, that combines them. Yeah, yeah. What's wall what's one small thing that you can do different to make your path a little bit more pleasant?

SPEAKER_01

And those things are, you know, we do have some control.

SPEAKER_05

I mean, it's like we do have some there are many things we don't have control over, but things we do. There are some things you do. So we do have control over. Hold tightly to those and let go of the rest.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, double down on what you can what you can actually do. And if you get the courage to switch your grocery store. Yeah. Nothing against the pubs. No. Yeah. A pub sub. I know. Dang. I know those bogos.

SPEAKER_05

Oh man. Oh no. Yeah. Well, no shade. It it's okay to shop somewhere different. And if you do, do it together.