4. If Loneliness Reminds Us of Who We Are, Then What?

Rev Syd introduces longtime friend blake nemec—community health worker, somatic coach, writer, artist, and Buddhist/mindfulness practitioner—for a conversation about loneliness as a reminder of who we are and what follows from that. Anchored by a passage from Ethan Tapper’s 2024 book How to Love a Forest, the conversation explores loneliness as an elusive, non-fixed experience connected to spaciousness, pause, and observation. blake links loneliness to having basic needs met,  to accessing sensations beneath our cognitive knowing, and moving through nervous-system states. They discuss trust as embodied knowing, family conflict, anxiety, shame, and loneliness as a conduit to wisdom and clearer “yeses” and “nos,”

• Defining Loneliness as Space
• Loneliness, Fatigue and Rest
• Separation and Reconnection
• Embodied Trust 
• Spaciousness and Time

A context note from blake: Parts of the discussion (around time code 21:00) are about “spaciousness.” Emotional states can be understood within a Polyvagal Theory. This theory understands emotional responses connected to the body’s largest nerve, the Vagus nerve. Different emotional responses to stimuli, including trauma, are commonly known as “fight or flight” (Sympathetic) or “freeze” (Dorsal Vagal). This theory includes Ventral Vagal responses, which relates to connection, safety, or being able to orient to the environment. The discussion asked, ‘could understanding the state of loneliness (without reacting to it or fighting against it) be experienced within a Ventral Vagal state as the body is safe enough to acknowledge it?

About blake: 

blake nemec (he/they) is a somatic coach with over two decades in harm reduction, mutual aid and street medic community work. As a transgender and queer practitioner negotiating immunodysregulation and ADHD, his practices seek out hidden dignities, emergent safeties, and elements of belonging within an ongoing apocalypse. And, as the world is on fire, he is an accomplice to outrage, upset, and civil disobedience for all unprotected bodies. Writing, meditation, and wild-crafting herbalism have held him through trauma recovery; in turn, he offers guided meditation, generative writing exercises, and small-batch medicinal tinctures to clients.

Learn more about and connect with blake

Connect with Syd:

Book a free spiritual care discovery call with Rev Syd

Email: syd@bluejaguarhealingarts.com

Website: www.bluejaguarhealingarts.com

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Produced by Wowow Podcasts

Music by Lee Frisari

Transcript

rev syd 0:00

Trusting connection is trusting that my understanding of self is both larger and broader and maybe more amorphous than I think it is, or believe that it needs to be at times. Welcome to the Dharma of Loneliness, a podcast where we reimagine the experience of loneliness as a sacred and welcome container that cradles the love and connection we long for. I'm your host, Rev Sid, a Buddhist chaplain and spiritual counselor, and I invite you in as we examine this question. If your loneliness is something more than what you have been told, then what? Each month, I invite in a guest to explore a new assertion of what that something more might be. To play with the possibilities that touch at the heart of what it means to be human. We'll listen deeply and reflect courageously as we uncover the wisdom and perhaps the love that loneliness is longing to teach. I am really excited for today's conversation. I'm here with Blake Nemek, a dear friend of mine, somebody I have been in community with and shared community with for many, many years in many different places, in many different cities. And I'm really excited to have this conversation around if loneliness reminds us who we are, then what? Because Blake has been somebody to me that has often been an anchor in helping me understand myself better and helping me understand how I move through the world better and how to interact in more ethical and meaningful ways. And so Blake's presence in my life has helped me remind me who I am, just like loneliness, right? And so I'm really excited to have this conversation and that Blake is here. So let me introduce you to Blake Nemek. And Blake is a and has been a community health worker for the past two decades, is a somatic coach, a brilliant writer, an amazing artist. And we have been also in Buddhist practice and mindfulness practice for many years together. And I'm really excited to hear more about his practice and for all of us to really be in this conversation. So, Blake, thank you for being here.

blake nemec 2:47

Hi, yeah. Thank you for having me. Um God, this theme is exciting and it's been fun to think about it for the last since you invited me. Yeah. Because it's not it's not a clear answer. It's such a um elusive thing. Yeah. So thank you very much for yeah, having the conversation with me.

rev syd 3:19

Thank you. I love that this idea of loneliness as an elusive being. It is very elusive and it's sometimes it feels so fixed, right? And I think that's the that's what we're teasing apart or kind of like pulling apart in these conversations is if yeah, loneliness is not a fixed thing. Nothing is fixed. So then what where do we get to play within that nuance, maybe? Yeah.

blake 3:48

Absolutely.

rev syd 3:49

Yeah. So as we're starting, I wanted to kind of ground or anchor our conversation today with a passage. And this is a really short passage, and it's from the book How to Love a Forest by Ethan Tapper. And it came out in 2024, I believe. Um and it's a really beautiful memoir and conversation around our relationship to the natural world or our relationship to forests. It's more, it's much more than that. And trees. I love trees. We love trees.

blake 4:24

So trees.

rev syd 4:25

Yes. So I'm gonna read this passage and then we're just gonna dig in and see where this conversation takes us.

blake 4:32

Right.

rev syd 4:33

So here we go. I watch the cars travel the twin lanes of the highway, gone in five seconds. Inside each are people living complex lives, seeking happiness, purpose, and freedom. I wonder what this world would become if they could see just for five seconds that we are branches on the same tree, trees in the same forest. I wonder what this world would become if we realized that freedom does not belong to us, that it is borrowed from this living world, borrowed from those without freedom, borrowed from the world of the future. I wonder if we could learn to seek individual freedom within collective freedom, individual liberation within collective liberation, individual prosperity within collective prosperity. I imagine in this epoch of loneliness, what would happen if we reached toward freedom together? I know. I like every time every time I read it, I'm like starting to cry. It just there's like a rising in this yeah, that remembering of what would a world look like, or what could a world be experienced like if we remembered that togetherness, that connectedness. And and I think that that idea of connectedness, right? Of togetherness is so critical when we're talking about this idea of loneliness or alone or lonely or feeling disconnected. And I'm curious, Blake, what does loneliness mean to you?

blake 6:17

Yeah, I mean, the big thing that I when I've been thinking about it is the space. Because at first I was not sure if, you know, I've I thought collectively, what has loneliness been to me? What happens? When do I feel alone? And I finally could say a space where I can reflect and pause, and observation is available.

rev syd 6:49

Observation. What do you mean by that? Tell me more.

blake 6:52

Yeah. Well, I think that one has to be in a space where you have the basic things that you need. You know, you have the basic things that you need, and you have some kind of space in between life events or some kind of space before something where you realize that you're alone. Which this might seem really obvious, but I think one of the things that I've been thinking about a lot is with um ADHD and different um immunodisregulation, yeah, that I move in between um emotional regulation quickly, different states quickly, and that you know, window of tolerance that people talk about is you know where you can be curious, where you can observe, right, where you could notice, oh, I'm alone. Which it's not like I don't experience loneliness a lot, but I think I move through it quickly.

rev syd 8:05

Yeah.

blake 8:06

And part of that is just negotiating fatigue. And so sometimes I think when I'm experiencing loneliness, if I'm healthy enough to experience it and sit with it, the next thing is sleep.

rev syd 8:20

I love that.

blake 8:23

And then I'm asleep. Yeah. You know? Because it's like very connected to if I have rest or not, or my availability. Um, those are kind of like everyday ways that I'm that I experience loneliness. Um, so it's some kind of pause, some kind of awareness that, oh, I'm I'm alright enough to know that I'm alone. Or not just alone, but that I'm that I have some loneliness, that I have the spaciousness. I am observing that I could share it with somebody. But I'm not I could be sharing it with somebody, but I'm not sharing it with like I'm well enough to be like, oh, I have something to share, yeah, or I have a moment to share, and then I'm not. And sometimes that wellness is then followed by I'm exhausted.

rev syd 9:26

Yeah. It's really strange how close it is to exhaustion. As you're as you're sharing about this, like my I feel like there's so much in my body is like this opening up of like, oh, that's what that is, of like that experience of like that edge of acknowledging loneliness, kind of being with it, and then acknowledging fatigue or exhaustion. And I and it's how embodied that is, like the the body, the transitions of sensations, right, in the body.

blake 10:01

Exactly.

rev syd 10:02

And I think I've never connected those two before at that level. And wow, yeah, thank you. I guess this is a real life moment of like learning more. Yeah.

blake 10:15

Well, that's what I yeah, that's kind of what I've been sitting with since the invitation of why is it, why does it seem distant to me? Even though like I just had this experience, I'm I'm traveling right now, and I went to a queer club um in the last two weeks. I didn't really have an idea of what this club would be like. Um, and I I have gone to queer clubs in the past alone. And I yeah, it's just it's great. You know, it's definitely not like going to a queer uh straight club where I know going alone is probably going to be a horrible time, even if you were straight. Right. So, you know, a lot of times um in my life I've been able to go to a queer club and had a nice time. Um, and I, you know, there was a potential to meet somebody there, yeah uh meet a friend. And um I didn't meet him. He didn't show up. I wasn't super surprised. Um so I had all these moments of sitting. It was there was it was a pretty young crowd, and I had all these moments of sitting and experiencing different kinds of loneliness. Some of it was curious. I'm I'm having some loneliness, and I also having some cat moments where I'm like, this is all right.

rev syd 11:37

Yeah.

blake 11:38

Um, I'm lonely. No, this is this is fine. No, I'm actually lonely. Like, I could be talking to somebody. No, this is okay. Just kind of like going in and out, just like nearing parasympathetic, and then nearing um ventral vagal and just kind of moving in between the and and staying curious and just realizing that that it's short, that curious place where I have spaciousness, I am I have loneliness, it is okay, even though I could be sharing this space. I'm not. Oh, I'm exhausted. It's like maybe five minutes.

rev syd 12:22

Yeah. It's I'm debating whether I should tell the story because it's kind of embarrassing, but I'm gonna tell it because as you're sharing it, it's bringing this up. And so why not just go with what is arising? Because that's a dharma practice. Um so this was about, I wanna say I was in my late 20s, and I was, I think I was in San Diego visiting some friends, and two of my friends, two straight women, were like, We're going to this club. And I was like, Okay, cool. And so we went to this club, and it was a male strip club, like a Chippendales club, and I'd never been before. And my only experience with them is when I was in high school, somebody had showed me a picture of Chippendales dancers, and they're like, I'm so excited we get to go to this now. And and I remember thinking to myself, oh, that doesn't sound that interesting. They don't look that interesting to me. Maybe when I'm older, I'll be interested in these bodies, right? And so we go to this club, and I was bored. Like there was something about it and the hyper like heteronormativity of it and heterosexual desire that was um really exaggerated, felt really boring to me. And I remember sitting, like I found a little table in the back. I was sitting by myself. I was like, ah, I don't, I just feel awkward here. And I put my head down and I fell asleep in this club. And then I got kicked out because they're like, you can't sleep here. And as you're and as you're you're sharing, I'm realizing, oh, I was feeling so lonely and disconnected. Like I was the only one there that was like, I don't know if this is for me. Am I allowed to not want this or feel connected to this? Everybody else is having this like seemingly really boisterous, like really engaged time, like really having a lot of fun. And I think I've never really thought of it as that moment. I was like lonely and I went to sleep. And so it's like that these awareness is like to rethink, like in these spaces of so many people, right? Clubs, going to an event, being in a place where we're supposed to be in this collective energy. And these like noticings when we're in our bodies of like, oh no, I'm lonely. Maybe I need to go to sleep, or maybe I need to pull away. And this reminds me of something I was talking about with Sandra Kim, who is the guest on the previous episode. And we were talking about this idea of the imperative of separation, that when we sense loneliness, sometimes there's this imperative within us to separate or pull away or disengage. And when actually, what loneliness may be saying is like reconnect, what you're looking for is actually right in front of you or already there. And for me, I'm like noticing this pulling away within a large space where I'm not finding connection or resonance or relatability. And maybe in those cases, that loneliness was wise to say, fall asleep, then you'll get kicked out of this club and you can have the space that you're actually looking for elsewhere. Right. And so kind of finding like there's a wisdom in that. Maybe that separation there is, it's necessary at times.

blake 16:04

Yeah, the body knows, right? Right. Like for whatever reason, the body um allowed you to sleep. Like you were safe enough to sleep. You also weren't, you know, you it wasn't hot for you.

rev syd 16:18

No.

blake 16:19

It wasn't cold for you. Right. It was like it was so neutral, so flat for you that you could fall asleep. So that is so true.

rev syd 16:30

Yeah, flat is a good it was very neutral. I was very neutral. Yeah. I like that.

blake 16:36

Also, I'm thinking about this is like not exactly like related to this moment, but just in terms of spaces and and what we do with spaces. And when you read that passage, um, there's there's some guided meditation um that focuses on branches and the space between branches. Oh wow. Yeah, one of those before I've heard it in different ways. I've heard branches, I've heard um waves, the spaces in between waves, but it's giving some kind of guided meditation where you focus on the spaces. Yeah. You just keep on focusing on the spaces, and it drops you into a meditative state. So again, it's like, oh, the spaces, the spaces do something to kind of let our cognitive mind go away. Yeah. And to settle into like a spaciousness and a blurring of lines and just maybe allow our body to speak to us.

rev syd 17:45

Yeah. That's the space between branches is reminding me. There is a meditation that I do, is the space between breath and to focus on that that's actually where we touch into liberation is the space between because there is spaciousness between our breath, there's spaciousness between our thoughts, right? And so we're trained often to just focus on what are you thinking about? What is the thought? Where is it taking you? What's the wisdom? What's the insight? What's the magic, right? That is being concocted or being accessed, right, through a mindfulness practice practice. And yet there, if we listen, there like thoughts are not con continuous. They seem continuous, but they're not. There's breaking points, right? There is a, there's a pause, there is a break. And that's that's that place where I feel like I have agency in my practice to breathe a little slower and like to or exhale a little longer and to open up those spaces where it's everything is possible, right? It's that space of um all things exist at all times.

blake 19:07

Exactly. Um there's something really incredible. I mean, we're talking about loneliness, but the other other things that one can observe in in like a spaciousness, whether that's like um pain, different kinds of sensation that you can't really name.

rev syd 19:27

Yeah.

blake 19:28

Um whether that's like stickiness or um sweatiness or heat, you don't really know what that's about, but I feel like you have to have enough space, breath, to um track it.

rev syd 19:48

Yeah.

blake 19:49

Like there's something about loneliness that you can't track if the relationality is like together, it's working, it's giving you safety, dignity, belonging. There's not um probably as much space to be curious about. Yeah. And the the togetherness like has a lot of I guess trust. Like it's almost like if you think I keep on thinking about the branches. So if the in this passage, if like liberation can happen from these branches and their associations with with each other in space, or like there's a space between it, like uncontru unconditional trust um comes up. It's almost like, okay, yeah, there you're the branch, you're not next to me. You're also not going anywhere. It's like a different kind of liberation or togetherness that's that has a lot of unknownness because there is space.

rev syd 21:04

Yeah. I was just imagining this idea of like being a branch and noticing this other branch, say, off to my right, let's say a couple of feet away. And from the vantage point of being one branch to the other branch, I may think that we are separate beings, right? Oh, that's an entirely different tree over there. And yet we step back, you see the whole tree, right? You see the whole forest. It's not one tree or one forest. It is there's a connectedness, right? And that illusion of separation um can be really powerful and reinforce like, well, you're over there. So I have to focus on my whatever this is over here. I have to figure my stuff out, figure out who I am, care for myself, do all the things that I need because you're over there doing that for yourself. And yet. That liber the liberation experience, right? Or touching into freedom is realizing that we can have that experience and be a part of this collective. And um yeah, I love that passage for that reminder of like that it's not just the branch. It's the branch, the tree, the forest, the larger ecosystem, right? The planet, all the things.

blake 22:26

Yeah. It almost seems like it, you know, I don't really experience that. Like the the way that I experience that is um in an embodied way or in a sensation way. And then cognitively.

rev syd 22:40

Yeah.

blake 22:40

It's almost like I can't trust the cognitive experience. Maybe this is one thing, unfortunate thing that happens with age. You know, like cognitively, I would be like, oh yes, yes, yes, with all these cognitive things that you're saying.

rev syd 22:53

Yes.

blake 22:54

As a young person, and as somebody in my 50s, I would tell you all these reasons that that's not true. All these experiences of like, yes, but yes, but especially in the real world. But when I think I've experienced the most trust of the people in my life or communities or plants is when I've gone through a longer meditation retreat and I can sense that whether I trust it or not, that I have a I have a sensory way of experiencing that I can I can trust gravity, I can trust dirt, that actually the people in my life are really amazing, even if we don't talk anymore. I still love them, I know they love me. I have this like embodied sense of what you're talking about.

rev syd 23:49

Yeah. That trust, I really like that word as a as a piece of that experience and a piece of that um knowing. And it brings me to the Buddhist notion or the Dharma notion of no-self. And that I remember in a early on in my uh Buddhist studies or Dharma studies, sitting in a sangha and somebody giving a dharma talk and talking about the no-self and saying, like, I does not exist. I is not a real thing. The word is an illusion. Your idea of who you are is an illusion. And you know, I was in my early, my I think I was like in my mid-20s, and I was like, I know who I am, like this is who I am. And I was gonna, I'm gonna root down and I'm gonna fight you, right? Like of because of my attachment to identity at that time. Right. And I wasn't willing to give up this idea of like maybe the I is something more fluid or something more malleable or something more in constant evolution. And as we're talking, I'm thinking about this idea of trusting relationships, trusting connection, is trusting that my understanding of self is both larger and broader and maybe more amorphous than I think it is. And or believe that it needs to be at times. And this piece of what you were saying, of even just the naming of their connections that maybe you don't speak anymore, or maybe the time between conversations is longer and longer and longer. And yet the love, the care, the concern, um, the presence is still very real and alive. And I think about that often too, and how to trust that, because that's a part of knowing who I am, is knowing and trusting my connections and my this larger collective community body that I'm a part of.

blake 26:06

Right. When you when you're saying trust, how have you had an embodied experience of it? How have you, I mean, it's almost like how have you learned how to trust in an embodied way?

rev syd 26:22

Such a good question. I want to, I think I'll answer that specifically around my experience of anxiety, because that is anxiety and panic for me are is such an embodied experience. And um there's this, it's so interesting in my head. I'm like, okay, which way do I go? How vulnerable do I get here? So we're just gonna go. Um my father has dementia, and I have I don't have an active relationship with my father. I have a conscious and intentional separation in that relationship that I from my part, right? And so this was about eight years ago. I consciously separated. And in the past, because of my own experiences with my family and um the religious community that I was raised in, I have a lot of embodied trauma and embodied reactions that shows up in anxiet as anxiety. It shows up in panic attacks. Um, and that often shows up when I would have to engage or the idea of engaging or possibly seeing my parents or my family. Is that how it shows up in my body? And um I am choosing to go see him in a month because of the ways that his dementia is progressing. There's a part of me that's like, I can I can be there and hold my own wholeness, my own container. Um, and still the anxiety is showing up. And I was in a conversation, um, maybe a fight, if we want to call that conflict with my partner about this, because they're coming with me to visit my dad. And I was getting snippy and I was getting sharp. And there was this way that as we were in conversation, I could eventually reach this place where the way that they looked at me and sat with me, they didn't say anything, but there was this shift in my body of like, oh, maybe I this anxiety isn't necessary, or maybe this active, like sparkly prickliness that was like coursing through my body, through my arms, through what felt like through my blood veins, right? Maybe it can go do something else, like it can have another task to do. And it was this moment of just sitting on the couch and being like, oh, it can release, it can, it can transform. And I think that's that moment of like, oh, I can trust in a different way that I wasn't able to articulate in that moment as trust, but I could articulate it days later. But it was this like really felt experience of I've never been in a situation that engaged, but was around engaging with my parents where I could feel in my body something release and that spaciousness, that softening, that um opening. It's like letting something flow that has been stopped up for so long. It starts a little bit and it's like, oh, wait, I'm open. Like that there's an opening that like that blockage isn't here anymore. And then it's just like that gushing forth. Um yeah.

blake 30:20

Trust.

rev syd 30:20

Thank you.

blake 30:21

Yeah. No, absolutely. I'll I'll be vulnerable and share a different experience, but um one of, you know, kind of accessing embodied trust that made me more vulnerable, but worked. Um, my mom and brother visited me. Um this was about three years ago, I think. And it was talked about, it wasn't a surprise visit. There were parts of the visit that became a surprise once they were in my apartment. Yeah. And um things that I said um angered my brother. And so he got really angry, and I tried to de-escalate it and talk to him, and um it didn't work. So he he was stating, I'm going to leave, you know, we're going to leave. Um, and he also um deadnamed me and was saying other things that all of a sudden just kept escalating the situation.

rev syd 31:28

Yeah.

blake 31:29

And my mom and I left. I can't remember the details, but then there was a space between he said, we're leaving, and my mom and I went downstairs, and um there was a sp or a moment where I got curious, where and like I had a space, because initially I was when I was trying to de-escalate the situation, I kind of felt like I could just feel the heat in my body. I didn't feel safe, but I also could communicate. But I could, you know, it was definitely hot. And then once I was downstairs, my mom, I had this moment where I was like, I'm safe with her. I can communicate how how awful this feels, how sad I feel. And I let myself cry. Wow. And I and I didn't know in until that moment where I'm like, oh, I don't cry in for my mom. So I cried and then and then I told her how proud of myself that I was crying. I kind of became, she's not very nurturing, or in our relationship, um, the ways that I've needed nurturing, she hasn't, she hasn't filled that role. Um so I was crying, and then I was having this embodied respect for myself that I was able to be vulnerable. That's awesome. Telling myself what I wanted her to tell me, but that she wasn't telling me. But it was this very like, I wouldn't have ever thought that, yeah, I wouldn't have ever thought cognitively, like, oh, I alone with my mom, I'm now embodied enough where I can show her crying. I'm not, I don't have to be nervous that that's gonna invalidate my transness to her. Right. And I don't have to be nervous that she's going to gaslight me. I don't know what's going to happen, but I can just be really sad for this moment.

rev syd 33:43

And in her presence. And in her presence. Yeah. Wow, I can feel that. Wow. Thank you for sharing that.

blake 33:53

Yeah.

rev syd 33:55

Yeah. I that's that's a lot. And to also that I hear in a lot of what you're saying as you're sharing that, just this your breath softening, like into the body as you're sharing that story. And that's so much for me, I think, too, is the the sensation of my breath is such a teacher and such a kind of wisdom carrier in how I move through the world, how I move through relationships. And um, and as we're talking coming back to this, oh, I think we're still in it, but still coming back to the specifics of loneliness is that loneliness is a profoundly vulnerable place or experience. And in the body, I'm thinking now of like, I can, you know, we talked about like what is a sensation of trust. Thinking about the sensation of loneliness is my my breath gets really clogged, it gets really shallow, it gets really um almost like it it hides, like goes deeper into my chest of like, don't see me. Because if you see that I'm alone or lonely or abandoned or disconnected from, or nobody wants, wants me, then you have to see my shame. And that that has been like this profound place for me of like being able to look at those tender places in myself of like, oh, I don't want to look at that. And yet here you are. Like sitting with my loneliness shows me where the shame is. And and then that it's not real, that it there is an allusion to this idea that I'm a bad person or that I'm not worthy of love. And yet the shame holds that, but the loneliness shows me that. And so it brings me back to this place of wholeness of like I am not that, right? And so the loneliness is that reminder of though, there's something so much more.

blake 36:05

Yeah. Thanks for sharing that, just like that path, you know, that's so, you know, it's almost like a tube or like a tunnel.

rev syd 36:19

Yeah.

blake 36:20

In their spaciousness, and then and in, you know, going through the tunnel, you have all these realizations about your wholeness, even though going through the tunnel is you know, very uncomfortable, you have a space, you're curious, and then you get faced, or you know, I get faced with um other things that that is connected to.

rev syd 36:45

Yeah.

blake 36:46

Um yeah, which brings me back to in that, you know, window of tolerance, in that space where I feel safe enough to observe what's happening, that um it's connected to, you know, it's not right. Something's not right about the spaciousness. Like, this is not the way that time moves. Time moves kind of in a discordant way to me. I don't always feel that way, but when I have extended um emotional regulation, I do start to get nervous. Like, what am I doing? I should be doing something. Right. This is not it. Like it, I you know, it's almost like an arrival. I don't know if this is exactly what you're saying, but there's some kind of arrival while thinking about the spaciousness and should it be, should it not be?

rev syd 37:48

Yes.

blake 37:50

Um, is you know, instead of um their spaciousness, what else is happening, what what time is it in the, you know, in the world, as Grace Lee Boggs always asked. Um things like that that, you know, I just feel like it's so close to um if you were talking about Troll, maybe like a 10 card, like time for harvest, like you've reached to the 10 card, like you've gone through this journey, like it could be this space where it is um celebratory because it's spaciousness, like you one gets to contemplate it, and it's it's curious that it's it's so close to um criticizing it.

rev syd 38:47

Yeah, it's a fine line. One of the things that I'm really struck with, and I think in what for me is also feeding this kind of contemplativeness of like wanting to drop into a space of stillness or quiet, um is the moving from the cognitive to the felt to the um sensory parts of my body. Um is a slowing down and an intentional slowing down of time, of life, of my breath, of age, of this, you know, aging body, but it it can slow things down to a way that things become more in focus. Like I can see more that is in the landscape around me. And that includes sensations, feelings, stories, memories, recollections, as well as the objects, the other living beings that are in that space. And I'm really struck with how in that slowing down, that I'm sitting here trying to like, oh, okay, loneliness, where are you? And it's not present. And that doesn't mean it's gone. It means that it's at peace, perhaps. That it's in a place of like what we were talking about earlier of that neutrality. It's neither hot nor cold, it's in a place where it can be at rest. Um and that's really wild, and that's really cool.

blake 40:39

Yeah, it's almost like it has like loneliness has um some yeses to it. You know, like if you if one knows um what they want and what are the yeses, there's going to be no's.

rev syd 40:59

Yes.

blake 41:01

There's going to be no's. And I feel like when I'm more clear with uh my purpose and what I want and what I'm connected to, I can more easily say no. And then of course I do feel loneliness when I've uh said no to things or declined things or um resisted things. And that seems like that sweet side of loneliness where um I can acknowledge I've chosen this.

rev syd 41:33

Yeah.

blake 41:33

Now I'm still uncomfortable. But I I did I did choose this because the things that I want are not um showing up right now.

rev syd 41:45

Right. Yeah. And that there's there's like discomfort is also welcome.

blake 41:52

Yeah. I mean discomfort stuff or like somatic experiencing is the is the pearl. Stuff that like it gets our attention. It's what you know, a lot of people begin a somatic experiencing conversation with what is alive. Yeah. Typically, the the immediate stuff is, oh, I've got this itch, or I've got this pain, or I've got this numbing, and it's some kind of discomfort.

rev syd 42:19

Yeah.

blake 42:19

And then around that could be not as clear sensations. Around that could be a slidey thing, a rubbery thing, a bubbly thing. Um but it's it it's almost like the discomfort is the first thing that allows our attention to drop.

rev syd 42:44

Yeah.

blake 42:45

To give that some voice. Um and take us underneath the cognitive. Yeah.

rev syd 42:57

I like that. And I like that and thinking about that is the loneliness as that it's a conduit into more information, right? Yeah. Into more wisdom.

blake 43:12

Into more knowing. Yeah. It is almost like loneliness. Loneliness could be emotionally neutral. Yeah. Like sadness, you know, is is colder. Um anger is hotter. Yeah. Um, in terms of temperature, there's something about loneliness that feels like not clear temperature.

rev syd 43:47

Yeah. Maybe it's contextual or relational.

blake 43:50

Yeah, exactly.

rev syd 43:52

Yeah.

blake 43:53

Exactly. Which is a which is a another way that it's like it's It could come up, could come up in many different situations. It could be a fast sensation. It could be longer. It's not clearly identified unless you know one allows to sit with it.

rev syd 44:14

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the invitation in these conversations is to sit with the loneliness. In its different forms, it shape shifts, right? And can we recognize the different embodiments of our loneliness, the different messages that it's offering, the different lessons? Um, just like the Dharma doesn't show up for us in one shape, one form, one word, right? It's in our connectedness, in our conversations, in our the ways that we are in relationship with each other and with the trees. And so I'm gonna kind of pull us back in our conversation to the passage that I read in the book How to Love a Forest, as a way to kind of close down and come back to this idea of relationality to that which is more than who we are. So I'm gonna read it one more time. I watched the cars travel the twin lanes of the highway, gone in five seconds. Inside each are people living complex lives, seeking happiness, purpose, and freedom. I wonder what this world would become if they could see just for five seconds that we are branches on the same tree, trees in the same forest. I wonder what this world would become if we realized that freedom does not belong to us, that it is borrowed from this living world, borrowed from those without freedom, borrowed from the world of the future. I wonder if we could learn to seek individual freedom within collective freedom, individual liberation within collective liberation, individual prosperity within collective prosperity. I imagine in this epoch of loneliness, what would happen if we reach toward freedom together? Yes. All the yeses. Yes. Thank you, Blake, so much. Thank you so much. I so appreciate this opportunity to sit and be in and co-dream with you and be in practice always.

blake 46:35

Yeah, thank you.

rev syd 46:40

Thank you for joining me for this month's conversation. I hope it has offered you some space to slow down, to get curious, and to touch into the wonder and magnificence of all of who you are. Until next time, may you find the cadence of your longing and the wisdom of your heart as you meet your loneliness as a teacher, a friend, and when possible, a lover.