(50) "Dueling Kazoos And The Doo Dah Debate + Making Sense Of Spelling Rules That Break"

Episode 50 starts with a simple question that immediately gets complicated: does “50” really mean 50 if a glitch once chopped an episode in half? From there, we do what we do best, turning a milestone into a freewheeling conversation about sound, language, and the tiny misunderstandings that somehow shape entire relationships. Yes, the kazoo makes an appearance, and yes, we seriously consider what it would mean to “play us out” with public domain music without inviting a copyright mess.

That music tangent opens a bigger door: Stephen Foster’s “Camptown Races” and the uncomfortable modern question of what songs carry baggage, even when the lyrics feel harmless to some listeners. We talk through why “it was a different time” is not a full answer, how audience context matters, and why jokes about doo dah can still lead to real conversations about history and culture.

Then we dive into the weirdest corners of English spelling and pronunciation: the silent B in dumb, the “I before E except after C” rule that fails often enough to betray you, and the infamous OUGH combinations that sound different in bough, cough, dough, and enough. From there we connect language learning to travel, swapping stories from Spain, Amsterdam, and Paris where asking for directions turns into a pronunciation lesson and “turn right at the Bastille” means something totally different when you are a tourist.

If you like podcast conversations about language learning, communication skills, travel stories, and the absurdity of English, this one is for you. Subscribe, share it with a friend who loves words, and leave a review, then tell us: what word or pronunciation rule do you still get wrong?

Please leave us your comments, text me, DM me, give me your thoughts.  what works and what doesn't land?  We want to improve.

thanks for listening

Joe

Transcript

Eddie Returns For Episode 50

SPEAKER_02 0:19

Hey, everybody. It's Built Down Man and the Cardiff Giant. I'm Joe Flush, and this is my partner Eddie.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Hey, glad to be back. I've been gone for a while, and now I'm back in the world. Yeah, where have you been? Well, you know, I've just been Eddie places. Uh apparently you've tried to replace me, and I I think I think you started out trying to replace me with Jason Bateman of the Smartless podcast, didn't you? Or will Arnold. No, it was Jason Stratham. You got mixed up. Okay, that Jason. I knew it was a Jason, uh, but I didn't know which one it was. So I understand you've tried to replace me a couple times, but but you haven't gotten Jason Stratham or Jason Bateman, either one yet.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

But let me let me tell you something though. This is number 50, and people are gonna be clamoring for that kazoo. Uh from when I when I play, I don't have a guitar, don't have any musical talent, so I just played the kazoo a bit to get myself ready for the episode. And now I think people are expecting the kazoo.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

I think you learned that at Juilliard, if I remember correctly, didn't you? Didn't you go to Juilliard for the yeah?

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Yeah, I started there.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

But I did I didn't finish it. Oh, you said they wanted me to do other things.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Like play real instruments, maybe?

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Yeah. Well, I I tell you one thing I uh I've been looking at uh by the way, congratulations that we have number 50. All right. What do you get what do you got to say about that?

SPEAKER_01 2:03

I mean, that's half of a hundred. Uh a hundred twice as many.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Hold on, hold on. Is it half of a hundred? Is episode fifty half of a hundred? Have you forgotten? Have you forgotten about your phone going off and cutting off our Wisconsin episode?

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Yeah, I didn't get that. I tried to request that.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

It comes out in therapy from time to time for me, but well, the computer counts that as an episode, so I don't know. I mean, even though I say it's 50, is it really? And for somebody as OCD as I am, it's really a problem.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Well, it's a problem for it's a problem for me too, in that I'm not mathematically inclined, as you know. So it's sort of yeah, it's a real especially tough for me.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Well, uh, and I and I also should say I've been trying to think of some way when you can't do it, that I can get uh some music in there. And you know, Mary Kay, when she came in and did her episode, here she is talking about playing piano recitals and all that, and I can't get her to fucking play anything. You know, to me, she can't play piano recitals until she does it.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

I I think that's probably makes sense. You've got a keyboard, I've seen a keyboard.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

I know, yeah. And and she told me uh she was able to say, and I can't repeat it, but it was she could say the exact thing that she played during piano recital. And yeah, yeah, she could give me that, but she can't play my little chord organ over here. And it's you know, even I could play it if I just sat down and spent five minutes. Well, I probably couldn't. But I did look at some I did look at some songs that maybe we could use uh that are in now in the public realm. Uh because uh I think that's you know, that's one way we could go instead of worrying about lawsuits or everything, you know, that we could we could play some that are in the public realm. And you know what?

SPEAKER_01 4:16

With the kazoo or without the well with or without the kazoo.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

I mean we could play. I'm thinking once you get a kazoo, I can get a kazoo. I've got a kazoo.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

I have yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

Yeah, we we could play dueling kazoos or something, you know. That's right. Or wind beneath my wings. That's that would seem like there would I play that.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

I think we should practice. I think we should practice first, but maybe that's a possibility, I think, for me.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

What would you think? What would be a good song for you?

SPEAKER_01 4:53

You know, I I I I think um Classical Gas by Mason Williams would be really, really fun to do. I think that'd be a blast. Or we could go with Hallelujah. Yeah, yeah, we could go with that. Now let me ask you this: would it be the Jeff Buckley version or the Leonard Cohen version? They're two distinctly different versions. One's different than the other, and the one's and the other's different than the one. Which one would we choose, do you think? I think we'd do a mix-up. One of us would play one and one play the other.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

I think that makes sense. I'm sure. Yeah. I know it's you know, with anybody else,

Public Domain Songs And Kazoos

SPEAKER_02 5:36

you think, boy, this is a dumb way to get into an episode, but uh it's also it's not really.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Tell me how tell me what the episode's gonna be about since I've sort of uh uh you're gonna spring it on me and I'm ready for it.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Yeah, it's it's pretty much we're doing it right now.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

We're doing it right now.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

No, no, I want to start with uh uh when I found out that one song that's in the public public realm now that we can do is Campdown Races, Stephen Foster.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

I know that song. I know that song.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

And and so I was mentioning it to Mary Kay. I was like, you know, not that it's a great song, but it and everybody knows the tune, you know.

SPEAKER_03 6:23

Well, everybody knows they do die. Of course they do.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Well, she she told me, you know, let's see if you agree with this. She said that uh it wouldn't fly these days. It's it would be considered a racist uh song. What do you what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Well, first of all, it's not Camptown racists, it's Camptown Races R-A-C-E-S.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

That's what he said.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Yeah. Well, that's what I'm saying. It's not racist at all. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

It's not racist, it's racist. Yeah, in that case, it would be, wouldn't it? Well, if they were talking about different people's races. Right, right. Maybe that is the problem. Maybe that's she was saying you can't do it. It's it you know, because there are doo-dahs in it and stuff. I've you know, Ed, I've known a lot of African American people. I have a lot of African American friends. I've never heard one of them, not one, say doo-da.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

I think that's just as likely with with any race. You know, with people who it was it was the white Anglo-Saxon Protestants that were singing do-day when that when that song was put out. Stephen Foster uh had them singing do-da to that song and didn't have much to do with with race, did it, as I recall? I mean, I'm not an authority on it.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

It just came to mind uh we did have uh Sting sing do do do da da.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

That's right. Would Mary Kate would Mary Kate think that that's a racist?

SPEAKER_02 8:04

I don't know. It's another white guy singing do da.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

Very white guy. Very white.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

I don't know if that's the same, though. If you go do do do da-da-da, is it the same as do da do da?

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Well, it's not exactly the same. You can sing that there's you know more do's and more das in the one and not the other, but so so yeah, it's not exactly.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

No, in a serious realm, she said because of the time period and things that were going on.

Is Camptown Races Racist

SPEAKER_02 8:33

I I don't know that that's fair to eliminate a song because of that. It doesn't have it's not like some that have racist language in them or anything. I don't think.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

No, I don't think so. I I kind of like the idea of it. What else do you have? Do you have any other suggestions?

SPEAKER_02 8:52

Uh no, I I was just thinking about hey, you know, uh we've heard recently from uh one of our world leaders that says most people do not know that the word dome ends in a B.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Well you think it's I I I heard I heard uh one of our famous leaders say that. Um and um I I don't know. I I I've been thinking about that. Do you think 50% of the population, the American population knows the word dumb ends in the world?

SPEAKER_02 9:35

Well now you just now you just stepped on the whole thing. He didn't say American population. Did he say worldwide? He said most people. Most people, most people. Don't know that dumb has a a B in it. And I and that's actually true because most people don't speak English. What what that's uh the word the word dumb doesn't mean much to them.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Let me tell you what I are you interested in my perspective on that or my B? I am. Okay, I'm gonna tell you, in our third grade class of 30, 31, or 32, you remember classes were probably bigger than than they are now, I think probably. We might have had 35 kids in our third grade class, but I guarantee you that seven eighths of that class knew the word dumb ended in a B. Because it was that kind of thing was drilled into us, you know, for whether it was important or not. And you could debate whether or not that it's important. These days it doesn't seem to be all that important. But even the goofiest, even the stupidest kids that sat in the back of the class picking their noses, knew that the word dumb ended in a B. They knew it. And the B, what? Was silent. The B was silent. They didn't even try to pronounce the B because it was a silent letter. So I I don't know, Joe. I don't know what to do.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

I mean, silent letters are dumb to begin with. They are, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

They are silly.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

With or without a B. That's right. But I'm talking about that. Well, there's some other English things. What what we were told about I after e, the I after e rule.

unknown 11:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

You remember that? How did how did you how did you learn it?

SPEAKER_01 11:19

I'll tell you, it's I after e except after C and the words that say A like neighbor.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Okay. Well now I mine was a little different, but the same principle. It was I after E except after C, and when sounding like A is in neighbor and Way.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Yeah, well, Way also, yes.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

But uh So that's okay. Do you think that's true?

SPEAKER_01 11:47

It's generally true. It's generally true.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

What percentage of that is true?

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Well, you know, I'd have to research that a little bit, but I'd say uh 77.75% of the time that's true. I'm impressed. That's very close.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Is it true? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

Uh that it is. But but that means the 25%, even if you learn that rule, see, we were taught that rule like we should remember that. Right. Oh, we didn't didn't they didn't say now that's generally true. And that can screw you up pretty bad. It can uh but yeah, and and the words that have C, um E, I, you know, E before I after C. Right, like receive. That's only that's

Silent Letters And Spelling Rules

SPEAKER_02 12:44

only 75% of the time as well. Uh some words that have C have I E after 'em.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

So I guess, you know, it's easy to be confused uh even if you're a high up uh politician or something. I I'll tell you the one that that always blew my mind uh was the O U G H. Um because you have it it doesn't have one sound. No.

SPEAKER_03 13:18

You know, B O U G H is Bow. Uh C O U G H is COF. D O U G H is Doe. Enough.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

But it can make you it can make you crazy, and I don't know how anybody learns English, you know, that from another country.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

I was tell talking to someone the other day who who is an Arabic speaker, and we were talking, he his English is pretty dang good, particularly grammar, um, but he learned to pronounce all the letters in in the English words, you know. And I we've sort of talked about this. He learned to pronounce D-E-B-T as depth, you know, not and that's how he learned. That's how he learned how to speak it. We've also talked about, you know, for I it's what makes Spanish easy, at least for me, or easier than some other languages, like French, and and I never had to learn German, but I know some German words. But but Spanish, you're pronouncing most of the letters. Most of the letters, most of the time. So it makes it makes it way easier. Again, at least for me, and should for most people.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

Uh what about and and I don't know anything about these other countries. Uh well say like Finland or uh you know, any any of those kind of in Finnish, do they pronounce all the letters?

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Yeah, I don't know

Why Speaking Fast Is So Hard

SPEAKER_01 14:52

about that. I don't have any idea about that actually. But yeah, I don't mean that Swedes or the Swedes or the the Danes or the Dutch. As I understand it, Dutch is particularly uh is a particularly difficult language to learn. And I always thought that German would probably be a little bit difficult, at least for me. What about you?

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I took some Spanish, not I I can't speak Spanish as well that as well as you do, and apparently you can't speak English as well as you do either. Uh but I uh I I found difficulty with Spanish, and I took two years of it in high school. Uh Mrs. Sparrow was my teacher, and she was a wonderful person and a friend of my grandmother's. Oh yeah, okay. But they they she taught me to speak Spanish, and she said that I was doing it really well, but that I needed to travel uh to use it. Because uh you can't really make conversation with anybody here.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

You don't have to do that now, do you? You don't have to travel at all. We live in travel.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Well, well, you're right about that. I have I have a lot of Spanish-speaking uh people that uh the woman that cleans my house and and her friends, they're all right, they're all Mexican. Uh the guys that help me with my yard, they're all Mexican. And mostly, mostly they speak there there may be one of them that speaks English and the rest the rest of speak Spanish.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

And I can think that I know something about Spanish. I have no idea what they're talking about, Ed.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Well, it is quick. I I told my Spanish tutor the other day I saw her, and and she agrees with this. And if you if you're having a conversation with someone, you better be dang sure that you've been able to locate the subject of the sentence because you'll have no idea what the verb is doing, even if you catch that, if you don't know the subject. So, you know, the noun, the noun subject. And if you're they're saying it's quickly and you're trying to pick it up, and and you know, you might you're gonna get behind in the conversation because you're trying to you're trying to interpret as you go, and you've gotten behind. But uh it's hard, it's very, very difficult.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

When you and I were in Spain, I mean you handled all the communication because my my few times trying it uh were not successful. But I think what blew my mind was when we were in uh Barcelona, uh or do you say Barcelona? Barcelona, yeah. Barcelona. You uh you would give the name of a street to a guy that you wanted to some of the street that we needed to go to, and he would then pronounce another street that was almost exactly the same as the one that you said. Yeah, yeah. And then he would have and then he would make you practice. Yeah, I remember that. And you you told me, you told me they like that. They they enjoy it when you make the effort.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Yeah, they did that to me in Amsterdam. I was trying to find uh Anne Frank's house in in Amsterdam, Amsterdam, Holland, and uh the the house, if you don't know, is on Prince and Gracht. Prinzing Gracht. And I walked up to this little um this little uh stand. He was selling herring, um, raw herring sandwiches with onions, and I was standing there at the end of it. It was like a little bit of a trolley car, it was a shotgun sort of thing. I said, Excuse me, I I need to ask you a question. He said, I'll be right with you. And so he comes over and he said, What can I do with you? You know, he was nice to the tourist me. He was actually very nice. And I said, I'm trying to find Princengocht, and he said, Hold on. He said, I I know exactly where you need to go, but you're gonna have to practice that word with me for five or six or seven or eight or ten times. So we stood there in the back of that of that uh restaurant or to the side of it, and I practiced Princen to try to get that sound in it at the very end. And finally you said, Ah, that's good enough. It's right around the corner.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

Then uh didn't you uh you have a conversation with the guy in Italy as well when you were looking for some trying to get directions?

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Yeah, well, I've had conversations with lots of people in lots of foreign cities. Uh I can't remember one specifically that I had there, but I'm sure I did. I'm trying to think which one you might be talking about.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

Well, I'm talking about the one in which uh the guy told you uh you just go down the street to the Bastille.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Uh, yeah, yeah.

Travel Pronunciation Lessons Abroad

SPEAKER_01 19:42

No, that's in France, Joe. That's not in Italy. So it's the Bastille that happens to be in it in France.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

Okay, that's another thing to apologize for.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

I got it right the first time. I I've talked about it.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

I know you got it, you got it right, but I didn't.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

But I yeah, uh one other thing about languages, and maybe more than one, but um uh when I was in Guanajuato, Mexico uh about three years ago, and I'm going back there uh this year, um when I was in Guanajuato, Mexico, um I was staying at an Airbnb, and the the lady that ran the Airbnb was French, and she had happened to come to Guanajuato years ago and opened a restaurant, and now she had an Airbnb. But anyway, I I asked her, uh her English was perfect, by the way. Uh I asked her if she would uh contact uh my driver for me and give him the directions, and it was one that she knew. So I heard her call him and and I and I heard her say in Spanish and English both that he she said he would call you, but his his Spanish is not very good. And I took some offense at that. I took some offense at that because frankly, I bet I know 5,000, 6,000 words in Spanish. So does that make me not very good? It makes me better than most people, I would say, that uh that that wasn't their native language.

Getting Directions At The Bastille

SPEAKER_01 21:08

But you know, you get bent out of shape over the littlest thing, that's nothing. Well, I know, I but I didn't have a fight with her over it. I just it's it I cringed a little bit, thinking she doesn't really know me. I know thousands of words in that language, so it was that.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

So tell me the Bastille story.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

So, as you know, the Bastille is in France.

SPEAKER_02 21:35

I do know it now.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

The storming of the Bastille is what we learned when we were in uh grade school and high school. But anyway, I I um I was in Paris, which is where the Bastille is, and I was in Paris, and uh I was leaving the next morning and I had to get to the train station, or I had to get to um I had to get to the subway, actually, I guess, probably. The uh it's the metro. Isn't it, I think, in Paris. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

I just know that they had good rabbit there.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Yeah, they do. They have great rabbit there. But anyway, I was trying to get to this uh the subway station, and I was looking for that spot uh where where I could go underground, and they had, you know, obviously they it's just like New York City or Chicago or any big city. I had to find a place to access the subway. And he said, Monsieur, uh, what you need to merely do is to walk out the hotel and to turn right and walk to the Bastille and then turn right at the Bastille, and it is right there. And I said, wait a minute, what? What was that? And he said, I said you need to turn right at the Bastille. And I said, the Bastille. And he said, the Bastille that I'm talking about, we and I said, the Bastille that I learned about when I was in uh grade school and high school. And he said, Monsieur, I have no idea what it is that you learned in school. I'm telling you how to get to the subway.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Well, no, he was telling the truth on that. And it had nothing to do with bit not being able to understand the language, of course. You see that it didn't, it just had to do with what was common, you know, what a commonplace thing was to talk about landmarks. I suppose we might say turn right at the Grand Canyon or something like that, you know. This was the best deal.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

Boy, if you're at the Grand Canyon, you can't really turn anywhere where it's not Grand Canyon.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Yeah, yeah. Well, if you're on the edge of it, you can.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

You can. Oh, but yeah, I I think that's that's a funny story.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

But I really love I I I actually love languages. I'm I'm a nerd when it comes to languages. I'm not very good in

French In Cameroon And Beyond

SPEAKER_01 23:54

any of them, even English, but I really love French. I like to try to speak French when I'm in France or a Francophone country. Um, so but but I I I like them. And I'm again, I'm not good at any of them really. I'm probably better than average, but not much. Not much.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

But do you go you go anywhere where you're just I mean, when you went to Africa, did you speak any African?

SPEAKER_01 24:23

No, that's a francophone. Cameroon, Cameroon is a francophone country. Uh it's it's the main uh the main language there, the primary language is French. And uh there's some dialects, there's some tribal dialects out in out in the country, and probably even in the big cities like Douala. But uh for the most part, if you speak French, you're gonna be able to get by, which I was just barely able to do it. You know, I've even in uh I was taking um French language class while in um Cameroon, and I was the poorest French speaker of the 35 that were in my class, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

But uh, but yeah, I didn't I didn't realize that. But was anybody using the language that you didn't understand? Like any of the African languages

Spanish Vs Portuguese And Assumptions

SPEAKER_02 25:14

or not?

SPEAKER_01 25:15

No, I no, I wouldn't where I was I was working with small businesses, and uh they that was that was the the the like the language that they conducted business in. So these business uh people, these business persons all knew French, and so I spoke entirely French to them.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

So well, I I'll tell you what an idiot I am about all of this. I I was at the races one time and uh Camptown races. Uh no, we were at the races at Keeneland and uh sitting and talking to a woman who had a horse that had won, I think it had won the Belmont Stakes. Um I'm probably gonna get called on, but it was named Farda Amiga, and this horse was Brazilian.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Uh Portuguese.

SPEAKER_02 26:13

Yeah, you once you step on my line.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Oh, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

Yeah, you could tell we script this out. We script it out. We worked very hard to script this out. No, well, what I said to her, I was trying to impress her, and I said, Well, I can speak a little bit of Spanish, and she just kind of smiled at me. And Mary Kate nuts me and she goes, You know they speak Portuguese. And guess what? I did not know that they speak Portuguese. I I guess I assumed, I assumed all of South America was gonna speak uh Spanish. Yeah. So so I learned a little something.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

There's even a French-speaking uh country in South America, and I think we either talked about that or my wife Emily and I talked about it. I think I think it's Guyana, isn't it? Isn't that in South American? That's French speaking, I think, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

I thought that was in Africa,

Giclee Prints And Being Precise

SPEAKER_02 27:14

but not.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Uh I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Well we'll have to research.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

We're just proving how well prepared we are for all this.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Yeah, it's uh people don't think it's all tough by now.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Yeah. So and I'm glad to have you back, Eddie. It's been different without you. Uh we haven't really tried to replace you, but we're just changing up because they need to get more episodes in than you're able to do.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

So I got a call from Jason Bateman that said that they they that you called him trying to replace me with him, so that's not true. It would be a good replacement, though.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

It'd be fabulous, wouldn't it? Well, you're gonna find out, you're gonna find out uh back in episode 49 when it drops, you're gonna find out what I said about you. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

All right.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

You'll look forward to that. Yeah. Talking about language though, let's just let's just talk one more language thing. You talked about these prints uh that you were getting that were uh art prints, and you said they were what kind of prints?

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Uh I said they were ghly, g-i-c l e l-e-e, but they're like giglet or something like that. Yeah, that I didn't know was French.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

Gicle. Gicle. I wondered, I wondered if you ever caught that, but yeah, you knew you knew and chose to say it the wrong way then.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

No, I said that day that

Temperament In Arguments And Closing

SPEAKER_01 28:52

uh during the tele the podcast that I didn't know the correct pronunciation, that I could spell it G-I-C-L-E-E, but it looked like Gickley, but it's probably not, and it's friendship.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Okay, now don't get don't get all upset about it.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

No, no, no. I'm just trying to, you know, yeah, I'm just trying to just detail it out because I I remembered.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

Well, Ed, I know, I know how it how it uh is for you. You let once you get uh in an argument, and I'm not even talking about an argument where you're mad, you get a in an argument, you want to you want to get down in the mud with it. You want to throw everything.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

No, you've said that before. It's it's a little bit hurtful because if you're gonna get if you're gonna yeah, a little bit. Uh if if you know I learned it from my father, if you if you want to cross into my personal territory in a in a vicious sort of way, and that's not what you're describing, I understand that you're something but I have an eye, I have a responsibility to get to get it over fast. I have a responsibility to to really take care of it because why would why would I let somebody run over me? I'm not gonna do it. So and but and again, I understand you're describing something else entirely just a casual conversation or a discussion. And and I hate to think that I do it even there, but you know, I and part of it's probably the way I grew up because I was in an argument from one hour to the next in my house growing up.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

I'm glad we're ending this with a with a real positive on an upbeat.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Well, thank you for that.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

Well, a lot of it though, Ed, is just the difference in temperament. And I I'm not saying I'm not saying one is right or wrong. I'm just saying it's like I don't care. And if you if if somebody says something that's insulting to me, I I generally don't care about that.

SPEAKER_01 30:51

Uh but you do Well I wish that was me. Because I I I find that people are always what they people tend to not be very good most of the time or a lot of the time, and they want to get something over on you. They truly do. And if they get an opportunity, I'm gonna come back. I'm not gonna start the thing, but if they want to get into the thing, I'm gl I'm gladly joined. I will gladly join. I really will.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

Well, your idea of fun and mine is a different thing.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Well, it's not fun for me, but I I I'm willing to do it. And and I guess I continue, will continue to do that, I imagine.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

Well, yeah, it's been great having you on here again. Uh you know, you could you could play us out on the guitar or I could get my kazoo out.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

Please don't please don't get the kazoo.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

Okay, yeah. I think I think we've played enough kazoo. Although in 49, you're not gonna get it.