She Googled "How to Start a Nonprofit." Now Imani Black Is Building a Path Into Aquaculture for Everyone.

Ep 014: What happens when you see something that changes the entire course of your career... in the first six minutes of a Netflix show?

In this episode, I sit down with Imani Black, founder and CEO of Minorities in Aquaculture (MIA). Imani spent about five years as a commercial oyster farmer on the Eastern Shore of Maryland before Googling "how to start a nonprofit" in 2020 and building what's now a global network of around 600 members. She's an oyster enthusiast, a self-described dreamer and doer, and one of the most honest voices I've had on the show. She's keeping it real about what it takes.

Here's what we get into:

• The Netflix moment that rerouted Imani's entire career
• How a cold email (with barely any punctuation!) changed everything
• Why she says aquaculture is conservation, not separate from it
• The article that "caused quite a stir" and the culture shift she's pushing for
• Why representation is a first step, not the finish line
• What "killing every version of yourself" has to do with building something new

Whether you're oyster-curious or dreaming up your own path into marine conservation, this one will leave you inspired. 🦪

Check out Minorities in Aquaculture (MIA) — become a member (free for women, women of color, and gender minorities in aquaculture) or a champion 

Imani's article Aquaculture North America: "We Don't Need More Women's Panels. We Need a Culture Shift."

Follow Imani on Instagram

Looking to break into the world of marine conservation, but don’t know where to start? I’ve got you! Download my free resource, the Aspiring Marine Conservationist’s toolkit at caseysnook.com/toolkit and start making waves in your career today 🌊

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I was just like washing dishes like randomly after work. And um Chef Mashama Bailey's episode was on, and she's a she's a black woman, so I was like a black woman on water, like okay, intrigued. And it was like a black woman holding oysters, other black people holding oysters, and I had never seen that before. I mean, I rewound that first six minutes probably like 20 times because I don't think that I thought that I saw it right. I was like, this is this is crazy. For me, the cultural shift is not only saying that we accept representation, but we actually embody representation.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

This is Marine Conservation, the podcast where we talk ocean protection, science, activism, and everything that makes our watering world so emotional. I'm your host, Kate. I'm a marine scientist, environmental optimist, and die-hard ocean nerd who's dedicating my career in the sea. Fighting for the health of our oceans is just my job. And I'm here to share that love with you. Join me and my guests as we chat all things ocean and share the science, stories, and solutions that keep it thriving. Whether you're a marine professional or you dream of becoming one, or you simply just love the ocean and want to learn how you can make a difference, you're in the right place. Ready? Grab your fins and let's dive in. Today I have the honor of talking with Imani Black. She is the founder of Minorities in Aquaculture, an amazing nonprofit, and she is an absolute inspiration. She is an oyster farmer, an aquaculture specialist, and now the leader of her own nonprofit. And I am so grateful to have this chance to talk to her. Imani, welcome to the podcast. So we were just talking before I hit record that you're actually in Providence right now, which is so funny because that's where I live. You're right down the street. So maybe we can start by you telling a little bit about what you're doing here for the week.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Yeah, I wish I was I know, I wish I was staying in Rhode Island for longer, but it's only for a day. I mean, my team has been here since yesterday, but I'm only here for the day. But we actually have Rhode Island interns this year. Uh for the second time, we had a Rhode Island intern last year. Um, but this year we're working with Rhode Island Sea Grant um on those two interns. So they're working at Wallace and Carpenter, who was one of our partners last year, and then Blue Acres Um Aquaculture, who is on our post farm list this year. So they're a new host. So we've got two interns that are currently working at a Rhode Island farm. They are Rhode Island students. Um and yeah, so we're here. Uh this is the first stop of our New England field trip to visit all the the New England interns and you know just do fun things with them and just bond with them and meet each other and all the good things. So cool.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

So we should definitely back up though a little bit. So anyone listening that doesn't know your whole jam, uh, you are the CEO and founder of Minorities in Aquaculture, which is an amazing nonprofit. Do you want to just talk a little bit about what it is and what you do?

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Yeah, and I guess long story short, because I could tell the whole spiel always of MIA, but um, I started out as a commercial oyster farmer, so working on the commercial side of aquaculture for about five years before starting MIA or minorities in Aquaculture in 2020. Um, it's not Mia, it's MIA missing in action. I did have like a smart moment in that in that whole development. So I like to acknowledge that because a lot of people say Mia. Um, it doesn't have the little dots in between. So, you know, I know how people get confused, but um it's missing in action, minorities in Aquaculture kind of goes hand in hand. And really over the last six years, we've become a workforce development organization within the aquaculture and maritime industry. So, of course, in 2020, we started off as a DEI, but still in Aqua Culture, one of the only DEI organizations in aquaculture at the time, um, which was really special and very unexpected. I Googled how do I start a nonprofit. So, like none of this was on my bingo card at all. But listen, Google University, Google University is I mean, it it you can learn anything, it'll really take you far if you spend a lot of time on it, which I did in 2020. I I literally printed out every single piece of paperwork. I'm also like a visual person, like I can't really work on my computer, like I'm so old school, I need to print everything out. So I had like, you know, hundreds of pages of nonprofit things and IRS paperwork and you know, the state of Maryland paperwork and all these things uh on my table in 2020, and really um was just moved by not only my own experiences as a woman, but a woman of color in aqua culture. There's a lot of things in my career, you know, it being in a male diamond field that I wasn't able to do, um, and that I wasn't, you know, able to develop as professional skills because of my gender. And yeah, so it really, you know, I started MIA to really um kind of combat that a bit and really give other women of color at the start the things that I didn't get and the support that I didn't get. And now um over the last six years, yeah, we've really expanded uh into women, women of color, gender minorities, really um trying to train and educate and support the next generation of workforce development within the aqua, culture, and maritime industries.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

It's such a beautiful mission, and I had never heard of it before. Um, our mutual friend Gabby Bratthead mentioned it to me, and I was like, why haven't I heard of this? Because it's such an amazing thing you're doing, and I love it so much. So you registered the nonprofit in Maryland, which is where you're from, right? Is that where you currently live as well?

SPEAKER_00 5:54

It is. I live I live on the Eastern Shore. I'm also born and raised on the Asian Shore of Maryland. Um a lot of people ask me, like, oh, are you from when I hear I'm from Maryland, like, oh, you from Baltimore? And anyone who's listening to this that has asked me that in person, I'm sorry that I've had a visceral cringe to that. Um, but I I just, you know, I can't help it because, you know, where I live in Maryland is like what Maryland is known for. Um, and I could never live in a city or like, you know, Baltimore, DC or places like that. Like I'm very much in a the rural parts of Maryland. And so yeah, I'm born and raised on the Eastern Shore, and yeah, the the organization is registered as a Maryland nonprofit, but we're currently a global nonprofit right now.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

That's amazing. So did you grow up with aquaculture kind of around you, or did that come later in your life?

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Um, not aquaculture specifically, but seafood. Um, I mean, seafood is really kind of ingrained into my DNA as someone that l has grown up and lived on a coastal community. And I think that goes for a lot of people on coastal communities. Like you just have grown up eating seafood, and whatever seafood is like really popular in your region. For me, it was oysters and crabs and striped bass and you know, things like that, catfish, things like that. So for me, it's really ingrained into my DNA, into my everyday. Um, and I I didn't know that I wanted to be in aquaculture, but I knew I wanted to be in marine biology. Like I knew I wanted to work out in the water since I was at the age of seven. Um, I've I did a lot of uh like environmental camps and science camps. I volunteered, I was in 4-age, so I showed animals and you know, cleaned up marshes and beaches and all the things. So I was very involved in the environment from a very young age, and I kind of already knew that that's what I wanted to do, but I didn't know that this is what I wanted to do, really.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

I had a similar experience. I was like the general ballpark of environmentalism, but I didn't know like specifically what, and it just took a little time and it sounds like that's what happened with you. You like tried a couple different things within marine science and biology and then found your way into aquaculture that way, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Yeah, I mean, when I went to college, so I went to Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Virginia, um, played, you know, Division I Lacrosse there, and so the the focus there was more tropical biology just because they're near the ocean. Um, and I was more, you know, kind of uh really introduced to freshwater ecology growing up, and so that was really like a a a different kind of path for me. And I was like, okay, well, you know, like oceanography, like this is great. Like I could travel around, I could be an oceanographer, I could be a researcher, and so um there wasn't many opportunities that I had to like do internships throughout school. Being a student athlete, you know, unfortunately they say you're a student athlete, but athlete sometimes comes for student. Um, and so I wasn't really able to like do study abroad trips or internships and things like that up until the summer before my senior year. I went to Southwater Cable's and had a study abroad, or I had a summer class and a study abroad trip. Um, and I did see urgent feeding patterns out there, and I was it was great. I I thought it was awesome. It was like everything that I had like wanted it to be, but like everything that I kind of didn't want it to be. It was like kind of just like wow, like this is really great, but it didn't have like the same spark that I wanted it to have, um, or at least I thought it was gonna have of my dream job or my dream career. So luckily after that, when I came home from that trip and came, you know, back for the summer, I had an internship with the Chesapeake Bay Foundation doing oyster restoration, and like I mean, that was a wrap. That was it. Like it was just like I was covered in mud from head to toe, all female, like just you know, just incredible team that just taught me so much. And I just remember that first day, I was covering head to toe with mud. We were cutting oyster bags open to put out on oyster gardens and oyster reefs and things like that. And I just remember sitting in my car after like a hundred-degree day and being like, oh yeah, like this this is what I thought it was gonna be. Like, this is what I thought it was gonna feel like. And yeah, I think that was just kind of the spark for um everything that I'm doing now. My boss there at the time, we were stationed at Virginia Institute of Marine Science in Gloucester, Virginia. And what I didn't know at the time that my boss told me was she was like, if you're interested in oyster restoration, you should look at aquaculture right here at Vim's, they have an oyster aquaculture training program you should look into. I was going into my senior year of college. Um, and for some reason, my lacrosse team at that point just wanted to, you know, have a good run. So we went all the way to the NCAA's, and luckily all the team at Vim's was uh really gracious with the you know my time and when I could be there and not be there. And yes, I got into the O program is what they call it, and that was my first introduction into aqua culture.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

And that was definitely the right path for you to feel it.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Uh yeah, I mean, I think um, you know, I was really attracted to the hands-on part of it. Like, I mean, being a student athlete and and also just not being like a uh a classroom person. Like, I mean, I I got like B's and C's in college. Like, let's be real. I struggled with um, you know, learning disabilities, like all up and down my academic career. And, you know, but I was I'm a real I'm a visual learner. I'm also my ADHD is very hands-on. So like I can fully understand something if you show me, like, you know, one or two times, or if I do it with you, it'll always be ingrained in me. And that's not really like the school approach. It's all like books and memorization, things like that, which like really isn't how my brain works. So I struggled a little bit. Um, but yeah, once I got to uh that internship uh with Chesapeake Bay Foundation and then got into the internship with Vim's, yeah, I f I felt like it was a little bit like, okay, like I I like this because it's hands-on. And yeah, there were parts of it that were a little too science-y for me, which I ended up going into anyway, just just because it's the natural cycle. But yeah, it was really, I think that's what attracted me to it, is like I could still be physical at my job and still have that hands-on aspect where I'm not like it's not tedious and bored, like I'm active while I'm doing it, but also it was um, it was still in the realm of like learning and understanding and and just like really diving into an industry at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

I think in this day and age, having a job or at least having part of your job that isn't staring at a screen all day is amazing and necessary, like at least for me, because I go crazy just staring at a computer all day. And I've had jobs where it was like eight hours a day, five days a week, just the screen, and I was like, this is not good for human beings. There's something so good about just being out in nature, in the elements, using your body and your hands and getting covered in mud.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

I mean, I feel like I need that, it's like a part of my soul. And a lot of people ask me, like, you know, why do you go and visit every single intern throughout the summer? Like, you're so busy, you're never home, all the all over the place. And I tell them like straight up, it's my like I get feral over the summertime. Like, I was an oyster farmer for almost like six years, and it's just like I don't know what it was like to be on a computer. Like, that is not how I ever thought my career was gonna be. I never thought that people were gonna like be blowing out my emails, like talk to me. And I'm so grateful for like everything that's happened right now, but like was not on my bingo card. Like, I thought I was gonna be an oyster farmer for the next 20 years, so I had to get really used to being behind a computer. And there are some times where I'm like, okay, I need to get back on a farm. Like, I need to get back on the water. Like it just, it's just like in me right now. So, like over the summertime, I that is my time to like, yes, go visit the interns and really, you know, bond with them and and connect them with each other, but it's also like secretly my time to get back on a farm and on the water consistently, more than what I get to now.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Reconnect you to to your why, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Yeah, exactly. To like the beginning parts of my career, like why I got into this industry and a little bit of a reminder. Like, yeah, I love chatting with people, I love meeting new people. Um, but yeah, like it just it just wasn't the way that I thought it was gonna be. And so I've had to let my brain kind of get used to it a bit, um, instead of being like, oh my god, another Zoom meeting. Oh my god, okay. Sorry. No, in the beginning it was very much like that. And I wasn't honest about that in the beginning, just because I was like, that's just gonna like make people think that I'm not like grateful to be able to talk to them, or like I it's such a hassle to talk to them. Like, I've had some amazing, incredible meetings that have like really just sparked my soul um on Zoom, but I've also had some really incredible moments that have sparked my soul on the water too. And for me, I'm very much I need both, like I can't have one or the other, and so yeah, from January up until now, I'm like, oh my god, I can't. Okay, yeah, summer's coming, it's jam-packed. I'm gonna be on a on the water at least three times a week, and like that's what I need right now.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

So when you worked as an oyster farmer, that was all also in Maryland, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Maryland and Virginia. So I started that I started my career in that in Virginia after the oat program. Um, started working at a local oyster farm in Virginia, then came back to Maryland, uh, worked for the state of Maryland for about a year, and then got back into oysters in Maryland, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

What is like what is it like to be an oyster farmer? What's like the day in the life kind of experience of an oyster farmer?

SPEAKER_00 16:58

I mean, every every place is different, um, but I think the overall is waking up super early. Depending on the season, it's very tedious to like what you have to do. Um, if it's in the summertime, like right now, the oysters are growing like crazy, so you're trying to get them through. You're also trying to pack orders and trying to, you know, get your farm like together. If it's in the wintertime, it's a little bit more, a little bit more slower. Again, for for Maryland. I know for a lot of areas like up here in New England, you guys sink your cages most of the winter. We do too. We don't get as much ice and snow as you guys do. So we sink ours like later on in the season, or we sink the the cages that we don't really use. We try to save them until the next season. What's in the cages? The oysters. So they're oysters, yeah. Okay. So what I used to do, or what I do now in oyster aquaculture, just aquaculture in general, is we cultivate seafood in a controlled environment. So in oyster farming, what I was doing before um when I was on the commercial side was I was growing oysters for the commercial and half shell market. So everybody that listens to this that loves to go to restaurants for oysters and get, you know, the pretty oysters in the platter on the half shell and all the things, that is what an oyster farmer does. They are getting those oysters to your dinner plate, but there's a whole process that goes into it before it gets there. And I was at the beginning part of that process. So for the last four and a half years that I was um in the commercial space, I was running a commercial hatchery. So I was spawning adult male and adult female oysters to make oyster babies that would grow into those oysters that you see on your dinner plate. I was just at the beginning stages of it. So if you think about it as like babies, teenagers, adults, those are the three sectors of oyster farming. So babies are in the hatchery, teenagers are in the nursery, so that's when they're setting on uh individual substrates. So we just grind up oyster shells to be able to like have individual oysters, they're growing out to a certain size, then they go on the farm, and up until you know they're um a certain size, up until they get into your dinner plate, that's when they're in their like adult stage. So at the farm that I was at, I was lucky enough to be able to do all of that throughout all the seasons. A lot of farms aren't like that, but when the hatchery would close in September, then we'd move to the farm. So in the winter time, yes, I was out on the boat with a little propane tank like this big with like six people trying to stay warm in the rain and the snow and the sleet and the cold and all that. I was shucking pints for orders. I was um packing orders, doing all the things up until the hatchery would start again up in in January of the following year, and then we'd do it all over again. So yeah, I was I was fortunate enough to do all of it, but not every farm is like that, but that is the general kind of progression of oysters to get to your dinner plate.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

It's a long supply chain.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Yeah, it seems that way. It seems that way, but it's like it's really not because you have one farmer that's like cultivating your oysters just throughout different life cycles. They're just trying to make a viable environment for those oysters to grow and to have a deep cup and to look pretty and to have like really good meat content. So, you know, all the things that consumers look for but don't really know that they're looking for, those are the things that farmers look at and really try to put into their oysters from all the way from the beginning up until when they, you know, sell them for an order.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

Well, I have a little confession for you. I came to oysters very late in life. Like, I don't know what I don't think I disliked them, I just think I didn't try them for some reason. I don't know. Yeah. Or maybe it was that I had a bad one once upon a time and I was like, this is not for me, and then didn't try it for years later. Uh anyway, I now am obsessed because I had a good one and I was like, well, this is what I've been missing my whole life. So from a professional, what makes a great oyster?

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Huh, I mean, I think it it it differs um for each person, but for me in particular, I think a great oyster starts with a great shock, you know? There's been a lot of uh there's been a lot of restaurants lately, a lot of people lately that have been posting their oysters or like, you know, them with their oyster platters that the shock of the oyster has been a butcher. And I think there's such a beautiful crap. Like, I'm not an oyster shocker. I can shuck oysters. I am never going to claim that I am an oyster shucker because I know some incredible oyster shuckers, I mean, that can get it down. It's not even just about the time, it's about the finesse. It's like the actual like skill of it to be able to make an oyster to look like not only appetizing, but to look beautiful in its like whole natural tendencies, you know? I think that's the first thing. I'm I'm looking at the visual of it. Um, I'm looking at obviously tasting the miroir. So the oyster liquor. I've been seeing a lot of people on social media dumping the oyster liquor out. That's the gold, right? Every single oyster in an individual environment and area has its own miroir. It has its own uh identifiable qualities by identifiable flavors that each oyster gets from the environment that they're in. So pouring out that liquor is a no go. Like, that's where the like the crux of that oyster's taste is. So I think that's like one thing I look at. I mean, I I'm from Maryland. I I love uh a mild oyster. A lot of people don't like our oysters because they aren't as salty. I do like salty oysters, but like I mean, I think up in in New England, like over the summertime, the salt is really coming through. And like by the time I have like maybe six oysters, I have a salt headache and I'm like, these are great. I love every single one of you oyster farmers, but like I can't get through all these oysters. So I think, yeah, for me, it's just over a memoir. Like, I'm not one that's like, give me six dozen. I'm like, let me get a half dozen because I just want to try. I just want to see, I want to understand what flavors are coming through. I want to understand why the farmer is characterizing their oysters the way that they are. It's a little bit more of an identifiable characteristics for me instead of like hoisting down, you know, hundreds of oysters or a couple dozen oysters. I know people like that and I love that for them. Just not my jam. So I would say, yeah, the shock of it slash presentation. Um, two, I would say, yeah, the miroir. And three, I would just say for me personally, it's all about the restaurant too. And I think maybe I should put this like at the beginning, just because when I look in an oyster list, I'm not only looking at oyster farms or for oysters that I know, right? Not only just by their name, I love when a restaurant gives me all the details, right? Because when I take a that that picture at the table of the oysters and they all look great with all the other food and the drinks and stuff. I don't want to just tag like Wellfleet, right? Everyone knows Well Fleet, everyone knows that name. I want to tag the farm. I want to tag the farm that it came from. One, because they're probably friends, but two, that's where the oysters come from, and that's who I want to showcase. Like I don't want to just showcase the um the name that the farmer like puts to their oysters, right? Because every farmer has their own identifiable name, you know, salt buoys, little honeys, like, you know, all these different things that are that are great, that are great for you to know. But I think for me, the name comes with the company and comes with the people that cultivate it. And I want to showcase the people that cultivate it more than just the name. So I would say those are the three that I kind of look for. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

I mean, I figured it was complicated, but it sounds like, you know, you're a oyster sommelier or something.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

I uh I can't really say that I am because there, I mean, I I I would say that I'm an oyster enthusiast. I can't say that I'm a sommelier because there is a whole certification for that on Oyster Master Guild that I've yet to do. I've only done like the pre-cursor of course one. I haven't done course one yet, so I can't really say officially that I am, but I will say that I'm an aquaculture enthusiast for sure. So that really exists. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like wine. Just like mine. And yeah, if anyone's interested in being an oyster smellier, like uh Oyster Master Guild, um, two of my, you know, really good colleagues, Julie Chu, who uh is a oyster blogger, has been an oyster blogger for you know decades, and then also Chef Patrick, like those two have just put together um so many great courses that people are learning about oysters like in a really in-depth way, and really not only getting a certification, but like becoming stewards of oysters, because both of the those two were stewards of oysters, and I've really looked up to like their words and their blogs and you know just the things that they put out, and so for them to put something together where like you can actually do that, I think is really, really cool.

SPEAKER_02 26:41

That is awesome. And I will absolutely put a link in the show notes for anyone who's listening who's like, I'm gonna do that.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Yeah, absolutely. You get to like go on field trips and do all the things. I've done talks for one of the course levels, so yeah, it's it's really, really in depth for sure. And you're learning from two of the best in the industry, in my in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

That's amazing. So check out the show notes if you're interested in that.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

So let's jump back and talk a little bit more about minorities in aquaculture. So you said it's about six years old, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Yeah, so we'll be six in October this year.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

Happy birthday. Happy early birthday.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

So was there a specific like moment that led you to want to start your nonprofit, or was it something that was building inside of you for a while?

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Um, I mean, I think without me knowing it, it was definitely a lot of things building in inside that I I hadn't really identified yet up until 2020. Um, you know, there's a lot of different catalysts within 2020 that led me to it, you know, getting let go from the oyster job that I was at unexpectedly in the middle of COVID. Um, and just all the things with GE happening with, you know, society and those conversations, kind of the lack thereof within Acker culture, and just being in a spot within my own career where I was like, I wouldn't say like dissatisfied. I just was like, you know, there there's more for me, I feel like. And I I was hitting roadblocks um with what I wanted to do, and now I kind of know I was hitting roadblocks. Um, so yeah, it really, you know, it it wasn't one moment, but I think um there was a couple moments that like strung together. So in 2020, I come back from work and I was just had on like the show Chef's table um on Netflix, and I just had it on the background, and I and I've told this story hundreds of times, but I saw my very first black oyster farmer on that show Chef's table unexpectedly. I was just like washing dishes like randomly after work, and um Chef Mashama Bailey's episode was on, and like the first six minutes of her episode was you know, she's a she's a black woman, so I was like a black woman on water, like okay, intrigued. And then it was like a black woman holding oysters, other black people holding oysters, and I had never seen that before. Like I had worked with African American men and Hispanic men, Hispanic women that were more laborers on farms, they never owned a farm, or I never knew any person of color that like owned a farm or was like a manager or um an operator or any of the kind of leadership roles. So yeah, when I saw that, I was like, I I mean, I rewound that first six minutes probably like 20 times because I don't think that I thought that I saw it right. I was like, this is this is crazy. Long story short, I ended up finding out who the oyster farm was, and it was McIntosh and Sons um in Savannah, Georgia, and Ernest Sr. and Ernest Jr., I like reached out to them and just cold email then. I mean, just an email that was just like, I don't even think there was punctuation. I was just like, oh my god, hi. I just saw you on Netflix and my name's Emanuel, I'm a black oyster farmer from Maryland. I've never seen like I just was like crazy. I'm so surprised that they answered. But they got back to me and got on the phone with them. And um, Ernest Sr., you know, I I'll never forget, I asked him, is it just because I'm in Maryland, Virginia that I haven't seen other people that look like us in oyster farming? And he said, you know what, Imani? I can tell you everywhere we go in oysters with only a speck of pepper and a sea of salt. And I was like, okay. And I just like understood what he meant by that. And I understood that like I wasn't being crazy, that like there really was something here. And then, you know, later on, my my mentor at Vim, even now, someone who I really consider as uh as a close mentor and a just a close connection um within the industry, reached out to me and was like, I really hope you don't take this wrong. But like, there's gonna be a lot of opportunities for women of color, uh, or just women, or just like people of color in general and agriculture. And it was um one of the organizations like saying we're gonna have these DI conversations and conferences and forums and things like that. And he really meant it as like there's gonna be opportunities, like there's gonna be other things that are happening um as a result of this. And I really took that as like, okay, well, like if I'm not a part of those conversations, like I've I had never been to a conference before. Conferences are still like over a thousand dollars to go through. And I'm like, who's gonna be a part of those conversations? Because if I've never seen any people of color, if Ernest Sr. and Junior have never seen any people of color, like who's gonna be a part of these conversations? So yeah, that's really where I I Googled how do I start a nonprofit. And I don't really, I really wish sometimes I would have thought about that, but I think I I'm glad that I didn't think about that because yeah, I think it was just always meant to be kind of like a purpose and uh an energy thing. Like I didn't really know what I was doing. It just was this energy that kind of all came together from all these catalysts from January up until May and a 2020, and it just sort of happened, really.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

Well, you just acted from your heart and your intuition and paperwork be damned.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. My impulse took over, as it always does.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

So how has it grown over the last six years? Like, how has it developed since you founded it?

SPEAKER_00 32:50

Ah, man, in so many ways that like I I was hoping for and wasn't even thinking of. Like, I I had no vision of what this was gonna be. I just was again like going off of like this blind passion or just this blind energy. Um, and it's really led us into not only just being stuck in this DI box, right? Because a lot of people like to stick us into that of like minorities and not culture, and like, yeah, I understand that, but like really over the last three years, I would say I've really shifted us into like it's always been workforce development. The core of us is always been workforce development. And I think changing that language has been really eye-opening for a lot of people, but also eye-opening for us and for me, where I get to understand what is really needed, what's going to be impactful, but also like things that I didn't really think of before. Like I just again thought about it from my own experience of not learning things. I didn't I didn't really think that other women had gone through that. And it's really unfortunate that w other women have gone through that, but also it's it's just grown in so many ways that have just been so beautiful that really um made my experiences worth it. Like, you know, the first couple years uh I I had to deal with experiences with interns that was exactly like the same experiences that I went through. So it really was like it was healing, not only for me, but for them. Um, but I think on my side, I was like, okay, so none of that was in vain. Like being being the only woman out of 35 guys, the very first oyster farm that I ever worked at was not in vain. Like this was actually for a purpose. So I think a lot of things came to fruition and kind of came full circle. Um, but I think that uh uh as much as MIA has grown, I've grown with it, and obviously our team has grown with it, our border's grown with it, and I'm just super proud of everything that we've done. I I really wasn't expecting it to be all this, but I'm really glad that it is.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

That's amazing. I'm so excited for you.

unknown 34:53

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

It seems like you're really like living your dream, which is great.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

Living a dream that like sometimes you don't even know what you're you know part of your dream, but you don't know all that it's gonna entail. And so I I think I I yes, I would say I'm living my dream, but I've also would say that I allowed myself to see parts of the dream that I might not have seen before. Because I think a lot of people are like, well, if it doesn't look like this certain way, or if it doesn't look like how it was in my head, then it's not successful. And I think I've had to really let go and and and just like abandon that and be like, what is the purpose? What is the drive? What is the core? And like that only being important instead of like what it actually looks like at the at the end result.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

I understand. I love that. Yeah, we're all just kind of discovering ourselves along the way, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

So there are a number of ways that people can get involved in minorities and aquaculture. So there's the internship program that is for is it for college students or high school students specifically?

SPEAKER_00 35:58

So it's a range. So we do 18 plus, um, just because you know, if we're gonna send you to another state, we just want to know you have that maturity level to be able to go somewhere else and do what you need to do. But yeah, we're pr we're pretty much like a recruiter. So we work with aquaculture farmers all over the country, um, academic institutions, government operations, other, you know, nonprofit operations all over the country in about 10 different states that are doing something within aquaculture or the maritime industry, and that have been looking for either viable employees or good interns or just wanting to, you know, expand their applicant pool. And so we've been able to help them do that. Yeah, it's just been something that has built off of not only relationships with people, but just also like that recruitment too of like the multidisciplinary approach that we're trying to take within aquaculture right now.

SPEAKER_02 36:55

That sounds awesome. So beyond the internship program, there's also the minorities and aquaculture member network, right? So that one's free to join if I read that correctly.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

That's free to join. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

What's inside of that? What can people get inside of that?

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Yeah, so we have kind of like two different tracks. So the the easiest one is our MI champions, which is like our funders, donors. If you're not like a a woman or woman of color or a gender minority with an aqua culture, you can still be an ally and support and we can partner and things like that. So that's our MI champions. Sign up uh to be a champion and do our champion newsletter every single month on our website. Our membership is members, we have about 600 members all over the world that are doing either something in aqua culture, discovered aqua culture, are interested in aquaculture, kind of all the things. And that is really built out over the years. I mean, with me starting this as the only person with a very incredible working board and volunteers going in and out, um, we've done the best that we can to try to do member engagement, but over the next five years, that's really been an integral part of our strategic plan. We want to not only have regional hubs, but we have a member portal that we're launching in the fall that um is not only like modules and resources and literature and like all these things that you can learn uh or that you know are useful within exploring aquaculture, even like exclusive job boards. We have a job board on our website, but like you know, first come, first serve, we get a lot of jobs that are sent to us. And like, you know, if you have anyone in your network, like please let us know. Like, you know, we can recommend people. So we're gonna have like an exclusive job board there. But it's also the most important thing is we haven't had a lot of like member-to-member connection because like you know, I I can't be everywhere and I can't connect everyone. Like I do, I did the best that I could, but I think that this portal, our team has worked really hard to make it to where if you type in wherever you are, your state, like let's say Rhode Island, and then every member that's in Rhode Island will pop up so that you're able to connect with them individually and and like just be able to talk and you know interact and engage with each other individually instead of through MIA. Instead of us being kind of the middle person of like, oh yeah, we know this person, let me send an intro email. It's like you can directly send an email to them, hey, I'm another MIA member, I'm in this region, would love to chat, all these different things. But yeah, the regional hubs are our our biggest thing over the next five years um to get started because we want to do a lot more in-person stuff instead of just our internships. But uh yeah, that's been a struggle over the years. So our membership network has been something that we've really tried to not only advance, but just uh, you know, keep moving forward as best as possible. Because we I want to see all of our members. I mean, to have 600 members, a part of something that you you know didn't even know that was gonna be a thing. Like, I I'm I I'm maybe I shouldn't meet all of them at the same time because I will be a baby. I will literally anyone that knows me knows that I'm super I'm I'm a waterworks. Like anything like that, I I'm tears are flowing, I can't really speak. Like, I just need to like I'm just overwhelmed and so grateful for everything. And I think in that moment, like that's a moment I've been dreaming about for so long, and so I just know that I'm not gonna be able to handle it. I just already know.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

That's so sweet.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Yeah, it's it's sweet, but I'm also like, okay, I'm not crying. I'm not okay. No, I'm I'm here. Let me give it the speech. Okay, okay. Like yeah, no, I'm I'm a baby when it comes to that. Like, I I'm so I I'm such a I've always been a cry baby, but I think in in these older years, like things have just been hitting harder like these days. So yeah, I I'll definitely there's a lot of moments. I've even probably at the end of this week when we have our main party every single year. I shed a few tears. I have to like walk away and just be like, I can't believe people came to our party. Like I can't, like I just I'm a mess.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

What a beautiful like sign of your success that you're that like emotionally attached to it that like it shows in such a way. I think it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

Thank you. Thank you. No, I'm just super proud. I'm just super proud, honestly. And I mean, our team works so hard, our board works so hard, they help me out so much. And after doing it for so long by myself, like it it it does get super tiring, does get super exhausting. And so in in being in a space that I wasn't really intending to be in, I've had to really adapt to that, but also like just like find my own path in it. Like I've had to redefine what success means. I I read a quote the other day that really kind of like has stuck with me with entrepreneurship of like you have to kill every version of yourself along the way, like every single year. It's not just like in the beginning or at the middle at the end, it's every single year you have to like kill off a part of yourself that you didn't think that you were going to or that you thought was gonna be useful, but that wasn't. Like you have to do a life audit like every six months or a year as an entrepreneur, and I've learned that the hard way. I've also learned that the easy way. Uh, and it's just been such a powerful and beautiful like journey. It's been super hard. I mean, I've I've been I've been the most humbled, I've been the most educated, I've just been the most joyful that I can be in these last six years, but yeah, it's been a doozy. And a lot of people that don't know that nonprofits are are just as hard as running a for-profit, I'm here to tell you that they are. We don't have a lot of the same things, but we have a lot of the same things. It might be harder than running a for-profit. It might be harder. I thank you for saying that, Casey, because what I tell people is like when you have a for-profit business like this t-shirt, right? I can sell this t-shirt because I can I can share it with you. Like you can feel it, you can see it. But the nonprofit, I have to sell you my dream. I have to sell you a vision that I might not even have the full picture of. I have to allow you to see that vision too and hope that you see that vision. And that is hard in itself, especially in the beginning when you don't have any programming going on. When I didn't have anything, I was selling a pipe dream. I was like asking people to come aboard of a pipe dream that I didn't even know was gonna work. And when you have like tangible things, like, yeah, it's easier, but I don't think people understand. Like, nonprofits are selling a dream, they're selling the whole thing of what something could be before it even is. Like, I'm asking for money before I even do something. I I don't even have a product yet. So that that's a that's a tough part of it, but I think that that's what a lot of people don't take into consideration between nonprofit and for-profit. They just think we get a tax exam, which we do, which we do. But there's a lot of other things that come with it too. Grants don't come easy to nonprofits. Let me anybody can tell you that.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

Yeah, it's uh it's tough. I can't I mean I'm I have worked for nonprofits and I've seen some of the inner workings of that. And yeah, it's intimidating, but I mean, of course it's worth it. But it's it's really hard work, and I just can only commend you for everything that you're doing. And I'm so glad and I mean not surprised, but of course very grateful that people were able to like fund your pipe dream in the beginning before you had me prove it would work, and people believed in you and you know supported you from the beginning and look where you are now.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

Hey, I mean, we would be nowhere without our our funders and our donors and our champions. Like, I mean, the people not only in my life that have believed in MIA, but the people that don't even know anything about me, that have seen me talk or seen me somewhere that come up to me, even today. Like, like, I mean, so many people that I knew within the conferences. That I was at, but also some incredible educators that I met today that were like, I had no idea that you even existed, and what you said made sense, and let's work together. Like, I that's what like makes my soul on fire. Like, that's the part of this nonprofit work that I've learned is I like talking to people. Like, I I'm such an extrovert that I'm like, I'm such a dreamer, but I'm also a doer too. Like, I could sit and we could dream about the the next program all day, every day. I I can spend seven hours, you know, on a Zoom call talking to really inspiring, incredible people, and then spend all night like just obsessing about it, and then come back to you the next day and be like, okay, so I figured out a whole program plan from A to Z. Also figure out some like so some alternatives that we could do too that I was thinking of. And some people get a little like kind of okay about that because they're like, that's a bit much. But yeah, I I just had to realize like there's a difference between a dreamer and a doer, and I just so happen to be both. Like I can dream with the rest of them, but also I'm gonna wake up the next day and be like, okay, so like when are we starting the paperwork on that as well? And I think like, and even to do this, right? You are a doer, like a lot of people have dreams of doing a podcast or talking to people that they're really inspired by, but nobody does it. And so you're in that classification of a doer. You did you did the thing that you wanted to do, and I think that that's really commendable. And Mani, you're so sweet. That's the truth. A lot of people don't give us credit. Like, there's a there's a yes, the f the first step is the hardest. The first step is the hardest in anything. I think in 2020, somebody told me um that the graveyard is the playground for innovations that would have changed the world. You know what I mean? There's so many people that die with such incredible ideas that because they stand in their own way or their insecurities or their battles, they're in the way of that. And how many, how many things have we missed out on because people just haven't had the courage to do it? And like, I'm just so grateful that like I'm in the group of people that had the courage to do it, even if it doesn't last for that long. I can say I had the courage to do it, and you can say that you had the courage to do it. Then no one can take that away from us.

SPEAKER_02 47:30

Yeah, yeah. Well, you have the true entrepreneurial spirit that like eventually you just gotta pull the trigger because if it's something in your head that it's been there and you just you want to do it, you can either live with the pain of not doing it and being like, What could be, or you can just do it and get through the hard beginning, because the beginning's always hard, and you know you're gonna be cringe and you're gonna be uncomfortable, and and then eventually you just get over yourself and you're like, look, I'm doing something and I have that to show for it. And there's a quote that I also love, it's kind of similar to the one that you said, where it's like, um, your new life will cost you your old one.

SPEAKER_00 48:03

Oh, I love that one. I love that one so much.

SPEAKER_02 48:07

I'm like, yeah, you gotta kill your darlings, which are your past versions of yourself to grow into your new version of you.

SPEAKER_00 48:13

And that's so painful. It's so painful, but also it goes with the the quote that I I love and hate like so much. I I hate it more than I love it, is you don't know until you know. And that's like so, that's so entrepreneurship. That that's like you no one can ever prepare you for the step that you're about to take. And no matter how much you read or how much you Google, Google University, none of the things is gonna prepare you for what actually it's gonna take. And I hate that code so much, but it g it's because it's so real. And the life lessons tend to hit you in the face like a two by four. And I'm like, all right, can can I get like a slap on the wrist sometimes? It ha does it have to like wreck my whole day, like when I have to learn a lesson. Yeah, I guess it does, so that it sticks. But I mean, yeah, I just think it it it just is such a it's such a battle, internal battle, every single day and every single year, like you said, you have to kill a part of yourself off to in order to move on to the next. And I've had to do that so many times, so many times I'm such a different person than when I was in 2020 for so many reasons, but especially in this realm for sure.

SPEAKER_02 49:25

My goodness, same. Um, but that's you know, that's gross. Some people just don't grow. But uh painful as it is to grow sometimes, I would always choose that over staying stuck.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 49:41

So I have just one other thing I wanted to talk to you about, and maybe this is like a bit more of a downer after our very inspirational talks just now. Um, but I read your recent article in Aquaculture North America about needing a cultural shift in ocean industries regarding women and minorities. And for anyone who hasn't read it yet, it's called We Don't Need More Women's Panels, we need a culture shift. It's about your experiences at conferences in the aquaculture industry. I mean, I definitely agreed with everything you said. I'm gonna link that article in the show notes so people could also read it. But I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about the change that you want to see in the future, both like that you're facilitating through minorities in aquaculture, but just also like in general.

SPEAKER_00 50:31

Yeah. No, thank you so much for asking this because uh yeah, that article has has caused quite a stir, which I mean was the purpose, right? I mean, I wouldn't have picked a title like that for a reason. Yeah. Um, but I mean, I I really for me that article, uh if if anyone follows me on my on my socials, I mean, I I said when it came out, you know, it really was not only the core of like my own experiences, but my conviction about that article came from all of the women throughout my career and throughout just my life that I've known that have dealt with things in in a male-dominated industry or an industry that has said that they've accepted voices, but not really. And I'm not, you know, with aqua culture, we've made such huge strides. And I and I totally put that into account. I think for me, really what the core of that article was was that there's so many different, you know, specialized things that we do, right? Like I've been a part of some of the leading aqua culture's DI committees and women's sessions and keynote speaker for a lot of like women's conferences and things like that. And they've been so beautiful, they've been so transformative to me. And I've met so many incredible women and gender minorities and just you know, people in general that have been there that have continued to inspire me. But I think for me, the culture shift that I was talking about was not only in the room, but around the room, right? To have a women's session to me is empowering, and they have been for the most part, but there have been still in our industry, still women, including myself, that have dealt with and that still have to deal with this culture that we can't seem to let go of uh women have come such a long way within the last 40 years within the ocacultural maritime industry. And I acknowledge that there have been so many women that have really gone through the ringer to give me even the platform that I have now, give me the pathway to speak as freely as I am now. And I commend every single woman that has come before me that has done that. But there has to be an evolution to the room every single decade or every single generation that comes through. And I just feel like there's some things that just haven't, right? For me, the cultural shift is not only saying that we accept representation, but we actually embody representation. You know, there's a difference between saying, oh my God, you know, we want more people in the room, and then actually making room for them and their experiences and their perspectives, right? And not attacking them when something is wrong. And there were some people that kind of took that as like, oh, I was just complaining about that session. And it really wasn't. Like I wasn't trying to point fingers, it was just examples. And there were some examples even throughout that time, from writing the article to now. It took me months to write that article that I didn't even put in there because they weren't my stories to tell that other women had been through. It's just at this point where I'm like, where are we gonna stop protecting people that are maybe causing harm more than they're doing good? And when are we gonna stop saying, oh, well, he didn't mean it like that, or that's not how it was meant to come across, or whatever. Before we're just like, okay, it it it was what it was, and this is how that person was affected by it, and for that to be okay. And I think there's a part of readers, there's a part of some readers that like are not really happy with me because of that article. And I and I really I welcome both sides of it. You know, I knew that there were gonna be people that loved it and people that didn't. Um, it was not to call anyone out or to disrespect anybody or disrespect any of the women that came before me. It was just that for me to say, as someone who is trying to be a leader in this industry, trying to be as impactful as I can in this industry, to like say the truth of like there's still things that are being said, there's still things are being done, there's still women that are being violated or people, gender minorities that are still being violated, that like even when they go through these experiences, whether that's at a happy hour or after hours or at a conference, that those things are affecting them to where they don't want to come back. And we can't afford people not to come back. And at this point, like, why are we protecting people, even if that that's how they didn't mean it? Like, no, I don't think public shaming is the the way or cancel culture is the way. But I do think public accountability is the way. And I do think that accountability in general is the way. And so, when like I said in that article, I had a whole list of things, you know, if the the room is not for you, like make sure you're not taking up space, more space than you know, than you need to, right? Make sure that the voices that are really supposed to be at the forefront are at are at the forefront. If you are a person that um supports women and gender minorities, you know, talk about them and elevate them in spaces that that we're not in. You know, if someone if you know that someone is like good for this job, put their name out there. It's kind of like instead of talking in the performative ways, I want to see the actionable ways. I want to see us stand up for people, I want to see us stand up for ourselves and for our community and and really be like, we're not tolerating certain things anymore, because that's the only way that it's gonna change. And yeah, it was that was a doozy. That article was a doozy for me. I mean, I I'm so grateful to have um my generation aqua column in Aquaculture North America magazine, and I'm so grateful for the support that they give me. Um, but that was a that was a tough one because it wasn't just about me and the things that I had been through at Aquaculture America or other conferences this year, but it was like other women that I was writing for that weren't at that conference that were at other conferences that I was at that were still going through things that like they didn't know how to report or they didn't know how to talk about or they didn't, you know, all these things. And I just think it's 2026. Like, if you're gonna come to a women's session, like come correct or don't come at all. And I hate to say I hate to say that, but yeah, like that's how I feel. Like, if you aren't gonna really understand what the room needs from you in 2026, then maybe like you shouldn't be invited to the room. And I'm not saying that to exclude anybody, but I'm just saying like accountability like has to be at the forefront. And it you can't if someone corrects you, you can't be defensive about it. It it's just their experience, that's their perspective. And yeah, no, I'm I'm super proud of that article. I mean, uh, it's gotten a lot of uh gotten a lot of traction, gotten a lot of engagement. But it's also like rubb some people the wrong way, and that was like not my intent, but my intent was to to to spark this real conversation within aqua culture in the maritime industry, and I just hope that it did that. It seems that it's done that. Um, I mean you you bring it up today. This is the first like interview that I've had about it. Um, but yeah, no, I was I was really proud about that article, and I was really proud of the women and the people that you know messaged me and emailed me and DM'd me, like, thank you so much for making me feel like it's it's okay to speak up when I'm feeling uncomfortable. And like as someone who has gone through really not great situations as a woman in this industry, like that that meant a lot to me.

SPEAKER_02 58:04

Yeah, reading it, I mean, some of the things that you talked about, like hearing, I was like, but then also not that surprised. You know, I was like, oh I I've also experienced nothing like horrible, thank goodness, but there's been like moments of what felt like micro kind of people looking down their nose or you know saying kind of backhanded things that just were uncalled for. I don't know any woman that's worked in marine science or a related field that hasn't experienced that, honestly. So it's way too common. And I thought, yeah, you did a really great job of like bringing it up and starting that conversation. So thank you for writing it. I hope we will um link it so people can can read it themselves and enjoy the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 58:51

Yeah, I mean, uh there's a lot of versions, a lot of versions of it. I had a a lot of feelings that were coming up, and after the the situation that I talk about in the article, there were so many women that came up to me and and just being in a in a predicament where like I had won like a really great award that I was like super proud of and super surprised of in aqua culture right before then. And to be in a position where like I didn't know what to do, like I didn't know how to react, I didn't know if I could get up, I didn't know if I like it was like all these things that all that women all the time go through of like if I act like this, is it gonna be interpreted like this? And I I'm not only me, but I'm representing my team, I'm representing my board, I'm representing all the members, like and and am I going to show up in the way that they need me to? Am I gonna act in the way they need me to? So this article was like kind of my way of like going back to, well, yeah, like I I should have had more action in the moment, but I I just didn't. I I just was so stuck in the experience that was happening. I was so gobsmacked about what was happening. I just like didn't know how to react. And so yeah, there was a lot of versions that I had to get through, a lot of feelings that I had to myself like dissect, but also dissect of what was mine and what was other people's and really try to be a good representation. I I'm so grateful to have that column, but this was like it wasn't even in my column. This was like a special outside thing that I wanted to do because I wanted it to be um something that not only caused a stir, but caused the actual conversation. And and I mean, people know where I stand. People have always known where I stand with women in our culture, minorities in our culture. Like, I don't think that this article was a surprise. I think the title was might have been what was a surprise to people. Uh, and I've gotten that a lot of like, so you don't want any more women's sessions? And I'm like, no, that's not it. I want women's sessions that we actually talk about like the realness of it. Like, I want us to not just talk about like the surface level. I want us to talk about the realness. And the realness, I'm gonna say right here on this podcast, for for the first time, I think the realness is generationally, like for a second, maybe for a couple years, we don't invite the men, but we start talking about our issues as women together and gender minorities together, like all of us in that minority group together and get on the same page because generationally we're not on the same page. We all have like kind of different ends to the goalposts, and I think that that is also where we get out of balance. And so, how can we combat something? How can we champion something that we're not on the same page about? And so for me, it's like I don't want just a women's session. I I want a session where we're being real with each other. I want a session where we're actually talking about, yeah, no, not like just our male predecessors that have like treated us badly or said things, but maybe some of the our women predecessors. Like for me, I would say 50% of the things that I've been through haven't been from men. They've been from other women in this industry that haven't been supportive or haven't been great mentors or haven't, you know, really liked what I've had to say as like a younger woman because I haven't been in the industry for decades, you know, only a decade at this point. But all those things matter. And like we have to evolve the women's room beyond when there was not enough women to fill it, you know, because the women 40 years ago truly understand what it's like, and I get it. I've talked to some of them where they truly understand and remember when it was like when there was only four of them. I get it. But from the when there was only four to now having an actual woman session, I get how they could see, oh wow, we've it we've improved. We've we this is what we've been always fighting for. And then it's like, well, it can't stop there. It can't stop there. It has to evolve past that, it has to evolve past this generation and and what actually matters to the generations that are coming in. So yeah, it was um it was exciting to write, but it was the doozy to write for sure. I I knew it was gonna be a thing. Um and I I just had to prepare myself for it.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:09

Imani, I think if you ever ran your own conference, we could have those real sessions and just like get into our feelings and cry a little bit and just be so cathartic, you know. We could tell our stories and just have our our circles, and I I imagine it would be amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:26

Yeah. No, and I and I think too, um, a couple of people got out of that that I didn't want any men in women's sessions at all. And I I want to correct that too, that that's not the case at all. That's not what I'm trying to say. Um, I think we have to be intentional about who we invite into the rooms. And there's a lot of young, young men in the industry that I like I said in my article, there's a lot of um, you know, older men or just men throughout my career that have been great mentors and great advocates and that have really shown up for me in all the different ways. But I think that there has to be a intentional indication of bringing in the men that are gonna be in this industry for like the next 20 to 30 years that like we really have to start, you know, engaging with those are the ones that we need to start bringing into the fold and into these rooms because those are the ones that are gonna be in the future with us, right? Yes, it's great. If you're gonna retire in a year or two, we're so happy for you. But like you're gonna retire in a year or two. Yeah, you gotta pass the baton. And so like you have to pass the baton, and we like can't really keep focusing on if you're been in the industry for 40, 50 years. Those 40-50 years are you're retiring at you're coming to an end. There's a lot of great mentors that I have that are retiring this year. And I'm really sad about it, but they're passing the baton on, and they've passed on their expertise, and I just think like it's not all men, but it's it's it's some men, you know? And like I I wanna bring in the men that actually support, that actually wanna do better, that actually understand, that actually want a sustainable industry, that actually know that representation is accountability and like all these different things. Like those are the men that like I want at the forefront. And and frankly, those are the men that like are in our partnership list, like those are the men that I hold near and dear to my hardest colleagues because like they get it. And those are the ones that are gonna be with me, you know, 20 years in the in the future in this industry.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:37

I love that. I love that you have that support.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:42

Yeah, no, always, always uh always a process though. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:51

I have a few final questions for you um before we wrap up. So these are questions I ask everybody that I have on my podcast at the end, and I think we didn't actually really talk about um aquaculture and marine conservation, because marine conservation is a theme of this podcast, and I think it goes very hand in hand with aquaculture. Um kind of didn't talk about that. Maybe you want to just comment on that real quick about how aquaculture can really facilitate marine conservation.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:21

Yeah, well, the first thing I'll say is aquaculture is agriculture, as much as it doesn't get, you know, looped in together. It definitely is food production, sustainable food production is sustainable food production, and we need we need all of it. Um, but aquaculture isn't just for food production, it's for restoration and conservation too. I mean, oysters, I mean, there's like other conversations with finfish farming, obviously, but you know, shellfish farming is a perfect example of how it is commercial and restoration and conservation all wrapped in one. Yes. Um, and I think that a lot of people don't really see aquaculture as that. So um, yeah, for me, I think aquaculture is conservation, it's restoration, it's food production, food security, it's all all the things wrapped up in one.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:12

Yeah, I couldn't agree more, and I absolutely love that. So the question is if somebody Wants to get involved in marine conservation even imperfectly or in a small way, what would you recommend? And maybe perhaps through the aquaculture industry?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:25

Um, I would say when it comes to aquaculture and seafood, the way that people can get involved is, you know, just learning more about the seafood that they have available in their area and the things that are going on within their maritime and seafood industries in the their area. I mean, y you perfectly Casey, like Rhode Island, like where we are right now, has like such a rich history within seafood in the maritime industry that a lot of people don't know. And that aquaculture is really carrying that torch forward. And a lot of people that are trying to really enhance, really adopt um the sustainable practices of our maritime and aquaculture industry and use it for conservation, restoration. So I think you know, it's eating more seafood. Don't listen to these documentaries that tell you don't eat seafood. Don't don't listen to this. I'm not gonna call out which ones. Not to mention any names, but we know who you're doing, we not to mention any names, we know which ones, y'all know which ones I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:24

Well, this is not an option for everybody. I mean, there's some places in the world where the population is coastal and uh in poor countries, they don't have another option. You know, their protein source comes from the sea, and that is that they they don't have another alternative. So to say, you know, oh everyone just go vegan and that'll solve the problem, it won't. Um I think that's kind of an ignorance standpoint, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:46

Yeah. And also, no, I mean, and even going to like, oh, well, like the best seafood is fresh seafood, like not everyone has access to that, not everyone has the economic means for that. And I don't think that it's limited to that. Canned seafood can be just as sustainable as as raw. Uh frozen seafood can be just as sustainable as raw. Like, I mean, it's all about uh who you're supporting, what you're supporting, and how you're supporting it. And I think that that, you know, whatever way that you can get it, that's the way that, you know, is most sustainable to you.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:18

Yeah, I absolutely agree. And my final question is what is something that's giving you hope for the future of the ocean right now?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:28

Well, I mean, I think something that's giving me hope for the future is the incredible people that are part of it. There's so many incredible young people that are a part of this movement right now that I just I is all over my for you page and all over my feed right now that I just get super excited and inspired by that are just doing really incredible things. I mean, I think that this generation um and the generation after, as much as like we want to say that like Gen Z and Gen X, I don't know, the generation after them, are not interested in any of the stuff they are. Like talking with them, they're super interested in this, and I think it's just meeting them where they're at. So I think for me, it's what's exciting me is the heightened interest around seafood right now. I I wish I didn't see like some content from people that like don't really know, and I know you know what I'm talking about, Casey. Uh some people that don't really know the seafood industry that are making content, but it's okay because at least you're seeing it on their feed, and then it, you know, there's people like us that can then come with the facts and all the and all the things behind it. But yeah, no, I'm just really excited to see just the heightened interest of seafood right now. It's all over mainstream. I mean, I'm seeing it. I don't know if you're a Bravo girly, but like I love housewives, and it's like oysters are all over the housewives right now. Really? That's really exciting to me. All I mean, all over. All over movies, all over shows. I mean, I feel like everything that I watch has at least some oysters in it, and like that's super exciting. But I think it's the the people in our generation, just the people that are coming up, but I think mostly it's the women. Like, I don't know, like I don't know about you, Casey. My four-year page is like filled with so many women from all over the country that are just doing incredible things and like they're like running charters, they're running uh educational centers, they're running oyster farms, like that just gives me so much life, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:23

Yeah, women are pretty amazing, it's true. And I feel so blessed that I get to have people like you and other amazing women, and and men, but anyone that works in like marine conservation, and I get to highlight those voices and tell those stories through this podcast. I'm so grateful. So there'll be many more to come, and I'm so grateful that you are here to tell your story and to share all of your amazing accomplishments and things you're doing with us. It's been such a joy to talk to you.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:49

Um, so thank you so much. I appreciate it. I mean, hey, kudos to you for the podcast and like all that you do and the episodes that you've had so far. I wish you the most success, and I can't wait to keep following your journey as you keep growing this platform.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:05

Oh, thank you so much, likewise. So, real quick, for anyone who wants to get involved with minorities in aquaculture who wants to find out more about you, connect with you, where can they go on the interwebs to find you?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:20

Yeah, no, um, no, our our SEO is is hot right now, honestly. I wish I could take credit for it, but I really can't. It's honestly if you just Google Minorities in Aquaculture with the only thing that comes up, it's not anything that we've done. It's just that we're the only one that's doing what we do. And that's that's great. So if you Google Minorities in Occulture, you can come to our website, sign up to be a member. Uh, if you are a woman, woman of color, gender minority that is interested in occulture and being a part of our network. If you're interested in supporting that, become a champion. Uh, we have newsletters that go out monthly for both. Our team works really hard on that. Check out our website, all of our annual reports, our blogs, our social media, everything. We have such an incredible team that is behind me. I know like a lot of people think that it's just me and it has been just me for so long, but I've been so grateful the last two years to be able to really cultivate a really, really strong team, and they work super hard to get all these things out for people to just engage with us. And so, yeah, I would say check out our website, check out our social media, check out um just all the things we have coming up and support in any ways that you can. Share as much as you can with all your friends, and yeah, just keep up with us along the rest of the year.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:31

Well, I'll absolutely be keeping up with you, and yeah, thank you again so much. This was wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:39

Yeah, thank you so much, Casey, for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:43

Wow, Imani does some amazing work, doesn't she? I can't recommend enough that you check out her nonprofit. The links are in the show notes, minorities in Aquaculture. There's so many different ways to get involved and support her amazing work. And you definitely need to read this article too in Aquaculture North America. And it's called We Don't Need More Women's Panels, We Need a Culture Shift. Her experience is unfortunately not unique. And I truly think it'll take all of us to elevate women and minorities in marine science, in the aquaculture industry, in the maritime industry. And Imani is absolutely championing that effort. As she says in the article, representation is a first step, not the finish line. So I hope we can all work together to help further her amazing mission. So check out her work and thank you again so much for listening to this episode of This Marine Conservation. I'll see you in the next one. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe and leave a review. It really helps other ocean lovers find the show. For the links in the show notes, head over to caseysmith.com slash podcast. And hey, if you have a friend who'd love this episode, make sure to send it their way and spread the ocean love. Remember, the ocean is all of us to respect it, protect it, and keep it wild. Each one of us can make a difference. Until next time, keep standing up for our team, and I'll catch you on the next episode of this money after the show.