Don’t Touch My Hair: Black Hair, Boundaries, and Power at Work

Andrea Wormley, Kelli Moorer, and Melissa Benson discuss boundaries and cultural assumptions around Black hair after Kelli describes a stranger touching her boho braids in a restroom line without permission. They share similar incidents in corporate settings, including coworkers touching braids and asking “Is that your hair?”, and compare it to strangers touching a pregnant belly. The conversation explores how Eurocentric standards have shaped professionalism, why some choices feel strategic (including Michelle Obama’s decision not to wear braids in the White House), and how younger generations are shifting norms toward authenticity. They also talk about hair as expression and versatility, trendsetting, generational divides over what is “good hair,” protective styles for time and convenience, and humorous hair memories and mishaps like hot combs and relaxers gone wrong, ending with a reminder to ask—not touch.
00:00 Bathroom Hair Touching
01:28 Why People Touch Hair
03:49 Corporate Hair Politics
07:49 Power and Image Shifts
11:38 Versatility and Trends
12:44 Generational Hair Divide
15:32 Natural vs Weave Debate
19:04 Interview Hair Strategy
26:24 Protective Styles and Time
30:08 Hair Color Codes Talk
30:56 Hair Store Shopping Stories
32:06 Why Hair Feels Emotional
34:10 Hair Horror Stories
34:44 Hot Comb Memories
37:10 Sweat Ruins The Press
39:22 Relaxer Mishaps
42:23 Silk Press And Weather
43:29 What Is Good Hair
46:55 Locks And Natural Kids
48:13 Respect And Boundaries
49:47 Men And Hair Enhancements
52:55 Wrap Up And Subscribe

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

And now our naturalness is power.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

That's showing power. Somebody can walk into the room and look their natural, authentic self and still command power.

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Well, I would just say this. I don't care what culture you come from, what race you are. Be you. Embrace your uniqueness. Embrace the style that you want to wear. Um, all women were extensions. All women uh have different pieces and secrets to their hair. Just embrace who you are and love who you are, and don't hate on the other person.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Before you touch me, because touching my hair is touching me.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

So, Kelly, you were telling us that somebody touched you in the bathroom. First of all, I feel like that's assault. But anyway, what happened?

SPEAKER_01 1:20

So we're so we're we're talking about hair. That hair conversation we were just talking about. Okay. So I was at this establishment, and um we were waiting to use the restroom. And there was a lady that was standing right next to me, and that time I had boho braids. Okay, so they were long, you know, the colors and all that. And she begins to touch my hair. And you're I'm having an out-of-body experience. Like she hadn't said you know her? I don't know her. Oh, she didn't say hi. She didn't stand in the line with you. You just standing in line. Oh, and she's touching my hair. Oh, again, out-of-body experience. And I'm looking like so my mind is like, there's a lot of things I could be saying right now. Yeah, but I want to be polite, but that's not what's in my mind right now. And so I looked at her and said, What are you doing? Why are you touching me? Because touching my hair is touching me. Absolutely. You know, that you're invading my space. And she says, Oh, I'm so sorry. I just like your hair. And I says, You can like my hair, but you don't have to touch my hair. You have to ask me if you can touch my hair. Okay. So I'm, I was, I, I so why do people feel they have to they can like your hair, but they want to touch your hair? Uh-huh. I can like hair all day long, but I'm not gonna go and touch your hair without permission.

SPEAKER_03 2:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

So, as black women, why do people feel they have to touch her hair? And you you actually had a story about that too.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

Like somebody we were just sharing the same kind of story, but uh a millennial who's working in corporate America and she changes her hairstyle. She usually wears it uh straight, but then she said, Hey, I decided to get braids. I'm going on vacation, so I come back from vacation, I have these long braids in. And her coworker who just walked up to her and just started touching her hair, and then she said, Is that your hair? And then said, Is that your hair? The boldness of it all. Yes, yes, is that your hair? So why is it that people feel that they could just walk up and touch your hair if it's different, if it's not your usual?

SPEAKER_00 3:49

And is it appropriate? It's not appropriate. I I don't know if I can answer that, but I I I I I do feel like it is it's rude. It doesn't matter. It's rude. Uh I don't think people are just uh they have a lack of awareness. Um, they don't treat me like a novelty. You know? Okay. Um and I feel like that that, you know, you feel like it is you have a right to do that. Where what you know, why do you feel like you can come and just put your hands on me? Well, it's like I'm invisible. Yeah. Somebody we were talking about this earlier, and someone had mentioned it's like somebody walking up to you when you're pregnant, putting your hands on your belly, like, oh, like get your hands up.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Right. That's not cute, and it's not an arm.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Get your hands off of me. Like, uh, I mean, where's the permission?

SPEAKER_03 4:46

AI or you know, no, right, just an invasion of personal space and lack of respect in that sense, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Well, you and I were talking, um, working in corporate America or in those types of environments where it's interesting how our hair really matters in those spaces. Um, it's more acceptable to have a European hairstyle than it is to have our hairstyles that are from our roots.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

You know? And um, I do like the generation, our children's generation, because um they have taught me that it's okay to go back. Relaxers don't need to be. Be your authentic self, walk in it and claim it. And um, I know when I so prior to me leaving corporate America, I know they can always tell when I was going on vacation because my hair is in braids. Yeah. Okay. Wasn't quite um it it wasn't acceptable, but was not acceptable to wear braids. It was kind of that that hidden, you know, conversation, that hidden language. Yeah. And a couple of times what I decided to do is when I came back off vacation, is keep them in for another month. You know, because I wanted to see what was going to be said. Um, but it's always interesting. They want to touch your braids. Yeah. You know. Um, but I have enjoyed being out of that environment because now I can do anything I want to do with my hair, um, and not feel um uncomfortable or have to explain. Okay. Is that your hair? It is. Yeah. One way, one form of fashion. It is. How about it? It's my hair. It's my hair. It's my hair.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

So, okay, so hair is more than b than beauty. Oh, it's more than beauty. Statement. Uh, what we're talking about, it's really more than beauty. It's uh, it's you said a statement. Seems like something's political there too, though. Um, because you said, I'm glad that I'm out of that environment and I can wear my hair the way I want to. What does that mean? Does that mean that when you were in that environment there were things that were said, or you were treated differently because your hair, because you did you feel like did you ever experience, like, did you do it and then was experienced in in a different way? Yeah. Um, so that's my question. Like, is that has that been your experience, or what have you seen, or where's that coming from?

SPEAKER_03 7:27

Well, I know I I was watching a segment. Uh Michelle Obama was on a uh talk show and she was sharing how uh her her decision not to wear braids in the White House. And she decided she wasn't gonna wear braids until after she left the White House, and she said it was strategic. It was a strategic move because she did not want the focus to be on her hair because she was even sharing, like whether she wore heels, that was strategic. Everything she wore was strategic, and and and I'm just listening to that, and it's and like you're just saying, man, what are the things that we are doing just to get along and not bring attention to ourselves or um feeling as though we cannot be as uh powerful or represent who we are if I decide to change my hair tomorrow?

SPEAKER_02 8:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:30

What's the difference between me wearing braids and me uh getting a really shortcut?

SPEAKER_02 8:35

Right.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

Or me deciding to wear really long extensions, whether straight, braided, or whatever. Um, but it does tell you the climate in which we live and operate. Can we just switch it up and change it up without it making a statement, depending on what position we hold?

SPEAKER_01 8:55

Yeah, or being the only one at the table.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

I feel like that the image has been set though, and I feel like that's the issue. I mean, when you talked about people touching and all this kind of stuff, there's a power dynamic that's happening. Like there's an assumption that, you know, I can cross, it's okay for me to cross this boundary, and and you can tolerate it, you know. Um, but I but based on what you were saying, I hear like, you know, straight hair, this kind of look with the straight suit, maybe kind of skirt or whatever. This is the image of power, this is the image that demands a thing, but that's been set. And I see now, in my opinion, those things are shifting. Oh, it's right, it's being undone.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Yeah, absolutely. And now our naturalness is power.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

That's showing power. When somebody can walk into the room and look their natural, authentic self and still command power, that's because the image itself is being shown, right? In different ways in media, on TV, and the things that we see in the news and the whatever.

SPEAKER_03 10:08

And and I don't mean that you can't um because here's the thing, and I'm just gonna say it about us. Yes, it doesn't matter what hairstyle I wear when I walk in the room. It's just is oh, okay, okay, you own it. You own it. But I think sometimes because of that strength that we carry, we tend to, all right, let me just be status quo so I don't seem overpowering or I don't. I see that too. You know, you know what I'm saying? Because, but I think for instance, Viola Davis can walk on, can do any, whatever, whatever uh position or uh screen or whatever it is, she commands it. And there's nothing you can do about it, whether she is in curls or straight or makeup, no makeup, right, right. You know, so we we have to remember the power and the weight that we carry just being who we are, and sometimes we just kind of want to keep it subtle so that's not the entire focus. Right. Because if I walk in with an afro, by God, that's gonna be the whole, we can't even focus because that's that's the whole focus of the meeting is they're gonna want to. Oh my gosh, look at your hair.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Right. You know, right. So but it's uncommon. I I feel like if something walk if someone walked in with an uncommon, it didn't even have to be a fro, it could be somebody with there. We see people now with all sorts of colors in their hair.

SPEAKER_04 11:51

Oh yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

There was a time when that person could have came in and it's just like I can't even think. You you know, like, oh wait, what? What are we talking about? I feel I still feel like it's an image that has been even the vial Ola Davis, uh, it took a time for you to see the power that she has. Oh, yeah. She came, and this is who you got. Yes, but someone opened the door for her, yeah. And then here it is. And I feel like just I I like how you said there was a strategic um a chess move, so to speak. But now we see color in people's hair. If it hey, I wouldn't be surprised in the corporate place. You got you know, a subtle blue, you know, like you turn around like that's beautiful, you know. Whereas there was a time when that wasn't the case. I feel like hair is versatile. Absolutely. I feel like what we say, hair is your glory, the crown, the crown, and it's and I feel like we are blessed to be able to be so diverse.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

That's what I love. Okay, the versatility. I can just change it up, switch it up, and keep it moving, depending on how I'm feeling. How I'm feeling. Come on for the day.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

I'm gonna do this, uh yeah, you know. Um I'm gonna do braids or I'm gonna do weave, or I'm gonna cut just wear my natural. I'm gonna let it grow. Yeah, and then I'm gonna I'll cut it off.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Let it grow. But our hair is trendsetters, yes, for everyone else to want to follow suit uh and get the same styles and the same. So what used to be the weave, now everyone's doing weave. What was wigs, now everyone is doing wigs. What was braids, everyone is doing braids. So I I feel that we are trendsetters when it comes to our hair. Yes, because everybody else wants to implement that for their own lifestyle.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

Do you think that um that the question about black hair divides the people? That's a good question. In what way? Like um, okay, I'm gonna give you an example. I'm sitting in the car with my son. Man, if you don't go cut your hair, this is how it is. You know, my hair is nice. Look at that. I was like, your hair is unruly, mama. Y'all, that's you, that's how you think, you know. But this is, you know, I could put some suit on and some and tennis shoes, and I and people will accept what I have to say. No, I don't like it. You know, I'm like, I don't like it. And he's like, you know, but now I look at him now like my son is handsome. Look at him, you know. But it it's something that he's commanded and demanded. Yes, right. Yes, and he's still his very smart self. Yes, it's very suave self. And with his hair. Yeah. And now it's become who he is, and it's a beautiful and it's serious. But I think, yeah, at first there is a division, and and there it could be a closed-mindedness if you don't because that's how we grew up, though.

SPEAKER_03 15:19

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Is it generational generation? I think it's generational.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Time. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah. Because that their that generation, our kids' generation, is teaching us some things. Right. What we would think was unruly, or go get your hair cut and yada, yada, yada. Oh no, that's what they're doing now. And it's not about my hair, it's about everything else about me. So, regardless of what my hair looks like, you're still gonna take me serious. I'm still gonna walk in that door and command respect. And so I love it.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

I love it. Hair is my image, but hair is not my image. Right. At the same time. Right. At the same time. It's not who I really am.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

I mean, it's just my hair that you want to touch. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. Shut this restroom down.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

So, okay. So think about your experiences and think about just, you know, the kind of things that we've already talked about. What is one thing that people get wrong? One thing that you can think of that people get wrong about black hair. Again, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

Now you're laughing because I'm like a flood of things.

SPEAKER_03 16:38

Just pick one. Okay, please, whatever. Go ahead, go.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

You tell me yours, and I'm so we not too long ago, we had, well, some time ago, we had an episode uh for singles in order. This is hair for women. And, you know, and one of the questions was like, you know, what are you like? We were talking about lists and stuff. What do you like? And the conversation evolved to, you know, I like women to be natural, natural hair, and this, that, and the other, you know, and yeah, and all this weave and stuff is not necessary, you know. Um, and you know, and I was thinking the whole time, like, eh, really? I just feel like hair. Wait, first of all, you don't know if a person has alopecia. Is that what it's like? True, right? True. Put weave in. Right. Or um, you don't know what's going on. Or I may just, hair is like the clothes I'm gonna put on. Right. The fingernail polish color that I'm gonna put on. Yeah, I can put some con some colored contacts in in a minute, you know. I might go get my lash done. Okay. I might, you know, I might decide to put this kind of makeup on and I uh the hair like this looks good with this makeup, you know. I might want to wear these shoes with us and uh, but if I wear these shoes, I got to have long hair. So uh you know, but I'm still not loving right, exactly. It's still naturally me. Right, right. It's my expression, yeah, right? Hair. So the one thing I would say is hair for me is an expression of how I feel today. Right. Yeah. Exactly. What about y'all?

SPEAKER_03 18:27

Just going back to that conversation. For me, I wanted to see who these guys have dated, and I want to see what those women look like. Because it's easy to say, oh yeah, I want my woman to be your significant other to be all natural. Do you even know what that like really means? Because all natural can mean many different things. There is all natural in protective styles, there is all natural in whatever type of braid you get. So I I for me that conversation, like, I think there's still more that we can dive into with that conversation. Um and like you said, I hair is it's hair. It's an extension of yourself. You know? Yes. You know, it's it's like for me, it's like putting on a lash. It's just it's an enhancement. It doesn't take away anything from me, it doesn't add anything for me. It's just an extension of how I'm feeling that day. If I want to go straight, if I want to go curly, whatever it is, that's just how I'm feeling for the day. Um, that's just my thought on it.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

And I can go, I can be extra.

SPEAKER_03 19:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

I can be conservative, I can be a different me. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Switch it up. Switch it up. I can put a scarf on and twist it out and make it look like, you know. Yes. Yeah. Yes. I like that. One thing. You had one?

SPEAKER_01 20:07

No, I actually I agree with with Melissa on that one. Um I agree with Melissa on that one.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

What do you think would happen if you change if you stop changing your hair? And when I say you, just people society, uh stop changing your hair for other people. For other people? Yeah. Yes. You know, stop changing your hair for other people. Or what you imagine is, you know, well, I am going into this interview. Or I am about, let's just say, an interview. I'm going to an interview. You already let's talk about that. I'm going into an interview. Yeah. You're already thinking about what you need to wear, which also includes how you're gonna do your hair. Thoughts, what's what's running through your head? It depends on the job that I've got. Okay, so we're going to a corporate interview. Okay. If I'm going into the city. And you know that the interviewee is somebody that don't look like you. Yes. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

Well, again, well, I am going to, and this is the honest truth. This is a hairstyle that I would wear and have worn in corporate. So a war W-A-R? Like, no, like I have worn this hair. Oh, okay. Yeah. So it I wouldn't change who I am if I was gonna. I like my hair straight, I like it curly, I like it all different styles. Now, would I do the braids to a corporate interview? I probably wouldn't. And that's just my preference on what I would do. Um, for me, braids are more of um a relaxed look, and that would be married, me wearing jeans and braids. So for me, it doesn't correlate. Not that's that's me. I am not speaking for anyone. Else in the world. Let me make that very clear.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Put the handle out there.

SPEAKER_03 22:04

Come on. So I'm speaking for Melissa. That's just how I feel about things. Now, if I'm the interviewer, would I hold that against you? Absolutely not. That is your preference. That's what you chose to wear today, and that's the hairstyle you present it with. But for Melissa, if I'm showing up for a corporate interview, I am going to probably wear my usual hairstyles. I wear braids. When I do braids, I do micro braids because I still love curly hair. So that's my preference. Would I put on a suit? Absolutely. I wouldn't show up in jeans. I would not be uh in a relaxed environment. That's just my preference.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Yeah. And I'm just the opposite. Because I've worked in corporate America for so long, I like the freedom that I have now. And even if I was to go back and have an interview in corporate and I had braids, I'd still wear my braids. I may have it in a bun that looks more professional with a with braid uh style. I would still wear my suit. Yeah. You know, and I would still come to that interview um professionally. But my hair now um I feel is we don't have to question it anymore. I'm gonna walk in that room, whether I have curly hair, straight hair, um, boho, or even braids. Um, my hair is not defining who I am. Right. It doesn't define my experiences. Um, and so it's that hear her war uh when she walks into that room, I'm gonna own it. But um it's just I always feel amazed of the controversies and the comments about black women and their hair. And to me, it's more of a jealousy thing because what you say you don't like, then you come back and you do it. You do it, you try to manufacture it's very interesting. Yeah, always interesting for me.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

If I was going to an interview, it I like you, it depends on what I'm interviewing for, where I'm what I'm stepping into, and what I'm after. There it is. So, but I still feel like that even in itself is still my expression. I am going, like even every day, because of what I actually do, depending on the type of client I'm going to see, and I think that's the same thing. Depending on who I'm about to go entertain, yeah, I feel like anything we wear to include my hair, if I am going to what do I want to bring the focus on? Right. So if I'm about to step into the room and I don't need you, I don't need to be wearing a whole bunch of colors because I'm trying, because the focus is what's about to come out of my mouth or what I'm about to show you, or the things that we have to do. I don't, I need you to be focused on that and not on the colors or not on, you know, how big my hair is today, you know, or whatever. Right. Uh I really feel like it just really now. If I was going into an art fest, well, there it is. Watch it. Oh, it's about to be all the pocket that we about to do.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

I mean, like, Kai, come in here. What do you think now?

SPEAKER_01 25:34

But um, but it's generational. Because this is what we grew up, right? We grew up, again, with your hair being a certain way and how you look, even in in interviews. But but it's all strategic though.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

I still think it's strategic. And I'm very interviewed after, though. I I really feel like it still has to do with what do I want people to focus on. Um, if it was the norm, and it is becoming the norm, it's becoming now to not be the norm that it is the norm now, right? That I would probably be able to wear and feel comfortable wearing. Like you said your hairstyle here. Now, listen, back when mama, it probably wouldn't have mama probably wouldn't have worn that. But these days, you can go like that and it still be taken with a as a person with power, no matter who you're in front of, right? Exactly. Because it's so normal, they're looking past that and they're still focused on the answers that you're given based on what they're questioning you about.

SPEAKER_03 26:41

And think about mom and them. When you say mom. Mom and them. Mama. It was either what was those hairstyles then? It was either the bun that was tight and flipped, you know, to press and curl. Right, or press and curl, very tight curls. So we've changed, we've evolved, hairstyles have evolved, and and as we continue to evolve, the whole conversation around braids, that's some it's not even gonna matter anymore. It's not gonna matter anymore. Because we have evolved past that. Right. Uh, we like I said, you have so many people in positions of influence that are teaching us and showing us, guys, it's just how I'm feeling today. Right. Don't make it more than what it is.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Yeah, yeah. I agree. If you okay, so this is to Melissa, because I know what Melissa does everything. If you wore your natural hair for a whole month, how do you think that that would affect the environment you were in?

SPEAKER_03 27:47

First of all, I would never be able to get in. I okay, I already have a problem with time, so I'm gonna say it.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

Okay, we can bleep that out, bleep that out, bleak that out. Yeah, yeah. No, no. But but I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_03 28:03

I know what you mean. I had to do something with my natural hair every day. I'm gonna tell you something. I there was a time that I did wear the neat bob, but do you know how much time that took for me to do the knee bob every morning? That is flat ironing, that is spritzing, spraying. I can't. I cannot.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

So that cannot. Or or the that really quick, I just want to say that's one thing, because the other question was what's one thing that people don't know about? Oh yeah, yeah, oh my god. It's a major reason why there are protective hair staff because I can roll over, get up, and go. I don't have to be in the bathroom for two hours trying to get this thing to look right here. And my husband's like, when are we leaving?

SPEAKER_01 29:02

You know, I'm so I used to get relaxers every I have thick hair, thick, long, thick hair. And many of my friends, y'all, y'all, y'all know y'all seen my hair. It's long and it's thick. I love it though, but it would take me hours to do my hair, especially when you sweat at night.

SPEAKER_04 29:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

And you got to get that hair looking somewhat presentable. And I I do not want to spend that much time on my nooks and on my hair. So I like the protective styles. Yeah. You know, I got these long braids underneath this, you know, long braids. We're wrapping it around a couple of times, but I would prefer to focus on other things personally than my hair.

SPEAKER_03 29:48

And I love like the sister lock. I love it all. I love it all. But I don't want to stay with the same hairstyle. And I know there's so much more you can do with it now. And I see different people doing, but I the same hairstyle every day, I wouldn't want to do that or for that long time, you know. But I see people doing all kinds of things, just again, not my preference. Yeah, I want to be able to, that's why I like the protective styles because you can just you work on it, you can go, you can go, wash, rinse it, and go.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

And go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, and it depends on uh, you know, the texture of your hair and all that kind of stuff. Um, some people just, as they say, wash and go. Oh, wash and go. It's nice. I think for me, it's just easier to keep my hair short and when I I will grow it out, but it's easier for me to just put if I I'm like, ooh, I want some long hair. I'll just go sew some and it'll be done, right? Do what you want to do. But for the most part, this is the style that's easiest for me. Um, and I feel like I it it complements what I'm trying to do, you know, the different things that we're trying to do. But what I will do is go and get some color.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Yes, you will. Yes, you will. See blue next week. Or pink. Or pink. Or pink. Yes. Black one. Yeah. Blue.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

But even that is versatile.

SPEAKER_03 31:20

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I'm a creature of habit. I am just that black, black in it, black, black, black. It's what I like. It's all about me. Your preference. What do you like? And what do you feel the best is?

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Wait, wait, wait, wait. When you said black, but you mean the color.

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Her color. One. One and that is funny. We did the shop the other day, my daughter and I. We went to the chair shop.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

And we're just like, wait a minute. Oh, wait a minute. Okay, okay, we want this kind. Oh, let's look over here, you know. Oh, we want this kind right here. Okay. And then what color? What'd you say? 24? Let me see if I can find a 24. We're moving out of bed. 24. Wait, I need 100% human. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

Oh, that's good. Why do we need human? Because I need that to curl the road. Do I?

SPEAKER_03 32:42

And when it gets wet, it's just wrong. What way? What do I need?

SPEAKER_02 32:49

Okay, wait. But when it gets old, you get the roll. So you can have fun with it. I think it's sad. Take that out.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

I'm mad at it.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

Too funny, too funny. Man. So thinking about um, I wonder why, because I think earlier you mentioned when we were kind of talking about this uh before starting to record, you mentioned that you said, I don't want to offend anyone because hair um can go into a particular place. So hair can cause people to be it. Why is hair so emotional?

SPEAKER_03 33:45

Well, and I for me it's it means different things to different people. Um, and I don't think you can put people in a box to say all black women feel this way about her hair or their hair. Right. You can't. It it means something totally different to every person, and it's about your lived experiences, it's about your exposure, it is about your history. What does it mean for you? Um, so I that's what I mean. I don't want, if I just say my hair is just a complement of my outfit for the day and how I'm feeling for the day or whether I'm going on vacation or not, I don't want to offend someone who says, no, my hair connects me back to my heritage, and I do this, and it means power, it means all of these things. I honor all of that. Yeah, all of that, and we're all connected to that in some way. Yeah, but our passion for it can be different. And I don't take anything for the one who is extremely passionate or the one who is more leisurely with it. More conservative. Yeah, so that that's what I mean when I say I don't want to offend anyone because we all have our right on what we believe in and what it means and what it values, and what that value is to us. Oh, that's good, Melissa. That is really good.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Yeah. Y'all I met someone the other day, and she was telling us that uh she had dreads she had dreaded her hair some years ago, and the lady who dreaded her hair put super glue, super glue, super glue to hold them together, to hold them together, and it matted everything. She had to cut everything off. Yeah. Hairstyle blues. That's a whole nother episode.

SPEAKER_03 35:49

That is a whole nother episode, man.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Grandma. So let me tell y'all, when I think about hair care and because one of the things that I struggled with uh just growing up with my hair is just um growing it out. I that's one thing that I I never was able to do was just grow. I would look at other people and be jealous when I was younger, like, I wish my hair could flow like that and be long, you know, it would only get to a certain length and that's it, right? Um, however, when my grandmother was taking care of my hair when I was young, it was down my back. So I don't know what to this day what she was doing, but what I do remember is that hot comb. Ooh.

SPEAKER_02 36:31

We are BTSD just walked in the building. The four chair, oh man, protect them ears. Coming in the comb on the stove and you smoke.

SPEAKER_03 36:54

The smoke coming out the comb for me. You see it coming.

SPEAKER_02 36:59

Oh man, it has the back of that. And your hand gets sweaty. You already know what's about to happen.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

And the minute you get hit with that iron, oh man, yes, man.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

And and and doing those edges and just doing this, you're like, oh my God. And you're getting pricklies under your arm.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

Oh my gosh, y'all. I remember that English yesterday. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:31

I can still like the smell. I can still like the sending of hair. Like, oh my God, I can just take the grease and the grease. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

And the grease.

SPEAKER_03 37:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

You touch, ah, you burn me. The hair ain't the the comb is not even close to you. Well, something burn me. Her name. That grandmother was Mama Lorise. We called her Mama Lorise. Mama Lorise, burn me. Peace to help me see. Oh my gosh, y'all. And then you had to make sure that you don't sweat. Don't you go, don't you run? Don't, you know, all that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 38:12

Just sit and look pretty.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

Don't you move?

SPEAKER_03 38:15

Because that hair was gonna go back. It was going. It was going.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

It would go back. So y'all, so uh one one um I was one time I had pressed Kaya's hair. Um so pressed her hair and this no no no. I had paid somebody to press her hair. So her hair was all nice, as you know, and everything. Y'all. My husband got Kaya in the back seat. He don't turn no AC on. Just sweating. Then the windows down. By the time she got to the house, it was like she ain't been nowhere.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

Nothing. Just walked up again. Like, what? I was so upset.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

Like, babe, whenever you from this point on, if you have females in your vehicle, turn that. We're not gonna roll down the window.

SPEAKER_02 39:20

Oh man, I'm a black video spent for that.

SPEAKER_03 39:23

I'm dying laughing because I'm thinking about those uh little clips where they say, This is how I sent my child.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

Yeah, yeah. Oh man, that's so funny. The school photos did my child. This is how they came home. My child came home after the school photos.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

Yeah, oh my goodness. Listen, um, this um school that the kids used to go to, uh, all the girls, um, so we were we were living in Atlanta, right outside of Atlanta. So um all the girls, they had little um uh hair wraps for them when they would go outside and play, right? So that when they came home, they would still look a little decent, right? But I used to always say, Whoo, I am getting my money's worth. Because when you would come home, like everything just tow up. You get stains all on your clothes, you can't stay all. Hey, I'm glad you had a good time in school today.

SPEAKER_03 40:29

There you go. You enjoyed yourself. What about relaxer stories? Anybody got relaxer stories?

SPEAKER_00 40:36

I do. What's your story?

SPEAKER_03 40:40

Have you ever left it in too long? I uh okay. So my story is I was like, oh yeah, I'm usually I would go to the hairdresser and get my hair primer. I'm like, I'm gonna do this myself. I'm saving this money. I'm putting it in, and then I decide I put it in. I decide I'm gonna clean and vacuum. So I'm just vacuuming. While you wait for it to relax. Yes, I'm just vacuuming and just going. I was like, oh, let me go take this stuff out. It's not even burning. Turn on the water. Oh, no. And I put my hair underneath the water. Clunks of just hair just oh no.

SPEAKER_02 41:24

Oh no. I know that's right.

SPEAKER_03 41:33

Oh wow. You can't leave it in too long. So what did you do? You just I rinsed it out and uh rinsed it out and got it out as much as I could and cried. That's all you can do. The hair's gone. I had like a little patch right here that was absolutely it was gone. It was gone. It took a while to come back to.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

Oh so did you trim your hair? You just did something to cover it? Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 41:58

I did look, we had the nice comb over it. Okay, look, and you couldn't even tell. Oh man. Well, I had to get it.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

Can't leave it in too long. You know, I had a sensitive scalp, and so I had to make sure that I did not scratch before the relaxer. So, what does this mean?

SPEAKER_03 42:14

Oh, that means it's time to take it out.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Let's go. I mean a renewal, or you don't scratch your head. So when you have an itch, this is what you do. This is what you do. So I had to learn that one because learn that the hard way because I would go waste my money because the relaxer couldn't stand long enough because my my scalp was uh sensitive. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:35

But I'm thinking when you did this, because that means a lot of different things.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

I'm trying to scratch. Uh nigga, it's a renewable.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

This is uh uh get it out, get it out.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

No uh probably I would say the same thing as as Melissa's, but I because my hair is a thinner grade, uh, I never kept it in long. I was always afraid that it didn't even need a relaxer. Well, now I because I could put a relaxer in and then one year, actually. Yeah, yeah. Just one of those.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

Oh no. She's one of them.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

Mine was carrying four weeks.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

I thought she was like, oh, but she looks good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

You know, it was only the new growth. But but I I would do relaxers and then I would do six weeks later, I would get my my hair highlighted.

SPEAKER_03 43:26

Oh, okay, right. Yeah, yeah, I didn't do the highlights. Oh, I I did. Oh, I loved it. I loved it.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

I do like a silk press though. I um I think a good silk press.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

That long because of the, you know, I swear. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:40

Or and I and I work out.

SPEAKER_03 43:42

So I'm just like, you know In the winter, uh you'll probably see more people having silk press in the winter because if you live in Cali, you can soak press all day long. Is that right? Oh, yeah. The weather in California it ain't

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Wait, hot. It is starting to get hot though. Hot, but it's not moist or what?

SPEAKER_03 44:05

75. A good 7580. I'm telling you, that's one thing. Low humidity? When I lived. No humidity. When I lived in California, I had the best hair, the best skin.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

Well, I mean, it on that side, I can understand it's low humidity, but 7580, and that's it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:26

Nice temps. Yeah. Just depending on where you're living and all of that. Yeah. Washington State, same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Good hair. What'd that mean?

SPEAKER_01 44:42

My daddy decides what good hair is good, right? Yeah. Who decides would have good hair? Absolutely. As long as it's healthy, it's good hair. Absolutely. Okay. But back in the day, good hair. I mean, come on. You say back in the day. Back in the day. Good hair was hair more of a European. Um, you didn't have to have relaxers. You know, you put a comb through it. You can get wet and then it's fine. You know, it didn't, it didn't shrivel up or get, you know, kinky curly. Um Wow. Yeah. I'm looking at your hair.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

But I would think good hair. It's funny you say that because I think of good hair is thick. And but I think it's all about perception.

SPEAKER_03 45:30

It's perception. It's perception. It is because for me, it was long, thick, and didn't require a lot of maintenance. It's just you can watch it and you can go. Right. So, but it's perception and it's perception. Upbringing. Yep. I'm from the South. So good hair to me is gonna be different. That is true. Than up north. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

Yeah. Yep. They're like, she got some good hair. Then you find Indian in your family.

SPEAKER_02 46:00

Oh, then yeah, I remember that. You got Indian in your family.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

And find out that you actually do. Exactly. Come on.

unknown 46:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

And and wavy and all that kind of stuff. For yeah, so for me, it's it's good hair to me is thick. I always tell like the kids they got hair from their father's side. I know he's a fellow Walhean, but his family has very, in my opinion, very nice hair. And so both of our our our youngest two, um, they have that thick hair that anything can happen. It's gonna be there. You know, you go swimming. Joshua goes swimming without hair, and then you go like this, and it's like it's back.

SPEAKER_02 46:46

Yeah, it's up strong, it's water resistant.

SPEAKER_00 46:51

You know, like you uh when I would wash my daughter's hair, we would either run that water for a while before it would, you know, submit to the water. Okay to me, that's good hair, because you know, it's it it will stand the test of time. Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 47:09

So you hear good grade of hair, you hear good hair, you hear thickness of hair. I mean, again, for us, hair means so many things.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

Yeah, so many things. I think my daughter would say good hair would be healthy. It's healthy now. Yes, you know, and being able to be versatile with your hair. I I think, yeah, this generation is a little bit different than what we what would Kaya say?

SPEAKER_00 47:37

Um, the same thing. Yeah. She would say the same thing. It did as long as it's healthy. Um and uh you know, like she's as you know, she heard is uh she has dreads. Um beautiful dreads, and but she is a big time health person about the hair and when it's time to twist it, and when it's time to she would put all these natural things in it and uh so do they say dreads or do they say lots?

SPEAKER_03 48:07

Because I lots of more life. No, I hear those terms locked it up. Uh my they're into all of my kids are into the natural. Yeah. Very natural. Um, all of Charles, he goes from one day he coming in with looks like twist, and the next he's got a big afro. Oh wow. Oh yeah. Okay. They switch up all the time. And Jasmine is locked. Miles just took out his locks and now he has that little starter locks. Yeah, yeah. So they're they're all yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 48:41

I love it. They're cute. Yeah. And when he cut his hair and he, I was like, oh, he looked, what did I say? Him and Charles looked just alike then at that point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:51

But I for me again, here goes to even if you do all that, I still like the nice trim. I do too. Yeah. So I don't know if that's a generational thing, because it still gives me the sense of, oh, look how clean and cut that is. I agree. I like that. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

When Joshua does, like his hair is still like, but then when he got that edge, I like it. I was like, okay. You have your prancing. Like he's doing some. Okay. So we have just a few more minutes. Any other thoughts on uh hair in the way of maybe the way it's it represents our hair in our community. Um political. I would say political statement, or maybe it's not.

SPEAKER_03 49:46

Well, I I would just say this. I don't care work what culture you come from, what race you are. Be you, embrace your uniqueness, embrace the style that you want to wear. Um women were extensions, all women uh have different pieces and secrets to their hair. Just embrace who you are and love who you are and don't hate on the other person. Respect. Right and respect, you know. If you want to learn how to get that done, just ask the question. Don't touch, just ask. Yeah. People are happy to share where you can get it done at. Right. If you want that look, just embrace your own uniqueness and love being in your skin and love being you. That's the key.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

I love it. And if you love it, ask if you can touch it. Before you touch me, because touching my hair is touching me. So, you know, I will embrace. I will, like you said, I'll share. Yeah, but you gotta ask.

SPEAKER_00 50:56

Yes. Okay, I got one more. As soon as you say all people wear extensions. Oh, yes. Okay, as soon as you said that I went somewhere. They give it to the trendsetters. Mm-hmm. Okay. As soon as you said that I went somewhere. Where'd you go? I'm just gonna ride the rest out. I know this. Um, am I gonna laugh? Probably.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

Okay. Um, all right, let me get ready.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

The men.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

Oh boy. Oh, that's a whole episode. Okay. Oh.

SPEAKER_02 51:26

What's up?

SPEAKER_01 51:27

Oh, okay, with the beards? Oh, they didn't glue it all. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:33

And the hair and the hair. Rolled it down. Okay, thoughts. That keeps me up at me.

SPEAKER_01 51:44

That keeps me up on TikTok or YouTube or Instagram. That keeps me up all night in a lantern. And I'm lamping.

SPEAKER_03 51:54

I'm always tired. What in the mess? I would say again, embrace the Uli. If you wanna have it, glued on sold on.

SPEAKER_02 52:06

Don't take me too fast.

SPEAKER_00 52:07

No, don't say it. Don't take me too fast. Now y'all know my husband is a fellow ball heady. Don't take me too fast.

SPEAKER_02 52:16

Please don't show up to my wait.

SPEAKER_03 52:19

I'm thinking that's probably what he says about women. One day you can come and there is nothing, and the next day you are like, he's used to.

SPEAKER_02 52:28

Come on, let's used to it.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

In fact, in fact, let me tell you, let me tell you how used to my husband is with weave. Is I will braid my hair and I will give him the thread in the middle.

SPEAKER_02 52:46

Okay, put this in my hair.

SPEAKER_01 52:50

I was like, I need to make me gonna put this in the screen.

SPEAKER_02 52:57

I love it. You got enough, but you got enough uh thread when you have some classes for other men.

SPEAKER_01 53:03

Okay. I love it. I love it. Trained. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

How many years is that? How many years is that? 26, so it's always the year. So uh in December it'll be 27 years. Okay. Okay. 26 years. In December, it'll be 26 years, whatever the year is. Okay. Oh, I love it.

SPEAKER_02 53:28

Let me show you. Babe, you're ready. Before I love it. Randy Gettys, lean on a thread. Can he actually get my glasses? And then he let me nodding. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 54:00

My man, my bed, my dad. All right, y'all. So any other takeaways, the other uh comedies. No, okay. This has been fun. It's been fun. Thank you for joining. We are her presence. I am Andrea Warmley. We have Kelly Moore, and we have Melissa Benson. Please make sure that you share. We are on YouTube, we are on Spotify, we are on all the major uh uh podcast platforms and also social media. So go in and subscribe if I can talk. Go in and subscribe and share and like. Thank you so very much.