Inside the World of Reptile Rescue | Chris Swanson & Pam Drake

In this episode, Chris sits down with Pam Drake, a passionate reptile rescuer and animal advocate, who brings along one of her rescued iguanas. Pam shares how she got involved in reptile rescue, the unique challenges and rewards of caring for exotic animals, and why education and responsible ownership are so important. From fascinating reptile facts to heartwarming rescue stories, this conversation offers a unique look into a world most people never see.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Yes, this is exactly what you think it is. It is a real reptile. And yes, this is very new to me. So that's why I am laser focused on not moving. This is Juno. That's Juno's mom, Pam Drake. And when I talk about protecting my pets, that means every pet. Even the ones that are a little bit uncomfortable for me to hold, but they're a pet nonetheless. Pam, thank you so much for joining the Working Class Podcast. And uh you've got three on you right now, and that's not even all that you have. So we're gonna talk about that. Let me put Juno up on my shoulder because I think Juno likes. Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. Hold on.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

She'll just snuggle in. All right, there we go. There we go.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

There we go. And you know what I heard last time is uh you said when you put them on your hand, they can't feel the heat from the body, so they need the heat from the top. That's why they like coming up on the neck, right? See, I learned.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

All right.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

Yes, that's true. Um, bearded dragons sense sense heat on top, and that's why it is never a good idea to use the heat rocks. Right. Heat rocks are terrible and they malfunction. And it's been close to 20 years I've been doing rescue with these guys, and I have seen some that have had their stomachs so burned because they don't have the sensory system for the heat. Right. And then their third eye on top, which Larry's, you can see the best, but they all have the little third eye.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

And that helps them with regulating their heat and seeing if you know shadows come over.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

Right. Did you know have a third eye?

SPEAKER_03 1:31

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

What do you think the third eye is seeing right now? Everything good?

SPEAKER_03 1:35

Her next governor. Ah!

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Oh, what a great line. And I don't doubt it because um you have been uh with this campaign for over a year. We hosted the first event in your backyard, and that's where I met your husband. And uh the fact that you are so good at exampling what the ground game looks like. And a week ago I did uh uh an interview at Wood TV, he's down on the west side, and uh Rich Albin is the guy's name, and he's been doing it for 40 plus years. And as I was walking in, he's asking a few things, and they got to stay neutral. He said, But you know what? What I have learned over my 40 years is the ones who work the hardest win primaries. He goes, because primary voters are different than general voters. They do the research, they look who shows up, they watch where they are, the rest of the state, and they don't want anybody to take advantage of them or to dismiss them that they don't count. So I say all that to say since I was there at your house, I've done 1,400 events, I've driven 87,000 miles, and you have been consistent the whole time. And when you talk about this campaign and what we're gonna do, on average, because I know it's not gonna be unanimous, how many people are excited about this opportunity to be for me to be the governor versus nah I don't want them?

SPEAKER_03 2:50

Oh man, most people that I talk to, they're just like, oh yeah. And then it's like people who say they're undecided, and I tell them about you, and it's like, oh, okay, he's got my vote.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

There you go. That's the power of the voice at the ground game. And and Rich talked about that, your husband, that you know, you need to just continue to just work and work and work, and that's that's what matters. And then do shows like this. We do these shows because when we talk about protecting pets or we talk about protecting people, uh, these are the kinds of things that that people remember. It's like that's the guy who had a bearded dragon on the left shoulder, and that's Pam Drake who had three reptiles on her.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

Always have at least.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

They're not gonna forget this show. Now, you call Larry to your left Larry, but it's actually Larry Ann, because you didn't know Larry was an Anne until years later. Right. Tell us the story.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

When I've my father had just died, and I run a group on Facebook called Drama Free Dragons, and we have a picnic at our house every year, and we've had people come from all over the U.S., from Manchester, England, and from uh Sweden. And so it's just really cool that we we have all these people that come. And uh my friend Kristen, who does reptile rescue as well, she had Larry Ann, who was smaller than the dragons at the time. And she, you know, she brought him in. We didn't know if it was a boy or a girl, too young to tell with an iguana. And my father had just died, so I wasn't gonna do the picnic, and I decided to do it because he would have wanted me to. He's the one who got me loving lizards. Yes, he didn't have any, except when I was little, when I was really, really little, he had some salamanders, but my mother said, no, we're not keeping those. But my dad's the one, he moved out to Arizona, and I saw ghila monsters with him and all kinds of stuff. And so he had just died, and we had the picnic, and Kristen brought this little iguana looking for a home. And we really had to talk my husband into it when Kristen said they could get, you know, to be eight feet long. She's only just under, she's just under five feet, though, from head to the tip of her tail. But um, I named her Larry after my dad, and then a few months later, I just got the vibe she was female.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

And I was like, hmm, well, I'm not gonna take dad's name off. So we added Ann.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

That's amazing. How old is Larry Ann right now?

SPEAKER_03 5:09

11.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

And uh, where does she sleep at night? Ready for this?

SPEAKER_03 5:13

In our bed. That's crazy. She sleeps with us, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Nestle's right up to you.

SPEAKER_03 5:16

Oh, just like this. That's how she sleeps all night. Or if I lay on my side, she lays on top of my side.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

Yeah, she she does. She's a she's a smug above.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Doesn't a go on to that size eat and how often?

SPEAKER_03 5:29

Oh, she eats lots of um vegetables and fruits, but she also likes pancakes. So once in a great while she'll get a blueberry pancake, or she loves pizza. And since I'm a vegetarian, you know, when she smells that pizza, she comes running.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

And my husband eats uh the uh funions and the quesadilla flavor. Oh yeah. And she loves those too.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

My gosh. Now the other two, those are bearded dragons, correct. And they're both rescues?

SPEAKER_03 6:04

Um, yeah. Well, yeah, there are people who gave them up to me because they couldn't didn't have time for them. So I guess you can say that, but they didn't have come with any health issues like many rescues do.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Right. Like Larry has some health issues, some physical issues, right?

SPEAKER_03 6:19

Larry had she only has three fingers on one toe because the person that had her before my friend rescued her, the toes got broke off and had burns on them. She had burns on herself. Cigarette burns, it looked like.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Right. So now, when I talk about protecting pets, and I've been a champion of that for years, but we try to launch legislation to establish a registry that if you beat, torture, or starve an animal to death, and you're convicted, that there's a certain period of time based on misdemeanor, felony, or multiple offenses, that you're not allowed to own an animal. And we also wanted to change the language of how the state sees pets like this, because under the law they're called property, not living property. So we want to redefine them as living property. I love that. That way when we rescue, instead of spending time at shelters and animal controls, we can put them into forfeiture process and get them rehomed in 22 days. Now that we try to get it through the legislature and it died on, you know, lame duck in 2024. But don't you think there's value into holding people accountable about also making sure they don't re-offend? Yes. And there's a list that they should go on. What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_03 7:29

I agree. I think it's fantastic. I know that um I get really frustrated because so many of the pet stores, too, they don't have these guys in proper, they have tiny little things, a whole bunch of them together. And you know, they they throw great big crickets in there, and the crickets actually will feed on the lizards when they're sleeping. And the crickets also, they're too big, and they and if it's wider than this space between their eyes, you should that's the rule of thumb. Wow, okay. Is when especially when they're little, you know, you you they put crickets in, you see crickets this big, and the dragons only that big, and you're just like, and and they put them on sand, which is terrible because bearded dragons have sticky tongues to get their prey, and so that builds up inside of them, and then they become impacted and they die.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 8:20

And they also have respiratory infections and kidney problems, all kinds of things from loose substrate, right? Crushed walnuts, sand, Kelsey sand is the worst. It turns into cement in their bellies.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Wow. Most people don't know that. No, but there's a lot of abuse that goes on.

SPEAKER_03 8:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

That's why holding people accountable because there's a direct connect between animal abuse, domestic, child, and elder abuse.

SPEAKER_03 8:43

Absolutely. Absolutely. People start when they're young with animals, and it's like, oh, then they get some sick satisfaction, I guess. I don't know. I can't relate to it. Right? Right. I carry bugs outside when they're in the house so that they, you know, instead of killing them.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

So well, you are definitely a a special person to take care of rescues, let alone reptile rescues.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

There's a large group of people that do that as well, that are in the rescue world. Do you communicate with them outside the reptile genre?

SPEAKER_03 9:11

A little bit, a little bit. Um, there's lots of people that will reach out to me that I don't even know where they get my name, but though I'll get messages on Facebook, hey, I heard that you, you know, and if I can't take one in, because I've only got so much room, if I can't take one in, I find someone that can.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Right. When you uh are thinking about being a rescue and you're just trying to get up and running, there's a lot of people out there. Do you think it makes sense to have the state partner with animal rescues to help them financially? Oh, that would be amazing. Wouldn't that be? Yeah, it doesn't have to be much, but you spend all your money and whatever I have left over to go rescue these animals. When people are doing that for dogs, especially or horses, they go out and they use a lot of their own resources and then they'll take them and they'll spend their own money. I always thought, why isn't the state partnering with them in order to make sure they have even just a little bit of extra help to know that they're not alone? Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 10:10

Absolutely. I mean, because the electrical bills, you know, the electrical bills are phenomenal when you have reptiles because you have to have UV, and it can't be the small little coil bulb for dragons. No, these guys are desert animals, they come from the deserts in Australia, and you have to have the long light and you have to have the UV because if you don't have it, they're gonna get metabolic bone disease.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Wow, and that goes across every type of animal that people are rescuing. And I and that's why by encouraging people who do it right, not everybody does it right, but for those that do, when you get that level, you should be rewarded by the state being a partnership. And I think that will save so many different animals. Plus, we add on top of that the list, we add on top of that rehoming them to people that want to take these animals in. And then now we shut down the abuse as much as we possibly can. I love it. And then whoever's doing, you know, whatever they did to get there, we're holding them accountable legally. So uh there's a misdemeanor felony charge on it. That just, like I said, it makes sense to me on multiple different levels. Why is it that you are so supportive of this campaign? And when we call it the working class, like this podcast, the working class, and I even told you about this next phase, the working class revolution. Why does that bring joy to you?

SPEAKER_03 11:33

Because it's not about the billionaires who have all the money, who are just getting all the tax breaks and getting everything while everybody else starves and can't buy groceries and can't afford gas and everything else. And you will be great at protecting us from that.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:48

And I appreciate that. You know, and you are so positive. You and then people say, Oh, it's phony. I'm like, you don't know him. Right, right. But what you see is what you get. You you remember people's names. You have, you know, you remember things about them, you care about people, it's genuine. You can feel your energy, it's genuine, and you are like probably the most energetic person I've ever met.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

I can't turn that off, yes.

SPEAKER_03 12:14

Yeah, and I I just think you are like a breath of fresh air. Thank you. I mean, with what's going on at the national level, especially, we need somebody like you who's not gonna not gonna let us get screwed over. I mean, I know Gretchen's doing a great job at everything that she can, and we need to have that continue on, and you are the person to do that.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Thanks, bam.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

When you uh are talking to people and they're looking for that exact same thing, because that's that's my driving force. I have to get over some obstacles, and a couple of them are funny, but one of the biggest myths is there's no way he's like that. There's no way he has that energy, there's no way he's like that off camera. And I try to tell people, I've been this way my whole life. I used to get in trouble for it in school. Now it's my profession. This is exactly who I am. The second thing is they just rip my jeans and my hair. It's hilarious. It's look at his hair, look at his jeans. So we embrace it.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

It's yeah, we embrace it. You know what? When you have trolls getting on your page, that means that they're they're jealous and they're afraid. They're afraid. So they come and they troll just to try to be, and it's like you are such a positive person and you're everything they can never be, because they're just trying to look to cause trouble.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

And you know, for somebody who's seen and experienced so much death and violence in my life, you know, last week I started my 34th year on the job and I've seen a lot of bad things. I choose to be this way. I I make a decision. I'm like, nope, this is the way I'm gonna respond. Because especially leadership, you set the tone of what you want the people that are around you to feel. And if I just hated life and just was miserable and everything is pessimistic, then everybody below me and aside from me is gonna have that same mindset. So that's why I'm like this because I want to change the way things are being seen. We have so much division between parties and people and and positions. I'm like, that's it. Unity means that we come together, find common ground. Doesn't mean uniformity, but it means unity. Another topic that I know you are extremely involved in is the mental health and the drug addiction world.

SPEAKER_03 14:15

Yes, I I um I just retired. I've been doing um behavior therapy for the past several years uh with autistic kids. And the clients I had, I had one that was really young, but most of them were like 20. The other I had a female for three and a half years and uh a male for a while. And it's just important that people with mental health issues like that get the help that they need. And if people who have who have uh kids have somebody with um, you know, autism, if they get them in just a second, please. Rich, can you please put him?

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Is he feisty?

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Yeah, he might have to go to the bathroom. So we we'll put him in his cage.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Yeah, I noticed he was moving everywhere. Yeah, and he was getting the other two all riled up.

SPEAKER_03 15:06

Well, and you know what's interesting is that these two are both males. And usually in and everybody says males can never hang out together. You've seen they were just hanging out, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Got it.

SPEAKER_03 15:17

But that's what one thing about a bearded dragon. If they have to go to the bathroom, they will do that to get off you because they don't want to potty on you. Oh, wow. So that's really nice.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Good, yeah. Thanks for telling me that. Appreciate that.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

She already went.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

I got it, I got it, I got it. Nice, nice. Thank you, Juno. Appreciate that. All right, I won't do it to you if you don't do it to me. We got a deal going. But there's a there's it's sad actually that you retired because there's a big void that unfortunately people like yourself who have experience and a passion, but the need is still there. Do we have people that are coming up that are like you that want to do it?

SPEAKER_03 15:50

Sure, sure, sure. There's a lot of people that do it, and it's um it's just sad though that a lot of people only do it for a short period of time because you've got to build the stability with your clients so that they're they gain their trust and everything, and you're working with them for several years. But I'll tell you, that job made my heart happy. Just made my heart happy. When I first started working with my last client, she would she would read like, I see a cat. And by the time we were done, we had read, she had read out loud to me the whole Narnia book series. Oh my gosh. Yeah, and um, it was just amazing.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

How long a period of time was that?

SPEAKER_03 16:32

Three and a half years.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

So in three and a half years, you went from barely enunciating a sound to reading Narnia. That's why that peer-to-peer mentorship is so important. It is very important. We did that in the jail. We have a program where we have reading uh literacy mentors that are incarcerated mentoring other incarcerated inmates, and it has proven to be so successful. Absolutely. We graduate them, we recognize those mentors, and they're both in you know, jail, but they help each other. That one-on-one is so key.

SPEAKER_03 17:01

And not only that, you're building self-esteem. And when you build self-esteem, because I worked in a similar program and in Lansing that was funded by um MDOC and and taught classes on you know job preparation and job skills and just certain life skills. And it's amazing when you help people, and these are some of the reasons Rich and I support you. You know, we saw you during COVID when that woman who was a prost who who had to prostitute to feed her kids, yeah, and you were defending her. And I sorry, I've just got to fix my shirt here. But uh, you you were defending her, and because it was the situation, and you said this is this is a woman who's having to do this to feed her kids, not because she's a criminal. Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

And wow, that was six years ago. You remember that?

SPEAKER_03 17:53

Yeah, that's when we've been fans ever since.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

And when you did the the uh Black Lives Matter walk, right, and just different things that just really resonated with me, like this guy's amazing. So I appreciate it. So we would hear you on the news and we'd both be shh shh, Chris is talking, you know, because it was so cool. You you have done things that other people haven't, right? You have taken things to different levels, you look for solutions, you look for this is a problem, okay. Everybody knows we've got a problem, but how can we fix that? And you don't think, oh, I'm it's just me, I have all the answers. No, you go and talk to everybody else and you say, Hey, I know that you have experience in this or this. What can we do? And then you can get all this information, and then you put it all together and try to come up with solutions. And that's what we need, right? That's what we need so bad. And you're you come from the heart, it's not just about power and me, me, me. It's about making everything better for everyone.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

That does that fills my cup. And uh, you've been in the business of politics for a long time.

SPEAKER_03 19:05

Oh, yeah. I used to, I used to work for the Michigan Democratic Party. I was a field organizer, and I've I've run lots of campaigns, federal level, state level, city level, for lots of different people, and you know, done a lot of field work and and uh when people are talking politics regardless of sides and they say the word establishment, is it real?

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

And they say the word machine, is that real?

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Yes, yes, it is.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

I don't think I'm neither uh of those.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

That's that's why you're an amazing person. That's why you're gonna be an amazing governor, because you're not you're not gonna be owned by anybody. You're gonna care about everybody, and if it's good and it's right, like the fact that you would come out against ice was amazing because most sheriffs would be afraid to, even if they knew in their heart of hearts the fact that that this is American people being killed and tortured and hurt and uh coming up missing, terrified, intimidated, exactly, exactly, and children, I mean it's terrible, and you didn't care if people got mad, you just spoke the truth, and it takes guts to do that, it takes leadership to do that, and we just we just think you're the most amazing you're the amazing, the most amazing candidate ever.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

When people, without mentioning names, or people say the word establishment, describe that for somebody who's been in this game for more than two decades. What does the establishment mean?

SPEAKER_03 20:43

Establishment is like the the old smoke-filled back rooms where people make decisions based on money and based on who they can get to do favors and things like that. You know, um you are not like that, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:00

I pay a price for not being like that.

SPEAKER_03 21:02

Yes, but you know what? Anybody who has a brain in their head is gonna say, This is my guy. Yeah, this is the guy to vote for. This is a guy that it because to you, you don't care if it's somebody who's got a million dollars in their pocket or ten dollars in their pocket or ten cents. If they say to you, Mr. Swanson, could I speak with you? You're gonna be like, sure. Yeah, sure, absolutely. What do you need? What can I do to help? And that is true leadership. Are you cold, Larry?

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Oh, Larry's, yeah. Larry's active today.

SPEAKER_03 21:35

She's she's just hugging me. She's cold.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

When you hear the word machine, what is the machine? And do you think media is part of that machine?

SPEAKER_03 21:46

Yeah, I do. I do. I think media is part of the machine, and I like the fact that you're doing your media online instead of on TV. Because you know what? People when they're online, it's because they want to be online and see what's going on. When people are watching TV, they want to watch shows. They don't want to see all these political ads.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Uh-huh. And speak it.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

And I love that you don't do that because there's certain people, I won't mention who, that every time their ads come on, we're just like cringe.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:15

You know?

SPEAKER_00 22:16

I can only imagine. There might be 47 reasons why you say that.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

I look at it as because I there's somebody does mention that number in one of the ads I was thinking of.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Yes. Yes. You know what though? I I try to tell people that this campaign from the beginning, it's 16 months now. It'll be 17 months in uh in uh July. And by the time the uh the election is here, I'll be out of my 18th month. And I've said we're gonna rewrite the playbook. And we don't know what it's gonna be like at the end of the day, but our entire campaign is based on going after the people that have been frustrated, divided, forgotten, people that are the working class. Even if the working class person is a multimillionaire, if you you you're our people if you know where you came from and you didn't forget, it's not about a money, it's about the hardworking people, those that have no allies, no uh, no voices. That's been my whole life. And that message, Pam, across the state has just like touched people's hearts 100%. And, you know, we've clawed our way to raise money, we've clawed our ways to get on the the ballot. You know, we had 28,306 signatures accepted with an 83% validation rate. Like 83%.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

I both ours were all valid.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Oh my gosh, yours were a great. We had three, four hundred volunteers, and on top of all of our other helps. I say all that because uh, you know, when I hear people or I talk to people, whether it's window or market or monro, there's more that unites us than divides us.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

And and there's a lot of things that people are looking at and they're just looking for something different. And you see that throughout the state is these elections that people are see are getting into and across the country, the unorthodox candidates are the ones that are rising to the top and are making a difference. And so I just want to say that because I think people need to hear some from somebody other than me that the establishment's real, the machine is real, and when you go against that, you better be able to take the shots in the chest from your enemies and the knives in the back from your friends. And at the end of the day, it's still worth it. And and people need a voice out there. If not me, then who? If not you, then who?

SPEAKER_03 24:21

Right, because that way, you know, when you lay your head down in your pillow at night, you can sleep knowing that you were you, you were doing everything you could to make the world a better place, to help a person. Because to me, if you can't help people, what's right, the point of getting up?

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

I mean, I try to help people with their reptiles, I try to be there for all my friends, you know, um, whenever there's any issue or people I don't know, and my husband's the same way. And it's just it's impossible.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

It's the American way. Help your neighbor, it's the biblical way. Love your neighbor as yourself.

SPEAKER_03 24:56

It's the humanistic way to be instead of to just say, oh, well, this person is gay, so I hate them, this person's black, so I hate them, this person's, you know, Jewish. I am so tired of all these hate, hate, hate people. You and the majority of the RSP just think that, you know, because we have this clown in the White House who is destroying America in every way that he can. It's it's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking, it's heartbreaking that all these things are happening because of one person and then all the people who've allowed him to be that way.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Yeah. Division, I've said this, division has been given permission. And unless you're going to bring an antidote, it will continue to be the narrative. I don't accept that. And and the only way to fix it at the top is to start and claw your way up. Exactly. From sheriff to governor, and that's the that's the pathway we're on. And uh, I know you can't fix everything because I say you got to control your controllables. And what you just you know told the the viewers and the listeners is that this is real, but you've got to do your part. You know, it's like I said on that light poll at the George Floyd protest, I can't do everything, I can't bring him back from the dead, I can't fix race relations that have been broke down for decades, but I'm gonna do my part. Right. I'm gonna do my part. If I do my part, you do your part. Now we become transformational.

SPEAKER_03 26:15

Exactly. It's just like if people, you know, like a lot of times we hold doors for people and people are like, oh, thank you. They're shocked. And it's like, but I remember as a kid when you did that, I remember standing outside a church holding the door for a few people and end up standing there forever and ever and ever because you know, and it it's it's just like you have to be the best you can be. You have to look at yourself for the answers, not always on other people. But when you have leadership that has those type of yes, basic sensibilities, it's really gonna make a big difference.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

It's I uh I gotta you just had a flashback to my my growing up. Uh I'm the youngest of four, and uh my dad would always tell us, not encourage us, tell us to go help our neighbors. We lived in Goodrich. And um, we would never be able to accept money. And at little as a little kid, you know, you'd be wondering like why? And even if they gave us money to go do it, my dad would say, Go give it back. You didn't do it for that. I did not accept money for a job until I started my own lawn service at 13 years old. And so you talk about holding the doors. I give a lot of credit to my mom and dad, especially my dad, because whether it's shoveling people's driveways with a shovel or doing something, I'm not trying to sound, you know, like you know, 1950s because I was born in the 70s, but that that established something inside of me is when you serve people, you do it with no strings attached.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

And random acts of kindness should come with just a good heart. Absolutely, not a spin or an intention. But that, if you're listening right now, we didn't like it at the time, but it was a great lesson. That's what servant leadership looks like.

SPEAKER_03 27:53

Exactly. My dad was a dentist in Eaton Rapids, and he um he did a lot of stuff for people like the migrant workers that came to town and the Head Start people. And actually, he could have, I can say this now because he's passed on, he could have been in a lot of trouble because he would only charge them five dollars and bait, you know, and Delta Dental and other places would come in to look through all your files. So we had to keep those down in the basement. But my dad said, This is what you're supposed to do as a Christian person, yeah, this is what you do, and and my dad never, ever, ever, I never heard any racial slurs of any kind until I went to school.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 28:38

And I mean, you know, and I came home and said, What's that? And my parents were like, a word we never use.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

Right.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

You know, because it was just, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

It was, it was He sounds like a great man.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

He was. My dad was amazing. Right. He was an amazing human being, and that's why she's named after him.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

I love it. I love it. You know, we talk about legacy. I just did a uh a talk at a um uh at a uh a graduation of a uh a class that it's not quite adult education, but it's it's in those gap years, 17 to 25, where bad things happen to good people. And I went to this graduation, there's 128, I think, 130 graduates, and uh they just made it to the top. And I talked about legacy, it's what you leave behind because nobody got where we are right now without somebody leaving something behind for us, and that's kind of like what you're talking about for your dad. And and going back to this whole campaign that I'm doing, and and the fact that your dad, Dr. Larry, left something for you, so you owe it to leave it to those kids that are reading from cat to narnia. I owe it to do my part, and that's a good driving force. It is. If somebody is struggling to find out how they can pour into someone else, what do you recommend they do? If they're like, I don't know if I'm good enough, I don't know if I have a skill set.

SPEAKER_03 29:55

If somebody wanted to be the Larry to somebody else, do you know basically it's like what is your what brings you happiness? Because if you find if I if you might want to go, like if you like gardening, you could go to somebody's house who's who used to garden all the time and now they can't, and you can go clean up their rose bushes or whatever. If it makes you happy to cook, make some meals for some people you know are having a hard time and take them down. You can do anything, and and you know, my mom had a saying that I always loved. She said, the person that gives the roses has a scent on their hands much longer and is much happier than the person who receives them. Nice because um it just I don't know when you can do for other people, it's a gift for yourself, right? And if people aren't in that mindset, I feel really bad for them if they think that everything has to be about well, if I give you this, what do I get? Right, that's sad, that's sad, yeah, you know, because uh there should not be a scoreboard or anything, it should just be I want to I want to help people. I mean, that's what Jesus said to do. Take care of the least of these, yes, yeah, do on to others as you do on to me, yeah. And that's the that that's what a real Christian is. It's not a Christian national.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

There you go. Yes, exactly. Hey, uh, we finished these podcasts with a couple personal questions, but before I do that, I just want to say you've been an encouragement to me. We didn't know each other personally until we uh shared spaghetti at uh Shawasi County at the Duran Depot. That was the first time I actually really connected with you. I'd known you beforehand and you introduced me, but that was like when I think our uh our our friendship really just blossom. So I just want to say thank you. It's been over a year. When you're running a race like I'm doing, I describe it as a full-fledged UFC fight where you have certain rounds because the rounds are gonna end on August the 4th. And anytime there's a round, even if you win that one, you're still gonna get punched. There's rounds that you actually may not win at all. And the score goes to the other competitor. And then there's rounds you're just gonna win it. But at the end of the day, the fight's still going. And it's people like you that are in my corner that allow me to keep going and going and going. So I just want the world to know I appreciate you. Oh, appreciate Rich. And uh these are those faces and names that when I'm driving two and a half hours by myself, I I flash back. I'm thinking, man, we can't forget those people because this is an army that we're on. It's not Chris Swanson running for governor, it's the silent majority. So thank you.

SPEAKER_03 32:25

Oh, well, thank you. Thank you for doing it. Yeah, we are so excited.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

I have nothing else to do. Yeah, I figured, hey, why don't I just like you know, upheaval my life and have my wife go into uh, you know, hiding when there's threats on her and we'll just see what happens. But that's why we have tether. So anybody who threatens, at least we know where they're at. True story. It's all good though. It's all good. They gotta sneak up on me to get me. Uh, what's the favorite artist in your life? Who would you love to go see and have seen?

SPEAKER_03 32:56

Rod Stewart's definitely been on my high one since ninth grade. And I think I may have told you the story that this is a good one. We went to his concert. Um, my siblings all went in when I got my last degree that I got and bought me a tickets because I had a cousin who had tickets that she was selling, and our tickets were for up in the balcony. And I asked Rich to go with me, and he said, No, I'm not gonna have you all all saying, Oh, look at Rod, isn't he gorgeous? And punching my arm. So you're gonna have to get one of your female friends to go. And so I got a friend of mine who has a same birth date from high school, and we went and we were singing and dancing in the hallway before it even got started. And this man came up and he had a Scottish accent, he was about Rod's age, and he started talking to us. Oh, yeah. And I knew he was with him, I just knew he was, and I could see the outline of the all access. Oh, yes, and I was like, and my cousins, who are not very pleasant people sometimes, I mean, they just think cynically, it's very cynically, not optimistically. And the the my one cousin's like, Who is this? What are you? And I'm like, Didn't you have to go to the bathroom? Yeah, right. And then we talked to him. Yeah, and he said, Are you girls gonna be singing and dancing through the whole show like that? And we go, of course, it's Rod. And so he said, Where are you sitting? We said, We're up in the balcony, and he traded us our tickets for first row center, and my cousins got to come along.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

Oh, okay because of you. Yes, there you go. Yes, that's a good one. Well done, well done. All right, so Rod Stewart, he's coming to concert in Michigan. I don't know if it's June or July or August.

SPEAKER_03 34:36

September.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

September? Okay, I've never seen the billboard in Lansing when I was driving by. Are you gonna go see him? Oh, he's coming to well, maybe there's two of them. I was thinking of the way the billboard was in Lansing, I don't know where he's playing.

SPEAKER_03 34:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Is it is it Sorn Eagle? Is that where it is? Got it. Sorn Eagle, there it is. Are you gonna go? Maybe Rich?

SPEAKER_02 34:53

I hope so.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Rich. All you need is buy one ticket. I'm not going by myself.

unknown 34:59

Should take your buddy with her.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 35:01

Take Larry or Lori, who is my buddy that we have with me.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

There you go. Uh, what's your favorite restaurant of all time?

SPEAKER_03 35:10

Oh my goodness. Favorite restaurant of all time? That's hard. I used to love emos and lancing back in the day, and that's where Rich and I had our first date. So that will always be special to me. But they kind of went downhill and then, you know, which is sad.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Right?

SPEAKER_03 35:28

And that was a great restaurant. How about you? What's your favorite?

SPEAKER_00 35:32

My favorite of all time? You're gonna make fun of me. The barrel. The cracker barrel. I'm not kidding you. Jamie drives her crazy. She likes the food there, but when I need to go to like my happy place, I go to the barrel. I don't care, but it's gotta be at night, it can't be during the day. And it's gotta be a window seat, not in the middle, because I'll go nuts. And I love the corner, and I sit there and I walk through the store, then I go have something to eat, and I usually get the catfish, and uh I enjoy the broccoli and the biscuits and the gravy with a little bit of that jelly, and then she'll get the chicken with them big fat steak fries, and we'll just have a great time. Then I'll leave and I hang out at the store again, and I just watch everything because you know my favorite, one of my favorite things to do when I travel is I love going to old town grocery stores.

SPEAKER_02 36:20

Oh, yeah, I love grocery shopping.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

Kroger, I love it. I walk down the cereal aisle, and it is like my it don't don't bother me at the cereal aisle. I do the same thing at the barrel. And uh, so if I ever want to just go someplace, just have fun and know you're gonna enjoy the food. And when they try to change it all, I was one of the revolters. I'm like, don't do that, don't keep it the way it is. And they did.

SPEAKER_03 36:42

Well, that that um what is that? The red olive that has great food too. Have you been there?

SPEAKER_00 36:47

No, I've not. No.

SPEAKER_03 36:48

They're they're in uh Howell, Brighton, and Heartland, I think. Maybe, maybe, but right, yeah, their food is really good, and you get it, you get big portions, and it's really good, and the service is great, and the prices are reasonable.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

There you go. See, there's ours. Um, what is uh your favorite movie of all time?

SPEAKER_03 37:08

Rocky Horror Picture Show.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Oh, nice!

SPEAKER_03 37:12

Went into labor at the Rocky Horror Picture Show, like during the movie or at the hospital? No, I was at the movie, at the midnight movies, and and uh yeah. Interesting, yeah, and I waited until the movie was over, even though I'd seen it about a hundred times before I left. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

You're a champ. I love it. All right, you are uh on stage and the whole country is watching, and you have 30 seconds to give them a message, and there is no distractions, and they're just watching and listening. What would you say to the country?

SPEAKER_03 37:46

I would say people, we need to stop listening to the BS. You need to look further than just one media source, you need to listen to and and believe in what other people who are victims are saying. You need to listen to victims because uh you're victimizing again by not by not believing them and by believing someone who's a con artist over these people who have been victims, and we are all victims because of this, and so please everyone is he head bobbing.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

Yeah, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_03 38:23

Oh, he's my feisty boy.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

He's oh my gosh, does that mean he's about to attack the guy across the street No?

SPEAKER_03 38:30

Does he have a black beard?

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Yeah, he does.

SPEAKER_03 38:32

Okay, he's looking at her.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

This is nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:36

This is this is what bearded dragons do.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

So he's flirting, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:40

And she's turned around and looking at him, so she starts swaying her head like this.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Yeah, we don't know what's about to go down, but it won't go down on my shoulder, I can promise you that.

SPEAKER_03 38:48

No, or my lap. That's right, it's not going down anywhere. This is why I gave you the girl and kept the boys over here. That's right, that's right. Except for her.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

Yes. Um, bottom line is look out for other people and be the voice of the voiceless. Would you say that?

SPEAKER_03 39:04

Absolutely, 100%. Because, you know, uh these people who at the end of their life, I mean, you look at Jimmy Carter, he is one of my biggest heroes ever. I mean, that man lived in that tiny little ranch with his. And they did so much. Oh, because Juno, she's just turning around to look at Jesse.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

Yeah, and Jesse's looking at Juno. Yeah, I see this. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 39:31

But um, Jimmy Carter, he was amazing. And and being on the board for Habitat for Humanity, right? I I really appreciate it. Correct, yeah. And I, but I mean, you want to talk about what a true Christian is? There's nobody more of a true Christian than Jimmy Carter. He lived what he believed.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

He lived until the day he died.

SPEAKER_03 39:51

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:52

And he could have done so much stuff for so much money, and he didn't.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

He didn't have security or nothing, just went about his business.

SPEAKER_03 39:59

Yes. He was amazing.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:02

That broke my heart when he passed.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

I tell you, it's been a joy and an honor. And uh thank you, Juno. Thank you for uh keeping it contained. And uh the little man over there, we're gonna put you back in your box and uh you guys can work it out together, all right?

SPEAKER_03 40:16

He's actually been being really good.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

Okay, good. Thank you for everything. I uh I hope this episode just really encourages you. The working class podcast is there to hit on a lot of topics, including the rescues involving bearded dragons. See you next time.