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Midwest Besties
The Boy Mom™ Essay that Broke the Internet
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In this week’s pop culture potluck, the besties talk about what is possibly the darkest of your for you page: Boy Moms™. Jenny Mollen’s weird Instagram post with her son and bizarre Substack essay left us with questions and concerns. We also chat about Taylor Swift’s original song for Toy Story and whether this will finally get her that coveted Oscar. We switch to TV to give our thoughts on the Hacks series finale and dive into the latest episode of Bravo’s In the City.
0:00 - Jenny Mollen and the darkness of Boy Moms
SPEAKER_04I'm Lauren and I'm Emily. And we're Midwest Besties.
SPEAKER_00I always get this way before Mother Boy. Oh God, it's Mother Boy already? Mother Boy was a dinner dance aimed at promoting mother-son bonding. Lucille had gone over 25 times with Buster, and on a few occasions had one cutest couple.
SPEAKER_03Welcome to the Pop Culture Pot Look. Yes, and as usual, we have a full docket of things to discuss. Yes. So first up, we want to talk about something that was just like storming through the internet.
SPEAKER_04I got a text from Lauren a few days ago and was like, Do you know this like crazy boy mom saga?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So it got picked up by like people. So it was like becoming a big deal. So this actress and writer, Jenny Mollin, I think is how you say her last name, she you might know her. She um is married to Jason Biggs of American Pie fame.
SPEAKER_04Um she hosted that like dinner in a movie on like that basic cable.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So she has um a substack where she so she's a writer, so she's like published essays and done things like that.
SPEAKER_04And she's written two books that are like New York Times bestsellers.
SPEAKER_03Okay, yeah. And then okay, so the thing that started catching heat was she posted this Instagram, and they they have two boys, and she posted an Instagram with her older son, um, and she was like laying on top of him, and they were like very much like entangled, and it was like your oldest son will be your most toxic relationship, was the initial caption. And people immediately took umbrage with this and were like, This is weird, this is gross, like I don't like she was it was weird, she was like laying in between his legs. I I just it was very strange. The caption was weird. Like, why are we referring to our adolescent son in a way that like would uh indicate that he's a romantic partner? Um, so she did change the caption just to a period, um, which was weird, and then people started to kind of like dig in and they found this substack that she had written in early May, and it said the title is Please Stay. I want you, I need you, oh God, which is like a love song. Yeah. Like Please Stay. Benson Boone, right? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Stay on to Roger.
SPEAKER_03Um, it starts with call me old fashioned, but I only want my sons to marry women with dead mothers. So that really just sets the tone. And it's basically like if you've been on the internet for any amount of time, there is this like there is this theme of boy moms. Like it has become a meme. It doesn't just mean like you have a boy, it's like it is a personality trait, um, it's a caricature, it's like a whole thing. And like I have a son, um, and just one, and Emily has I have a son and a daughter. Yeah. So I think we both have like interesting. A little bit different perspectives.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. But it it hopefully we have you have been saved from this on your feed, but it's dark. It's like moms who are putting on prom dresses to go to the prom with their sons. It's, you know, very much, and this isn't new, but it's like he I was your first love. I was your first girlfriend.
SPEAKER_03Um preemptively hate their sons, like future partners, specifically like girls, and who seem to think like that their relevance as a parent is going to immediately disappear. Like their relevance as a mom or anything important in their son's life is going to immediately disappear the second oh he gets a serious girlfriend or gets married. Referring to your son as the love of my life. No, thank you. Referring to your son as my boyfriend. I know. Something I've never something has always really bothered me about that.
SPEAKER_04It's it's also just this idea of like you are on le uh on a level playing field, like you give this to me and I give this to you. That is not a parent and child relationship at all.
SPEAKER_03No, it's fucked up.
SPEAKER_04She clearly is like a humorist. Like she is supposed to be funny, like call me old-fashioned, but I want my sons to marry women with dead mothers. That is clearly supposed that is clearly supposed to be hyperbolic.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. But it's like based this whole essay is supposed to be hyperbolic.
SPEAKER_04But I hope it's based in truth.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So basically, she goes on to say that as the mother of only boys, she has two. Um then she goes on to say basically that like she was a mother's worst nightmare.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_04She's a heartbreaker. She just had boys fall in love with her and she didn't even know what to do. So already, like, very pick me. Oh my yeah. Goodness gracious. Again, I don't know anything about this woman.
SPEAKER_03I know.
SPEAKER_04So it's hard for me to take this like tiny little snapshot. And I also, for the blowback she's given, even if someone is atrocious, which this woman seems kind of like a total fake. Yeah, I always get I always feel bad for people when their like level of cancellation or their level of scandal does not match their level of fame. Totally. Um, and that is what we're seeing with this woman. Yeah. Because it's being Jason. Wait, are they exes? Okay, so this is I didn't know if we should wait till the end. They're getting a divorce. So this is Oh my god, that makes this so much worse. This is Smear from Jason Biggs camp, without a doubt.
SPEAKER_03You can't see my mouth, my jaw dropped.
SPEAKER_04I mean, and by without a doubt, I have no evidence. I just know. I did not know that they were getting a divorce. So she actually wrote, and she also could be getting PR because maybe she's writing another book. Um, because she wrote a pretty popular essay a little before that, or maybe even earlier than that, but like it just got a lot of eyes about like getting a divorce.
SPEAKER_03I didn't realize that. Wow. Okay, because there was this line in there that I thought was really weird where she says, We have a shorthand, she's referring to her and her boys. We have a shorthand, a long hand, in a second language that Jason still luckily doesn't understand. I thought that was really weird. That is weird. Like, I was like, why wouldn't you want your husband and their dad to like be in on the joke with you?
SPEAKER_04And there is a lot of like levels of satire in this essay where there has to be like a root of truth in it. So one of the lines that really stood out to me and really grow the whole thing is that her son was talking to a girl. Her son is 12, and she already could tell she didn't like this bitch. And she uh mentioned that she was talking to Jason, and she's like, and she's not even hotter than me.
SPEAKER_03Like, what are we doing? Are you okay?
SPEAKER_04The way I have never okay, I have an eight-year-old son, and I think a lot about who his partner's going to be. For one thing, like, are we even in the she's supposed to be in LA? Like, why is she thinking in such heteronormative terms? I know that really bothered me about this.
SPEAKER_03Um, why is this so it's like all about girls and women that these boys are gonna marry? Like, you have no fucking idea like what their sexuality is gonna be. Like who they're gonna be. Yes, what is wrong with you?
SPEAKER_04And like we're sitting here in like a cornfield knowing that. Right. Oh my god. Um so just the way I've never thought about like what is am I how am I going to look compared to never the part of it? Never crossed my mind.
SPEAKER_03I mean, if anything, you'd want them to be attractive, so you have attractive grandkids. Totally. Of course. It's so weird. And it's also like I was because Emily and I were texting about it a little bit too. I'm like, this attitude, it's also that just this like self-fulfilling prophecy, too, of like, of course, like this woman, the the women who are worried about losing their sons to these like bitches, like they should be worried because they're fucking crazy. So it's like it's a snake eating its tail because then it's like they're proven right, but it's also like it they are proven right because they're fucking crazy, and they're probably their sons' wives are gonna hate them and pull their son their husband away. But at the same time, there's never any self-reflection because this is what they always thought was gonna happen. No, so it's awful.
SPEAKER_04It's also just like your identity is through this child.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I feel like there is this like part of the boy mom thing is like they are getting emotional fulfillment and like male attention, not like sexual attention, but like they are they are using their sons in such a like an emotional way to fulfill their emotional needs that like they're not getting from their husbands or their partners. Yes. And that is fucked. It's fucked, super fucked up.
SPEAKER_04Like I I feel like I have a really good marriage. And one of the things, like, write this down, everybody, that I feel like makes a good marriage when you have kids is that it has to be you and your husband worse them.
SPEAKER_03We are at war. Every day we are on the front lines of a battle.
SPEAKER_04And like, don't get me-and we love being moms. I oh my god, it's like adore it. It was it is what I am meant to do. It has made me the person that I am. I am I am obsessed with my children. I think I cannot wait. I get so excited that I get to be a part of their lives. But like, I am a As a parent though. I am a mama bird, which means like I'm kicking that bitch out of the nest two weeks in.
SPEAKER_03There will be no failure to launch, whether it's my foot kicking you out. I don't care if you're like bopping squirting around underneath that nest. You're out of the nest. And that's the point. Like, why are we treating like that? Is the whole point of being a parent? Is like raising people, right? Like, we aren't just having babies, giving them a childhood so that they can live a life. But giving them a launch pad. Like, I'm so tired, and this is like a whole thing on the internet too, of like, you only have 18 summers, mama. You only have 18 summers, mama. Hey, mama, you're gonna miss this. You're gonna miss this. Like, maybe I'm not gonna miss that.
SPEAKER_04The days are long, but the years are short.
SPEAKER_03Don't blink. Don't blink, don't blink, mama. Hey, mama. I know you're tired, mama. You only get to do this once. And then all that's left is death, mama. Or your your son's bitch wife. Like, it's so I'm so tired of that. This is the point. The whole point is to raise kids to become people who can go out into the world and be like independent and make a difference and add some joy.
SPEAKER_04So now we're gonna insert like, okay, the old, the age-old saying of like, a daughter's a daughter the rest of your life. A son is a son is a son until he takes a wife. Okay, they're I grew up hearing that. They're saying, yeah. And there, I think there is a micum of I think there's some truth to that.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_04Um, so this is where our different perspectives come in. Because like I have I have my You have a girl, I have a girl, and I don't.
SPEAKER_03So it's like I my money's all on one horse, baby.
SPEAKER_04So do uh as someone who is a mother of a son, that's what I call my only a son, does any of this resonate with you?
SPEAKER_03I mean, I think that there's always a concern, like I that I would not be as close with my son or like my potential future grandkids, like if there was like discord between a future partner and myself. But I also feel like the difference between like myself and like prior generations, like boomers and like maybe even Gen X, is I would want to like be accountable for my actions and I think like and be self-aware and like how and like knowing how I have felt in certain situations and being more considerate and respectful of like boundaries with that a future partner and my son might have. Like, so it's like of I think that's always no matter what, like, no matter if you have a boy or a girl, that's always something.
SPEAKER_04I think there is this uh in this woman I already can tell is on this trajectory of like, well, I raised you, so now you owe me. Right. And that's very toxic. Um, and it's it's you know, well, I'm your you only have one mother, you only have one father, and like this this idea that um, yeah, like you're owed. And uh what I want, uh because I think about, and I think we as millennials, we think about the relationships we want to have with our grown children. I don't think any generation has ever thought about that. And again, we're all trying to do better. Boomers were just trying to not like beat the shit out of their kids because that's what their parents did. Like, yeah, so we're all we're all trying to do our best. Yeah, I realize this. But for me, it's like my children don't owe me anything. No, and they didn't ask me. They did not ask to be born. Yeah. Um we made this choice, and that is true even when they're adults. So for me, I agree. It's like I had a therapist once like ask me, like, what kind of relationship do you want with your adult children? Um, which is interesting because it will start to reflect on how you parent your younger child. And for me, it's like I just want them, I just want to be part of their lives. Yeah. I want to be able to call them and have them be excited to pick up the phone.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. But like I don't really have any other expectations. I want my son to always know, like to always come home and be like, I'm home. Like I can be home. I can always come back to my parents. Um, I want him, yeah, like I want to like get dinners together. Yes. Like I want to celebrate holidays together to whatever extent like makes sense for them.
SPEAKER_04But I don't think about like where they're gonna live. Like, I hope they go out and experience different places. Yeah. I like constantly am like, wouldn't you want to live in New York so I could like visit New York all the time? Um, but like I don't because it's their fucking life. Yeah. I'm just here to kind of make sure that you live to adulthood.
SPEAKER_03And I always just want them, want him to know like I'm a like a safety for him. I'm a safety net place, you know, like no matter what. Like, so it's not about this, like, I need to be intertwined with you and like in the day-to-day in the weeds. Like, I guess if that's what he wants, like I'm probably gonna be down for that. Maybe I might be like, you need to fucking figure it out.
SPEAKER_04No, I need to knock on wood because I would be disappointed. Like, I am I have big plans for my 50s.
SPEAKER_03But I do wonder too, if some of this goes back to like just being unhappy in your relationship. One, like literally 1,000%. Because like I, kids, like the best distraction you could ever have is to have a child. Yes. Like it is like you don't have a lot of time to like think. Like you are just like your days, like so much of your time is spoken for. Yes. And so when you do have time with your spouse, like it's just not the same as what it used to be.
SPEAKER_04I just think it's also crucial to like still look at your spouse and talk about things that aren't your kids. Yeah, totally. Like go to a movie and talk about a fucking movie, go out to eat and like talk about the fucking bread. Like you need to still see yourselves, not as parents. Yes. So that you stop looking for emotional fulfillment from your children. For one thing, if you're trying to get emotional fulfillment from a 12-year-old boy, good fucking luck.
SPEAKER_03Go to therapy.
SPEAKER_04Like the only fulfillment I get from my eight-year-old is I guess what fucking fugglers are, or my singing monsters, or hearing about Minecraft for 14 hours a day.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I just like I enjoy spending time with my husband. Like we are like friends. We have like a good, we laugh together, like we're very silly. Like we have common interests, but we're also very independent too, which I love because we can have like our time. Um, but like being a parent, being a mom is not like my identity, like my only identity.
SPEAKER_04I would because she does going back to this article, she does talk about how she like has a full-time job. And does she say she has friends? She has friends.
SPEAKER_03That's so true. Because also having friends is really interesting. She says, I'm not a stay-at-home mom. I have a job, a dog, and 12 to 15 things. I'm considering buying off the real, real. Ha ha ha. But yeah, it's also like, do you have friends? Because like I love, like, we have a solid core group of friends. We're like, we love to spend time together.
SPEAKER_04She says, um, in talking about her son's future uh mother-in-law, uh, and talking about her son's future wife, her mom will be the one to watch the grandkids and join them for family vacations. I'll be the lonely old woman wandering the grove on Fairfax, waiting for my 5 p.m. table for one at the fucking marmalade cafe. That was crazy. I okay, and here's the thing maybe, probably your son gets married, has a kid. If it is a woman, that woman's mother will be more around because it's like when you have a baby, you want your mom around.
SPEAKER_03Hopefully. And maybe you'll become really close with that woman too, if you're not a fucking nightmare, freak ass boy mom who like wants to also be in your marriage.
SPEAKER_04I mean, I like shout out to Mima, shout out to my mother-in-law. Like, I do she is the integral part of my village, she is president of my village.
SPEAKER_03Both of our mother-in-laws go by Mima. Isn't that funny? That is really funny. That is funny. Yeah, yours chose it, right? Mine totally happened by organically. Yeah, my son just like started calling him that. So funny. Um, she also says, maybe that's maybe the tragedy of sons is also the gift, the temporary delusion that you can be all things to another person. Like, girl, like, are you medicated?
SPEAKER_04No.
SPEAKER_03You should be.
SPEAKER_04That is this is this is um, this is written by someone whose betas are not blocked.
SPEAKER_03There, that there is no competition for their love, no caveats to their devotion. You're a fucking freak. Get a hobby. Start playing mahjong.
SPEAKER_04Please start playing mahjong. Please start needlepointing. Oh my god, we have so many hobbies to give you.
SPEAKER_03Yes, like we can tell you all the things to do. It's just like I I do feel, and I think we're seeing it more like millennials are going analog. Like, we are like it's like millennials love grandma hobbies. Yeah. So, like, you know, it's like that was an intention that I set years ago when I kind of realized like I don't, I was like, God, I really I like I love to read. I've always read I love pop culture. But like outside of like being on my phone or like reading stuff, I was like, what are my hobbies? Like, what am I creating? What am I doing? Like, what is taking up my time? Yeah. And I like made a really conscious effort to start, you know, like finding hobbies and doing things that I enjoy, you know, that's like just for me, you know, outside of my husband or outside of my friends. And I just think like that's really important to do.
SPEAKER_04And I have hobbies too. Like I love to garden, I've always loved to garden. And you love like, you know, flower arrangements and things like that. But like you don't even have to get that like um glamorous sounding when women talk like this. It's like, have you ever gotten drunk at a restaurant with your three best friends? I mean, it doesn't even be three best friends. If you can't if you go to a restaurant by yourself instead of the bar and get drunk, you're gonna make friends. It's fine. Just do that. You know, life isn't that scary when you get drunk at a restaurant.
SPEAKER_03Just order a bunch of appetizers, have a little girl dinner, make friends with the bartender, everything will be okay. Uh it was it's it's crazy. So I recommend reading it, checking it out. I don't know. Just think about with the way you're parenting, maybe. I don't know. If you relate to this, please seek help.
SPEAKER_04If you relate to this, that's feel bad for you.
SPEAKER_03I really do.
SPEAKER_04Sorry, you had to listen to us for your kids.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Most importantly, I feel really bad for your kid's future partner. Okay, another big thing
Taylor Swift’s Toy Story Song
SPEAKER_03that is rounding the internet right now is Miss Taylor Swift.
SPEAKER_04So, you know how I like bashed her last episode because I was like, she's doing PR for her fucking wedding. I'm a dumb idiot. She is going to be singing songs for Toy Story 5.
SPEAKER_03She wrote an original song for Toy Story 5. I'm excited. Called I Knew It. I Knew You. Um I'm not sure exactly. When do we get it? Uh maybe next week. Yeah, because it comes out, I think, June.
SPEAKER_04The movie comes out like June 15th. I imagine it'll come out a couple days before it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So um I was immediately interested. So there was all these billboards were popping up around, and they were just, they said TS, but it was like all in the Toy Story, like font and like theme. Iconography. Yes. And so everybody was freaking out like what's going on. And then she announced it on Instagram and they announced it. So we don't have the song yet. I'm sure it's going to be a big tearjerker. Yeah. I would assume.
SPEAKER_04And in how it relates to Toy Story, all the all the songs are usually like one second. Very much. You've got a friend in me. Yeah. Or um When She Loved Me by Sarah McLaughlin from Toy Story 2.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Um, and so I immediately was like, okay, so she's this is how she's trying to get that Oscar. Girl, and this is how you do it. It's interesting, it's like a totally different route to the Oscar than she has taken, where it's like, I'm writing an original song for a very established, commercially liked franchise. Yeah. Because she wrote an original song for Cats, which was. I don't even know if the song was bad. I don't even, what was it? Like Whispers or something? It was like I don't know. But Cats was so bad. It was like a joke. I do think it was nominated for the Golden Globes.
SPEAKER_04I think a lot when you have this much push, the the campaigning of it. The campaigning of it is kind of a given.
SPEAKER_03Yes. But it was it did not win. It was never really in contention. No. Um, so I was like, okay, this this might do it for her. Because as everybody knows, like Taylor really wants the e-got. So it would be interesting to see how she can get that T. She can do some stage acting.
SPEAKER_04She can just write, she should write, she should write a musical based on her song. She's totally gonna do that.
SPEAKER_03And I'd fucking see it. Female Rage the Musical. Yeah. She's like trying to trademark. Yeah. Totally. You're so right. She's not actually trying to trademark female rage, right? She's trying to trademark female rage the musical. Like, actually, are you like hyperbolizing making a joke? Very curious. Like it's in the like the in the federal trademark.
SPEAKER_04She can't write. She has.
SPEAKER_03I can't believe you didn't know that.
SPEAKER_04No one. She's been trying to do that. I can think of the antithesis of female rage as Taylor Swift.
SPEAKER_03So she's been trying to do it since she debuted the tortured poets portion. Oh my god. Uh, on of Tor, on the Ares Tour. And everybody was like, oh my God, this is female rage. And it became like it became a buzzy thing, and she's trying to trademark it. So it's probably what she'll do.
SPEAKER_04If someone thinks that Taylor Swift is a good example of female rage, please just I go listen to Wood. I mean, I beg of you. Whole just listen to one whole song. Like, I just beg of you, like, please expand your horizons. And I don't mean this as an insulting way. I fucking love Taylor Swift. Yeah, we're 50s. But like, she's thinking of.
SPEAKER_03I would think of Olivia Rodrigo before I thought of Taylor Swift.
SPEAKER_04At least she's not blonde. I know. I know.
SPEAKER_03Um, also, there is precedence. So, like, Disney, like Disney songs, the songs that artists have written for like Disney Pixar movies have been nominated and they have won Oscars before. So I'll be super curious this award season. It's a good idea. It's a good idea. It's this, it's one of the smartest things she's done. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And she's back with Jack Antonov.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So he uh has a writing credit on it, and I don't know if he produced. I would assume because he's a writing Oscar yet. I don't think so.
SPEAKER_04That's crazy for how many Grammys he's won.
SPEAKER_03I know.
SPEAKER_04So I'm excited about this. Jake asked me about it, and he's like, Are you so excited? And for me, I'm never like pumped for original songs. Like me either.
SPEAKER_03I totally agree with you.
SPEAKER_04Like even, okay, so Lady Gaga just came out with that fashion. Runway. Yeah, runway. Yeah. With uh Dochi.
SPEAKER_03Yep. And I love Dochi. And it was a good song. It's a great song, but I like didn't get into it. No. I don't know. I think I'm an album girly. I am an album girly. I just like, I don't know.
SPEAKER_04I need like a catalog. And I just want, like, what do you want to write about? Not like, oh, you watch this movie, so like, go. I totally agree. And obviously there are exceptions to the rule. Shallow. One of the greatest songs of all time. One of the greatest songs Of course. One of the greatest Lady Gaga songs of all time. So fucking good. But even like Mark Ronson even said, like, when they wrote it, they were like, we're gonna be rich. Like he they even knew that they had something special.
SPEAKER_03It was something special, so special for sure.
SPEAKER_04I mean, they gave it to Bradley Cooper and he like essentially wrote it into the plot.
SPEAKER_03Like I mean, and then he like took voice lessons to make his voice like deep enough so that he could actually sing it. Star is born is so good. It's so good.
SPEAKER_04Um, but yeah, we shall see. Like it could be a clunker, it could be cute. Um, I think this is a great idea. It's a good idea.
SPEAKER_03And sorry, I made fun of you for pap walking. You were just pap walking to promote your new song that you're releasing to tying in an Oscar.
SPEAKER_04I'm a bitch.
SPEAKER_03Uh what do we bitch fork? We've never trademarked. We've never hidden the fact that we're bitches.
SPEAKER_04So bitchfork score pending. Um, so hacks
Hacks Series Finale
SPEAKER_04ended. What did you think? It's fine.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so we were right.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03We were we were absolutely actually, you know what Pa Daddy called it.
SPEAKER_04Pa daddy called it so hard. He called it so hard. Um it wasn't, I wasn't like, this is so awful, but I wasn't like moved.
SPEAKER_03I totally agree with you. I was, it's so interesting to me because Rotten Tomatoes, it's like a 99%. Everyone's like, hacks is the perfect show. This is the perfect finale. I'm like, are we missing something?
SPEAKER_04Possibly. I'm not like the smart, I'm not like the person.
SPEAKER_03That is why we have this podcast. Because I feel like there might be a lot of people who are like, what? But it's like all the elitist voices drown. Like, I don't know. It's just like I haven't seen a lot of like criticism of it. No.
SPEAKER_04And it is really good. Like it is, and it's really smart, and it's the lighting is better. I mean, we're talking like we're talking about like technically, like of course, the writing is better, the lighting is better, the sets are better, the direction is better.
SPEAKER_03Like, it's an HBO show.
SPEAKER_04We don't get a lot of like high, high quality art television content.
SPEAKER_03And the acting is insane, and the acting is insane.
SPEAKER_04Um all that aside, the the best finale of hacks was the season two finale of hacks. Yeah, like that was the complete story. Yeah, I agree. Um I think it's just hard to write five seasons of really good television. Um and and and I think that might be pretentious, but it's like if you always look at like British television shows, like they're so short, and they have like two episodes, and that's why British television is more prestige.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yeah, it's so true.
SPEAKER_04Um so I Because it just jumps the shark. It just and they're and there were so many moments that jumped the shark.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and that's why we were so relieved when they they did really like we knew they were doing season five, and then they announced like, okay, this is our final season. We were like, thank God, like it needs to be your final season. You cannot. It's also just like the reality of Deborah's character and like what else is she gonna do?
SPEAKER_04I mean, if they would have kept her in Vegas and like had hijinks, I think that would have been awesome.
SPEAKER_03What did you think about the fact that they chose not to kill off Deborah?
SPEAKER_04I think it was a cop-out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think so.
SPEAKER_04If you're gonna fucking here's the thing either do it or don't do it. If you're gonna take us all the way there to we're about to board the train, don't fucking dangle it in front of us for some unearned grief. Unearned emotion.
SPEAKER_03I feel like it's a pandering, like where, and you hate that too, where it's like, don't like, are you trying to make me cry when she doesn't buy the salt and pepper shakers? Exactly. And then she's like, I got one more hour.
SPEAKER_04And it's like, I don't like being pandered too.
SPEAKER_03I don't like that. I don't like being toyed with. No. I was we were toyed with. Yes. How okay, so we're in agreement. I thought I felt like we would be in agreement. How did you feel about they really did do a good job of like they wanted to tie everything up neat very neatly in a bow about Jimmy and Kayla's hostile takeover of her dad? I did like that company. I like that. Yeah, I thought that that was great, and I thought it was very cute that Kayla, it was very full circle. Like she wanted to go and sit at her old desk where she could see Bummy and he could see her. Yeah. It was very cute. Um, who else? We did we got a Marcus moment, we got a Marcus's mom and her best friend moment when they opened it, but it was good. And we got a DJ moment, yeah, which she was in the audience. And I do want to talk about the fact that DJ was just like not spoken of in conjunction with like Deborah talking about that she wanted to die, and like had like plot hole? Like, what are we doing here?
SPEAKER_04I I feel like what made Hex so good? Obviously, it is about Deborah and Eva. Of course, but it was an ensemble, it was the cast of characters, it was the cast, it was the rotating cast of characters. And I felt and in season two, it definitely shifted more to the two of them. But like if you were gonna do three and four, I wish they would have just focused on on more plot instead of just character.
SPEAKER_03And what I think was so fun about this show, and we've talked about this, was like Vegas as a character. Vegas is a character. And we really kind of lost that. They did bring it back this season. They did, they did, but it was like a bummer to me that they were in Paris for so much of it, too. I love that they ended on the strip. Like, I thought that was great. I thought the ending song was great. Okay, so the ending song was so great. The ending song I was like, this is amazing. I loved, totally agree.
SPEAKER_0499% on Bitcoin. It was just like, no, no, right.
SPEAKER_03But it's like nobody is talking about DJ. No. And like that's her daughter. Like, what? Um, so yeah, and then we got a really great ending with oh my god, what's his name? Who that she like kind of had the romance with. Oh yeah, what is his name? Uh, the owner of uh Shooter McGavin.
SPEAKER_04Yes, shooter McGavin, yeah. And I loved him coming back because I love him. He was great. We got Mayor Joe.
SPEAKER_03We got some Mayor Joe in this. She's great.
SPEAKER_04Always give me more Mary Joe Mayor Joe.
SPEAKER_03Always. We got Kiki in this. Yes. Um, so we did get like we wrapped up all of the characters that we had come to like know and love and miss. Yeah. Um, I'm glad it's over. It was not the best season for them, even though like Rotten Tomatoes apparently is like 99%. Like, okay.
SPEAKER_04I I mean, yeah. I don't was it good? Great. But like I'm thinking like 78%.
SPEAKER_03When we look at seasons one and two, though, like there's no we can't compare.
SPEAKER_04It's so good.
SPEAKER_03It's so good. It was so good.
SPEAKER_04I'm gonna watch season three.
SPEAKER_03I'm gonna go back. I was just thinking, I'm like, I'm gonna rewatch. Let's get in the city. In the city. Um,
In the City, S1 E3
SPEAKER_03you're fully caught up. Fully caught up. I'm fully caught up.
SPEAKER_04Episode three is where we're at, where it ended.
SPEAKER_03The editors did their fucking big one.
SPEAKER_04Oh my god. Can we? I'm gonna give a shout-out because they're probably like working some long ass hours. They to be a Bravo editor right now. Holy shit. They are missing their family, they are missing their spouses, and I just want to know that they're eating live creating content that I really appreciate.
SPEAKER_03I mean, shout out we know that you are in some like dark room with lots of screens.
SPEAKER_04I mean, I edit a podcast that gets tens of viewers and listeners, so I understand.
SPEAKER_03But truly, like, they are doing some good fucking work.
SPEAKER_04So we open in season or episode three with this scene with West and Sierra and Amanda, and we have seen West's there, but what we did not know is that off barely off camera, they had to like chop, zoom and chop that Sierra was also there. Yes, yes, and then they do this weird, like confessional glitch.
SPEAKER_03Uh-huh. I love that.
SPEAKER_04It was like out of a horror.
SPEAKER_03It was like a whole glitch. I think we need to talk about this from now. Okay. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I do want to hear from you, knowing what we know now. Yeah. This news rock, the Bravo sphere.
SPEAKER_00Amanda and West are together.
SPEAKER_03How did you feel about him when you were shooting this scene? Was there any ink ring of a crush there?
SPEAKER_01No, this was my friend. I know exactly what people are going to think when they watch this scene.
SPEAKER_03It's just, what do you think? Because the the producer off camera, which I like love when they when they like have the producers asking the questions and you hear it, yeah. Like asked, do you have, did you have feelings for did you have an inkling of a crush for on West? And she's like, No. I know people are gonna think. What do you think? Yes, yes, she absolutely did. There's no, I'm sorry. Like they did. She did.
SPEAKER_04And I don't know who's giving her this advice, or she's not taking any advice. It sounds I know you're like in this, like, I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04On this podcast, for me, and I know you're gonna agree, you could say, West, I've always had a crush on West. He's cool, he's fun, he was there for me. I didn't think anything of it, but in the back of my mind, yeah, like I thought he was cute.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I think that if if we are saying you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't, you should at least just be honest. Then just be honest. Be honest.
SPEAKER_02Be honest. I I am being honest. So do you think she's being honest?
SPEAKER_03No. That's what I'm saying, is that she's not being honest because I think that she always, yeah, I agree. I think she had a crush on Wes. Be honest. Be honest. Like, I just think that if if you're gonna get read to filth either way, at least stand in integrity, which obviously they're not gonna do because they like she, I also just think like she has no like sense of self or character. Um, but it's like you might as well just like put it out there.
SPEAKER_04Cause it's like if if I'm kind of going through her mind, it's like, well, then people are gonna be like, I've been waiting for this moment, and I was and I was I you know, I was a snake in the grass the whole time. And it's like, okay, or like that goes more with the narrative of you can't help who you have a crush on. Yeah. By you saying like you didn't even think about it, it it it it sounds worse. Hurting your friend was just flimping. But back to in the city, it's very much like here I am with Kyle, which is so funny to me because she is talking to them and she's showing them her new potential apartment. Oh my god. And then it's very much like I'm going to sign a year lease. And then Kyle's like, Okay, well, with this separation, and she says, Well, we're not even we're not separated.
SPEAKER_03It's so weird. It's like she so the separation started with like her telling Kyle, like, just for like a month, this is really temporary, and then she signs a year-long lease and just like tells Kyle, and he's like, Well, this is a really different conversation, and she's like, No, I mean we're still married. What? You you're now we're talking about a year versus 30 days. That is a very different fucking story.
SPEAKER_04Before this West thing happened, like I didn't see them ever actually getting divorced, right?
SPEAKER_03Like they were gonna live separate lives, sure, but there was gonna always be this weird codependency of like because she, as we saw, like the fact that like Sierra was like, Oh my god, you did it on your own, like you signed the lead, like and she's like, Yeah, I like did it all on my own. I'm so proud of myself. Like, this girl has never like called a utility company in her life. She's never like her dad did it, and then Kyle did it. Yes, like she has never stood on her own two feet. Like, she's like, I like filled out the application by myself. Like, what? Like, she's never done and I guess she just doesn't work for Loverboy anymore. Yeah, so that came up and she was just like, I'm not really involved. Like, I thought she was owner of it. She was like their creative director. I think she has a stake in it, whatever that counts for. I mean, she was their creative director, but not clearly not anymore. She's just like doing her own.
SPEAKER_04It's still like her title. Title It says creative director. Of what?
SPEAKER_03Founder and CEO of what? Of what? Yeah. So it's just like she does not know how to, and I hate this phrase, but like she doesn't know how to adult. Like she's not like she has been taken care of by men her entire life, and she just it's just kind of a failure to launch, yes, quite honestly. Yes. And the second that she like was about to be independent, was about to be on her own, she's with Wes Wilson. And it's just like, girl, that is not, that is not the decision that's gonna get you where you want to go.
SPEAKER_04No, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I like kind of like don't want to talk about them anymore. I do want to talk about other people in the in the city.
SPEAKER_04I absolutely agree. Um, Kenny, get him banned.
SPEAKER_03I hate him. Get him banned. I hate this man so much. He's bad vibes. Like, I feel so bad for his sweet girlfriend.
SPEAKER_04Her crying. It was so sad. She cried three times that episode. I would cry too.
SPEAKER_05You need some minions right now, is what you need.
SPEAKER_01I'm sorry I don't have friends.
SPEAKER_05And they are a mean comment. No. Wait, I'm kidding. You're totally giving up a lot to be here.
SPEAKER_03You're being mean. I'm sorry. Like he was being, he was just like needling her about her stuff. And then she's like, I left everything behind for you, which was her choice, but like he apparently wanted her to, even though he's like mad that she like lived a full life and is moving, and he's like, You have 17 boxes. What did you expect?
SPEAKER_04And also, like you said on camera that you are unsure about this girl, like you you filmed that. I know, and you are allowing her to move across, and I it doesn't seem like she's saying that in her confessionals.
SPEAKER_03No, she's except like her confessionals are like always with him. That's what's so weird to me is that they do these joint confessionals. Like, let's get a talking head of her on her own. Correct. So basically, as as it does, like word gets back to her through Lexi, Andrea's wife. So, like, he told that to Kyle. Kyle said it to Gavin. Gavin said it, it was like a game of telephone that like basically he was unsure there was like a spark in the relationship. Yeah, and she's like, Am I an idiot? Like, I feel like am I a stupid girl? And then they like go out to dinner, and that's kind of where it ends. Is she's like, This is what I heard. And you don't we don't like see a response from him, and then it like ends right there.
SPEAKER_04And it seems like he's immediately gonna be like, Well, why is everybody talking about my relationship? Yes, I think stay out of it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so I think the tack he's gonna take is in instead of addressing what he did say that we all saw, um, and like being honest, be honest.
SPEAKER_02Um, I I am being honest.
SPEAKER_03He is like, Well, I said that to a friend, and now you guys are all talking about me and like focusing on that instead of focusing on like what the real problem is.
SPEAKER_04And his just I hate him. One thing, just like coming after, going after the king.
SPEAKER_03Going after is a is why who this show is for. Like, this is her show. I'm so sorry. Are you new here? Are you new here?
SPEAKER_04I don't the way you can make me see red, the way that you can be like, you're dead to me. I never want to talk to you again. I don't like you. If your name gets brought up 10 years from now, I'm gonna spit on the ground. Is when you rile someone up and then say Oh my god, are you okay?
SPEAKER_03Oh my god, when he wound her up. Are you activated? Let them talk. Are you paying attention?
SPEAKER_05Pay attention. Are you on glue right now? Are you silly snipping glue? What are you talking about? What are you talking about?
SPEAKER_03Getting together, being a dog.
SPEAKER_05You've seen wound up.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I am because you can't. Yeah, I am activated. You want to know why because you're fing dumb? I was so fucking mad. Dare you. Like, that was fucking crazy to watch. He is a bad guy. That was crazy. And now he was like Lindsay and all her minions, which I did love how Yvonne's husband was like, Don't you mean minions? Oh, yeah. He looked at him clocking in.
SPEAKER_04I was like, Okay.
SPEAKER_03Jumping on a sandwich. Okay.
SPEAKER_04You get down in that mud, you roll around. For one thing, that brewery, Jake and I like spent a lovely afternoon at that brewery.
SPEAKER_03It looked really fun.
SPEAKER_04So I don't know. Okay, so we When we went to New York this uh last summer, it was like we were walking around Union Square because we've never been, like we'd never been to that neighborhood before. We went to like their um uh the strand, that giant book stores there. And literally we were like, oh, it was like the sun was shining beautifully. We go into that brewery and then a torrential downpour happens. Yes. And we just like stay in the brewery and we like up pretzels and so fun. So it was so fun to see it. So fun to see that. Um anyway, side note. But uh yeah, no, Yvonne's husband's clocking in. I love it. Like, and also fuck you. And I loved, I loved you uh Lindsay's response of like, you mean friends? Yeah, that's just what friends do.
SPEAKER_03That's what friends are, like, you don't always lose. Yeah, correct. Because you're a sociopath. Yeah, because you are not a fucking likable guy, which you're proving it. I also just like I don't want to see a man antagonizing and going after a woman. Like, I don't want to see a man fighting with a woman. Like, that is the biggest fucking ick I could ever see in my life. Like, you are a disrespectful, garbage ass piece of shit. This show isn't about you. It's also not for you. Do you know who the fan base is?
SPEAKER_04That's what I'm like. I want to know, are we hearing anything about him in the Bravo fan base? Or is this show like, is it is Summerhouse just like swallowing up everything else?
SPEAKER_03I feel like Summerhouse is swallowing up everything else because even when people are talking about this episode, they're talking about Amanda and the confessional. Oh no. So, like, Kenny is not getting enough hate. Like, I want him to be getting more hate. It's good. He's a good villain. He is a good villain. Like, he has definitely clocked in. Um, and I don't know, I think it's gonna be interesting. This relationship is not going to last. No. So like they're gonna break up and she's gonna stay on the show, which like I kind of would love.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, she's great. Um I do want her to stop crying. Like, her crying is like it reminds me of like my daughter's fake crying, like when she doesn't get like her fourth pop-tart of the day.
SPEAKER_03She's like, am I? I just wanna be like a stupid girl. What do you mean? I have I have bad news for you, honey. I have some bad news for you. Oh my god. It's not looking good.
SPEAKER_04But I would try to marry him to get that apartment.
SPEAKER_03Why was that apartment's gonna be like? Because he's a fucking venture capitalist, which just goes to show he's a bad person. He's evil.
SPEAKER_04Um, what else from that? Lindsay and Danielle. Bringing up a seven-year-old hand job is wild.
SPEAKER_03It was so funny. I don't care because you know my hatred for Danielle is deep. It courses through my veins. Whatever Lindsay wants to bring up, I'm like, yeah, cosign check. I'm like, I don't know, maybe like well. So here's what's funny. Here's what's so funny about that is that Danielle's like, did I do that? Because I don't think I did. And then in the confessional, is so sure she's like, no, I didn't do that. And then also like went to her Instagram stories and was like, just to be clear, it never happened. It was always untrue and it never happened. And then Lindsay was like, Lindsay responded in her Instagram story and was like, roll the tape, which I like fucking loved. Because like it definitely like happened. I don't know if it was OTP, I think it was like maybe an OTP.
SPEAKER_04I just wish she would have just instead of been like, it's not true, just mean like it was so long ago. Yeah, it was so long ago.
SPEAKER_03But I just think like I think Danielle just sucks.
SPEAKER_04And it's a good example of like her not being a good friend, and that this is a exactly a pattern, and I think that's what Lindsay was trying to show.
SPEAKER_03It's like every single season, like things have come out, or I've seen things where I've been like, what the fuck? Like, that is crazy. That's not what a friend does. And Danielle's like, but I've also been like your biggest hype girl, but it's only when Lindsay's down and out, like that's when she's her biggest hype girl.
SPEAKER_04She is, it's so funny to me, and this was a couple seasons ago, how she like came Danielle came after Paige and how mean she is in her confessional.
SPEAKER_03And Danielle's a bitch in her confessional.
SPEAKER_04Danielle is such, and that's what it's like, bitch. Sorry that like Paige's hilarious and I love Paige's like, no, my confessionals are great, they're hilarious.
SPEAKER_03Well, people like Paige and you suck. I think that's the difference. I mean because like you're a bitch.
SPEAKER_04Like you're nobody fucking likes you. I mean, you have a boring story to your way to the top of reality TV.
SPEAKER_03I just need her, I do not want her on season two, but I think she secured it because she's pregnant. Oh, 100%. Yeah, so I think she'll be on her that this guy's baby. Yeah, Owen. He is just a really strange-looking guy. I mean, he's with her, so best of fucking luck to you.
SPEAKER_04Some a little more cooking. Looks a little doughy. He looks underbaked.
SPEAKER_03Um, yeah, I think that was pretty much it from In the City, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I'm I'm really enjoying it.
SPEAKER_03I am really haven't seen though is Katie DeLuca. Yeah, I thought she was gonna be in it. And she's like in the cast photos. She is in the cast photos. So, like, I don't know if they're popping her in at some point, I would assume. But she's become this like mythical like specter that we just like speak of. And like everybody is like, who is this person? But we haven't seen her yet. So three episodes in, that's crazy. They just do different editing and like styles with the summer house and in the city where they like pants. Remove people. I mean, they like cut out Emerald like halfway through last season, just like edited him out. Poor guy. Um, okay, well, I think that is everything for this week. Um, if you haven't yet, be sure to listen to our flyover deep dive where we recap and talk about the Summer House Um reunion part two. Um, but otherwise, have a great week.
SPEAKER_04Have a great week. We'll see ya next week. All right, thanks everybody. Bye bye.
SPEAKER_03You only have 18 summers, mama. You only have 18 summers, mama.