Demon Twink and the Healing Power of Horror

On the surface, Demon Twink is exactly what the title promises: a stylish, campy queer horror film packed with demons, dark humor and a deal with the devil. Underneath, it is something much deeper.

Filmmaker Steven George joins Corey to talk about creating horror that entertains while exploring identity, aging, love, chosen family and the emotional baggage we all carry. Along the way, they discuss why horror has always been a safe place for people to process fear, grief and the parts of themselves they once tried to hide.

The conversation takes an unexpected turn when Steven reveals that he is also an adoptee, leading to a heartfelt discussion that bridges the worlds of Horror Heals and our sister podcast, Family Twist. It is a reminder that whether we are talking about horror movies or family secrets, the stories that scare us often have the greatest power to heal.

If you love independent horror, queer filmmaking and conversations that go beyond the surface, this episode is for you.

About Steven George

Steven George is an award-winning filmmaker and writer whose acclaimed horror short Demon Twink blends supernatural horror, camp, romance and queer storytelling into a bold and emotionally resonant experience. His work explores identity, belonging and the complexities of human connection while celebrating horror's unique ability to entertain, challenge and heal. Steven is currently developing Demon Twink into a feature film.

Thank you for listening to Horror Heals. 

Share the show with someone who loves horror and someone who needs a little healing.

If you want to support our guests, check the show notes for links to their work, conventions, and fundraising pages.

You can also listen to our sister podcast Family Twist, a show about DNA surprises, identity, and the families we find along the way.

Horror Heals is produced by Mosaic Multimedia LLC.

Is horror good for mental wellness? Of corpse it is.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Chris Stanley, who has a huge social following, pops up in the film and is also one of the producers, correct? He's a big reason why this was even made. They sent Chris a script. He was like, Demon Twink, I'm in, like, sounds like a blast already.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

When people hear the title Demon Twink, they might expect a fun, campy horror comedy, and it is absolutely that. But like so many of our favorites, there's a lot more going on beneath the surface. Today's guest is filmmaker Steven George, whose short film uses demons, deals with the devil, and plenty of horror fun to explore identity, aging, self-worth, and the search for real connection. It's exactly the kind of story we love talking about on horror heels. What neither of us expected was where the conversation would eventually lead. Steven is also an adoptee, and before long, Corey and Steven were talking about family, belonging, and the ways our life experiences shape the stories we tell. It became one of those conversations that perfectly bridges horror heels and our first podcast, Family Twist. Whether you're here for the horror, the filmmaking, or the deeper themes hiding underneath, I think you're gonna enjoy this one. Here's Corey with filmmaker Steven George.

Corey 1:16

Hello, Steven, welcome to the Horror Heels Podcast. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. So before we start talking about your groovy flick, just curious, how do you feel about our theory that horror movies and horror culture are good for our mental wellness ultimately?

SPEAKER_02 1:34

I'm very much of that philosophy myself, and that philosophy went into the making of this film too. So I'm excited to dive in deeper into that.

Corey 1:42

Give us the 10,000-foot view of the movie and where the concept came from and how you went from that to having this finished short film.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Demon Twink is about a depressed older gay man named Dante. This is set in the 90s, and we see him at Rock Bottom and make a deal with the devil to be young forever. But the catch is every full moon has to have a sacrifice be made in order to maintain his youth. But after 30 years, the fun kind of wears off and he meets someone, falls in love with them, and kind of has to choose between love and lust. I mean, it's the classic tale. I always want to get in horror. I always loved horror ever since I was a kid. It was kind of like a way to process my own emotions or just a way to host my emotions, I guess. And I always feel like horror was sort of the best vacuum to get alternative ideas across or alternative identities to be seen as well. When you're writing, you always try to think about budget a little, but with this, I really didn't, in the same terms of that with concept. I didn't really muddy anything. I kind of just wanted to write exactly what I wanted to see on the screen right now. And so this film represents everything that I would want to go to a movie theater and watch, basically. It's super clear, it's horror, it's camp, it's romance. I like when things have deeper meaning too, especially in horror. So it's not just death for the sake of death and shock for the sake of shock, but there's like a deeper meaning to it. So that was important to me. So it kind of just blended all of my influences together, all the filmmakers I love. It's just a big Frankenstein of things, all my loved films, and just all kind of together in one monster that is Demon Twink.

Corey 3:40

I love being able to like peel back the layers of an onion of a horror movie when it's not just a stirred up like not that slasher films can't have deeper reading to them. Some of them definitely do. There's some really disturbing ones, but yeah, I I love when you can have a conversation after watching a horror movie and really dig deeper. And that's definitely something that your film does. I love the look of the demon. How did that concept come up?

SPEAKER_02 4:02

The look of the demon kind of morphed throughout the production. In pre-production, when I was just thinking of the idea in general, I knew I wanted there to be like a kind of feminine demon character, because you don't really see that that often. And it kind of became the symbol of the film, everyone's favorite character. But the original inspiration was two different throughout watching. One was Ryuke from the anime Death Note, and then two was the character him from Powerpuff Girls. Yeah, it was kind of supposed to be like a blend between the two. So him is very like kind of gender non-conforming, mysterious, ethereal, alluring, and just like fabulous. And then Ryuke is just like extremely frightening looking, light side, just whispering in his ear. Those two concepts kind of morph together. From the start, I thought I wanted the demon to be way more horrific and frightening looking, but the actor that played the demon, Ben Cohen, was the only actor that I didn't actually audition. We just got a self-tape from him, and I just loved the energy they give naturally, and they kind of incorporate a bunch of like famous, queer coded kind of horror villains also in their performance naturally. So I kind of just went with what he was giving, and it kind of just became what it became, and it became something more camp than I imagined it would, but that kind of fit with the dialogue that was written already, like there was already some kind of like camp humor embedded into the demon character. So I kind of just followed that and went with it. And I'm definitely thinking since the next step for this project is the feature film, to go a different route with it, but still stay true to what it was in the short. I still think if we're calling it a gay horror film, a queer horror film, there should be a level of camp involved in it. So I do want to hold on to that, but I also think the demon could be way more frightening, but also fabulous. So that's how I'd kind of describe it overall.

Corey 6:11

Frightening but fabulous. So let's talk about casting for some of the other roles. What were you thinking about going into finding your leads?

SPEAKER_02 6:18

Casting, I actually mostly scoured IMDB Pro, and you could search, you could use a search function to search by sexual orientation. And so all the actors that you know make up the main cast actually all identify as queer or gay on their IMDB profile, which is really rare. Like not many people really do that because their agents and managers would be like, don't do that. You're not gonna get as much work. And also I wanted, since it's a queer story, the game's experience, that sort of lens, I wanted there to be like an air of authenticity to it. And to me, it was important to, at least for the main cast, because 99% of the cast in this film does identify as gay or queer, it was important to have some level of authenticity or some level of lived experience embedded into these performances because it is a story that our community faces. So to me, it was only right to have people from our actual community get to play these parts. So that's how we casted most of the main cast. The most difficult part about casting was probably the visual through line between Dante's character because we see three versions of them. I call I call them younger Dante, older Dante, and then Elder Dante. My idea to connect them all, I guess, was to make Dante Ginger. So Jonathan Tysor, very talented actor, he's been doing it since he was a kid, and he has this vibrant orange hair. So everything kind of stemmed from him, his look. Like as soon as I knew I wanted to cast him, everything kind of morphed and evolved from that. And then Silas Cade, who plays older Dante, actually, is one of the producer Olivia and Sevier, Safir's partner. We had to age them up a bit, actually, because they're a lot younger in real life than how we're trying to portray them in the short. And then Shuck, the man who played Elder Dante, he has a really beautiful story. I mean, the most difficult part about casting probably was casting the elder versions of Dante and Verge, wanting them to be as old as possible, or at least be able to sell that they're as old as possible. Chuck actually does identify as queer. He's been with his husband, who actually just passed recently, rest in peace to him for decades now, and they both kind of left their families, their straight families, for each other. They fell in love with each other later in life, and so he felt like this story himself in his own life. So he completely resonated with the story and gave a very authentic experience. And then Maurice Warfield, who we got to play Elder Verge, was the only cast member that does not identify as part of the community. Nonetheless, he is self-identified Christian, and he resonated with the story because in the end you defeat a demon. So that's actually what brought him into the project. Something like this was huge for us because I think his role was probably the most difficult to cast, because there's not a lot of older black men that are willing to play gay, and especially willing to embrace an older gay white man on camera. We got a lot of harsh rejections, but Maurice was our saving grace in terms of casting. So it all worked out. And to me, that's kind of the best scene in the end. You get all the payoff, and their embrace together is something you don't really see on screen ever. So to be able to create that was like the biggest present, you know, the biggest joy of this whole project, I think.

Corey 10:06

Well, and something that we don't even see very often these days in any genre, you know, we don't really see older queer couples, you know, in like a main role kind of situation. So kudos for doing that. We see a lot of stuff still on social media of like the generational bias. It's great that you've got kind of all aspects of what it's like to be aging in the gay community.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

And that was another important thing to touch on with the story was how there's gay men that feel like they weren't able to live out their youth because of how things were politically, or because AIDS was killing 90% of the friends around them and their community around them. So a lot of them had to go into hiding and then they couldn't come out until later in life and cuts you now. Now we have an entire generation of queer youth that are just running amok and don't know the history, they're not taught the history, their education fails them, they don't really put in the work and they kind of just reap the benefits that the elder generation paved before them.

Corey 11:08

Absolutely. What if Kendall and my first vacations? We had to visit the Stonewall because, you know, of the history. It's important to actually, when you're in that city, to be able to go and and be there and feel like what happened. And then we've got a nice piece of stonewall art that hangs on our this is gonna sound like the gayest thing we've probably heard today, but we have a drag-themed wall at our breakfast room. It's also we've got a nice like art print stonewall from you know that we got in San Francisco that's definitely, you know, like it's kind of the centerpiece of the drag wall. That's awesome. Yeah. So Chris Stanley, who has a huge social following, pops up in the film and is also one of the producers, correct? Yeah. He's a big reason why this was even made.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

How did you connect with Chris? In Los Angeles, it's all about connections. So I was leading a writer's group, and one of the writers was a friend of a friend, another gay man, and he just got off of uh producing his own uh gay romantic short film called Scraps, which is about two young guys in Montana who fall in love with each other, but also over their love of skateboarding. And Chris hopped on that marketing and all that using his influence because Chris is a skateboarder himself. And so when I was sending my group the script for Demon Twink, uh Matthew was like, Matthew Francis is his name, was like, oh, you should meet Chris because Chris is trying to get into more filmmaking and expand his horizons a bit. And so he connected us. I sent Chris the script. He was like, Demon Twink, I'm in, like, sounds like a blast already. He hopped on as a producer, and because of him, we're able to score a lot of the funding. So he's a big reason why this was able to be made exactly how I wanted it to be made, exactly how I always envisioned it in my head. Because much like I was saying earlier, when I write, I don't really think about budget. I just think about the best experience and the first idea, crazy idea that pops into my head, goes on the page, you know, without a carrying the world. So I'm forever thankful to him for setting this up pretty much and getting the vision a hundred percent come to life exactly how it was always envisioned. And he also killed it in the opening role. It's kind of like a psycho per you know performance. Right. Like he's the main star, and then you think it's really gonna be about this, you know, hot young guy, but then the tables turned and it turned into something you're not expecting, but by the end you're happy you experienced it. Right.

Corey 13:43

Yeah, he got the Drew Barrymore scream treatment. Exactly. I can totally relate to what you're saying about writing for budget because I've been a lifelong journalist, but when my college years and even a little bit after that, I was definitely still into fiction writing. And now that Kendall and I have been together for 21 years, and our other podcast is Family Twist, it's all about DNA discoveries, and so I've been working on some screenplay ideas related around that horror stuff related to DNA discovery and adoption. It's like I gotta think about budget. I'm like, no, just get it, get it off the page because you don't know. Even if it doesn't turn into a show or a movie, it could be a graphic novel, which you know there's no need to for a budget. You know, because you could do whatever you want. But it's it's a tough thing to do, like to, you know, to kind of put that out of your head and really be like, I want to get everything on the page exactly as I see it in my head, not thinking like, well, are we gonna save a nickel?

SPEAKER_02 14:35

And to me, when you're creating art, you really want it to come from a place of like non-judgment, pure like stream of consciousness. So I feel like that's always the best mentality to have when you're creating anything. Shoot for the stars and then take a few stars away if you have to.

Corey 14:52

Right. So as far as cast and crew goes, who are you hoping can still come on board for the future? That's a great question.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

I mean, with every feature, you think that you're supposed to cast like big stars or at least get one name to get people to really care about it, but I don't know if I'm of that philosophy anymore, especially with you know a movie like Obsession taking off. They weren't well-known actors before, but they obviously weren't A-listers. So definitely has me thinking about recasting. Person that comes to mind is probably Ben Cohen, who played the demon, because again, like the demon and his performance was like the anchor of the film totally and stylistically, too. Like, I think that character is what separates this uh as like a queer horror film, is again like a more feminized demon, which again you just don't really see that much. So yeah, definitely Ben. Everyone really killed it in their individual roles, and everyone acted as such a a beautiful ensemble. So I think we could all we could all do it over again in my mind, you know. But obviously, it all comes down to we don't know how the feature's gonna manifest yet. I have some ideas for some bigger names though. I won't say them here, but they're definitely cooking in my mind. We'll see if any come to fruition, but I'd love to give some some people their flowers that haven't had their their work appreciated in a while. This is very much a grassroots kind of movement. And in a lot of ways, the odds are stacked against us. And so a lot of people, I think, do look at us as like a sort of underdog, and they see something represented on screen that they never really see. So they want to support it, you know. And by proxy, they would support the actors as well. And especially the demon role, I think, could be cemented in horror history if we do it right.

Corey 16:43

Well, I can only imagine what's been going through your mind the last couple of months because you you mentioned Obsession, and we've seen, you know, low budget, some ultra low budget. I think Obsession is now probably one of the most profitable movies ever, and it's still going. What's been going through your mind seeing that like these indies, you know, with like you said, not A-list actors, are like killing franchises.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

It's amazing to see. But it's also a double-edged sword in my mind, and I kind of ping-pong back and forth all the time about this project, just because it's a fully queer centered story in a totally queer world with all queer characters. And we're just starting now to see stuff like that, like Leviticus also just came out, which, you know, two young queer leads, you know, theatrical release is amazing. That's historic for us, you know. Yeah. Because before it was just queer-coded stories, it was just the queer character, the queer storyline. But we're now just diving into the potential of like having stories about us and about more of our nuances. And that was a lot of the intention going into this as well. It's like when you make everything entirely queer and make it like coming from an authentic place, like made by queer people, depths of complexity, and it allows you to touch on some topics that we specifically deal with, phenomena within our own community that are never really touched on. They're never really used as like a mode of horror, especially. And there's so many horrors that we experience specifically. I mean, I can only speak to the gay male experience, but a lot of our horrors haven't really been explored and they're just now starting to be. And again, it's a double-edged sword because a lot of production companies and especially the studios would be like, okay, it's not gonna sell in China, it's not gonna sell in India. So, like, what's the point of giving it money? But I do think with a movie like Obsession being made for like 700,000, you know, to them it's probably worth the gamble, right? But it's always that like kind of catch 22 of it all, you know, where like when you make something for our own community, naturally, they're gonna feel like it's not for them. Or a lot of people that are queer and identify as queer, like not everyone sees it the same way we do. A lot of us are very hypercritical of our own stuff too. I personally support anything just because it's queer. Like, I'll watch anything if, you know, it's about us or made by us, just because I feel like I have a need to support that. If it's, you know, with a gay lead and it's about being gay. Just because I think we need to you pay with your dollar, right? And so to me, that's how I'm showing the industry that like I want more of this stuff and I want to support this stuff. It's definitely like in development right now. It's always on my mind that, like, oh, is this a little too over the top? Is this too sexual? That's queer characters in a straight world. And the difference with Demon Twink is that it's a can it's a completely queer world. You know, it's not about having to come out, or it's not about like kind of unrequited love, like one person's in the closet, one's not, you know, these sort of storylines we see all the time. It's deeper than that, and it's it's more queer than that. I kind of try to just hold the philosophy that it'll find its audience, and this short especially did. Like all the feedback has been amazing, and people people cry, people resonate with it, like people beg for the feature for this to be turned into a series. I've definitely been told by some, you know, pretty big people in Hollywood that, like, no, you shouldn't make something gay for your first movie. Make something more widely applicable, and then you can make your passion project. And so I'm kind of saying, screw that and just making my passion project first thing. There's definitely a lot of self-doubt that comes with that, but you uh you really just gotta hold the faith and know that it's this is really just a vehicle for people like you know, younger versions of myself to see themselves on screen. So to me, I think it's worth it.

Corey 20:52

I totally agree because what if you did go the other route and made something that was going to be more mainstream, whatever, and you didn't get another chance, you know, to do what your passion project. So yeah, I think doing that first, and I totally get what you're saying about a double-edged sword, but I think you've got an advantage in that the shirt is already out there. It's already made. I'm sure that there are from the tiniest production company to the major studios, everybody is looking to see like what could we nab now? We gotta strike while the irony is hot because they're looking at Obsession and Leviticus and movies like this that are like, okay, well, we got to get something going because we weren't we need to have something, you know, in the theater next year. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Leviticus came out in June, and also Stop That Train came out in June, which, you know, faced controversy for valid reasons, which is unfortunate. But I'm really hoping that they could solidify June as like a queer film theatrical release month, you know, and make that the month. And then it's like, all right, so now they need they need a queer film every single year or two to fill that slot in a perfect world.

Corey 21:52

So what are the biggest challenges right now, or what are the next steps toward getting to feature? Right now, uh just development.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Like I'm still writing it's the scripts in a Really good place right now. But when it comes to writing, like you could write forever. You could edit something forever until it's finally time to be like, all right, we just gotta make it, you know. So I'm constantly editing it, constantly, constantly looking at the comments and the reviews and seeing like, okay, what are people saying worked, what are people saying did not work, watching the short again and again just to see all the mistakes I made because I never really made anything this large of scale. This is like extremely high budget for a little old short. I'm really glad I made the short before the feature because I learned so many lessons doing this that will definitely be psyche before diving into the feature endeavor. It's really just like a lot of development right now because there's so many like tonal directions it could take. It's like the thing I'm always back and forth about is like how camp should this be versus how horror, like traditional horror should it be. So it's a lot of like big picture thinking involved with this, you know, and like at times I definitely face stagnation because of all that. Like it could be very paralyzing because again, the groundwork is not paved before me. Like we're doing something that hasn't really been done before. There's not really like a schematic for how to make this successful for real kind of writing the book from page one.

Corey 23:20

So let's rewind a little bit. You know, you had mentioned that filmmakers and movies and things like that helped inspire this project. What was young Steven's first exposure to horror?

SPEAKER_02 23:29

My first exposure to like something horrifying on scene what was in Kill Bill. The bride slices off Sophie's arm and then all the blood gushes out like a fire hydrant. And I was way too young to be watching that. And I just remember being like so scarred by that because it's so unnatural. I'm like, does that what is that what happens when your arm rips off, you know? Like, is that how much blood is inside of us?

Corey 23:55

I totally can relate to that. I mean, I wasn't too young when Kill Bill came out. And I'd say Kill Bill, the two movies together, my favorite Tarantino movies, and I've seen them a bunch of times. But I'm the same way, like, even though that was an over-the-top scene, I've always had this weird thing about amputation in in movies. And to see like what happens to Sophie and like just you know getting kicked down the hill, and you know, it just yeah. That was a disturbing. I mean, I mean it's of course I I watch it and love it, you know, and seeing all the you know, the geysers of blood and everything is great, but it's like, yeah, there's something about like surgical amputation movies, like sometimes I have to avoid it.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

Yeah. Well, you might not like one of my favorites, uh, American Mary, then. Have you heard about that one? Yes.

Corey 24:42

I love the Sosuka sisters. I have not been able to bring myself to watch it yet, just because I've read enough about them, like, I don't, I don't want, you know, like I don't need nightmares.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Yeah, so I'm concerned all of their other stuff. But they're like, I think it's worth it. I think it's so that movie's so well done in like a revenge plot sort of like way, like true, like truly feminist, you know, but kind of like you know, I'm not gonna spoil it off. But either way, you should check it out. Like, I just love I love that movie. I love the style of of that movie, love the tone of that movie to I'm sure I will.

Corey 25:15

I didn't know what was happening, but I did watch Found. Are you familiar with Found? I haven't seen Found yet. I won't ruin anything for you, but it's a you know, a serial killer story about a younger brother finding out his older brother is a serial killer, and that's all that's all I need to say. But if you get a chance to find it and watch it, I made the mistake of watching it as like midnight in a hotel room by myself after I spent the whole day at a horror convention. Because the last scene or the last thing you see in this movie will haunt you, or at least it does me.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

Besides that, like I can't really point to like a specific film, really. It's more so just like that's what I was into when I was a kid. I was always an adrenaline junkie, and so I just chased any form of adrenaline I could. I was really into roller coasters. That was like the only thing I ever expressed interest of when I was theme parks and all that, so I can ride the craziest rides possible. And I think that kind of transfers over to horror for sure. Like I love an experience, I love sitting back and being taken to an alternative land. I've always loved daydreaming, like I live in my head, I'm up in the clouds constantly. It's hard for me to like get in my body sometimes. You know, like I think and speak very esoterically, which sometimes is a hindrance to actually talking with people. Like I feel like I talk at circles. I like the adrenaline of it all is what I love, and I love personally giving people an experience, and that's why I love making films too. Like I love giving people a wild ride to talk about after, too. That's something also important to me. Is I want to make something that sticks in your mind, and that was also like why a lot of the images are the way they look in the short, because I wanted to create things that you know you couldn't unsee once you see them print that it really does like imprint like a piece of film into your brain for like weeks to come, and also something to talk about with your friends, you know. Um yeah, just thought I feel like also like being a a young gay man, gun well, young gay boy at that point, because I I always knew I was gay since I was little, and I feel like I hid a lot of those emotions when I was younger and hid a lot of myself until I was probably like 18. Like that's when I actually started. That's when it came out, and actually it came out of my shell, you know, but I always knew. And so I guess my form of self-preservation was to always hide away and like never express these emotions. So I feel like horror was always a place that I could feel emotions and not even just horror, like films in general. Like it it was, I guess, a form of escapism, but also there was something therapeutic about it and like cathartic, like empathizing with people you don't know and characters you don't know, and like falling into a world you've never seen before, and like learning and experience. Like, yes, it kind of was escapism, but also like it was a way, it was like a healthy place to like feel these really deep and dark emotions, you know, especially horror. Like, I feel like all the pain that feels like they can't really come out yet. That frustration can really manifest into like anger if you don't let it out. So I feel like it was a perfect vehicle to like express that and like let it out. So it didn't really eat away at me.

Corey 28:48

Something we haven't really talked about yet. And I know I mentioned the Family Twist podcast earlier, and you know, we started that to tell Kendall's story of being adopted as an infant and then finding his birth family, and then we've told dozens of other you know people's stories, and a lot of them you know are adoption stories. How has your adoption experience informed your filmmaking and how did it affect you growing up as far as like also knowing you were queer?

SPEAKER_02 29:17

So I was adopted from Russia when I was like six months or something, from an orphanage in a really run-down part of uh this area called Permcribe. And so I had no memory of it. And I was adopted by a like middle-class New York family, Italian family. And so I grew up with a big family and all that, and I looked like them. You know, they always told me I was adopted from the beginning, so I never really felt like ousted, I never really felt unloved or anything, but I feel like that always instilled within me to appreciate everything I have. Like my parents gave me an opportunity to like grow up with an amazing childhood, like full again, full of love and mostly full of opportunity. Like, you know, they wanted to make sure I got I graduated high school and went to college and all of that, the traditional boomer, you know, mentality of like go to school, go to college, get a job, sort of thing. But like they let me do anything I wanted and study anything I wanted, and always supported the weird little horror films I would make as a kid, too. Um, so forever thankful to them for that. But it's always just instilled like this energy of like I need to make the most out of the life I have, I guess, because I'm so lucky, and not everyone gets the same opportunities as I have. Like, I feel like I got the golden ticket with the life I have, and so I need to use it properly and do something bigger with my life and eventually give back, you know, like if I ever make a large sum of money, like my charity of choice is 100% um adoption agencies and anything in that sort of realm, you know. So I definitely want to pay it forward. I definitely want to adopt a kid of my own one day, but I mean, career comes first. Uh, I want to make sure I have an established career and a beautiful home before I even do that, you know. But it's definitely a big goal of mine, you know, motivates everything, you know, but also like on the other side, I feel like I do have emotions that are, I guess, like I don't know, confusing emotions that I don't know where come from. And I talked a lot of this with other adoptees, like and a lot of people I talk to that are adopted, we just have like anger issues, like we just have a bunch of feelings that we can't really describe where they come from. And, you know, I've been I learned that a lot of adoptees have trouble with like regulating their emotions, and that's something I struggle with every day, you know, and it's it's mostly an internal battle, but again, like I think that kind of coincided with growing up gay and not really being able to handle my own emotions, so just diving into watching films and escapism and alternate realities and daydreaming and kind of I'm not. Yeah, so kind of mixed in with everything.

Corey 32:11

Yeah, I don't know if you've heard the term primal wound before, but that's something that's talked about a lot in the adoptee world. And really for Kendall, because he always knew he was adopted too and had such a wonderful experience with his adoptive parents. It wasn't until we found his birth family that I think he started to understand this concept of primal wound, especially because his birth mother still refuses any contact. And that's been a really challenging part, you know, of this journey. Because we moved from California to New England to be around his birth family. I mean, pretty fast. Like we we met then in October, and this is his dad's side, and went to an oral convention with his brother and sister and two nephews that weekend, and on the plane ride home, I was like, well, I guess we're moving to New England. So because he's missed out on you know all this time with his family, but never he never would have thought that he would be denied, you know, a relationship with with his birth mother, and that's fortunately what's happened. Have you considered taking a DNA test just to see who might be out there?

SPEAKER_02 33:18

Um well, I've done uh an ancestry test just to see my own genetic makeup. Yeah. But no, I've never done anything to try to like connect myself to my birth family. It only listed a mother on the and she wrote a note saying that she already has like two or three other children, so she can't financially support me. But I would want to go back one day. I mean, right now it's definitely not correct politically, I feel like, to go to Russia. Um, I hope it dies down one day, so I feel like I could go. But I'd love to go see where my orphanage is from. And I would love to meet my mom and basically just think see her. Like, I kind of just want to go say thank you for, I guess, doing the right thing and putting me up for adoption. Because if I wasn't, I definitely wouldn't be able to live the life that I'm living now. And I I like know in my heart and soul that this is the life I am supposed to be living, you know, especially as a gay man. Like it wouldn't be the move to grow up in Russia, like definitely wouldn't have been as except as uh West Hollywood, California. Thankful to her.

Corey 34:25

Yeah, you'd be writing different kinds of horror movies for sure. Do you check your connections to see like is there anybody that's popped up that like a half sibling maybe, or is that not of interest?

SPEAKER_02 34:35

The most is like a fourth cousin or something that's popped up. So nothing too close, you know. But if something did, I mean I would a hundred percent reach out and be like, hey, what's up? Hop on a zoom or something. Yeah. But no, nothing really has before, but I would love to, you know, but it's it's really just not top of my mind. Yeah. Like my care I'm so career focused right now, and the top of my mind is making this film, I guess. And I'm also getting married to my boyfriend this year. So there's a lot going on. Yeah. So those are kind of the main priorities of my life right now. I feel defined by my adoption, and I'm very like vehement in my beliefs on how I think everyone should adopt. Um, there's so many kids in need, and we all know how like inevitable almost abuse is in the foster care system and the adoption system, and how many of those kids go missing or are abused. So I feel like it's my need to like raise awareness on that. I have some pretty strong beliefs about childbirth, and like, you know, I feel like maybe after having two kids, maybe you should adopt one. You know, like every two kids, maybe we should have to adopt a kid. Like, I personally don't think that's the craziest idea. You know, there's just so many kids in need. So yeah, I definitely have those sort of beliefs, you know. But yeah, I really just want to pay it forward.

Corey 35:57

Kendall and I were the same way, and we ultimately decided that, you know, this we were getting to the age of like, it wouldn't be right to, you know, to adopt a child at this point. But yeah, we've since become, you know, really involved in because of the podcast, some of these organizations. I'm on the the board of directors for this organization called Right to Know, which is all about support and education for adoptees and people with DNA surprises. And it's just but if you ever get to that point or you do end up with a discovery and have any questions or whatever, please you know reach out to us and Kendall and I would be happy to get on a call with you and and talk things through. I mean, there's like there's no right or wrong way to explore things, but I'll I'll tell you that you know, when Kendall got his results on ancestry and then found his brother immediately, which was great, and then his brother was able to help him find his birth mother's side of the family. And once Kendall found them on social media, like he just blew up their social media like immediately. Which, you know, I said maybe wait a day or something like that. No, he he just went, you know, all in not saying that's the right or wrong thing to do, but it's just you know, it's it it opened the Pandora's box. Let's put it that way.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

Well, it seems important to him to be able to connect with them. Yeah, yeah, you know, and like everyone has their own experience, so I feel like it's good to just honor that. Um my mom's actually adopted too. Oh, okay. And that's kind of why she always had the idea in her mind to adopt, um, since they couldn't actually have their own child, that would ended up being the reason. But yeah, her mother actually had her when she was like 13, and their parents had to give them up and then separated them. And then right around the time my mom was adopting me, she actually was reaching out to these, like, you know, right when the internet was first starting to be created, these like boards online that was, you know, kind of like a a call seeing if, like, hey, do you match this description of my mother? And then she found a match, and then her mother was basically trying to find the same thing, and so they found each other and then connected. And since then we always had three sides of the family because of that. Um, but it you know, it helped that like they were like two towns over, you know, like everyone's from New York. Um, so it was easy to connect like that and always just feel like we're fan. I've been super thankful for that too. Like how they reached out and how we had just more family. And they're still very much in our lives, you know, even more so than other family members, too. So it's definitely not something that you should discount, you know. Right. Like, no, but I mean, I also have some like ideas about family in general. Like, I feel like because I'm adopted something different to me. Like, I kind of treat family as like the people that are actually like in my life and like know about my life and like ask about my life, and you know, vice versa. And so, yeah, like I don't really treat everyone as family or look at everyone as like traditionally family as other people might, you know what I mean? Like, I just have a different definition of that.

Corey 39:09

There's some people in my family, in Kendall's family, that's like uh, and especially like politically, you know, we we we don't agree. And I think that's why, as queer people, you know, we're so inclined to have our chosen family as well. And that was actually the hardest thing about leaving the Bay Area was we had such a strong chosen family at that point. And it's like, oh boy, do we leave them behind and move toward the unknown? And I just felt like it was so like Kendall had this hole in his heart, you know, that needed to be filled. So you know, did we make the right decision? Who knows? You know, but but we're here and and still, you know, still doing it. So it's Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:47

You just gotta follow your heart, you know. And they're they're not gonna go away. Right. Right? Right. Like thankfully they're just a plane ride over. Yeah. And we can connect easily these days. You have to re I always think if the relationship matters, like you're gonna make it matter and keep up with it, you know.

Corey 40:03

Well, if you think your your brother would be open to coming on to with you to the Family Twist podcast, we'd love to have you on there. Yeah, that would be pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 40:12

I mean he's still alive. Yeah, that'd be interesting.

Corey 40:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:18

We haven't really talked about it much, but I mean the story is pretty amazing. Um, my mom also dealt with like before she adopted me, she adopted another kid like locally, and the mother like it was supposed to be closed, and then the mother came back into the picture and tried to get them back, and it was gonna be an issue, so she like fully got the baby and then had to give it back after like a week something, which is like really dramatic through her, you know.

Corey 40:46

Yeah, so but yeah, it's it'd be interesting to see both sides of everything. And happy to, you know, to tell people about the the film on the other podcast too, because of definitely we've been doing this that one for four years now, and we're uh top five percent globally on that podcast. So, you know, they're and we've got we've gotten horror guests from just the adoption podcast. It's just interesting how things sort of cross over, but they do say like one in every five people know someone who's adopted, and I think it's probably higher than that.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

Yeah. Yeah, right. And I do think there's a lot of adoptees in creative spaces too. Like, you know, I've definitely met a bunch working in production out in LA. One there is one instance like me and this girl just immediately connected on like an extremely deep level as soon as we found out we're adopted, and then yeah, it's just almost like understanding like what it is because it's almost what it does to you, but it's just something you just get together, you know. It's like we have the same demeanor, we have the same outlooks on life, we talk to people the same, we have the same sort of relationships, we deal with the same sort of things mentally. So yeah, so but maybe it is really just like, hey, like I'm so lucky to have this opportunity of life that I should really follow my dreams. Like I should do the craziest thing my mind, just because I want to.

Corey 42:09

So yeah, I I I think it just depends on what type of person you are. Like, you know, we you know moved halfway across the country once and then all the way across the country again, and and some people never leave where they're from. I think it just it just kind of comes down to like how, you know, what kind of chances you're willing to take. But yeah, it's that we explore the nature and nurture thing a lot on the other podcasts because it's really interesting to hear people's stories and you know, Kendall's too, like what they took away from their adoption parents adopted parents and what they inherited from their birth parents. It's it's wild stuff.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

I bet that would be interesting, especially now that Kendall's connected with both of them. Like they can really pinpoint each single behavior and see where it actually comes from. You know, that really does expose how it is like a blend of nurture and nature, you know, because even as I'm aging now, I'm like, I just turned 30, I'm like seeing certain things that my mom and dad do, and I'm like, oh god, I said I would never become them, but I can see it now. I know.

Corey 43:07

It's inevitable for sure. I know. So, Steven, the last question that we always ask on the podcast is who is your favorite final person? And we purposely say person instead of final girl, in a horror movie. The survivor. Favorite final person.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

Hmm. That's a really tough one. Now I'm like searching through the encyclopedia of every film I've ever watched. That just immediately jumped into your head? Not really. I mean because not every movie I like has like a singular survivor. Yeah. You know what I mean? I mean, uh, one of my favorite movies, because I do love Camp, is From Dust Till Dawn. Oh yeah. And I just think that has like the perfect ending of sorts, so maybe that. But no, I mean also like all the movies I love have like tragic endings too. Like there really isn't like a solo survivor at all, you know. I mean, honestly, if I have to pick one, probably Suspiria. Okay. The girl in the girl in Suspiria. Yeah. Like she gets me in crazy ballet. Comes out on top of like satanic uh ritual, which that is my biggest fear of all time, is like uh sacrificed. So the fact that she escaped that, like, that just gives me hope. So that's probably what I would say.

Corey 44:41

Yeah, for sure. So I'm guessing martyrs is not one of your favorites. Maybe not. Thank you so much for for coming on and doing this and sharing a Ruby with the world. And congratulations on you getting married this year, and congratulations on the short, and we'll be putting it out into all the good vibes out there to get the uh the future rolling.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

Yes, thank you, Corey, for the opportunity, and thanks for letting me yap on your podcast. And yeah, hopefully I can come on the other one too and dive deeper into adoption. Yeah. You know, but we love talking about Demon Twink. And yeah, thank you for supporting something like this. Like people's support, like it means all the world, and you're really the reason why the you know this feature's gonna happen.

Corey 45:23

So it's always been important to us to to you know help just get the word out about things that we're passionate about. And and you know, gay horror is definitely way, way up there. Whatever we can do to to continue to spread the word, we'll do it.

SPEAKER_02 45:39

Yes, we appreciate that. People like you are angels, so we won't forget to once it's finally manifested, it's yeah. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

One thing I love most about horror heels is that we never really know where the conversation's gonna end up. We started by talking about Demon Twink and Steven's love of horror, but we also explored adoption, chosen family, and the complicated emotions that could shape both our lives and our art. As an adoptee myself, those moments resonated. When you have a chance, seek out Demon Twink, free to watch on YouTube, and support independent filmmakers who are telling stories from perspectives we do not get to see nearly often enough. If our conversation about adoption caught your attention, I hope you'll also check out our sister podcast, Family Twist. Thanks as always for listening. And when someone asks, is horror good for mental wellness, you reply, but of course it is. The Horror Heals Podcast is produced by Mosaic Multimedia LLC.