EP20: AI & Art

One of our most controversial episodes yet! How do you feel about robots taking over society? Do you have reservations about using ChatGPT to help you plan recipes or troubleshoot a problem? In today’s episode we dive into the pros and notorious cons of AI and the implications it has on society and for artists. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hello, I'm Vanessa Simone.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

And I'm Mimi Hayes.

SPEAKER_02 0:04

And we are the Girls Next 4.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Welcome back to another thrilling episode. We're so backlogged. I think we only have 10, maybe 12. 10 or 12 episodes. And this is episode 20. This is episode 20.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

Yay! Yeah, when you guys see this, it might be months from We're gonna get it out up. Yeah, we can we're on the very few the trials or the cheapest ones. So we can only upload what four out two hours per month or something. So that's like four episodes. Four episodes. Yeah, eight, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Yeah, but you know, this is the process. Um speaking of creative process, what are we talking about today, Dean?

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Oh gosh. Today we are talking about a controversial topic. You've heard it everywhere. We are talking about AI or artificial intelligence. And I know that ruffles so many feathers in so many different ways.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

When do you can you remember when you first like encountered AI? Like what was it and what were you doing?

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Yeah, so I think it was sorry, excuse me. Um, I think I was one of the first people in my family to use Chat GPT. I think it came out on tick like within the week of Chat GPT launching, is when I started I got an account and I started using it, and I was like, oh my gosh, this is so cool. And then as we got more into AI, you learn a little bit more about all the repercussions that are it has. But at the time, it was so cool and fascinating because I'd ask it a question and it was so thorough, and it almost felt like a therapist just right there for me, um, with any question that I had, and had me compound on my ideas even more and more. So it was very fascinating to use at that time. Um but yeah, when was your first yeah?

SPEAKER_00 2:12

I also remember when like AI images and like playing with you or uploading a picture of yourself and it would make you look like you were in the 1600s or something, you know, like it would put you in this different um scenario or time period or artistic something or other. And then immediately after that like fad happened, everyone's like, this is bad, this is bad, don't do this, this is terrible because it's stealing art from artists. So, like all the the art, everything that you're seeing was like taken from an actual artist. And I remember one time I I asked Chat GPT, uh, was I maybe I was trying to get it to write me some jokes. I think I was like just curious if it could, you know? And I I was trying to get it to write me brain injury jokes because I was like, let me see if it can do my niche topic that I like to joke about. And I honestly feel like it stole one of my jokes. Like one of the jokes on there, I was like, so I think I've said this on stage before, like, you know, and so I was very aware that like it's coming from somewhere, it's pulling from the internet, um, it's pulling from artists, and you know, I I guess we can approach this two ways the the positives and the negatives. And so, where do you want to start?

SPEAKER_02 3:44

Um let's start with uh the pros, the positives. So the reason why uh at first I really liked AI because I think what it should do is enhance people like people's lives. So when for instance, we right now work a 480-hour week as the total week that we work, but when I was looking at AI, I was like, okay, if we work, we don't really need to be working 40 hours a week, we could work 25. And if AI is doing that, but we also still can get paid the same amount, this could actually be really great for everybody. Um, and so and and if you're using AI to almost make your life easier, so um, I guess for instance, now of course I can't think of an example, but if I'm trying to think of some some issue or solve an issue, like I remember I wanted to make a business plan for my company, and I asked AI, told AI, you know, what my business is about, and it actually can created a business for me, a business plan, kind of showed me, okay, these are the markets that would be really good for you to start to look at. I thought, in a way, that that was a good use of AI because I don't know anything about business. By the time I go to the business or the governmental website and figure out all the stuff I need for a business, that's going to take way longer when my goal is to get the business started, right? So, in a way, I thought, you know, that is a better use of utilizing AI. Or sometimes if you want to, so for instance, sometimes people now are using AI to almost sort through all of their social media. So on social media, I have, you know, you have a TikTok, you have an Instagram, you have a Pinterest, you have a YouTube, you have all these channels, and you really just want to make your life a lot easier. So you can use an AI to kind of help you sort through your content and make sure that you're posting on each cont each platform simultaneously or something like that. In that case, I'm like, that's a good use of AI because instead of me going in and spending seven hours posting on each platform and cutting and slicing and all these things, I can go in and do something really simply. And so in that way, I thought, okay, that's this is actually a pretty cool use because it's gonna cut down my time and people's time personally. But yeah, what about you for some pros?

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Yeah, I think it's a good tool um for research type activities where like you are doing like snail's pace googling and like you have 20 tabs open. And so, like a really good example of how I use AI is I'm looking for a literary agent. And so um I ask chat, you know, can you find um me a literary agent who takes memoir who says in their application or says in their profile they accept memoir as a category that they are trying to acquire? Um, and then I will give it my query letter. I'll spit out my query, I'll send it my query letter and say, Can you then once I pick one, I'll say, can you tailor this query letter to that agent? Can you make this letter more appealing to this specific person? Or can you find um comp titles? You know, this is what my book is about. Can you find books that I can mention in my query letter that were in the past three to five years? You know, I could easily go to the library and check some stuff out, go to bookstores. So that's gonna take me extra time. I may not know exactly what to look for that would be on the shelf next to my book as a comp title, but AI is gonna find a couple good examples. And then I can go and buy those books, read those books, and then determine if that is a true comp title. So I use it as a research tool and as a tool to look at certain agents and see if like I ask it, can you look at everything this person's ever done and make them just have to say yes to this query letter? And you know, I think it has been helpful in that sense for me to really take all these different tabs I have open and just have like the one tab and be like, okay. And it's not always foolproof, you know. I can guide it into other places. I use it a lot to tailor my bio. I'm like, hey, can you search the internet for everything you know about me A's and make me a new bio for my speaker profile? Boom, done. You know, and it pulls up and I go, Oh, can you add NPR? Yes, I'll add NPR in there. Can you add that I did the fringe? Yes, add the fringe in there. So like I do it for my bios a lot. I have it make me new bios, I have it make me show descriptions, I have it make me um certain things that I just want a little extra guidance on, um, knowing that I'm still in charge of it, I can still be like, no, I actually like it better the way I wrote it. Um so yeah. I've also like had it do um, and I think maybe you showed me this, but like you tell it what you have in your pantry and you want a meal to help me make a recipe out of what's left in my kitchen. Yeah, what's left in my kitchen, and yeah, you know, so that or I'm trying to lose weight, you know, how much protein should I get, or what's what's a good meal plan to have, um, things like that that um are kind of easily slapped up that um I'm not trying to pass any of that off as like, you know, I think the a bio for a speaker profile is pretty low stakes. I never have it right for me, like we're gonna have to do it.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

We don't have it anything that we do create it like our own, we don't have it do that because we want it to come from our brains, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Um there's a big uh pushback. A lot of people are going completely clean of AI and are swearing off of it, and um, there's good reason for that.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

And rightfully so, because what AI does is you hear about all these data centers being made. These data centers use a ton of water because they they also need to be very cool. So if you think about your normal computer server room, um, those server rooms are usually really hot if there's no air blasting. So you have to use a lot of AC to keep it cool, but also because of the amount that AI of memory and the cloud is technically the data centers. So the amount of memory that it's using is so much that it needs all these data centers in order to sustain itself. So that's this is where people don't like it because obviously our world is we're going through global warming, we're going through all of these things. Why would we accelerate the downfall of this planet, you know? So it's totally understandable where they're coming from. And I think, and I think this is why, as we get into the negatives, like when I hear people saying, uh, like I've seen some really stupid things on TikTok of uses of AI, like, why am I feeling this way toward my sister? I'm sorry, why are you asking an AI that that's just not a good use? And it's it's very difficult because you see the pros and the cons, but I mean, Mimi, you just had an example that you just told me about, and I have an example. So I I think that those will be good to kind of discuss the caveats with um with AI, what's going on with that?

SPEAKER_00 11:39

What was what was it that you Yeah, there's this big controversy right now in the publishing world that um a book that was scheduled to come out with a top publisher has been pulled from publication because of AI allegations. Now I'm not sure if it's just the cover art or if it's the book itself was claimed to be written by AI or it had some hand in it, but um I know it was a black queer writer, and so there's been a lot of like negativity towards the author themselves, and so that's been really hard for that author. And I can I'm like thinking of how that author must feel like yeah, it is it true, is it not? I have no idea, you know. I just know the book's being pulled and everyone's talking about it. Um I truly can't imagine trying to pass anything through an AI and then trying to send it to a publisher, like that hurts my head because uh books are so precious and thoughts are so pre. And I I know how hard it is to write a book. And so I could understand how someone would want to take a shortcut, but it totally takes away the creativity of it and your personality, like as hard as AI might try, you know, it can only do so much, it can only really do so much, and it can try to replicate your personality and your you know voice, but it's never gonna really get there. Um, and so you know, I've just been hearing people talk about that and um kind of the implications of that moving forward. Are more people going to be trying to do this and trying to write books through AI? Um, you know, it's one thing to use it as a marketing tool as an author. It's another thing to use it as to be an author, you know, to use it as a way to create the content itself. I think there's a line that can be drawn between I'm using it to help me on the business side of being an author, you know, whether that's help me find an agent, help me approach publishers, help me with my career letter, um, help me with my bio, you know, help me with these small pieces that go into being an author. But um, I'm totally against using it as, hey, write me a book, write me a chapter. Right. Just no, we can't.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

Yeah, and we can't be doing that. Yeah, and we can't be doing that because and two, because AI, one of the downfalls is you look at the new generations of children coming up, it's really difficult for them to simply write. They have to ask AI everything in order to think. And one, that's kind of one of my biggest fears with AI is the lack of utilizing your brain power, your own personal brain power. Um, and seeing how hard it is for kids to write a paragraph, they're complaining about writing a paragraph. Five sentences, you know, we busted out papers in in a few hours, you know. So that's one difficult thing. And then on the um digital side, or the like there was an influencer who uses AI to basically edit her photos, and this influencer used an AI to edit her photos this one time, and it actually put her face on a black woman, and mind you, this black woman's photo was not AI, so somehow this AI either took her photo from the internet or so, and then put it into that, or the AI kind of replicated that person's body and did that, and so that's was going around, and then also we've seen AI take people's voices and replicate them. So even in whether you whether you're a high-profile person or not, AI can just take your voice pretty much and turn it into something. Um, and so and people can almost utilize AI to impersonate somebody else. And um, yeah, now we have now there's people who have to have safe words so that way they know, okay, this truly is an AI, or this truly isn't, because the scammers to the scammers are using AI to take a like I saw this one that was like the new scam is like they'll send you a picture of your loved one who's like tied up in a van, and they're like, send us a million dollars, or or they they're gonna get it.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

And so it's like that's not a real photo, but yeah, they've used AI to make that person that you know look like they're in the back of a van. And so that's scary. That's terrifying that they're doing that, or they can replicate the voice, make it sound like a loved one saying, Hey, I'm I'm kidnapped, please send them a million dollars so they'll set me free. I've seen that. Um, have you also seen the AI actress?

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Oh, I've I have not seen the AI actress, but I have seen other AI influencers, and that's terrifying. But there was no gosh.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

There is an AI actress. I can't remember her name, but that like everyone's like, why are you getting it a name? Like it's a it's a robot, you know. But um Hollywood is a lot of people are pretty upset that um it's claim this AI actress is claiming is claiming to be the next, you know, Scarlett Johansson or something. It's like you're taking away all these jobs completely you know, for no reason.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

A whole new art, a whole art form.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

A whole uh art form and a whole batch of people that um want to act, and now you're just gonna make it be an AI that every every inch of them looks perfectly curated and they don't have a flaw in sight, you know, that's not her face. And I was like, that's not it. It was like a culmination of like all face, like it was just this like kind of Kardashian, like perfect symmetry, you know, curated face. And I'm like, that's not a real person, you know.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

Like we want real people, we want real art, real people, so real art, and yes, and going off of that, that's one of the scary things is that it is it could take over so many people's different types of art forms if we let it, and so the other thing is it's not really regulated, and so a great job if you want to be a lawyer would be to get into AI law because AI is not really regulated at this moment, and so it's sort of just going haywire, and that's pretty terrifying, but yeah, so I don't know. I'm kind of I'm really it's a really torn subject because I could see how it could be helpful for people in certain little things that could be harmful, but then when it comes to the impersonations and taking art and stealing art or making your making art and then people profiting off of this fake AI generated art, that's really problematic to me. So yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

It's kind of and I think it's kind of the Wild West right now, and it's not being regulated, but it's impacting every level of society, right? Um, it's impacting getting jobs. I found people that you know, um, so many companies are having AI sort through their resumes instead of having the HR or whoever, the hiring manager, instead of having them go through every application, every resume, they'll have to say to AI, hey, get rid of anybody who has this or this or this, or only send us these people. And it got to the point I heard that if you had any kind of images on your resume, any bolded font, any strange font that was not a standard basic font, any kind of creativity essentially on your resume, and it would boot you out.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Boot you out.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

And I'm like, I'm my resume is not even getting seen, you know, anymore. Everything's being passed through AI, and then jobs are just being completely replaced by AI. Um, graphic design, illustration, you know.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

Yeah, it's really difficult because a lot of people exactly because I'm one of my things is photography, but it's watching people who love the art almost be displaced because of AI. Like, for instance, one of our friends is a graphic designer, but they said that her in the company that she works for, it's like all of the graphic design is actually being done by AI, but now the client just wants to look at it and be like, oh, approved or disapproved. Shit fix this and this. So it's taking away that creativity that we we as humans are designed to create. We are made to create. It's in our essence, it's in our core. I mean, even my sister, she's an interior designer, and she's seeing people who come with a full design and they're saying, This is what I want my house to look like, do this, you know. So she's not even getting some of the creativity that comes with her planning it out. And so it's it's it's a very difficult line because it's taking away the humanity of it if we if we let it. And so, but whereas there's other things though that people don't want to do, and I I personally think AIs should do the things that humans don't want to do. That's where I'm more that's where I kind of fall.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Yeah, I think we could give AI the grueling factory jobs, yeah. The you know, coal mining, give it, you know, uh mining for for minerals on the moon, or like Like something that humans just physically cannot do or should not be doing or do not want to physically do, but don't have it do art. That's art. That's our thing. You know, so it is super harmful to humanity and everything that we stand for. And I'm super worried about the kids these days because their critical thinking is just shot to hell. I mean, they plummeting. I can't even imagine also trying to be a teacher right now. Like teachers, shout out to you. I dealt with um, you know, plagiarism and you know Oh, it was before AI. Before AI, you know, can't even imagine plagiarizing. When a kid plagiarized, um, I showed a video in class on like some, it might have been about coal mining or something, something about history, uh, showed some video from YouTube. And I get this paper written by this student, and I go, I've heard this before. Where have I heard this? They literally transcribed the video that I showed in class and tried to pass it off as a paper.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

I was like, you're dumb as shit. Like, I played this video, like it's not even like you picked a different video to transcribe. You picked the video I showed in class.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Yeah, at least you pick something different.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

You transcribed it. And this is also he had to transcribe it by hand because that was before transcription stuff where you could feed an AI a video and say, spit out the transcript. Because that's AI too. Um, I think accessibility is a big thing. Like, I think there are ways AI can help disable people, and especially when it comes to transcriptions or captions or um doing certain things. There's actually um a way to when you're playing a movie, have it have the scenery being transcribed verbally explained for um someone who can't so that they're they're seeing the set pieces. Oh, there's a green chair in the middle of the scene and they're walking towards the chair. And so like they can actually get a picture of everything um when they're watching a movie. Um, so that's super cool. If you could have AI do that for us, make us a transcript or a live caption or something that is going to be helpful for somebody who wouldn't normally have access to that. Or if you can't write, you know, with your hands, you can't use your hands, have an AI. Speech to text is AI. You know, speaking into your phone and having it pop out what you say, that's AI.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Filters are AI, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

So there's a lot of benefit to some of this stuff, but um, I think it gets so out of hand and we don't have a handle on it at all. We don't have control over the powers that be. Um, so we're just kind of like everyone gets to make their own decision if you want to use it or not, if you know what you want to use it for, or if you just want to swear off of it entirely. Um, I think a lot of people would have to say no to it entirely for it to make a difference, um, personally.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

But I could no, I yeah, I think you're right. A lot of us have to would have to say no and take a stance, which um going off of it too, it's is there enough representation in the people who are creating these uh AI platforms that the AI doesn't become biased like humans because uh I mean it if if AI is going off of things that from are from the past, it's it's a pattern recognizer, so it recognized patterns. So kind of going back to even your um job application case, there were some times too where certain things would look for uh qualities within a job, but they would start to notice, oh, most of these are like males. Let's only get the males now, you know? Let's only get the people with a more generic name or whatever. And so you can actually block out whole populations or like people of color or people who have you who need accessibility access or anything, any of those things. So it's it's really difficult, and I think we're both on the consensus. It it needs to be significantly more regulated and before it gets too like crazily out of hand, and um also they need to figure out a way to make it not use up so much data in a way, but that's that's a whole nother story for another day.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Right. I don't even know when I learned that too. I was like pretty devastated. I was like, oh, so we're just wasting water now just for no fucking reason? Like that's crazy, you know. So my I guess advice is is think before you use it. Yes, ask yourself, you know, is there someone I could call who has an answer to this question? Or could I come up with this answer on my own? Could I use my own skills? Um is something that is gonna benefit me, is gonna be helpful, and uh is appropriate, is not creating art, is not doing critical thinking or anything like that. It's just something that you're using as a tool to get by or using for accessibility. Um and you also have every right not to use it, you know. Um but some people are very passionate about um AI in in both cases, in pro and con. You know, um, but man, the people the people making this stuff, they're just rolling in the dough, like this these people creating these AI companies and yeah, just throw running away with it. It's just getting way too out of hand. So um what's the last thing you asked? AI?

SPEAKER_02 28:00

What did I ask it? Um I don't remember. I think it was to help me. Oh, I think it was to help me understand um a different type of job role, what a creative consultant was, and the ways that I can incorporate into my daily life or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

That's good.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

Yeah, because I was looking, I'm looking for a new role because I'm looking for a new job. So if anybody knows, um has a creative consultant role open, apparently I would be really good at that because I'm great at coming up with ideas and helping people with ideas and idea starter, great idea starter. Don't ask me to execute though. So, yeah, what's the last thing you asked AI?

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Um, I asked it to write me a show description for my new show that I'm writing, and so I needed to upload my um show picture, which we just did photo shoot for last weekend. Um, so I I made a I made myself, I didn't have AI, make my show poster. I made it myself. I'm very proud of it, and then I uploaded the the um show poster, and then I said I need a 50-word uh description and like a one-line like little teaser of like what the show is. Um, and it's Darla, who's a tour guard.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

Hopefully, this gets launched before then, so we could say come to Denver Fringe. Yeah, June.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Denver Fringe. Four through seven, I believe. Um, it's only three days. Why did I think it was four days? I thought it was literally like two weeks. Oh no, I wish. Um, it's just a long weekend, but um okay. Yeah, I have it do show descriptions for me. Um anything to kind of summarize if I'm like trying to summarize something, um stuff like that is the last thing I asked it to do. Which I like that it um I like that it asks for like feedback. And it's like, do you want a spicier version? Do you want like a more unhinged version? Do you want it to be more like polished or fringe specific? You know, it'll like ask for different kinds of like ways to make it better, which I think is cool. But um again, we're just trying to weigh the pros and cons, and you know, don't be too hard on yourself. I'll say that. Like you don't hold the weight of the world on your shoulders because you did one chat GPT thing, but you know, think before you GPT.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

Think yeah, think before you AI. And I think that concludes the girls next door.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Yeah. Thanks everybody. Have a great day.