All My Friends Have ADHD
I talk to interesting people with interesting brains about ADHD, their careers, and how they've managed to make it all work. New episodes every other Monday.
All My Friends Have ADHD
#9 - Svet Jacqueline (American documentary photographer based in Ukraine) in Kyiv
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Svet Jacqueline is an American documentary photographer based in Kyiv, covering the war in Ukraine for the Wall Street Journal and others. Before Ukraine, she covered BLM, migration at the US-Mexico border, and wildfires. She was diagnosed with ADD at 11 — more than two decades before this conversation — and has spent her adult life building the systems, workarounds, and hard-won self-knowledge that keep her functioning in one of the most demanding, unpredictable environments on earth.
This episode is a little different. Recorded in Kyiv, it's as much a conversation between two friends and colleagues as it is an interview — two conflict photojournalists with ADHD comparing notes on what it actually means to live and work this way. They get into the particular chaos of freelance life with ADD, what it's like to be diagnosed as a child versus an adult, why weed makes everything worse, the relationship between risk-taking and ADHD, medication dependency and what happens on the days you forget it, visual memory so sharp Svet once recognized a stranger on a New York street from a single glance at a painting four years earlier — and Laurel's theory that the closer you get to the front line, the higher the incidence of ADHD among people who don't have to be there.
🎙️ Guest: Svet Jacqueline — documentary photographer, Kyiv, Ukraine. Work published in Wall Street Journal and others. Previously covered BLM, US-Mexico border migration, and wildfires.
🧠 All My Friends Have ADHD is hosted by journalist and filmmaker Laurel Chor.
📍Recorded on July 24, 2025 in Kyiv, Ukraine
📝 Description generated with AI assistance.
Watch episode videos on YouTube
Follow us on Instagram: @allmyfriendshaveadhd
Follow Laurel on Instagram: @laurelchor
New episodes every other Monday.
Um, I wanted to ask you, do you have the um productivity euphoria? Do you know what this is?
SPEAKER_03No, what's that?
SPEAKER_01So, like, for example, if I'm having one of these days where I'm really just not getting a lot done or I'm feeling very underwhelmed, undermotivated, and I send one email or I edit one photo, I get this like euphoria of like, oh my gosh, I've done it today, you know? Wow. That is just so disproportionate to the fact that I really haven't done a lot of the things that I need to do. That's so great. It's great, except for when you're like, I'm gonna go celebrate.
SPEAKER_00And all my friends have ADHD. All my friends have ADHD. All my friends have ADHD. All my friends have ADHD.
SPEAKER_03Welcome to all my friends of ADHD. Thanks so much for being here. Here we are in Kyiv, Ukraine, where we met, right? Yeah. I was actually thinking about this. I don't remember when we first met. Do you?
SPEAKER_01Um well okay. I I remember generally speaking when we met, like around when it was last year, right? But I couldn't- Was it last year? Was it already two years ago?
SPEAKER_03Oh, I rem no, it was we didn't meet in Kyiv. We met in Donbass.
SPEAKER_01With Wolf. Right. We met at that coffee shop across the street from your apartment in Krematorsk.
SPEAKER_03Uh, the Aromakava? Yeah. Oh, yes.
SPEAKER_01With was Was it Aromakava?
SPEAKER_03I don't remember. Cool. Neil. Anyway, but then we gave you we wrote we drove all the way back to Kyiv together.
SPEAKER_01That's true. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I remember. Yes. And that is how we got to know each other. Yes. Yeah. I think it was 2023. 2023.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
unknownAnd it's 2023.
SPEAKER_01Time flies when you live in a war zone, you know?
SPEAKER_03Time flies in general.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So by way of introductions, Fett is an amazing documentary photographer and photojournalist who is, of course, covering the war here in Ukraine. Previously, you covered BLM, you covered the uh migration along the US border, and you have an incredible body of work. And here you've been mostly working for Wall Street Journal, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but I am fully freelanced, just like most of us. Available for assignments. Absolutely. No, but I do think that in terms of when we're talking about having ADD and like choosing a life of freelance, it's an interesting choice for us.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I feel like it's the only choice.
SPEAKER_01In a way, it it feels like it's the only choice in which we can exist freely in our own spaces in our lives, but it also almost creates this platform of challenges that most other professions don't have that are extra hard for us. Yeah. That we then are like, oh.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Wait, like what?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I just think that it everyone's different, right? And the type of ADD or ADHD that you have is different. But sometimes even like very like vinyl tasks, like sending emails, can be more challenging. And most of what we do is communicating through following up, sending emails, pitching ourselves, promoting our work, things that require us to stop wake up motivated and do all the things that our brains are like, oh, this is not really our favorite task. So I love that a lot of people who are freelancers have ADD because it feels like it should be the opposite.
SPEAKER_03Right. That's true. Mary HK Toy, who was a guest on another episode, she said she took her meds on days she had to do sadmen. Oh yeah, it is sadman.
SPEAKER_01It is sadmen. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So how do you then motivate yourself having to do those things?
SPEAKER_01Well, what I if we can circle back for a second, because I feel like what when you asked me to do this podcast, you had told me that you were just recently dying. Oh, I was diagnosed, or maybe it was in the past five years.
SPEAKER_03I was diagnosed when I was like 30.
SPEAKER_01So right. So in as an adult, right?
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_01I was diagnosed when I was 11. Yeah. So it has been over two decades that I have not only known that I've have a neurodivergent way of thinking, but I've been medicated for it. And I think that when I was growing up and I was younger, a lot of what I relied on was either my parents or the medication. And I think that moving into adulthood, one of the I guess hardest things I had to overcome was the fact that a lot of coping with ADD is creating systems for yourself and forcing yourself to adhere to your what works for you. And I feel like that is how I motivate myself, is mainly because I know that if I don't do it the way that I've taught myself to do it, it's never gonna get done. There's nothing coming to save you at the end of the day. And you just have to.
SPEAKER_03Right. Right. Like what what other option do you have? Yeah. It's such an interesting relationship, I think, that people with ADHD have with discipline, right? And structure. It's like we need it, we have to have it, but it's also the hardest thing. We hate it. Yes. Wait, so tell me about your systems.
SPEAKER_01I want to know about your systems. My systems. Well, I think that for a while um I had an allergy to having any kind of system. Um, I don't know whether it was like a resistance to feeling like I had to do things differently, or simply just that I didn't have faith that consistency would work. And so now, you know, my bags, for example, when I go out to shoot my camera bags, my personal belongings, everything is organized in a very specific way. And I always check. The second that I move my card holder to a different pocket, it's lost. It just, it's just how it is. Like I once you find something that works, you can't you can't change it. If you don't put your keys in the pocket that you always put them, you're gonna be searching for them an hour later on the street. Yeah. Yeah. And I've just been taught this so many times in my own trial and error that now it's just you can't change it. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's so interesting because it's like, yeah, when you've had that awareness about yourself from basically your whole life, right? Then you just know that you have no choice but to adhere to the systems. Totally.
SPEAKER_01But just because I knew my whole life, it still took me well into my 20s to like really develop something that was effective. Right. And for me to understand that the only way for me to move forward is to do it this way. Yeah. So I think what was really cool is that when I was sort of navigating this unknown period, I went to like adult ADD classes.
SPEAKER_03No way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. So I was living in Los Angeles at the time, and um, something that I had with my insurance, which health insurance is very important for people with ADD who are prescribed um anaphetamines because you can't really get them anywhere else legally unless you have certain insurances. So I was trying to make the most of this thing that I was paying for, and um, they had these adult ADD classes. And so I would go, it was once a month, we'd sit in a circle, like very AA sort of talk about your week. And it was really interesting to me because it was the first time that I had seen people who had late, late in life diagnoses. In my bubble of experiences, I just thought that like it was something that you, when you're a troubled child in your teens, they diagnose you and then you um grow up understanding that. But I I I heard so many stories of people in their 40s, people in their 50s, people who had been divorced multiple times, who had lost lots of jobs. I mean, really this darker side of not coping or managing ADD well that opened up a lot of just clear realizations for me that I needed to get it under control because the result of not doing that is right.
SPEAKER_03It's really so there were sort of like warnings for you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it was also just really heartbreaking, you know, to really understand that there are people who go their whole lives thinking that they simply can't do something about how they are, and it's just because they don't know what's going on in their brain.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So was there something happening at the time when you felt like you needed to get your shit together or I think like general maturity um growing up?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I also I feel like I was in this very independent, I've always been very independent, but this like extra sense of independence where I was like searching for my own identity and really wanting to dive into documentary storytelling. And I I just think that when you really find a passionate thing in your life, you you you'll do anything to figure out how to make that work. Um, and for me, I realized that there were a lot of steps that I had to take that I maybe didn't realize. Um, and I was like, I need to fix A, B, and C, I need to figure out, and I just had to do it because if I didn't, there was just no way to get to the end goal.
SPEAKER_03Right. Because at the time you were doing commercial work, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, which is a lot more structured, but I was still freelance working for myself. But I think that I don't know, just because I was doing a different type of photography, I was still living a very sort of unpredictable lifestyle and like going on trips. And I think that what really makes creatives with ADD particularly excel in certain fields is that we are just so curious all the time. Like we always want to have the greatest experiences and push the most out of what's presented to us. And I think I've always been like that. And so no matter what I was doing in my 20s versus now, I was still like pushing the envelope in every area of my life and applying that mentality to something that was like very important, um, allowed me to like kind of get control over it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So, what was that transition for you like? It sounded like you're like, okay, I want to get into documentary photography. There's a path forward that I need to take and I need to do it. Like, what was that like?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I started doing journalism really, I would consider it late in life. I think that now I see that there's just a much wider age range of people who get into this field. But I was in my late 20s. I mean, I was 28 or 29. Um, so I already felt very much behind the ball. But um, I think you and I both have like this competitive spirit about us that we, you know, applied to athletics in a former life, and now we just are like, how much can we do and how committed can we be to do the best that we can do in whatever we're doing? So that was like really the big switch was that um I felt behind, and then I was like my whole my whole focus became um doing this work and transitioning into this lifestyle. I just started working like all the time. Yeah. Just going and doing it really, and and learning lessons the hard way, which I did, which we all have to, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, I mean, I just decided, I woke up, I was like, I'm gonna go cover this protest, cover this neighborhood, cover this wildfire, cover this global issue, and it just compiled. And um, as I got more and more photography experience or journalism experience under my belt, um, then also came these like new lessons of how to be a professional in journalism, how how not to lose my memory cards or format, or you know, now I just have four backup systems for everything. But it took years for me to get there and create those strongholds for myself. And I think that has a lot to do with ADD.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. So I still want to hear more about your systems. Like, are there apps or like daily routines or or notebooks or yeah.
SPEAKER_01And notebooks. I'm bad at notebooks too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I some people are still good at notebooks. I'm jealous of those people. Um, I I used to like start 20 diaries when I was a kid. Like it would have about one entry in it, and then I wouldn't write in it for like six months, and then I'd get a new book. And then, you know, so I I still think that we have to lean into our strengths and what what we like innately. So for me, what are a lot of my systems? Okay, so for example, um, I I think that lists, I always make lists.
SPEAKER_03You handwrite them?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I do, or I'll put them in my notes on my phone. But I found that apps, anything that I have to do an extra step to like to open or it creates the way that you interface with it, don't really work for me.
SPEAKER_03Any friction.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, because then if for whatever reason the app glitches, I'm done. I move on. You know?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, day ruined. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01It is that simple. So um, yeah, I usually stick to a very basic level technology input when it comes to uh planning out my days. Um and then with images, for example, like I am incredibly litigious about how I'm storing, backing up, saving. I lost a lot of hard drives at the beginning because my brain just thought of it as a secondary act in telling a story. Like if you go and you shoot the images and they're great, or you you get the content, then you've really done a good job. But you can't stop there. And you I I've learned in this job that there really isn't ever a stopping point. Like there's always more that you can be doing. And so I, you know, back up the memory cards as soon as possible to a little drive. Then I back them up to a another drive. So I have two copies always. Then if I'm going into a red zone, I have a copy on me, and I have a copy in Kiev, and I have a copy in the hotel that or wherever we're staying, and I have the iCloud storage, and I have a like massive sort of data set at my parents' house. It's crazy, but I just I think that anything that's crazy wrong will go wrong with ADD, you know, like anything that can is gonna happen. Don't think it's true that like, oh no, no, it does, it's going to happen. And um, I think I just got burned one too many times that now I'm like, no, it's not, it's not gonna happen.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. I feel like so much of for me, right? Have only getting diagnosed relatively late was just like I mean, I I feel like for so long I was fighting against myself, right? Or like I would, you know, everything that could go wrong would always go wrong. And I'd and I'd be like, well, I'm a fucking idiot, you know, that was my fault.
SPEAKER_02And that's huge with ADD.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. It's always our fault, but it's actually not our fault. Um, but I think now that just having the diagnosis was just like having this framework to be more empathetic with myself.
SPEAKER_01Did you see a psychiatrist? Like, how did you get so into the realm of getting diagnosed?
SPEAKER_03It was a bit of uh a journey. Um, but basically I went to a psychiatrist for an ADHD diagnosis. And I left his office with no ADHD diagnosis and antidepressants. He basically didn't believe me. Oh, I felt like he had a point, especially at that point in my life, I'm like, okay, I don't think he listened to me, but I'll take the antidepressants. Um, and I ended up being on them for like four, four and a half years until just a year ago. And but then a couple years after that, yeah, like I went to other psychiatrists, but it was finally my my GP, like my normal doctor in Hong Kong, who was like, I told her about all this, you know, how I'm struggling getting a diagnosis. And she was like, Well, you know, if you think you have it, you're an adult, yeah, I trust you, then why don't we just put you on meds, see how you react, and and we'll go from there. And I was like, oh, that's such a simple solution. And and the meds, you know, wasn't that straightforward either. Like it took me a while to find the right meds, but yeah, I was like, oh wow, this is really helpful.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And I think that's what's tough, right? Because ADD or ADHD sit at a nucleus of three other diagnosable things, right? You have anxiety, you have OCD, and you have depression. And it is more common than not that if you have ADD or ADHD, that you also have one, two, or all three of these other things in some like presentation. So I think that leads to a lot of misdiagnosis. I also think that it has led to a lot of speculation in the medical field as to whether ADD is like DSM5 worthy, or um, and I also feel that we live in a very different world now than we lived when I was diagnosed. You know, like I don't even know if my parents had cell phones when I went into the doctor's office. And now kids are given a distraction. That's what it is. It is a distraction. Yeah. Um, and we are we exist in a world that is so heavily rooted in distractions. Yeah, so I think it's much harder to gauge what is internal and what is external. Um, so it must be difficult to receive it as well.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, especially now, right? Everyone's like, don't we all have a bit of ADHD? Or like, I can't focus either. But the thing about anxiety, I thought it's interesting, right? Because when you do have ADHD, you are always like just one forgotten step away from some sort of disaster, right? And so I feel like anxiety is it's a coping mechanism, it's protective in a way, right? You need you kind of need to be a little anxious in order to prevent the possible disasters that you would walk into otherwise, right? And I feel like that's a tough balance, right? Am I being anxious or am I just anticipating?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that's totally fair. And I also think that I grew up with a really anxious parent, and so I responded that by being anti-anxious. And you're right, like anxiety helps protect some of the things that ADD like creates in the in the chaos world, and my lack of anxiety made it really hard for me to cope with that part of it because I refused to get anxious because I was surrounded by so much anxiety growing up, and I think that in a way that led to a lot of early, early on mistakes.
SPEAKER_03You had too much chill.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes, and that it was it was problematic. Like, not to say that I'm so chill, but I just think that my approach to things with overbearing, anxiety-driven upbringing was like, I want to do anything but that. And yeah, you have to be a bit unchill when you have ADV because otherwise you're just gonna do nothing.
SPEAKER_03So, um what do you remember about getting diagnosed?
SPEAKER_01Um, I remember that I went into a psychiatry office. They had me like sit down and just talk to this guy. I think his first name started with an H. I don't know why I remember that. But um, no, I remember like driving to the first appointment, it was pretty obvious. I don't think that anyone was really like, here, here's our question mark, you know. I I I'm very early on showed very severe signs of ADD. And so I think that this was really more of a step forward for my whole family. Um, and we didn't go in being like, oh, what's gonna happen? It was more like, okay, what is he gonna tell us to do next um with this diagnosis? And I think it's really important also to like separate the concept of what it means to be diagnosed with something and what it means to have an illness. But I don't think that ADD is anything close to an illness. I think diagnoses is like a very um conservative term. If anything, it's just a neurodivergence. And when I was diagnosed, I don't really think that I thought much of it. I was a kid.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Did it like tell you? Like, like, so like who was the first to clock it?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I guess like the doctor is the first person to tell you because he calls in your parents and he's like, I am giving you this prescription, and we need to figure out what the same to you, what medicines work, and how we how we treat this moving forward.
SPEAKER_03But like, do you remember like the the process leading up to it? Like, do you remember being in school, feeling like like did teachers come up to you? Like, what was it like you because you said you were super obvious?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I think that it I just remember a lot of arguments. I know I I hope like um, you know, I don't shame any of my family in saying this, but I do remember it was just a really tumultuous upbringing for me. Um, and there was other things that led that like um contributed to that, but from my own perspective, I remember just a lot of arguments with my parents where it was more so, why can't you figure this out? This very simple seeming thing. And me just not know, like, I don't know, you know, like doing your homework or losing stuff, losing stuff was huge. Yeah, and we're talking really big things, like a flute. It is in a hard case, and you bring it to school every single day. How do you leave it on the bus and in the cafeteria and the playground and the thing? I left it somewhere different every day. Yeah, I was there were zero, zero times that I was coming home with that flute. And it it was just, I think for people who maybe don't have this way of thinking, it is impossible to conceive that you can go somewhere and leave without something. And not realize it immediately. But for us, it's, I mean, I could go date until I need it again, I'm not gonna know that it's not there. It's just not gonna happen.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, and so yeah, it was a lot of those types of things. I think that in learning settings, um, luckily I've always been really good at learning in school. I've been very just academic, but the way that I would take in information had to be while I was doing something creative. So, like, I don't think I ever got a B, but I had to be drawing while we were doing our lessons. Or I had to be like playing this game thing while I was in math class. And I it it was things that were not necessarily disruptive, but like teachers didn't want to deal with, they were like, she's not paying attention in class.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_01And I'd I'd sit there and I'd be like, Well, if I'm not paying attention, why are my grades not reflecting that? Clearly, I am paying attention. And they would be like, Well, if she draws, then everybody's gonna want to draw. And it's like, okay.
SPEAKER_03And that's such a shame, right? I feel like nowadays there would probably be more awareness and possibly more concessions made, right? Like, if this is how Fet's brain works and it's working for her, then we'll let her do that, right? One would hope. So when you say you needed to do something creative, you mean it was sort of like you had to like keep your hands busy or yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I think even now, you know, like I listen to podcasts while I edit photos.
SPEAKER_03Really?
SPEAKER_01I know it's not it's not everybody's multi-sensory.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I listen to audiobooks when I work out.
SPEAKER_01I have to listen to music when I work out.
SPEAKER_03When I yeah, no, I listen to it.
SPEAKER_01It's pretty interesting that you can listen to words. Like for me, it's about tempo and beat that like get me excited about exercise. But I think that in general, most times, even when I'm watching a movie, I like it's very hard for me not to be checking like be on my phone or do something. I just think that I like multitasking. And I think it really works for me. And I think that for specifically when you're shooting in a field, especially in a maybe a high pressure situation, you're operating on so many levels and you don't even realize it. And I think that that is why I really excel in this type of photography and this type of journalism, because it's not such an obvious, like dual way of working or living life. It is happening. Yeah, it is feeding that necessity in my brain, but in like a very like normal and calm way where I'm just walking around with a camera.
SPEAKER_03100%. It's funny that you say this because I I always say that I actually think I cannot monotask and that I have to multitask. Yeah. And I've had mostly, I think, men, of course, be like, I don't believe you. I like I like they'll tell me, like, I guarantee you that you're not functioning better multitasking than monotasking. And I'm like, but I just can't monotask. Like, yeah, I feel like the way I see it is it's like we have or I have just like multiple channels, yeah. And I have to occupy probably at least two or if not more, in order to just feel not bored.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Just as like sign one, you know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, exactly. You just need a certain level of stimulation, preferably through multiple avenues.
SPEAKER_01And I try not to like be hard on myself. I think that we have to give ourselves a tremendous amount of forgiveness when we are overcoming a lot just to live normal lives, you know, and whatever normal means, right? But I often am like a little envious of people who are like, at four o'clock, I have to sit down and write this paper.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And they at four o'clock, yeah, sit down, quiet space, just do do do. To me, it is like watching like an alligator walk on one leg. Like it is crazy that someone can do that because it is that would be unthinkable to me and the way that I do things. So yeah, but of course, there's also just so many great things about this, you know. I attribute it every time that I'm anywhere and I'm looking for something visual or trying to take a picture, I know that I'm seeing differently because of my ADD. I know that I'm the way that I'm thinking, how I'm thinking about shooting, the way I'm gonna take the photo, or the the type of interaction I have with a person is uniquely mine because it's me with my ADD. And so I really try not to be too hard on myself because it's it's such a gift in a lot of ways.
SPEAKER_03Have you always been compassionate with yourself? No.
SPEAKER_01No, and I can't even say that I always am now, but I'm miles ahead of where I was, and I I also think as you were saying, it really comes down to like a a hug from society and the things that are working against you that you just don't feel when you're growing up or if you're undiagnosed. I in recent years it's just really become evident that not only is it possible to live like copesthetically and successfully with this diagnosis, but a lot of people around you have it or are coping with their own thing too. Um, I think it's just like a maturity outlook.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That you're just why waste time being hard on yourself? You know, we're all doing the best we can.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. For sure. I mean, I've also come such a long way with that. I think a lot of that's just getting older, right? You're just it's and it's also like you spent, at least me, like I feel like I've spent my whole life fighting against myself. And I'm like, I'm done with that. It's too exhausting, and it's it's and it hasn't done well for me inside my brain, right? To always be fighting against myself. So it's almost just kind of like I surrender, you know. For sure. This is so much easier to just like be nice to myself.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and there's often a root of why we're upset at ourselves. Because with ADD, you can really trace back maybe what happened. And I don't know if that's consistent or congruent across other neurodivergent tendencies, but I feel like oftentimes if something happens and I'm very upset at myself, I can literally like walk back and be like, what could I have done differently here? And those recognitions have allowed me to catch myself earlier in the process, you know, where you're like, oh, did I waste six hours doing nothing today? I'll like sit down and it'll be two hours and I'll be like, oh, okay, it's only been two hours, but I know that if I waste six hours or I keep doing the thing that I'm doing right now, I'm not gonna be able to transition into something more productive. And you just you gotta just like police yourself a bit because your brain is not gonna police itself. It just won't.
SPEAKER_03I mean, like, who's you if you're not your brain?
SPEAKER_01No, I feel like there's a separation. Like, no, I mean, obviously, yes, it's all in the same like organ and um yes, you are your brain and how you think, but I I think there's just a difference between the pragmatism of existing with ADD and the natural tendencies of your brain. And there you do have to separate because, like you said, you're just like fighting yourself. Yeah. And but if you consider it two separate entities, which sometimes I do, I'm just like, oh, I'm being like insane today, or like it's really acting up today, you know? I can really see signs now. Then I then I'm like, okay, I need to do everything I can to help myself. And it it's not saying it's two brains, but it's two ways of thinking. Yeah, yeah. I get it for sure.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Do you notice what makes it better or worse? Like, like for me, sleep, of course. Like this week I've been sleeping pretty badly. So I'm this week I've just been like, well, it's a wash. And like, even like I'm on my phone so much more when I'm tired because I it's like I don't have that part of me that would normally probably try to stop me is so much weaker. And it just like gives in to this, like, but isn't it nice to know that?
SPEAKER_01Like it's good to put a name to these things, right? Like, it's okay that it's happening, you know, it's happening. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that when I was going through this like sort of self-realization period in my 20s, I was smoking a lot of weed. And for me, I was detaching from a lot of emotional stuff that I was dealing with. And I thought that weed was helping me cope. But I don't think that weed helps me cope with anything. In fact, I think it makes me so forgetful. I would lose, I would like lose something I was looking at straight on. Like this coffee cup would be gone. And it's it's not necessarily like, yes, you're you're altering your state of mind, but I think that doing drugs when you have ADD, you have to be careful. Like you just have to know the environments you're in, what you're doing, because for me, it would always just exacerbate everything that was a behavioral aspect of my diagnosis. And I never felt better at the end, even if I felt better like for the two hours or three hours that I and so a huge thing that I changed in my life is that I don't do that stuff anymore. Um, and again, that could be maturity, but also even like if somebody offers me something and everything's chill, circumstances are great, I won't do it. And it's because I know that it just doesn't work for me. Yeah, just like if somebody's like, oh, I don't drink anymore because it didn't work for me, right? And I think those have been like really big changes. And you know, of course there are days I wake up and I'm just like, today's gonna be rough, it's gonna be a wash, but at least I'm not adding to it.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, by like beating yourself over it, beating yourself or taking some because you're just like, right, why not? You know, I really think that there have been a lot of changes in like even when I have really bad days with this uh diagnosis, that I am much more forgiving, but I'm also like just because it's bad doesn't mean you need to make it worse.
SPEAKER_03100%. Yeah. Weed definitely makes my ADHD worse, like in the moment. Like, I I don't know what it is. Sometimes I think that because it lessens anxiety, then that I lose the the helpful aspects of anxiety where I'm just like my ADHD goes wild. Definitely makes me more impulsive, right? But yeah, it is a funny relationship. I hope, I hope someone studies that. Yeah. We in an ADHD.
SPEAKER_01Do you have um? I wanted to ask you, do you have the um productivity euphoria? Do you know what this is?
SPEAKER_03No, what's that?
SPEAKER_01Okay, so this is just something I don't even know if that's what it's called, but it's just what I call it. So, like, for example, if I'm having one of these days where I'm really just not getting a lot done or I'm feeling very underwhelmed, undermotivated, and I send one email or I edit one photo, I get this like euphoria of like, oh my gosh, I've done it today, you know? Wow. That is just so disproportionate to the fact that I really haven't done a lot of the things that I need to do. But that's so great. It's great, except for when you're like, I'm gonna go celebrate. And I'm like, when you're celebrating is like the most remedial. I think it's great. Yeah, it is great, except for the fact that it does like create this false sense of like excitement in your brain. And I feel like we're always training our brains when we've ADD, like I'll be 100 years old and I'm still working on stuff, you know. I I don't ever think the work is done. Um, and so for me, what I what happens is that then I'm like, oh, I'm gonna go grab a drink because I did one thing on my list of 20 things. And although, like, in general, you would think, wow, it's so nice that you're celebrating yourself. The problem is that like I then have to go do those 19 other things. And if tomorrow is a bad day, like we're at a risk of this being an ongoing, it could be one day or it could be a week, or it could be a month. And I think that it's really something that I'm still working on is teaching myself that just because I'm able to do the one thing on a bad day doesn't mean that I can't do two or three things, also, you know. I have this like instant like jolt of like interesting, amazing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like that's so interesting. I kind of wish I had more of that because I'm kind of the opposite where I am really, I don't know. I am so, so bad at recognizing that I've done anything. Like the moment I do it, I forget about it. Or, and especially, I think this is more common, right? Where you like put off something, something like it's like been torturing you, you haven't touched it, and then you finally do it, and it's just relief. There's no like sense of accomplishment.
SPEAKER_01That's true, yeah. I have that too.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but for me, I actually like I because I read, you know, uh, you know, you know, we have our brains are weird with dopamine, right? That's my basic understanding of that.
SPEAKER_01It is essentially dopamine, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And that you need to celebrate wins in order to like increase dopamine. So I'll literally, when I'm alone and I do one small thing, I'll be like, yeah. I'll try because I'm like, I'm supposed to celebrate 100%. But like I or even so there is one app that I use. Actually, this week I haven't been that consistent. There's an app I use called Productive.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I targeted for this.
SPEAKER_03Oh, really? I actually love it. It's super simple. So you get to set all these like daily habits, and of course, I have too many, and that's part of the reason why I'm inconsistent because it's just too ambitious. But every time I swipe it, it goes like it makes a little sound like bing bing. And like that. And sometimes it glitches, like you said, apps glitch, right? And sometimes the sound doesn't go off, and I get pissed because I'm like, that was gonna be that was my reward. My celebration is a swipe and it's finest.
SPEAKER_01Jesus.
SPEAKER_03And so, like, I so I have really tried to teach myself to celebrate, but then the other day I was reading Andrew Huberman because you know, he's he is who he is. But he had he says he has interesting information about dopamine. And he said that you actually shouldn't celebrate wins consistently.
SPEAKER_01That's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03So I don't know what to do anymore. Do I celebrate? I just need, I just need someone needs to treat me like a hamster and just like celebrate my wins intermittently for me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And again, I think that it's tough, right? Because we often will ask ourselves solution-based questions. We're like, oh, how like what should what should I be doing, or how how is this supposed to work? But I think that ADD is so individualized. And I think the biggest thing is not really saying, okay, this is what I have to do. It's like this is what works for me, and maybe this is what works for me one time, this is what works for me for five months, this is what works for me for five years, and then it just stops working. And that is just like something we're very susceptible to because I don't know why, just like our brains. But I think that, you know, if you're like, okay, this like ding really like adds to my my joy um of accomplishment, and then it doesn't go off. I think that you're already like, wow, you should find something else too, like a backup plan.
SPEAKER_03That's true, that's true. I should have like a bell that can ring. If I had a house, I would do that actually.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Maybe a whistle, carry on whistle.
SPEAKER_03Just a little whistle around my.
SPEAKER_01Two, two, two. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I want to go back to because you know, if someone was diagnosed late or later in life, I'm curious as to your relationship with ADHD, ADD, and that diagnosis as as a kid.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I I really don't remember a lot of my childhood. I don't really know what that's a marker of. Uh, but I like I said, I really do remember for most of my youth it being a real struggle. And I don't even think it was with myself. I think it was a real struggle. I just don't really remember.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I'm not even I mean, I think I'm being a little protective. Yes, like there's not enough time in the world to get into all the hollow, like the trauma of childhood, but I also just when I think about it of what I can remember, I there's not a lot I remember that isn't just like an argument about doing something wrong at some point.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's fair.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, I think that a lot of me going off into university and like sort of gaining that like last full adult independence, like a huge portion of that was a relief. Um, it was like now I can figure it out. And in a way, I made every single mistake that I was making before. But I had the opportunity to teach myself the lesson in a way that I understood. Because I think what's challenging for a parent is that they can tell you something 17 times, but if they don't say it in the exact way that you need to hear it, you will not learn. And that or like someone with ADD will not learn. Um, and I'm a prime example of that. And even now I know that, you know, if somebody is teaching me, let's say, like a HE fat class or something, and it's like this extended safety sort of demonstration on how to do A, B, and C, and they're talking to me about it. I'm like, I need you to show me and say it in this way. And I've never had an issue retaining anything if it's done in the way that I can receive it. Um, first time, good to go. So I think a lot of what growing up with it was was a struggle of communication and a real lack of understanding on me knowing how to ask for how I needed to know to be told things and whoever was telling me just doing it in the way that they're, you know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So how do you need to be told to do things? So shown, you need to be shown.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm very visual. I think that I like auditory is really helpful. I don't love reading directions. I like to read books, but I don't really like to read directions. I've never liked reading directions.
SPEAKER_03Um I mean listening to directions, you might as well not say them. Like I literally I'll just instantly zone out. Instantly. That's like probably the best way to have me to zone out.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god. You won't listen and I won't read, and then we'll wind up with a really organic looking.
SPEAKER_03What we should do during the podcast, actually.
SPEAKER_01That's a great idea. Part two. Yeah, yeah. Okay, part two. Yeah, next time. Um, and I want to cut. Um deal. Deal. No, I just I think that uh yeah, it's definitely like I'm very visual. Um I've always been really visual. So you need to like see it being done or something. Yeah, yeah. And I I think that as a visual journalist, that's a really helpful thing that I'm really visual, but it goes so deep. Like my visual memory is crazy intense. And my other kind of memory, whatever you wouldn't label it as, is like a complete wash.
SPEAKER_03So, like you remember things just like visually, like, yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, this is a funny story I like to tell. Um, I was in Madrid, I was there studying for summer when I was in college, and um, I went to the uh art museum there, and I remember I was standing in front of this painting, it was on a red wall. Um it was veneer. Well, there was a woman in a purple dress in front of this painting, and she had brown hair and she had really distinctive eyes, and I just like I didn't take a picture, I just remember the visual, and it was it was in the Prado, it was on the second floor, and okay, cool, great. I'm walking down the street of New York four years later. Yes, I am on um like third in Broadway or something like this, and this there's this woman who walks past me, she's not wearing purple, but I recognize her face. Wow, and I was like, is there any chance?
SPEAKER_03You stopped her?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I will. I mean, I passed her, yeah, it all hit me, and I like ran after her. And sometimes I just need to check, you know, of course. And I was like, is there any chance that you were in this museum in 2012? And she was like, Yeah, I went there that day with my family, and I was like, wow, I just got chills. But but I could give you 20 examples of that from a visual perspective, but my mother could give you 45 examples of her telling me something over and over and over again. It's like crazy. Right. I saw that for one moment in my life. I saw this and I remembered it to the point that I could connect it years later.
SPEAKER_03How did she react?
SPEAKER_01It was very funny, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Wow. Yeah, I mean, that's really handy. So you basically have a photographic memory for visual things. For like the for you you mean things that you find visual or like things that I see. Right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but I think that's tough because people generally with idyllic memories, yes, it has a specialty of a certain thing, but it's usually very information-based. And like I can't read a book and remember it whatever or anything. Right. It doesn't apply in the standard ways that you would think that you have a photographic memory. I mean, I don't really know what that is. So I'm very hesitant to like give myself that label or praise or whatever. I just have really, as I've analyzed the way that I take in information and the things that I remember and how I remember and all this stuff, I've realized that the the visual side of this is just really off the spectrum. And anything else is pretty blowpar.
SPEAKER_03It all evens out. Yeah, it all evens out. I want to talk about exercise. I know you're a big exerciser. You've run how many marathons?
SPEAKER_01Three. Wow.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03And you're training for another four, maybe?
SPEAKER_01No, I think three. Well, the last one I did it was a while, while while ago. Um, it was in Los Angeles, and I wasn't gonna run. My friend from France was gonna run the marathon. And I went to Portland to work on a project, and I came back and he had like sprained his ankle or something. And it was like a month before the race. And he was like, Can I just give you my number and maybe you can just do just because I was trained, trained, and I was like, Yeah, sure, like I'll go check it out. So I went to The registration the day before the race hadn't really trained for it at all.
SPEAKER_03That's insane.
SPEAKER_01And I met this group and they're cyclists. And they actually break into the racetrack before the marathon starts and cycle the race from Dodger Stadium to Santa Monica. And I was like, that sounds like so much more fun than running a marathon. And maybe I'm here just so I can meet these cyclists. So I get my bike. The next morning I wake up at like three in the morning. I go to Dodger Stadium. I ride, I do the whole marathon. And then I had so much energy because it was so fun that I took a cab back to the start of the race and ran it. Oh my God.
SPEAKER_03Oh my God.
SPEAKER_01So I think it's a it's still a marathon, right? Or is it some is this called something else if you do two sports?
SPEAKER_03Oh, well, that's definitely more than a marathon. You basically did like two-thirds of an Iron Man.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I've always wanted to do an Iron Man.
SPEAKER_03I mean, sounds like that would be up your alley.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it would be fun. But I mean, recently I've had like physical health issues. So, you know, that was my heyday in exercise back then. Um, but yes, I do stay active, so we can talk about exercise.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Like for me, it's super important for my mental health, right? It's just like a non-negotiable shirt. Is that what it's like for you?
SPEAKER_01Yes. I think that it's actually just something that I'm struggling with right now, if we're being quite frank. Um, it is and has always been a huge part of my life. Um, and it's been very uh stabilizing for, I guess, like the hyperactiveness of my ADD. And recently, because I've had so much like back pain, every time I feel like I overexert, it affects other areas of my life. It's been really, really challenging because um I've had to put exercise in this like secondary sense of my schedule. Um, like I'm like, oh, if I'm working all day tomorrow, I probably shouldn't run because what if I hurt my back and then I can't do my job? And that has not helped my mental health, if we're being quite frank.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah, that's really tough.
SPEAKER_01It's been kind of hard. But up until you know, my 30s when I was young and fun, I exercised every day without fail. And it was incredibly crucial to me managing the other aspects of ADD.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I mean, not to downplay your current struggles, but I do think we shouldn't fall into the trap of believing that your body disintegrates the moment you turn 30.
SPEAKER_01I know, I know, but it I I think I just have to, you know, deal with this like situation. I really do miss having more exercise and more consistent exercise. Um, it was really important to me. And now I think that I'm only barely managing it with the change. Um and it's not because I'm 30. I know. It's, you know, but yeah, it I do think it's really important. And if you're able, you should exercise.
SPEAKER_03So doing things that you don't want to, or doing things that you do want to, like, so you make lists going back to is that your really your only thing? You just make a list. Do you plan? Like do you Google Calendar? Is Google Calendar?
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_03Do you use a is it do you use calendar? Do you have a calendar? Really? I used to have a calendar. So how do you remember things?
SPEAKER_01Well, here it's kind of easy. I feel like, okay, living in a place where so much of your life is centered around the same thing. I think that's the only reason why I don't have a calendar. The war, but also it's like my closest colleagues and friends are in Kiev. My work is based out of Kiev. My uh like everything is here. I know for you, you travel a lot more, you have a lot more like global spread of projects, but I would say 95% of my life right now professionally is in Kyiv. And so I think that has kind of allowed me to fall off needing a calendar. Wow. Because I mean, you know, if I have to do like Zoom talks and whatever, I think once I travel, I just went to the US for a month and I was I was in nine states in four weeks. Oof. And I was booked to a T and I used a calendar. But it was the first time in a really long time I used a calendar.
SPEAKER_03So, like, okay, if someone's like, I want you to give a talk online in two months, where do you where does that information go?
SPEAKER_01I guess kind of on a calendar.
SPEAKER_03Do you just remember?
SPEAKER_01And then when the day nears, you're just like, Yeah, I think that I've gotten really comfortable with these freak out moments that happen like a couple days before I need to do something. Um, and I'll just be like, oh, right. And then I'll look back at the email.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01And then I'll like put it on a maybe a weekly schedule or something.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I've gotten really lax with it. And I don't know. I mean, if it works, it works. It does work. I think that lists. So I have a huge whiteboard in my room.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01And it takes up almost a whole wall of and it's like when I my bed faces it and I wake up to it. It's not a calendar, it's just a list. Yeah. It's it's an erase, a dry erase thing. And so like on one side, I have all the things that I want to like apply for or do or a grant or something like this. Then I have like the projects I'm working on with notes and stuff. And then I have this like other like kind of to-do things. So it is it's a massive list. It's a system and it's a list.
SPEAKER_03Okay, then that works. But I guess like if you're not in Kiev, then you don't have the whiteboard.
SPEAKER_01Which is why I think I resort back to the former usage of the calendar, you know? Right. Tobacco plan.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And was that like an online calendar or just like the phone app calendar.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_03So yeah. I mean, if it works, it works.
SPEAKER_01Like I said, I just so many years. We're talking 20 plus years of trial and error that I think I've worked through a lot of the early issues. Not to say that I have a good memory, I don't think I have a good memory, not to say that I think that I can bypass some of the natural ADD isms, but I just feel like my brain has sort of learned to cope a little bit more through exposure and experience. But I I don't know, maybe, maybe I could do more.
SPEAKER_03No.
SPEAKER_01I mean, if it works, it works. It's weird to talk about because I would think that I'd be like, yeah, I have like 50 systems and blah, blah, blah.
SPEAKER_03And I'm like, wait, I'm actually, maybe I'm like it's so interesting to realize how everyone makes it through life so differently, right? Like, we're all like, like for me, like so on that app, going back to embarrassing admissions on the app, the ding. You know what's on there? Brushing my teeth.
SPEAKER_01Oh.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Do you well okay? This is a good thing for us to talk about. Um, where do you put your or your medicine you're prescribed in medicine? You take a where do you okay? So for me, I have these in every bag. I have like a backup just in case I forget to take it. 20 plus years I have taken the a pill in the morning and I can still forget to take it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And that will send my entire day in just a wild use chase.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So now I make sure that I'm never.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, I also, I mean, I'm like that with like lip balm and allergy meds.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I and eye drops now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I have allergy bands and eye drops too. Yeah, always. I'm and I need them in every bag.
SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh. I think the eye drops thing, I think it's a photographer thing. I think our eyes were just strained, our eyes are very strained. I also think, I don't know, I think a lot of exposure to tear gas. That's my theory. Maybe. Yes, so medication. My relationship with meds, I went through, because you know, I only went on them relatively recently. I think for like two years, I took them every day. And then lately I have been less consistent. And now I kind of only sort of take them weekdays. So you can choose. Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_01You're a lucky girl.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but also, you know, I went without them for my whole life, right? That's true, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So what is your relationship to your meds?
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm fully dependent on them. I don't think that's ever gonna change. Um, I know that the hope, like the, you know, upper echelon of healing with ADD is that you live unmedicated. I mean, that's for any, for any whatever. That's what the doctors say. They're like You think? Totally. I mean, they really want it means that you've fully been able to cope and that you don't need anything to cope, which is still a picture of health, right?
SPEAKER_03But I mean, yeah, I'm not gonna argue with your doctors, but I feel like, you know, if you need it, you need it, right?
SPEAKER_01Like, I agree with you. I'm just saying that like when I was young, right? The hope was that one day I wouldn't need medicine. I don't know if that's still the case, but I don't I don't ever see myself um not needing it. And the days that I don't take it are so starkly different than the days that I do that I really I try like maybe once every two weeks to give my body a break. I won't take it, but I just know that that day is yeah, what it's gonna be like. Um, and yeah, I I really think I'm gonna need it forever.
SPEAKER_03What's the difference for you?
SPEAKER_01A lot of things, ironically, I think I often feel better off in medicine.
SPEAKER_03Really?
SPEAKER_01Like my general mood is like really energetic and fun. Not to say that I'm not that all the time.
SPEAKER_03Please, I don't think I can handle you more energetic and more fun.
SPEAKER_01Which is why it's a bit overwhelming. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, I really like to the point where um, if I'm having a conversation with someone, they'll be like, Did you forget to take your medicine today? Anyone who knows me, yeah, they can know within a conversation that I didn't take my pills. So there is obvious changes to other people. I think for me, the most obvious one is this like like can't have a single conversation kind of thing, but also a general motivation. The forgetfulness is like in full swing. Um, I I wouldn't drive a car. The only car accident I've ever been in in my life, and it was not that bad, you guys relax. Um, but it I it was a day I didn't take my medicine and I drove.
SPEAKER_03My brother totaled his car in basically an ADHD brain fart. And it's like, I mean, it's real, right? Like the there's very real ramifications to ADHD. I mean, the day I tore my MCL, I I didn't take my meds. And I sometimes wonder if I would have if it would have happened, right? Because I I I mean it I jumped off a cliff into the ocean on purpose, but I wonder if I would have done that if I was on meds.
SPEAKER_01So there's a frontal cortex thing there too, hugely with ADD, right? Where you're just the risk taking can can be really hard to control. And I think that has been a huge am I I always am like, is this me? Is this a smart idea? Yeah. Or is this my ADD being like tickle my tummy, you know, scratch behind the wall?
SPEAKER_03Like hanging out with other ADHD people can be kind of like dangerous because we just sort of like oh yeah feet off each other, like, do you want to do this? Yes.
SPEAKER_01And we're just like, Oh yeah, it's dangerous, it's super, super dangerous. And um, you know, maybe in like a research study it would be fun. But I really on like days that I don't take my medicine, I so you said you don't drive? I I definitely won't drive. Um, I I probably wouldn't even like get on a scooter. Like I just wow, but I I really don't have those days that often because I'm I'm so stringent with um my medicine, but I'm also working a very unconventional job where there are days or even months where I'll like be working for two weeks straight without a day off, and I can't afford to not take a medicine. So that has like really changed any kind of consistency. But um, I also think that like it's just very hard for me to motivate myself. I I don't know, maybe it's just how it presents in me, but like I'm not gonna really lethargic, you know, and just can't, you know, or I'm like bouncing off the walls, um, and both can happen in the same day, but there's really no moderation of self or like critical thinking that is just how my brain is, or it it has just become so affected by years and years on medicine that in a way maybe it's made it worse when I'm not on it, you know.
SPEAKER_03I don't know. I have read, and this is possibly not this is possibly incredibly not scientific or evidence-based, but that there's also real ramifications of untreated ADHD, right? Like the years of I don't know, lack of dopamine or whatever, like that has an effect too. So maybe you've actually saved your brain by taking meds this whole time.
SPEAKER_01Totally, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And who knows what how many accidents you might have got into or how many dangerous, risky adventures you would have gone on.
SPEAKER_01I mean, the list is endless. Yeah. In my upbringing, you know, just like one accident after the other. Um, really, that's really cooled off. Yeah. Since I've started addressing the like behavioral consistencies that I can um do. And that has been really like a relief. I think that's been the hardest I was on myself was this like constant losing, constant injury. Just like you're like, this is silly. Why did I do this? But it was fun. Yeah, it was fun. It was fun, but it was preventable.
SPEAKER_03Right. Yeah. Um so cognitively, like inside your head, yeah. What's the difference on and off? Like what is how is it different being you on and off events?
SPEAKER_01I don't know. I almost feel like it's not me when I'm not on them. It is like a it's a dissonance of self. Um and yes, like I can tell that I'm physically present, but I really I think that I'm completely checked out. Um, and in a way, like the reason medicine exists is that it is providing your brain with whatever it needs to be its best version. Like you can't get there without it. That is the pill. So I think that um it's just very clear to me, even after all this time, that it's a necessity as a treatment plan for myself, and that it's not always fun to feel that you you are like it's possible for you to be functioning at such a low version of yourself. I mean, you know what I mean? You mean it's like if you're if you live a day off of medicine and then you're reminded, you're like, oh, this this sucks, right? I mean, I why would you ever want to not be who you are functioning at your best? Um it's it's it's sometimes like even sad when you're like, I I wish I could wake up and not need something.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But that's just not our reality.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I had a friend who actually, because of a conversation he we had, he ended up getting diagnosed and he tried meds and and we had a conversation about it. And I said, you know, for me, I knew the meds worked because I felt more like myself.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_03And he was like, Yeah, that's exactly it.
SPEAKER_01And I mean, again, I think that we're always just a little harder on ourselves. Um, I think that the struggle that we who whatever the experience is is, what we go through makes us harder on ourselves. And in a way, we'll never feel like we're doing enough. Yeah. That could be personality-based, it could be diagnosis-based, it could just be life-based. But I don't know if like I could maybe have the most productive day of anyone on it. Could be measurable. I could be like, wow, you know, I cured an incurable disease today, and I'd be like, didn't do enough. You know, I still didn't read that chapter of that book that I, you know, and I didn't run 10K. Exactly. I think, I think that just is part of it. And yeah, just like I really, really encourage people to um practice forgiveness for yourself. And to I I really do try to recognize that even through the journey of struggling with ADD, I have overall a pretty accomplished life.
SPEAKER_03Yes, you do. You do, and you've done great.
SPEAKER_01You can measure that in the days that didn't work, or you can look at the bigger picture and be like, even though I know I was going through some of the worst days of my mental health in this period, look, like I still manage to do this thing, and there's still a lot of time to accomplish so many great things, and you know, there will be more bad days, but you manage to do a lot with the good days, or even through the bad days, and like I really try to continue looking at it through the lens of the the bigger picture, and I find that to be very helpful.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's beautiful. We're so far away, maybe air high five.
SPEAKER_01Air high five, and yeah, you you should do the same because you I mean too accomplished people at this table. Hell yeah. And I find you to be very inspiring. Um, even before I knew that you were part of the club. When did I tell you? I think like when you asked me to be on this pod. Really? I did not know. Oh, yeah. Not, I mean, yeah, I also kind of assume everyone does, just kind of I feel like everybody is a bit queer. Queer. Everybody is a bit queer. Um it's true.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Um, one thing I do want to talk about since you are here in Kiev is I have a theory. Sure. I think I've said this to you before, where the closer you get to the front line, the higher incidence of ADHD amongst people who don't need to be there. I think there's something about these environments that attract people like us. Sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think I mean, I think that adds a little bit to what we're talking about, how there's this sort of subconscious feeding of what we need in any environment that conflict zones in particular seem to provide. So, yes, I agree with you. Um, and then if you talk about this sort of incremental inching into an even more high-risk zone, yeah, there's definitely more and more people who don't need to be there. But in a way, those are when those people are needed the most.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, I don't think it's a bad thing. I think it's beautiful that we kind of find these like niches, these nooks and crannies, where like, hey, this is a place where the way my brain works is actually helpful.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I think it's interesting. I mean, I've never fully analyzed it because I guess I just assume that we're all very similar. Yeah. Like we're all there.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01And it is all voluntary at a certain degree, if we're talking about certain professions. So I've I've just always assumed that we're all in the same boat, whether that be ADD related or personality related, or just, you know, we're all just so passionate about this one topic that we have to all operate on some kind of similar way to be there. Um, and it would be, I'd be curious to see the optics. That would be a that would be a graph that I would I would look into and with interest, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I mean, especially when you add on, like like you said, with our professions, right? Like freelance, conflict, photographers. I feel like those things put together is just like every parent's nightmare.
SPEAKER_01I feel like most people here, even far away from the zero line um or five kilometers from the front or anything like this, um, are probably somewhere on the spectrum of neurodivergent.
SPEAKER_03For sure.
SPEAKER_01And that could be any number of things. But I think at a certain point we're all neuro neurodivergent, because a huge portion of coping with the anxiety of being in a very dangerous situation is self-preservation. And everything in our physical chemistry tells us that we should not be there. And even for people who have to be there, either, you know, you're still wired to be like, get out. This is super dangerous. So there has to be something. Not necessarily that it's feeding our brains, but that we are able to approach these circumstances, manage the stress, and work effectively means that we are wired differently, or we have trained ourselves to do so. And do you remember that? Were you here when they had those um peace fire days where they basically said they weren't going to fire at civilian targets? Thus, it was like three days of quietness in Kiev, which is probably the longest time that there hasn't been something in the airspace. And I felt like everybody was walking around not knowing what to do with themselves.
SPEAKER_03You said conflict zones provide some for some of the needs of ADH people. What are those needs?
SPEAKER_01I would say that everything is so multi-layered. Um, I think that again, the biggest component and the biggest strength of ADD is that curiosity, that like need to continue learning. Um, I really love this about the way that I think. And in a place that is so historically complex, facing a very modern day warfare with a lot of um like unknowns moving forward, you have an endless amount of layers to learn about and an endless amount of ways that you can keep learning to adjust and you can keep growing in this environment and keep not only doing the thing that I love the most, I get to photograph every day here, which feeds so much of my brain. But I then get to keep pushing from every direction what that means, what that looks like, what I'm trying to say. And maybe that's just anyone who likes to be a journalist, but that feeds, I mean, really, I feel the most stable I ever have in terms of how my brain is being used every day here. That's great. Yeah, I really like it. That's why I live here.
SPEAKER_00Oh my friends have ADHD. All my friends have ADHD.
