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#043 - Interview - Gavin Topp. Inspirer, Boxer, Author, Motivator, Changer of Lives
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Today, John and Martin had the absolute pleasure to sit down with Gavin Topp. Australian Light Middleweight Boxing Champion, author of 3 books, philanthropist and amazing motivator. Gavin shares his incredible life story, his journey and how he now changes the lives of thousands of people all over the world.
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Welcome to Sports Biz with my mate Martin Winnell, who is my cohort today, as he always is, otherwise known as the dog. How are we everybody? And today we have got the pleasure of discussing boxing, motivation, inspiration with Mr. Gavin Top, former light middleweight champion of Australia, and contender for the world championship of I may so myself. Gavin, how the devil are you?
SPEAKER_00Mate, I'm fantastic. Thank you for having me. This is awesome. It's been too long, John. It's great to be here.
SPEAKER_01Well, we've known each other for a little while in the in the business of fitness and stuff. But we're not here to talk about that today. We're here to talk about your your history, your journey, your careers in plural, and the effect that you're having on people today as well. Which is ongoing. That's right. Sounds like a man that's got all bases covered there, John. Just a bit. So uh do you mind if shall we start at the beginning and just a little bit on your boxing career? Because that's I think the basis of what I know you as anyway. And don't tell me if I'm wrong, but I think has that formed you as a person, the person you are today?
SPEAKER_00I think partly. But I think probably more so um, you know, growing up, everyone's got a story, you know? Yes. And and and we're we're we're formed and molded obviously from our environment. Yeah, and obviously, you know, I I had a mum and dad who loved me to bits, and um, but you know, we've all got stuff, haven't we?
SPEAKER_01Of course, absolutely we do, yeah. So and and I and sorry, go on. So how did you get into boxing originally then? Was your dad a boxer or brothers?
SPEAKER_00Well, my dad, yeah, my dad um had a seven fights, yeah. Um yeah, and and I and I suppose his story was um, yeah, he was in out of jail a bit, so that that's gonna mess up your boxing career, just a bit that's all that's all it messed up. Boxing career, it's gonna get in the way, but uh, but my dad's amazing, and and what I suppose how how I got into boxing to answer that question. My dad, when he got himself sorted out, he used to buy and sell businesses, yes. And and and you know, when you buy a business, you go to a new town, don't you? Yeah, well, he did anyway, you know, because he had fish and chip shops, um, general stores, service stations, pubs. You know, he was him and him and my mum were kind of like the masters of buying something that was run down, yeah, build it up, and then sell it for a profit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, okay, and that's what on to you.
SPEAKER_00So so we went to a new town, we've got a fish and chip shop. I'm playing the pinballs, the local hoodlums always hang around the pinball machines, yeah. And and and they invited me to a party. So I went to a party, and I'm like 14 at the time, and they were a little bit older. Turns out the party was an 18th. Anyway, long story short, the bully of the town was probably about 19 or so at the time. He beat the bejeezus out of me in the back in front of everyone.
SPEAKER_01Happy birthday.
SPEAKER_00So that um birthed something in me. Yes, that birthed an anger, a resentment. I thought, how am I gonna square this up? Yeah, you know, and believe me, it was a long, lonely uh walk home on my own that night, you know? Yeah, and uh, and I was humiliated, etc. And um, so that kind of got I just like had a chip on my shoulder. So it was it about uh two years later, I I got to the point where I was just angry, yeah. And I never wore shoes that I couldn't run in or fight in. I never wore my best clothes out because they always seemed to get ripped, you know, like I was just always, you know, chip on my shoulder. And uh so I remember at about 16, my dad goes to me one Sunday morning, opens the door, you know, there's clarity coming out of my nose, my clothes are ripped again. He goes, Gave, we're gonna teach you how to fight. Yeah, and I remember vividly thinking, like, I would love to know how to fight. Like I've got the courage, but I've just got no idea, you know. So he took so the following week he took me to the gym, and it was just like duck to water. Okay, you know, yeah it was almost like I just uh and what was amazing looking back, he took me to a bloke by the name of Spencer driver down foot scray in in Melbourne, and my dad trained with him. Oh wow, and this guy's still training people, you know. Yeah, right. Uh well, I suppose it was only like you know, 15 or 16 years later, it wasn't that long, you know. But you know, he seemed old, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, of course. So obviously, then you had a number of amateur fights or junior fights.
SPEAKER_00So then I'm training for a couple weeks, and and they said to me, You're gonna fight like in three months. Yeah. And I went, What? I'll never be ready.
SPEAKER_01Don't do that very often these days.
SPEAKER_00So uh, so I just did everything, I just was like mega focused, said goodbye to the old environment and just knuckled in, you know. And I mean, I end up having like six fights in about eight months. Wow, yeah, yeah. And and it was funny, later on down the track, like they like I remember saying to me, Dad, like, that was crazy. Like, how did you know I was gonna be ready? He's well, we didn't, but we thought if we don't have that finishing point, you'll never get ready.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_00So I didn't know that I didn't know that that would there was a plan B. I thought there was just plan A. So I ended up fighting, but but you know, I had a bit of a um, I had some issues, let's say, and I remember the coach saying to me it sort of got to the end of the season, the boxing season, you know, uh the amateurs, and he goes, Gave, have a couple weeks off, because I just didn't miss a day. Right, you know, yeah, you gotta have a couple weeks off, you know. Yeah, yeah, and that that sort of like two weeks lasted like about two months. Yeah, and I and what happened was I went back to the old environment, picked a drink up, and you know, just kept started drinking again. Started carrying on so I wanted to get back, but then I just got that taste for it. So anyway, I got back to the gym for that second year. Same thing again. I trained, I had about six fights in six months, and the guy and the coach goes, have have a couple weeks off. And what did I do? I went and had a drink, and that that took me about six months to get back to the gym.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, right. Well, alcohol made sound a little bit more difficult.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, around that time, what had happened was in the amateurs, um, I ended up kind of beating all the top guys, and um but that was kind of in the state and and so forth. So I remember it was like my 12th fight, and they they lined me up with a guy, oh, I can't think of his name right now, but he'd he'd been to the common uh Commonwealth Games, he'd had about 60 or 70 fights, and I I remember um well I remember feeling yeah, I don't know whether you guys have ever felt this, like I shouldn't be here. Like I was tired from beating all the top guys like in the state, you know, and um and anyway, he I got knocked out, I think the second round. You know, just like I I remember I remember opening my eyes and seeing the lights bright, but I might be back here.
SPEAKER_01I got I I gotta tell you, Gab, that that is not where I thought that story was going.
SPEAKER_00But you know, you talk about things shaping you, yes, yeah, yes, exactly. And and I suppose you know, every every every man has an opportunity to either step up or step sideways.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know I said you go on. So as as with that moment in mind then, what made you then go, okay, I'm not gonna quit, I'm not gonna pack this in, I'm gonna go forwards, I'm gonna get better. What what went through your mind with that?
SPEAKER_00Good question, because I quit. Ah, wow. I said, uh not where I thought we were going. Yeah, yeah. Hey, can I can I say one thing? Well, uh whenever I get to get the opportunity to speak like I have today, or whether I'm speaking in in America, we've been doing a lot there or wherever, um, I almost it was said to me, be yourself, everyone else is taken. I'm just gonna take it.
SPEAKER_01Yes, right, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I I remember saying up yours, and of course, uh you know, looking back now, I didn't know it at the time, but I was quite undeveloped in my career.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00I had ability, but I undeveloped. You know what it's like when you get all that ability and potential, but not the character to back it. So I quit and went and got drunk, basically.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, there you go.
SPEAKER_00And and and I remember it was about uh I don't know, 10, 11 months later. I remember thinking, man, I've got to change. Like this is terrible, you know. And how old were you then going about 20? I was I was like 19.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_0018, 19.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00I remember I went to this gym, it was a different gym, but I but I knew you maybe some of you guys know it was uh Keith and Lester Ellis. Yes, of course, yeah. So my my dad's cousins married to well was married to Keith, you know. So it's kind of a family connection. He kept saying, uh, go on, Gav, get back to the gym, come down, and and whatever. So eventually I thought I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired with these these drinking buddies, you know. I'll go back to the gym. I trained a couple of days, and he says to me, Gav, if you train every day this week, I'll get you a fight Friday night. Right. And I and I remember thinking that will keep me out of the pub.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, is this professional at this stage now?
SPEAKER_00This is 20 pro I still amateur. Wow, okay, yeah. So so I fought that Friday night, and you know, we know it's like when you first start training, you're kind of fresh until the training kicks in. Yeah, I was relatively fresh. It's a three-round fight, you know. Um, I won the fight and he grabbed me and he goes, Go home. He goes, Have a good weekend. I'll see you at the gym Monday, and we'll do the same again next week, and I'll get you another fight. And of course, I'm buzzing, I'm like, Oh, this is awesome. And I did that. I and anyway, uh, and I won the next week as well. Yes, and he said to me, Listen, there's what's called a round robin. Yeah, so so basically you go, it's like the victor was the Victorian titles. Yeah, well, if you go well there, uh, then you go into the Australian title. So, long story short, I end up having eight fights in seven weeks.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, right. Wow, right.
SPEAKER_00I was sore, I was tired. I remember I wasn't fit, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Just to interrupt, Gavin, you've probably played different sports as well, but there's nothing like boxing. Now, my friend here, Martin, we often discuss boxing on our uh on our podcast. And this this may go pear-shaped for me right now. Do you know what Martin calls it? He calls it skipping, for God's sake. He calls it skipping. To be fair, to be fair, that's about as hard as I thought. Uh to be fair, John, I don't call boxing skipping. So just to clear this up, Gavin, I refer to boxing as a sport made up to legitimize skipping for hardening. No, you've never said that before. Anyway, so it's the toughest sport. I like it. It's the toughest sport in the world. It's not like tennis, is it? It's not like cricket, it's a hard, hard, hard sport.
SPEAKER_00Uh well, I don't know. I I suppose it's whatever you get conditioned to. True. You know, I suppose not everybody uh chooses to get conditioned to boxing.
SPEAKER_01There's other sports you could get a different conditioning to but you're you could get a broken orbital socket, a broken jaw, smashed teeth. Worse. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, well, in that in those eight fights in seven weeks, I remember it was after about the third fight. Um, I was training and my my nose got broken sparring.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, right, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And of course, you've got to keep fighting because I'm winning. You keep winning, you you keep going. So I remember fighting like four fights like with a broken nose. That was hmm, yeah, that was challenging.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00That that is exactly why I run so but but to answer your question, that was kind of I suppose my introduction to boxing, and then once I once I end up, I ended up coming third in Australia, and I remember my dad brought another business, and I was sort of hanging around in Melbourne, but he he ended up he swapped a house in 20 acres for a caravan park and a service station up in North Queensland.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so he was up there for a while.
SPEAKER_00I thought, oh, I'm gonna get up there. So I met all these people that were from around the world. They were like, he had this caravan, it was like backpackers would come. So I'd meet people from the UK, from Ireland, like from all around the world. So I remember because I'd never really known anyone who who had traveled, you know. Yeah, okay. Not like that, anyway. So I remember talking talking to these guys, and and I thought I'm going, I'm doing it. So I got a job, got all this money together, and kind of took off on uh to Europe and back and through Asia and the Himalayas and so forth. Awesome. Yeah, so it was amazing. But I reckon when I went what happened was I went on, I ended up it was pretty dangerous looking back because it was before mobile phones or even you knew where you were going, a map or anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, absolutely, yeah. I guess I was pretty naive. Well, I guess I was, you know.
SPEAKER_01But you learnt a lot in that time.
SPEAKER_00Well, do you know what I learned the hard way? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right, yeah. Nothing wrong with that.
SPEAKER_00Well, you know, I actually nearly hit I I nearly killed myself a couple of times. Oh wow, yeah, it was pretty dangerous. There was one time, I mean, in Asia, that's a whole nother, I won't even go down that track, but I I remember um uh particularly when I ended up in Amsterdam, because I met some some guys in in Thailand that were from uh they were Jewish, they were from Israel, and they were just like they're all into all sorts of chemical drugs. And so I got it took me to another level, but I they end up they said, come to Amsterdam and we'll give you a job. I'm like, I'm there, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's sort of like you had me at a hello, you know. So, but I remember one time I remember coming back from uh like a rave party with ecstasy and LSD and playing up, and I remember looking at my ticket. Remember the old days you'd have a ticket, an outline ticket, yeah, never did them, and and I can't believe I still had this ticket because there's one spot in Asia I actually give everything away apart from my bum bag, and and I was living on this nudest beach for a couple of months, like I was out there, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't know, this is a sports podcast, but anyway, as Tyson Fury says, we're all just bare bums in the shower. That was meant for a couple of months, yeah. That's not helping with the tough man of boxing, is it?
SPEAKER_00But but but I I remember um get coming home one morning in Amsterdam and checking me my ticket, and it was all being wet maybe 20 times. I can't believe it was still intact. But I I looked at the I realized I didn't know what date it was, you know, because I said it left on the date. Then I found out the date, that's not too bad, but I remember looking at the month, and I and I thought, what month is it? Yeah, I didn't know and then I sort of found that out. And I remember a guy kind of looking at me, you don't know what month it is, what's you know, but and and I realized I'd missed the plane by three weeks. But the worst bit was I was actually meant to be in another country, no way to leave. So it was like uh it was like a bit of a wake-up call. Yeah, you know, and and it was always this this little voice in my head. There's a couple of things in my in my head, but I remember there was a time when that that sort of eight fights in seven weeks where I had three different trainers would that I didn't train with. I did, I knew of them, I didn't really they knew me, I didn't know them, type of thing. And the three of them all said the same thing. They said, Gav, you've got so much potential. Yeah, where have you been? Like what where you know and I also and and I always like I couldn't, I didn't have an answer. Yeah, I knew I had ability, I knew I had potential. I just didn't know why I kept going off the rails, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I remember that sorry, what changed it?
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm I'm I'm I'm realised I've missed the plane by three weeks, I'm in a I'm in another country, like uh than I'm from what I'm meant to be. And I remember ringing me dad up, and I you know, it was a pay phone, reverse charges back, and and and I remember him listening to me and he said, mate, do you think maybe you might have a problem with alcohol? Okay, and I'm like, How dare you? I remember the phone call and I started smashing the phone against the the I was so angry, I was so and there's a line waiting for the phone. This there's a line, and they were like, Well, this guy's lost it, you know. But but and long story short, I thought I've got to change something. Yeah, so uh it took me a couple of weeks, but I kind of got back to Australia and uh and and I kind of like I've got to I've got to clean myself up, I've got to get back to the gym, I've got to get fit, I've got to stop drinking, I've got to, you know, so that was kind of a pivoting point. And it was and I've been maybe clean sober for maybe a month or something. I'm trying to get back in the gym and train. I thought what I'm gonna do is get fit enough, and then I'm gonna head back to Melbourne because I'm up north Queensland. I go back to my trainer, you know, always got these plans for me and what have you. Um, and and and it was like I uh my sister's boyfriend, who's at the time being, you know, for a couple of years, he committed suicide.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00So it was like, wow man, what the heck? You know, like that's tough. So I stayed a bit longer with my sister, and yeah, I didn't want to leave, obviously. Um yeah, so that was that was so I was on my way, so I was on so after about a few more months staying with her, making sure she was okay, and I remember heading back to Melbourne, you know, and and I and I remember stopping off the Gold Coast because I'd because I'd gone A-Wall. Um more will Michelle Ivan, you know, we've been together since we were kids, but uh me being me and having stuff going through all this uh drinking and playing up and carrying on, and you know, you know, I'd sort of gone A-Wall, you know. So I was heading back and I heard she was on the Gold Coast. So I thought I'd call in to see her, rang her mum. Her mum was really hesitant to give me her details, of course. But I managed to be able to manipulate her and get it out of her, and so I thought I'll stay on the coast for two days, you know, and I and I obviously I seen her and and um you know I love her. She's I've always loved her, you know. Um and you know, it's like uh man, that that two days turned into two weeks, turned into you know, marriage and seven kids later. Wow, but but but what happened was when I what happened was I seen some old friends and I seen her and I picked a drink up again. And remember, I'm trying to go. I found a local gym here, and I remember um the remember Jeff Malcolm was getting ready for uh a world title defense. And uh so they're training in the gym, they asked me, could I be a sparring partner of his? And like this guy's a legend, you know. I was just honored to to be a sparring partner, you know. I thought it was great for me, you know. And um, so it's training with him in camp with him sparring and and whatever is just amazing. But I remember there was because I started drinking again, I would become, I suppose, unmanageable, you know. Yeah, but I remember a real pivoting point. Was um like it was training in the afternoons, and it was so hard to go that long. Yeah. Sober. I remember I thought, and there was some, you know, so I started knocking around with with deadheads again, uh, or with good people, but with bad problems. I remember them giving me some some drugs. I remember going to the gym that afternoon and I was stoned, you know, and and I sparred and I done everything, and I thought, man, this is this is not a rock bottom, I don't know what is, you know, like and uh and anyway, I remember making the decision if I can't be good, I'll be bad. If I can't be good at being good, I'll be bad, but I'll be good at being bad type of thing. Yeah, so it was like a really downhill fast slide. And I'm not gonna go into it, but I remember, you know, knocking around with criminals. I remember getting kicked out of the casino. Yeah, after getting there one night, midnight, I'd been paid from uh you know criminal activity, had a heap of money, and I remember drinking at the casino all night to about eight o'clock in the morning. The security threw me out, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And and and give me a belt and escorted me over the bridge, give me a belt, I'm gonna get you back, you know. And so I went back there on blind drunk. I remember going back, getting in my car drunk, and I remember and I had a guy with me, and I remember parking, like reverse, driving in, reversing. I thought I'm gonna reverse straight through these double doors and show these sods. You don't beat up me. Yes, and I remember at that point, it was like this. I remember because I was in there to blackout, right? And I remember that the guy I was with, he's screaming his head off at me and kind of woke me up out of something. And I thought, oh, I'm about to do this.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, wow.
SPEAKER_00I remember putting in driving taking off. I remember getting home that morning, and my my Michelle, who before she was my wife, remember walked through the door and she goes, Where the heck are you being? Because I was meant to be home the the night before, you know. And I remember for a split second, she goes, You need help. And I went, I know, can't do this.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that is literally a sliding door moment.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So she got straight on the phone to the doctor, right? And he recommended uh a shrink. So I remember going there, she got me straight in straight away, you know, and it was like that day, and I remember the doctor asked me all these questions, and I remember thinking, this guy is awesome, you know. He's I'm talking about what people had done to me. I was the list of all this stuff, and at the end of it, he goes to me, listen, son, there's not much I can do for you. And I'm like, oh dear, and she and he goes, Um, the only place for you, listen, there look when you go out, the secretary's gonna give you a number, you bring that number. As it was a drug and alcohol place, and I remember thinking, yeah, like I wanted to punch him. I remember thinking I'm paying you good money, you'll serve me this rubbish. Yeah, anyway, mate, there's a whole heap of stories, but I ended up getting to uh a meeting where they're talking about. Well, I remember sitting down at this meeting and and I was petrified, like I'm sober. I was actually petrified. Uh, I don't even know why I was, but I remember sitting down and listening to these people talk. The first guy talked about um when he drank, he wouldn't know, he would, he could, he was always stopping drinking, but when he started, he couldn't stop. It was like, and when he drunk, there was always regret and he'd blackout. Like I remember thinking, oh my goodness, Michelle's told them all about me. She set me up. And I remember the next speaker started talking about the blackouts and the drink driver. I thought she's told them as well. Yeah, right. It was you by the end of the meeting. I realized that was just talking, I was the same as them.
SPEAKER_01Yes, that's the exact one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I knew I was thinking I'm gonna kill her.
SPEAKER_01So winding on, how did you get out of that then? And then how what that then led that to being a professional boxer?
SPEAKER_00So there was a guy there at that meeting who knew me from this gym on the Gold Coast. Okay so he came up to me afterwards, and this is another sliding door moment. It felt like he put his finger in my chest and poked me. He said, Son, there's something in you that only you can fulfill. And I'm like, Like, what do you mean? He goes, Well, there's a purpose, there's a mission, you're built for something great, and like I knew that. I just didn't know why I wasn't yeah, like I knew there was something in me, you know, the potential word, yeah, yeah. And it's like I says to him, yeah, I said to him, okay, what have I got to do? I'll do it. I like I was desperate. I had there was I'd there was no other cards in the deck I could play. It was like meaning, oh I'm like you've got my attention, yeah. You know, I tried everything and I'd end up you know in a bad spot. He goes, so all right, you want to know what to do? He goes, Yeah, I guess. Well, don't drink tonight or tomorrow and I'll see you again tomorrow at the next meeting. I said, Okay, I'll do that. But what else? What about I'm what's the magic, you know? Like, tell me. He goes, Nah, just do that. I said, I said I could do that. What else do I do? He said, shut up and listen to me. You know, and then he started to talk about self-will run riot. And I thought that was that was my life, you know. And he says, Can you read that up there? I said, Yeah, and I couldn't, right? I said, Oh, that was I've got to get on together. And he said, he said there was a there was a uh a first step written, he said that he said, uh well, it goes like um I um about being powerless over alcohol and my life had become unmanageable, and I didn't think I was powerless over alcohol because I was always stopping. I was always stopping starting again. But but when when he said that my that your life had become unmanageable, it was like I'd never seen that word before. I thought that's my life. I am unmanageable in every way, you know. So I so I did what he said. I said I didn't drink, I seen the next, and that that that that turned into a week, and that turned into a month, you know, and I'm back at the gym, and I just got totally obsessed. I was either at a meeting uh learning how to stay sober, get sober, or I was running, or I was at another meeting, or I was at the gym, then I was at another meeting, and then I was at the gym, and I literally I started doing um 14 meetings a week and I was training about eight or nine times a week.
SPEAKER_01I would just my life your your your potential was directed into an obsession for something that was going to be really good, in other words, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But but also as I went along, I realized all my character flaws, why I quit, why I spat the dummy when things weren't going my way. Yeah, all that bit, all that stuff that was undeveloped was being brought to the surface, which which all that that anger, that resentment, all that stuff was like, I'm dealing with it all sober, yeah. Which is the challenge that most people face while they go back to the drink. But I had a guy, well, he introduced me to a couple of other men, and they started to show me these rites of passages. Uh-huh. This this transition from boy to man. Yeah. And it's like at that point I realized, like when I wanted when I went traveling overseas, I remember thinking because I thought that would make a man out of me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Or I realized if I did this, if I did that, if I went there, then I'd be better, right? But so with all these different writer passages, that were things that I was endeavoring to do, although I didn't know what I was doing. That were just my instincts, you know, looking to test myself, to challenge myself, to like that's why I went to. You know, I I found out like I'm in I'm in Asia. I mean uh and a guy, I met a guy and he goes, Do you want to come to Cat Man Doo? I said, Where's that? What's that? He goes, Nepal. I said, What is that? He goes, Have you heard of Mount Everest? I said, Yeah, he said, Well, it's there. I said, I'm in. Yeah, that's that was my thinking. You know, I was looking so so anyway. When these group of guys started showing me these different things, I started they started showing me ways to actually develop myself. Yes, yeah, they took me on this masculine journey, and of course, my life, because in that first couple of months, of like you know, I was too scared to do anything apart from be at a meeting or be at the gym. Yeah, and I reached a point. I remember a few months in, I remember Michelle and I, we didn't have like we were getting food vouchers, we didn't we didn't have nothing, we couldn't, we could barely pay the rent. If we put our our checks together, we could pay the rent and get one week of food, but then the next week we didn't have food. Yeah, so it was uh anyway, I ended up getting this job washing dishes, right? It was a couple of hours of an of an eye time which didn't interrupt my training or my meetings, and I was kind of like, okay, I could do that, you know. And um, and I remember doing that for and I, you know, like anything, I just become the best dishwasher ever. And it was a great, humbling experience at the same time. But I didn't have to talk to anyone, I could do my job and and you know, get enough money to eat. Yeah, but but but because I was trained so hard, and of course, I'm I'm sure you you know what I'm talking about. When you do the right thing, the right things, the right opportunities start coming. I remember there was yeah, I got remember my coach comes in one time, it was around that time of you know, Fox Sports was kind of taken off, and he goes, Listen, mate, I can I can get you a fight on Fox Sports on TV. And I went, What? Right.
SPEAKER_01So I said, Yes, you know, yeah, I didn't get I didn't know who I was fighting, or whatever maybe is this about 30 25 years ago or so.
SPEAKER_00This would have been 96, yeah, okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_0196, 97, 96, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, 97. A couple of years into a pro career at this stage.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I I'd I think I think I'd maybe had um maybe I don't I do you know what? I don't even know. Maybe uh I'd had a handful, maybe three or four professional fights.
SPEAKER_01So, Gavin, I'm gonna interrupt from my research. You went a couple of years of being completely undefeated from 94 to 96, yeah. And then had a loss and then came back again and went another two years undefeated from what the records show. Yeah, yeah. So you got to number 13 in the world, yeah, which is quite incredible. I wish I was number 13 in the world at anything, I'd be happy to be.
SPEAKER_00Well, this this is what happened. I I I ended up um becoming the Australian champion in about 99-2000 and fought in Canada for a Commonwealth title fight. Yeah, that was just a massive step. I just kept saying yes, you know, yeah, but but what happened? What and remember this for me anyway, it's always about, I mean, you know, you would heard me say it enough times when you went through the fight like a pro. It's all if you don't develop the guy on the inside, that's right. Was it three guys? The guy I tell you I am, the guy I think I am, and the guy who lives on the inside. Yeah, so yeah, so I went from food vouchers to five years later owning four houses, yeah, um, being the Australian champion, having a couple of kids, like I had everything that I thought I could ever yeah.
SPEAKER_01So you fought a guy called Felix Sturm, yeah, went on to be world champion, I believe. That's right. Yeah, wow. What was so just quickly on that before we talk about post-career boxing, because that's really important too for this interview. Um what was the what was it like for fighting someone of his caliber, not just from a boxing boxing perspective, but from a general sport perspective. Yeah, yeah. Tell me about it.
SPEAKER_00I I I I can a couple of things I can remember, and you know, you talked about it earlier in in our interview being dangerous, you know, like sport and whatever. I can remember like it was in Berlin and it was big.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow.
SPEAKER_00I I remember yeah, being driven everywhere, being driven to interviews, uh, radio, TV. I remember being driven and seeing my picture on a massive board in Berlin, you know, like a massive billboard, you know, it was overwhelming, yes, to be honest. Yeah, but I I remember uh you know, I remember them saying it's gonna I remember we were doing different uh interviews in in oh, they'll get me doing pub work in massive shopping centers, like they really milked me to promote the dogs over there, you know, 10 days before. But I but I I I also remember the night of the fight, you know, and there's thousands of people there. It's I remember them saying estimated viewing was 12.5 million people. Wow, wow so that you know, like that's that's big.
SPEAKER_01That's a lot, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, bit of pressure. But but I remember I remember laying in the hotel waiting, you know, it's probably about eight o'clock and our fight's gonna be at you know, because on it was on uh not on, it was on like national TV, it was all through Europe, you know. Um and and I remember laying there and I and this thought come to me because I've known people that have passed away, you know, from boxing, you know, like day after the fight, though I remember having this thought like people die from this. This guy the winner out of me and him fight for the world title. Like this is yeah, it's doesn't get any bigger. I mean, not that it wasn't before, but but I remember the fear, right? Oh man, yeah, you know, I mean Robbie Quatro, great cornerman, just a great friend, a great mate. I remember him like I don't know, I said, Robbie, I'm not doing good, you know, and he starts praying, he starts saying, Come Jesus.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but's that one Rob Quatro that lives in Madrid used to live in Madruba. 100% trainer, I know. Yeah, I know him. He's an absolute legend. There you go. Wow, he was in your corner. Sorry, he was in your corner, yes.
SPEAKER_00Wow, yes, he's a legend, he's a legend. Wow, anyway. He starts to pray, and I I I I I feel the presence of God come over me. It's like this was thick, it was like whoa, and that like that wasn't the first time, you know. Uh there was all through my life, Christ has turned up that like that, and and and breathe hope into me and breathe confidence into me and breathe identity into me, you know. And of course, um yeah, did you did you win this fight? So I go out there, right? I'm in the jess room to get get uh I and I remember when we're walking out, and there's like I don't know, it was well over 10,000 people at this biggest stadium I've ever seen.
SPEAKER_01I remember the walk out was so long, yeah, it was so long, yeah, and what 10,000 people, yeah, yeah, they're all talking in German, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And just how far back all the media was around the ring, all fenced off. It was all these screens, it was amazing, you know. Yeah, and um, and I remember going out there, right? And uh we boxed around the first round because he's like 6'1, I'm I'm a little guy, yeah, you know. Uh and and I remember his because the the plan was because of his long legs was to drop buck overhand right, yeah. Okay, it's kind of one of my favorite punches, you know. Yeah, just rock bang, you know. Um anyway, so we go out there, the first round we're moving around, right? I go to drop buck and I go twinkle. What the long story short, I did my ITB. Oh no, so it's like all right. So then I'll I'm working, so I've got to change the plan. That way, so I'm dropping forward and trying to anyway. It was about four rounds in, and I thought, man, I've got to do something. Yeah, yeah, I've got to do something. He's he's too tall, he's too fast, he's you know, yeah. I'm not hobbling, but I'm I'm you know, like it's not getting better. So anyway, I um in around round five, I uh he I'm on the ropes and he sort of goes to walk away and goes bang with a jab. And I went, okay, that it hit me, but it was okay. Yeah, and he cut me eye. Yeah, and I'm like, I'm like, I bet I'll bet I've had plenty of cut eyes, and I've got so I just get on his chest and start going for it, and he gets away and he and he and he's and then the referee grows me and goes, and the blood's going into my eye.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And he goes in some kind of broken English, are you okay? I said, Yeah, fine. He says, Can you see? I said, Yeah, I can see. I couldn't see.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I'm going hammering tongue. That the end of the round, I come out for the sixth round, they got the doctor looking at me. Anyway, I go out there and then they stopped it within two. Yeah, it was just dripping. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, being a boxer. So in many ways, like it was the biggest fight, and it was probably one of the easiest fights I've ever had. It was it was wrenching to be honest.
SPEAKER_01Being a big boxing fan, and I've read loads about cuts and things. I'm look, I'm all right in saying that when it happens, I mean it sounds really horrible, but from what I've read, you don't feel the cut, you just feel the blood dripping down. Is that correct? Or do you actually correct? Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00Adrenaline's pumping, you don't feel okay. You don't feel it's it's like when you well, like when you get a broken nose, you know it's broke, yeah. But you know you're you're in the moment. That's that's one of the things that I I think uh like what's so uh I think amazing for men to learn how to fight, push themselves, test themselves, because you get in that state where it's man or man, it's it's where your best comes to the surface, yeah, it's where your ugliness comes to the surface. Yeah, it's like when I was younger, I'd make excuses, I'd blame other people, all that junk comes to the surface. That's what I think is so amazing about boxing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, you find out who you are, yeah. You find out who you are. So, yeah, post-korea. So that was obviously the the the your personal professional summit in boxing. So after career, I know a little bit about what you've done, and it a lot of it is helping other people. So, can you explain a bit what you've done since boxing please?
SPEAKER_00Well, well, why you know with those men in the early days when I first got sober, I just kept developing myself and I was just fascinated, you know, and particularly when you well, for me anyway, Michelle and I we kept having kids. So you gotta yeah, you have five daughters and two two so I've got to keep growing, I've got to keep developing myself and and getting a clearer vision. And uh so so I promised myself, and I've had other men along the way commit suicide as well, you know, in personal life, etc. Um, but I remember being uh at a mate's grave and and and he committed suicide. I remember creating an oath um that I was life is short. I created an oath that I was only ever gonna do what I love doing, unless my heart was fully engaged in it, I ain't doing it. And and that could yeah uh that might be hard for some people to go, but I guess that's the man I am. I make a decision and that's me. Totally agree.
SPEAKER_01Couldn't agree.
SPEAKER_00So so when I got out post career, um, I've already had a gym, I was already training plenty of guys. And I remember just the same, and I started talking to men about well, I'm always talking about what I love, what I'm passionate about, these rights of passengers. So that's when I in Um I just I got a list of about 20 odd guys that I thought that had never had a fight. I thought run through 10 weeks and then we'll have a fight night. And I remember I had this list, right? And and 18 of them said, when do we start?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like I thought, oh wow, this could turn into maybe something once a year. And I remember about halfway through it, out of these 18 guys, all their mates were saying to me, When's the next one start? Yeah, yeah. I'm like, first of all, I didn't know there was a next one, but then literally we done that in 2009, and we ended up doing about uh we were doing four a year, then we went to five. You know, there was a spot there where we done like 24, we had 24 events at the casino, like in four and a half years. We just didn't it just didn't stop until well didn't until about um 2000 uh 2019. So we did like 10, 11 years, just man, overlapping groups, yeah. But what was really what I learned through one of the things I learned there come out of it was in about 2017, there was a lot of guys. Well, there was quite a there was a handful of guys who flew up from Melbourne and did the 10 weeks or from Sydney. I remember there's one guy who was flying up literally every a day a week and would do a massive session and go back to the same day. So, but I remember one of the guys um who came, you know, you know what it's like you have an event, people fly from everywhere, you know. So they what you're fighting, you know, what the heck? I'm coming to it. So um, so I remember there was a one uh uh guy who did the program and he said, I remember that guy who came up, he came to the gym, he came to the event, went back to Sydney. Well, he committed suicide a couple of days ago. And I was like, What? And he really wanted to do it, you know. And um, so it really got me. It's like what? So that's when I I I I first wrote um the Rite of Passage, yeah. So that was like in 2017. I wrote that, and literally out of anger, resentment, it just sort of all come out of me in one night. Like, I don't know whether you know it or not, but I'll say it anyway, because I was illiterate, I never learned to read and write. So I I I I was uh you know, don't let anything stop it. I wrote my first book before I could even read. You know, and a few years ago I found it out of how I needed glasses, I'm dyslexic and what have you. So I'm getting better, you know, I'm still young. But but in 2019, I I I thought I felt like God was saying, you gotta change, you gotta you gotta be able to reach more men, you know. Although men were traveling, everything was in person, you know. So it was like uh I didn't know what to do. But along along that journey, I was there was things that were being refined and developed, and and for for many years I would get up at these events, yeah, you know, and and um I remember a lot of people thought they were coming to a boxing event, and and I'll read this out. Um uh because I'd always start the event with uh because you know, I didn't know, I mean, you know, you don't know anyone, everyone's there's friends and family coming, but I'd I'd generally endeavor to turn all the lights off, depending on what venue we're in, put the spotlight on me, and this is what I'd say I'd say, my name is Gavin Lance Top, and I have a dream. My dream is that every male would know there is a masculine journey to be taken, that every man would pass the test of manhood so he would know that he is enough, that every wife would feel the unconditional love of a husband, every daughter would know what a real man looks like, and every child would feel the love of a father. My dream is that every man would live a life of adventure that would inspire those around him, that it that every man would have the courage to fight for what is right and just, and that every man would know his purpose is to raise other men up. So that's my dream for these men tonight. That's my dream for this city, that's my dream for this nation, that's my dream for Western culture. And I was saying that for years, but I didn't know how I was gonna do it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so when are you running for prime minister?
SPEAKER_00So so so I mean, yeah, you know, so when I I I so then when 2019 I closed that gym, I we we put that that book online, yes, and as an e-book, you know, and people men started buying it, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then and then like one a day, three a day, ten a day, it's like what the heck?
SPEAKER_01And then they found their identity through it.
SPEAKER_00Well, I don't well, I don't know, yeah, like everyone was different, but what was really unique? Well, what I remember because I I like back in those days, well, I'm still really not now very uh IT savage or anything, but but I remember the remember the good the guys who were helping me with it, they said there's all these most like 90% of the books are selling between 1 and 3 a.m. in the morning. Like there's a glitch, but but but I I just was I had a bit of time, right? So I thought I'm gonna take three months off. So I just had some time. So I started ringing a couple of these people that have purchased books, but the truth was they were awake in the middle of the night, yeah, and I'll get on Facebook and then I'll we're they'll find the book, yeah. Right, and and and yeah, it's like it's like so bloke started emailing me and go, Gav, I've read the book. What's next? And I went, I don't know, I went, read the book again and I'll get back to you. So I literally come down to my office, got a camera, and made four or five videos and put a like a little thing together to help them.
SPEAKER_01Everything's learned. Is this man alive?
SPEAKER_00So this this was I didn't know what it was at the time. Yeah, this I didn't didn't have a name for it. I guess that men needed help and support, yeah. So I just started so so then then I the 10 weeks, all the stories I was told. I made I put yeah, made 10 weeks of videos, yeah, and then questions, and then all of a sudden I remember and then still do a Zoom call every week, and the same thing was happening. Men were getting getting a better perspective on life, they were they were they were their marriages were getting better, they their businesses were doubling, they were they were they were becoming uh adventurous, their relationship with the kids were getting better, and even they were getting fitter because it was nothing to do with boxing, it was always about what you dream and who you need to become, you know. Yeah so so the same thing was happening, men would keep coming, you know. The 10 weeks wasn't enough. So then we I wrote another book called The Man Alive, you know, and and then that was like a 21-day thing that you do as well, but then I create I realized, well, uh everything I've already known it, you're not gonna nail certain things in 10 weeks. So then we make it a one-year program, and then and then all of a sudden, um my team sort of said, wonder how the book would go in America. Right.
SPEAKER_03Well, I don't know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So all I remember doing a Zoom call and just saying, yeah, remember, I remember having the gym, and I remember when people would travel from the other end of the coast to come train at my gym. I remember when there was yeah, but I remember looking at that Zoom call when I was on the 10 weeks online. I remember that, I remember that one point where there was men from every state and territory. Thought, my goodness, and then I remember we started advertising the book overseas, and then I remember America, Canada, UK. So I what the heck? I thought that that dream that I had, it's coming true.
SPEAKER_01Sure, yeah, amazing stuff, guys.
SPEAKER_00And I didn't know what, like, like it was just you know, I this is what I always say life, it's either life's an epic adventure or it's not. Yeah, we're gonna and I think as men, as husbands, as fathers, as leaders, man, you know, it's like back when I was 22 and that at that meeting, and they that guy goes, Son, there's something in you that only you can fulfill as a mission.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, obviously then. So you this mission is unfolding and you haven't finished yet, you've got another 100 years to go before you stop, no doubt. Um, no, more what do you what do you get from this? I mean, I know the answer, but obviously for the listeners and viewers, what do you get from this? What personally, how does it make you feel when you help other people improve their lives?
SPEAKER_00Well, I I I suppose I'll let me I'll I'll answer that, but one thing that particularly when men go through the man life experience, which is happening to me as well, by the way, you know, when you get on purpose and on mission, what you realize, you know, one of the key uh questions that we ask when you start to understand your purpose, or one of the key questions is do you know how to do it? And if the answer is yes, well, you're thinking way too small. The correct answer is it's that big, man. Who do I? I don't know how to do it. Who do I need to become? Who do I need to partner with? Who so so the you must grow? Yeah, you must be a lifelong learner. You must so so one of the biggest things is that that that's happened to me personally. Like say, what do I get out of it? I realize I've been thinking way too small, yeah. Like even the fact even the fact now, like we've got men doing our online programs, you know, from New Zealand to Alaska. Wow, like I I'm thinking, is there bigger than that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like I I am just so humbled to think that God would use a misfit like me. Yeah, I I but but this is what I've learned with you know, we've had like in the last few years, we've had, you know, I mean, we've sold 20. That that book that I that I wrote out of anger and frustration and just trying to serve someone has sold over 25,000 copies. Wow. That's just la I don't know what it's up to now. That was last year, you know. We've had like over 3,000 men go through our online programs, like it's extra like it's amazing that I get to be used like this, that God chose uh a misfit. Oh rage. But but I but I but I guess I I kind of realize why he did. Because if he can do something like that in me, he can do something like that in John, in Martin, in the people listening, like but but I and one thing that I'm always talking about is is courage. You know, it's about doing things you've never done before, it's about having the guts to step up and say yes, despite of the circumstances, despite how the terrain looks, despite of the economy, despite of what people say, it does you know, I the amount of time I remember, this I remember when in the boxing days, I remember it happened to me a couple of times in 2018 and 19 when I was doing that program, boxing program, and I remember this is where I knew I got to change, and I got to change my circle, right? People who were close to me were say started saying, What are you gonna do when you run out of men? And I remember thinking, I remember there, I thought there was about four billion men. Exactly. Yes, yeah, yeah, but that's when I knew, hang on, I gotta change here. Yeah, I'm I'm getting comfortable. People around me are comfortable, you know. So, you know, there there's been moments like that, but it takes to courage to step out into the wind up a little bit.
SPEAKER_01What else do you want to say? I mean, I want to say promote something, go for it, buddy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, great. Well, I would say what I what I've made in there, one thing I've made is I mean, obviously I've got those ebooks there. Yeah, and uh do you have a link uh there you can put in or you can like whatever?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely, mate.
SPEAKER_00No problem but if you go to gavintop, double p gavintop.com, there's there's um there's a giveaway even there, the eight biggest mistakes successful men are making. Okay, and I guarantee you you you go through these eight mistakes, you'll be making. I mean, I don't want to make so I don't know exactly, but nobody's never not made mistakes. And you know, it's like you've only got to be one degree off, and a year later, a decade later, you are so far off track. And I think that's why men are marriages are breaking down, that's why their health is, you know, all sorts of health issues, relationship issues, because it's just that one degree off. So if you go to gavintop.com, please look at the eight biggest mistakes successful men are making. Even puts, even put your friends' email in, and it'll get it'll get access to it. Obviously, I've got a much smarter team than me.
SPEAKER_01It's automated, it will be sent to you. Gavin, we're we're gonna promote the crap out of this, and I'll tell you what, it's been an unbelievable pleasure yet again, inspiring as always. We're gonna catch up for that cup of tea soon. Yes, all right, mate. And uh look, it's been brilliant talking to you, mate.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, pleasure, mate. You guys are amazing.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. See ya