The Future of Columbia, SC: Riverfront Development, Growth & What’s Next with Will Brennan

What’s next for Columbia, South Carolina?

In this episode of The Soda Citizen Podcast, Brad Allen and Mary Lane Sloan sit down with Columbia City Councilman Will Brennan to talk about the growth, development, and big projects shaping the future of the Midlands.

From the highly anticipated Congaree riverfront project to BullStreet, Finlay Park, historic redevelopment, housing growth, and walkability, this conversation explores how Columbia is evolving and what that means for residents, business owners, and future growth.

Will also shares insight into:

• Columbia’s riverfront development plans
 • Historic tax credits & redevelopment projects
 • Downtown housing and apartment growth
 • BullStreet and North Main development
 • Infrastructure and transportation improvements
 • Short-term rental and Airbnb conversations
 • The future of parks and public spaces
 • Why Columbia and the Midlands are gaining momentum

Whether you’ve lived here your whole life or are just discovering Columbia, this episode offers an inside look at where the city is headed and why so many people are paying attention.

🎙️ The Soda Citizen Podcast highlights the people, stories, and local businesses that make Columbia, South Carolina an incredible place to live.

Riverfront Park Information

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

All right, y'all. Welcome back to our next episode of the Soda Citizen podcast. I'm Brad Allen. This is my uh awesome co-host, Mary Lane Sloan. Um, over here at the Art of Real Estate team at EXP Realty. Yeah, that's new. Um, but in the meantime, we've got a good uh business friend and you know, decent friend. Uh City Councilman man, member, your honorable is it honorable? Do you do that?

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Counselor, councilman, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Um Will Brennan. Yeah. So uh thanks for being back, our OG original guest.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Will was our very first guest on the first round of podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

And our ratings didn't do well, so we shut down pretty earlier.

SPEAKER_03 0:34

So we owe two seven years ago. Yeah. Welcome back.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Well, thank you. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

And more so than that, like you're also in the design, construction, commercial space. And I think a lot of people don't realize how much you've touched around the city and kind of like made the city what it is.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

Not just all have you touched in the city well.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Well, you know, I'd like to think that we have done some pretty, you know, transformative projects. I think the Curtis Wright hangar, down in that little elbow of a wonderful rosewood, has really brought some vibrancy to that area. Sure. And so that was uh my first projects in 2015. Historic. I like to do historic and abandoned tax credit projects.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Are we running out of those in our city? Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Um buildings that are 50 years uh qualify for historics. Okay. So that's the good thing. Buildings getting older. Oh, yeah. So that's great. And then also as Columbia, as Richland County, as the Midlands continues to develop, you know, those those buildings that are kind of off the beaten path. Yeah. Start to find some vibrancy in some markets.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Well, I know I know one thing people are probably curious about, and they don't probably know you were doing it. But right behind the old uh is that wasn't Dunbar Funeral. It was it was Dunbar.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

It was originally the Whaley House, yeah, and then um got into the funeral business and became Dunbar Funeral Home.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Not you, but you're doing the development behind there.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

So we did the Dunbar Funeral Home, yes, the Whaley House. Uh coffee shop. Yes, Knowledge Perk is a wonderful tenant. Yeah, uh we have eight apartments in the old historic Whaley House, and we just finished and we're up and running with nine cottages, Hickens cottages right behind us.

SPEAKER_03 2:03

So they're so cute.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

A little use of an old empty parking lot. Yeah. We have three bed, three bath cottages that are doing great. And those are rentals. They are rentals, short-term, long term, any term, come talk to us. How about that? That's funny.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

So, all right, I forgot y'all did old funeral home. So, what was the weirdest thing y'all found there? Anything getting E BGBs? Like, I'm one of those people that like I can get that.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

So, yes, we found there was a weird cloak closet. Cloak cloak cloak, yeah, up in the second floor where I think um they would store the clothes for the folks that they had to dress. Oh found an old like Civil War sword up there in it. Um did you keep it? No, um, somebody who was an avid collector of those. Yeah, no, no, I never must have a sword. But no, it was it was very interesting to see the outpouring of just people that love that building had a personal connection to that building. I would come out and ask to tour it, you know, before construction. Sure. Before we really got into it.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Yeah. You had to play nice with Historic Columbia, I'm sure. Make sure that you can't. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

They they look out for for the the the vibrancy in the fabric of our historic community in a great way.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

So let's let's talk about historic stuff in the city of Columbia, if you don't mind. All right, so there's a lot of misconceptions that if you buy historic property or if it's in a historic overlay, like it's a huge pain in the ass. Like, good luck, don't even do it. But I don't think it's that bad. What's your what's your take on it?

SPEAKER_00 3:34

I I view historic buildings, historic incentives as an economic development tool. Okay. It makes projects, it makes deals that otherwise wouldn't pencil. Yeah. It makes them go sometimes. And that's what I found a lot a lot in the past. So, you know, here in Colombia, if if construction costs are pretty high right now, that tax credit return you get, so 50 cents on the dollar back, that brings your construction cost down. Yeah. Which makes projects pencil. So I think I think if if developers could really understand that, um it is there are extra steps in it, obviously. We don't have to bring on historic legal counsel, folks at Historic Columbia, stuff like that. But I think I think it makes projects brander than they normally would.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Sure. Yeah, I get that. And that's in this that's in addition to the Bailey. You're not talking about Bailey Bill stuff. You're just talking about actual historic taxes.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

So Bailey Bill is a proper property tax free. So if I buy a historic building for $100,000, I apply for the Bailey bill, stays frozen at $100,000, for example, for X amount of years. Got it. Even though the value of my finished product could be over $2 million.

SPEAKER_02 4:42

Gotcha. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:43

So And that goes for commercial and residential properties.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

It does. I'm not as familiar with the residential component. Maybe that's uh that's another John Shear visit.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

Yeah. But he taught he spoke about that on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

And that's something that I think residents, neighborhoods are starting to realize it is a good way. Yeah. If you're gonna really go all in on a renovation of a historic house, go ahead and get it. Yeah. Because if you're if you're doing a million dollar renovation, you want your property taxes with the lesser value.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

And in the residential world, it transfers to a new owner, I assume it does in the amount of the years.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Yeah. Yep. Look at you. You're knowledgeable like Bailey Bill, yeah. Bailey Bill connoisseur. Actually, I think we did a video. We did. Yeah, that was great. Um, all right, so let's move to the city of Columbia. Let's move it. Like, I'm seeing some cranes in the air.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

We've got cranes.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

Yeah, it's not our state bird yet, but it's getting there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Yep. Well, I don't think we ever want it to be our state bird.

SPEAKER_02 5:37

I speak for you know residential building.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

I mean, they all say that like a city with cranes means it's a city that's like actually growing and moving stuff.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

So cranes are you know, like the first crane, when we used to talk about cranes, I know a lot of my colleagues used to say, we need cranes, we need cranes. People would point to like Nashville. And if you look at Nashville, it's like, oh, there's a lot of cranes. Um I think Columbia, I think Richland County in the Midlands right now is enjoying a hot streak of just pent-up visibility and growth. I think we're very fortunate as as residents, as elected officials, to be here on this wave that's coming. And we have kind of a say of how that growth happens. Yeah. So we want it to happen in a mindful way. Uh Columbia is is um a lot of apartments going up. I feel like every apartment that goes up gets leased up, which is good. So uh a lot of people keep saying, Oh, apartment bubbles coming. Got a university that's you know, uh getting 70,000 applications a year and accepting 8,500. Just imagine if we could keep 10% of the freshman class to start, you know, start a business here, get their first job here, start a family. I mean, that's pretty significant. Yeah, we definitely have that flight. Yeah, and so that's that's kind of our drive too when we talk about cranes is how do we just make it how do we make Columbia and Richland County in the Midlands just so much more attractive to everybody, not just uh college students, for example, but empty nesters who want to move down here from north or they're coming though.

SPEAKER_03 7:07

I think we're like the second largest. I mean, I think our state is the second largest growth influx.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

And I think our our Midlands area is the most affordable now. I think the Charleston market and the surrounding area is outpriced, Greenville's tapped out. Yeah. I think people are starting to realize that the Columbia and the Midlands is a great place.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

Yeah, I had a conversation yesterday with an agent from Missouri referring her, I don't know, great aunt who lives in Goose Creek on the water, was like, it's a million dollar house. I was like, everything is on the water now. She's like, well, Missouri it's not. I'm like, yeah, like a million dollars might not be what you think it is. So it's just funny because I'm talking Charleston numbers, which we do a lot in. And they'd be like, yeah, in Columbia, it's different. So you're right. It the affordability just an hour and a half away is definitely different.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

And I think further, further to that point, I think people are starting to want to move back downtown. So folks out in Chapin, deep Lexington County, they have to commute or the commute. So and I think the walkability of of the great hospitality districts that were that were growing here, I think it's it's very attractive to people to make the move back downtown.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

So what is what are you the city's projections of growth next? I mean, I've heard all kinds of numbers of like four more million people in the next 10 years. I mean, I don't know what the actual numbers are. Do you all have anything like that that you all have?

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Not that I've heard of. Okay. I'm sure there's some some studies out there that can point us in the right direction. But I think with the way we look at it is more density in residential downtown, but in a again, a mindful manner that doesn't overwhelm us. You know, we s has I've I've heard it said, we have that small town, small city feel. But so it's kind of how do you balance that desire for growth or that growth that is coming, but still keep our commute to work five minutes. Yeah. You know, our walkability to five points, to divine to rosewood, doable.

SPEAKER_02 8:51

My idea was a gondola, but that got shot down. So apparently that's not the infrastructure for that.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

I don't have that. So I'm curious, like what is something that's happening in the city of Columbia that you're really excited about?

SPEAKER_00 9:01

What am I excited about? You know, there's so many projects that come come across, you know, our economic development committee. And you know, some come true, some don't don't come true. But you know, seven years ago, I think y'all know when I was on here, my drive, and it's even it was on my campaign posters was uh the Jervaisry Bridge. It's the rivers, the rivers, the rivers, the rivers.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

And so you know, government is a slow slug, and to get to where we are now with the potential and knowing that roads, sewer, infrastructure is gonna start up here in a couple months on the Congoree Riverfront is just it's pretty exciting.

SPEAKER_03 9:37

Yeah, can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

So I it's it's out there. Y'all, y'all got a sneak peek of it. I did. So um, we had our first public meeting. I think we want to do a world-class park uh in between Gervais and Blossom and around there.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

Dude, it's so big. Like when you took us on a tour, or they you had us go on a tour. I literally had no clue how big that was.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

And it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

Yeah, there's deer.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

There's deer. I was crossing the uh driving across the Blossom Street Bridge last week, and I actually saw an osprey fighting an eagle in the air going over. I was like, wow, that is wild. Like right here in the heart. Yeah. Um cougars I heard down there too. Lots of cougars.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

All the kinds. Lots of cougars.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Yes. But um 80 acres, 60 acres of of floodplain, flood way that we envision as a park. And so we have hired a wonderful world-renowned firm, Field Operations, to come in and work with us on and work with the property owners. What could a park look like? How do we play into the topography? We are a shallow river, and so you know, a lot of people say you gotta save, save the riverfront and all that. We're never gonna dig out the river to go deep. You know, we're never gonna have a savannah, right? You know, or a Charleston. We're gonna we're gonna play play into the treasures of what the rivers are, how they slow meander through through the city. So 27 miles of Greenway, the last mile is that mile between Gervais and Blossom. So it's a priority to get that last mile done quickly. So you can go anywhere. Lexington, West Columbia, Casey, Columbia, Richmond County, uh the Boyd Foundation, great partner, yeah, is just is helping out so much with their their mission to really help with the river. On the bridge across the broad stream the Broad River, further upstream. Okay to Boyd Island. Uh over to Boyd Island, yeah. So if you if you're crossing 126 and you look over to the right on the way to the zoo, you can see the riverfront walkway coming coming together there. Oh, cool. So the bridge will connect over to our riverfront park, which is closed currently because it's under construction, uh, redoing the canal that was uh bruised in 2015. Yeah, bruised. Nice, nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:47

Well put wide open with me in the other time. That is gonna really transform our downtown, you know. I mean, everybody compares this to Greenville, and they're like, man, that river just runs right through downtown. Why can't Columbia be more like that? And I think I'm just telling everybody, just hold on, yeah, it's gonna be come see a real river, not a creep.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

Yeah, yeah. I think and I've um weird stories, I've been in that river before, but in Greenville, but like there's nothing to you just look at it and then it's drop it. Waterfall is beautiful, but like it just drops off, and that's it.

SPEAKER_03 12:12

Like, what were you doing in that river?

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Weird workout stuff. It was it was not, it was cold. Yeah, we I mean we've got itself. I was not, I was like with like 50 other guys. It was cold, it was January, it was the F3 kind of go ruck. Yeah, all right, it was a long day. Um, but that being said, yeah, got a couple shots after going in that river. But it's yeah, you're right, it's just like you're either right there on the waterfront looking over halls, and like you just see it going by, but like you can't, you're not fishing in it, you're not playing in it, you're not kayaking, you're not floating, like you're just well, you don't want to either way, because you're gonna go over the edge. But other than that, I think this river is it's gorgeous. Our river is absolutely gorgeous, and it's good tempered water. Yes, it's a little cold coming out of the dam, but it mixes with the warm water, and like it's just great, it's just fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

Yeah, so so we had our first public session, great turnout. 300 plus people came out. God bless you. I would not want anything to do with design charrette boards. What's your once, your desires, how do you want to connect with the river? So we had the padling community came out, the bike community, pedestrian um river keeper came out. Yeah. So there's there's just a fine balance, yeah, keeping sustainability, but also the parks and recreation offerings that that we want, yeah that everybody really, really desires. So uh William Street is breaking ground, like I said, in the next couple months. That is the road, the sidewalks, the bridge. It's gonna be the backbone of the upper part of the 80 acres.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

So it kind of comes in um where Cinniton is, right? Yeah. Like a weatherman. But it goes right there from the Girl Scout pretty much crossed over to Blossom Street.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Right. So we are very fortunate that um voters passed the penny tax back in 2012 and then re-upped it this past election cycle. That allowed us to build the Green Street Bridge right there by Colonial Life Arena. So if you can imagine that, yeah, beautiful, that's a world-class bridge. That's gonna connect into the park.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

There'll be a beautiful roundabout that takes you into the the road system and um pedestrian sidewalks and bike system that'll be in the park. So that's the upper third, that's out of the floodplain, floodway.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

So if you imagine Hugh G Street, all those empty buildings and everything, those are those are privately owned. So the hope and desire is that those get redeveloped.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Yeah.

unknown 14:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

So to be kind of the cornerstone for that for that park.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

So what are the I I thought the university had a grand plan, like doing the bridge, coming down, bringing them tying the university into the river. Are they just pretty much gonna stop right there at UG and uh at Harden? Yeah. Which one is it? Ugee. And let us pick, like let the city pick up the rest, or how are they involved with that?

SPEAKER_00 14:40

There's there's a lot of input from everybody. Yeah. From um the Guineaard family. True. I mean, it's their vision. Yeah. We're lucky enough that they believe in what we're doing right now. Um the university foundation, the university. Yes, that that was a big grand vision years and years and years ago. That I don't think there was any expectation on how to pay for it. Sure. But now that we're starting to chip away at paying for it, I think you'll see an update of what that whole area could could look like.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

And it'll tie into the baseball stadium, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Or underneath, yeah. Eventually, yeah, Devine Street will go under there. Cool. Whether that's a um auto or just a pedestrian bike connect activity.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Well, speaking of parks, I mean, I think y'all are crushing it on parks. I went and played pickleball uh at Mays Park the other day. Like it was, I mean, and of course that's beautiful. And then of course Finley Park. Like we feel I feel like there's a great swell of like going back in and and looking at public infrastructure in the city and revamping it and getting it back to where people can mingle and have community, which is what we are.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Absolutely. I mean, there's we've got so many parks. You know, I tried to take a tour and see them all when I was younger, but um the biggest thing that we are focusing on is making sure that we budget for maintenance on our part. True. That that is I don't know if that's uh unkept secret, but that is that is how Finley Park kind of fell apart is was was the lack of continued maintenance funding. So our council agreed to do it, but we agreed we have to start setting aside the annual maintenance budget. So you go out there, you see park rangers, um just keeping the park to the status, the world-class status that it really is. That was a Monday, you know, one o'clock. So it's pretty amazing. And that is the same approach we're gonna take with uh with the new Riverfront Park. We have to program the park, we have to keep park rangers there, we have to keep public safety there. I mean, look at what John Katz and Trey Judy, who who run Finley Park, do the programming. I mean, we just the big songbird festival that's coming and has been in the works.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

Yeah, I think we reached out to him and say he's like, reach out to our PR department. I'm like, who's just tell me who's running it so I can talk to them?

SPEAKER_03 16:46

Oh, I'll just call Trey. Is it Trey's doing it? Yeah, it's calling.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

Oh, we've already talked to him. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

So so it's amazing. And and the Friday night concert series, I think, has has been a greater success than we ever had imagined. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

It'd be world, yeah. I mean, just use your word world class. Like it is fantastic. It's also reassuring. I had a friend this weekend go, Hey, uh is it safe to let my 14-year-old daughter and her friend, or maybe 16-year-old daughter, go to Finley Park for a concert? And I was like, actually, yeah, there's park rangers, there's a police substation, like it's not gated, but it's contained. I was like, Yeah, I would. He goes, All right, cool. But he's been here his whole life and he just he knows what he knows. Right. So it was really reassuring to be like, Yeah, I would let my daughter go. So that was nice.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

It's great. So we want to continue that mindful approach with the riverfront.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

So I think I think we'll do it. And that's actually there's some big votes coming up here next month, May, to uh ensure the budget, the maintenance budget. So we've been told we don't, as local governments put together a maintenance budget uh prior to construction. Yeah, don't think about anything else. Which is great. I mean, we need to do that. Right, yeah. You know, we're lucky that our partners trust us to to come up with the funding. Yeah, so it's been a blessing working with county council to do that set aside of property tax to pay for that maintenance.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Speaking of county council, how do you feel like they're doing? I'm just kidding. I know I have to do it. They're doing great with with scout. I'm just kidding, as a joke. Um, I like scout. We like scout a lot. Um the roads in downtown, I just saw a rendering where we're gonna be looking at what is it, assembly street, like getting widened and getting where the central meters, I think, the center meters, which are already kind of gone already, the parking and making it connecting the main street district to the Vista district a little bit better and stuff like that. So it's a lot going on. A lot of DOT projects. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

I've experienced one out here in Millwood. I think there's a phase two coming soon from the Millwood corridor. Yeah. Divine Street is happening soon. What are they doing? Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 18:46

Traffic calming.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

Yeah, traffic calming, more pedestrian safety. Um the fact that you can still angle park on Divine Street. Display home Divine Street. Um But yeah, just yeah, the the parking situation on Divine Street's gotten kind of to a head. Yeah. So it's it's but again, back to how how you balance parking for the small businesses, but also, you know, the the amount of traffic that comes through there. So that is a large one. We've had public public input sessions. So once we get the final funding here, I think this week I think that project will start moving forward. And that's a great example of city funding through Central Midlands Cog. It's um any penny tax money is contributing. But also, man, we are fortunate. Uh Representative Seth Rose has really gone to the state house and brought back support to that project, over two million dollars.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

So his efforts are really, really going far. He was very instrumental in the harden street funding as well. Uh, you know, mixed reviews on that. I I personally think it's great. Um, and I'd look to see that same that same kind of momentum go up Divine Street, come up Millwood.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Yeah, can we get some pretty medians? Um I've I've resigned my fact that we're gonna get medians. I'm cool with that. She doesn't like but can at least be pretty ones, not just like concrete, like the ones the county usually does somewhere out in the middle of nowhere, just like a concrete berm where you can't turn. I'll put a vote in for that.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

I mean, what would it look like? I'm not I to have an example. Uh so you want some beautification in the city.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

Yeah, not just like a seven five points. I mean, yeah, maybe not to that extent. But that's just to keep college kids from jumping over the side.

SPEAKER_03 20:19

But like, oh just yeah, maybe down the ones down Gervais Street, down near like the I'm so glad you asked that question, Brad, because the Millwood Association is trying to start back up so that we as business owners we'll have to do. Yes, it's gonna work this time.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

Yeah, Thomas Rhodes has reached out to me about some of that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 20:36

So I just signed up for the Zoom yesterday.

SPEAKER_02 20:39

Oh, did you? You're such a good partner. I appreciate you taking care of this for us.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

I'll get you some trees and your medians. All right, well, I want to know like off of all the like government stuff. If somebody came to Columbia and they'd never been here before and they asked you, like, we're coming for a weekend, what should we do? What should we see? What would you tell them?

SPEAKER_00 20:58

It's a great question.

SPEAKER_03 20:59

Um And you can assume that maybe Hootie's playing. Oh, Hootie's playing.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

All right. So I would uh I would um I hit up, you know, one of our great restaurants, Devine Street, Rosewood. I love first and foremost, somebody says, I love all our restaurants. Okay, citywide, countywide. Right?

SPEAKER_03 21:19

Maybe pick Joe's favorite.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Entrepreneurs, yes. Thank you for for running restaurants. I know it's a tough business. Um I would probably hit up uh Massa for maybe a spicy margarita start, some uh trio. Then I would probably make my way down to the Vista if Hootie is playing uh at Colonial Life. Um maybe go get some oysters uh at one of the great locations. Yeah, restaurants down there.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

And then um, you know, afterwards, maybe make my way back to Five Points, stop in at Public House. Uh Nightcats. I'm a little too old for nightcats today. Yes, that's my uh that's our softball trophy hub for so many years. So Dave Dave, our buddy at nightcap. Caps, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Good sponsorship.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

But yeah, there's just and you you see north North Maine starting to grow with great restaurant offerings at Bull Street. Wow. Yeah. I mean Bull Street was a 20-year project. I feel like it's taken off in year seven and eight.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Pretty amazing. Yeah what's going on there. And more to come. That's there's still 250,000 square feet of office and residential that can be built according to the development agreement. So it's it's pretty amazing what what all is gonna happen there. And I tell you, when the medical school opens up, I think you're gonna see the street become a healthcare innovation hub. That'd be cool. Research um coming. I think it's really really great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

Remind me, what are they building the old Cadillac place across from Inda and Cottontown? They're building a massive is it a hotel or is it an apartment? Apartments. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Apartments and mixed use. That'd be great. And that is, I think they leveraged some abandoned building tax credits. Yeah, I would hope so. Bailey bill, everything.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

No, North Maine looks great. It really does. Like the infrastructure and stuff they put in and out that way has been transformative for that area. I think it looks really good. I had to go out that way the other day. I was like, cool.

SPEAKER_03 23:05

So, well, if you had a magic wand and like money wasn't an object and topography wasn't an object, you just had a magic wand, you could bring anything to Columbia, anything at all. What would it be?

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Anything. You know, I have mentioned professional sports to some level. We have some great professional soccer teams here that are that could make the next step, but it takes a municipal stadium. So that's the big, the big heartburn right now. How do we pay for a $60 million municipal stadium? So yeah, um, so that's something I'd love to see. Well, you know, you're not the only thing to mention that. So I think where it lands, I don't know. Uh, but I think downtown is definitely a desirable place for it, just so everybody from Texington, Lower Richland can make their way there. I think you'll see the city select a partner, a professional sports partner to bring this forward in the next year. Yeah. The MOU that says yes, we want to work with you to find and build a a stadium. But it's a multi-purpose type approach, too. Concerts, uh, other sports and everything like that.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

Yeah. I guess you couldn't work with Segro Park. I think the seasons line up too much. So I know it's not a soccer stadium, but you can fit a soccer usually in some stuff.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

I think there's some financial constraints at the world for taking away the the uh pitcher's mound and putting it back on is something absurd. Like twenty thousand dollars a time or something.

SPEAKER_03 24:33

Yeah. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Uh little things like that that you wouldn't think could really hinder multi multi-purpose use of the stadium. But yeah, listen, I I I think we're missing that venue size for concerts. Uh something that seats 6,500 soccer fans and then can pour out onto the field for a larger concert, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Yeah, you would think that Columbia should have I mean with polling from Greenville and Charleston, you we should be the place with a big axe, not Charleston where they haven't really major cities close enough to pull those people. Like we we'd be centrally located to pull all that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

But you got all those you know, all the talent going back and forth between Charlotte and Charleston and Greenville, and we're we're right here.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Yeah. Well, and plus with the the university, I mean, I mean students have some uh disposable income. Yeah, they do. Yes, they do. I mean, they are the they are they are the heartbeat of a lot of our businesses for sure in our hospitality districts. I mean people don't understand that translates into the penny tax, which helps pay for our roads, helps pay for our infrastructure, stuff like that. So we're very thankful for the students and their their expenses.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

How hard is it to deal with uh property taxes with such a large nonprofit sector in our city? I mean, I've always heard that's one of the reasons that we always feel behind is just a lot of our land doesn't pay property taxes because of all the exemptions from that.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

Yeah, I've heard from forty to sixty percent of properties in the city proper don't pay property taxes. So it puts a strain obviously on on services or our fire, our police, trash, everything. So I think we have been making good on our with the budget we do have for years and years and years. We've we have not popped the milled rate up.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

So as this growth comes, we're relying on that increase in private investment to help pay for for that extended services that are needed. So if you think about it, uh a large multifamily development around the universe. One, twos, and threes. They um pay a lot in property taxes, they get a tax incentive usually though. What services do they pull off of the city?

SPEAKER_02 26:31

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Maybe some P Fire, maybe some police. They have their own trash pickup. Sure. So it's that kind of capture of those types of facilities that don't really draw a lot of from our services that we kind of offset where where other where else we need to grow. Garner's Ferry Road right now. I mean, goodness gracious, y'all probably have signs up everywhere in those developments out there. That is a that is a hot spot for growth in the city that it's far out there, so it's it is a strain for us to get out there with our trash pickup services, setting up new police department substations, our fire service is out there. We always need more trucks or equipment. So it's it's that it's budget season right now. So those are that's going through the thought process today at one o'clock in our first budget work session. You know?

SPEAKER_02 27:16

Sounds like a fun time.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

It's it's great.

SPEAKER_03 27:19

Great time of year. Well, can we talk about Airbnbs, or do you want to stay away from that? Let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. You go first, sir. So like Airbnbs, right? Like short-term rentals. Short-term rentals. I think we're feeling some of the growing pains that some other cities have been feeling, like Charleston and Greenville and stuff. So I guess what do you what do you see the direction of short-term rentals being in the city of Columbia?

SPEAKER_00 27:44

So I think recently the city kind of put a direction on where they can go.

SPEAKER_03 27:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

Where they can't go, where they can live, or where they live now and can't live in the future. So if you have if you have one in a neighborhood zoned area, that is grandfathered inn.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

Okay. So let's say let's just pretend I own one on Wheat Street in the middle of Shandon, right? You currently have a currently have a currently have a permit and a business license, right? And I go to sell that. Does that grandfathership go away once I don't own it anymore, or can it transfer?

SPEAKER_00 28:18

I believe it's transferable. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 28:19

As long as you keep it that way.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

Yes, but but please check with uh city on that. Our code enforcement is the keeper of the permits that in the business license serves. Okay. So they can answer that for you. Okay. But last I heard, I believe it was transferable. But if you don't let it sit idle for a year, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 28:36

I think that's the same with multifamily status to you.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

For the business license. Yeah. Yeah. So but no, please check into that. Okay. I want your your listeners to have the right information. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 28:47

We'll put it in the show notes. Okay. So but there are places that you can have.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

Yeah, mixed use commercial areas. I mean, there's a lot of up-and-coming areas that have been untapped for investment that are close to downtown, close to our hospitality districts, that have residential offerings already. So it's it's kind of getting in there and investing, making that a destination.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

Well, what's the reasoning behind? Like, why is there now parameters on where you can have short-term rental?

SPEAKER_00 29:13

I think the influx of investment directly into short-term rentals, you know, we have in the area surrounding the university. Yeah. I think that was the most desired area for student housing. So you have parents that are buying beautiful houses for their for their kids that come here. That's great. Um, keep it up. But once you layer that on top of this this very hot market for short-term rentals in Columbia around the university, around all the sporting and entertainment events, I think that's just started to uh bubble up. And so uh, you know, young families that wanted to come and buy their first house downtown, sure property would get swooped out from under them. You know, so it's it's that mindful approach again that that we have to balance, keeping the character of communities and neighborhoods, uh creating more affordable options for housing versus versus opening it up to basically the corporate world of Airbnbs. Which I I also think I think the mission of Airbnb changed over the past five, six, seven years. And I think we realize that as our market grew. Yeah. And I think that the true genesis of Airbnbs is not what we are seeing with folks buying six, seven, eight, you know, and manage them in the heart of neighborhoods.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Yeah. So I know. I'm just one of those like I pay investment. That's not the city thing. It's like I'm gonna run this at the Supreme Court at some point, but I pay investment tax, right? Which is a lot more expensive in South Carolina, but yet there's certain rules I can't use my investment for. And like I get the brothel laws and stuff like that. But at the same time, it's like if I have a house in the middle of Mellers Heights, which I have, like I want to be able to do whatever I want with as long as it's legal.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

I think there's some AM talk radios you shows you should go with that crab. They still have those in cars. If you're doing great here, you should start one of those.

SPEAKER_03 31:11

Oh, great. Taking the podcast to the AM.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

I've never been able to make short-term rental money make sense to me. So those that can, that's great. I'm a long-term kind of guy, but um but there's permits with that too. You gotta have permits, supposedly.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Yeah, and it's it's uh one of the arguments is you have a hotel room in the heart of uh in a neighborhood. Yeah. Who's renting there?

unknown 31:32

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Me as a parent, I I don't want to know. Yeah, yeah. Uh yeah, I want a a way to track it. Of course. So all that's a good thing. Had you just with your binoculars of who's coming in, who's coming out, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:47

So do you think there'll ever be any change with the brothel law?

SPEAKER_00 31:52

I don't even know what the brothel law is.

SPEAKER_03 31:53

Oh, in the city of Columbia, you can't have more than three unrelated people over the age of 18 living together. It's considered a brothel.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

So that's the technical name for it.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

Um if it's like the law, that's what we call it.

SPEAKER_03 32:04

It's been on the books forever.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

Pretty much, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

And it's real. I mean, my nephew got kicked out of his own house on pickens because he had like five guys.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

I remember um when I lived at Height and Lee Street getting a knock on the door asking how many people lived here. That was back in 2003.

SPEAKER_03 32:19

Yeah. I mean, I don't think the city really has the manpower to actually like enforce it, but it is one of those, you know, if you've got a neighbor that's not happy and they turn you in, obviously the city's gonna look at it. It just seems like, especially in this day and age where you've got lots of different ways families can look and you've got multi-generations of people living. And you I mean, I even think about, you know, it it is there's not a lot of affordable housing downtown. And if you've got, you know, two international couples that are here going to school together and it makes sense for them to live together, I mean, technically they're breaking the rules.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

I guess it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

Um I don't know. I just think that's one of those laws that may I would like to see.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

But and you know, again, as as the market, as the density, as the desire for more housing units, yeah, comes to a stress level, you know, there are I I have heard maybe bump it up to four beds. Yes. Just to eat the enforcement.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

Well, there's already four bedroom house. That's the problem, is you have a four or five bedroom house and you can't rent it to can't rent it to students. Call me if you need to. I'll give you some hints. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

So yes, I mean, I think I think that has been mentioned as a way. Because it doesn't if you change the parking standards for that, so you have to have more on-site parking, we'll see where that goes.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

Okay. Well, you lead that chart.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

That'll that'll be long gone with that.

SPEAKER_02 33:46

So if you were gonna prospect of where to start buying property or um put investment properties with the growth that you think is coming, Southeast Columbia is the spot to look at with the city of Columbia itself, obviously. Like, is that the spot in North Maine looking more attractive?

SPEAKER_00 34:01

I think around Bull Street. I think in the neighborhoods uh between Bull Street, Harden Street, um, that area has great historic um inventory that Baileybill, yeah, historic renovations, stuff like that. I talk about a great walkable area if if the density builds up. Sure. I think that's a great area. But yeah, southeast. Oh, I guess it's a all about where's land.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

So um there's always the constant back and forth with the county about annexing too deep into the county. Listen, I don't, um, I want to stay stay closer to the urban core as possible and not annex out. Because again, I keep straining our services. We can't keep doing that. We already have a a short a shortage of on on our CPT team and on our fire team and uh public works as well.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

So impact fees, if they I know it's kind of I think the govern, if I'm got this correct, the governor's kind of become a little bit of a fan of this because with the growth that's coming, right? We gotta have infrastructure, we gotta have schools, we gotta have all that stuff. And right now, our tax structure's structure is set up backwards. So we can't really pre-plan for these things because our money comes from the secondary market for the most part. So they've been talking a lot about impact fees. So every new construction house or every apartment being built, a flat fee going to the municipality, which unfortunately will go to the municipality. So the county first. County those greedy guys.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

How much do you give from these guys? It gives us the schools in the city or municipalities, but they are the purse. County is the purse. Are they? And they set that they they are the ones to work with the state legislator on that. Yeah. So to set that the impact fees that you're talking about. We do have some water impact fees because Columbia Water is the water service. Sure. So as all these houses come online, where's all that sewer go to our treatment plants? So we got to keep up with growth. And that's not just Barnard's Ferry, that's that's deep into Northeast, yeah, you know, Columbia, all those areas, even out in Irma.

unknown 35:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

So I heard it's coming. I heard I mean the realtors have been opposed to it for generations. And but now it's kind of those things like that.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

Well, I think I think Lexington County's looking at how how do you pay for road upgrades and trans transportation infrastructure? Gondolas. Um, they have not been uh lucky enough to pass a transportation penny tax. So I think that that's the challenge. And who where where's the next place to look? The developers that are coming in and building 300, 400 track houses and townhouses. Yeah. You put that in there, I guess the logic is you need to pay for the impact of the area. And not just not just like us for Columbia Water, but when I heard schools and stuff like that, so that's that's pretty significant to go and add on to schools, yeah, you know, for the student needs.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

Yeah, no, it makes sense. I just I know it's coming, so maybe that'll be a way to alleviate some of the financial burden is uh pre-planning a little bit, having that money so we can go ahead and put the infrastructure in it. Look like a real state that thinks ahead and puts in nice roads.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

But I think I guess you also think who's that gonna get passed on to the case.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

Oh, yeah, the consumer, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

And then it gets back to how do we make housing more affordable? So it's always the balance. Somebody's somebody's taking it.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

So as long as the houses I can sell them and they're not apartments, I'm fine with it. Kidding. It's a joke.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

I was like, oh God, we're gonna get canceled.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

Real estate canceled for sure. All right. So any last uh parting thoughts, words, things that we didn't go over that you want to make sure that people know what the great city of Columbia is doing for them and their tax dollars?

SPEAKER_00 37:25

I would say if you can go and check out our page at Columbia website, we have a great landing page for the river. We're taking public comment. So please check that out. It's got a lot of great information on there. Again, back to just I feel like we should all feel lucky that we're we're here present right now in the city of Columbia and Harrison County in the Midlands for this wave of greatness that's coming as far as parks and rec, hospitality. It's kind of that that big city feel in our nice little city here.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

Yeah, and I'm excited that City of Columbia is gonna annex in Casey, I heard in the next couple years. So I'm looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_03 37:59

That is not that's what I heard. Oh, we're starting rumor. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

All things.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

Well, well, you are an advocate for uh not just us and our community, but the realtor brand and everybody else. Like you're you're a good uh a good human, and I appreciate that. Uh you're always out doing stuff, you're always out at the events and like taking questions and probably taking the comments too that you probably don't want to sometimes, but I appreciate that. It's a great example of that.

SPEAKER_03 38:25

Yeah, no, thank you so much for being here. Yeah.