2. If Loneliness is a Welcome Guest, then what?

In their first guest episode, Rev. Syd Yang welcomes Alli Simon—founder of Black Being in Inglewood, CA and a meditation, mindfulness, and yoga teacher—to discuss how loneliness can be approached as a place of wonder and a “returning home.” Inspired by Rumi’s poem “The Guest House,” they explore welcoming loneliness and other difficult emotions through spiritual practice. Alli shares how loneliness has been a companion to her while navigating major transitions, including a recent breakup and redefining home, all while being held by community at Black Being. They connect loneliness to disconnection and suffering, emphasize collective breath and witnessing with others, and consider loneliness as a mirror that can open joy, pleasure, and deeper connection.

• Loneliness as place of Wonder
• Loneliness through the lens of Attention, Wonder and Equanimity
• Disconnection and Systems of Harm, Disengagement As Conditioning
• Lessons from unlikely places (a cockroach)

Connect with Alli Simon and Black Being

About Alli: 

Allison “Alli” Simon (she/her) is from South LA and the Executive Director and Co-Founder of Black Being, a community-rooted wellbeing studio in Inglewood. With over 20 years in the nonprofit sector, her work centers on expanding access to meditation, movement, and collective care for Black communities.

Since 2009, meditation has been a grounding force in Alli’s life, supporting her through personal challenges and shaping her commitment to healing-centered work. She is a certified yoga instructor and meditation facilitator, and her approach is rooted in lived experience, cultural awareness, and community practice.

Through Black Being, Alli leads programs that support mental, physical, and emotional wellbeing, with a focus on creating accessible, culturally relevant spaces for rest, reflection, and connection. She also contributes to broader healing justice efforts through workshops and partnerships that support caregivers and social impact leaders.

Book a free spiritual care discovery call here

Connect with Syd:

Email: bluejaguarlove@gmail.com

Website: www.bluejaguarhealingarts.com

Read Syd’s Substack - Being in a Body: revsydyang.substack.com

Instagram: @bodyliberationchaplain

Buy Me A Boba Tea: Venmo @bluejaguarlove

Produced by Wowow Podcasts

Music by Lee Frisari

Transcript

Alli 0:00

When I think about how I define loneliness as a whole, it's neither good nor bad. It's neither right nor wrong. It's neither um up nor down. I think in this place of just wonder and exploration, um, loneliness is just it feels like a constant returning home.

Rev Syd 0:19

Welcome to the Dharma of Loneliness, a podcast where we reimagine the experience of loneliness as a sacred and welcome container that cradles the love and connection we long for. I'm your host, Rev Sidd, a Buddhist chaplain and spiritual counselor, and I invite you in as we examine this question. If your loneliness is something more than what you have been told, then what? Each month, I invite in a guest to explore a new assertion of what that something more might be. To play with the possibilities that touch at the heart of what it means to be human. We'll listen deeply and reflect courageously as we uncover the wisdom and perhaps the love that loneliness is longing to teach. Hi, Ali. Thank you so much for being here and agreeing to be the first guest on this podcast journey of the Dharma of Loneliness. And thank you for being willing to talk to me about loneliness and your experiences and practice with loneliness and um your willingness to be open and vulnerable and pull apart and tease apart what it means to, or what it is really, to be in a body with feelings and to live in this moment with feelings and um and to build together as we deepen our conversation. So I'm really excited you're here. And for the listeners, Ali Simon is our guest today and a dear, dear friend of mine who um I have been in practice with, in co-creation with, and co-dreaming with here in Los Angeles since maybe 2015? Something like that, yeah. Yeah, something like that. Over a decade. Yeah. Of doing well-being and healing spaces and liberation practice together. And um Allie is the founder of Black Being here in Englewood and is also a meditation and mindfulness teacher and yoga practitioner and teacher and incredible being who I just feel so lucky to get to share this life with. And Allie's bio will be in the show notes. You can read all the amazing things and wonderful things that she is up to and who she is. And um, I'm just really excited to start with Allie. How do you define loneliness?

Alli 3:21

Well, first, before I go into the question, because I that you just said a lot of amazing things about me, and I just I was just really grateful, you know. I'm grateful for um just this our our friendship and our um a co-partnership in this world and this work. So thank you so much. Um, and all the ways that you all the things that you do, how you show up, Sid. Um for those who don't know, Sid is just just a big-hearted, amazing human who just wants all of us to be free. So um, yeah, so it's it's so good to be here. And um I'll start off with that. Oh, and you know, such big questions, right? Like when you originally asked me to do this, I was like, the dharma of loneliness, perfect timing. I'm in the midst of so many transitions in my own life, and so loneliness has definitely been very present. Um, but it's been, you know, when I think about how I define loneliness as a whole, I've been kind of sitting with that question of you know, I think oftentimes we hear loneliness as this thing that's like, oh, it's uncomfortable, it's bad, or it's shouldn't be there. But I've actually been allowing loneliness to be this place of wonder in some way, I think, when I think about it. It's this wonder of it could be something that feels terrible in moments, and it could be something that feels extremely pleasurable in moments. Um, and it leads us to so many different things, whether it's to, you know, pick up a phone and call somebody that's dear to us over if it invites me to walk outside of my door and say hi to my neighbors and see the sun a little bit. So, yeah, so when I've been thinking about loneliness and since you told me that this would be my question, I've just been like, huh, okay. It's not it's neither good nor bad. It's neither right nor wrong, it's neither um up nor down. Um, it just is. And I'm I think in this place of just wonder and exploration. Um loneliness is just it feels like a constant returning home, you know? It feels like this reminder to come back to the side. I know there's so many reminders we have in this, but when I was really sitting with it, I'm like, oh, it's this reminder to come back to myself and find what it is that maybe is miss feel like it's missing or is needing a little bit more tenderness. So when I think about loneliness, that's that's kind of what I think about.

Rev Syd 6:18

Yeah, thank you. I love the what you just shared of a coming home. And um like there's yeah, I think oftentimes that question of what is home rises. It shows up for me every day. What is home? Where is home? Is home a thing? Um, what does it mean to be at home, especially in a body, in a body that is uh pathologized or marginalized in current systems? Um, but also in community, what is home? And I love what you're saying about loneliness as a coming home because it it ties so closely into the topic for today or the title for today's episode, which is if loneliness is a welcome guest, then what? Yeah. And that kind of contemplation on loneliness as a welcome guest, like a welcome guest into our own homes, right? Into our own spaces of sanctuary, into our own spaces of care, of kind of like that private, intimate, protected sphere. Um and that this idea of the welcome guest comes from a Rumi poem, which I know you're familiar with. It's the guest house. I'm sure many people listening are familiar with it, but I'm gonna read it. Um it's a short poem. So we have it here. So this is the guest house by Rumi. This being human is a guest house. Every morning, a new arrival, a joy, a depression, a meanness. Some momentary awareness comes as an unexpected visitor. Welcome and entertain them all. Even if they're a crowd of sorrows who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honorably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. The dark thought, the shame, the malice. Meet them at the door laughing and invite them in. Be grateful for whoever comes because each has been sent as a guide from beyond. I know. I feel like I need to start crying.

Alli 8:44

I'm already like I had to grab this issue already. I'm like, here we go, let's do this.

Rev Syd 8:51

Yeah. Um, when I first really started sitting with loneliness and like being on my cushion with this, the feeling, like the sensations in my body, the emotional feelings, the stories that were like swirling in my head around what is loneliness and the discomfort. Um I was, you know, thinking about like how to how do I be in practice with these feelings? It's so uncomfortable. And everything in me wanted to run away. Like the tendencies in my body to escape, my histories of eating disorders, of addiction, of self-harm are ways to like get out of the current experience that I'm having. And so I'm really good at that. And, you know, so much of my spiritual practice is the being with, being with others and being with myself. Right. And so this that practice of learning how to be with really came out of um when I first started my Dharma practice or Buddhist practice years ago was a Buddhist teacher, a Dharma teacher in Sangha, being like, okay, we're dealing with a lot of anger because we were talking about some, you know, stuff that was happening politically. And how do we be with anger? Just invite anger to be in the room with us. And I remember at the time, you know, I was a young organizer and I was like, the world is fucked up. Why have to fight against this? The outrage was so strong. And I'm like, no, anger, like, I can't just sit with it. I have to respond to it. I have to do something with it, right? I have to fix it, right? So it has to be leading me somewhere. And over time I realized what that the invitation was in that teaching was, no, just let it sit here with us. And so then I kind of like with loneliness, I was like, oh, this feels like a much more uncomfortable, like untenable emotion to welcome in. Anger and rage, I'm good with. Like I grew up with it, it's mine. Like I'm very familiar with it. I know what to do that's like we're here. Loneliness is the is one that I've always for years would push aside and and disavow. And so this idea of what if it's a welcome guest, and this poem came back to me over and over, just like Rumi's words of like, just say, hey, welcome. Let me offer you a cup of tea, let me make you a meal. And to think about what are those sacred practices that are rituals and a lot of our traditions and a lot of our families and communities and homes, right? Of, you know, for me, having a Buddhist altar in my own home is let me put like a bowl of fruit on the altar, right? Or sitting and having a cup of tea with my ancestors. And so what if I did that same thing with loneliness? Of here, let me pull up a cushion, sit with me as we sit here. I've made you a cup of tea. How are we gonna sit together? Maybe it will be in silence. Maybe it's not, maybe we'll like make some jokes together. But what does that feel like to have loneliness as a welcome guest? What are the practices that allowed me to stay with this guest? It wasn't just a home, like a house guest that's like, come here, and then I'm like, peace out, I've got things to do, I've got to go to work. You know, here's your key by. But like really just like stay with, like, let me cancel, cancel everything on my calendar so I can be with you. Um and so that practice of really getting to know loneliness as something and someone who's welcome in my own home. That loneliness is a part of sanctuary. Loneliness is a part of me feeling safe and at home and grounded and rooted. That in order to feel that security, that presence, that stillness, loneliness is required to be there with me. Right. And so that has that's where this comes from, right? And kind of how this poem really opened up so much for me in my practice. And I'm curious, like as we think about loneliness as a welcome guest, right? Like the well come home to loneliness. Loneliness is a part of your home. I'm curious, like how that is showing up for you in your practice.

Alli 13:38

Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. So, you know, it's it's so, I want to say it's so timely, this conversation right now, you know, and not just because loneliness is something that we all experience, which is it, which it is, yeah, but I think I'm thinking about it spiritually, I'm thinking about it in practice, and I'm actually right now holding the reality of of this same sort of loneliness in home in my personal life. Like it's very, very present right now. And so it's like being able to see how it all kind of plays in. Um, and I'll share. I'm I'm happy to share here too, in that, but I'm just recently going through um a pretty big breakup in in my home right now, just experiencing being in my home that was once shared home and it feeling so like lonely in moments, right? And like being in this place where the home is kind of like that place of safety and having moments of like, what is this safety and the security that you talk about? Um, and having to redefine that for myself and having to recome come, like kind of what I said earlier is that coming home. It's like coming home to my home again, not only physically in my body, but you know, but also spatially and just energetically as well. Like, what does it mean to bring all of it here? And of course, while that's happening, that sense of lonely, that sense of wonder that I talked about also has to actually be present. It's like, you know, and as you're reading Rumi's um uh Rumi, I would just I'm thinking about all of the ways that I've been practicing, welcoming the things that that that arise that come, the parts that knock on the door that are not as comforting, but also recognizing the beauty that has been arising, like all of these beautiful friends that have been pouring into my space and loving on me and also feeling held in this home as well as like a welcome guest in some way, too. So it's this it's this duality of being what is and what also isn't. Um, and that's been kind of the most interesting way of being with it. And I think also the practice, the practices that I've been leaning into have honestly have been kind of exactly the same is having this place where I feel I'm moving through this world of feeling so untethered and so opened and moments of where I used to, you know, reach for my partner of eight years to now being like trying to figure out where where am I orienting and then being held when I when I make my way to Black Being, to the actual physical studio, walking in a door and having an embrace of so many people, just like reminding me that like that there is a place of of comfort. So it's like loneliness has been just such um a mirror for what's available in some way, which you know, I never really thought of it like that before this. I I mean I've seen it as like, I don't think I've ever really taken a moment, I'll be honest, I've never really taken a moment to really think about what is loneliness um until you brought it to me. And then also I've been in the midst of like beginning to explore, like thinking about, huh, what is loneliness really outside of it just existing as this sense of like something sad or something bad. Like you say lonely to people, oh, they're like, oh shoot, you lonely. Like that's that's a bad thing. Um, but it's but it's but it's not, you know? Um, so that's how I've been practicing it right now of just letting things come and letting things go. I mean, that's that's you know, that's the Buddhist practice, that's the way anyway. That's the Dharma is let them let things come, let them go. And at the same time, in the comings and goings, it becomes so um beautiful to witness. Yeah, when we're actually paying attention on purpose in some way.

Rev Syd 18:05

Yeah. Paying attention on purpose and wonder, right? I love how you put those two together of that curiosity and presence, right? Like I'm here, I'm paying attention, and what else is here? What else might be here? Yeah. Um I I always like to think about um what am I not seeing?

Alli 18:30

Right.

Rev Syd 18:30

And, you know, for good or bad, I do that often in when I'm in conflict. What am I not seeing? What about what am I not seeing about myself? Right. And so I, you know, I can go down rabbit holes there, but I'm the same way. Oh, right. And, you know, within that is that like that, I think that uh what you're speaking to is that balance or that kind of equanimity of that of holding the both and of what else is here. Let me get curious, let me be in wonder, let me expand. Like, how do I be in the expansion? And at the same time, of this is what is. Let me be presence in in this moment and not need to change anything or fix anything or interpret anything, just let it let it just be and exist.

Alli 19:24

Let it just be.

Rev Syd 19:25

Yeah.

Alli 19:25

Otherwise, because otherwise, we all know. Well, we know that, you know, that's the dukkha, right? If we are not letting it be, then, you know, and I that's where my practice starts to come in, even more so, is the moment I do start to notice that loneliness exists, what am I doing with it? Am I now holding on to it, trying to like, you know, make it my identity? Am I trying to push it away and, you know, have aversion towards it and not wanting to see it, not wanting to be with it and pretending that it doesn't exist? Or am I allowing myself to say, oh, I'm feeling really lonely right now? Because, you know, and thinking about the four noble truths of knowing that the reality is that there is suffering. We are going to suffer. We are going to suffer through loneliness. We're going to suffer through a lot of things. And the the way of the way out is to recognize that there is a path out, that there is something we can do, which is accept the truth for what it is and accept things for what they are, which is this. I don't know if I can cuss on this thing, but yeah, cuss on this. This shit is lonely.

Rev Syd 20:27

This shit is lonely.

Alli 20:31

Yeah.

Rev Syd 20:32

Yeah. Yeah, we're not precious in that way. Please.

Speaker 20:35

All the words. I can get it. I can get it.

Rev Syd 20:39

Yeah. I it's, you know, I think about going back to the like where we're talking about kind of this metaphor of the house guest or the welcome guest. And I think about like experiences I've had in the past of um friends or people have come to stay. And I'm like, sure, come stay at my home. Like, I want to be have an open space. And then like chaos ensues because I'm like, It's always fun at the beginning. Why the hell is this person in my home? And because maybe they try, you know, like do things differently or like have a different sense of how they take up space with the objects, right? Or cleanness or doing their dishes or whatever it is. But like this idea of there's this unknown piece of like house guests upset like my routines or our systems, and like, can I allow like allow that to happen? Right. Yeah. With not just with grace, but with like joy. And like you like, absolutely come in and like stir up my home and my like routine. And when I think about like loneliness is that that that friend that's like, hey, can I come over? Like, I'm just in town. I didn't I didn't plan this, but like I'm gonna be here and it's like a crash. And um, I'm bringing three friends that I didn't tell you about. Um, and like and my dog. Right. So like come on in. And and like what is that? Like how it just like this like I don't know, loneliness is it's like a loneliness is a troublemaker in a way. Or like or like a trickster who like comes in and is like, I'm gonna mess this up and what are you gonna do with it? And like those feelings of like, oh, I have to now look at this feeling. It's like shining a light on, hey Sid, did you know that you're feeling disconnected over here or you disengaged over here or you've pulled away because of fear or because of shame or whatever this, whatever that reality is, you've set yourself apart. And like having like it's that guest that makes invites me, makes me, invites me to look at the ways that I have engaged in separation, or the ways that I turn to disconnection as a response to my own discomfort or my own suffering. And like and that's so antithetical or in opposition to what I believe. Like this what like disconnection is I would argue the core of suffering.

Alli 23:21

Right.

Rev Syd 23:22

When we're disconnected from self, from the earth, from others, from the dharma. That disconnection is what causes and feeds that suffering, right? And disconnection is why colonialism can like exist, why what is happening in the world politically can exist, what's happening economically can exist, why white supremacy has power is because of that forced disconnection with one's own self. And so to for loneliness to come in and be like, here's the mirror, like you said, like let me like put this mirror up. Do you see how you're perpetuating and engaging in these like cycles of disconnection and practices of I'm separate or I'm other than you?

Speaker 2 24:11

Yeah.

Rev Syd 24:11

Um it's uncomfortable.

Alli 24:14

Yeah, it is. I love that. Yeah, yeah. I was gonna say, I love what you're saying because even like as you're even saying this, like you've been speaking to my life this whole time. Like it's just I can't even tell you. Then you're talking about this house guest. I actually have a house guest right now, and like yesterday, you know, it's so beautiful though. But they you know, they definitely are a welcome, a welcome intruder, and it's been really beautiful. Uh, but having them over and then having then their friends came over yesterday, and it was just like a whole bunch of people that are in my home that I'm not necessarily used to, right? And I had to check myself of like, wait, this is good. You have, you know, this is good to have new energy, some new presence that you can actually sit with. And I had to check in with myself. I'm like, guess what? It's tomorrow, everybody's gonna be gone and you're gonna be back here again. So, what how can you allow yourself to actually really lean into what's here, what's available, enjoy your moment, enjoy the presence, allow yourself to have some beautiful laughter in this home. Um, and then tomorrow you'll be by yourself again and you'll need to reorient again. So, I you know, I love that you even said that because it was just like so perfectly sitting with like how I was feeling for a moment of like, ooh, I'm used to just kind of hiding in my little shell a little bit. And here's an opportunity to do something else and to also allow myself to be present to what's actually happening and not being in this place of disconnection because the more disconnected I am, the less disconnected I am here, the more I am disconnected from the outside world as well. So um, thank you for saying that.

Rev Syd 25:52

Oh, yeah, thank you for sharing that. I guess there's it's so um, yeah, it's so real and it's so palpable like in our bodies. Um as you're sharing, I can just like kind of the just feeling the ways that like all of this moves through our bodies, the anim, like how animated it gets us, but also the ways that as we talk about disconnection, both of us as we're talking, we're like recoiling back and like further back of like, oh, let me like pull away.

Alli 26:22

Yeah.

Rev Syd 26:23

And just how um conditioned we are as human beings within um capitalist systems, yeah. Choose disengagement as the first choice or as the unconscious choice, right? That there's a familiarity, a learned behavior within that. And um and within that, like in order for that to succeed, we have to push out all of this other stuff that is uncomfortable. Yeah. But also it pushes out the teachers, right? So like the things that are often uncomfortable, I find for myself, are the things I'm like, oh, maybe I should lean in a little further because that's a teacher for me. There's something in this that I can see as I start to engage with something else, I start to learn my edges more, or I start to learn my shapes more. Yeah. Like who I am in the world. Am I being who I want to be in the world? Am I being or being called to be in the world? Where am I out of alignment? And that's that piece. Like loneliness is like that house guest. It's like, oh, you think you're generous? Let me show you where you're not.

Alli 27:44

Let me show you where you're not. We've got some things to do. It's so funny that as we're sitting here talking, I have my tea right here, right? And you know how they have like the little quotes on the tea? Yeah. And it says, How strange that nature does not knock and yet does not intrude. Oh, damn. I know, right? And so as you were talking, I keep looking at it and watch it's Emily Dickinson. Yeah. Um, but but it says, How strange that nature does not knock and yet does not intrude. And so it had me thinking about this. I was like, okay, if I replace nature, which loneliness nature all about is like, if it's if it doesn't knock, but yet it doesn't also intrude. Like, what does that mean that it's actually happening in that moment? Is that mean that it's just sitting here as like a pastor? Almost kind of what you said, it's an it's that invitation, it's sitting with, it's being with, it's showing up at the doorstep, it's showing here what's present, what's there, not being forceful, not asking for more, not asking you to do anything, but really just being that friend in some way, um, and sitting with for with us for us to get really, really close and proximate to um to it. So I don't know, I just was thinking about that, um, of this not intruding, of not necessarily seeing loneliness as an intruder. And that's kind of how I I think even from this conversation and this exploration and wandering of of loneliness as a whole, I think that's where I want to start moving a little more closer to not seeing as not seeing it as an as loneliness as an intruder and any part of it. Of like, like you said, this welcome guest. It's something that's constantly there, that's constantly present. Um, and an invitation to notice what things about myself can be different, can be more loving, more caring, more generous. Um yeah. So I just thinking about that.

Rev Syd 29:48

Yeah. I love that. Not an intruder.

Alli 29:52

Yeah.

Rev Syd 29:53

Um, I was thinking in my practice this morning before we got um on this call and in this conversation. Um, I was thinking about like where in my life have I welcomed in like the guests that I don't want. And I was thinking about, well, what came to mind was years ago I used to live in New Orleans. And um I remember when I first moved there from I grew up in Southern California, moved to New Orleans for grad school. And this was my first time really living in the South. So I remember one night I was like walking on the sidewalk outside, and this huge cockroach like is in the sidewalk in front of me, like sitting in the sidewalk. And he's like, Are you gonna pass? And I was like, Okay, clearly you own the sidewalk. And I like walked, you know, walked around and walked into the street to like circumvent this cockroach. And I remember thinking to myself, oh my God, I just let a cockroach determine where I go, like a bug, right? Tell me where to go. And I was thinking about how in that moment I'm like, I'm new to this city, I'm new to this culture, I'm new to this environment. And I didn't feel like a welcome guest. I felt like an intruder, I felt like an interloper, I felt like like this outsider who's like looking in like that tourist of like, what's this, what's this, what's this? And like not knowing the like cultural norms of the space. And then this cockroach being like, Yeah, you are not welcome here. If you learn how to be with us, then absolutely this is your space, right? And so that wisdom of the cockroach, right? Of all beings.

Alli 31:39

With some other cockroaches.

Rev Syd 31:40

Right. Maybe that's like the next podcast. Is like, but from there, like it became this thing where like living in the south, like cockroaches are everywhere. Paul Meadowbugs, right? And I remember this other day, I was like coming home and I walked up onto my porch to go to my front door, and there were these two cockroaches flying around. And I they were mating, but they were like flying in front of my front door, and they're like, We're busy. And I was like, but I need to get inside, and they're like, No, you don't. And so I just like sat down on my porch and I was like, Okay, you're right, you're here. And it's like that that coexisting of like to be um not the intruder, right? Yeah, those cockroaches are being cockroaches. This is this is their world, right? I'm the intruder if I say go go be somewhere else. And um at the same time, they're like, Yeah, you're a part of this world too, but take a seat. Like, just wait. And so I think about I was thinking about that this morning of like loneliness, my relationship to loneliness, my relationship to cockroaches, where this wisdom is around like what does it mean to share space in this mutually respectful way? Yeah, where it's like, oh, loneliness is actually a part of the human experience. It's a part of being human, it's a part of being alive. It is not something that is other than who we are, right? And you know, if I think about how I engage with that idea of what is, where I have to also look at where am I trying to push out what is to make things the way I want it to be, right? I want it to be this, whereas it is this. So how do I change it? And I think so much of how I've been taught to fix or change or disavow my loneliness is the same way that we're like cockroaches aren't supposed to be here. I don't want to see you kill them, get rid of them, exterminate them, like live in places that are so like like sealed off that you never see a cockroach, right? And yet they're a part of the earth, right? They're like we're not going anywhere. Loneliness is I'm not going anywhere. So how do we be there, right? And so maybe, you know, cockroaches aren't always welcome guests inside our home, but can they be welcomed in our existence on this earth, our cohabitation as earthly beings, right? Yeah.

Alli 34:26

Yeah. Yeah. And it's actually making me think about well, out into like the more community aspect of like, you know, as we're talking about cockroaches and and loneliness as a whole, yeah, is like I think, and I see it so often when I'm at Black Being in the studio where so many people are experiencing loneliness right now and isolation and feeling so disconnected from them their self, uh not not only just other people, but only but themselves as well. Right. Um, that, you know, finding the space of community, of of being with other people, um, and not being pushed out or made to be different, um, has been such um uh a connection to like a connection to the self, right? And I think we have it in the name of what we call black being is black being, is this idea of being um as the most important thing is being here, being in existence, being with loneliness, being with joy, being with connection with one another. I think at this point in our world right now, I think that's the most important thing that we can do. And we're even in practice of connecting to loneliness is being with others, being in community in some way, so that we are not necessarily trying to avoid or push away, but we can also be really witnessed in that loneliness of like, uh, you are feeling this way. I hear you. And let me tell you about my loneliness, whatever it is, you know. Um, I think loneliness is I and you know, and even as we're talking about this more, it's just it's it's feeling like such a gift, really, because it's a gift to create deeper connection and to a gift, like you said, for those cockroaches to invite you to sit down on your doorstep and to and be present with whatever it is. It's a gift to really allow ourselves to even recognize that, to be redirected in some way to what's if as a cockroach is like, no, you're not going this way, to go in a different direction. So, like, I think as a whole, like this, like, you know, the more we embrace loneliness and the more we actually find our way into being with others in it to recognize and witness uh we find our own, we find our own way in some way, it feels like. Yeah.

Rev Syd 36:55

Yeah. It's I'm recently taking um, well, I took a class um with biocomalafe recently. And one of the things that bio talks about is this reframing of the word witness to withness, W-I-T-H-E-S. And I think about how powerful that is like that that we are that being with, right? Is, you know, as a chaplain, the core kind of like one of the core principles of spiritual care is being with and witnessing, right? And so as bio's teaching, like kind of bringing those together, I'm like, oh, they are the same thing, right? The witnessing and the being witness, or yeah, we're witnessing with each other. And so I hear that in like what you're talking about of like, what is that? How do we embody that more? How do we like breathe into that more? And as we like sit on our cushions, for those of us who have a sitting practice in that way, to think about, yeah, there's this, it's my individual body sitting here, but it's also the collective body that is that is sitting and breathing here together. And one of the things that I so deeply appreciate and love about Black being and being in the spaces of Black being is being able to sit with others in this space of I sit, I'm breathing, but the experience of the collective breath is so profound and so deeply full of care and deeply full of love. And I can feel that in this like really visceral way that you know I'll have to say I don't experience that in all group meditation spaces. Yeah, I don't. And to be able to, every single time I walk in the black being, every single time I sit with others and sit in community in that space, with you, with others in the space, that there's this yes, I am here and my breath is mine and more than mine at the same time. And that um that that is how I am learning to hold loneliness, yeah is that it's not I don't have to do this all on my own, like strong arming, like holding my breath, like fighting. It's the more I breathe collectively and like really am in that collective breath, um, the more space there is for loneliness to be one of those like beings that is breathing and sitting with me.

Alli 39:39

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I'm feeling so inspired right now. I started thinking about right now our we have our sangha that happens every Wednesday night. And like just our and we have Wednesday night, we have we have several nights of folks of sangas that people can sit at, but just the thinking about how often people come and sing that very thing of like, I didn't know what I wanted to do, or I felt really sad today. So I decided to come Sangha, and you know, and it's not just people feeling sad, but people feeling joy as well. But this wanting to share, um, like you said, that withness. Oh goodness, that's such a great, I'm definitely gonna be like realizing that now. That that witness of of so of everybody else in that space, breathing alongside them, being with with with them, um, and whatever is being held and experienced in the body. And I am, I think I know for myself, I'm definitely feeling the sense of wanting more of that, wanting more people to have that access to that experience. Because, like, we just said, it's like we live in a world right now with patriarchy and all of these things where we know that that disconnection is the thing that keeps fueling this thing. It's the it's the way that it is. That's why, that's why we're constantly seeing one they they want us to be on the phones. Who are the they don't know who the lads are, but they want us to be on the phone, they want us to be disconnected, they want us to be with without instead of being the withness of each other in some way. Um and I think this is this is our this is our way of actually doing that, is how do we bring people more and closer? And I think even what you're doing right now is having these conversations for people to even explore loneliness and have these conversations and hopefully that someone hears one of these and understands like, ah, I have been experiencing loneliness. And it's not a bad, terrible feeling that I that's there, but instead it's you know a welcome guest for me to now look at where I can go next, how can I actually move? How can I be with somebody else or even in a community space or um even just with what's arriving right now, the nature, the cockroaches that I might have in my backyard, whatever. Like, what is this, what is this invitation, what is this loneliness bringing as an invitation for me to uh wonder about next? Um, so I'm really hoping that people really, you know, myself is included, continues to see and recognize the beauty and and loneliness. And yeah, I don't know. I'm just really feeling really inspired by you said by even bringing this topic of conversation into the practice. When when you said loneliness, I will be honest, I I was still like, oh, this is a heavy topic. And anybody I mentioned it to, they're like, oh, loneliness, oh god. Um, but then now as we're here, I'm like, oh, there's just so much available in the loneliness. There's so much, yeah, there's just so much available in that loneliness. And, you know, and you know, as I've just as I mentioned, like having been in this complete transition of my life, just completely just going all over the place, it's been that loneliness that has brought me such joy, I think. You know, as I'm sitting here recognizing this just so much joy and so much pleasure, so much greatness that has been like, okay, you're lonely. And here's an opportunity to really look at all the things that were once one thing and now are something else. Yeah. Um, so yeah.

Rev Syd 43:39

Yeah.

Alli 43:40

I'm just gonna say that.

Rev Syd 43:41

Oh my god, I love that. And that's like very much like as I'm like imagining like the continuation of this podcast and like where it's going is really looking, you know, one of these episodes we will be looking at like what if loneliness is a joy practice? What if loneliness? Is an expression of joy, then what? Right. And or of pleasure. And really, I love that kind of you bring that up because it's this reimagining of like what told me that this is uncomfortable. Yeah. What told me that this is pain. Exactly. Like we have that space to reimagine what is. Right. Nothing is static. We're not prisoners or entrapped in a certain way of being. And I love that about the Dharma that there's always, it's more than always what we think it is. And always, right? And so I wanna, um I know we could, and knowing us, we can we can talk for hours and hours and hours and go down many different pathways and trailways, but I wanna kind of bring us to a close. And I'm gonna read the guest house again by Rumi as a way to um yeah. Close our space and our conversation in this moment. So here we go. The guest house by Rumi. This being human is a guest house. Every morning, a new arrival, a joy, a depression, a meanness. Some momentary awareness comes as an unexpected visitor. Welcome and entertain them all. Even if they're a crowd of sorrows who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honorably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. The dark thought, the shame, the malice. Meet them at the door laughing and invite them in. Be grateful for whoever comes because each has been sent as a guide from beyond. So thank you, Allie, so much for sitting with me. For saying yes to talking about loneliness. And for being such a dear friend and a dear Dharma sibling as we wander through this world, this lifetime, this work together.

Alli 46:09

Thank you so much for having me and even for bringing this conversation into existence for all of us as we're navigating so many things, this sense of loneliness as our dear friend in some way. So thank you. Thank you so much.

Rev Syd 46:27

Thank you. Thank you for joining me for this month's conversation. I hope it has offered you some space to slow down, to get curious, and to touch into the wonder and magnificence of all of who you are. Until next time, may you find the cadence of your longing and the wisdom of your heart as you meet your loneliness as a teacher, a friend, and when possible, a lover.