How to Actually Break Into a Marine Conservation Career with "Conservation Queen" Camille Lasbleiz

Ep 007: What does it actually look like to build a career in marine conservation? In this episode, I sit down with Camille Lasbleiz (aka the Conservation Queen) on Gili Air, Indonesia, after we randomly realized on Instagram that we were two islands away from each other. (The universe really does deliver.)

Camille's story is so good. She went from wanting to be a dolphin trainer as a kid, to working with primates in the jungle, to a five-month "visa run" in Panama that turned her into a divemaster, to working as a snorkel guide in the Maldives. Now she's running 1:1 career mentoring calls and leading coral restoration trips in Indonesia. How's that for a cool and crazy career path?!

We get into: 

- how to actually break into marine conservation (without a marine biology PhD)

- why "be realistic" is the worst advice anyone ever gave us 

-how non-science backgrounds can be a superpower in this field

- why community-led conservation is the model

- what's giving us hope for the ocean right now

...and so much more.

If you've ever felt called to ocean work but had no idea where to start, this one's for you.

EPISODE SHOW NOTES (click for all the links!)

Camille's Instagram - @camille.lasbleiz

Check out Camille's website

Book a 1-on-1 career mentoring call with Camille

Join a marine conservation trip with Camille

Looking to break into the world of marine conservation, but don’t know where to start? I’ve got you! Download my free resource, the Aspiring Marine Conservationist’s toolkit at caseysnook.com/toolkit and start making waves in your career today 🌊

Podcast website

Casey's Instagram - @caseysnook_

Podcast Instagram - @thisismarineconservation

Say hello! Contact Casey here.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:01

Never give up. That's probably the most important thing you can do. And there's a lot of reasons to give up everything. But there's also as many reasons, or maybe more reasons, to keep going and not give up.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

This is Marine Conservation, the podcast where we talk ocean protection, science, activism, and everything that makes our watering world so implicit. I'm your host, Keith. I'm a marine scientist, environmental optimist, and die-hard ocean nerd who's dedicating my career to the health of our oceans and just my job, and I'm here to share that love with you. Join me and my guests as we chat All Things Ocean and share the science, stories, and solutions that keep it thriving. Whether you're a marine professional or you dream of becoming one, or you simply just look at the ocean and want to learn how you can make a difference, you're in the right place. Ready? Grab your pin and let's dive in. My guest today is a feisty force of nature who is dedicated to making marine conservation more accessible for everyone. Camila's play is an award-winning conservationist, and we just happen to be in the same little corner of the world on the Ghillie Islands at the same time, and I thought I would have to interview her. Her current undertakings are educational content on social media as well as one-on-one career advice for people wanting to work in marine conservation as well as hosting marine conservation trips. I'm so grateful I got to have this conversation with her in person, no less. So please enjoy and Camille, welcome to This Is Marine Conservation.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Today I'm ready by Camille Musmig, aka the conservation queen, who you may have seen on Stickrow, that's actually coming by.

SPEAKER_04 1:57

And it's just an awesome coincidence that we happen to be in the same world at the same time. So as we are coming to you now, we are on Ghili Eres, which is one of three Gilly Islands in Indonesia off the northwest coast of Swambook.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

And we're both here for a couple months. And I just thought it would be a shame if we didn't leave. So here we are. Welcome. Thank you so much for joining. This is really cool. So just feel about your experience working in marine conservation, how you got started, what your plans are for the present and the future. So yeah, welcome. Thank you for having me. So you're here now for two months, you said? Yeah, almost two months. I saw. And tell me a little bit about what you're doing then. Um, so right now, maybe not the most interesting thing, but I usually work on my laptop and to develop my social media uh where I'm sharing a lot of advice, career advice sometimes working on considerations. Um so I'm developing all of this, uh working on the career guidance and offering as well as I mean recently, uh guiding some trips as well, like developing all those things. I also want to start posting on YouTube again. I was posting like a few years ago, but it takes so much time.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

But I really like, I really enjoy watching YouTube myself. So uh I'm really watching make YouTube videos again. So I was also working on like some projects on YouTube, trying to figure out what I'm gonna do, how and stuff. Also getting in contact with some green conservation projects that are from Guinea Area, uh, because there are several ones on the Guinea Islands. Uh so networking, making friends, maybe we can collaborate on some projects in work. Yeah, yeah, that's that.

SPEAKER_04 3:57

The Ghillies are a really awesome place for Larry Consumicu. That's one of the reasons I came here in the first place. So I came to do my open water, and I remember researching like where I wanted to go, what part of the world, but also what that chocolate would also go to eat. And I was specifically looking for one that had conservation initiatives and like different ends that they reiterate for the ocean, and that's why I come in here. It's like it seems that so much people stuff is happening with the marine conservation here. So it's kind of a special little place to be.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

I think in Indonesia in general, there's like a lot of marine conservation initiatives. Um and on the ghilies, which are like really small islands, on each ghile, I think there's like several marine conservation bridges. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:37

So it's great. That's awesome. Awesome for the money conservation. So let's rewind a little bit. So did you always know that you wanted to work in marine conservation? Wildlife conservation, like how did you kind of begin to know that that was your calling?

SPEAKER_03 4:55

Uh sorry. Long story. Because basically I started out by working in wildlife conservation, so garrusteral animals. Then when I was the kids, uh somebody I knew wanted to work with animals. I just didn't really know like how or uh which species some zombies.

SPEAKER_04 5:14

Kids are like, I wanna be a marine biologist when I uh but it it's almost like as crazy as saying like I want to be an astronaut with those careers that your parents were like, yeah, yeah, I think we did three and we'll see what actually happens.

SPEAKER_03 5:28

Then you wanted to do it. To be honest, I didn't really know that like my dream was not properly being a marine biologist, it was just like working with animals because um my parents were bringing me to the zoo, for example. And at first I wanted to be like a dolphin trainer because I saw the shows. Oh my god, where is like, yeah, because I say this.

SPEAKER_04 5:49

I went to SeaWorld, which I know now it's very like frowned upon, like all the things they do there. But I was a little kid, I was like, I don't know, 10. And I went to SeaWorld.

SPEAKER_03 5:59

I want to work with orcas, cooler. You just see the caregivers being like besties with the dolphins for the orcas and they're like circing their back and crockelsing them out of the water. And I was like, this isn't amazing. It's like the besties with animals, like let's go. Um, so I wanted to do this. Then I saw the coveratory called Black Fish, yeah, and I was like, okay, I don't want to do this anymore. But then back to the starting point, like, what am I gonna do? So um I think that's when I kind of like stopped thinking about working with marine animals because in my head the only thing I could see as like an option was like zoos and aquariums. Sure. And as I saw with the document free that it was not good for especially marine mammals, especially civisians, to be like held captive. I was like, okay, just like give up on this, and I have to find something else. So I had like different ideas. I was one time I told my mom, okay, I want to be a diver and like discover new species. That's not a job. That's okay, okay. Go for it. Sure, okay, well, like I mean, usually you discover new species like not on purpose, or it's like it's not your proper like job title, like discover whatever.

SPEAKER_04 7:13

Um sign up for that.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

Sounds pretty cool. And I remember I was doing so many um like uh career quiz online uh when I was a kid, and it was like, uh do you prefer to be outdoor or inside, blah blah. And then in the end, it was always giving me like either oceanographer or like zoologist or stuff like this, but then it was always just like research or animal caregiver, and I was like, okay, yeah, but I don't want to work in a zoo, I want to work with animals and their natural habitat, but I don't want to do research, so what am I gonna do?

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Like, there's no funny.

SPEAKER_03 7:49

And then one day, uh, so I was kind of deciding to be like a zookeeper, and then one day my mom, uh one of her colleagues, just like super random. My mom is an English teacher, so there's like no reason why she would know somebody like this. But uh her colleague who was also the teacher, her sister, was working in a Chimpanzee recipe center in Guinea in Africa. That was like crazy, like destiny. Like, how could you know somebody the dusty?

SPEAKER_04 8:18

Sometimes I think the universe will just give us what we mean when the time is right and there's some magic to that.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

Yeah, I agree. So my mom was like, okay, maybe this could be of interest to Kimbel. So she invited her over to our house when she was back from the house. And my mom told me afterwards that she told this woman to like really tell me all the reality of the field. Like, tell me it's super hard, it's like yeah, full of mosquitoes, full of bugs, blah blah blah, you know, like all the not glamorous reality. Because I don't think my mom wanted to like uh demotivate me, but I think she just wanted me to know for me about what it was not me. Also, I think she would rather have me like work in my home town and like see me all the time. So mom said like that. And that's that so this woman she just told me everything about team benzies, she should meet working right doing in the risky center. And then I was like, okay, this is amazing because you still have that like privileged relationship with the wild animal. Like you're you're not cuddling it or whatever, because it's rehabilitation and you have to interact as least as possible with the animal, but you still have the vet, for example, uh like a privileged relationship with an animal, and you're working in the wild and their natural habitat and the field, and you're helping cultivation with just like uh zoom, you know. Um sound like okay, I want to do this with chimpanzees, because that was the example I had. I was like, okay, I want to work with chimpanzees. And then I started learning a lot about primates, spent hours online. Uh I would learn lots of stuff about animals online before scrolling our likes away. That's the thing that I got in. Um, and so I started learning about primates. I was like, okay, I want to work with parties because I was just so happy that it felt like my niche, my species. Yeah. Because I felt like I had to choose something. Uh so then I just thought that I would want to spend the rest of my life in the jungle working with monkeys. So I did my bachelor in biology, and then I did my master's in pragmatic conservation. Then I started working in rescue centers in the jungle with monkeys, which was amazing. But then deep in the jungle, I started missing the ocean for some reason. I I kind of had forgotten that I wanted to be like a Dalton Trainer and diver. So I was like, where is this coming from? Like, where all of a sudden do I miss the ocean? So I started um getting closer to the ocean. And uh then I ended up doing my dive certifications because I had never dived before. Okay, I had snorkeled a few times, but not that much. And I met in in a rescue center in the jungle um girl who was um dive instructor, and she was like, Camille, you should try diving. Like I'm sure you would love it and stuff. And I'm like, okay, what I don't think where did you do your back? I did it in Panama because at the time I was working in the rescue center in Costa Rica. I was like Banislaw mama, and then I just did my visa run in Panama, so I was supposed to stay for like five days, and I ended up staying five months doing up to my diet master. It's fine. I went from my low minor to dive master, it was not uh planned at all. And I fell in love with uh the ocean with diving, and I was uh snorkeling or diving every day and stuff for you, but it's the horror. Yep. That's like the closest to Ghost Larry Cast. That's where I went for my desire. And I just walked past the dive center. I was like, Do you guys take volunteers for like four days? And he was like, Yes. Super random as well. Um, and then in the end I stayed for five months. Then I started transitioning from terrestrial conservation to moon conservation. Before my dive, my dust vacations I had volunteered a little bit with sea turtles in the rescue center. Then when I went back home, I started working with seals because I freaking love seals. Um but I gave up on seal as well when I saw the Daphne 3.

SPEAKER_02 12:55

Very nice.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

Uh so I worked with seals in the rescue centers in France and Poland. So I started slowly transitioning. And then I uh went to the Montes to work in this novel guide. Because I also love ecotourism more and more, and I think it's such a powerful tool for conservation. Because then you get to some conservation, plus educate people, plus let them experience nature firsthand, and then create more and more ambassadors and activists and future conservationists with hundreds of staff.

SPEAKER_04 13:25

I told you my my whole kind of marine conservation origin story came from cattle into the guy but to do my water, and then I started uh diving a little bit more, and that literally changed my whole life. I was like, this is not only my new favorite coffee forever, but it's gonna be my career.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 13:42

And people are gauged by fantastic travel experiences, like they get to see animals in the wild, and they they just realize how fantastic they are, and that we should be doing something we can serve them, and you got to be a part of that. So cool that that was your job, and yeah, educating people and also the fun thing is super important too. Like Reddow's rescue centers and things to have enough money to do what they do. They need people to come and spend their tourism and dollars at those places. Thanks, I think. Let's talk a bit more about your time in Walby. So, was that a place that you always wanted to go? You were telling me about the job board that you found the job on.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

But tell us how that started. So, as just for example, when I met this woman that was a diet detector, so it was in Ecuador, uh, and it was I think 2021, just after COVID. And at that time, I don't know, I had in my head that it would be so cool to be like a snorkel guide on a tropical islands, that I had no idea how it was worked. Because even I asked that that woman who was a diet instructor and was like, she will know how it works to become a snorkel guide, and she was like, I don't know, it's not really a thing. You you're more like a diabet or like dive instructor or free daddy instructor. That I don't know why I had this in my net because I was not even like snorkeling that much. My life I've had probably tried the less than 10 times. I just reinlucted. And then I started doing my divers certifications, and then at some point I just decided after the whole seal era, I just decided that I wanted to work in the Maldives. I think because I saw like it was maybe on Instagram and I was uh I saw like a post of um friend of mine who works in conservation, and then I saw a comment from a friend of hers that I didn't know. So I looked her on her profile and she was a marine biologist in the Maldives. I think that's how they saw it. I was like, okay, that's something that is possible, apparently. So that's pretty cool. So I reached out to her and then I went on LinkedIn, like looking at people who were also running as a marine biologist in Maldives, because that's what the initial plan, not just normal guys. And then they started telling me, like, oh yeah, because I really had this idea that you had to be like super crazy qualified because it's a luxury destination. But then they started telling me, oh yeah, you are qualified to get a job, you don't even have to be your dive master like I was. And speaking different languages also really helped in ecosystem. Yes. One of the most important things. So I started looking up on the job board, as I said that I showed you earlier. Um, it's called job Maldives. Pretty straightforward. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:19

And that much sooner.

SPEAKER_03 16:24

Or a marine biologist. There are lots of marine biologists' jobs. Um, so I just started applying to jobs, and then eventually one of them offered me a job, and it was snorkel guide, not marine biologists. I was like, okay, that's a good start. Also, it's just one of those destinations where you're like, if you like diving, you're like, oh, it would be so cool to go one time with my life. Yeah. But it's so expensive. And I got to go there and be paid rather than paying crazy amounts of money to like small. So I went there and yeah. Then you're working at a resort, and I met some people who were working as a marine biologist there who were saying that they didn't really like it because they were hardcore researchers or they really wanted to do research. And it's not always like super gene science or like real research. Sometimes it's just like a bit of hands-on power restoration, and um the guests are helping, or like doing excursion guiding as well to educate people, and that's not really what they wanted to do. But to me, that sounds like a great job, like a bit of car restoration, a bit of education and snorkeling and guiding and presentations at the bar during the room and stuff. I think you need to have the right expectations when you come there. If you really want to do like strict research, uh then maybe a job in a resort in the Montbeaks is not the best. Um, but if you like hands-on work, education and eco-tourism and stuff like this, then it can make a choice. And it's also good for entry-level physicians, surprisingly. And then you get paid also to work in conservation or in tourism, which is good. It's a good way to fund them afterwards, like the rest of the period, if you need to volunteer. It's really cool that you're actually able to save money working.

SPEAKER_04 18:06

Oh, yeah, I mean it's not a place that saving money brings to mind.

SPEAKER_03 18:11

But like you think the Maldives, you think like fancy bubble water bubble is not spending thousands of dollars to have technicians. I mean, if you're a guest, yeah, that's what happens. Yeah. Uh but if you're a part of the staff, already you get accommodation and food. So it's not fancy as like a water vanilla, but it's accommodation and food that you don't have to spend money on.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:31

And then you get a salary and you're basically stuck on a tiny island, which is the resort, so there's not much to spend your money on. And then you can actually save money.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

That's really funny. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:44

I think it's really cool what you were saying about like you didn't know these jobs existed until you talked to somebody who was like, oh, this is what I do, I'll tell you all about it, or look on this job board that you didn't know existed, and hear all of the listings of different things that are options. I know what you mean when you're talking about like you want to do something related to it in marine conservation or something related to wildlife conservation, but you just don't know what because you only see a few different examples of what's what you see like your options are you can work at a zoo or you can be jingled, or you know, like there's not too many things that you see.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

I think especially like our childhood sounds like you have a similar beginning where you're like, oh, this is so cool, I want to do this, but then you you know you watch the documentary, you're like, oh, I can't do this, it's it doesn't all world, but I don't know what else to do.

SPEAKER_03 19:32

But how to see examples.

SPEAKER_04 19:34

And I think nowadays with social media, yeah, it can be like a difficult thing, but also it's really awesome because people can just share their lives and you know, who knows what might go value, what you might see online, and then you see somebody who's working in the Maldives or working with and doing really cool jobs that you have no idea existed, and you're like, oh baby, I could do that too. So I just think it's hard to dream of becoming something that you've never seen an exam. And that the more examples we see, the more we realize how many options are out there. And it's kind of like the point on this podcast, too. Interviewing different people have done really different cool things in marine contribution and showing people that if you can dream it, you can probably figure out a way to do that. Like it's whatever it is, it's possible that this is the field you want to work in. It's not easy, but there's so many options and activities, and a lot of them you have to make yourself, and that's okay, but it's a lot of self. A lot of possibility to really say.

SPEAKER_03 20:32

The reason why I started sharing what I'm doing also for me, yeah, because when I was a kid, I had like all those dreams that I I thought it was not like a thing, or I had no idea like how it would be possible. Um and I never made so I'm gonna even believe it. You were saying it was either like zoo or research, and I was like, I don't like any of those that I want to do something in this field.

SPEAKER_04 20:54

Like, what can I for me it was biology.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

So my dad is an environmental biologist and he's brilliant in your blocks when he does, and I've always admired his career. But I saw him work as a biologist, and then when I was in college, I actually engaged for Debus.

SPEAKER_04 21:08

Yeah, and I got to see a bit more of like the day-to-day stuff that he does as a biologist, and I was like, I don't think I want to be a biologist. Yeah, you're like, but what else is there? I want to do marine, you think biologists? And I was like, I don't think I want to be a biologist. And it took a long time for me to come to conservation. Once I've discovered conservation as a field, I'd say this is way better for me because it's super interdisciplinary.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

It's like, yeah, education and tourism and science, but also social science. Maybe some oceanography, like it's super interdisciplinary and requires a mold-size brain, it requires like maybe some travel. It could be kind of anything you want it to be, as long as anything, yeah. As long as you are, in fact, conserving something.

SPEAKER_04 21:52

And I was like, this is it, this is so much like I thought that marine biology was all that there was as an option, and then realized, oh, yeah, well, actually, there's uh there's no ah that was that was a great thing for me.

SPEAKER_03 22:03

Yeah, but I feel like a lot of people still think that the only way to work in conservation is research. A lot of times when I post uh about this on Instagram, for example, and I'm like, um, nonscience jobs for conservation, people are like freaking out in the comments, and I'm like, you guys, we need everybody, like it's yeah, interdisciplinary, as you're saying, and we need every kind of skills. And even if your job is not like conservation is not included in the title, you can just bring conservation in your job. Like when I was a snow guide, it's not supposed to be a marine conservation job, but I was just taking the initiative to create dedicational resources to like educate as much as I could the people on the boat. I had those rules on the boat, like not allowed to touch any. Anything, not allowed to chase marine life or whatever. And I was like, if you are not respecting the rules, you are dap on the boat. Luckily, the dive center was letting me do this because some places are more about like all about business and money, and the guests came that lucky they understood that very luck was more important. Yes. I could also do some cleanups and presentations at the bar uh after resolve and stuff. So you can also just bring some conservation into your your job. Even if it's just like um you're a designer and you try to reduce your plastic use and it's gonna help the environment as well. You don't have to be like a proc marine biologist or conservationist to help conservation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:35

I think you can have many, many different professional backgrounds and transition into conservation if that's what you want to do. Because so many different types of skills and expertise expertise is that word are needed. Like, you know, conservation needs finest professionals, it means marketers, it needs graphic designers for like some books for charities, it needs social media people, and it needs like event planners and like I could go on and on.

SPEAKER_03 24:08

Like even if you're like an actor, you can just use your fame to talk about conservation profit and get given them more visibility. And you don't even have to like transfer because you can definitely, I believe that any background can be a school, or at least almost. And you can definitely transfer, just identify your skills and transfer them to marine conservation, but you can also just do the same job, but in a different context. Like, for example, in Antarctica, it's a super remote place. So they have like all those research villages, and then you need everybody. You don't only need scientists, you need like a baker, you need a cook, you need a nurse, you need a doctor, you need I don't know, maybe a fitness uh trainer or whatever. Kid yourself. You can literally be like a cook and go work in Antarctica.

SPEAKER_04 24:56

So fitness trainer on self-roll. So cool.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:02

No, I love that. A conservation, that's one of the reasons why I love the field so much because it's so intradisciplinary. It's one of the only fields I think like if you want to be, I don't know, an accountant or something, you have to study all of the things that an accountant in a job tradition does. If you want to be a conservationist, you can take the things that you already know and just put them towards that thoughts of helping the environment. It's like if you need to do something to help the environment, you need a conservationist. Yeah, it's it's it might be easier than you think if you want to work in skill. You probably already have what it takes to get started.

SPEAKER_03 25:41

100%. That's also, I think the confusion is that the word conservationist to me it kind of means everything and nothing at the same time. Because it's not like a proper job title. It's more like you help ocean or nature conservation, so you look like you're a conservationist, but it can take so many different forms and positions. It describes the end goal and not what you do day to day.

SPEAKER_04 26:07

So, like if you are a painter, painter implies that all day you sit at your easel and you're painting. And conservationists could mean also you're a painter, but you use your beautiful paintings of whale shut or whatever, yeah, and you auction them off to give to a cherry or something. It doesn't describe what you actually do day-to-day, which is cool because it can mean anything, but it can be a bit tricky because it could mean nothing. Or it can mean like I have absolutely no idea.

SPEAKER_03 26:38

So yeah, I agree. Yeah, also the fact that you have a different background, maybe had like a whole career beforehand and now you're thinking about transitioning. Very often we think that this would be a disadvantage, but it can actually be a strength because a lot of other people who would apply to jobs all have the same CV, like they study biology, maybe they all have like a master's in the same field, and they did volunteering, blah blah blah. But if you come with other skills, this is gonna make you stand out. It can be positive, it can be negative, but it's also up to you, I think, to make it like a positive thing and to just know how to sell your skills and be like, hey, I know this, so I can help your project with this thing that nobody else can help with because they don't have the skill. Um, and sometimes it's also how you get like it's super enriching because people can get new ideas and new points of use because they come from a different background. Things that other biologists who work in this field or scientists never have thought about because we're all like learning the same at school and stuff. Yeah. So it's actually a strength to be different. It needs all kinds.

SPEAKER_04 27:50

Hey, I mean it's true in nature too, like a diverse ecosystem is a really strong one.

SPEAKER_03 27:55

So a diverse people working on conservation issues is gonna be hopefully really successful. I think actually conservation is like a little ecosystem, and everybody has their own little role, and we need everybody like we don't only need sea cucongers on the reefs, like the corals, we need everybody like all the other no.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

Yeah. Yeah, real dude. Really?

SPEAKER_03 28:21

So how long were you in the Maldives? For a yeah. And were there any other notable stories when we're in turn there? Something I can imagine.

SPEAKER_04 28:32

People just dream about going to a tropical place, working in the water. Like, what were your favorite memories about that?

SPEAKER_03 28:39

Um, I think my favorite parts were that it's just like so much megafauna. So we had in our asshole, we had two manta seasons. So almost half of the year I was guiding Manta Ray excursions, which was amazing. That also really taught me to stand my ground and that it was okay to scream on the guests. It's not okay for every dive center, but likely my manager and my dive center were like more onto like protecting marine life than like being the guest is the king. Because you can do like the most tower three thing beforehand. As soon as they see the animal, they're gonna forget every single thing you said. Especially if they have like a goggle in their hands, then they're just gonna be like, I don't care anymore. I just want my video and I they're just gonna start cheating the whatever. So yeah, I learned that I could just shout at the kids. Um also sometimes it was very frustrating because there were other boats from other resorts or other tourbaders that were not respecting the rules. So, because you can do ecotourism and you can have like the best briefing and be the most ethical on your boat if the 10 other boats around are to make shit still gonna affect the animal. But at least the positive side is that the people, when they were in the water and they would see those other tour creators doing unethical stuff, they would understand why I was being annoying during my briefing and being like, don't do this, don't do that, stay calm, don't chase the animal, don't scream, uh, stay flat at the surface, whatever our goal to not bother the mountain rays. And they would come back on the boat and be like, oh Camille, now we understand why you said that we should not jump in the water, or we understand why we should not chase the mountain ray. I was like, okay, this is a positive side because they were shown, by example, that this is a bad thing and they saw the direct consequence. But yeah, to come back on like the positive side, mountor rays, lots of sharks everywhere as well. I love them, especially black separate sharks, but not so many. Uh I guided lots of nice snow things as well, where we got lots of sharks. Uh also told me how to like handle reproof guests surrounded by sharks, because sharks are not the monsters and land eaters that we were taught to fear like when we were kids. But it's still wild animals, so they are still a risk, especially that it's a predator. So it was also good on like a professional and personal level to gain like confidence and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

So not many people can say that they can handle a group of tourists around it by sharks.

SPEAKER_03 31:14

Well, it depends on what kind of sharks. Like if you put me in the middle of tidy sharks, I cannot assure the safety of my guests. But like with reef sharks that are less dangerous, basically, uh, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:30

The reef sharks here are adorable in the ghillies, and we call them like the puppy dogs of the sea. The games. Yeah. The white tips. And there are a few, there's some black tips, but the white tips are more cool than that.

SPEAKER_05 31:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:44

So one of the dime masters at the dive shop where I am on gilly teeth always jokes, you know, someone will be like, Oh, their sharks should have your friend, and he's like, No, no, they are vegetarians. Like, because yeah, they're they're probably fish, obviously, but they are so on less. They're just as much of a predator as a dog is. Like they have the teeth and the bodies for eating meat. Yes, but they they could bite you.

unknown 32:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:11

So you really could like they're just little potatoes now, they're actually relaxing, being cute. Like they're little flocks, basically.

SPEAKER_03 32:19

I think it really depends on each species of shark. Because yeah, like white tape sharks, it's just super harmless. You say they could bite you, honestly. Like, I think you would really have to harass them to site you. Yeah. Because they're basically just like nothing in a pile like sharks. Um, black to brave sharks, I'm a bit more cautious because they can be a bit more inquisitive and curious stuff, especially pregnant mad ones, according to my experience with monks. But then, like, I would be less confident if it was like a bigger shark. Because basically, small sharks that are eating fish were like so big compared to their prey that it's not as risky as like a shark that eats sea lions, which are the same size as we are. Um, but I think even some people are diving or free diving with like great white sharks instead. So I think it's just a matter of like knowing the behavior and your behavior and their behavior and knowing how absent will coexist. And it's just there's things you shouldn't do. Same as with a dog, like you're not gonna pet a dog you don't know. If a stray dog is like growling at you, there's like turning behaviors to have, so it's exactly the same.

SPEAKER_02 33:31

A lot of that's common sense, which some people don't know.

SPEAKER_04 33:36

Did you ever have any issues? Like, did anyone put themselves in danger that you had to deal with in the morning?

SPEAKER_03 33:43

I think sometimes people would just want to go snorkeling or diving and they didn't know how to swim. So he had to explain them in a gentle way that this is not okay, like 16 words. Otherwise, with sharks, I think most of the time people would come to snorkel with the sharks, especially at night. They would already be a bit like they would be excited, but at the same time a little bit worried. So they would not really try to touch the shark or like chase the shark. But sometimes they would get scared and then forget the right big gear because for example with the like the prechars, it's important that you keep eye contact. Basically, that you act as a predator. Because if you start moving a lot, like splashing with your fins at the surface, it feels like a fish that is injured, so it feels like a prey. And people would like sometimes get scared and put their head out of the water and be like, oh my god, there's a shark. And I'm like, Yeah, guys, there's a shark, so keep eye contact. There's something scary. If you close your eyes, it's still there. So you have to like you don't have choice, you cannot escape the situation, so you have to stay calm, keep eye contact. So sometimes, for example, if there was a super inquisitive shark, that would it happen like a few times that um a shark would kind of circle us, which is exactly in the movies like Joe's, where people get super scared because they're like, oh my god, this is like a predatory behavior. It's actually just an inquisitive behavior to just scan what is going on. So they're wondering, is this something I see this? Is this food? What is it? So sometimes I will just throw myself in front of the roof and keep them behind me and just like follow the shark and keep eye contact. You also learn by doing with explorates and stuff. And yeah, also depending on how you react with the stressful situations. Like those people who just close their eyes and like look at the surface and be like, ah, something is scary down there. Yeah, then they keep looking. Otherwise, it was there was no real like danger sitting. Because black tips are so very small sharks. So I would just make sure everything was fine. I would like be in front of the group that the sharks never tried. You would think that. Yeah. So when was it that you were in the Maldives? So I was around June 2024 to June. Oh, it's bringing me for last year. Yeah, nice. Okay. And then what have you been doing since? Yeah, you're mostly crowded. So I went back to Farrells where I'm from because when I was in the Maldives, that's where my when my social media started bringing taking off. And it was really great. But at the same time, I was feeling a bit frustrated that I didn't have enough time to bring work on my social media. So when my contract finished, I decided okay, I'm gonna use some time to really focus on social media and try to grow it. Because there was a big interest, getting advice on how to work in marine conservation, for example. So, like, okay, I'm gonna spend more time doing this. Oh, I also went to Ecuador to guide my first trip. Oh, that's with uh some of my followers. We went to um sea turtle conservation project in Ecuador, it was really cool. We learned a lot about sea turtle conservation, we were patrolling the beach and relocating some nests and stuff. So they were also doing some reforestation, so it was kind of like half of marine terrestrial, so it was interesting. Then I also took advantage of being in Ecuador for the second time in my life to go to the Galapagos, which was the best streak of my entire life, because I'm obsessed with seals and there is just full of sea lions everywhere, so it's a few might leave place.

SPEAKER_04 37:31

I don't think any diver out there does not want to go to the wild because Marie Mai is just it's shouldn't be absolutely natural.

SPEAKER_03 37:40

It is someday I'll get there. Honestly, it's just crazy because it feels like in a dream. Because you know, like when you're dreaming of going, I don't know, in the jungle, you're just imagining that it's gonna be full of animals. Actually, you get there, it just feels empty because all the animals are hiding, or uh you just hear a lot of noise, but you don't see anything. And then you just get to the Galapagos and it's just like wildlife everywhere. Because you want to go to the Galapagos for marijuana, lifetime movies, sea lions. And I thought it would maybe be hard to see them that you would have to go on excursions to see them aside. You just arrive at the airports, we walk for like 10 minutes, and it's just like sea lions on the crossroads, and then there's like a lifetime movie flying by, and then there's like baby marijuana's everywhere on the floor, and you're like, what is going on? Like, where am I? Where am I? You don't even need to take a cruiserware. Because that's also why it's not as expensive as you think it is. Really? That's why I didn't go the first time because I thought we would have to take a cruise and spend like five thousand dollars for a week. Yeah, and I actually stayed for two weeks. My accommodation was like between eight and twelve dollars a day. Whoa, I didn't take cruise, you don't need to. And then the food was like between five and six dollars a day if you eat or not a day for a meal if you eat local food, so basically just rice, beans, and uh vegetables. And then I personally prefer snorkeling now to diving, so you can do a lot of snorkeling just for free, just from some spots where you just walk there, and then you can smoke for free and snorkel with like sea lines for any bonus and stuff. And diving is more expensive, but for two dives, I paid like $200 with all the gear included and gondology, so it's okay. So yeah, it was definitely way cheaper than I thought. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 39:36

That is so great to hear because I think a lot of people think that they will never ever be able to afford to go to someplace like the.

SPEAKER_03 39:44

Same with the Mali's, like for example, you don't have to go to the extensive resort. You can go to a local island, and so you just land in Mali, which is the Abu City and island at the same time, and then you take a ferry, which I don't know how much it's gonna be, maybe it's gonna be like 30 bucks to go to another island. Then you stay in a local homsei, and it's probably gonna cost you like uh 15 dollars a night. And then you eat a local meal that's gonna be like fried rice or fried noodles, and it's gonna cost like four dollars. So it's it's just that what you see on TV or online is always the super luxurious things. That's if you if you just stay with like local homestayle and stuff, it's actually screeching real. I mean, that's why I'm staying here and like you have a pretty like basic but really nice place.

SPEAKER_04 40:35

So it's not that expensive. I mean, it's really great to know, but especially for wildlife lovers that want to go to places like small beings that are famous for its wildlife, but also famous for being expensive, that you can do it on a budget.

SPEAKER_03 40:48

Yeah, okay. Just I think you just need to do a little bit of research beforehand. Um, if you want to budget, because for example, for the Galapagos, there are some fees you cannot cut off. Yeah. Uh like the entrance to the Galapagos Nature Park, it's now $200. So this you have to pay. Yeah. And also you have to take a flight from the mainland to the Galapagos. This you have to know, because a few months ago, I think, it was like $100 for the entrance fee. Now it's $200. So things like this, it's a great donation because it's that's also why the Galapagos is so freaking amazing, even so well preserved. Yeah. I was even looking a few years ago at rescue centers in Galapagos to volunteer there, but there are none because it's just so well preserved that they don't need rescue centers. And I was like a bit disappointed in the beginning because I was like, oh no, I cannot volunteer there and stuff with it. And then I was like, wait, that's actually pretty amazing that they don't need rescue centers.

SPEAKER_04 41:48

It's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 41:49

This trip that you ran in Ecuador, how did you organize it? Like, what was the process to make that happen and what was it like? So this you guys did some volunteering together, like as a period. Yeah, so basically last year I was contacted by Word Packers. For those who don't know, it's a company that the original goal is to make travel more accessible by putting in contact with like, for example, hostels or stuff like this, where you can volunteer, so it's not by me conservation volunteering. You can volunteer in exchange of food and accommodation, so you can travel for longer. But they also started recently to make like content career trips, work trips. So for those trips to join those trips, you have to pay a fee because it's basically it's not volunteering anymore, it's more like an organized trip where you're gonna go through a booth project. So we went to uh sea turtle conservation project. And we were um trained by the marine biologist who was uh working at this project. She was also working for the Carbon Greens, which was really cool for the Ministry of the Environment. Lord Twain, who could uh help out on some tasks like predating nests, patrolling beach, etc. And then the um people who joined the trip they also get like guidance on their career by asking any question to me or to the people who work in the project. And it's very good for people who they have never traveled before because you don't have to worry about anything, you just take your flights, and then we pick you up at the pick-up point. Sometimes it's directly at the airport, sometimes it's a little bit further away. And everything is organized, and you don't have to think about the logistics, so it's easier. So it's really cool. They have different projects, it's not only conservation. I do some research to make sure the project is ethical and because it's like any big platform and they're offering lots of different projects, so some of them are not necessarily the most ethical ones. So I'm choosing the the ones that I uh believe in and that I know for sure that article. Yeah, I'm gonna be guiding some more in May and June in Indonesia. So that's also why I came here earlier. The to do car restoration this time. We're gonna do diving. The people who are not certified yet, they're gonna get their open water. And they're gonna do car restoration, photo identification. We're gonna dive with manta rays as well, turtles. Very exciting.

SPEAKER_04 44:17

Falsa. So the trip already exists on World Packers. Yep. And then you choose which one you kind of want to be the host.

SPEAKER_03 44:24

Exactly. Okay. So for now that that's what I'm doing. Ultimately, I would love to design my own trips, but then it's a lot of work and you have to handle all the logistics, and it's very complicated, and all the payments and stuff. So for now, I'm um doing it with Wordpackers, which is also easier for me that it's already organized. Yeah. Like this, I can uh focus on like enjoying the trip with the People who are joining, becoming a better guide as well. And learning how they're organizing trips. And then maybe one day I'm gonna have my own trip or company. Who knows? If they pick and I would also love to work more and more in decotourism. So whether it's with Michael numbers or not, just like trip leading and expectation. I mean love that.

SPEAKER_04 45:10

It's also a goal for me too. And it's really cool that we could both want to do that and not like compete with each other in a way. Like there's room for like if I hosted my own trip, I'd still want to go on Bruce. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 45:24

Yeah, because it'd be like different personalities and different perspective on marine conservation careers and different knowledge and different specific species or places.

SPEAKER_04 45:33

And I think that's so cool. I mean, the idea of leading expedition seems oh yes.

SPEAKER_03 45:38

And it so talk about uh how people can get involved with you for this upcoming trip. So are they already called? Can you work them? And there's only a few spots left. Uh I think for May there might be like two spots left. And for June are not sure how many, but I know it's not that many. Because it's on like the first con, first surf. You don't have to apply or anything. It's like the only prerequisites are that you speak English and that you're 18 years old. And that you are willing to help the ocean and learn. Yeah. So that's it. Um, so basically now I have a website. Yep. Yeah. Pretty cool. So it's Camille Lesplay. My myfullname.com. So if you have my username on Instagram, you'll find it. It's also my link tree. And then there's a page about the trips with some information. Why travel with me? What about the trips? What does it entail? Stuff, some information as well, like for example, uh the slides are not included, blah blah blah. And then you have the links, it will lead you to the webpage of WordPackers. Yeah. And then you'll get all the information more in detail of what you will learn. We'll also get a marine ecology certification, which is like an SSI, um, which is a dive training company, uh, SSI certification. It doesn't equal like months of experience, of course, or like a proper degree for from a university, but it shows that you have some basics, uh basic knowledge and practices about marine accommodation. And yeah, there's also information about the accommodation and stuff, so you can just go directly from the web page. Awesome. I'll definitely link all of that in the show notes so that you just look and find the link you need and you sign up for the trip of the meal. But I was seeing it. Yeah. So that's what you're up to now. So you're staying here in Kileir for how much longer? I don't know. Yeah, I'm gonna be in Indonesia until June at least. Um, because I haven't tripped. And but I like it here, so I think I'm gonna stay in it for a little bit. Maybe I can collaborate with some of the conservation projects that here in the Ghilias.

SPEAKER_02 47:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:52

Meet more people who work in conservation and stuff. I want to do my freedaling certifications as well. I wanted to go to the chark uh conference in Sri Lanka, but it's crazy expensive. Oh yeah. It's like $600. To attend the car. So attends the big problem in the academic field because I went to the Paris dive show. So it's not focused on conservation, but there were some marine conservation projects. It's mostly tourism, but still. And it was like $30 a day, which was fine. Yeah. That's usual. Exactly. Yeah. Uh so I was like, oh, there's this conference, it's hang on the parts, sharks can be made into network and stuff, and learn about sharks. And uh I was like not expecting this price at all when I saw them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:47

That's a power. I wish that it was a bit more accessible, especially for a feel where we're not the bone exact super rich.

SPEAKER_03 48:57

So that's yeah, yeah, that's okay. But hopefully there'll be something else going on here that you could pretend. There's so many things you could do, and especially in a career field like this, if you can't find the thing that you want to do, you can create it.

SPEAKER_04 49:15

I remember the girl who created uh Project Hugh just saw and need to saw something that she is like, I have to fix this, I can help this problem. And then created her own charity identity, and now it's something that people know about.

SPEAKER_03 49:31

Like want to go there on vacation and do this tour, and it's so soft thing. And he's not even had to like dike or whatever to work in urine conservation, like the girl from Project T you, she's basically hiring some shard fishermen who are fishing sharks, and she's hiring them to guide like small cool excursions so they can get a livelihood from protecting sharks rather than killing them. Uh and so she doesn't even have to be like a dime mux or live instructor or a scientist give or whatever. She's just basically saving loads of sharks by giving money to those fishermen and do something else than killing the sharks. So it's amazing. And this actually is a very powerful way to copy in goodness way or tree, because you're involving lungal communities. I agree. I love that model. Like people still need to eat, they need to feed their families, they need to put a roof over their head, they need to send their kids to school. That's never gonna change.

SPEAKER_04 50:36

And if you tell people that conservation is gonna make it so that's no longer possible for them, then they're not gonna do it. They're not gonna want to save the environment because they're too busy, you know, providing for their fiddlings. If you tell them that there's a way that they could change careers so they make more money, still using the same skills that they were using before, like transferring from being a fisher to being a tool guide on a boat, like you still did all the boat skills and everything like that, then yet you're helping the environment, probably gonna make more money because those sharks are more valuable economically, alive than dumb. And it creates a beautiful community project, like centered around the well-being of not only the sharks, but the people too. That's my favorite kind of concentration. Like the people win, the environment wins, everyone's happy, who by ya. But I I do love that because people need to proactive. People are part of the elephant. So you can't forget to consider the people, along with conserving the and the nature.

SPEAKER_03 51:34

So I'm getting rid of it. And that's also like social justice and kind of justice is the same. And because the poor people are gonna get affected first. Yeah. And um, and yeah, people are not killing animals for the thrill of it. Uh they're just doing it to feed their families. So if you've been done another way to make money without killing those animals, then they're probably gonna do it. Yeah, so this is so exciting.

SPEAKER_04 52:00

You have so many cool things coming up. I wish I was staying in the ghilies longer, we could hang out. But right now, it's so easy to just get in here and be like, I think I could just stay forever.

SPEAKER_03 52:10

So at first I was like, Oh yeah, there's so many things I want to do in Indonesia, and it's so big, and I can have like this amount of months, and so I'm maybe gonna stay like a month here and then go somewhere else.

SPEAKER_05 52:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:21

We've been here for almost two months and I'm not planning on being here. Like, hey, the rest of the things I'll do later. It's the same with me, yes.

SPEAKER_04 52:29

I'm like, this is so good. I just time is a time is just a construct.

SPEAKER_03 52:33

You know, it makes no sense. It's your loose. Yeah, so you have your cups coming out and then anything real nice, and yes, things went. So I'm working on something that I send us talk about. Okay. Like it like the super big uh creatives that I've been for going where I was like since I was younger, and yeah, like I had a secret project. So it's kind of like that, but also it's not 100% sure whether it's gonna like see the light of day, so we'll see. Yeah, I'm working on it. And um yeah, just for now, that's it. Also, I really want to be a snorkel guide again and like work in conservation again, like in the field, so I'll probably do this again at some point because I'm also sometimes doing a bit crit-cre being on my laptop all day, just like finding online. Um even though I love creating content is that one stone from the UM is just answering emails and being on my laptop was not my passion. I am the worst female I wonder ever. Oh she wanted to answer email me. No, it's like that. DM me or whatever. Yes, such an letter. Oh, I need to answer this, and it's like pressuring me with like every clay time I'm like, I still haven't answered this. Same terrible, but also it's an ongoing problem because you answer and then you're like, okay, it's off my Twitter list, and the next day the person answered because they're apparently better at emails than we are. And it's again on your freaking to-do list, and it's just a never-ending toss. Sometimes I'm like, you know, I could die tomorrow, and that'd still be 30,000 unread messages in my inbox that it's never gonna change. So why am I trying to a very modern day privileged problem to have? This is a problem nonetheless. But yeah, so lots of things coming up. Also, some things that I don't know who I don't do, but I have like those things I want to do, like breaking Genesis, home dynasty. So we'll see. You're up to follow my Patreon. Exactly. If you're not following Camille, make sure that you follow her on Instagram. That's your main platform. Yeah, yeah. I'm really bad at keeping up on TikTok. I'll be right back. Yeah, so follow Camille on Instagram. I'll have the link in the show notes in the show description. And people can also sign up for career guiding mentoring guidance with you. Yep. I offer one-on-one calls if you are feeling a bit lost or if you don't know where to start to work in marine participation. Um, then I'll guide you as I people in the water, I'll guide you through your career. So it's like a little 40-minute call where uh we can identify your goals, your skills, also any gaps that you have. Uh, we can also map out the next concrete steps for your career. I'll give you all the insights uh I can about working in conservation, like according to your goals and your background. Also, any recommendation I have for like projects, professionals, resources, whatever. So, yeah, just to give you a little um guidance about conservation because I know when I started out, I was so lost, I had so many questions and nobody could answer. Or all the answers I would get was like, it's impossible, or be realistic, it's not a real job. And I was like, okay, that's not the answer I was looking for. Next, I'm gonna ask somebody else. I don't think this answer is so it helped her exactly.

SPEAKER_04 56:01

That's the worst, be realistic. Like, is it unrealistic that I want to help nature?

SPEAKER_03 56:05

Like, why is it unrealistic about that? And there was that very often, those were answers from like my unique purposes. And I was like, guys, it's not because you could not live your dream of living in the jungle or in the ocean or whatever, and that you're now studying like chickens. Maybe it's your passion. Yeah, how kind. So don't try to destroy my dreams.

SPEAKER_04 56:27

I think often those kinds of phrases, like be realistic or like it's impossible. Those oftentimes come from people who they wanted that once a contoo, and then they gave up on it for one reason or another. They tried and they failed, so they stopped trying, or they just never really went for it in the first place, so they believe it's impossible.

SPEAKER_03 56:48

Because if they believed it was fossil, but they did do it, and that would be way more painful. They would rather believe it's impossible. Yeah, they'd rather believe it's awesome. But we are living proof that it's not. It's uh it's not easy, it's definitely not the easiest career field. You're not gonna, you know, be a millionaire anytime soon, but you're gonna be uh in a beautiful tropical islands, showing people black to brief sharks, perhaps, or you're gonna be like me. You're gonna meet people in the field who are fishing and take data from fish species, and there's so many different things you can do. What on this podcast is to show you what's possible on top of that mind consultation, so yeah, we can do it. So thank you. Yep, it's always a work in progress.

SPEAKER_04 57:33

Yeah, we're always learning more and advancing our careers for sure.

SPEAKER_03 57:37

And we're all like still trying and struggling, and we still have questions that are unanswered. Because sometimes I look up at people who are like uh further in their career, and I'm like, oh yeah, they have it all figured out, and it's so easy for them, blah blah and they succeeded, but six success doesn't mean anything, like it's an ongoing process.

SPEAKER_02 57:56

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:57

And like even after years of working on, I still have sometimes to send like hundreds of applications and I still get rejected. We're talking about this off-camera, and we're like, Yeah, sometimes we're overqualified, sometimes we're underqualified, sometimes we're just like perfectly qualified for the job, but we still don't get it for some reason. So it's yeah, it's not easy, but it's possible, and we're all in together. Yeah, absolutely. Conservation is a team sport, for sure. Yeah, endurance. Yes, it's an endurance sport, team sport. Okay, so a couple closing questions for you. Something I always ask my guests after injured me is that if someone's listening and they're like, oh my god, can we suppose I want to get involved in marine conservation too? What's something that you'd recommend? Like it could be really small, imperfect thing, but if someone just wants to get started helping the environment, especially the marine environment, what's a good place for them to start? So maybe I could just wake up tomorrow and do. So I would say, like, for a career in conservation, marine conservation or whatever in general. My three best advice are you get experience. Because this is the most important thing in conservation. Like you can get a job without a degree, but you cannot get a job without experience. Unless you want to do really like research, then you need it. But otherwise, experience is usually the most important. And start as soon as possible. Get experience as much as possible. Uh, even if it's at your local conservation project, even if it's not exactly the species or the system you want to work with, it's so better show on your CME that you are motivated and that you are taking action to get into this field. I also think like the Maldives sounds great, but there are Bahopy conservation projects in your background.

SPEAKER_01 59:48

Oh, yeah. In your hometown or your county or state, wherever you live, there's something in your body that you could do. You don't have to go to Malbeats.

SPEAKER_03 59:55

And I learned really late that there were actually rescue centers in France, like where I live, and one really close to where I live. Yeah. And I thought that the like I discovered rescue centers with chimpanzees in Africa when I met that one. And I think it's pretty. So and yeah, when I started um interning to get experience as like, you know, to work with primates at that time, I started volunteering a well interning in zoos because I didn't have the money to go abroad in their natural habitats. So I was like, okay, two options. Either I volunteer in a in the rescue center and I get like rescue and rehabilitation skills, or I intern in zoo and I get like species specific skills about climates. So I get this. And there's even ways to volunteer like remotely or whatever. So just start early, it's gonna help a lot. So should that it's usually easier to get internships while you are studying, because with the uni, sometimes we need like a sky paper at this and process like this. Um, so yeah. And then second advice network and do not underestimate the power of networking and do not think that networking means being fake and being a hypocrite to people. It also just means making friends who have the same passion as you and connecting connecting with like-minded people, and it can save you years of like trouble just by connecting with cool people, so that's really cool. And um the third advice is never give up, because that's a big thing. That's probably the most important thing you can do, even maybe before getting experience, because all the people I know who are not working in this field anymore. It's not because they are less talented or because they yeah were had like bad grades or whatever, it's just because they gave up at some point because it is a challenging field. And there's a lot of reasons to give up everything. Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah, but there's also as many reasons or maybe more reasons to keep going and not give up. Also, I just don't want to do anything else, so I don't really have a choice. I feel you. So basically, in my life, there's no plan B, or the plan B is just making plan A work. Yeah. Uh circa. Anything that is not working in plan A is just a detour, it's not gonna be a full stop. Like it's just gonna take longer, or maybe I'm gonna go through this way and not the initial path I had planned. But there's no plan B. I'm the saffron, right? So that would matter. I'm not the only crazy out there who's like, this is it, this has to be smaller as for me. Uh, it's my life and passions. So to end on a positive note, my final question for you is what is something that is giving you hope for the future of the ocean? I think what is giving me hope is that there are so many people who want to blur in your eco automation, and like so many of us are fed up on like capitalism than just like consuming overcome sanction. It's also becoming like more and more popular to be like eco-friendly, and even though big companies are starting to take a turn, very often it's a very small turn, but like towards sustainability and stuff, because they see that it's becoming more and more popular, especially with our generation and Gen Z and the younger generation bull stuff. We all really want to reconnect with nature. We're kind of getting sad about being on our phones and and stuff like this. Yeah. So um I think it's this that there's so many people who want to help the ocean. Um, even if they have no idea how they can do it, at least they want to help. Even if they don't want to make it their career, like just what I was guiding people, sometimes they'll be like, oh, this is so cool, like we need to protect the ocean, and they have like a completely different career that they want to do something for the ocean, or at least just enjoy the ocean while being an ethical or and responsible snorkeler on timer.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:00

Oh I think I would answer honestly something quite similar. It's just beating people like you.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:08

Not like meeting people like you who care so much, and it you know, you turn on the news and you're so depressed or you're like, didn't you say more unless I'm just trying in bed? Yeah, yeah. Sometimes I'm like I turn on Instagram to like look at your content and like see my what my friends are up to, and it's like horrible news. Yeah, like just everything and it never things. It's like every day new horrible news. Oh, like more info about the sane horrible news, like especially with everything that's happening in some specific countries. And then it if you start looking into it, it's just a rabbit hole and you just end up depressed. And it's the best way to feel hopeless and not do anything rather than focusing on the positive and then feel like motivated to take action.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:57

I think it's really important that we are conserving ourselves here and live well while we're trying to conserve nature as well. Because it can be really difficult with all of the things in the world that are happening uh to stay positive. But it's actually, I think, part of the job is to be positive. We have to believe that change is possible and that we can do it in order to be successful. So Kale, thank you so much for being here on this podcast. It was so amazing that we could meet in person, actually. Yeah, it was really awesome and just very serendify this that I saw on Instagram that you're on Gilliar that was like, hey, on look two islands over. This would be really cool if we met in person. So thank you so much for dreaming to come on the podcast and be one of my first ever depths. Really, really cool. Thank you for so following Camille on Instagram, that car main platform. Um, it's just Camille West Life, right? Yep, awesome. And uh check out her new website, so just was published like yesterday. Oh my gosh, now you're really, really new. Super okay, make sure you check all that out. I'll put all the links in the show notes. And then if you're interested in the career um advice calls with Camille, those are also on her website. So check them out. You want to just have someone to bounce ideas off of and chat about your own goals and conservation. Uh she's an absolutely amazing resource. So pick her up on that. And then also sign off for her trip if you're interested to go to um Mr.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:27

Mr. Just have Caration and Live with the Monterey. That's my arm.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:36

Yeah, that's in Maine, June, so you can sign up on her website. Awesome. Well, thank you so much again for being on this podcast with so great that enough to realize.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:44

I'm sure we'll stay in touch and share each other a lot. On our careers. For sure. Thank you so much for having me here with Super Nice Food Shot.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:54

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe and leave a review. It really helps other ocean lovers find the show. For the links and show notes, head over to caseysnook.com slash podcast. And hey, if you have a friend who'd love this episode, make sure to send it their way and spread the ocean love. Remember, the ocean needs all of us to respect it, protect it, and keep it wild. Each one of us can make a difference. Until next time, keep standing up for our seas, and I'll catch you on the next episode of This Is Marine Conservation.