Why Black Christmas Still Haunts Us Every Holiday Season

Black Christmas may have turned fifty last year, but its power has never faded. This episode is a relaunch of one of Horror Heals’ most important holiday conversations, revisiting why Bob Clark’s bleak, unsettling classic still feels disturbingly real decades later.

Corey and Kendall are joined by Lynne Griffin, who played Claire, one of the most enduring images in horror history. Together, they explore why Black Christmas refuses to age out of relevance, how fear of the unseen hits deeper than gore, and why this film continues to resonate with audiences who feel like outsiders.

The conversation moves beyond nostalgia into fandom, conventions, mental wellness, and the surprising comfort horror can bring during the darkest time of year. Lynn reflects on the strength of the film’s women, the strange intimacy of fan connections, and why horror fans often form some of the most compassionate communities.

This is not just a Christmas horror movie. It is a ritual. One that asks us to sit with discomfort, uncertainty, and survival.

And if you are still wondering, is horror good for mental wellness? Of corpse it is.

Thank you for listening to Horror Heals.

Share the show with someone who loves horror and someone who needs a little healing.

If you want to support our guests, check the show notes for links to their work, conventions, and fundraising pages.

You can also listen to our sister podcast Family Twist, a show about DNA surprises, identity, and the families we find along the way.

Horror Heals is produced by How the Cow Ate the Cabbage LLC.

Is horror good for mental wellness? Of corpse it is.

Thank you for listening to Horror Heals. 

Share the show with someone who loves horror and someone who needs a little healing.

If you want to support our guests, check the show notes for links to their work, conventions, and fundraising pages.

You can also listen to our sister podcast Family Twist, a show about DNA surprises, identity, and the families we find along the way.

Horror Heals is produced by How the Cow Ate the Cabbage LLC.

Is horror good for mental wellness? Of corpse it is.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Hello, boys. It's your old bell that I can hear the voice of the good people. And I want to welcome my good feelers of the Horror Heels Podcast. It's Horror Good for Mental Wellness. But of course it is. I delight in the delicious deaths of pitiful people. Understood. So get ready for a hell of a good time with my new feed, Corian Kendall. On the Horror Heels Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Welcome back to Horror Heels, the podcast where the season might be merry, but the stories are downright scary. Today, we're decking the halls with dread as we dive into the twisted Yuletide world of Black Christmas. The OG slasher that made us spear the phone and check the attic. And who better to celebrate with than the incomparable Lynn Griffin, the legend behind Claire, horror's most iconic victim with a bag over her head and a rocking chair to call her own. Lynn, it's an honor to have you on this, the 50th anniversary of Black Christmas. Let's unwrap this bloody gift together.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Hello. Hi Lynn. I'm sorry this has been such a roundabout event. I didn't know I was gonna have to get a root canal.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

And then it didn't go as planned, and I got really sick. Anyway, but I'm better now.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Wow, good. I had to get a root canal when I was 12. It's the comedy of errors story. I was shoveling the driveway, and I guess it's a holiday-related thing because I was shoveling the snow off the driveway in the Midwest. I went to put the snow shovel back over the fence. I put it shovel first, and our sweet German Shepherd Mix dog Gizmo jumped up, smacked the shovel part of it, which knocked the handle into my mouth and knocked my tooth in half into the snow on a Saturday. So trying to get into the dentist on a Saturday in the 1980s was not easy.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Oh my god. Well, knock on wood. I I have been a really healthy person all my life. So now 72 years old. But as far as dental stuff, I have had nightmare after nightmare. I finally did a lot of research and found a dentist that could correct all the mistakes that happened by previous dentists. Thank God I found this guy because he was like, oh no, you can't own this. And you know, people, I guess if anything went wrong, they just wanted to pull cheat out. Right. And I went, you know what, didn't they keep my teeth if I can't?

SPEAKER_01 3:17

No kidding.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

Everything seems okay right now.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Good. Well, we're glad you're feeling better.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Thank you. Yeah. And I hope you're feeling well. And cool and all outward age spirit.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

That's right. Oh my goodness, yes. Well, we are. And it's, you know, Black Christmas has been one of our favorites and annual celebration here. So we started sharing the movie with our cousins who lived near us in Boston a few years back. And we've just kind of we created like a Black Christmas party. And they adore it. There's wine involved. Barb would be proud. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

Barb would be pleased. Yeah, but like we would probably switch to that.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Jack would so yeah, it's um it's a treat getting to speak with you. And literally just about a half an hour ago, I'd mentioned to Kendall, like, I think they earlier this year released a making of book about Black Christmas. And and while Googling that, just realized that someone wrote a novelization of the movie that's coming out this month. And you wrote the foreword to it.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Yeah. I tell you, there has been so much interest. We've been building interest certainly over the last five years, but because of it being 50 years old this year, I think people are doing a board game. Oh uh uh a couple of young filmmakers and myself made a sequel to Black Christmas that's that you can watch on YouTube. It's for free. It's me, Billy. Like that's a leap. Well, I can't be in it. I'm dead. They said, no, no, we've written a role for you. I play Claire Sister Nancy, a private investigator, who solves the long-ago cold case.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Really cool. Love that. Love that.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

You can watch it on YouTube Arts, Chapter 1 and Chapter 2. I suggest you watch the two of them together, and I'm in the second half.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Very cool. It's the gift that keeps on giving, right?

SPEAKER_02 5:28

But yeah, and now somebody has made an action figure of Claire. There is an action figure of Claire. I think you really know you've made it once.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

You have your own action figure.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

The detail is brilliant. Right down to the bag on the rod, and the costume is brilliant. She's sitting in a rocking chair.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

I love it. Well, we will have that soon. We've got to get that.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

The gift that keeps on giving.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

What's really remarkable about the movie? Well, there's many remarkable things about Black Christmas, but you know, while the Claire character is only briefly in the movie, she carries through the entire film. I said to Kendall the other day, I bet the name Claire is the most spoken name in the full movie. I'm sure that's true. And of course, the image of Claire, you know, with the bag in her head on the rocking chair, it was you know used in the marketing. That's the iconic image. When people think of Black Christmas, that is the image they think of of you suffocated.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

That's why once the film was rediscovered when it was released on DVD and Blu-ray, fans started coming after the I guess. Now I for these conventions, and I get to sign pictures of myself with a bag on my head. Sometimes if things get really slow at the convention, I'll put a bag on my head, and then I get a lot of attention. I love pictures of me with the bag on my head. When we were making a film, towards the end of it, Bob Clark took me aside and said, I want to show you something. And took me and showed me the mock-up of the poster. And I said, I hope you're all right with this. We wanted to use this image on a poster. And I thought that was kind of amazing and wonderful. Little did I know how many years later that image is like everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Yes. So you mentioned the conventions, and you know that the conventions are are near and dear to our hearts here. And this podcast concept happened because of a horror convention, just seeing how powerful the healing power of horror is for our mental wellness. I imagine you've had people come up to your table over the years and talk to you about that.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Because I've certainly talked to a lot of people recently about it. I found one of the things fascinating was how many young women were coming up to me and telling me that they felt the film was very empowering for young women. You know, at the time we didn't think that. But because, first of all, Jeff Bradshaw, I mean, she takes matters into her own hands. We're talking about making a film in late 73, releasing it in 74, and she talks about getting an abortion, which was absolutely back then. Nobody spoke of getting an abortion. I grew up Roman Catholic. Each of the characters is flawed, but each of the characters, I mean, even though I know I guess because you know, we all die except for dear Olivia. And I think you feel there's strength in all those women in different ways, and and they show it in different ways. It's really interesting that this is now an another element for me to think of it being in some way hearing or empowering to be able to say you can take charge of your own life, you can move forward. I keep thinking of Jess and how strong she is. And when we were making the sequel, we really wanted to create new characters that would be in the sequel as strong young women as well. Jess Branshaw, in our thinking, does not have an abortion, and she does give birth to a child who then gives birth to another child who is Sam, who stars in Isvilly. To bring these characters back and have them committed to finding the answer is part of what I always think of with mental health issues. It's very important to find your answer. And if that means looking very directly into yourself and saying, What are the demons? What are they? And let me identify them and let me remove them, or at least set them aside, or at least know how to deal with them on a day-to-day basis.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Yes, and I I think you hit upon something really important is that here we are 50 years later, and the conversations and the things were that are still happening, at least in the United States. It's it's amazing. You know, if you think about the Peter character and his point of view, it's like, wow, how poignant that was for Bob Clark to recognize 50 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Yeah, absolutely. And it made me think of something else last time, but it keeps it'll come back. You know, because of other things that I've been talking to people about, and I guess one of the things was that someone had asked me, why do you think there is this sort of subgenre of humanity who is fascinated with horror? I find that a hard question to answer. I have met so many people through the conventures who have a devotion to this genre like they like it's a religion.

SPEAKER_03 11:11

Yes. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

And yet they're wonderfully charming, open. I love meeting these people. They are fascinating because their commitment to particular films and Black Christmas being one of them is uh astonishing to me. And I I do wonder what is it about the horror genre that does attract people. What what say you?

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Yeah, well, I mean, I I'll say for that for us, I think it started out as a feeling of being a little bit of an outsider, you know, as young people, you know, Kendall and I are a couple, and so growing up as a gay person, feeling a little bit like I'm on the fringe and sort of connecting with the characters who are the outsiders, but they're fighting back, they're persevering against the demons.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

And I think that's what sets Black Christmas apart, because it's not just about people meeting Horendas Ms. It's not just about that. There's a much deeper core, I think, in the movie. And you know, I'm not even really sure I can say for certain, although I think Bob Clark was a genius in many ways as a filmmaker, and also a very well-adjusted, happy person who was making horror movies, although he also made a Christmas story, which was my other favorite Christmas movie. But that he had that awareness at the time, I can't say that we were in that bubble of going, this is gonna be an important film down the road. I can't say that we felt that. Um I I I assume Bob was actually trying to portray a a lot because even though a script is written by somebody else, so much of the input of a film is bogged. It's definitely bumped. And and Bob was the one of the jollyest persons I have ever met. I mean, he made the whole thing like a Christmas party. You're making a horror movie, but you're all having the best time. Just the best songs, drinks, cookies every day. It was like a Christmas party.

unknown 13:24

Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Even in the attic. He still made it fun that it was basically Bob, Burt Junk, the cinematographer, and myself in the attic. And Bob would sit in the rocking chair opposite me with his foot on the rocker. So he's rocking me back and forth. And he's the one that likes to sing and make jokes, and you know, even say to me at one point, okay, the crew is breaking for lunch, we're in just stay there. We'll bring me something with a straw. You know, green, just uh a delightful human being, and a real typical genius, too. Almost showed uh the cinematography as groundbreaking at the time.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

Incredible. You hit upon a couple of great things, the combination of the writing and directing. You get to know these characters well so quickly. And you get to know Claire even after she's killed, you get to know her better through the characters that continue to appear in the film. There's no generic person here. Everybody seems very real. You juxtapose that with such a unique idea for the killer is that you never see the killer, but you see things through the killer's eyes. It's so disturbing, you know.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

Yeah. Well, but I think this is why it I mean, it truly is disturbing. Because I always think you're more frightened of what you don't know or you don't see. You hear something, you hear the creak in the wall or in the attic or in the basement, but you don't know what it is. You're not shown right away what it is.

SPEAKER_03 15:03

Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

I mean, we love the fact that we were making it to me, Billy, that they kept saying the only reference we really have for Billy, because obviously Billy is the star and it's me Billy, is the eyeball. And they said, Do you remember what color the eyeball was? Because we're gonna get an eyeball. We want we want an eyeball. I remember that's the color of his eyeball. Very clear. That's the only thing you do to you, Billy, and Black Christmas.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

And I love that you also bring up a Christmas story because here's this super dark Christmas movie, the bleakest of the bleak. We really don't know at the end of the movie. Is Jess gonna survive? Billy is still in the house. The tops leave.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

Poor queer. Nobody's even bothered to find her.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

She's being well preserved in that cold attic.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Now that would have been an interesting sequel.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

And then on the flip side, you've got a Christmas story almost a decade later, which has be also become one of the most beloved and re-watched Christmas movies of all time. I was thinking about this earlier today. What if a Christmas story is actually the prequel to Black Christmas? And Billy is actually the boy character grown up, you know? It's like, Billy, you'll shoot your eye out. Well, it could be two different time periods.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Randy is very, very suspect.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Yes. Yes. That's true. That is true. It could be Randy.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

Randy. I mean, he likes to hide under the kitchen sink with his cup of milk. So, you know, obviously. But but then again, you know, you go this thing with the rifle, and you know, you'll shoot your eye out. I mean, there you go. Ah, shoot your eye out. Very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Yeah. I think we've hit upon something. I think we've got like the mashup movie that we've got to make now.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

The more it does, you know, it does like, you know, when I think of how many times I've watched the film, I actually watched it once on an IMAX screen, which was incredible. I saw so many things I I hadn't seen before. But you go, it does keep bringing up issues and conversation. And certainly for the last year and a half, when we've been working on this other film and trying to really collaborate and put together what do we think actually happened? What did actually happen? It's been fascinating to think also, because I think you'll find it's me, Billy, really interesting because it does deal with mental health.

SPEAKER_03 17:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

Particularly Billy's and what is Billy's story.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Yeah. Now, how do you feel about the remakes that have there's been two remakes over the years?

SPEAKER_02 17:41

I mean, initially everybody told me not to watch them. There was one that I didn't mind and one that I thought was ridiculous. Some of the acting in it was really, really quite fine. And then there was one where somehow they introduced some sort of black view and uh fraternity. I I I I I kind of got lost in whatever they were the story they were trying to tell. And also I don't know how well they'd actually uh short uh what the original was like and and the the atmosphere in the original, they seem to kind of go a little almost comic, which well, or at least I thought it was that. I couldn't just spend my disgust. I don't believe this. I don't just think about Black Christmas, the original is you can believe everything is actually happening. Start introducing some surreal elements, it loses its authenticity to me. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

And I think the magic of the original is that you are left almost in the dark as to who the Billy character is. You get little hints through the phone calls, but I love movies that let your imagination run wild because you really don't know what's happening when he's voicing his parents and what happened to Agnes. Your mind can go to some really scary places.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

I think you're gonna be fascinated when you watch the three Billy, you're gonna go, Wow, what is it? We went all over the place, you know, and and it is really interesting because the young lady, Victoria, who plays Cam, who is the granddaughter of Jess Bradshaw. Yeah. And we kept saying to her, So you must be the wart. And so when Agnes says it's just like having a wart removed, I always assume she's referring to having an abortion. It's just like having a wart removed. So we kept calling Victoria the wart.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Oh wow. Okay. That's that's a wild concept to think about.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

If we look beyond Black Christmas, I I don't think that Bob ever really meant. To make a sequel. I think he kept the ending enigmatic for a reason. I I I never heard that he was actually planning on doing anything to, you know, obviously tie and eat dough on the end of that film and try and but these two young Canadian filmmakers decided that they would do it. I was delighted that they did because I I I think it is something that everybody said, What did happen? Right. Who is villain? Right. Who is Agnes?

SPEAKER_01 20:31

For sure.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

And we're and you'll get to meet them anyway.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Um after after dinner.

unknown 20:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

So we okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

It's a nice, uh, nice uh Christmas amount. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Um we would be remiss if we didn't mention a very underrated film that you were in called Curtains, which also takes place in winter time.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

No spoilers, everyone, but it is nice to actually uh make it to the end of a film. I have been to so many different ways on film. My husband and I always threw up a list of Browning, yeah. Set on fire, yeah. Just from a tall building, yeah. You know, I mean there's so many strangles, yeah. Okay. So, you know, it it is interesting to actually talk about curtains from a different perspective of my character, although I try not to be a spoiler because nobody knows. And even when they're watching the film, they evidently don't really suspect much. So it's an interesting or you call that a bookend to that particular decade of my career.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Well, we'll keep it spoiler-free here. I mean, if people haven't watched Black Christmas yet, shame on them. And they should know that that Claire dies in the first act.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

We had a lot of problems and initially, and the director took his name off it. We did a lot of reshoots on it, maybe even the last quarter or third of the film, and something that we shot a year later after Peter Simpson, the producer, took over and decided to do a new ending for the film. When it was released, I remember seeing it at an awful little movie theater in New York somewhere with about six other men. It came out at a bootleg version with some other films. But then somebody discovered it, decided to remaster it. And the new clean, beautiful Blu-ray, it's fantastic. Even though I still think there's a lot of holes in the film, I think when you watch it, if you watch it carefully, you're going, wait a minute, what happened to him? And how did she get here? Oh, there's a lot of loose answer in it.

SPEAKER_03 22:43

Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

But I think it still holds up. And I I I just always love the idea of you know, six actresses that do the same part, and one of them will kill to get it.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Love that.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

It was really, really fun. The cast was really fun. I really loved working with John Vernon. I loved the original director, Richard Shopka. I thought he was terrific. He was such an entoure. He had such a gorgeous eye, the way he was filming things and the way he directed it. But I think the producing company wanted more of a splash. So they got what they wanted. I think now Kurt has made it a little bit more of a life, and more people seem to be gradually discovering it.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

I hope so, because it's it's definitely an underrated gem.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

So I was fucked out of the Stratford Festival in Canada, playing Shakespearean roles to play a stand-up comic, which was terrifying. I had never done anything like that in my life. Where I said to me, okay, we're gonna shoot that scene where you have your stand-up cucina, we're gonna shoot it at Yuck Yucks, the comedy place where Jim Carrey got his start in Toronto. You just write something and we're gonna film it with a live audience.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Oh my goodness, no pressure, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:06

No pressure, no, it's a lovely challenge. And I was always playing what Claire is referred to as the perpetual virgin. So to play someone who was experienced a little more Bolton, Ray, Randy, whatever you want to call her. Sure. She speaks your mind. So it was a lovely character to play, very different.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Yeah, for sure. Well, the last question that we always ask our guests, and I have a little bit of a sneaking suspicion who you might say, but who is your favorite final person in a horror film? A character, a favorite final person. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

My favorite, oh my favorite character in a horror film.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

Well, final character, the one that makes it through and lives till the end. Well, that certainly wouldn't be me.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

Oh, gee. Thinking about how much I like Halloween and and how much I'm just enamored with Jamie Lee Curtis and the fact that she won an Oscar. I d I don't know whether I would call it my favorite character in a horror.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

It's a tough one.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

Yeah, well, I would think it would be more like for me. Like it would probably be a favorite villain.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

As opposed to that's totally fair. But I don't know if we're talking like older films or modern ones. Any one of my favorite characters, and I don't know whether it's really a horror film, is the way the Joker has been portrayed. Ah I don't know if you have watched The Penguin.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

I haven't finished it yet, but I have started it. Yeah, and it's pretty darn good.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

You know, the penguin's pretty great. But you see, I I do favor villains, and they're always much more fun to play rather than the goody girl. Much more fun to play, the bad girl. I have put it out into the universe that if someone listens to any of these podcasts that I do, what I want to play before it's too late is the little sweet Mandy who lives next door, who invites you over for tea and cookies, but she's really a serial killer.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

I've got this twisted idea, and Kendall and I have been going back and forth about some fiction stuff that we want to write. There is a screenplay that I want to write called Grandma and Grandpa's House. The inspiration comes from my sweet grandparents who would never harm a fly, but I want to turn them into serial killers.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

My husband is an actor, so you know, this is something that we've been trying to work on. We're actually working with some guy in Chicago right now on talking about trying to look at my husband wrote a play called The Swatter Brothers Dying Circus, and we're trying to turn that now into a film. There's something about the sweet, benign. You know, she probably has lots of cats and things when she's gardening and would be the least person that you would expect. Then I came up with the idea that she likes to do jigsaw puzzles. The operative word being saw. Once she has dismembered everybody in the basement after giving them tea and cookies, she puts them back together like a jigsaw puzzle.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

So it has kind of a Frankenstein theme to it. This all came because my husband just shot Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein.

SPEAKER_03 27:35

Ah.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

So he had a part in that. So when we went up obsessed with Frankenstein at the moment and, you know, reanimating. That might be in Frankenstein, the Marster might be my favorite character. The one that scares me the most is the werewolf in the original werewolf.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

And Terra Fighting. I don't know, something about this guy just turned it to a werewolf in front of your eyes, and that kind of crazy stop motion thing that they do with the makeup terrifies you.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 28:08

Let's write the screenplay. This is gonna it just seems to me it's gonna happen somewhere somehow.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

You know, because I have this really elaborate scissor collection. I do, Ravin does have a scissor connection. Some of them are quite gruesome looking. But you go, that would be part of it too. She likes to collect. Oh, you know what? The movie I really like speaking of Frankenstein and then Pooh. Did you see the movie? Oh, yes. With Mia Gaw? So Mia Gaw plays the young woman in Guillermo Gel Toro's Frankenstein as well. So I got to meet her with a sweetheart. But again, that kind of uh I mean, Pooh is such a character that you just don't suspect. There's something about the innocence of someone. And I always think there's a phrase that says the devil always wears a pleasing face.

SPEAKER_03 29:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

And also, yes, if you could see me right now, I'm firing light impulse or showing. Do we think I could be a drunk smuggler? I could be the jackal.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

I love another good series right now. The jackal is airing with Eddie Redmane. I love all this stuff. I love the the sort of you know, in fact, in early days, I think probably Lizzie Borden was the person who fascinated me the most.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

We love how your mind works, Liz. It's fantastic. It's giving me all sorts of inspiration for uh what we can have grandma do.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

Now, where where are you located?

SPEAKER_01 29:40

We are in New England, just on the seacoast of New Hampshire, uh right outside of Maine. It's beautiful here. Yes, it's very nice.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

That's a place I've always wanted to live. I'm in Toronto, so I'm in this pocket that we only got a little bit of adjusting, but around us, like north of us, northern Ontario, and certainly south of us, when you're talking Buffalo, Detroit, like below Lake Ontario, got just dumped.

SPEAKER_03 30:08

Ugh.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

And we haven't seen much of it here at all, knock on wood. The great part is that uh uh my husband is originally from California, so we head back to my husband's home state in San Diego to celebrate with his family. I hope we was sun movie shining.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Yes. Oh, love San Diego, so beautiful. Well, wonderful. This has been a delight, and we will definitely stay in touch. You've got my wheels turning about the grandma and grandpa movies. As soon as I get a good outline going, I'll send it your way.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

And make sure that you send me an address so that I can send you one of my Black Christmas homemade snow globes or ornaments.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Oh, absolutely. We would adore that. Thank you so much. Lynn, thank you for this gift of a conversation and for giving us so much to chew on. From terrifying addicts to serial killer grandmas. Your stories, your creativity, and your humor are as timeless as Black Christmas itself. To our listeners, let this be a reminder that horror isn't just about the blood and gore. It's about survival, strength, and sometimes even fighting your community of fellow weirdos. So light a candle for Claire, pour one out for Barb, keep your ears tuned for those holiday creeps in the attic. Until next time, stay spooky, stay safe, and have a killer holiday season. And remember, when someone asks, Is horror good for mental wellness? You tell them, uh horror visitors. The Horror Heels podcast is produced and presented by How the Cow Eat the Cabbage LLC.