What They Don’t Tell You About Ostomy Surgery

They saved your life. But they didn’t tell you this.

From gray mucus to blockages, withdrawal symptoms to smell shame… this is the conversation we wish we’d heard before surgery.

In this episode of Rewired and Desired, Trina Ricketts and Nicole Richards share the real, unfiltered truths about what they were not told before, during, or after ostomy surgery.

We cover:

●      The mental health impact no one prepares you for

●      Why your bag may stop fitting if your weight changes

●      Smell, noise, and the shame that follows

●      Blockage risks and foods to watch

●      Gray mucus discharge (and why it’s normal)

●      Hernias and posture

●      Skin breakdown and yeast infections

●      Opioid withdrawal after surgery

●      Hydration dangers

●      Mixing and matching ostomy systems

●      Showering, swimming, and bathing with confidence

This is not medical advice. This is lived experience from two women who have been there.

If you’ve ever thought, “Why didn’t anyone tell me this?” — you are not alone.

 Timestamps

00:00 – Welcome to Rewired & Desired
01:30 – Emergency vs planned surgery differences
03:00 – Weight changes & bag system issues
04:45 – Smell & odor drops
06:00 – Gray mucus discharge explained
09:45 – Blockages & dangerous foods
11:00 – Skin breakdown & yeast under the flange
12:30 – Mental health support gap
14:20 – Clothing fears & body image
15:40 – Always carry supplies
16:45 – Opioid withdrawal after hospital
20:30 – Hernias & posture
21:20 – Hydration risks
22:50 – Showering, bathing & swimming myths
27:30 – Masterclass announcement
28:20 – Medicare supply decision concerns

📌 Connect With Us
Trina Ricketts – The Intimate Ostomate
Website: intimateostomate.com
Instagram:   / intimateostomate 
Youtube:    / @intimateostomate 
Books, guides, coaching & resources
Coaching • Books / Guides • Resources • Intimacy Advocacy

Nicole Richards - Ostomy Innovations
Website: ostomyinnovations222.com
Instagram:   / ostomyinnovations 
Youtube:    / @ostomyinnovations222 
Coaching • Wellness • Disability advocacy • Ostomy Clothing

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Welcome to Rewired and Desired Podcast, where intimacy, mindset, and disability intersect. I am one of your hosts, Trina Ricketts, and we also have Nicole Richards, my co-host. We are both the hosts. And today we are going to talk about what they don't tell you before, during, or after ostomy surgery.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

All of the above.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Yeah, was it originally like before or after? I can't remember, but we were like, actually, it's all of the above. All of the above, yes, yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

So yeah, I think I think it's safe to say, like, you know, during ostomy body positive, after being on ostomy body positive for so long, we're starting to just they're like, well, I didn't know that. Or um no one told me that. And I can attest to that because I have a few things that I really want to mention, but um it's just amazing how many things are not, and that's why we do these podcasts, and that's why we have groups and and talk about this out loud so much, is that people have to understand that some of this stuff is normal and who'd have thought kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

So I know that's crazy. And I think it's probably different too, like if it's an emergency surgery or not, because if you know, like the my first ostomy surgery, sorry, I banged my mic there for a sec. Um, my first ostomy surgery was emergency. So I had nothing told to me, obviously, because they're like, we have to do emergency surgery, you're gonna have a bag. That's all they told me, you know. Um, but the second time, because I knew that what I was getting into and I had a few weeks, I really went into like research mode and I learned a lot myself, but I still found I came out the other side not knowing a lot.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

You know? 100%. Yeah. Like I said, there's been plenty of people who posted in the groups, um, you know, about just the fact that, you know, they they were in the hospital and they got the surgery and like the nurses taught them like the basics, but then there was never like even meeting with your colon and rectal surgeon, like prior to surgery, no one explained these things. I just I feel like there should be like a checklist. Like, by the way, here's a list of all the things. Right. I mean, just like a or even just like a maybe we need to make a pamphlet or something, just like highlighting all the things that are possible that could happen.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Yeah. I mean, that's why I made my intimacy guide, was because there were so many questions I had about intimacy that didn't get answered. Yeah. And for me, that was like the biggest scariest part of going through this surgery. Yeah. You know. But the first time I had uh the emergency surgery, a couple things they didn't tell me that I really wish they did before I went home is and I they didn't tell me this the second time either. Um, one thing was that if my weight changes, I might need a different bag system. So I just went home and kept using the same bags and kept ordering the same bags. I didn't want to leave the house because I was so sick. And my husband would go and get them and bring them home, and then one day they wouldn't stay on anymore. And I'd gain some weight. That's all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

I just gained some weight. You would think that that would be an obvious one. Or like, or like telling you that, hey, just because you're going home in Hollister, because that's what they sent me home in, was Hollister. And I think a lot of hospitals do that. It must be some kind of contractual agreement that they have. But no one told me that, like, by the way, you can also switch your bags, or you know, because like for you, it yes, it was maybe a matter of gaining, losing weight, but it could also just be that it wasn't compatible for what you needed. No, you know, I've I've tried I tried um different after 10 plus years of being in what I'm in now, I just tried another brand just because. And I was like, oh my gosh, no way could I do this. I could never do this. And so how many people don't like join um groups and then find out that you know that they could also have a different bag or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Oh my gosh, we should do a whole episode on like what we like about the different bags we've tried. We should, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

We could do like a test them all, that'd be awesome. Yeah, we should.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

The other thing they didn't tell me the first time I went home, and this was a big part of my shame around my anostomy bag, was the smell. Like I had I didn't have a very good relationship with my husband, and I felt very like judged by him. So I I struggled to have anything about me that he could think poorly of me about. Yeah. So and every time I emptied my bag, the bathroom like it was it's a horrible smell. It's horrible. To be honest, it's horrible. And I was so ashamed of that. And I had no idea that there were such things as odor drops.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Like odor drops to me, I I would do I would panhandle for a hundred dollars a month to pay for my odor drops. Like I would do almost any, like, you know, short of like criminal behavior, I would do almost anything for my odor drops, like to make sure I could spend that hundred dollars a month. That's a for me, um a necessity.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I I I've been using just like essential oils, but um, and see, then they don't tell you that there's all other options as well.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

I didn't know you could use essential oils.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Yeah, yeah. Essential oils, um, there's uh somebody talked about putting like an aspirin in. I don't know if that works, or a tic-tac. Someone also said a tic-tac. I don't know if it absorbs. I've never tried it, but I've heard other people talk about it. So there's another one. Um, for me, the I'm gonna say the biggest thing, and this is really strange because I went because I had my ostomy, and it was about almost six years later, that I felt the urge to have to sit on the toilet. Now I don't I don't have a Barbie but or you know, so um I felt the urge to sit on the toilet, and this grayish fecal matter came out.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

That's a long time after that happened to me, like within the first few months, and they never told me about it either. I thought I had to go to the hospital.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

I was like, what is going on? Well, that's just it. I was out here in California because it was during COVID. And I was out here in California and I was uh working a job and um you know, far from home. And so I did, I had to call my colon and reptile surgery because when you look up pooping gray poop, you get like cancer, or you know, they talk that it could be something really bad that's happening to you. So of course I'm freaking out. Yeah, I'm freaking out like there's something wrong with me, and they're like, oh yeah, that's normal, that can happen. It's like, oh, and I wasn't really active in Facebook groups at that time. So, and plus I probably wasn't confident enough to really ask the question or thought that I should, because I thought it was completely abnormal. But yeah, I mean that stuff's that's scary stuff. That's like you thinking for you know, until you meet with your doctor that maybe something is happening to you, you know. Um, granted, now we have Chat GPT and we could probably find out a little bit more, but even so, you you still don't get a clear-cut answer, like talking to your doctor, you know. So that was my biggest one. And now that I'm you know in Awesome Body Positive and uh have that support group going, it's like I see more and more people talking that this happens, and they say the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

What's going on? Has this happened to anybody? Well, and theirs even sounds different than mine, which makes me different. It can be a little bloody, it can have different manifestations.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Yes, yes, yes. Muc. A lot of people call it mucusy, and mine's never mucusy, but I do feel that. So, yes, that's something no one ever explained, and I think that would have been really smart to really tell us, right? Um, yeah, and so I have some other things. So, like the you know, in Awesome Body Positive, we do a lot of these posts with, you know, um things only certain you know awesomenes might understand, or we ask these questions in the group. So we've gotten a few different um a few different like feedback from from group members. Um, well, you said the smell, but then the noise, like you'd think that they would tell us, like, by the way, other ostomates have mentioned that if you, you know, put your hand or wear something compressing. I think you had a video about that. Was that yesterday? Yeah. Um, if you wear something compressing or you put your hand, like tell us that because or even tell us that it's gonna fart.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

I didn't know it was gonna fart.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Yeah, yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Another thing they never told me that uh uh that ended me up in the hospital over and over again, and they still didn't tell me was the certain foods that are more likely to cause blockages. That's one and that's probably the most important thing of all of it.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Right because that is a life-threatening event. Life not threatening, and it can the only the only thing I uh the only excuse I would give to that is that it's different for different people.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

However, but certain things like nuts, yes, fibrous vegetables, things certain things like we don't digest, cabbage, like for me it was almonds, like you know, like there's or even lettuce, like I can eat lettuce, but some people can't. Yeah, or something like that. But like you, at least if you know what the most likely things are, then you can avoid them or make sure you chew really good or anything, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:35

Right, it's or like corn or like I was just still eating the way I always ate.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Yeah, I didn't chew any more than I used to, like nothing. They never told me that you should chew more, like chew more after you have an oxomie.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Right. See, I mean, I'm already like I'm already envisioning this pamphlet and like food, watch this, or look for this in your stool, or look for this in you know, your skin. Like, there's so many things. Skin breakdown. Like, I never really, I mean, I luckily I don't get a lot, but like I feel like that wasn't explained enough. Like getting a good seal can cause severe skin breakdown.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Um, making sure the area is clean and fresh, like you know, really that that hygiene, but I mean, like everybody kind of knows the hygiene part, I would assume, but still, like how would you know that, you know, well, like you get yeast around the like if you have hot flashes like me, I'll sweat underneath my bag, which will create moisture under under the flange on my against my skin, which will cause a yeast infection, which will make it really freaking itchy, you know. And like, yeah, they didn't tell me about like when when the first time an osty nurse told me, Oh, that you've probably got yeast under the bag, I was like, no. Yeah, I was like, I don't think that's it.

unknown 11:58

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

And then after that, I started to be really, really conscientious about complete dryness of my skin before putting it on. And um, and then after showers, really dry like in the shower, using like a s like a foliator right around the edge of the bag because it it gets whatever bacteria is like you know, building around the bat edge of the bag, it it gets rid of it, it cleans it off, and then making sure that area is really dry.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah. Um, I think I think another huge thing is just the mental health aspect of it. Like there's no, I mean, unless you have really good, a really, really good team or ostomy um nurse or wound ostomy continent and there's unless you do, which there are a lot of them, and a lot of there's well, there's a quite a few out in our group too. However, that's not across the board, and that's not in every hospital. In fact, you could end up in a hospital where there's not even one ostomy nurse. It's happened to me a few times. Um so, with that being said, like I feel like there should be, you know, just somebody that comes in and at least speaks to you. I've always wanted to, like thinking, God, I would love to go to hospitals and just like, you know, sit with patients before or after, um, but they don't allow that anymore. I guess they used to allow it because it's also you can't volunteer unless you've been COVID jabbed, at least at the hospitals around me. See, and you and I both wouldn't be able to do that. So it's it's like, um, you know, it's I think I think there should be some sort of, you know, prior to surgery, there should be some like the colon and rectal surgeons should say, we'd like you to sit down with a mental health person, you know, to or to attend five therapy sessions.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

Yeah. Or give them resources, like people like uh us so they can follow our content and watch our yeah, yeah. Because we address mental uh health issues constantly.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Like, yeah, it would be really nice, like if there was something like that. So I think it's best if it's people who have ostomy, because then they understand that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

For sure. We and that should be that that really should be. Um, another thing is just like, because this is something I thought um thinking back, so nostalgic sometimes when you think back, right? Even though like that part of your life may not be so good or things may have been very rocky. Um, you know, it's fun to kind of think back to that time, but like clothing, right? So no one told you like, because in the beginning I just thought, oh, I'm gonna have to always wear leggings uh from now on, but like more baggy clothes or yeah. So I was like really ready after the first couple weeks to just throw away all my jeans.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

I made the mistake of getting rid of so much of my clothes and I had to rebuild, but it was okay because I gained weight too, so I had to rebuild anyway.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Yeah, yeah. But still, like we you know, we don't all and then some you know, and then we have our our fat feeling days and our thin feeling days. Um, but yeah, just like remind like hey, don't get rid of all your clothes, like you will get back into them or you will feel secure enough to get back into them, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Yeah, a lot of them you will, even the ones you think you never will, a lot of them you will. Yeah, some you won't, but you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Um another one too is like and these should be maybe maybe this would be a common sense thing, but I don't think that they I think it should still be in this like alleged uh pamphlet that I'm talking about. But just making sure you always do have your your travel case or making sure you always have your supplies. Like it's not, it's like, especially if in the beginning your things aren't one way, and then for so like for right, so for like the first month or two, it may feel like, oh, well, this is my normal and I don't need anything going out. No, you never know. You never know.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

I mean, I told my story about at the grocery store exploding all over the place, and so like that can happen at any point, any food, a food, anything can trigger your bowels, you know, when you act in a way that gets makes them want to burrow underneath your flange instead of going into the bag like they're supposed to.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

100%. You may have a leak, you may not have the right um barrier ring on, you know, that kind of thing. So I don't think that's stressful.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

And when you're trying new products, it's more likely to happen too. That's another thing I found out.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Yeah, yeah. Um, I'm just looking at um my other my list here. So if you have another one, I'm gonna keep it.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

I mean, this one is more general about hospitals in general, but a huge thing they didn't tell me after being in the hospital for three and a half weeks on high doses of dilotid, which is hydromorphone.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Um, which is addictive. Apparently. Uh, they'd sent me home from the hospital with like a couple more days of the prescription, and it didn't tell me that there was a possibility of me have having developed dependence on it. So when I went through withdrawal, I didn't know what was going on, and I thought I was dying. That happened to me too. And I spent four days going into the hospital every day. And at the time I was like 70 pounds because I lost so much weight in the hospital from the surgery, the emergency surgery. Um, and they look treated me like I was drug seeking. And I was like, I'm in so much pain, like I feel like I'm dying. Like, do I have another bowel perforation? That's how it felt because when you go through uh withdrawal, your intestines contract. It felt similar to how it felt when I had a bowel perforation. Okay, you know, and it just was so scary. And when I finally realized that I was in withdrawal, the doctors weren't the ones that told me. I found out by researching on my phone.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

And when I realized I was in with withdrawal and I talked to my doctor, I was able to wean myself off. But then they did it again another time when I was in the hospital. I was only on Dilated for about three or four days, and they said there's no way that I could go through withdrawal after only three or four days on it, and they're wrong. They are a hundred percent wrong. And even the painers, they even sent a social worker to talk to me to see if I was mentally well because I insisted that they were incorrect and that I needed to be weaned off because I was going through withdrawal in the hospital. They just cut me off without telling me, like they cut my dose without telling me. So these are just it's so horrible. Like they basically just put you on the pain train and expect you to go through withdrawal after all the trauma and everything that you've been through.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Yeah, and then trying to do it.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

But it's not like you're the the idiot.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Well, that's just it. And yeah, like how would you know that? That happened to me after I was in with C diff because I was in the hospital for now a month being on Delauded, and then I got out, but I had I had Viking and I had whatever that in-between one is, uh, maybe Percocet or Oxies, I I think maybe oxies. Um, so every morning I would get up at home and I was still in pain. So every morning I took up took this pill, right? And when I was finally feeling better, I was like, uh, don't need anything, right? So I I I went out and I actually went and had lunch with a friend and came back. And I remember coming home and being like, something's going on in my body, and I don't know what it is. Like if there's a weird feeling and I can't figure it out. I had the yawns. Um I felt like I couldn't eat it. I had to keep eating, like there was like a hunger. So then I was like, well, let me take one of these like Vicanins, because I knew those were lower dose. So I took a Vicanin and I felt better. And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm like having like a withdrawal from not having that. So then I I just I just did it myself and I weaned myself off. I figured out how to wean myself off. But yeah, why didn't they tell you that? You know, why why does no one tell you that?

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Like, and also why do they why do pharmacists not know how to wean you off of these drugs? Like they told me to to skip every other dose. Do you want to live in hell? Then skip every other dose. No, you have to go down a tiny, tiny bit every other dose.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Wow. Um also hernias, like I don't remember anybody ever saying anything about a hernia. I have a small one, actually. Um, I haven't had to have it fixed, and I guess they don't really try to fix it unless it's like a huge problem. I mean, I've seen people in the group with massive hernias uh pictures. So, but they don't tell you, watch out for a hernia. Like I've never heard a doctor or a nurse tell me be careful for hernia. You know, so watching the way you're sneezing, even and and especially if you're gonna be, you know, working out, it's really, you know, your posture, your form, like that's super important. So yeah. Um and then I think in your case, hydration.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Did they tell you it was in a pamphlet that you know that we should be careful of our hydration? Okay, but it was an expensive. I didn't know I could become deathly dehydrated, right? I didn't know I would become hospitalized multiple times and that it would happen so fast that I couldn't stop it from happening.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Yeah. That's that's another one. Um, let's see. We talked about this the you know that you can try different systems. Um, also, though, like they don't tell you like you can mix and match the ostomy supplies. You don't have to have just one from one brand. I didn't even know that until like recently, you know.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

I'm so grateful I have an ostomy nurse, like a whole ostomy. Clinic where I go and the nurses I've developed relationships with, and they even have my I have I have my intimacy guides in their office so that they can share them with their patients. Oh, that's nice.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Oh, that's very cool. That's very cool. Um let's see. So no one talks really about, I don't think I ever heard anyone talk about like just other other remedies for like the skin irritation. You know, I don't think that's talked about enough. We talked about the skin irritation itself, but just the remedies, the remedies for some of this, you know, like those are all things that would be so useful.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Or the danger of blockages. A lot of people don't know that you can get blockages until they get a blockage. Yeah, yeah. That was me. I didn't know. No one warned me that both. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Or like um showering, like, hey, you could like take your whole thing off in the shower and just shower naked. I don't think some people still understand that they're allowed to shower naked.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

I think the first time I had an ostomy, I put plastic bag over it every time I showered for four months.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

I didn't, I don't even know what to do. No one told me. Yeah, yeah. But they I think actually I was told the opposite. I was told to cover it.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Yeah, well, no, like I had a woo a little open wound at first, and so I was told to put the bag over, but I assumed it was to cover the whole system. And so even after the wound healed, I was still showering with a bag over me. Yeah, and that was one of the reasons why I was like, I can't live like this, I need to have this reversed, I can't live like this, you know. And I didn't know I could have baths. Another thing they never told me.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

Yeah, I I know. I I thought it would be hard to like have it submerged, and that could be a problem. But no, you can swim, you can take cats, you can do all those things. Um let's see. Yeah, no one no one really talked about just um uh just I guess the discreetness of it that you know, like that it's gonna probably feel well that goes along with I think the mental and emotional is just like, you know, I think we thought that we're gonna just be constantly bluttering out and looking, you know, looking like something we don't want to, right? Like looking there, but I don't I mean you got a big pregnant belly on hand from one side. Yeah. So uh no one told us about those.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

Um no one told me after my proctectomy surgery when they removed my rectum that my vagina was gonna tilt.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Really?

SPEAKER_01 24:35

I had to find that out through a YouTube video that I watched, and then from my own experience.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

So, you know, I know this video is not about uh about that, um, but do they did they do that after you had your osmi? Was that a separate surgery?

SPEAKER_01 24:53

I had it all at once because I had like I think people, I don't know what it is like for everyone, but most of my disease was in my rectum.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

I it I had had 75% of my large intestine removed last time. They left a little bit of my sigmoid colon and my rectum. And like it just the disease was in there and I was never able to heal it. And it turned into the fistulas, which is right in the rectum area.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

And uh, and life was just became intolerable because of it. Like I could handle jumping out of bed five times a night to run to the bathroom so I wouldn't shit the bed. I I was willing to live with that to avoid an ostomy bag. That's how much I didn't want one, but I couldn't handle the fistulas, I couldn't handle not being able to have sex. Yeah, I couldn't handle like my life just being completely my quality of life just being destroyed by my anus, you know. Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Well, that's all I really have. I can't think of anything else that I mean, I'm sure I will, but like those I know, I'll probably be thinking of things all day afterwards. Yeah, that's up the top I had and from the list that I had. Um, but I think overall, yeah, there's just so many things that I wish we were told ahead of time that could have made this a little bit easier.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

And I think you had a good idea. We should make some kind of pamphlet and distribute it to like hospitals and different organizations, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

And I mean, honestly, we could come up with we could we could do like a whole Google Doc and just put it in the groups, you know, especially now with live with ostomy bag.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

But I always almost feel like it would be better if like they gave it to people in the hospital, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

No, I mean like we could get um group feedback, you know, through a Google Doc because it's like these this is like it's a collective thing, right? Because while while we all know like now the mucus thing can come up now, but like we didn't know before like all these other things, right? Or like we're like uh somebody may have a one-off kind of thing that we never really thought of. So it'd be wise to see if we can get you know other people involved in getting their their information.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

For sure. I agree. We could create something amazing, yeah. For sure. We could we could um uh take the information from this video and then ask people in the comments below and then also through uh feedback in the groups and like a Google form. Yeah, for sure. I think that's a great idea.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

Right, right. And uh we have another master class coming up the 20, what is it?

SPEAKER_01 27:37

March, March 22nd, Sunday at 10 a.m. Pacific Standard Time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

We're gonna try it on a Sunday, see how that goes. I think that's a good um good change up, see how that works for everybody. And it'll be amazing, like the first one.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Yes, this time I'm actually going to have a free giveaway too. It's an it's an intimacy menu that you can share with your partners so you could share with each other what you like. And it has lots of suggestions that aren't just penetrative, you know what. So people who can't do it that way can see there's lots of other options.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Nice. Here in the United States, and um, I'm glad we have this minute to kind of uh talk about this um off-subject, but the Medicare decision that was made was that there's going to be collect a collective bargaining agreement, meaning that um if you're on Medicaid or Medicare, you will have to use certain products. And that's very, very dangerous. Um, if you go to ostomy.org, you can actually write in to um there's undertake action. There's uh some prompts there to follow to make your voice heard because um that's something that uh just can't happen. It's not set to to come out until I think 2029 or something. It's far out, but yeah, irregardless, we can't have it happen. Like this it can't, it cannot. So but we'll talk about that more next with that.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Yeah, that has to be fought 100%.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

100%. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

I wonder who makes those decisions. Like, I feel like like Bobby Kennedy is someone who could be reasoned with if you could actually get in touch with him, but I don't know if he makes those kinds of decisions because he obviously has hired a bunch of people who make a bunch of different decisions.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Right. I I feel like some of these things are done through committees, so it's like there's you know congressional committees or that form, but I bet not one of them has an ostomy.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

Right. Like talk to people, nothing about us without us.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

But and we have like we've honestly like the UOAA has done a lot on it, and um, I know other groups have made their voice heard, but I they clearly just it didn't matter. So but we can there's still time to hopefully get it changed again, so we'll go from there. But no doubt.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Yeah, otherwise come on up to Canada.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

I know, right? I'm thinking actually, well, well, I'll we'll talk off camera. I gotta tell you a little little something.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

Awesome. Well, thank you. I had fun today. This was a very interesting conversation.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

Yes, very good, very good.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

See you next week.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Bye.