#038 - Interview with Ian Bennett. John and Martin chat with Ian “I’ve played and reffed almost every sport” Bennett

We chat with Ian Bennett here today. Ian has played and reffed everything from League to Boxing to Rowing and beyond. He gives fantastic insight into reffing high level sport and the affects of concussion on athletes amongst other conversations. A truly inspiring Masters Athlete.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Good evening, Sportsbiz family. Welcome to episode number 35 with more frivolity, fun and pheromones of Mr. Martin Winnell, aka the Dog, and myself, John Briggs, or Briggsy, as some of you prefer to call me. This is the only podcast you'll ever need in your life because we hit all the open cracks. We do, Ian. Yes, we do. In all the sports, all the time, because sport is life and life is sport. I have a slightly different introduction today, Martin. Good to hear, John. What have you got for us in this introduction? We've got Mr. Ian Bennett. Mr. Ian Bennett is an all-round sportsman. He eats concrete for breakfast.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Well, that sounds hard.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Oh dear. The list is endless. Rugby union, rugby league, boxing, rowing, athletics, of course, refereeing at international level and a whole load more. What have you got to say to Ian?

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Well, I think this is the first time that we've actually interviewed someone with so many bows to their string. Although I don't know if you've done archery. You may not have. I thought it was strings to the bow. Well, it could be if you want to go that way, John. But I'm just going to go, welcome, Ian. Pleasure, mate. Yeah, it's a pleasure to be here. As a way of getting started, mate, um, yeah, just tell us a little bit about your background, how you got started, what sort of age in any sport.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Well, I was at school at the age of 11, and some people brought up some flyers to the school about a new football or footy club, we call it footy back in those days. Yeah. Which is rugby league, of course.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

And to be honest, until I was nine years old, I didn't even know rugby league existed.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Okay, so it was all union before that?

SPEAKER_00 2:00

No. Oh. Everyone knows.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Soccer?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Well, we weren't a sporting family. Ah. And um didn't they come here? Yeah. And then um we just seen these and I said, Well, I'm gonna go up there. I threw the pamphlet away and went home and told Dad, Dad said, Yeah, I'm taking these up to Ridge Park, which of course is in St. Mary's in the Penrith district. And we signed up. Me and my two brothers.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

I played, so I didn't start playing till I was 11 years old, so that was 1968. I was one then.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Well, I was minus five. In fact, not only was I minus five, my parents hadn't even got married yet. Well, how about that? Anyway, you got the end.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

So it's negative 20.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Yeah. And from that day on, I just loved the game. Well, actually, I loved the game after Dad had taken me when I was nine years old to watch Penrith play Wentworthville in the Sydney second division grand final at Ringrose Park in Wentworthville. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

So does this make this lend you to being a Penrith fan in general? Of course. Doing well at the moment, though. So you've had a good five years.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Five or six years, yes. There's been a couple others.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Can I I'm not a bean wagon.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Yeah, no, exactly. Yeah. Do you mind if I just ask a topical question? Uh it is pure luck that this happened the other day. And we've got exactly the right guy to answer this question. Now you're obviously a blue, a New South Welshman, obviously with a Penrith background. Yeah. Now you're gonna say that that's a game. That tackle that I want you to be totally unbiased here again, because as a ref, you are impartial. Was it a sending off tackle in the state of origin, or was Mr. Ponger hard done to?

SPEAKER_00 3:57

I definitely don't think he was hard done by. He even when I saw it, I know the head was a clash, and even when you actually look at it, you can see where his head hit him, where his shoulder landed. Yeah, if you know how to tackle and you know the game, the way it's played, you can generally get an idea of where that shoulder would have hit or did hit. Okay. Even on the very first angle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

And I knew that that would be the head.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

And I knew the shoulder had hit his head as well as his head.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

So that is a definite sending off, in your opinion.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Definitely. I mean, and then you get these commentators, they go, but it's not a send-off offense. It's only inconsequential and all this crap, right? And then they talk about it's never been a send-off. What a load of shit. That's it. That is the biggest load of shit I've ever heard anyone say. Because I play I played admittedly only park football even during the 80s, and it was hard, even at park football, which is now, of course, community football.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Right. And me being a goal kicker, I got worse. And it was a send-off then, but you know, it was hardly you hardly ever got hit in the head.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

And look at some of the players that played during that era who hardly got hit in the head, yeah, who are now got M and D and all the rest of the thing. All that stuff from from hits in the head. And now these commentators are saying it's okay to be hit in the head.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

You know, and I'm going, whoa.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

Yeah. That was the problem I had with it as well. That was the issue I had with it, is it's all about concussion and protecting the head. Yeah. And so that's fine. And then they're saying, oh, but it was an accidental head clash. Well, that doesn't matter. Once you choose not to tackle, whatever happens after that moment, that's on your shoulders. You are responsible for that. Well, shoulder it hit him. Yeah. And if it's a shoulder, a head, whatever the head clash is, that's on your shoulders for doing it.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Well, a head normally is on your shoulders. That's why I said it. Right. But anyway. Yes. Anyway, Ian, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

When they started all this concussion stuff, I was pretty because playing during the 80s, I did get knocked out a couple of times. Uh-huh. And you don't think of anything about it when it happens to you when you're you know, I was in my 20s. Sure. You know, I remember I remember one I one time I got it, I was playing on the wing, and they said, Oh, that you had the best game ever in the second half. You made six tackles, and six tackles in those days was good for a winger. Yeah, of course. Right? It was, you know. And I go, don't remember. And I drove home.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

Yeah, well.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

I don't remember driving home. Gosh. And I got to the house where we lived, and I opened the door and the old chunder and the gutter.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Yeah. Yeah, as you do. Do you do you think that every player should wear a headguard?

SPEAKER_00 6:55

No. Okay. Some people can't wear headgear. Some people can't even wear hats. Like, I can't wear headgear and I can't wear hats, so it's hard for me doing what I did, what I've done in my life, yeah, to wear any headgear at all.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

I think it's pretty well established these days that wearing headgear does not stop the brain moving inside the skull and hitting the inside of the skull.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

No, it doesn't. But what it does is it lightens it lightens the impact.

SPEAKER_03 7:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Right. They're trying to tell us that all the kids should wear headgear. Again, some kids can't wear it. They get it under their chin and they they're gagging and everything like that. So there's a lot of outside situations about wearing headgear. Yeah. But I don't stop anyone from wearing them and I don't stop them from not.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Yeah. And it's similar with amateur boxing and whatever which we're going to talk about later as well. But do you know? So, in your opinion, Ian, with the amount of let's say steroids involved with sport these days, and especially something like rugby league, where you've the backs used to be a lot smaller. Now they're big, they're like forwards.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

You know, so you keep talking, you go, back.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Yeah, I understand that. Like when I was playing and I was on the wing, when I retired at 42, I was 86 kilos. So I require I retired at 42, so that was 1999 from playing full-time well part-time park footy. I still play Old Boys now, which I enjoy thoroughly. I'm in yellow shorts, of course, because I'm over 60, just a tad. And um and next year, when if we go to New Zealand for the International Masters, I go to the next coloured shorts because I'll be 70. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Seriously, you're gonna be playing at 70. That is fantastic. I yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

I'm participating in the Pan Packs again this year.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

I play I'm playing with Mudgeribar. I played with them the last Pan Packs and we we won a bronze in the social division.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

So so can I can I jump in there, Ian? Um you say yellow shorts, so in the masters scenario, what does the yellow shorts, what does that signify?

SPEAKER_00 9:10

Um depending on what tournament you're in, yep. In if the International Masters and the Tugan one that I play in, which is the South Queensland Masters, um, it's tags. We've got tags. Okay. So they but so anyone that's not wearing yellow shorts or the next ones up past, which is green and blue, right? It's touch. We only have to touch them. But um we don't get tackled, so they've got to take our tags, just like in a game of a league tag. Yeah, very nice. And it's and I enjoy it. Is that still 30 in a side? Uh depends again what tournament. Uh some of them play 11 aside because they find that's easier.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Because a lot of the teams struggle to get enough players.

SPEAKER_02 9:55

Yeah, I think it might have been a few. But you can get a bit more girth. So you can plate up the width of the ground a little bit better than the old days.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Well, there's only a few like that playing. Yeah, there's only a few like that playing. Um, there's a few I really enjoy playing by because at some tournaments, like the Tugan one or the International Masters, which will be at Camden this year. Yeah. Um you get chos chosen to play for Australia. They they choose an Australian team and they choose uh New Zealand side and they play against each other. Wow. Excellent. That's it. And it doesn't matter which coloured shorts you're wearing that, even though the red shorts, yellow shorts you don't tackle, yeah, it's still good.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

And that's next year.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

No, the Camden one?

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

No, that's this the grand final week in Camden. Oh wow. Yeah. Are you ready for it? Hi, yeah, I've already paid my money. Of course. So have you practiced? Yeah, we train every Sunday morning. That's brilliant. Firth Park? Uh we play no, we I don't the Mudry Bar one. Yeah. That's the Pan Pacific Masters games. Okay. Right, which is every two years here on the Gold Coast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? That's a little bit more serious.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Because there's there's medals involved. Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Well, you normally win a few.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

I've seen them. Yeah, I've won a few, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

So as a as a follow-up with the colour of the shorts, as you're getting guys 65, 70, what's the oldest?

SPEAKER_00 11:22

That I've seen play in the Pan Packs. I had a guy, because I I ran the rugby league in Pan Pax in 02 and 04.

SPEAKER_03 11:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Um, I ran rugby league, and we had a guy from Nanango, which is northwest. Where's Nanango? Northwest of um Brisbane. Right. Yep. About a hundred miles or K's northwest. He was 71. Wow. And he was fit as a Mali boy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So arguable and his last game he played, or the last game he played, someone someone tackled him. Oh no. Right, really tackle him. Yeah. What happened to the yellow shorts? And his own teammates went off at him. Went off him because hey, he's look at he's wearing the yellow shorts, you dickhead.

SPEAKER_03 12:13

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Yeah. But he got up, he was lying, he kept going. Yeah, he's kept going.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

So are your are your fields the same size? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

In most most occasions, sometimes they're a bit smaller. Yeah. Depending on where we're paying the tournament. Because some, you know, some fields, but it it's not about the score anyway. It's all it's always 32 all. At the um at those tournaments, the pan packs are slightly different, of course. Yeah. Because they play on a proper footy field. That's 13 aside.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

I've got a left field question here. Yep. Coming from is that right? Left? That's all right. Yeah, from the left field field. We can go there. Well, why not? Yeah. Give it a crack. As a player, you're also a referee, right? So when you're playing, you know what you're saying. If you ever go into ref modes, it's very hard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

It's very hard. Especially, how do I say this politically?

SPEAKER_01 13:06

You don't have to. Doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

So some referees are not the best.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

And I'll probably get a lot of flack from that. That's right. And people even say that about me. Yeah. But I've never ever cheated for anyone. Yeah, yeah. I've always refereed a game the way I see it.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Yeah. Most people don't see it. And I'll I'll give you a perfect example. I'm referee, touch judge, the bench, second row, second row in the grandstand. Yep. Further up. Every one of those will see an incident completely different.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Yeah. Right? Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Yeah. Where's the referee?

SPEAKER_01 13:45

He's on the pitch.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

And where is he? The closest. Oh, of course.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

So he's right. Right. He's the closest. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

And that's why you've got touch judges. If he misses something, that's their job to do.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

What do you think of the video action replay thing then? Ref these days itself.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

I like the bunker.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

But I watch the bunker. And I only watch our T because they get more views than we get on the TV. Yeah. And nine and I'll tell you, nine times out of ten, I've got it after the first or second view. Okay. On the TV one. Yeah. Again, I'm not being a smart ass. Nine times out of ten, I'll get them correct.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

So why does it take them seven views and between 13 and 14 minutes?

SPEAKER_00 14:31

They've got to keep the advertisement banner up.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Oh, there you go. Yeah, no, that's gone. For at least 30 seconds. He's me thinking sport. Yeah. He's Ian the businessman.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

So look, I mean, even with the the Pong attackle a few days ago, different angles show different things. I mean, even with there's a bit of a joke saying that's the Queensland angle.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

You know, so of course. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

And this is because different angles show different things. It's not subjective, it's the angle of the day. Absolutely does it take the is important. Well, it's equivalent. It's equivalent to the heat of the meat. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Well, take the grand final at Penriff and I think not the Brisbane, was it the Brisbane one?

unknown 15:13

No.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

That was a good one, though. That was nice. Yeah, we good. Yeah, that was fun. It is nice to watch Brisbane get beat. Um when the referee gave that decision, yeah. And the NRL officials went straight to the the visit the team that lost the grand final, went straight to their said, come here and we'll show you that the referees got it right.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

We shouldn't have to get to that situation. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

You know, it should not have got to that. In every sport. In every sport, yeah. It should not get to that situation. The referee's decision, whether you like it or you don't, or you hate the referee. Yeah. Right. I couldn't agree more. His decision is final. Yeah. And I the best thing about that decision the other night, the referee made the decision. Yes. He only took the advice. He took the advice from the bunker. Yeah. Right? Who, of course, said that at minimum, that's a sin bin. And that was what they said. Yeah. Right? And he said, no, I'm not happy because I've got forceful contact with the shoulder to the head. Yeah, okay. And that's what it was.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Oh, that's why you're there for yeah, that's right. So let's change tact a little bit. That's a lot of rugby league. Now, my understanding is along with rugby league, you rode.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

I was indoor rowing. Very nice. So an indoor rowing machine. Okay, so so I've gone, I've looked at all the sports at the Pampax, right? And of course I played a rugby league. I've played in that since '98. So I've been into when they were originally called the Asian Pacific Games. Yes, that's right. Yeah. Um I said indoor rowing, hundred metres.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

It's pretty easy. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Right. So I trained for that one six weeks.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

And I I got there, and another funny story. And they moved me. Yeah. I was in this machine. Yeah. I waited in the computer saying you've got to get on this machine because there was a couple of empty machines.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Are they concept two rowers? Is that what it is? Is it concept two?

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Yeah, concept two, they're the machines that they use.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

Very specific in this, in regards to how you do it.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

They're all technically the same, that's why. And then they moved me back to the seat I was in. No, no, no, Ian, you've got to go that way. Yeah, right. So I I moved three times, yeah, and then they said, okay, you're ready, and I'm there ready to go. And I didn't hear the buzzer. Yeah. Because I wasn't focused, because I was worried about the people behind me going, Ian, you've got to start rowing, row, row. And I did. Yes. Right? So I'm on away and I'm doing I'm doing pretty good strokes. Uh-huh. And um I finished, but my very last stroke, I fell off the seat. Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

That's what your mom said. Anyway.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Never been married. See, that's what happens when you make things drawn. Exactly. And the bar, of course, went on.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Oh yeah, that is a we've all done this.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

So anyway, comfortable moment. But it was the last pull, so I was right. Well, there we go. Nothing wrong with the last pull. And I had to go from that, I had to go down to Kira for the boxing. Yeah, right. Okay, and um, so I went and said, How did I go? They said, Oh, you got third.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

So, but I only went in that to try and win a medal in another sport.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Okay. And so, and I did, so I was pretty happy. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

So self-interest, what sort of time you was it like 20 seconds?

SPEAKER_00 18:37

No, I I did it in 18.5 seconds.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

I was pretty close.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

18.5 seconds.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

18.5 seconds for a hundred metres.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

When I war when I warmed up, I did it in 17.5. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say, because you missed the start and fell off your seat. Yeah. That's gotta be worth a second.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

And so I did it again four years later, because as we remember the 2020 was it was a bit of a mess. Um, and I forgot to adjust the tension, yeah, which is normally on 10.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Yes, yeah, it has to be.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

And I did the right amount of strokes, but I didn't I didn't get a place because I was still on seven and not on ten, so it doesn't work as hard. No, that's right. Yep, exactly. Yeah, okay. So rowing well, rowing bad. Yeah, bit of both. I was annoyed with myself, and it shit happens.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Well, well, never mind. May I roll that into the boxing?

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Yep. Because so the same year 2018, yeah. I decided a lot of people said, look, you can't be a good coach in boxing unless you've been in the ring. I totally disagree with that because as we know, John Lewis never fought. Angelo Dundee didn't fight. Yeah. But I thought, I know enough to do this. I'm a novice, never foot, never been in the ring before. Uh-huh. And so I decided to go in. I was fighting as a heavyweight, which is 91 kilos plus, in the 61 plus yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

This was gonna be my question where I dived in there. So you've never been in the ring, you've never boxed, and at 61, you went, ah, screw it, we'll give it a crack. It's pretty awesome, really, isn't it? Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

The jaw like that. You ain't got a neck. Well, yeah, so don't insult me.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

That's rugby union. You've got a rugby union neck, I don't. Yeah, this is a good point. This is a really good point. Yeah. And um, yeah, so I I did it. I told my kids, and they said, You're a fucking idiot, Dad. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

Which is a fair response at that moment.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Well, they're still telling me now, Dad, slow down. Yeah. Yeah, and I'm going to go. They see now you can ignore them. Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

But even things like getting used to wearing a mouth guard is is a practice thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Oh, yeah, yeah. But I I I tried to wear a mouth guard when I played and I couldn't do it. Right. What about the boxing though? Boxing we had no chance. Yeah, yeah, of course. So I made sure I fitted it really properly. Yeah. I've still got that mouth guard at home. Yeah. And then um so I went in and I won I won my my match, even though it was a scratch match. Uh-huh. Because there was no there was nobody my weight, yeah. So put me in a guy that was a lot younger than me. Right. Um, never had a fight already. And and I've just gone out there I've just gone the out thrashing. I was a thrashing. Yeah, okay. There was no there was no skill in my no no no patience. No, there was no technical. So I did everything I used to tell my boxers not to do. Right. Yeah. Were there two minute rounds? They were two minute rounds, but it didn't last two minutes.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Oh, okay. Oh, you stopped him.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Yeah. Wow. But so I got a what do they call them?

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Literally giving him a thrashing. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

He was pretty upset too, but he thought he had a chance. Yeah, okay. And he had his wife in there, because she's I've about to step up. And as you all know, my name's Ian. And she's got up and she's gone, give it to him, Ian. And I'm like, I don't know you. That was his name as well. Oh God.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Everyone's cheering for you.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

So here's this random woman here going, go in, and he was she wasn't even talking about to me. She was talking to her husband. Yeah, well. Stopped in the second round, was it? No, first round. First round stopped. Lasted about 20 seconds. To be honest. But Tyson with what I was told after the bout I did in 22. Yeah. I feel sorry for him now. Yeah, okay. Because um, but oh well, fine. So in 2022 I I fought again. Yep. But this time I was in the super heavyweight, which is 101 kilos plus. Yeah. And I was only just over, but there was only I know it sounds ridiculous, but there was only two of us in there. Okay. And I got stopped in the second round in that one.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

I was pissed off with the referee at the time.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Right. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

But and I'm gonna sound critical here, and I'm still pee pissed off about what happened after the fight because the doctor's come to see me straight after, and I said, look, I I'm feeling fine. But by the time I the doctor saw me, and the time I walked into the change room, my head was just not there. Yeah, dizzy. Yeah. Right? No, not dizzy, just not there. Oh right. I could just I could see and everything, but it wasn't computing. Right. So I sat down and I sat there for half an hour, and not one person came over. Now, if a box is sitting there for half an hour and not moving, should be it should be a flag raised light. Absolutely. The flags weren't raised. Yeah, well, and I'm still peeved off with that. Yeah, yeah. So after half an hour, I've put everything in my bag. Uh-huh. Well, I hoped I put everything in my bag. Yeah, yeah. My head was still and I've walked out to my car, I got to the car park. What?

SPEAKER_03 24:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

Chummed. Right. Yeah. And luckily it was at I was only at the Service Paradise Golf Club. Yeah. And I lived in um I lived in the place I'm living now on Paradise Island. So I drove home and I sat down with my son came home from work and I'd gone to bed with the bucket.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

And I couldn't slice, so I went and laid on the lounge and watching the TV. And my son's come home and he saw the bucket there. He says, Are you alright, Dad? I said, I'm alright at the moment. And then about within about 15-20 minutes, he heard me drive reaching. He said, You alright, Dad? I said, No, we better call an ambulance. Yeah, wow. And um, so I caught the ambulance and I got delayed concussion. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

And this is the part that really scared me for three weeks after that. Yeah. Right. Now keep that in mind. I was having residual effects from the concussion. Gosh. So now you can understand why they they've brought these rules in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Accidental head clash doesn't matter. The result is the same, whether it's an accident or not.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

And like I said, I felt no, I felt fine after the the bout. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Until I you know. Can I just change again and we go and talk about your refereeing as well? So how long have you been a ref for?

SPEAKER_00 25:38

I got my ticket, I can tell you the exact day, on the 14th of August, 1971.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Bloody hell.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

Right? Well. I started refereeing uh, which was group 12 in those days, now called Central Coast Rugby League. Okay. On the Central Coast in Sydney or New South Wales. Yeah. And that's where I started refereeing. Yeah, right. And I earned $348 for the season.

SPEAKER_03 26:04

Oh, the season.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Yeah. Uh the uh and I was earning that on a weekend just before I retired.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Yeah, okay. What what do you love about refing? What what's because it's obviously a passion of yours.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

I love refereeing.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

I love and I love playing. Yeah. Hence why I do both in the masters. Yeah. The whole problem with refereeing is damn politics. Right. And that's the biggest problem in refereeing is the politics. Yeah, right. In what sense though? Like I told you before we come in, I was referee's coach. Uh-huh. Um, and I used to get people come up to me and say, All we want is consistency. Yeah. You know, every referee and every person on earth sees something different. Yes. Yeah. When something happens. Hence why the police say an eyewitness account of a thing, uh-huh, you can't take it. It's a conviction. Yeah. Yes, right? But it's the same thing as a referee. Okay. All right. Now the referee in most cases, depending on the age group, is five to ten metres away, maybe a little bit more if there's been a break. Yeah. Right? So he's always nine times out of ten, he's going to be the close, or he or she, sorry, I should say now, yes. The closest. Right? The next, if you're lucky enough, would be your touch judge. Uh-huh. Right. Now they're they're hit they're hit there to assist you. Yes. Not to make a decision for you. The only the only time a ref a touch judge can't be overruled is for the touchline. Right. Yeah. When they put the flag up. Every other thing, you you can. Yeah. But I really enjoy refereeing. I love it. But the politics just got too much. Okay. And to be honest, I'm still pulling knives out of my back.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Oh, right. But you've also coached people how to become a referee as well. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

When they I used to run the system changed four times in the ten years that I did it. Yeah. Wow. The the system of of um getting referees to do their ticket. Yeah, okay. When I did it back in the 70s, and then in 1980, it was still the same. You had the assessor inside, they had a magnetic football field, and they'd have the player and they go, A kicks off, it hits the corner post on the full. As soon as you answered, A kicks off, it bounces there and then hits the corner post. A kicks off, goes through the goalpost and goes out on the full. A kicks as soon as you answered, so you were under pressure. Right. So that you got used to that pressure. Yeah. And it helped you as a referee because refereeing is a pressure job. Of course it is. Doesn't matter what age group you referee, under sixes, A grade, NRL. It's a pressure job. Because always at the back of your mind, and if any referee says it's not, is the opinions of other people. Of course.

SPEAKER_03 29:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

And and this might sound a little bit uh egotistic, plus it is, to be a good referee, you've got to have a bit of ego. Yeah, well you do, don't you? Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

Right? Yeah, just like being a good player. Yes. You've you've got to have that ego because you've got to shut everything else out.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

Yeah, and uh to be honest, I I always believed, and and the fair Dinkham people involved in the game would say that I was a fair referee. I used to have guys come up to me and say, You referee the way you see it in. Yeah. I said, that's right. Yeah. So if you want to be a a dickhead, you're going to get penalised.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah. How else do you ref other than the way you see it? There's not many other ways to do it. Unless you've buy round paper by understanding.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Yeah, no, I understand. No. Understand that, but some people referee to the crowd. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

Uh yeah, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Not in Harrigan, maybe? Not intentionally. You mean Bill Harrigan? How is your decline?

SPEAKER_01 30:20

No, yeah, I was talking.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

No, no, no. Let's get one thing straight. They don't do it intentionally. Yeah, it just happens. It just happens.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

But do some of them light the camera on them a little bit? A bit more than the others?

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Oh, we all love being on a camera, don't we?

SPEAKER_02 30:37

I just thought, oh, but certainly my I think Barry Gromasol did, didn't he?

SPEAKER_00 30:41

He enjoyed the camera. I'll tell you a little story. Yeah. Uh I was working with a guy in Sydney planting trees in Mount Druid and that to beautify beautify the streets. Yes. And I was talking to a guy there who worked for the Black Town Council. And his brother went to Mackay.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

Gomelsall Territory. Uh-huh. Right. Yeah. And he was coaching one of the local sides up there. And every time Gomosell refereed, his team got beat. Yeah. And he went up to it and he said, why do you give us such a you're a new South Welshman? Right. And that's exactly the grasshopper.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Well, roll into Reb Union in Minna, because we've got about six minutes left. So, but you've international, you sorry, you've refereed international events as well, haven't you?

SPEAKER_00 31:30

In league, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Well, I've been involved.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Okay, like I I was a touch judge for Penrith versus Crenella. Oh no, sorry, Parramatta versus Crenella. Yeah, right. Lismore.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

That was a trial, of course. Yeah. But in the old days, the referee would get that in that area as well. But after when the NRL came into power, they stopped all that. Yeah. So you used to get a local referee who would referee it in the two touchdowns. This they only gave us made us the touch judge. It was myself and another one, of course. I've touched judged an international game, the USA versus Seagulls. Yeah. At Lismore again. Oh wow. And I was I refereed at the policeman's tournament here on the Gold Coast. I can't remember what year it was. Yeah. I think it was about 2004. Yeah, right. Oh no, 1997, I think that was. And I ended up getting a call from a gentleman anyway, who I got on one of the police officers who was running the tournament. And then he rang me up about six months after that tournament and said, Can you do the in-gold touch judge of New South Wales Australia versus New Zealand police tests?

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Brilliant. Okay, that's pretty good. Just talk about union then, just quickly, because I mean I'm a little bit more union inclined than than league. But in your opinion, what's what's happening with the grassroots situation there in Australia?

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Okay, to be honest, ever since the Eller brothers and all them, who of course were given scholarships to go to a private school, but they're just basic, for a better word, basic Australians. Yeah. Just the average Joe. Yep. But since then they haven't. The last time I remember union being a big thing in the schools was when Glenn Liddyard was 15 and he was f 15 and in the opens. And they they used to have a competition exactly the same as the old Commonwealth Bank Cup, or which now whatever they call it, now the Stay Alive Cup, whatever it is. The Schoolboy Comp. Uh-huh. Which which we don't hear much about anymore either. Right? That used to be on TV. And he played with Cambridge Park High School. And they wanted to be the first school to win both. Yep. Because they won they won the the School Boys' Championship in the league and they wanted to win the union. I think they got beat in the final. But um yeah. And I haven't heard much of it ever since.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

I don't hear of any. And it just seems that and it's the same problem in England, it's only private schools. Yeah, predominantly. Predominantly private schools. And it and and I might sound a little racist, a bit I believe, if you have a look at the Australian side, and again I'm I'm not trying to be they're not Australian descendant. Uh-huh. If that makes sense. Yeah. Yes. I'm not trying to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

They want to select Paul. Yes. That they get their elite level players from missing a bunch of guys.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Is money a bit to do with it?

SPEAKER_00 34:33

With uh not enough funding going into well, I don't think the uh the Australian rugby union do it. All I remember when I was a kid, rugby league, you had your districts. Yeah. But if you wanted to play union, you could be at St. Mary's and you'd have to go over to bloody North Sydney to play a game on Saturday.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

But even that was when I was a kid. So that's back in the 70s. Yes. You know, um, and that's still the problem now. They even the soccer now used to be a Penrith district. Now they've got to travel. They don't just play in the one area, they travel. Where in league you still don't.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Right, okay. It's a lot easier with League than Yes. It's a shame because I I want to see them all of these, you know. Not not because I want to see them uh win, because I don't, I want to see them lose, but I want to see them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

But the biggest the biggest thing that's helped rugby league over the last few, besides again, I'll probably get ostracized. Yeah. Yeah. I've loved what they've done with the game.

SPEAKER_02 35:41

Velandis only now.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

Yeah, well, that's the tenant.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

I've loved what they've done.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

I've done what they've I've loved what they've done with the game. Yeah, okay. Right. They've made it faster.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Right. They've when they took over just before COVID, the rugby league was $14 million in debt. Right. Right. Now they're $170 million in front. Wow. With assets. Yeah. So, you know, and you still get these people say, oh, they they won't support grassroots.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

But since I've been playing, the back in those days, the Aurel and all that, they never gave money to the kids. It used to be always the parents selling raffles, working kids. Right. Yeah. Having chook selling actual a barbecue chok on the day there for 20 cents a ticket. Yeah, yeah. And you won that, and that was your lunch. Yeah, yeah. The clubs have always had to make their own money. Yeah. Even when I ran my club in Bonnie Rig, we only charge the kids $25 to play. I moved from there to here, and it's $150. Yeah. And I'm going, what are you charging? Oh, we've got to give them t-shirts. Because every other club gives them a dress shirt and all this.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

Yeah, right. Well, we're nearly at the end of this here. And so the future for yourself as an all-round sportsman, does it evolve around the masters and the pan packs?

SPEAKER_00 37:08

Is that for you? I'm it's been hard to motivate myself to get, well, I can motivate myself to get training, but it's just been hard to do training. Yeah. I'm my next goal is to run a 60-meter sprint.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

Yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

A 60-meter sprint and try and win a medal in that. Yeah. So if I do that, I've won four medals in four different sports. Brilliant. Are you training for the 60-meter sprint? I'm trying to I'm trying to brilliant. Every time I start, every time I start, something happens that it's a very small thing. You have to be careful with injuries and things. Right, yeah, but but it's not the injuries that stopping me, it's just life.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Well, it's that's all anaerobic fitness, isn't it? Which is probably what your main strength is anyway. If you do a hundred meter row, then 60 meters, 60 metre spring similar.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

Well, I was pretty I was pretty quick when I was 15. It was I was the third fastest in our school. Okay. And they used to just beat me from the start, so I had a shit start. Yeah. So they got a metre or two in front of me from the start, and that's what they'd beat me by. Yeah, okay. And so and we were running pretty much for our age group that you know the the times that you needed this to train for.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

And when is that? When's the when will the 60 meters be?

SPEAKER_00 38:31

That's uh the Pan Packs in the first week of November.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

Okay. You've got four or five months to train for that.

SPEAKER_02 38:38

And uh are you just doing your own training with that or are you training with the sp you know runaway what runaway based sports centre for the masters groups like that?

SPEAKER_00 38:51

I was gonna go to uh a Little Athletics. You bet all for that, don't you? Little Athletics has got no age group. Only annoy. But yeah, that that's a goal I have, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to. I'm hoping to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

Yeah. But well, just out of curiosity, and and this uh if you don't have this answer, I I fully understand. To medal, you'll be 70 by November? Or no, no, I've only just turned 69. Okay, so there's so you're gonna be 65 to 69 age group, or is it 61 to 69?

SPEAKER_00 39:28

Yeah, 65. Okay, 69. So, what sort of time do you need to get a medal? The last time I looked, you can go online and you can they put the times in, it was eight point something seconds. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

That's that's still pretty quick. That's still hiking, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 39:47

Yeah, yeah, wow, okay. The last time I timed myself over a hundred and I wasn't fit, that was when in '84 when I was playing with um Wyong, which we won the grand final that year, actually. Right. Um I I I ran a hundred metres in fourteen seconds. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 40:07

Okay, yeah, okay. You may not be quite there.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

But I was carrying an injury. Well, there you go. All right, hence why I had to do a fitness test so I could do it.

SPEAKER_02 40:17

Very nice. That's awesome, yeah. It's been an absolute pleasure, mate. I think it's all we got to tell me. Anytime. What else do you have to tell me?

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Look at the size of those hands.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

What the hell?

SPEAKER_01 40:28

My little one gets sort of gone.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Hence why that guy beat me. Yeah, he whispered in my ear, he said, I've never been fucking it so hard in my life. And that's a true story. Yeah, fair enough, dude.

SPEAKER_02 40:41

Well, I think that's all we've got time for. I think that's it. What a thoroughly entertaining conversation. Absolutely. But that's literally all things sports. It's goodbye from me and it's goodbye from him. Goodbye.