Women in Horror: Possessing Power from The Exorcist to Prey

Women in Horror are reshaping the genre, from the lingering dread of The Exorcist to modern Final Person heroes like Naru in Prey. In this episode, Kimberly Ramsawak, creator of Horror Concierge and founder of Horror and Her, joins us for her first podcast appearance to talk empowerment, representation, and why horror is the most emotionally honest genre around.

We explore Kimberly’s horror origin story, including The Exorcist at age six, the rise of women-led horror commentary on Substack, how identity and empowerment show up on screen, and why original storytelling matters more now than ever. We also talk Guillermo del Toro’s Frankenstein, Predator Badlands, and Jordan Peele’s upcoming remake of The People Under the Stairs.

If you love smart horror conversations, slow burn dread, women finding their power, and creature feature nostalgia, you will love this one.

Who is Kimberly Ramsawak

Kimberly is the creator of Horror Concierge, a Substack newsletter for women horror fans and creators. She is also the founder of Horror and Her, a coaching business that helps women build powerful newsletters and communities centered on their unique horror perspectives.

What we talk about in this episode

• Kimberly’s horror origin story and how The Exorcist became her lifelong favorite
 • The link between horror and empowerment for women
 • Why Substack is becoming a home for horror voices and creative community
 • How to turn horror writing into a movement
 • Why horror fans were more resilient during the COVID pandemic
 • The growing diversity in the horror world
 • The need for original storytelling and fewer remakes
 • Kimberly’s favorite final person and why Naru from Prey stands above the rest

Favorite moments

• “I was six when my dad sat me down to watch The Exorcist and Thriller. He told my mom, ‘They are going to learn not to be afraid of anything.’”
 • “Everyone writes reviews. What is your hill to die on? That is your horror voice.”
 • “Horror fans already survived the zombie apocalypse in our minds. That is why we handled COVID better than most.”

Why this episode matters

Kimberly shows how horror can be both a creative outlet and a path to healing. Her approach reminds us that when we confront what terrifies us, whether it is societal expectations or personal fear, we make space for growth, power, and reinvention.

Listen if you have ever

• Hidden your horror fandom at work
 • Wanted to write about horror but did not know where to begin
 • Needed a reminder that fear can be fuel
 • Wished more women and creators of color shaped the horror landscape

Connect with Kimberly

Substack: https://horrorconcierge.substack.com?utm_source=horrorheals

Horror and Her: https://horrorandher.com?utm_source=horrorheals

Follow Horror Heals

YouTube Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@horrorhealspodcast?utm_source=buzzsprout

Instagram: https://instagram.com/horrorheals?utm_source=buzzsprout

Thank you for listening to Horror Heals. 

Share the show with someone who loves horror and someone who needs a little healing.

If you want to support our guests, check the show notes for links to their work, conventions, and fundraising pages.

You can also listen to our sister podcast Family Twist, a show about DNA surprises, identity, and the families we find along the way.

Horror Heals is produced by How the Cow Ate the Cabbage LLC.

Is horror good for mental wellness? Of corpse it is.

Transcript

John Kasir 0:11

Hello, foils. It's your old vowel to I can hear the voice of the good people. And I want to welcome my goSpeaker 3 (00:07.79) Hello, and girls. It's your old pal, John Kasir, the voice of the Crypt Keeper. And I want to welcome my good fiends of the Horror Heals podcast. Is horror good for mental wellness? But of course it is. I delight in the delicious deaths of pitiful people on the silver Scream So get ready for a hell of a good time with my new themes Cory and Kendall on the horror heels Hehehe Speaker 1 (00:53.578) Ha ha ha ha! Speaker 2 (01:04.106) Welcome horror heliacs. It's Cory. And today, Kanala are summoning a brand new voice to the show, literally her first podcast appearance. Kimberly Romsawak is the creator of the sub stack Horror Corsierge and the founder of Horror and Her, where she helps women horror fans and creators turn their love of the macabre into movements. We start with Kimberly's horror origin story, with her dad showing her the exorcist at age six, Yowza, and how she's using horror to empower women, celebrate diversity, and build a community on Substack. We also get real nerdy about original storytelling, slow dread, and why we'll always take a weird horror flick over a bad rom-com any day. So grab that holy water, dim the lights, and settle in. This is Horror Heels, where the screams meet the cares. Hi, Kimberly. Welcome to the Horror Heals Podcast. Thank you for having me. We're excited to have you. It's important to get a variety of voices in the horror community out there. And so that's kind of what we're trying to do with the show, you know, with the focus of horror being good for mental wellness. So how do you relate to that? Our thesis or our concept of horror and mental wellness positivity. Speaker 1 (02:17.878) Yeah, it'll make sense if I get into my horror origin story. My name is Emily Renswock and I'm the creator of a horror sub-stack newsletter that I started back in January called Horror Concierge. I created this newsletter just to combine my two loves of writing and horror. It's for women horror fans and horror creators where I talk about how horror movies and books are used as great tools for women empowerment and reinvention. Through that, I created my fairly new business just a couple of months out the box called Horror in Her, where I help women horror creators sort of build their subsect and newsletters into unforgettable movements. So based on that, my love of horror has, I mean, as far as Becca, I mean, I think my key horror origin story was when I was, and my dad put the exorcist, he put the exorcist and he put Michael Jackson's thriller on for my sister and I. And I remember going to Gasplose video, because that was a family tradition. And he tipped up the extra-citizen's accent. And we saw, I was six years old when we saw, I remember my mother saying to him like, what the hell are you doing? he's listening. He's like, they're going to sit down and they're going to watch it. And they're not going I'm going to teach them that as two girls, they shouldn't be afraid of anything. And that has started my sister and I as passionate. I love that. know Kendall and I have a similar story and we were probably maybe around the same age of that, but we both snuck out of our rooms when the TV version of Exorcist was playing and he hid behind the couch and I was around the corner. It just the noises alone were like, my goodness. And to this day, those noises are still so damn creepy. Like the movie is my top favorite horror movie of all time. To this day. Speaker 2 (04:06.51) Yeah. Well, I love that you and your sister kind of got this lifelong love of horror at such a young age, but what was it like watching at that first time? what did you, did you have nightmares? No, I remember looking at it like my mouth open, my eyes like, I'm wanting to cover your eyes. They're like, what the hell? Like in my mouth, what the hell? And just being hooked. Like that feeling of just the adrenaline and your heart pumping. And it's like going on a roller coaster, right? Like you, you're scared as hell, but you like, okay, yeah. I watched the goriest of the gory, the violent of the violent, like types of horror. It's just, it's my thing. So. What are some of the things that make the Exorcist your favorite? It was done in 73, right? So I think to this day, across any horror subgenre, that, and this is slow burn, right? Nothing really happens for a good 45 minutes of the movie. So one could say this movie is boring as hell. But the slow dread that it's so visceral, and it's a slow burn, but it feels like you're immersed in it, like a virtual reality, because the dread, and then now as an adult, And I love the correlation between horror movies and women's empowerment to see, to think of a woman, the mother, who is coming to her house and they always show the scene of the door closed and you're in your own house and having the dread of like, I don't want to go upstairs and I don't want to open the door. And it's your child and you can't do a damn thing about it. And you can't change how you feel. It's completely out of your control. It's just. Speaker 1 (05:48.876) I don't think any movie has been able to match that dread from both the mother's point of view, from Reagan's point of view. It's just so pop-able. It's so good. It's so good. when people really mail us down, they're like, okay, what is your absolute favorite? think Kendall and I both agree that the exorcist is definitely there. And we even have a little exorcist display in our breakfast area. have a bust of Reagan and it's creepy looking on its own, but then we decorate her like she wears a Santa hat at Christmas. It's just so dramatic and it's so theatrical and it's really rare for it will be that slow to keep your attention and really be it. I absolutely adore your sub stack. You're very prolific and love getting the new emails from you on the regular. So thank you for doing that. And Kenona, I think it's so important that we're seeing things happen, diversity in the genre, but you know, we definitely need more voices, more women's voices, more people of color, more queer voices. And so we advocate for that all the time, you know, because if you think about historically all three. of those groups were not necessarily treated very well in horror. And then we'll get to our final question later, but we we ask the last question is, who's your favorite final person? Because we want to be as inclusive as we possibly can. And we appreciate the final girl trope. And final girl gets mentioned a lot in the episodes, but we like to say final person. Talk to me a little bit about what you see, like what you're doing specifically to kind of help empower women interested in horror and into building their online presence. Speaker 1 (07:29.366) I had never heard of SUPSAC before January and how I got picked was there was a business coach that I follow and she said that she's transitioning everything from social media from Instagram and Facebook over to SUPSAC because she loves writing. And I said, well, I love writing. So let me just check it out. And I started reading her newsletter and it just one day I was like, you know what? need to, I was watching a horror movie as I always do. I said, you know what? Let me just start playing around and writing what I think about horror movies and Horror Concierge came to mind because all my friends and family, they always ask me like, what horror movie are you watching? What should I watch this weekend? What should I, you know, what's out? What's ahead in gems? So I'm like, oh, I'll be the Horror Concierge. And so it started off just me recommending horror movies and books. And then as I started getting more into it and the months started passing by women writers in horror that have a newsletter on subsets started DMing me. And they're like, my gosh, I love your stuff. And you know, I love how you write, but I'm scared to put, you know, I, I'm a lawyer by day and I have two kids and I love going to work, but I'm scared to write about what I want to write about. And I'm like, why? You know, and I started getting a lot of those DMS from women who already have newsletters, but are like dormant, not posting a lot or have really great newsletter premises, but you know, they have whatever kind of internal block. where they're really great writers as far as the books, but they're kind of suck in the newsletter world. So that's when I started really diving into, okay, let me show, let me display how I view horror movies through the link of women's empowerment. So I started featuring a horror movie among, just doing the parallels between whatever happened in the movie and sort of a women empowerment theme, whether it's resilience or leadership or gaslighting or whatever it is. And then it just started growing and growing. I said, okay, I'm I like I'm onto something here and I just went all in and I've already been watching horror movies but to sort of look at it from this lens and I was already cheering whenever a woman does something really cool in a horror movie so I'm like, okay, let me channel that into my writing. So that's how the whole whole story started. Speaker 2 (09:38.67) How has the last 10 or so months, the climate in the country sort of affected your purview of horror? I don't watch the news. I love horror movies. don't want to like come on, you know, I have enough with the horror movies. don't need like the real life for them. I feel like whatever is going on, whether it's internally or externally, that horror movies and books can be used as a way to deal with it. The American Journal of Psychology said that during the COVID, horror movie fans were So. Speaker 1 (10:17.934) more resilient, they had better mental health dealing with COVID because we've already seen all those obvious movies. We've already seen all the drama that could possibly happen. Like COVID was nothing new to us. So I mean, I feel like if you're a horror fan, know, okay, I already got like my survival kit. already know, you like you're gonna know how to deal with it. I feel like for horror fans, nothing, nothing new, nothing like. or shatter the No, I mean, we have to be resilient, you know, for sure, because we're all weirdos and outsiders or felt that way. And horror is definitely a huge outlet for us to not feel that way or just be in a community of weirdo. Whatever I call my community horror concierge, but you know, I've always felt weird and I've always sort of hidden my like internally and my friends and family know I horror and I know like I'm obsessed with it, but like in corporate America and outside where I've always sort of like hidden that because you know, I'm a professional black woman, you know, I'm a feminine, you know, and I'm not supposed to like horror, you know, so we've had like this, I don't know, but then the more and more I meet women like my son goes to private Montessori school and the director of the program. She's, know, in her late sixties, twenties seventies and she's British and she found my newsletter and she goes out some spry things to, and I'm like, really? And I hate when people say that to me. It's a Mike, when I did it to her, was like, I can't believe I just did that to her. Can't believe I just did that to her. And she's like, yeah, I love her. And I'm like, my gosh, that's awesome. And she's like, come to my office. She goes to my office. So I go into her office. and she calls the door and she pulls up her shirt and on her back is tattoos of Freddie and Frankenstein. And I'm just like, get the hell out of here. It's so cool to see horror fans who you wouldn't think would be horror fans. And I'm such an advocate for that because we're everywhere. Speaker 2 (12:17.014) Absolutely. Yeah, I don't know how often you go to horror events, but I you definitely see all walks of life there at all ages. I mean, you're seeing like infants to grandmas in wheelchairs, so they're having a good old time. I love it. Now my son, unfortunately, he does not, I try and he does not, he's not a horror fan. No, can't not get any into it. Yeah, I think the most we'll do is find that to Freddie and that's about it. And do you and your sister still share movies to check out and books and things like that? Oh yeah. Speaker 1 (12:46.638) Oh, yeah, she we talk about horror all the time all the time and we're I mean of she I will say I'm more of a more prolific horror fan than she has she can't do anything worry or anything super super, you know, like what torture porn like that stuff she can't do that stuff. And she doesn't really do in national horror. I love I am such a fan of international bar, especially ancient horror. So I am across the board. Yeah, we're all over it too. For sure. What were we watching the other night and I had to stop. had to go. It was. Where the kid was by. Bring her back. Where the little boy is chewing on the knife. And I know it's fake obviously, but I'm just like, don't. Yeah. it's so funny. we, our other podcast is about DNA surprises. And so we found Kendall's birth family, you know, eight plus years ago. it was that. Yeah. Speaker 2 (13:39.426) And so and we're really, really close with his oldest sister on his birth mother's side and two of her best friends are nurses. And so we kind of have our nurse chat and they started asking for recommendations. And I got to be a little careful like how I curate because the first one was weapons. And then the next one was bring her back and like maybe children in peril movies maybe we should. For Nikki nurses. I'm so excited to bring Kendall's sister kind of into our world. And she told us I think early on when we met that like she loved the Bates Motel remake show and stuff. we already knew she was already kind of like couldn't handle it. But yeah, I'm giving them some pretty extreme movies to check out. Yeah, yeah. We're recording this on kind of an exciting day Fridays or when new movies come out but I love extreme horror. Speaker 2 (14:34.552) Today is the release of Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein. Have you already watched it? Us either. It just literally came out today. But yeah, this is one we've been really looking forward to for a long time. Yeah. No, not yet. Speaker 1 (14:47.8) I'm actually looking forward to the Predator Balance It's getting great reviews. love seeing where it's not just like, okay, another sequel, another whatever. Like this one looks totally wild and crazy. And I'm glad they're keeping that going. think studios are starting to realize like, horror fans are very clever. They like a good story. It doesn't just have to be like slasher every 10 minutes, an exciting kill. They're willing to like have that build up for a half an hour or so before things get bonkers. Weapons doesn't get crazy until the last 20 minutes to where I would watch it. I'm like, Okay, this is a horror movie. That's my top one so far for 2025. So far. Wow. Yeah, love it. Love it. And I love that it was a hit. And now we've got this new iconic horror villain too. Speaker 1 (15:40.782) I'm glad it's a lover. Absolutely. And moving with something would I like her backstory? Sure, it would be the cherry on top. Do I really need it? No, I think the movie was it just ended with such a nice little bow. It so good. I don't think we needed it. And you know, honestly, I don't think we necessarily needed the Black Phone sequel. I don't know if you liked it or not. I didn't love it. From what I saw from the trailers, they're of like turning him into Freddy, like a Freddy. I will go check it I mean, it's certainly worth a watch. And of course it was a hit. So they're gonna try to see what they could do for the sequel. But it was like the source material was a pretty short story as it is. So like they really had to be even up for the first one. And there was nothing in that story that would make you think that it was gonna get supernatural or more supernatural than a tie in it. Like you said, creating a new Freddy, but the world needs Freddy. And we've got just this last month, Robert Englund and John Carpenter getting their stars on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. It's way overdue. Thank goodness we're starting to see this more. think horror is starting to get a little bit more respected. And are you getting the sense of that with people that you're in communication with, the women who are, you know? Speaker 1 (16:46.67) creators. Yeah, think a lot of non horror fans are saying, Oh, she saw substance and I saw weapons. And I saw sinners because they don't think those are horror movies. I'm like, they're asking your horror movies. if hey, anyway, they could, you know, we could convert. I'll take it. I think those three movies are like, Oh, it's so good. It was so good. And a lot of non horror fans are telling you like sinners. That will be a horror movie. It's just a drama about that time with racism and just happened to have vampires. I'm like, I actually know, it's pretty... You could be describing a lot of horror movies right now as far as like, yeah, it had a little bit of a ghost element to it, but it was just to draw them. Like, it's a horror. mean, you could certainly cross genres, but yeah, I think it's like when some people who aren't fans and they hear horror, you'd probably think of like 80s slashers or old school, like universal monsters and stuff. I'm just like, I'm not my thing. There's so much more to it. Yeah, and that's what I love about us horror fans. We know there's so many different facets and purvotations. And I personally think I would rather watch a bad horror than a bad comedy or a bad drama or a bad whatever, a very horror movie genre, because this is just so many different ways a horror movie could go. And it could be super intellectual and it could be super campy and everything in between. And I think that's horror is that genre that could only do that. Speaker 2 (18:15.84) I think rom-coms just about make me want to gag, so like that is not my thing. It can be well done and I can appreciate it, but 10 minutes that I'm good. Just give us a few specifics on how you've been helping women with their sub stacks and getting their newsletter A game. Like. Speaker 1 (18:26.07) Yeah, me too. Speaker 1 (18:34.552) Sure. Yeah. So, her and her is a business I created where it's all through coaching, just those that are coaching. And I have, just starting to launch digital, digital programs, enforces and I'm one-on-one and coaching where it's not teaching you how to write because these women are phenomenal storytellers or phenomenal writers, but it's just sort of honing and structuring their writing so that their news that is up. I mean, I think, some, lot of them have great news that are slips and point of views. but it's just helping them to hone that in so that it really has their particular unique horror voice can really shine through and their newsletter can really stand for something because everyone writes a horror movie review newsletter. Horror movie reviews, a horror movie review is a horror movie review. Book reviews, a book review is a book review. But what is, especially as a woman who historically hasn't had a voice in horror other than tripping and falling in like short course in a t-shirt, like, What you have a unique horror voice. let's instead of no one thing you can't do a little review, but what about that movie? What do you want to say through that? What is your platform? What is your hill to die on? What is your something that you can't shut up about? And why do you look hard to begin with as a woman? And why are you even choosing to write about it to begin with? So bringing in their personal, their obsessions, their fascination, their fears to really help them develop a point of view. So that they're news that are to stand out. and build in ground, build subscribers, and readership. Love that, love that so much. With someone with their finger on the pulse right now and knowing the history of horror, what do you envision happening in the next five years as far as diversity in horror and what would you love to see in the next five years? Speaker 1 (20:17.836) What I would love to see was no more remakes, even if it's good. Even if it's good, like we're done. Original storytelling. while I, while I, I thought Bring Her Back was okay. I gave it higher marks because it was an original story. Movies like Talk, Talk to Me, Weapons, Sinners, like completely original, completely out of the box. And I think over the last decade or so, it's kind of lost. like really good original storytelling. Like yes, the movie may be great. It may have great action, great gore, great creatures, but the storyline, oh, I've had something else before. You know, it's not really like bought out through, you know, platholes or whatever. And I think in the early, like the early 2000s, even though it was like, oh, it can't be in as cheesy. Those were some original storytellings. Like Dust Till Dawn, you know, I was comparing Dust Till Dawn and Sinners on like two different movies, but okay. But Dust Till Dawn was like that same thing like. You didn't really know it was a Van Hart movie. You saw it was a Van Hart movie. So I hope as we go into next year and beyond, we just get out of the box, brand new. And also bring back, miss when was the last time we had a really good werewolf movie? A really good zombie movie. You know, a really good creature feature movie, you know, bringing back those sort of dormant sub-genres that you haven't seen in a very long time. One of my favorite voices in the last decade for horror and who knew that he was going to become such a huge voice is George Peel, who has also been involved with some producing some remakes. And I liked the Candyman film that came out a couple of years ago. What are your feelings about people under the stairs being remade? Speaker 2 (22:26.862) Yeah, and hopefully whoever had the concept for the story is like, that's brilliant. Yeah, we got to do that. And it very well could be. And of course, we'll see it too. But it's like we just watched the original maybe three or four months ago. And it's just such a bonkers, crazy movie. like you can't recreate that. Speaker 2 (22:46.995) I think it Speaker 2 (23:21.262) yeah, to be doing it right. And not there's not a crazy amount of commercials to like there's enough like if you need to go get another glass of water or you need to pee or something. Great. Let the kids understand what we had to go through growing up. Watch. But yeah, you're right. And to be getting into original or programming that interesting. Yeah, it'd be really interesting to see what happens with horror and streaming in the next five years just because we're seeing so many things change right now and everybody's seeing like And then that there's a lot of chatter about Antubian horror and it's free. you're getting to see decades of amazing movies, like you said, and they're finding stuff that's like out of print and things like that. just hadn't Yeah, we hadn't heard of. So Kimberly, we love this question. Who is your favorite final person in a horror film? Speaker 2 (26:04.684) Yeah, it's, mean, the trailer's amazing and the reviews that have been coming in. Yeah, definitely a cool one to see on the big screen. Awesome. Again, we love your Substack. Keep doing what you're doing. Thank you for helping women find their horror voice through Substack and newsletters and stuff. It's important. This has been great. I'm so glad we got to connect. Speaker 2 (26:30.19) We'll have to have her back on for sure. Kimberly, huge thanks for joining us and for making your podcast debut with Horror Heels. Your work with Horror Posse-Age and Horror and Her is proof that horror isn't just about what scares us, it's about what shapes us. Heliax, go subscribe to Kimberly's sub stack, follow her work, and tell us your favorite final person in the comments or on social. We'll be back next time with more chills, catharsis, and community. And remember, when people ask... Is horror good for mental wellness? You say, of course it is. The Horror Heals podcast is produced and presented by How the Cow Ate the Cabbage, d

John Kasir 0:22

friends of the Horror Heels Podcast. Is Horror Good for Mental Wellness? But of course it is. I delight in the delicious deaths of pitiful people on the silver street. So get ready for a hell of a good time with my new fiends, Cory and Kendall. On the Horror Heels Podcast.

Corey 1:03

Welcome Horror Heliacs. It's Corey. And today Kendall and I are summoning a brand new voice to the show. Literally her first podcast appearance. Kimberly Ramsowak is the creator of the substack Horror Concierge and the founder of Horror and Her, where she helps women horror fans and creators turn their love of the macabre into movements. We start with Kimberly's horror origin story, with her dad showing her the Exorcist at age six, Yowza, and how she's using horror to empower women, celebrate diversity, and build a community on Substack. We also get real nerdy about original storytelling, slow dread, and why we'll always take a weird horror flick over a bad rom-com any day. So grab that holy water, dim the lights, and settle in. This is Horror Heels, where the screens meet the cares. Hi Kimberly, welcome to the Horror Heels Podcast.

Kimberly 1:58

Thank you for having me.

Childhood Baptism by Fire: The Exorcist + Thriller

Corey 2:00

We're excited to have you. It's important to get a variety of voices in the horror community out there, and so that's kind of what we're trying to do with the show, you know, with the focus of horror being good for mental wellness. So how do you relate to that, our thesis or our concept of horror and mental wellness positivity?

Kimberly 2:17

Yeah, it makes sense if I get into my horror origin story. My name is Emberley Randswalk, and I am the creator of a horror substack newsletter that I started back in January called Horror Concierge. I've created this newsletter just to combine my two loves of writing and horror. It's for women horror fans and horror creators, where I talk about how horror movies and books are used as great tools for women's empowerment and reinvention. Through that, I created my fairly new business, just a couple of months out of the box called Horror and Her, where I help women horror creators sort of build their subsect newsletters into unforgettable movements. So based on that, um my love of horror has, I mean, as far as Becca, yeah, I mean, I think my key horror origin story was when I was, and my dad put the exorcist, he put the exorcist and he put Michael Jackson's thriller on for my sister and I. And I remember going to Ask Post video because that was a family tradition, and he picked up the exorcist, Jackson's thriller. And um, we saw I was six years old when we saw it. I remember my mother saying to him, like, what the hell are you doing? And he listened, he's like, they're gonna sit down and they're gonna watch it, and they're not, I'm gonna teach them that as two girls, they shouldn't be afraid of afraid of anything. And that has started my sister and I as passionate upset. Love that.

The Terrifying Sound Design of The Exorcist

Corey 3:42

I know Kendall and I have a similar story, and uh, we were probably maybe around the same age of that, but we both snuck out of our rooms when the TV version of Exorcist was playing, and he had behind the couch and I was around the corner. It just the noises alone were like, oh my goodness.

Kimberly 3:57

I don't know, and to this day, those noises are still so damn creepy. Like, don't be it's my top favorite horror movie of all time to this day.

Corey 4:05

Uh yeah, well, I love that you and your sister kind of got this lifelong love of horror at such a young age, but what was that like watching it that first time? Like, what did you have nightmares?

Why The Exorcist Is the Ultimate Slow-Burn Horror

Kimberly 4:16

No, I remember looking at it like my mouth open, my eyes like wanting to cover your eyes, but like, what the hell? Like in my mouth, what the hell? And just being hooked, like that feeling of just the adrenaline and your heart pumping, and it's like gone on a roller coaster, right? Like you you're scared as hell, but you like, okay, yeah, I watched the gloriest of the glory, the violent of the violent, like all types of horror is just this is my thing.

Corey 4:45

So what are some of the things that make uh the exorcist your favorite?

Kimberly 4:48

It was done in 73, right? So I think to this day, across any horror subgenre, that and this is slow burn, right? Nothing really happens for a good 45 minutes of the movie. So one could say this movie is boring as hell, but the slow dread that it's so visceral, and it's a slow burn, but it it feels like you're immersed in it, like a like a virtual reality, because the dread, and then now as an adult, and I love the correlations between horror movies and women's empowerment, to see to think of a woman, the mother, who is coming to her house and they always show the scene of the door closed, and you're in your own house and having the dread of like, I don't want to go upstairs and I don't want to open the door, and it's your child, and you can't do a damn thing about it, and you can't change how you feel, it's completely out of your control. It's just I don't think any movie has been able to match that dread from both the mother's point of view, from Reagan's point of view. It's just so popable. It's so good. It's so good.

Corey 5:59

When people really nail us down are like, okay, what is your absolute favorite? I think Kendall and I both agree that the exorcist is definitely there. And we even have a little exorcist display at our breakfast area.

Kendall 6:11

We have a cool bust of Reagan, and it's creepy looking on its own, but then we decorate her like she wears a Santa hat at Christmas.

Kimberly 6:22

It's just so dramatic and it's so theatrical, and it's really rare for a movie that slow to keep your attention and really be it.

Corey 6:33

I absolutely adore your Substack. You're very prolific and love getting the new emails from you on the regular. So thank you for doing that. And Canona, I think it's so important that we're seeing things happen, diversity in the genre. But you know, we definitely need more voices, more women's voices, more people of color, more queer voices. And so we advocate for that all the time, you know, because if you think about historically, all three uh of those groups were not necessarily treated very well in horror. And then we'll get to the we'll get to our final question later, but we do we ask the last question is who's your favorite final person? Because we want to be as inclusive as we possibly can, and we appreciate the final girl trope. And final girl gets mentioned a lot in the episodes, but we like to say final person. But talk to me a little bit about what you see, like what you're doing specifically to kind of help empower women interested in horror in into building their online presence.

Kimberly 7:29

I had never heard of Substack before January, and how I got picked to it was there was a business coach that I follow, and she's she said that she's transitioning everything from social media from Instagram and Facebook over to Stuff Stack because she loves writing. And I said, Well, I love writing, so let me just check it out. And I started reading her her newsletter, and it just one day I was just like, you know what? I need to I was watching a horror movie as I always do. I said, you know what? Let me just start playing around and writing what I think about horror movies. And horror concierge came to mind because all my friends and family, they always asked me, like, what horror movie are you watching? What should I watch this weekend? What should I, you know, what's that? What's a hidden gem? So I'm like, oh, I'll be the former concierge. And so it started off just me recommending horror movies and books. And then as I started getting um more into it and the months started passing by, women, uh writers in horror that have a newsletter on subside started DMing me. And they're like, oh my gosh, I love this stuff, and you know, I love how you write, but I'm scared to put, you know, I I'm a lawyer by day, and I have two kids, and I love Goli Horror, but I'm scared to write about what I want to write about. And I'm like, why? You know, and and I started getting a lot of those DMs from women who already have newsletters but are like dormant, not posting a lot, or have really great newsletter premises, but you know, they have whatever kind of internal block where they're really great writers as far as books, but they're kind of stuck in the newsletter world. So that's when I started really diving into okay, let me show, let me display how I view horror movies through the link of women's empowerment. So I started featuring a horror movie a month, um, just doing the parallels between whatever has happened in the movie and sort of a woman empowerment theme, whether it's resilience or leadership or gaslighting or whatever it is. And it just started growing and growing. I said, okay, I'm looking on something here, and I just went all in. And you know, I've already been watching horror movies, but to sort of look at it from this lens, and I was already like cheering, like whenever a woman does something really cool in the horror movies, I'm like, okay, let me channel that into my writing. So that's how the whole started.

Corey 9:38

Very cool. How has the last 10 or so months and the climate and the country sort of affected your purview of horror?

COVID Resilience & Horror Fans (Zombie-Apocalypse Training)

Kimberly 9:48

I don't watch the news. Like, I love horror movies. I don't want to like combine, you know, I have enough with the horror movies. I don't need like the real real life firm. I feel like whatever's going on, whether it's internally or externally, that horror movies can and books can be used as a way to deal with it. The American journal psychology said that during COVID, horror movie, horror fans were more resilient, they had better mental health dealing with COVID, because we've already seen all the zombie movies, we've already seen all the drama that could possibly happen. Like COVID was nothing new to us, you know. So I mean, I feel like if you're a horror fan, you know, okay, I already got like my survival kit. I already know, you know, like we already know how to deal with it. I feel like for horror fans, that's nothing, nothing new, nothing like first every night.

Corey 10:44

No, I mean we have to be resilient, you know, for sure, because we're we're all weirdos and outsiders or felt that way, and horror is definitely a huge outlet for us to not feel that way, or just be in a community of weirdo.

Kimberly 10:57

Whatever I call my community horror concierge, but you know, I I've always felt weird and I've always sort of hidden my like internally, and my friends and family know I love horror, and I know like I'm obsessed with it, but like in corporate America, in outside where I've always sort of like hidden that because you know, I'm a professional black woman, you know, I'm a feminine, you know, and I'm not supposed to like horror, you know. So I've always had like this, I don't know. But then the more and more I meet women, like my son goes to a private Montessori school, and the director of the program, she's you know, in her late 60s, early 70s, and she's British. And she found my newsletter and she goes, I'm subscribing to. And I'm like, really? And and I hate when people say that to me. So my when I did it to her, I was like, I can't believe I just did that to her. I can't believe I just did that to her. And she's like, Yeah, I love horror. And I'm like, oh my gosh, that's awesome. And she's like, Come to my office, come to my office. So I go into her office and she calls the door and she pulls up her shirt, and on her back is tattoos of Freddy and Frankenstein. And I'm just like, get the hell out of here. It's so cool to see horror fans who you wouldn't think would be horror fans.

Kendall 12:12

Yep.

Kimberly 12:13

And I'm such an advocate for that because we're we're everywhere.

Corey 12:16

Absolutely, yeah. I don't know how often you go to horror events, but I mean you definitely see all walks of life in there at all ages. I mean, you're seeing like infants till grandmas in wheelchairs, so they're having a good old time.

Kimberly 12:29

Yeah, I love it. No, my son opportunities are not, he does not. I try and but he does not, he just he's not a horror fan.

Corey 12:35

No, can't not get into it.

Kimberly 12:37

No, I think most people do is uh fine nights at Freddie, and that's about it.

Corey 12:42

And do you and your sister still share movies to check out and books and things like that?

Kimberly 12:46

Yeah, oh yeah. She we talk about horror all the time, all the time. And we're I mean, she I will say I'm more of a more prolific horror fan than she is. She can't do anything gory or anything super, super, you know, like like torture porn, like that stuff. She can't do that stuff, and she doesn't only do international horror. I love I am such a fan of international horror, especially Asian horror. Um, so I I'm across the board.

The Knife Scene in Bring Her Back

Kendall 13:11

Yeah, we're all over it too, for sure. Or what were we watching the other night and I had to stop? I had to go. It was oh, it was that where the web kid was by bring her back.

Kimberly 13:23

Bring her back, yeah.

Kendall 13:24

Where the little boy is chewing on the knife. And I know it's fake, obviously, but I'm just like, I don't that.

unknown 13:29

Yeah.

Corey 13:30

And it's so funny. So we our our other podcast is about DNA surprises, and so we found Kendall's birth family, you know, eight plus years ago. And so, and and we're really, really close with his oldest sister on his birth mother's side, and two of her best friends are nurses, and so we kind of have our nurse chat, and they started asking for recommendations. And I got to be a little careful, like how I curate, because the first one was weapons, and then the next one was bring her back. I'm like, maybe children in apparel movies, maybe we should you know for Nikki nurses. I'm so excited to bring Kendall's sister kind of into our world. And she told us, I think, early on when we met that like she loved the Bates Motel remake show and stuff, so we already knew she was already kind of like couldn't handle it. But yeah, I mean, we're sweating I'm giving them some pretty extreme movies to check out. Yeah, I love each other. Yeah, yeah. We're recording this on kind of an exciting day. Fridays are when new movies come out, but today is the release of Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein. Have you already watched it?

Kimberly 14:39

No, not yet.

Corey 14:40

Us either. It just literally came out today, but yeah, but this is one we've been really looking forward to for a long time. Yeah.

Kimberly 14:47

I'm actually looking forward to the Predator Badlands that came up coming up. Yeah.

Corey 14:53

And it's getting great reviews. I love seeing, or it's not just like, okay, another sequel, another whatever. Like this looks totally wild and crazy, and I'm glad they're keeping that going. I think studios are starting to realize, like, oh, horror fans are very clever. They like a good story. It doesn't just have to be like slasher every 10 minutes, an exciting kill. They're willing to like have that build up for a half an hour or so before things get bonkers. Weapons doesn't get crazy until like the last 20 minutes, to where I would watch it, and I'm like, okay, this is a horror movie.

Kimberly 15:28

That's my top one so far for 2025.

Corey 15:31

Wow.

Kimberly 15:32

So far. That's yeah.

Corey 15:33

Yeah, love it, love it. And I love that it was a hit, and now we've got this new iconic horror villain, too.

Kimberly 15:42

Love her.

Corey 15:43

Absolutely.

Kimberly 15:43

I don't know. The movie was so I mean, would I like her backstory? Sure. It would be the cherry on top. Do I really need it? No. I think the movie was it just ended with such a nice little bow. It was so good.

Corey 15:54

Same. I don't think we needed it. And you know, honestly, I don't think we necessarily needed the black phone sequel. I don't know if you liked it or not. I didn't love it.

The Black Phone 2 and the Freddy Krueger Comparison

Kimberly 16:02

From what I saw from the trailers, they're kind of like turning them into Freddy, like a Freddy. I will go check it out.

Corey 16:06

I mean, it's certainly worth a watch. And but of course it was a hint, so they're gonna try to see what they could do for the sequel. But it was like the source material was a pretty short story as it is. So like they really had to beef it up for the first one, and there was nothing in that story that would make you think that it was gonna get supernatural or more supernatural than it did. Like you said, creating a new Freddy, but the world needs Freddie, and we've got just this last month, Robert England and John Carpenter getting their stars on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

Speaker 3 16:34

It's like way overdue.

Corey 16:36

Thank goodness we're starting to see this more. I think horror is starting to get a little bit more respected. And are you getting the sense of that with people that you're in communication with the women who are yeah poor creators?

Kimberly 16:47

I think, yeah, I think a lot of non-horror fans are saying, Oh, I actually saw substance and I saw weapons and I saw sinners. Because they don't think those are horror movies. And like they're actually our horror movies, but if hey, anyway they could, you know, we could covert, I'll take it. I'll take it. But I think those three movies you're like, oh, it's so good, it was so good. And and a lot of non-horror fans are telling you, like, sinners, it's not really a horror movie, but it is just a drama about that time with racism and it just happened to have vampires. And I'm like, actually, no, it's pretty all movie.

Corey 17:21

You could be describing a lot of horror movies right now, as far as like, oh yeah, it had a little bit of a ghost element to it, but it was just a drama. I'm like, no, it's it's a horror. I mean, you could certainly cross genres, but yeah, I think that it's like when some people who aren't fans and they hear horror, you probably think of like 80s slashers or old school like universal monsters and stuff. I'm just like, ah, I'm not my thing. There's so much more to it.

Kimberly 17:44

Yeah, and that's what I love about us horror fans. We know there's so many different facets and permutations, and I personally think I would rather watch a bad horror than a bad comedy or a bad drama or a bad whatever other horror movie genre because this is just so many different ways a horror movie could go, and it could be super intellectual and it could be super campy, and everything in between. And I think that horror is that genre that can only do that.

Kendall 18:15

Yes, I think rom-coms just about make me want to gag. So, like, that is not my thing. Like it can be well done, and I can appreciate it, but 10 minutes that I'm good. Yeah, me too.

Corey 18:27

Just give us a few specifics on how you've been uh helping women with their Substacks and getting their uh their newsletter A game.

Kimberly 18:34

Sure, yeah. So um Horror and Her is a business I've I created where it's all through coaching, just those that are coaching. And I have um I'm just starting to launch digital digital programming courses and um one-on-one and group coaching, where it's not teaching you how to write because these women are phenomenal storytellers or phenomenal writers, but it's just sort of honing in and structuring their writing so that their newsletters up. I mean, I think um some a lot of them have great uh newsletter hooks and point reviews, but it's just helping them to hone that in so that it really has their their particular unique horror voice can really shine through and their newsletter can really stand for something because everyone writes uh horror movie review newsletter. You know, and horror movie reviews or horror movie reviews are horror. Book reviews or book reviews or book reviews. But what is especially as a woman who historically hasn't had a voice in Farber, other than tripping and falling in like short course in a t-shirt, like what you have a unique horror voice. So let's instead of not saying you can't do a movie review, but what about that movie? What do you want to say to that? What is your platform all of a sudden that you what is your hill to die on? What is your something that you your point that you can't shut up about? And why do you love horror to begin with as a woman? And why are you even choosing to write about it to begin with? So bringing in their personal, their obsessions, their fascinations, their fears to really help them develop a point of view so that their news that are stand out and build and grow on both subscribers, your readership.

Corey 20:03

Love that, love that so much. With someone with their finger on the pulse right now and knowing you know the history of horror, what do you see? What do you envision happening in the next five years as far as diversity in horror? And what would you love to see in the next five years?

Kimberly 20:17

What I would love to see was no more remakes. Even if it's good, even if it's good, like we're done. Agree original storytelling. So while I while I oh I thought Bring Her Back was okay, um I gave it higher marks because it was an original storyline. Movies like Talk Talk to Me, Weapons, Sinners, like completely original, completely out of the box. And I think um over the last decade or so we've kind of lost like really good original storytelling. Like, yes, the movie may be great, may have great action, great gore, great creatures, but the storyline of oh I had something else before, you know, it's not really that thought out through, you know, plot holes or whatever. And I think in the early, like the early 2000s, even though it was like, oh, it can't be in as cheesy, those were some original storytellings, like Dust Till Dawn, you know, everyone's comparing Dust Till Dawn and Center is only like two different movies, but okay. But Dust Till Dawn was like that same thing, like you didn't really know it was a Van Hard movie, he told us a Van Hard movie. So I just I hope as we go into next year and beyond, we just get out of the box, brand new. And also bring back, I miss when was the last time he had a really good werewolf movie, a really good zombie movie, you know, a really good creature feature movie, you know, bringing back those sort of dormant sub genres that we haven't seen in a very long time.

Corey 21:38

One of my favorite voices in the last decade for horror and who knew that it would he was gonna become such a huge voice is Jordan Peel, who has also been involved with some producing some remakes, and I liked the Candyman film that came out a couple few years ago.

Kimberly 21:52

I did.

Jordan Peele Remaking The People Under the Stairs

Corey 21:53

What are your feelings about people under the stairs being remade?

Kimberly 21:56

I'm gonna see it, yes. And I'm always gonna go see a horror movie, no matter what. I'm always gonna go see it. But I'm just like, okay, do we need but then also you could also argue it's a hidden gem that meet that has that deserves to come to new light and to give him respect and so people go back and watch the original.

Corey 22:13

So I do see it from that angle, but I'm just like, okay, but Jordan Peel, like you gave us get out, like there has to be something in those brain cells that something brand new, you know, like yeah, and hopefully whoever had the concept for the story is like, oh, that's brilliant. Yeah, we gotta do that, you know. And it very well could be. And of course, we'll see it too, but it's like we just watched the original maybe three or four months ago, and it's just such a bonkers, crazy movie. It's like you can't recreate that.

Kimberly 22:43

You know, I agree, I agree. Did you watch it on Tubi? Was it on Tubi that you saw the old?

Corey 22:47

I think it probably was.

Kimberly 22:48

Yeah, yeah. I think Tubi is doing. I always say everyone's always saying, What what streaming server should I get to watch horror? And I'm like, listen, Netflix is great for if you like international horror shutter. If you're a horror fan, it's mandatory to have Tubi is coming because the MVP for me for this year. I mean, they have everything and anything like things I have never even heard of or seen before.

Corey 23:11

Right?

Kimberly 23:13

They're even surprising me with stuff. Like I just saw um Audrey Rose with a 1972 movie with Anthony Hopkins. No, it's phenomenal.

Corey 23:22

Yeah, Tubi is doing it right. And not there's not a crazy amount of commercials, too. Like, there's enough, like if you need to go get another glass of water or you need to pee or something.

unknown 23:32

Great.

Corey 23:32

Let the kids understand what we had to go through growing up watching all the face and stuff. But yeah, you're right. And Tubi's getting into original horror programming that would be interesting. Yeah, it would be really interesting to see what happens with horror and streaming in the next five years just because we're seeing so many things change right now, and everybody's seeing like and then that there's a lot of chatter about on Tubian horror, and it's free. So you're getting to see decades of amazing movies, like you said, and they're finding stuff that's like out of print and things like that that you just hadn't, yeah, we hadn't heard of. So can really we love this question. Who is your favorite final person in a horror film?

Kimberly 24:11

My favorite final person in a horror film is Naru from Prey. I love her. I love her, I love her, I love her. Because you see, and every final person, the reason why they're I believe the reason why they're a final person is not because they just survive and make it to the end, but because you see their arc, you see their evolution from victim to not even knowing they were a victim to having awareness that they're a victim to taking back control and then finally defeating it. So you see their transformation as a human being. But with Naru and Prey, she's fighting so many different internal and external um tropes and stereotypes and norms and expectations, and as a person and as a woman, and you know, and she's expected to just stay home and hunt berries and cook and do medicine, and she doesn't want to do that. She doesn't want to do that. And and you can see how she doubts herself and then how she comes back stronger, and and at the end, where she becomes the the the chief, the tribal chief because she defeats the predator, it's just chef's kiss. I and there's a scene where she after she defeats the predator, she does like this tribal chant that is typically the men do, and then she does it, and it's just my heart just oh good, it's so good, it's so good. So she's my favorite final person. I love the predator. I love the predator, and I love I'm looking forward to seeing this new Battalance because I heard that they feature it's not like a human fighting the predator, it's the predator as a final person, as a final girl, as a final person. So I'm looking forward to seeing how they do that because we're rooting for the predator in this in this new one. So I'm looking forward to seeing how they do that.

Corey 26:04

Yeah, it's I mean the trailer's uh amazing and the reviews that have been coming in, yeah. Definitely a cool one to see on the big screen. Awesome. Again, we love your Substack. Keep doing what you're doing. Thank you for helping women find their horror voice through Substack and newsletters and stuff. It's important. This has been great. I'm so glad we got to connect.

Speaker 3 26:24

Thanks for having me so much. Love your podcast. Thanks, my favorite episode is the D. Wallace's episode.

Corey 26:29

We'll have to have her back on for sure. Kimberly, huge thanks for joining us and for making your podcast debut with horror heels. Your work with horror pulsierge and horror and her is proof that horror isn't just about what scares us, it's about what shapes us. Heliaks, go subscribe to Kimberly's Substack, follow her work, and tell us your favorite final person in the comments or on social. We'll be back next time with more chills, catharsis, and community. And remember, when people ask, is horror good for mental wellness? You say, of course it is. The Horror Heals Podcast is produced and presented by Hab the Kawhi the Cabbage LLC.