Inside the Power of Unions | Chris Swanson & Shawn O’Brien (Part 1)

In part one of this episode, Chris sits down with Shawn O’Brien to discuss the role of unions and the impact of the Teamsters. They break down what organized labor means for workers, the challenges facing today’s workforce, and why representation continues to matter in today’s economy.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You've heard the stories. You've heard the stories about the Teamsters. You heard the stories about the original Jimmy Hoffa. You heard the stories about strikes. You've heard the stories. Today, you meet the man in charge, the general president of Teamsters International, my friend Sean O'Brien. Thank you for another episode of the Working Class Podcast. Welcome to Genesee County, my brother. This is awesome, man. That's how I appreciate it. I like the decor.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

You got the pallets, old school. That's it. We're in a fancy. We're in a warehouse. You don't get any better than this. That's right. That's right. It's more blue call than I've ever been on any show.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

See, and this is what you see not only in front of the camera but behind the scenes. No, no. What you see is what you get, my man. Thank you. I appreciate it. What just happened in the last two hours that you witnessed and I witnessed? I mean, outside of your dance moves, I did do that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Mario's all jealous, Mac. He did some good dance moves. No, I mean, look, we're out here. We've got 750 nurses on strike. They've been on strike for seven months. Uh Henry Ford uh is the hospital. Uh complete corporate greed. Um, no respect for the people that make them the success that they are. Uh they brought scabs in day one. So we're out here just trying to um keep our people motivated, make sure that they're here one day longer, one day stronger, um, and just making sure we win this fight. And yeah, people like you, you've been uh rock solid. I mean, you got not much going on. I mean, you run a you run a sheriff's department and you're in a in a big race politically, and you're there every single day on the line supporting these people, and uh we appreciate it. But yeah, it was a great day. Um, you know, saw some good dance moves and uh got some people motivated, but more importantly, I think we agitated uh the hospital, which that's what we're supposed to be doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

So, as of this podcast, it's day 212. They started on the first of September 2025. As an organizer, your whole life, you've been in the game for multiple generations. 35 years. What does a strike do to move the needle in negotiations? Well, strike is a last resort.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

You know, we always go to negotiations from a position of strength, and that strength is the uh fortitude that the rank and file members uh provide to us. And there's times when and people always ask me, Are you gonna strike a company? Are you gonna strike this hospital? And I always say to them, Look, uh striking is a last resort for us. If these corporations are dumb enough to not give the people that make them the success that they are, not reward the people that allow them the balance sheets that they obtain, if they don't want to give the people what they're worth, then they're choosing to strike themselves. Um strikes are necessary. Uh sometimes, you know, there's certain situations where the threat of a strike is more effective than the action. But unfortunately, in this case, uh you know, they just showed total disregard for their workers and uh you know, they're paying the price. I mean, they can't be operating efficiently uh as they would be if the right people were back in there working. So um, you know, the strike's tough financially. Luckily, we're an international union that has $375 million strike and defense fund and it's growing. Uh so we're able to supplement uh the income of these folks, the men and women who are on those lines every day with a thousand dollars per week, which has to be the richest strike benefit out of any international union. And it's very sustainable, and we're gonna continue it and uh hopefully we're gonna be victorious. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

And I love what you said today. Like you're out here every day, and you're gonna be out here the day you walk them back in, you know, as far as the teamster. That is a is a movement. They out in labor, we always talk about solidarity. And what is solidarity marrying to you as the general president, which is overall the teamsters throughout the nation? When you hear that word, what does it mean to you personally?

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Well, yeah, it's the only word that matters. I mean, because you're only as strong as the weakest link. And if if people aren't unified and they don't understand what solidarity is, more importantly, they don't understand what some of the sacrifice you're gonna have to make. I always tell people, look, we're only as strong as our weakest link, and understand situations are critical. Um some people have never been in these situations, uh the uncertainty of the strike, um, but at the end of the day, if you don't have uh a cohesive group, uh solidarity is paramount, and it's all we have left at the end of the day. I mean, look, these corporations can outspend us, uh, but the one thing we do have is integrity. Yeah. And we do have, you know, I always call it sweat equity. And we have hot, we have determination. And you can't you can't put a price on hot and determination. And you know, it's a tough situation being out there. You know, I I talked to some nurses today who are very uncertain about the future, and they're like, is this thing gonna end soon? I'm like, We we are doing everything we can uh in Washington, DC, putting pressure on the NLRB to uphold some of these charges and get this you know corporation back to the table. But when you see you know people, the men and women come up to you and they're like, I'm not sure what I'm gonna be able to do. I've I've I don't have any health insurance or you know, how long is this gonna last? Uh, you know, I I really can't support it. That hits home. And it's always easy to say, you know, you gotta be strong, you gotta be strong. But the reality is, you know, it it's a tough situation, but it's necessary. Yeah. I mean, I always tell people, you know, sometimes there's gotta be some, you know, um pain for long-term gain, you know. So um but I I'm optimistic if we get the right rulings out of Washington, DC, yeah, that these folks will get back to the table and uh get a deal and uh put our people back to work by the virtue of this, and you're already right.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

212 days is a long day for a strike, long days. And uh how does somebody who's not involved in organized labor look at labor across the country and benefit from it? How does it help everybody?

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Well, I think it helps because look, when you see people out there fighting and they're they're making their demands, they're demanding their worth. I think you know, you're always gonna get your people that'll say, Well, what do they get for being out for 212 days? Well, they're getting respect. They have integrity and they're fighting for what they believe in, they're fighting for their future. So what does a strike do for the people that aren't in a union? It it I think it emboldens them moving forward that, hey, if in the event that I'm in a situation where my employer doesn't respect me and or is not uh giving me what I'm worth, then I know that I could form a union and I know that I could take it to the street and demand what I'm worth. And that's why it's important. Like you look at this situation here right now. If we had stronger labor laws, if we had uh stronger uh enforceable labor laws, there hasn't been any labor-friendly laws passed and or uh policies that have been worker-friendly over the last forty to fifty years. Wow. They've all been employer employer-driven. And that that it doesn't matter if you're Republican, Democrat, or independent. It's just big business has controlled everything as we see in this country. And I think right now we're in a position where we are starting to take back what we deserve. And you know, we need change, uh, but we can't wait for it, so we have to take it.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

I love that. Can't wait for it, it's got to take it. And I think that's important that when you see somebody on a strike line, that's why the honking of the horn, the thumbs up means so much. And when you have an employer, you saw this with General Motors, you know, with the big three. When you take on a an establishment, it it causes other establishments to think, hey, we need to treat our employees better, we need to make sure that they have fair contracts and fair wages. I think it'll boast.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

This situation is gonna help us tremendously with the Corwell nurses. Right. We organized 10,000 Corwell nurses in 2024, and when we talk about labor law reform, we're trying to have a bipartisan legislation pass right now, a faster labor contracts act. If we had a a bill and a law like the Faster Labor Contracts Act enacted two years ago when we organized Corewell nurses, we would have a first contract right now. Yep. And that's why that's important. But to your point, when you see someone taking on labor and you're an employer, maybe in the same business or a different business, and you have a union contract, and you see the fight, and more importantly, you see the ability for people to survive and not be compromised financially, you're gonna say to yourself, I don't want any of that. Yeah. Like, what do we need to be doing different to avoid that so that we can treat our workers with respect, with dignity? We can reward them with what they are worth. So, you know, there's always a benefit to a tough situation, and I think your average employer does not want any of this.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Yeah. And those employers aren't successful without those employees. There's no employer that's successful without employees. 100%. I mean, in where we are doing the studio, I have, you know, my wife's business here, she's a CEO, and she's only one person. She needs people who are driving the fork truck, people that are that are actually making those those connections. Uh, I I will tell you, you know, when you look at what the Teamsters have stood for and the fact that nurses are out there, these are people who are, you know, CCU nurses, ER nurses, don't mess with nurses in the country. So shout out to all the nurses. They're the rock stars. Yeah. You're the backbone of healthcare.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Well, that's the problem. You know, when you think about it, you look, you know, we're the same age. So you look at, and you you were active growing up, so you spent some time in the emergency room. When you were going to the emergency room as a kid, you didn't talk to the administrators. No, you didn't talk to anybody, right? You talked to nurses and doctors. That's right. And my point is when nurses and doctors ran hospital, they didn't care about the bottom line of a balance sheet. They actually cared about the patients. And that's what needs to happen. They need to allow nurses and doctors to start running hospitals again. You know, they got all these, you know, private equity or corporate America involved there, and and that they're not about they're not about care. And I and you know what's funny? How does the public the general public and the general public's been great up here in Michigan? I mean, they've they've been great. But overall, when you're talking about care of babies, children, elderly, like how do you not embrace the best care? How do you not embrace this cause that's like, come on, you know, you could be there tomorrow, and you're right. You want someone that's going to be happy at work, that you know is being well paid, but more importantly, that cares. Like these scabs they brought in, they're prostitutes. I told someone this today on the line, I said, they're not here because they are passionate about, you know, the the the community that this hospital services, they're passionate about lying in their own pockets. That's a worse form of a person to be representing your hospital, but more importantly, waiting on sick people. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Yeah, the intentions are not pure. My my uh my daughter-in-law is a nurse, and I she goes in an hour early before her shift. She works 12 hours, she stays an hour late. They're getting 13 and a half hours for a 12-hour pay. She works hard because she loves her patients. That hospital's been there since 1997. It's treated, you know, thousands and thousands of patients per year. They're gonna get the contract. But what's interesting is the teamsters are not just nurses. You guys start out as transportation labor. One of your biggest contracts in my generation is with the UPS contract. Yep. Tell us about that.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Well, UPS is our largest employer, but you know, the history of the Teamsters Union has always been trucking. I mean, we started out as a horse and buggy, you know, two horses, thunder and lightning, uh pulling wagons, pulling wagons, uh providing goods and services. And, you know, we've had to evolve uh as a union, and luckily um we're a little bit different than most unions because we represent everybody, and I always say this everybody from airline pilots to zookeepers and everybody in between. Um, so we're a very diverse uh union, and our eggs aren't all in one basket. So um, yeah, no, I mean it's it's it's the best union four generations. This this union's given me everything in my entire life, and you know, uh I'm a very loyal person, uh, sometimes loyal to a fault, but look, I I want to give back to this organization everything it's given to me, and then some and uh make it bigger, faster, stronger, and leave it uh better for the next generation. Uh I love it. I love the union. I love the teamsters. Um there's no better. I love when people like recognize you and say, hey, you're on the you're the union guy. I go, no, I'm the teamster guy.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

I love it. I love it. I'm not the union guy, I'm the teamster guy. That's right. I love when people ask me, like, hey, what do you do? I as the sheriff, I'm like, oh, I'm a deputy. Yeah. I mean, uh yes, I'm always saying I'm a truck driver first. Oh, there you go. I'm a truck driver first. Yeah. And then no idea.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

I've seen you speak at the RNC, you're not a truck driver. No, I was though.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

And then I could pull the video and show him driving a truck just happen. Just to show some street cred.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Well, I can tell you that, you know, when you look at the Teamster history, and you know, you talk about thunder and lightning. And, you know, I remember when I was there in DC and I met with you at your office the first time. You have a uh a grand lobby, you should see it. The the building is amazing. You overlook the Capitol, but on the first floor, you see all this artwork, and uh you see a guy who's hauling it looks like some fruit, a little kid. And I'm told by the people that were there that that's Jimmy Hoffa. That that's an example of how he was hauling fruit for people in a cart. Is that is that an accurate depiction of that mural in what he did?

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if that's exactly Jimmy Hoffa, but that was that that was the error back then. That's how that's how goods and services were provided. Um, you know, when you think about it, you know, if there's this threat of AI and automation and technology, and people are like, Are you scared of AI and technology? And I'm like, Of course we are. I said, but we've got to find solutions to problems. And they go, Well, what do you mean? I said, Look, look where we started. Horse and buggies. You don't think we were scared when they invented the combustible engine or the diesel engine and or started creating trucks? Of course we were. But we had to figure a way to create jobs as a result of it, and that's what has to happen. But I love our history. I mean the teamster history is phenomenal. Oh, yeah. And it's unfortunate that that you know, more history about unions are not taught in schools uh and universities. I mean, labor is the most important part of this country. Labor built the United States.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

We're talking pre-1900s, that's when labor unions started to form. That's like when government was formed. You know, the sheriff's office has been here since 1836. Shortly thereafter, I mean, you look at you how far how long you've been, you know, the operators, the iron workers, you know. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

And uh we go back to 1903 when we were we were established as an international union. So when you think about it, that's a long time.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

And I hope people catch the fact that you said you're fourth generation. So it was you, your dad, your grandfather, and your great grandfather.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Well, well, there's five generations now. Five. My uh my oldest son is uh is a teamster as well. Oh my gosh. But none of them really held office. I'm the only one that you know, my grandfather was a business agent, uh, my mother's side, but I'm the only one that my father was a rank and file, my brother's a rank and file. Uh my son's a rank and file member. So there's five generations right now.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

That's amazing. It's it's hard for anybody to deny your strong Bostonian accent. That's awful.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

I always tell people it's a speech impediment.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

It's great, dude. I'd love for you to like do my voicemail just to be just tougher. There's something about the East Coast that just if it now in the South, yeah. We're arrogant. We're arrogant. Self-proclaimed.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

No, I'm telling you, like, and and it's not not a bad thing. It's like, you know, you're from the East Coast. You're either Italian or Irish. Yeah, yeah, 100%. But like people will be like, oh my god, you're from Boston immediately. Like I'm like, no, we're not, we're just we just come off as arrogant. We're pretty nice people.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Yeah. Is there still a true rivalry between uh, you know, like uh Massachusetts and New York? Is there what's the what's the beef there? There's no there's no competition. I mean, just look at our sports teams.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Um yeah, there's always gonna be the rivalry, but New York's a hardworking uh uh state. I mean, New York City is is great. Yeah, it's pure chaos. I mean, Boston's a small city compared to that. Um, but you know, we all there's always gonna be a rivalry. I was just telling someone I went to the Super Bowl to watch the Patriots. Uh we were hopefully they were gonna win, but they didn't deserve to win. But everyone's like, how is it how are the fans? I'm like, all right, we were in, you know, San Francisco. I said, the fans from Seattle were unbelievable. I said everybody was very, very nice. I said, now if we were playing the Giants, it probably would have been a lot uglier than it was.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Oh, yeah, crazy. I had to compliment the New England Patriots for getting back to the Super Bowl after everything was gone to rebuild it from nothing. You got to give them credit for that. Obviously, as a Diehard Lions fan, I was, you know, like Well, you guys have a great coach. Yeah, yeah, Campbell, man, is grit.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

I mean, Rabel. We have Rabel. Yeah. And those guys, and you know what? I try and uh lead the union the same way that they do. And I mean, we're out there and in in, you know, I I don't want to be sitting at my desk. No, you know, uh being a uh a bureaucrat or something. I want to be out like we were today, walking a trick in line with 750 nurses, or I'll go out and work a day delivering liquor or throwing rubbish. Um, you know, you want you want to demonstrate that you still have the ability. Right. Plus, you know, I mean it's a little bit of our egos too. I mean, when you think about it, we're not we're not embracing mortality well. Right. You know, why we're fighting the clock every day. It's awful. It's all 50's the new 20. Yeah, yeah. Well, I don't know about that, but it's it's it's awful because you know, you look at, you know, you want to gain the respect of your members, right? Always. And it's not just because you're getting in the best contracts or you're organizing new members. You want to let them know that you know what they go through every day. Like, I want to see what you go through. I want to do your job so I get a better understanding of what your trials and tribulations are so that we can, you know, formulate a strategy to fix them in negotiations. Uh and it's great too. I I have a blast, I'll be honest with you. I um I just love being out talking to people, being out picking lines. I mean, we were talking shit today on those lines. Like, and I'll tell you the the the women nurses they say some words I don't even understand. They make somebody from Boston blush. Oh my good God. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Don't mess with middle nurses. You name it. They were they were they were they were saying it, but but there's no better failing than that.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Yeah, and I think people that you serve, when you're on the front lines, it's command presence. It it keeps you in touch with what they're going through, like you said, but also we take um, and I think guys like us that are leaders, we take uh our physical presence and our mental sharpness um as an advantage because you got to be on your game. How many people in the Teamsters act as retirees right now? Oh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

I mean, we got 1.3 million members.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

They're all counting on you.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

They're active. They're all counting on you. Add 1.5 belly buttons to that too. Yes. Because if you got 1.3 million members, add another 1.5 belly buttons. Those are spouses and dependents. You know, you you can't you can't have a bad day and blame it on oh I had a bad day, or like I can't sleep in. I can't sleep in in the morning, so I'm tired. I because you know what, there's people out there that depend upon us to be out there making the right decisions and fighting. And um, you know, it it it's it's rewarding, yeah. Um, and and it's motivating at the same time, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Yeah, it's um you know, heavy is the crown, who wears it. Right. And uh I was talking to Harbaugh, I became friends with him several years ago when we launched Ignite.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

What did I just say? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Probably out in California. You gotta get him back in the gym.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Oh yeah? He's strong dude, though. Oh, he is a big dude. Yeah, he's strong dude.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

He's got that gear. He's got a gear. You know, you know, I got close to him uh clearly because I've been an international vice president, but I knew those guys um and I I think I first met him in 1999, and then I launched this big charity for uh autistic children, which evolved to the autism community as a whole, children, adults, and programs. And uh he came to me one day and he was talking to me. He's like, I appreciate what you're doing. And I'm like, I don't know, but listen, this is the right thing to do. He's like, which one of your boys is autistic? I said, None of them. He's like, What are you doing it for? I'm like, I'm doing it for because our members and our members' grandchildren. There seems to be a pandemic uh of people getting diagnosed with autism, and you know what, we're the most influential union in the country. If we can't move the needle on this, no one can. And that's where him and I formed a real that's his kind of style right there. Yeah, and he's he's a good guy. He really is.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Yes. Before we do uh we leave this uh our time together today, we'll shoot a picture and I'll send it to him and you said it. Yeah, he'll like that.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Local 25, 33 years old. And you know, I have this motto which I'm trying to get away from because my partner in life doesn't like it. I said, I'd rather ask for forgiveness than permission. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

And that's how I've lived my life. That's it. And trust me, you're a lightning rod. We all see it when I miss the country. When I came out there's always stories coming out, man.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

So when when I came when I came in as a young man, like they they they they embraced me, you know, because they were part of the inner circle with Hoffa Jr. and all that stuff. And I wasn't, you know, once you're a threat to someone, yeah. Once you break the establishment. Yeah, they you know, they kind of, but these guys never waving on me. And they, you know, Hoppel and Mike Mathis, Mike Mathis' dad was like the GST, um, but um That Secretary Treasurer. Yeah, they were good guys, and uh they kind of got shafted. And uh, but Chuck's always been rocksaw loyal and uh he he he cares and he's compassionate. Matter of fact, I think he had a client that wasn't Teamster friendly, and he fired his own client because of that. So that just tells you what type of guy he is.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

That's it. And it tells you what kind of guy you are for doing uh you know millions of dollars of fundraising for autism, uh for people because your members have family members that need to be taken care of.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

We got into it real quick. So I it's a great story because I love telling it. Number one, but we built this program up, you know, to a point where we were making a we were raising a million dollars a night on our signature event. And it was just people were so generous. We kept the event. The event was like a probably one of the top attended venues in Boston. But we made it $60 a ticket. So it was affordable, right? Outright. Huge, huge event. Um, so everybody says, Why did you get involved in you know autism? You they assume you have a child with it. And so when I took over, I had I I was responsible of the health and welfare fund. If we took over a health and welfare fund that was losing money, it was $80 million. And I'm like, we gotta change this. So we did a little bunch of changes while we're redesigning the program. I'm looking at all this cost associated with child psychologists and all this stuff, and I'm like, I probably violated every HIPAA law there was. I said, What is this? Why is why are we spending so much money on this? And they're like, Yeah, there's a it's people getting diagnosed with autism. Like, well, members, kids, they're like, Yep, and grandkids for the retirees. And I'm like, Well, what's our charity of choice right now? And it was diabetes, yeah. So us being the type personality now, we're like, tell them stop eating donuts, go to the gym. And so I changed the charity from you know diabetes to autism. So we kill it the first event, and second event, third event, my son's nine years old at this time, and you know, I get a call from my ex-wife at the time, and she's like, you know, I'm we're on our way to children's hospital. I'm like, why? She's like, Oh, Sean just got diagnosed with uh type one diabetes. No way. My 90-year-olds, uh, my nine-year-old son, who is, you know, very he's in good shape. Yeah, athletic. It's just genetic. And here I am going, I must sound like a real jerk saying, you know, these poor poor people with diabetes, like, lose some weight, stop eating donuts and get in the genetic. Until it hit you. I didn't realize it was a type one. Right. And so everybody's like assuming I'm gonna change the charity back to diabetes. I'm like, this isn't about this is a bigger than one person. Thank God there's strides have been made in diabetes where kids can can lead a normal life and everything else. No, we're not gonna change this. So it was just ironic how that happened.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Yes, it was. Yeah, that is a crazy story. It's insane. And you guys have raised millions and millions of dollars for autism awareness and support.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Yeah, and Tom, and Tom Murray, who uh took over as the president of Local 25, has done a great job of continuing us, continuing the uh the charity, and uh it's great. And you know, we we shifted the focus because you know, when you're involved in a big charity, like we always thought, hey, let's give the money to autism speaks. Yeah. So wouldn't the majority of our money the first four or five years would be going autism speaks, and then you know, that research part of it's great. Yeah. But then, you know, I'm sitting back thinking, going, We're the most influential, you know, institution in the city of Boston in Massachusetts, local 25. I'm like, we gotta start putting this money into the communities because remembers research is great. Um, but these programs, these local programs where we can buy tablets for autistic kids, where we can provide support animals for them, you know, we were getting more, it was it was more fulfilling. Um, I wouldn't say rewarding, but it was more beneficial to the community than it was given all this money for research. Because research is gonna happen no matter what, and it's important. But people would refer to autism as you know, an illness. And as I got to meet a lot more people in the community, as I got to meet a lot, when I say the community, the autism community, as I got to be involved in a lot of these programs within the community, I used to tell people this isn't a disease, this is a lifestyle. Yeah. And we've got to find programs that make it easier. So then we started, and we were geared towards the children, right? At first, like take care of these kids, and these kids are gonna grow up. Right. So then we shift focus and we help build adult housing programs uh for for children that transition uh into adults that that need a place to live. So it's evolved, it's been great, and um I love it. I love the world.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Well, I tell you, we um we just launched uh a program in the sheriff's office where we were giving out stickers, and I got this idea from other sheriffs and throughout the country I met with you know people that uh are battling contusion. Contusion, yeah, not in this one. He's showing up. Shout out to P Contusion, yo, right there. Yeah, the uh man, that's the tallest sheriff in uh the state of the massive country. Uh but you know, autism stickers to let officers know that, hey, before you go to the car, there's somebody in there that could be autistic. So slow your your conversations down, talk quieter, don't use a lot of hand motions, just be sensitive to it. It's programs like what you're doing, what other people are doing that are doing a great job, but switching gears back to uh Medford, Massachusetts, and all your homies from Massachusetts. One of the best. It is amazing. Marty Walsh and Peter Katushin, all the people that when I was on your podcast were naming that we know what is so special about Medford and Boston, Massachusetts.