How This Influencer's Mom Set Her Up for Success with Open Dialogue and Friendship

On this episode of Between Mothers and Daughters, we are joined by Clarke and Felicia Peoples. Clarke is an internet personality and influencer, and Felicia is a teacher and author. We learn about the motherhood tools and conversations that Felicia had with Clarke to help shape her into the woman that she is today. We also learn more about how Clarke sees her relationship with her mom, and how that's influenced why she may want to be childfree. This conversation is full of funny mother-daughter moments and memorable gems. 

Find The Parenting Playbook by Felicia Peoples here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DRFMK6F5?lv=shuf&hvlocphy=9010930&hvnetw=g&hvadid=813007538777&language=en_US&hydadcr=9581_13966186_2505249&hvdev=c&hvocijid=6382934142723812781--&hvqmt=a&hvexpln=0&hvtargid=kwl-2484167636399&adgrpid=195855869685&hvrand=6382934142723812781&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback

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Find Patti on IG, TikTok, and YouTube: @‬TaskYouself
Find Kamaria on IG, TikTok, and YouTube: ‪@KamariaLeyla
Find Clarke on IG: ‪@clarkepeoples
Find Clarke on TikTok: @claaaarke
Find Clarke on Substack: @whitecouchera
Find Felicia on IG: @fgpeoples
Find Felicia on TikTok:‬ @feliciapeoples
Find Felicia on Substack: @feliciapeoples

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi and welcome back to Between Mothers and Daughters. Because if you can't tell your mother, then who can you tell? You guys already know we're here on YouTube. We're also streaming on Apple Music, Spotify, and Amazon.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Today we are joined with another mother-daughter duo. Felicia and Clark. Please introduce yourselves.

SPEAKER_03 0:16

Hi guys, my name is Clark Peoples, and I'm a content creator living in New York City.

SPEAKER_04 0:21

Hi, and I'm Felicia Peoples. I am a teacher and an author, and I live in Atlanta, Georgia.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Welcome.

SPEAKER_04 0:28

Thank you, guys.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

How's it feel to be in New York? I know you said you live in Atlanta. It's crazy energy right now, y'all. The Knicks won last night.

SPEAKER_04 0:35

Yeah, I love New York, but yesterday did take it up a notch. I think we could just hear fireworks outside the window, so it's great. I love New York though.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

You've been jet setting, Clark.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

I have, so I'm happy to be back here because I feel like I can finally be stable and stationary for a second. But yeah, it's it's been a long run of travel.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Mm-hmm. You have got to be exhausted. That makes me exhausted with my little bitty travels.

SPEAKER_03 0:57

No, I'm so I was telling her earlier, if I never traveled again for the rest of my life, I would be set. I think I've seen the places, I've done all the unpacking and the repacking, and I'm ready to just be just get back into routine. It's so difficult, like always traveling with diet and exercise and catching up with people. Like it's it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

You like a routine.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

I would like to think that I like a routine. When I'm home and I'm in one place for a few weeks, like I can get into a good routine, and that feels good to me. But when I'm away, I'm like, oh, I could probably do this forever, and then I'll just start like gaining weight, or I'm like, gosh, I'm kind of tired, and then I'm like, no, I need a routine again.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Yeah. And you are on summer break.

SPEAKER_04 1:39

I am.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

How's it feel to have your schedule not have to be school every day?

SPEAKER_04 1:42

Amazing. Because I really hate being scheduled, actually.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:45

I mean, I'm very scheduled. I do have a routine during the school year, but I really do hate it. Like the having to get up at a certain time, get to work at a certain time. And the thing about being a teacher, you can't even go to the restroom when you want to. You have to go between classes. So it's like my whole life is a schedule. So in the summertime, I just lay back and do absolutely nothing.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

What grade do you teach?

SPEAKER_04 2:04

I teach ninth grade. Next year I'll have ninth and tenth, and I teach English. Okay, so yes. I know. It's super, super difficult now with kids only texting, so they write essays the same way they write a text message. Right. So yeah, that can be.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

You know, my mother was a teacher, an English teacher as well. And even back then, when people were semi-raising, not excuse me, I don't know that everyone's not raising their children. Maybe some people are. But it was a challenge because people don't raise their children or raise their children very differently. And so she spent a majority, a good majority of her time quasi-parenting versus teaching.

SPEAKER_04 2:43

Yep. So do I. Still the same.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

And then you live in a digital age and teach in a digital age.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Yes. I know. It's like even now your old students will like call you all the time, or even when you taught, she taught my oldest brother however many years ago. He's 33 now, and like all of his friends call you mom, and the other students at the school call you mom. I feel like he's a good idea. I am that teacher.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

That's wonderful. Because everyone needs that teacher.

SPEAKER_04 3:07

Yes, I am that nurturing teacher. If someone wants something to eat, they're definitely gonna come to my room. Do you have any snacks? Oh, can you cash app me? Wait, one of my old students asked me, could I cash app her? She's at Georgia Tech now. And she was like, Can I cash app? No, she said Apple Pay. I'm like, girl, I do not know how to apple pay. Oh my gosh. But I'm sure you figured it out. I did.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

Kids are so casual about asking for money now. I love that for them.

SPEAKER_04 3:28

She didn't even like $30. I'm like, right. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Yeah, so we all have Atlanta in common.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

Yes. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

So, but you're not from Atlanta. You guys aren't from Atlanta. Where are you originally from?

SPEAKER_03 3:39

So I'm I was born in DC, raised in Maryland until I was 11, I think. And then we moved to Atlanta, and I went to New York from Atlanta to start college. So I always say I'm from Atlanta, but then when someone has like a Maryland connection, I'm like, oh actually, PG County. I lied.

SPEAKER_04 3:55

If you know, you know. And I'm from North Carolina originally. Newburn, North Carolina. And um, I moved from North Carolina right after college to Maryland to teach in PG County. And I think I lived there for like 20 years before I moved to Atlanta. So I kind of feel like I'm from Maryland and North Carolina because I really lived in North Car Maryland longer than I lived in North Carolina. So then I moved to Georgia in twenty 2011. So and I love Atlanta.

SPEAKER_03 4:21

It will be so, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

I'm approaching that point with DC where I'm almost like have lived in DC for like half of my life now.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

And you said I love Atlanta. I lived in Atlanta for 30 years. And now when I go back, it's so different. It is.

SPEAKER_04 4:36

It is so different.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Because there was old Atlanta. I'm from Old Atlanta.

SPEAKER_04 4:40

So do you like old Atlanta better than New Atlanta?

SPEAKER_01 4:42

I do.

SPEAKER_04 4:42

And I don't know the difference. I don't know Old Atlanta from New Atlanta.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

So before Tyler Perry studios came, before everyone was in a 30-inch bus down, before it was it was a very different scene. You know, there were things. It was the time of Jermaine Dupree, Outcast, Goody Mob, that sort of thing, right? But when Tyler Perry became when when Tyler Perry came, it became Little Hollywood. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:03

I can see that. I even feel like though Atlanta now is different from Atlanta when I lived there and or when I moved in what 2019?

SPEAKER_04 5:11

When you moved from Atlanta together. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:13

What year do we because we moved in 2012, so now it's been almost 15 years. And I think it's so different. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

But do you ever want to live there again?

SPEAKER_03 5:23

No.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

No.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

And I think because I could see if I wanted to have kids, I could see myself raising a family in like 20 like 10, 2012, Atlanta, I think. Now, after the pandemic, a lot of cities are just so different. But I think Atlanta, especially, whenever I go back, I'm like, I'm just here to see you, girl. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:42

Never go anywhere when she's in Atlanta. I'm like, okay, I want to check this place out, and I'm I don't really go out that much. Um when my friends from DC don't come down, or when she doesn't come in, she doesn't want to go anywhere when she comes to Atlanta. She just stays in pajamas. She doesn't want to go anywhere. Plays with the kids. She doesn't want to go anywhere anywhere, though. That's true. That's true.

SPEAKER_03 5:58

Chicago or the body. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Yeah, same. So, Chicago, do you like Chicago? You didn't know anything about Chicago. You went, saw the house, fell in love with the house, and decided I'm gonna buy this house and live here. And my mom is from Chicago. From Chicago.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

Oh, I love Chicago. We love Chicago.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

Like, I can't say that any, you know, especially right now, post Nick's win. I cannot say it's New York City is the only city in the world. That's right. If there were another city in the world, it would be Chicago. It would be Chicago. Love Chicago.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

You could handle the winter.

SPEAKER_03 6:32

So I actually love the winter there because I kind of lock in. Like that's when I really get to see routines. Yeah. And so I work out in my house. Like I cook all the time. I love to have a big kitchen there. Like you just get so much more space. So the cold really doesn't bother me as much because again, I don't leave the house at home.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

And the house is gorgeous. Yeah. House is gorgeous. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 6:53

It's so nice.

SPEAKER_04 6:54

But that Chicago cold is crazy. I'm serious.

SPEAKER_03 6:58

Last winter, I think it was worse in New York, honestly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

No, it is the hawk. I thought I was going to have to get my nose amputated. That was the coldest I've ever felt when I was in Chicago for New Year's Eve one year. Oh my God.

SPEAKER_04 7:07

Really? Yeah. It's next week. But I love it so. And the summer in Chicago is unmatched, okay? Unmatched. I'm going next weekend.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

Yeah, and we're gonna be there Juneteenth weekend. Everybody needs to be a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Oh, how funny now I'm gonna be here. It's gonna be a blast.

SPEAKER_03 7:20

It's gonna be a blast too. Brooklyn TV, yes.

SPEAKER_04 7:23

I've never been in the Chicago water. Yes. Really?

SPEAKER_00 7:26

I've been on the water in Chicago, so I'm excited. Yeah, I've never been on a boat in Chicago. So I'm like so excited. I'm like, oh, this is the Chiami I was told about.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

So when I moved to New York, I said there's no better city than Chicago, and I thought I'll never love anywhere like I love Chicago. No, I do love New York. But Chicago, I don't know who's first or second. I'm just right.

SPEAKER_03 7:47

No, I know. They're I mean, both such incredible cities for the reasons they're incredible and they're distinct in a lot of ways and very similar in some ways, but just honestly perfect places.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

No, they are moving from Atlanta to New York, was there any culture shock or were you did did it feel like a natural transition?

SPEAKER_03 8:04

I think well, so when I moved, I had actually just had both of my femurs surgically broken, which was crazy. So I started college, had a congenital bone disorder. Then we yeah, had it surgically corrected. And so I think like maybe a week before I moved on campus is when I started like walking unassisted and whatever. So that was more of a shock, I think, than anything getting around the subway, like slightly immobile, and like having to go back home for stuff. But otherwise, I feel like New York, it was more of the college adjustment that felt more like a big culture shock to me. Um, but New York City, honestly, like I think I loved it the second I got here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

And you getting into Columbia was just I remember like you know, the video. Felicia, did that feel like a culmination of all the years you poured into her?

SPEAKER_04 8:50

It definitely did because she has been so academic and student-centered and focused and in all the activities, and she, you know, she really had a plan mapped out for all the things that she needed to do, even outside of having a high GPA to get into an Ivy League school. So, I mean, she knew she needed to be in some organizations and play a sport. I mean, she's had it all planned out. She really raised herself, okay? She would tell me what she's doing. I'm like, okay, you're doing, oh, okay. So definitely, yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Now, where does she fall in your tier of children?

SPEAKER_04 9:21

She's my the youngest, so. Okay. Youngest and favorite.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

And only girl, right? And only girl, yes. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Oh, I guess I didn't realize you were the only girl, but okay.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

That's one of the favorite because we're best friends. We've just been we've been girlfriends forever. You know that I've been out with her like at the harbor. I would go out to Rosa Mexicano with her and her girlfriends at like, how old would I have been? Like seven or eight years old. They're sitting there having drinks, and I'm like, she said what in front of us. We have been girls like seriously forever. This is true.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

I love that. Yeah. You know what? And that's because so many mothers take the approach of, now we are not friends. You are my daughter. Yeah. But you openly say that Clark is your friend.

SPEAKER_04 10:06

Yeah, I do. And I and I do know the, you know, I'm not one of your little friends things. And I I understand that for the for a certain purpose because you want to make sure that they understand that, okay, I'm the authority figure here and you need to respect me. But on the other hand, if you also want, and I think most parents, do you also want your children to feel um like you're accessible and like they want to share things with you that are maybe a little personal that you might not want your mom or your dad to know, then you do have to have some foundation of friendship of some some type, you know, and you don't have to call it that. Yeah. Um, because if not, then you'll just you'll be the mom, they'll listen to you, but that thing that you thought they should have told you so you could have felt it, they're not telling you. Because why would they? Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

You have to take a different approach with all three of your children.

SPEAKER_04 10:52

I feel like for the most part, I I raised them all the same, except for I did make sure I did understand that you know they're each different. So there's a different way that I have to connect with each of them. So for my older son, he was really into music, so I connected with him on music. And then my others, my middle son, he was always into like tech, and um, before video gaming became and streaming became a thing, he was doing that, so I would like connect with him on that. And then she had you had a multitude of interests that you went from one thing to the other. So whatever it was, rabbits, reborn babies.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

But yeah, you always just make sure I think to pour into the things that we were interested in. And I feel like when you see your parent like really see you, if that makes sense, it makes you feel more connected to that.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

For sure. And so we do prep calls, and so in one of our prep calls, I said, tell me a time where you did not get along, or you had a a a tift. Because you know, sometimes it's it's hard you said parents seeing you, because like sometimes I think Kamari thinks struggles to believe that I see her. Yeah, you know, but so tift.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

Um so this is the one the one in college? Yeah. Oh Lord.

SPEAKER_04 12:04

Okay, so we're smooth sailing for the most part, for the most part, throughout high school. But when she first got to college, first of all, I'm nervous because you're you're away from home. Second of all, my other say he went to KSU, which is right down the street, and she's all the way in New York. So that was the other thing, this distance. And then she didn't really do any dating in high school. So she gets to college, and of course she's dating, and that's fine because she could have dated in high school too, but she didn't. And so she was, what was it, like online dating, which to me bumble. And I'm like thinking, oh, you that's where you meet serial killers. Okay, I got you. Exactly. So um, because I know nothing about it at this time, and so she's saying that she met some guy, and then I don't know what it was about saying that the guy lived in Brooklyn that just threw me into a tizzy because I just I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

That's a big criminal, right?

SPEAKER_04 12:52

And it's only because I'm from North Carolina, and the only uh time I had been to Brooklyn, I think in the 70s, and my aunt lived in Bedston. I'm telling you, I thought I was gonna die in the minute that I was there. Oh my god. And so I just imagine my poor sweet child all the way from running around.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

So mind you, the date wasn't even in Brooklyn. The date was in like Fidee or something. Like we're in the financial display. Seriously.

SPEAKER_04 13:18

So we so and you can tell why you got so upset with me because I really did take it up ten notches.

SPEAKER_03 13:24

Well, I think it was just one, I was not used, it felt like maybe you didn't trust me, which I was not used to that ever. Like I never had a curfew. If I went to parties, like I would tell her, Oh man, girl, you wouldn't believe the stuff they were doing at this party and whatever. Like I was always very open with you. And so I felt like me telling you this and then you making it into like such a big deal. You also she told my stepdad, which was like he calls me. He had a friend with him when he called me, and they it just felt like very embarrassing, a little bit embarrassing and weird. I'm like, why are you even on my phone like your business? Yeah, and so then I was like, Felicia told you that. Oh no. So it was just a whole thing. Yeah, and so we just we didn't speak for maybe a week and a half or two weeks, really, which is we don't go three hours without talking ever. And so I just had to, we had to have the conversation. Like, I really want to tell you things, and I want your guidance and your wisdom, especially at this time in my life, like in high school. I mean, uh all I'm doing is going to school, whatever. Now I'm navigating adulthood in a new city and you know with new people. And if you come to me like this, when I share things with you, I'm not gonna share things with you. And so then I'm just gonna hide stuff, and I'm not gonna be able to benefit from your wisdom. And I think we both agree that like you want me to have you in my life for those formative experiences.

SPEAKER_04 14:42

Yes, and so when I wrote my book, that is one of the things I talked about. You really do have to that chapter is know when to hold them and when to fold them. And you really do have to know when to draw back because the only thing that you're going to gain by trying to still and I don't want to say control your kids in like the manipulative, like I don't want you to make any decisions for yourself, but even just being you're overstepping your boundaries when you do even simple things sometimes when a person is an adult. I can't tell you not to go out with somebody, okay?

SPEAKER_00 15:13

I think that's the thing if you're 18. It's the adult part that makes it different. The mother-daughter relationship had to go through that transition of like traditional parenting when you're underage to adult.

SPEAKER_04 15:24

But the thing is that what I think that every parent will agree with is that kids don't know when you're 18, you know one teaspoonful more than you knew at 17. Right. And when you graduate from high school the next day, you might as well still be in high school. You still don't know anything. And so that's where I was coming from. And she wasn't even trying to make the age thing a different, a big deal. The thing is, it's not even the age, it's when your kid goes off to college, they're not in your house anymore. So stop, you can't have that control. So what I had to learn is okay, let me trade control for access because I am not going to be able to tell her anything to do. Because I could tell her, you shouldn't go out with this guy. And guess what? She's gonna go out with the guy if she wants to. The only difference would be she's not gonna tell me. Correct. So I'm like, let me just step it all the way up.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

We had to have a similar conversation because my freshman year at Howard, I was working, I was having internships and stuff. I think it was like, like, I can't remember what I was doing, but I was working and I think my phone died. I just continued my evening, and I was like, I'll go back to my dorm. I got back to the dorm, my RA was out front, like my whole hall was like telling people what I had on. I was like, um, what's going on? They're like, your mom has been looking for you for four hours. We're all searching. I'm like, I'm listening, literally right here.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

She was one step away from the police, from the DC police, because I'd already called Howard Security, and they were like, Well, ma'am, because it's been less than I was like, you know what? Like four times. Right, literally.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Phone just says, I'm coming in with like groceries, and like, I'm like, hey.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

What's up?

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:58

It's scary though. It is scary. It is, it's just a thing of I think fleeing the nest and going away with not even someone to see it. It's like when your kids are no longer in your house. I can understand how that would feel very threatening or like scary in a way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

But okay, and also patterns, because last night Ariel texted and said my plane, my flight was canceled. She texted in a group to me and Kamaria. Kamaria never responded. I didn't hear I didn't hear hiding her hair from her. So this morning at six something, I called and said hello. She hung up, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:29

Oh, no, I called Ariel. I didn't respond in our group chat. I called Ariel.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

So then I said, Well, did Kamaria make it to New York? Is she safe in the streets of New York?

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Mind you, she has my location. I've taught her how to think about that.

unknown 17:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Okay, but anyway, but you introduced something a second ago. You said, Book, can we see this book? Oh, sure.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

All right.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

Yeah, introduce the book to us.

SPEAKER_04 17:51

So it is the parenting playbook, Winning Strategies for Successful Parenting. And it really just came from my desire to share with parents some of the things that I learned in my raising of my children, and not how to raise perfect children, because I'm not saying that I did that. How to build a relationship. It's really about building a relationship with your children that you want to have that's gonna be that's gonna last from um childhood to adulthood, and not ruining that because you're trying to make sure that you're raising good people, successful people, you know, protective people, that type of thing. So it's really about the relationship.

SPEAKER_03 18:26

I think one thing that's really unique too about your perspective is obviously you've raised me and Trey and Sterling, but being the teacher to like thousands of students over my mother's identity. You've yeah, one parent to them, but also like seen their dynamics with their parents and like how that's made them feel. Because you will tell me all the time like you know, this child like came to me with this, or you know, like they have this thing that's happening at home, and like how you kind of supplement their parenting there, like I, you know, I just think yeah, you've heard from so many kids about the things that impact them as they transition into adulthood.

SPEAKER_04 19:00

So that's true. So, and and one of the things that kind of struck me in that is that there are so many kids that feel like they can't tell their parents things, yeah. And I think they can, but their parents have made them feel like they can't, you know. And I feel like as a parent, I think that most parents would want you to tell them certain things, and what we don't realize is that you've actually built this environment in your home where your children don't feel comfortable coming to you to tell you things, and it's unintentional, but we've still done it, you know. And so that was pretty much what I wanted to do, is just put some, it's like it's called a playbook because it's 15 plays, things that you should do, strategies to make sure that you're like um dealing with some of those big things that I think can be an obstruction to creating a good relationship with your children that is like last beyond childhood. Because sometimes you have a great relationship with your children when they're in the home. And what you don't know though is when they get older, they will not be coming back to you to talk about anything. I'm not saying they don't like you, they love you. You know, the obligatory love and respect that we have for our parents. We're grateful for all the things they've done. But then when they get older, I know some friends who are they like, oh my, you know, kids don't really call me like that. Where can I purchase this?

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Because I feel like I still need this book to do that. It's on Amazon. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 20:12

Yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Yeah, I feel really fortunate that, like, and it seems like you guys do too, like us, we have an easy flow of communication.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

And even when we don't, because like on our from our last podcast, some of the comments were like, I feel tension between the mother and daughter, and you know, they they critiqued how we, you know, interact with one another. And we have a perfectly imperfect relationship. So if you're coming to this podcast looking for us to be perfect with one another, you've come to the wrong podcast, right? Because what we have is a growing, moving, changing, loving, committed mother-daughter relationship. It has different dynamics to it, right? Yeah, and so you know, like they're like, I feel, you know, and and they were psychoanalyzing, and I'm like, you know what? And some of those things may be true, and thank you for the feedback, and I'll look into that and that sort of thing, and not being defensive about it, but just being like, this is life.

SPEAKER_04 21:05

That's what makes the podcast um really good, though. That's why I love it, because it's it's authentic the authenticity. I can tell. Yeah, you're talking and you'll she'll say something, you'll be like, I remember.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Like I love that. And in my mind, I'm like, girl, if you saw us without the cameras on.

SPEAKER_04 21:20

I really love that. And so I'm like, oh, okay, yeah. So I think that's what makes it good.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

Or if you were Ariel, who is always um, she's like Switzerland, she's always neutral. She's just like, I see both sides. Do you guys get psychoanalyzed online when you're Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_03 21:33

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Oh, good. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 21:36

There are people who think I hate her.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Really? No way.

SPEAKER_03 21:39

That and that's when I'm like, okay, now, come on, y'all. Like, seriously, but people will really be like, Clark is so rude to her mother and she's so disrespectful and she hates her mom, and I can't, and I'm like, I don't think. This would be because like we were on a live or something, and maybe she said something, and I like kind of interrupted her, said, Oh, yeah, but wait, tell them about how this is they're like, why? You interrupt her?

SPEAKER_04 22:00

Like, I can't believe we have a formal relationship like that. We have a very informal relationship and stuff. Correct. But that's the same with all of my kids. So, like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

But I can see a lot of how you guys talk similarities between us. Like, it's it's easy. And it's crazy because you were saying, like, some kids don't talk to their parents or like they feel good in the house. But I feel like even at my big age, a lot of my friends don't have as much openness as we have between their parents. And I'm like, You're grown, what's what's the hype? I know. And they're like, it's just like I don't want to.

SPEAKER_04 22:28

It had to come from it, had to be something that you made. It does, it's does in childhood.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

So I don't think I ever used the terminology friend. I think I told her I was her protector. I was her, I told her, I'm your everything.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

And if you want anything in this right life to go right, you have to share with me. And if anything goes wrong, you really have to share with me. Like, do not, if someone tells you, don't tell your mom, that's the first thing you tell me.

SPEAKER_03 22:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Like, just I am here for you. I don't care what it is. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and and the when that man said, love me like you love kamaria, and I was like, like I love Kamaria.

unknown 23:04

Huh?

SPEAKER_01 23:05

That's that's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

That's a tall order.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

So you're single. You guys are both single?

SPEAKER_03 23:12

Both single. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

Okay. And so how is that? Do you like being single? Oh, I love it. Yeah. It's the best. I'm like, oh.

SPEAKER_04 23:20

I think if um, I think that women my age think that you'll feel I think they feel like it'll be something that lonely or something, I think maybe. Because I know that there are people there in like relationships, they're not really.

SPEAKER_03 23:33

Really? Okay.

SPEAKER_04 23:35

Wow. Which is crazy because when I was younger, I'm like, Who thought about lonely?

SPEAKER_03 23:38

I know people my age say that all the time when I'm like, oh, I'm in my white couch here. I love being sick. They're like, well, how do you get through the loneliness? And I'm like, I have never experienced loneliness a day in my life. Literally. Like, if I'm alone on a Friday night with some takeout and a movie in my apartment, like Clark, the honest part about it is if you didn't want to be lonely, it's one text away.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Some people don't have that. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 24:00

Well, true. Sometimes though, because I feel like it's like, especially now that I've been so busy with work. And I also think it's much harder for me to date now because of the position that I'm in. So I don't find a lot of guys that I think are like either up to my standards or like, especially when trying to date my age, we're definitely like income brackets are far off, and maybe education, whatever. So like there are a lot of my phone is dry 96% of the time. But I always think about how like if let's say I got married at 30 or 35 or 40 even had kids later, that would be my life for the rest of my life. It's like this moment, this time where I can just be on my couch in like waistband, pop open, like take out, you know, I'll just order whatever I want to have, dessert, whatever, watch a movie, and just pass that on my couch with a lot of time. It's this is the only time I have it. Yeah. And so I never see any part of that as like, oh, well, I'm missing something. Well, I need because I know that one day that will probably happen. And when it does, I'm gonna reflect on this time and be so happy that I like it. That you have this time. Yeah, because you didn't have this time. I did not. I'm actually having it now. Yeah, you're just starting it.

SPEAKER_04 25:09

I didn't have it. I mean, as soon as I got out of college, I got pregnant with my oldest son, and so then that was it. Because once you have children, I mean, even once your children leave, I mean, you're still parenting in a way, but like once you have them, I'm like, that was it. I did not get any girls' vacations that were free of. But I did take one, it's like I'm still gonna call back and check on the kids type of thing. So um, I'm feeling very free right now and just very um into me, you know, just connecting with the things that I like. Because I mean, you could have probably asked me five years ago what did I really like. I don't know, because what I liked was so connected with what I did with my kids and did for them. And but now I'm like I'm connecting to that and I can like how I'm here now. And I think earlier you asked me like maybe how long I was gonna be here. I have no idea. I don't have a return to it. I don't know when I'm coming home. Right. Yeah, isn't that wonderful? You can't do that if you're in a relationship.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

Yeah, you'd be like, oh, well, I have to tell him that I'm gonna, you know, or like, oh, well, I've been gone for a while, oh, it's his birthday, and I'm like, he wasn't for anything, it's just being considerate.

SPEAKER_04 26:06

You know, you don't just pop off and leave and say, hey, I'll be back. I don't know when I'll be back. But you know, it's I don't want to be considerate of anyone. You know why?

SPEAKER_01 26:13

That's how wonderful for you to say two things. My whole life. Right. I don't want to be considerate. And you say it, I've never been lonely a day in my life. When Kamaria was going to college, everyone was like, Oh, that's so sad you're gonna be lonely. I'm like, me lonely? Why would I be lonely? Well, exactly. They're like, because you're your best friend, Kamaria's leaving. That's she's your everything. I'm like, she's going to DC. Like we have planes, I can go see. I don't know lonely. And and that people feel like that's a strange thing to say, so I was excited to hear you say it. Yeah. And then you started with led with women feel like you're going to be lonely. Like, no, this is very, this is a very freeing time for me. I do still have a child on the face of the earth, so there is that thing in the back always, you know.

SPEAKER_04 26:50

That never leaves.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

But like Selena said, she this is her first time living alone. She's 55.

SPEAKER_03 26:56

Yeah. Yeah, and I think that's true. Yeah, it's it's really something I was gonna say earlier, too, about like now that you're single and we can travel and do all the things together. There's so many experiences that I want you to have that like I get to do, like going on these trips all over the place. So, like, come stay with me in Chicago and let's go on these boats, let's do this, whatever. And it's beautiful that we're both in like a similar season of life, but so obviously different, and we get to like share in these experiences together. You're not really dated, but like if I go out with someone, I'm like, Well, what do you think about this? It's just fun. We're like two single, like I love me friends. Yeah. Clark was like, No, we're girlfriends.

SPEAKER_04 27:37

That's fine. We're girlfriends. Yes, so yeah, I'm enjoying it immensely. So you said you after college you had your first son, and that's what brought you to is that when you well, after college, I came to PG County because I got a job. Okay, while I was still in college teaching in Prince George's Prince George's County schools, and so and that's where I met their dad. And I'm yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

And your dad is the reason you were kind of in the advocacy and wrote your le letter um for Columbia. What is it called? Your admission letter.

SPEAKER_03 28:05

Yeah, so um my dad went to prison when I was four and he was incarcerated for nine years. So when I was 13, he got out, and during that time, I feel like I mean, one, also you having gone to law school. I feel like whenever we would watch TV shows, it was always like monitor SVU or some kind of crime-related show. But I think also just having that experience and also like meeting one of my best friends that I met when I first moved to Atlanta. He also had an incarcerated parent at one point, and that was like the first time that I ever talked to anyone about like another student or a friend, and I was like, wait, so this is not just me, and I kind of write about that in my admissions um essay. It was just like kind of letting go of that shame and kind of using it as something like it's a very unique experience in some ways, but also in other ways, there's so many people who go through it and just don't talk about it. And so, yeah, that's been a huge part of like it was never your shame to carry. Right, exactly. Um, and so yeah, when I got to Columbia doing like criminal justice fellowships and really connecting with that community was something that was really important to me. Um yeah, it all kind of started there.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

But you did grow up with a father figure.

SPEAKER_03 29:12

Yeah, so my stepdad Miguel, that you met, how old was I when you met him? Or like what year was it? And then I can tell you. So I was nine. Oh my goodness. Yeah, I was nine. But how old are you though when like cupcakes to my school?

SPEAKER_04 29:27

Oh, you went in four.

SPEAKER_03 29:30

Before we moved to Atlanta, I moved grade in Atlanta. So then I guess I would have been fourth grade, which is how old?

SPEAKER_04 29:36

I don't know, nine, eight, something around that.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

But basically, like he did the father-daughter dances with me and like bringing cupcakes to school, and was always someone that I could like come to for advice and lean on. Um yeah, and so this was somebody you were married to?

SPEAKER_04 29:51

No. Um I've been I've been married once, but we started dating.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

And you call him stepdad though.

SPEAKER_04 29:56

Yeah, because I really took on my entire family.

SPEAKER_03 29:58

Yeah, when I'm like my mom's ex-boyfriend, people think like, oh, it's said and dumb, but it's like they just my older brothers took their kids and him and his other grand, like they all just went on a trip together. Um, and we're very close. My oldest brother works with him every single day, so I feel like mom's ex-boyfriend kind of discredits the relationship.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

But they were never married because those are super formative years that he showed up for you.

SPEAKER_03 30:19

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, still to this day. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

Nice, nice. And that's nice to have.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

Yeah, it is. And you guys still have a great relationship too.

SPEAKER_04 30:28

Yeah, and he's you know, he's married now, and but then like I said, the whole family, my sons and their grandkids, my great my grandkids, which we share our the grandkids, they were all with his wife having Florida. I have four.

SPEAKER_00 30:41

Oh, I've seen them on your your pages. I mean, just really I've seen them at your house for Christmas.

SPEAKER_03 30:48

Yes, yes, they are so sweet.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Do you think you want kids one day?

SPEAKER_03 30:53

No.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Really?

SPEAKER_03 30:54

No. I think because all of my siblings how old were you gonna have to show them 22? 23. 23. All of my siblings had kids by that age, to 23. And so I've heard from you and I've seen from them, and I think it's just it's never been something that I've like really dreamt of growing up. I was always like, I want to be a lawyer, I want to be Olivia Pope, I want to be who's the woman from suits with the beautiful hair we used to watch.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

Oh, I know you're talking about the tall lady.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

Oh, yeah, Jessica Pearson, I guess her name was. I was like, that was always what I really wanted for myself, and I think now living in New York City and like really chasing my dreams, I just don't see that in my future. Because I'm like, yeah, you have to have them by what like 35, 37, so they don't come out like baby powder and like I think by 37, I'm still gonna want to be like frolicking, just free. It's just it's a commitment for the rest of your life. I'm 25.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

That's 12 years from now. Keep going.

SPEAKER_03 31:58

It's a commitment for the rest of your life. And it's something that we talk about too. It's like we've had this conversation. If you could go back and have like do it over, would you have kids again? And your answer is always no. And I think that's fair.

SPEAKER_04 32:11

That is now the internet is gonna probably kill me for that.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

But no, no, but I want you to say why.

SPEAKER_04 32:16

Because I feel like from the moment that I've had kids, I've had to almost die to myself. You know what I'm saying? But so I have no day that I wake up and it's only about me.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:25

Even now. Even now at 57 and my children are grown and they're all independent and self-sufficient, they don't need me to give them anything. When I wake up in the morning, I might be having a great day. I'm happy, everything's great. And if one of my children calls me and they're upset about something or there's a problem, now there's my deal.

SPEAKER_03 32:41

Even if I call her and I'm just like, Mom, I feel like I look so round today. Like, I'm so upset. Now I'm depressed. Now she's upset, and she'll be texting me, Well, Clark, are you okay? You look beautiful. I'm like, mom, I just don't want to talk right now. She'll be face telling me, and I'm like, I just can't. There's something that you always say. It's like your day is only as good as like your child's birthday.

SPEAKER_04 32:58

What is it? Your day is only as good as your happiest child or something, or saddest child or something. Something like that, yeah. Yeah, so I just really don't feel like my emotions belong to me. And I don't know that they ever will, because as long as you guys are in the world somewhere, if things aren't going right for you, then things aren't going right for me. Do you feel that way?

SPEAKER_01 33:15

1000%. You know what? And then I I came across a post, and I think I shared it with you all. It talked about being an entrepreneur, and it the I am the sole owner, I am an entrepreneur, I don't have any trust funds or any, I don't have any. I I kill, I eat what I kill.

SPEAKER_02 33:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

And then I'm responsible for my team and my child. And you know, in some days, in most days I manage that like you don't even know it. But sometimes when you sit back and think about it, it's a lot to manage.

SPEAKER_03 33:48

I can't even imagine. I'm drowning just trying to manage myself. Yeah. Like, and you know this. Like, yeah, I've like genuinely there are days where I'm like, I don't even think I can get out of bed. There's so much stuff that it's just like I have. And so I cannot imagine if I had a child, even an adult child, who was like, the way that I'll call you for things, oh Mom, I'm just so stressed about this. I just don't know that you know it's honestly the way that I feel about relationships as well. Like right now, there's a guy that I'm kind of seeing, and he like tore his ACL and he got surgery, and I was just like, I really want to be there for him in my spirit, but in my spirit, in actuality, it's like gonna be very hard for me to like worry about someone else on top of all the stuff I have to worry about for myself as well. Absolutely, absolutely, and I don't think I could elect to do that for the rest of my life, and that's that's like best case scenario, you have a very healthy baby that like ends up becoming an adult that goes off to do their own thing, but is not a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

Because you know, because we were talking about this last week or last podcast, and you were like, You've had sustained relationships. I'm like, no, yeah, I've had relationships that I've had and that have ended for people who have done it year over year over year over year. I'm like, that that sounds like a whole bunch.

SPEAKER_02 35:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

But you're lucky you still have kids around because you have nieces and nephews. That's why I'm so grateful Ariel has twins, and then I have a cousin who has three babies because I'm like, if I never have kids, there's plenty of babies for me to pour into.

SPEAKER_03 35:15

Yeah, I think when I say, like, talk about not wanting to have children, people are always like, that's so selfish, and I'm like, I mother and nurture my nieces and nephews. Like, they, I mean, Noone calls me, Noonie's my oldest nephew. I do so much for him. He'll come and spend like a week in New York with me, and like you'll come up. Like, I definitely get my fix of nurturing and you know, building a relationship with someone who's much younger and kind of advising, and then when I'm ready for that to be done, and I've got a bunch of stuff I gotta figure out for myself, they go back to their own.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

I say it as the opposite of selfish.

SPEAKER_04 35:47

I do too. I think it's more selfish to have children when you haven't really thought about all that you want to have to do. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

To have children and not want them or have the ability to adequately raise them.

SPEAKER_03 36:01

Yeah, yeah. Seth Rogan talks about that a lot. His decision not to have children with his wife, and I always love his interviews about it because it's like the same vein. I agree. Yeah, you have to check that out.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

And so I know you said no kids, but do you want to get married? Do you think that is on the table?

SPEAKER_03 36:15

I think I will definitely get married someday. I just like hope I marry someone who either doesn't want to have kids or they already like have a child by the time we get married, so they've got their face. Yeah, like a cool, like I don't know, I would even do like a 12. Well, how old was I was a jerk to my to Miguel though when we first met. I will not.

SPEAKER_04 36:36

I have uh something in my book about that. You can tell me about it.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

I was a jerk to dad's girlfriends when I was little.

SPEAKER_03 36:43

Yeah, I was like, and it would be like he would come and bring cupcakes to my class for my birthday, and then the next week I'd just be like, I cannot stand him. Like I just it was terrible.

SPEAKER_04 36:51

Yeah, she was horrible. It was so she was horrible, but I think I handled that very well because um so what happened, she would do that, and I think it was really because it was all about you know me and her. And she wasn't used to me with any man. Splitting time, yes, no, no, so no splitting time. And so when he would come, things would change a little bit. I would now, first of all, he would take us out together, and he took us out every Valentine's Day, even after we broke up, he would take us out, me and her, Valentine's Day. So you always get me Valentine. And so then and then sometimes, like, I wouldn't know what had happened, that she would just be treating him mean. I don't know if she just wasn't, he would, because he was living in Atlanta and I was living in Maryland at the time. But even once I moved there, she would still do it sometimes. Um, but anyway, so I had to tell her. Well, he first of all, he and I talked about it. I'm like, you know, I really I hate that she treats you like that. I said, and I'm I'm not gonna allow it. He's like, no, don't say anything to her. It's okay. I said, no. I said, because I'm I haven't hadn't met his kids yet. I said, because I'm gonna tell you now when I meet your kids, I'm not playing that. Your kids are not gonna throw me shade, and I'm I'm gonna say something about her, or I'll I won't be talking to her. I'm like, and I would be perfectly okay with you feeling like that about her. I was like, so we have to we have to fix this because we can't go any further, you know, the kid thing doesn't work. So I had to sit down and tell her, I'm like, listen, you are a child, and I am a woman, okay? And so I have needs that are different from just the, you know, from the needs that I have being your mom. And so I love you to death. No one is gonna ever come into my life that is going to change our relationship, so you don't ever have to worry about that. Because it's no competition here. I was like, but he's being very nice to you. And so, and he's being nice to your brothers, and he's being nice to me, and he makes me happy. So you're gonna have to stop with this foolishness. Now, if something is going on that you don't feel comfortable with, you want to talk to me about it. I was like, but other than that, you just of course it was. I knew that, but I just wanted to make sure that she understood that that this is about, you know, you can tell me anything, but I'm like, you're just not gonna treat him like that. I knew she was just being selfish. And then she, you know, she got it, she got it together.

SPEAKER_03 38:50

But I then we were literally best friends.

SPEAKER_04 38:52

Then they were they were literally best friends, you know, but I she got it together. And I think that for um parents, we get into this mode of being self-sacrificing because you do have to be self-sacrificing. And I think for women, and I can't, I'm not gonna say I'm gonna say women especially, but that's only because I'm not a man, so I don't know. But for women especially, we really do think about bringing men into our lives when we have kids, and we want to make sure that my kids are number one, as they should be. But when there's no competition, you don't have to sacrifice being able to have a relationship because your kids are acting a fool and they're not allowing you to have someone. You don't have to give up the person that you have when there's no there's no reason for it. You know what I'm saying? So because I I could have just said, okay, but listen, she doesn't like you, and I'm just not gonna talk to you anymore. But it wasn't that she didn't like him, she was, you know, doing her manipulative.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

That's what the open conversation allowed for, you know. That's what it allowed for. I understand, because as a baby Pisces, I feel like I dealt with so many big emotions as a kid. And it was just the conversation that needed to be had it to just let them pass. But if I had like locked them away, or if I had parents who didn't want to like let me vent for however long I want to beat a dead horse, I would have like had like suppressed emotions.

SPEAKER_04 39:56

Because I wasn't gonna just ignore that and just keep seeing them either.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

I was gonna make sure that she understood and he understood that okay, we have to fix this because with this can't especially in a day and age where a lot of women put men over children.

SPEAKER_04 40:08

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

You know, so you doing taking the correct steps, yeah, and then having little miss people.

unknown 40:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:15

Because I would never do that. And I think, like I said, we're fearful of that. Like, wait a minute, am I putting this man over my children? No, I'm not. So I didn't really think.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

No, because literally, like he would always take us out, and then he would take you out. And then if you guys went on a date, he would buy me. I was obsessed with Habo, that like little game. He would always buy me the little Habo card so I could go. She could be played. He would buy like cards for Trey to do whatever video game he was doing. I was just like the baby princess.

SPEAKER_02 40:43

I was still a princess.

SPEAKER_03 40:44

I mean, I was the baby and the only girl, and like I said, we were best friends, so it was just, yeah, now there's someone else who's trying to be my best friend's best friend. I'm like, I don't know about this. Yeah, she was a mess.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

So, what do you guys have planned? Like, as far as mother-daughter adventures, do you have any travels coming up? I know that you guys did that photo shoot. What was it, Paris? That was so cute.

SPEAKER_04 41:05

Oh, we were in the world. Oh, we were in London.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

Oh my gosh, those pictures, those outfits, mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 41:10

Oh, it was so fun, and that was like a whole surprise. I got we went shopping for your dress that day, and then I had a makeup artist come and the photographer, and like we went out to this beautiful restaurant after. Um, that was so fun. I guess like this summer, Chicago, we do want to go to the beach, so we've got to do some kind of beach vacay.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

And and kudos to you for acknowledging that your mother is still just a girl. And you all get to do these just a girl things together.

SPEAKER_03 41:34

Yeah, I love when you're gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

Surprising her with handbags and all the things you were doing for your London birthday. That was just it was so beautiful to see.

SPEAKER_04 41:41

Because that is so hard to accept sometimes, though. Because like my daughter, and I'm just like, just buy that. I'm like, no, I'm still like, you know, worried about think about our finances and stuff, and so I don't know, I don't know. That's just that's kind of hard.

SPEAKER_03 41:54

Yeah. That's the fun though of like becoming an adult and having an adult relationship with your parent, is like now I can understand, like sometimes even get emotional thinking about the fact that like you never got to have this season of your life that I do, and so it's so special that I have the means and like I've been blessed with the resources to be able to do these things with you and like take you to all these places because I mean the same things that make me happy as a girl, I know they make you happy, and like feeling beautiful in your makeup and getting photos taken and all of that. So it's really special. Yeah, it was it was special.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Yeah, that's actually you remember when I did that photo shoot for you for your birthday when you had first, it was so cute. She had this, like she hadn't gone fully gray yet, she had blonde gray. And it was so nice, it was like this honey blonde gray, and we did a surprise photo shoot with Rel in DC, and that was like the beginning of her posting era.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Oh, really? And so there are a couple other times that you have brought me almost to tears. I'm not a crier, right? And I don't ever let anyone see me cry. I'm just I'm just not that when we went to Mexico and they and we had a birthday thing up at the end. The four seasons. Yeah, I was like, okay, I'm not gonna cry, I don't want tomorrow to see me cry. And then the other day she bought me a um yearman bracelet. And you know what? I'm like, has anyone ever done anything big for me? Like, you know, like this size big, like just anything.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

And to me, that's like not big because I don't have the means to do what I would do if I like could for you. But it's like, you know, I I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

It's a good thing. When you live a life where the only person that does things for you is you, yeah. You know, like like she'll tell him she'll bring me chips and I'll be like, oh my god, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

It's really hard for me to hear her say that because you know, you've been married three times. So I'm like, people should have given you the world by now.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

This is true. So that's why that's why I encourage people don't run out and get married, child. Just wait a minute. Like you said, income bracket, education, different It's it's very difficult to seem like it's shallow when you say stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 43:55

But I mean, that is very important. I mean, because come on, I don't know why people jump on that. It could be more.

SPEAKER_03 44:01

She's so elitist, I can't believe she would say, and mind y'all, what I said in the video was I worked really hard to get to Columbia and to like have what I have right now. Like I've sacrificed a lot. I didn't date when I was in high school. I was like not at parties and clubs. And so now that I am like enjoying the benefits and you know, the fruits of my labor, I don't want to be with a SoundCloud rapper, respectfully.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

And if you were, they would still tear you up.

SPEAKER_03 44:25

Right. And so then that's the thing. Well, like, you know, they say, we always say choose better. And when a woman ends up a baby mama with this, that, this rapper who doesn't even want them, then it's oh my goodness. And then it's like, okay, well, I'm deciding to choose better. I didn't say anybody is beneath me. And now it's how dare you. And now it's oh my god, well, she just like I knew it. I can't win.

SPEAKER_04 44:45

They don't have anything to do with you thinking you're here and someone is there. It's about compatibility. I don't mean it. It's about compatibility and alignment, it really is.

SPEAKER_03 44:52

It really is.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

So who is this book for? I want to touch on the book one more time. If you were telling someone to buy the book, who is who's the audience for this?

SPEAKER_04 45:00

It would be for actually, it's a broad audience. It would be for the person who is planning a baby or planning a family. It would be for the person who already has a family. The younger the better, obviously. However, there's even a chapter in here that talks about repairing a relationship that you have with like your older children. And so um I think that it's even for a person who maybe you like you don't, you are the kid. You are the adult kid who has this relationship with your parents that's kind of like you know, a little shaky. Because I think that what it would do for that person is it kind of gives you some insight into um the thought process that your parents were having raising you. Like, we're not perfect, and we're we'd have no idea how to raise a child in every single circumstance. And so I would say, for um for me, what helped me when I was um raising my children is I had already thought about it. And this wasn't because I had this dream of I just want to have some children, I don't think I really thought about it. But I just knew um when I was a child there were certain things that my mom did or didn't do with me that I'm like, I really wish my mom did that. You know, and this is no judgment against my mother. You know, she did the best that she could with what she had, which is what I think most of us do.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:09

Um, it's not always enough though, you know. So, but I had this, especially around communication. I always had this idea that I wanted my mom to um just to talk to me more. And like she thought I was secretive and didn't tell her stuff. The way she would be hooting and hollering and cursing with her friends when she would one of her friends found out that her daughter wasn't a virgin, and when I tell you, I heard the way they were talking about that, and I mean they were going off. I was like, No to self. If that happens, don't tell her nothing. You know, so and so she didn't realize how many things that she did or said that prevented me from feeling like she was accessible, and then also just not, you know, I just kind of wanted her to just lay on the floor and play paper dolls, paper dolls back then, because I'm old. But paper dolls are Barbies or something with me, and she didn't. Now, once I got older, I understood she didn't know that, you know. But I think that for me, I used what I wanted when I was a child, but did not get as a foundation for what I would give to my children.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

So same. I used what I wanted and did not get. But for me, what I did not get also made deficiencies in who I am that I wasn't able to give. Right? That makes sense. So there were things I wanted that I didn't get, but then I'm not the warm and fuzzy kind, you know, like you're not gonna jump in my bag and we play hug bees and that sort of thing. I love you endlessly, I will be here for it. But it didn't shape and mold me. And even when I tried to be that person, I'd be like, girl, I'm okay, come on, kiss, hug.

unknown 47:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02 47:39

Right. Right. All right, you good?

SPEAKER_01 47:42

You know, so when she goes to school and is hugging everybody, I'm like, oh, because she doesn't get that at home, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

But I think that like what you're saying about like realizing what your childhood was like and what you want different for your kids, that's how you break the cycle. I think it is because I think when you're doing it unconsciously, just raising your kids, like, okay, well, this is what my mama did, I'm fine. Right. Like, you know, that's how a lot of times we see people stuck in these generational cycles. But what you're doing, I think, has like unlocked a new level for you, and you know, you're able to like make new decisions that you probably didn't feel like you were able to do.

SPEAKER_04 48:11

Right, exactly. So, and I just wanted I was just very intentional about that. And so the other thing um that I feel is a big part of my parenting philosophy is parent with the end result in mind because a lot of times when you're in the situation, your child has done X, Y, Z, and you have to deal with it. You're just thinking about right now how you feel it. Maybe you're mad, you're pissed off. But you can't just say everything that you would want to say because you gotta think about okay, now what impact is this gonna have later on? Because you can say something, you can go too far. Okay, and and I've gone too far from time to time. For the most part, I'm very thoughtful about things before I say them, but I've gone too far, and as you know, I will apologize.

SPEAKER_03 48:46

Yeah, and you do you always apologize one thing you say.

SPEAKER_04 48:48

I will always apologize.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

That's important. Because no parents are perfect, right?

SPEAKER_04 48:51

Exactly. So, um, but just thinking about that though, just like you know, maybe not just reacting to everything because okay, if I do this, what's gonna be the consequence? And there's always a consequence, you know. It could it could break something in the relationship, it could open up a wound, it could make your child, you know, like tear away at their confidence. Yeah, you know, even something as simple as when I was younger, my mother would I I could be sweeping, and she'd be like, Why are you holding that broom that way? Give me that broom. So and it made me feel like I didn't know how to do anything right. And she did not mean that.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

At all.

SPEAKER_04 49:21

She didn't mean it at all. But then I could see that as I was growing, I'm like, why do I always feel like I can't do things? Right. And I need to think about where did that come from?

SPEAKER_01 49:27

To Kamari, I said I was paying someone a compliment, right? And I said, Well, they're a bit like a football player, they're five or so. And it was a young lady, and she's like, and I said, You know that's a compliment, right? She was like, Mom, I know you're trying to say something nice. I know you're complimenting. I didn't even say anything yet because she knew she knew how she sounded.

SPEAKER_00 49:41

She was like, you know, that's a compliment. I was like, I knew you mean comp.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

She said if she can hear you, she'd be on her way to therapy.

SPEAKER_03 49:50

The way I said about myself on like from day one of my period, I'm like, oh my god, I'm literally built like a linebacker right now.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

No, this is the one that she always says, and I know she means it's a compliment when I'm wearing my natural hair, she'll be like, Oh, I love your little crunchies.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

I'm just saying little, I don't know what I said. I don't think, but you know, I'm like it's a jail cast. I'm about to bring it back to the name. That's the one, the jail cast.

SPEAKER_03 50:12

But that's one of those things that, like, like I have a friend who had a similar situation with her mom, and like her mom just like, I mean, that's not how I meant it, so I don't even know why you would take offense at that. I'm not apologizing for that. And it's that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00 50:24

We can laugh about it. We can always laugh.

SPEAKER_03 50:26

Laugh about it. And you know, if there is something that bothers you, I'm sure, you know, you guys have a conversation about it, and it's not this guarded, like, well, I didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 50:34

Oh, no, she's always telling me about myself, and I was like, I'm saying something sweet. You didn't hear it is sweet. Okay, I have a question though. So both of you all have legal backgrounds, and we both neither one of you all are working in them. What's the end game?

SPEAKER_03 50:59

So I did pre-law undergrad. I never ended up going to law school, but that I think eventually I would like to go to law school. I feel like I get to explore kind of my political advocacy side of things as a creator, like interviewings or mom Donnie, we talked about, and like going to the DNC, all those things. And I could see myself in the next like 10 years or so enjoying the experience of going to law school, and then like being able to actually use those credentials to like further that kind of side of my career. But right now I'm just I'm just traveling, I'm just trying to get unpacked from the city. Yeah, I told her.

SPEAKER_04 51:32

I told her definitely law school will be there. It will. Okay, and so yeah, I mean.

SPEAKER_03 51:37

What about you? You actually have a law degree.

SPEAKER_04 51:38

I do, and I license to practice law, but I'm licensed in Maryland. I did not uh take the bar in Georgia, so I'm not licensed in Georgia, but I I could. So um, I went to undergrad and I always wanted to be like a teacher and a lawyer. I always said that. So I said I'm and I told myself I'm gonna go to school. I'm gonna be a teacher first, and then I'm gonna go to law school. Kind of forgot about it, but then like five years out teaching, I decided I'm gonna go to law school. And then I just applied and wasn't I just really wanted to apply so I could say, okay, at least I'm doing something towards that. And I didn't expect to get accepted because I only applied to that one school, and wouldn't you know, God let me get access to it?

SPEAKER_00 52:13

You gotta be a teacher and a lawyer.

SPEAKER_04 52:15

So then I had to go and I actually went to the University of Maryland, and you they had a really good um part-time night program. So I went part-time, you graduate in four years instead of three, but it was still a lot because I was teaching high school English full-time. This is a long time ago before the internet and all the tools that you have to help you with stuff, um, with grading and all that stuff. So um, yeah, you start using the degree. Going back. Um like get the license.

SPEAKER_03 52:40

Yeah, perhaps.

SPEAKER_04 52:41

I'm thinking about it because I always wanted to do family law. And so I would probably maybe, because I'm I'm I can retire from teaching in two years, and so I'm not sure what I'm gonna do after that. I know I'm not gonna do nothing. I'm not gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 52:53

So you feel like you will retire in the two years.

SPEAKER_04 52:55

I will retire from teaching, yes, but I will do something else. And then maybe that's when I'll do something in the legal field or just for substack writing. Or yes, I do. Yeah, maybe another book. And I don't even know if I have another book, maybe, but I do like writing like like short form stuff on Substack.

SPEAKER_00 53:13

So you have a Substack too, right?

SPEAKER_03 53:15

I do, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:16

You like writing?

SPEAKER_03 53:16

I just became a Substack bestseller. Oh, congratulations. Oh my gosh. I don't know how well I do know how that happened. I wrote about going on a secret vacation with my ex for my birthday, and it was behind a paywall. And when I tell you my body, uh I have never had so many paid subscriptions come in in like a matter of three minutes, but I was hilarious. It's a fun outlet, and it's something that's a little bit more private than posting to a million people on TikTok. And you always like to write you a really good writer. Yeah, it's funny, I was always more drawn to academic, like research-based writing, so it's been an interesting exploration of like my creativity. But you know what?

SPEAKER_00 53:51

That makes so much sense for you to me because you you really talk about your life in a really good way on social media and stuff, but you also have this super academic background. That's how we were introduced to you. So it makes sense to me that we still see some of that from you.

SPEAKER_03 54:03

Yeah, no, I've enjoyed it. It's been fun. I think she should write a book. Maybe one day.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

What would you write a book about?

SPEAKER_03 54:11

I think, well, I love the idea of my white couch era. So I always that's what the title of my subsack is, and I like being able to just explore those kind of topics, like even loneliness. Like for young women, I feel like you know, we have sex in the city, which is Carrie was not the best example. She was nice and down the street. At all. At all. I feel like not even that I want to be an example, but I think to be able to share some of my experiences with like the other young women who I think, and also some women who are even older than me that say like things in my life inspire them or you know, they glean some insights from something. Um, some maybe something along those lines.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

You know what, but and I guess what always some women just don't feel like we feel. Like some women just like it's great that you're not lonely, but I am. Right. But I'm well then I don't know if if no matter what I tell you, you're gonna tell me that you're lonely. Right, yeah. I don't know what you what I can say.

SPEAKER_03 55:03

Yeah, right. And I think it's just spending more time with yourself. Like we probably are very comfortable with our. What kind of you are you in Aquarius? Why do you have that person? Pisces. Okay. February, Pisces. March.

SPEAKER_00 55:12

Wait, what?

SPEAKER_03 55:13

March 17th.

SPEAKER_00 55:14

I'm the 19th.

SPEAKER_03 55:15

Are you really waiting who's okay? No, Christy's the 21st, she's an Aries, my best friend, but Ariel's an Aries, my best friend.

SPEAKER_00 55:22

We're seven days apart.

SPEAKER_03 55:23

Oh, what the Amazon twins. This one I worked at David Yeerman and they had an employee, so my god. I love it. I love it. Um, but yeah, I think spending time with yourself is really important. And some people don't do it enough, some people do, and they still, you know, are gonna experience those things. But I think sometimes I present things and I what I would like to think is a nice personality. And you know, I'd I'd love to share more of that through Substack Media Book.

SPEAKER_04 55:51

And I think that's important for young people women anyway, because I hate the fact that we're still feeling like life is not complete unless we are in a relationship.

SPEAKER_02 55:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:58

But like I was just around some friends of mine and they were like, Oh my god, you're just you're you're just so nice. Why aren't you married? And I actually feel like that's kind of insulting.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

It's just like some people that we have to decent, or decenter the idea that they're the prize or that marriage is the pride. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 56:13

So if I'm so nice, then why don't I have a there's still this American dream? Like, listen, the American dream is just a lie told by the patriarchy to keep the systems moving the way they wanted them to move. And now that we have the freedoms that we have and don't have to subscribe to that, they're trying to roll it back. Right.

SPEAKER_00 56:29

And I'm like, do they ever think maybe you're so nice because you aren't married? To be like happy or something.

SPEAKER_03 56:37

Yeah, yeah. So no, it's that's definitely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:41

Well, I am so glad to have had you guys on the show today. We are so glad to have you.

SPEAKER_03 56:46

This was so fun. I see it really loving you guys. It's so fun. It's I know. I told her that.

SPEAKER_04 56:52

Yeah, because I love your podcast so much. Thank you. I am the number one fan.

SPEAKER_01 56:57

You know what? It's refreshing to find mother-daughter relationships. Like when we started this, people like, and I'm like, not everyone's talking to their mother this way. And because we've only been this way, is all we know. This is all we know. Yeah, so it's very true.

SPEAKER_03 57:13

Yeah, being on the internet and seeing other people comment on our relationship, which I'm sure is similar to you guys, it's like people really didn't have this. So I think it's beautiful that they get to see it in you guys. Yeah, I do too.

SPEAKER_01 57:23

Um, yeah, and in black families, between black women, yeah. All the things, yes, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_04 57:30

And present it so authentically, like I said, because you guys are not up there just smiling and like you're talking, and yeah, you can if you have a disagreement, it's not a it's not an argument, but you're like, oh no, you thought that? Oh, you know, so I love that. You know what? It doesn't seem fake at all.

SPEAKER_01 57:44

If she's short with me, maybe it has nothing to do with me. Maybe I was late, I got her anxiety up, and because I know that, maybe it could happen. And then I have to I have to make room for that. You know what I'm saying? So I'm not bowing down to my daughter, I'm making room for the things that I can see.

SPEAKER_03 58:04

Yeah, that's what relationships are all about.

SPEAKER_01 58:06

That's exactly relationship, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:08

Well, thank you guys again. Felicia, can we see your book one more time? Oh, sure.

SPEAKER_04 58:13

Yeah, you give us available on Amazon. The Parenting Playbook by Felicia People. Yes, because there's another book called The Parenting Playbook. It doesn't look like a this, but you know, and so Felicia Peoples.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

Thank you. Awesome. Well, thank you guys. You want to tell them where they can find you guys on socials? Give your handles.

SPEAKER_04 58:29

Oh, sure. So I am on Instagram, it's terrible though, um, at Felicia at FG Peoples. I am on TikTok at Felicia Peoples. And then my substack is Second Wind.

SPEAKER_03 58:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 58:41

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_03 58:42

Yes. I am on Instagram at Clark Peoples. My TikTok is Clark with four A's in the middle, and my substack is White Cow Chera.

SPEAKER_00 58:51

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 58:52

All right, well, thank you guys for watching. This is Between Mothers and Daughters.