Child's Voice: Rescuing girls from trafficking in war torn Uganda

The humble beginning of Child's Voice is a beautiful story of an obedient heart to meet a need. The Mandsager family has made it their mission to rescue, support and educate (especially girls) in Uganda from trafficking.  Their home base is in New Hampshire, their hearts are in Uganda. 

Our interview with now CEO, Nathan Mandsager, has been associated with ChildVoice from the very beginning, accompanying his father, ChildVoice founder Conrad Mandsager, on the first exploratory trip to northern Uganda in 2006 when the rebel army was still engaged in humanitarian atrocities in the region. Nathan’s passion for the mission of restoring the voices of children silenced by war has allowed him to play a role with ChildVoice in a variety of ways over the years: leading mission teams, engaging partners, fundraising, board leadership, and now serving as CEO.   www.childsvoice.org to learn more and to donate. 

Welcome to the BRAVE pod

Where we have conversations that matter to grow a task force that fights against the spiritual trafficking of our girls. We are Bold Redeemed Anointed Victorious and Eternal and it’s race against the enemy for her heart. The time is now to go on the Great Rescue, I am your host Amber Johns, let’s talk about it. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:25

All right. So welcome to the Brave Podcast. And we have Nathan Monsagger with us. We are actually recording in January, which is Human Trafficking Awareness Month. So this is a super fitting conversation to be had, a hard conversation, but um, you know, just a beautiful thing that you're doing. I know it's there's so many things that people don't know and don't see, but if you don't mind, um, Nathan, just give us a little background as to who you are and what child voice is and does.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Yeah. Well, I appreciate the opportunity to be on with you and to to share and talk about what we do. And uh it's always an honor to have those kinds of opportunities, whether it's on a podcast like this or some other venue. Um I think you and I and your husband, we all met. Uh it's going back a ways now, but uh had some years. So uh we connected through FCA originally, and um, you know, life has changed over the last few years. And um I've been at Child Voice full-time uh in my position for going on three years now, which is crazy to think how quickly that's gone by. But um yeah, Child Voice is uh a nonprofit that uh we just entered our 20th year, which is crazy to think about what God has done over these last 20 years. But my dad founded the organization back in 2006, and our our vision and our mission is to restore the voices of children silenced by war. Um, there is more areas of war and conflict globally right now than at any other time in history since World War II. And uh, as we know from scripture and as we know from the news headlines, it's it's not getting any better. Um and so in the the crosshairs of all those kinds of conflicts and the um global issues, the regional issues that lead to these kinds of conflicts that are happening around the world, uh, right in the center of those most affected often are children and um women and children in particular. And so uh we have been about the business of trying to work with kids in some of the most traumatic and dark places in the world to bring the hope and healing that they need over a long period of time and give them the counseling, the discipleship, the support, the vocational training, the skill training that they need to not just survive, but to thrive in the future, uh in raising their families, in becoming community leaders, and in hopefully not getting caught into the cycle of war and conflict again in the future. Um and so we've seen a lot of really amazing things happen uh over these last 20 years. It is by no means an easy process and uh not without its pain and and suffering in the journey. Uh, but God has been good and he's teaching us things all along along the way. So um, yeah, just uh a bit more about my background, uh, most important, um, aside from my relationship with Jesus, is uh my wife and I just celebrated 25 years of marriage last year. Um we have two uh amazing adult kids. Uh my son is uh 24, going on 25. Uh he's uh in law enforcement, he's a police officer in the city in which he was born and raised in upstate New York. Uh he's married to Courtney. Um they're almost three years into their marriage, and most importantly, uh we have a nearly two-year-old granddaughter, uh Stella, who is amazing. Uh, it's great to be a parent, but it's better to be a grandparent, I'll say that.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

So that that's awesome. And then my daughter is 20. Uh, she's based now in New Hampshire with us, where our uh we live, and um she's doing well and tackling the world. And yeah, God's been God's been really good to us. Um and uh we uh we were in upstate New York for about 25 years where we raised our kids, and then uh a few years ago I had the opportunity to step into a role with Child Voice. Um, and we made the transition to New Hampshire where we have a small uh office and a small team here in the U.S. But uh our primary work as an organization happens in the field in northern Uganda and in northeast Nigeria, where we serve uh a couple thousand beneficiaries in those two locations each year. And then we've uh recently in the last two years have started working with some churches and partners in Ukraine as well. And uh yeah, so that's a quick snapshot of of who we are and what we're about.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Yeah, that's yeah, it's amazing. Um, ironically, my son went into law enforcement as well.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

So yeah, pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Um yeah, so I mean, I guess when I when I listen to you, and I I don't think I'm the only one, like you hear that, it just seems like a whole nother world, Uganda, Nigeria. Like, how does uh you know, like a small organization that's founded like in New Hampshire get into these places? Like, what does that look like for you guys? I'm sure you traveled to Uganda. Like, how do you even start those relationships to get that to build that trust to now what you have now, which you know it's it's a full-on operation of what you do with so can you just like just touch base on how did you even get started? Like, how did those roots even begin in those days?

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Well, it's a pretty wild story. Um, and you know, God has a a way of doing pretty wild things when people are available to to be used by him. And so back in 2005, 2006, my dad had a long history in the nonprofit world. Uh, he worked for uh prison fellowship uh for quite some time, and then with Johnny and Friends Ministries out based in Southern California, uh Johnny Erickson taught us. So we we've you know, uh growing up as a kid, I was I didn't even know the experiences I had until much later in life. But we we got to interact with guys, legends like Chuck Colson and Johnny Erickson and some of those uh global leaders in the Christian world uh back in the the 80s and 90s and on into today. So my dad had that kind of experience, and then he was uh he had shifted into private consulting uh for some time, and that's what led to my parents moving to New Hampshire uh about 30 years ago. And you know, with his connections overseas, he had friends that worked for Save the Children and other big NGOs. And uh back in 2005, he was connecting with a friend of his who was based in the UK but was doing work for Save the Children in Africa, and they they were just catching up one time, and and this guy, Ian, was was talking about the worst humanitarian crisis in the world at that point, which was the rebel war that had been ongoing for 20 plus years in northern Uganda. And when he began to describe the situation, particularly for kids and how they were being affected by that ongoing protracted war in the north, uh, with upwards of estimates or upwards of 80 to 100,000 kids had been abducted by the rebels over that that um that conflict. And then hundreds of thousands of more kids were affected, just trying to stay safe from the rebels um in that region. And so, long story short, um my dad shared with me a little bit about the situation. At the time, I was a pastor at a local church in upstate New York and uh had been involved in our church's global missions work in different parts of the world. And it was at that time that a documentary film had come out called Invisible Children, which a lot of people I mean, it it a lot of people got a hold of it, and it really told the story of what was happening in South Sudan in northern Uganda at the time. And I watched it, went home to my parents' house for Christmas in 2005, and my dad showed me the documentary, which is not a fun film to watch at Christmas time. Um but uh I watched it and I brought it back to our elders at our church uh in New York, and they said, You should go check out what's happening and see what we might be able to do. And so my dad and I went on a trip in early 2006 to northern Uganda. We had some connections um there on the ground that helped us get to northern Uganda, which was pretty wild because no one in southern Uganda was even willing to go north during that time because of the conflict that was happening. And we got to meet a lot of people, see the organizations on the ground, and uh just try to identify what God might be telling us or what he would want us to do. Um, and so on the way back from that trip, um, Child Voice was born. My dad had really no idea what what to do or what it was gonna look like. We definitely saw a need in particular for long-term support for girls coming back from captivity or uh escaping from captivity. Um these were girls that were uh anywhere between the ages of 12 and 18, 19 years old. Um, most of them had either been abducted by the rebels or had uh been born in captivity and had become um wives to rebel commanders, and so they were coming back to society with what was termed a rebel baby at the time. And then because of the atrocities, many of these kids were forced to um play a part in, um they excuse me, they were not welcome back in their communities. And so Child Voice was was started in 2006 with the idea that we could serve a small group of girls, 30 girls and their children, over an 18 to 24-month program in an intense um kind of boarding school model where they would come and live and have all the support and counseling and discipleship and skills training that they needed, with the ultimate goal that they would then leave our program, transition back to their communities. We'd work on reconciling relationships uh with families and their communities. And then we would support them for the next three to five years in our aftercare model, um, supporting them with coaching and ongoing counseling and that sort of thing. And so that's that's where it started. Um obviously, as that war came to an end in in the next uh three to five years, the the landscape in northern Uganda continued to change. Um, obviously, in any kind of war um or conflict zone, it it's not just culture is completely decimated. And so for years, it wasn't just kids that were being abducted by the rebels, but the entire population in northern Uganda was forced to live in internally displaced uh camps. It was the only way the government could protect them from the rebels. But that uh over time just tears away at culture, at land ownership, at agriculture, all the things. And so even though the war was technically over, there was still a couple decades worth of rebuilding, uh, not only at the community level, but the individual level as well. And so uh for the next 10 years or so, we were still serving uh girls that had been abducted, had been in the bush with the rebels, and that continued on. And then um over time we began to see some things shifting where um in probably around 2016-2017, we were looking to launch a similar program for boys in South Sudan where conflict had been ongoing for some time. And after getting uh land built or developed and uh program outlines, staff hired, then the conflict there just blew up again and we had to leave the country. And um it was at that point we realized there was uh close to a million refugees flooding into Uganda from South Sudan, from Democratic Republic of Congo, South uh Sudan as well, other places around that region. And so we shifted our model. We took this um uh residential type model and uh transferred it into a community-based model in the refugee camp where we could serve a lot more kids um at one time, um, but we didn't have to, we didn't have the residential component to it. Um and so that has been really successful, and that's really where we see our future is in the refugee and internally displaced population uh settings in the future. Um but it's it's been a it's been a journey. It's been we're not a huge organization by any stretch. Um but as we've entered our 20th year now, and we we then sorry, I'll backtrack a little bit. So back in 2017, we started in the refugee um settlement in northern Uganda, and then we replicated that model in northeast Nigeria in 2018. So we have these kind of two main hubs in Africa that we have. Um, one of the key aspects of our model is that though we did a lot of work in the early days to set things up, our ultimate goal always was to hire and empower national staff to do the work. And so uh I think that's one thing we're most proud about is is the way that God has brought such high-quality people to our organization over the years. Uh, we have about 40, 45 staff in Uganda now, all nationals, um, led by our country director, who was the first employee we ever hired, and he's kind of worked his way up over the last 20 years into that position. And then the same thing in Nigeria, we have about 23, 24 staff, all nationals running the programs there. And so our role here in the U.S. is is we have a small team of about two, three full-time staff, and then a few part-timers. Our goal is to raise the resources to make the mission happen in those places. So um, yeah, it's been uh it's been quite a journey. Um, obviously, working with kids that are coming from the backgrounds they come from, it's it's not always clean and easy. You can have a great program structure, but we really pride ourselves on um customizing or individualizing our program and our plans around each individual so that these girls and and now boys that are in our programs really have the the pathway that is best for them for their futures and not prescribed by our particular needs or desires or you know, uh a rigid program structure, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Yeah, no, that's amazing because right, every every human being is so different. So yeah, um, I mean that's amazing. I don't think I I knew all of that just coming into like even understanding what child's voice was a couple years ago. So um, and I'm I'm sure there's so many challenges, funding being one of them. Sure. But on the emotional level, like what you see, I mean, what you know, and I love that you use you know the nationals there, you know, that are on the ground doing the work, like I feel like many times we are unaware over here, you know, there's so much going on in day-to-day life, and like, you know, how can we think of one more thing? But I think it's so important to be aware of what is going on, you know, to especially young girls. I mean, you know, like that that's always been my heart, but to to see what they're going through and then to kind of look left and right in the United States of America and I don't know, perspective shifts very, very quickly. What are some things that have been you know, especially in relationship to God, like you know, He sees it? What is that struggle that living in that tension of what is now and what is to come with just some of the things that you have seen emotionally that have maybe have been really hard for you to stay the course? You know, I always think of that verse, you know, do not grow weary, you know. But how how do you do that? And what are some things that maybe it brought you to the brink of like, I think uh I think I'm pretty tired. Like this is hard. I'm gonna assume maybe you have once or twice, but maybe like last week.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

Uh no.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Like yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

Yeah, exactly. So yeah, I was talking to uh a friend, actually, it was a a new donor uh to our organization. I I had a meeting with him earlier this week. So he's he's new to us, still wrapping his head around the work that we do and and how he can best support us in the future and things like that. And you know, it's it is hard. And and I think one thing that I've learned uh let's just say on the fundraising side and engaging with donors and church partners and that sort of thing here in the States is that you have being a part of an organization that does international work, you have to accept the fact that we're in general farther down the priority list. It doesn't matter how generous most people are or how faithful they are in giving, for it's human nature to be committed to your local church, committed to your own community and those kinds of efforts or nationally or regionally. Um, and so when you when you when we are presenting the needs of of what we do and the kids that we serve in places that seem almost on another planet, um you have to try to you have to understand that we are probably one of many for a very few number of people in our network, um we're not the number one don't uh charity that they support. We're farther down the priority list. So we have to communicate appropriately, we have to engage people um where they're at and not have expectations. You know, we're not uh an entity that's trying to uh you know change legislation or anything like that. So so it's really getting people to understand that from a human perspective, doesn't matter color of skin, doesn't matter nationality or language or even geographically where people are around the world, that especially from a uh biblical Christ-based perspective, we everybody's made in the image of God. And these kids are just as valuable as our own children or those in our kids' networks or schools or sports teams. Um and and you just gotta you gotta stay at it, I guess, in getting the message out there and sharing their stories to the best of with with dignity and respect and integrity, but sharing their stories is so that people do understand what's happening.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Um, it is yeah, it can be draining at times on that front. And then it can be draining knowing what's happening and knowing what some of these kids have gone through. Um, you know, I think for me, some of it was the timing of uh joining the organization full-time, but I was in 2023 is when I started full-time. And in my second trip to Uganda that year, um, we were in the refugee settlement, and our staff brought me to meet one of the young girls they had just connected to. And Kissimi was uh she's a refugee from DRC from Eastern Congo, and um she was uh living in a small hut with her two small children. And when I heard her story and understood the the context and environment in which she was currently living, it it was it was one of those situations where our staff was trying to compel me. They needed to do something because they felt such such a responsibility for her. And I needed to understand what how to bring her story back so that we could really care for her well. Well, uh, she was married, and I'll use quotation marks. Um, obviously, in these cultures, um, relationships often start young, and sometimes they are by choice, and oftentimes they are not. I don't know how she ended up with her husband, but she was probably 14 when she got married to him. Um and the rebels in eastern Congo uh attacked their village, and she witnessed her husband being killed in front of her, and she escaped at that point. Was pregnant and had a small child. And so she escaped and made her way. I don't even know the mileage, but it's a couple hundred miles of escaping from their village and made it into Uganda to the refugee settlement there. And when she arrives to a place like this, it's much different today because international funding has been slashed dramatically. But when she came a couple of years ago, uh, she's given a bag of uh millet or corn maize or something like that, uh, a tarp, and she's given a piece of property, a land piece of land to go and build a hut, basically. Um, and so oftentimes in a in a situation like this, she would first dig a hole in the ground, use the tarp as a covering where they would stay while she's building a hut next to where this hole in the ground is. So uh let's just say deplorable conditions, um, safety concerns for at that time, I think she was 16 or 17 when she arrived in the country. She now has two small children, and she's she has no family whatsoever. Oftentimes refugees do come in family units or with people that they know, uh, kinship uh relationships, things like that. Uh, she was alone. The the closest thing she had was that she was around some other Congolese refugees. So she she got settled, she had a hut. When I met her um that September, she did not have a door on the hut. Uh they had one mattress that they were sharing, and she had just started in our program there. And uh anyways, it the first step was we needed to get her hut secured so we got a door put on for her so she could lock it at night and not have to be under constant threat of abuse or being taken advantage of. Um, and then what we currently have in place, we have our refugee program, and then we still have our residential program. And so she was a prime candidate to be um to go to our residential program because of the high level of vulnerability and trauma she had been through. And so uh that was September. In March of the following year, she moved to our residential program uh with her two kids. Um, and just when was it? Uh early or sorry, late last year, so late 2025, she graduated from that program in December. Sorry, it was in December. She just graduated and she has relocated back to the MVEPI refugee settlement. Um, obviously, our team and some other partners that we work with uh got her set up in a much better housing situation near a school where her kids are going to be able to go to school. And uh for right now, she's actually contracted as one of our community mobilizers uh working to uh support some of the other Congolese refugees that we work with. So it it's a for me, it was one of those stories where one of those real life situations where I'll be honest, even with all the success we've had over the years, even with all the program structures, the staff that we have, there's some some cases like this with Kissimi where you don't know what you can do. Like, what uh what can I do? This white guy from America, yes, we have great programs, yes, we have great staff, but it's like an insurmountable mountain in front of her that she's gotta traverse. And we can give her some of the tools that she needs, but at the end of the day, she's got to be the one that really walks the journey out. And so far, she's done really well, and her kids are thriving and they're healthy. Um, and at the end of the day, those are some of the stories over the next few years as we continue to support her and walk out, walk this journey with her. That when she's able to earn the money through jobs or agriculture or whatever, that she's able to pay for her own kids' school fees and get them through school. Those are the those are the things that are transformational. They're generation uh impacting in so many different ways. We also had a a girl um just this past year that I or sorry, two ladies actually. Um Beatrice is one of our employees in northern Uganda. She's been with us for about 10 years, but she was in the very first class of girls in 2006, 2007. She was had been abducted by the the rebel army and went through our program, did really well, um, had some rough spots along the way, but she she did well. Her little girl Oliver was with her at the center and went through the program and everything. Um, well, I I got the chance to interview her and her daughter. Oliver's now a young lady in her 20s now. I got to interview them last year. And Beatrice is just so grateful that she was has been able to be a part of Child Voice, that she has a viable employment with us that's paying the bills, and she was able to pay for Oliver to go through school and technical school after that. Well, we were then able to hire Oliver as our tailoring instructor at our program. And it was just such a cool full circle experience to see after more than 10 years, um, not only has Beatrice uh done really well for herself, she's a very quiet, now a little bit older lady, but to see her daughter who's gone through schooling, who's uh a young professional, and now is at back at the very center where she grew up as a little kid for those couple of years, and she's investing in the girls that are now going through the program, including someone like Kasimi. It's just that's what we hope to see happen, you know, a thousand times over in the years to come.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Right. I mean, that's gotta that's gotta be so rewarding. And also, do you just sometimes look around and be like, there's so many more? Like it is it just, I mean, I kind of think like you kind of live in that tension always of joy and grief. Like, I I don't know a better way to think of it, but yeah, um how how you know, with your relationship with Jesus, like I don't know how to word this because it wasn't a question I was planning on asking, but I think I maybe for my own benefit because I would struggle. Like, do you wrestle with what you see, which you've used the word atrocities, I would say horrors, and then just his goodness and faithfulness. Like, are there days that you just you're like, God, what are you doing in hand? Or, you know, I mean, I'm sure there is, but can you walk through that? Like, how because obviously, you know, you're faithful, you see these good things, right? And we need them, but I would think most of it is really just really hard, like all the time, and then you get these little little bits that keep you there.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

So, how do you like what does your faith journey look like as you walk with Jesus through this? And how have you grown in that?

SPEAKER_00 29:47

Yeah, uh, you know, I don't know whether it's you know, traditional church ministry type things or in this kind of Christian ministry type work. I don't know how people do it without number one, having a spouse that is, I mean, my wife, even just this week, her words of encouragement in the midst of some real challenging situations and things that we're facing in our work. If I didn't have her, I don't know what I'd do. But I also don't know how people kind of, and I've heard stories about this where they kind of clock in, they do the whole Jesus thing, but they're they don't have a vibrant, desperate relationship with the God of the universe. I I can't do I know I'll say I can't do each day without having good deep time with the Lord in prayer and study, um, just consuming his word throughout the week because I I just get beat up. I maybe I'm just not strong enough or whatever, but the the weight of what you know, and for me, because of my role, the indirect responsibilities I have alongside my staff who's on the ground who have the direct responsibilities, like I don't know how how you do that and survive and make it long term if you don't have that kind of depth of relationship and desperation for his presence in your life. And, you know, there's certainly, I mean, I can't even name the or count the number of times I've been on the ground in Uganda or been back here in the US, and you're just kind of on the floor in a mess emotionally going, uh, what do I do? How how do I do this? I mean, I even remember I was on a trip with my dad way back in the early days before obviously I was uh deeply involved with child voice, but our church was involved, and so there was ways that I could uh be on the ground with him a couple times. And this was probably back in 2008, 2009. So it was early, and we didn't have money, we didn't have uh really a clear strategy on how to sustain this thing long term, and yet what was in front of us was not just a couple of girls in need, but thousands, and you're like, what do we do? Like you just feel completely overwhelmed, and I guess when you see whether it's the horrors you see and the the trauma the trauma on these kids that's been inflicted, and you don't have answers, or it's just the sheer number and you don't have answers. Either way, there's like this two-sided coin of being grateful that you get to be a part of it in some way. And on the other side, saying, God, I can't do this without you. And in and through it, somehow you're gonna teach me, you're gonna use me, you're gonna show me more of your character and your mission in the world. Um, and so it's it is that tension. I mean, that's one of the favorite words I use is there's a tension in this kind of work all the time. And I think there should be an any believer's journey. There's a tension because between the the already but not yet. We know what our future is, but we live in a broken and fractured and oftentimes really dark and evil world. And yet in it and through it, God can do some things that we never could have imagined, and he can teach us some things. And there I think we also have to be really open to the fact that we're not gonna know. We're not gonna know the final result, we're not gonna understand the whys. And we if we're looking for final answers from the Lord on why something is happening or why this had to happen to Cassimi, or you know, fill in the blank anybody's name that goes through anything in this world, we're probably not gonna get a clear answer until eternity. And even then, we're gonna be more distracted with worshiping the living king of all time rather than getting the answers that we think we need. Um, so I don't know if that answers your question.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Yeah, no, I think it's just really confirming because even if we're not dealing necessarily with something as maybe as dark as this, I think that tension we struggle with because it's like, well, we want an answer so we can then he's like, Well, I want you to just obey me because everybody that I'm good and I'm and it's coming. We we talk about that a lot. Um, I think it's it's always the number one question, you know, why pain and suffering. It's just more infatuated with the God than you know, the answers that you think you deserve. And it's it's so good, but it that's hard. Like it's easy to say until you're facing a little girl who's been hurt, you know. And that's you know, and that's my that's my heart too. It's it's a little bit different, you know, here. Like we always talk about, you know, the trafficking of our souls, you know, more so it's I think that's a different type of trafficking in the United States, even though it's a problem here as well. Um, what would you say as we kind of close out? Is there a misconception? Like when you are talking to people, whether it be a donor or you're just sharing their story, is there here in the United States a misconception of human trafficking? Like, do we do you find that there's kind of some holes in our our theories or what we think it is versus what actually is really happening?

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Well I guess because of the perspective we have at Child Voice, um, I think one of the misconceptions is that the reality that trafficking happens at a magnitude and in different ways in places around the world when um extreme poverty is mixed into everything, and then you add on top of that some kind of war or conflict that's happening. So, you know, I it so if someone has grown up in extreme poverty in rural Africa, for instance, um, you know, for them to be displaced in a moment, to be forced out of their home, to go into a refugee settlement from a logistical or uh asset background, to leave a hut is not as damaging as leaving a house that has all your stuff in it, right? But the the level of risk those people are at, those kids are at when they have to move into those places. Because you know, in refugee settlements in northern Uganda, for instance, 80% of those arriving into those settlements are women and children. So now you're into a place that has uh a much smaller number of males available in that community to protect, to provide, to care for. And so oftentimes women and children, like the story of Kissimi, if you don't have a door on your hut, you're that much more accessible to those who are coming in with evil intentions. Um, and then when you're in a desperate state, whether it's right or wrong, sometimes you make desperate decisions. And so whether that, as we've heard, I'm sure, over and over again, you know, we can have judgments all we want about families making decisions to sell their child into some kind of slavery or, you know, uh work. Um at the end of the day, we're not in that position. And we probably never have to be into in that kind of desperate position. So I I think it's wrong. I'm not saying that's right. I'm just saying that we we in the West will likely never be put in that position. Um, and so I think we we need to have my my heart would be for us when we think about trafficking, especially in these places around the world where there are no resources, you know, uh legal systems are probably not functioning at a high level or effectively or rightly for that matter. And then you layer on top of that some kind of conflict that often, you know, most of the kids that we work with have either had parents killed in conflict, they've been victims of the conflict themselves, or their community is decimated by the conflict. And so all of those pieces just um amplify the risk that they're in to either have to choose to make a desperate choice, whether it's prostitution or whatever it might be, or by no choice of their own, they they end up in those kinds of situations. And so, you know, whether it's in, I mean, I was just looking at some stats recently that um in Nigeria, for instance, where we've been working, uh estimates, and again, estimates is all they can really make because it's so hard to track some of this stuff. But approximately a million people, uh mostly women and children, are trafficked annually in Nigeria alone, within that country. Um, and then you look at where we work in Uganda, where you have refugees coming in from South Sudan and Sudan and Congo, and you know, I shared Kasimi's story at any point along that journey where she was trying to escape with the horror of what she just witnessed, and now trying to build a life for herself, anywhere along that line, she could have been snatched up. Um and and honestly, we still know she's she's been in our program a couple years, and yet she's gone through tr trauma counseling, and she may not ever disclose if anything was done to her, you know. And so, yeah, I I think um I think it's just uh part of the misconceptions is it's so easy when we look at at kids from a different place, it's so far away, they're a different color than me, they're a different culture than me. It's just easy for us to kind of close off. And unfortunately, you know, when when I first came across what was happening in northern Uganda in 2006, and I watched that um uh Invisible Children documentary, it was shocking. We're now 20 years later. Uh technology has changed significantly, and one of the downfalls of technology is it has oh, what's the right word? It's deadened us to the reality of people's plight in the world. Because those things that will get emotional when we see something pop across our screen or we get onto an algorithm and we're suddenly seeing some things until the next football game comes along, and now that's in our algorithm and we've forgotten completely. So, you know, there there's obviously benefits to the technology and the day and age we're in. Um, but I think one of the downsides of it is it we're we're more global culture than ever before, and yet we're probably less relationally caring and connected than ever before.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

Yeah. I yeah, I hear exactly what you're saying because I I think guilt is charged too sometimes, you know, like you're scrolling, see it over and over and over again. So you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it. You know, um, how can people, I mean, we'll link back to to your site. Um, how can people get invested? I also know, and I I don't know if we were gonna touch it or not, but you have like the Thrivant project, like there's several ways people can help um with you guys. What are some things? Obviously, funding. Okay, like if you have the finances to give um and God has put it on your heart to do so, um, link back to your site. There's a place to donate online. Sure. Um, what are some other ways that people can come alongside you guys?

SPEAKER_00 42:01

Yeah, so uh, you know, just alluding back to uh what I shared earlier, you know, acknowledging the fact that our primary uh audiences here in the states in the US or in the West, let's say that. Um, you know, 99% of folks that see this, hear this, hear about child voice are not gonna be on the ground someday in in a refugee settlement in northern Uganda. Maybe there are some, and that's a great experience that um uh very rarely do you ever go and do anything that you feel like was of of significance, but you come back changed because you've now seen and felt and talked to um and learned from um folks on the ground. So that's always a way uh to consider going in some way and and getting your feet dirty in that way. It changes you, it just does. I would also say um, because of I mean, we need for us to continue to grow and expand, we're being asked all the time to get into new refugee settings or new communities, new countries of conflict where conflict is happening. So we need, you know, 10 times more in our network. But the only way we as a small organization can do that is through those that we're connected to, sharing our story for us, being ambassadors for who we are. And that doesn't mean you have to know everything, but to be able to watch this episode or to go on our website and grab a few pieces and then talk about it, share it, share us on social media, you know, things like that. I think that level, I was just in meetings this morning and we're talking about some big fundraising events that we're looking at this year. And I said to these guys, you're committed to us, but you also have your own networks. Who can you refer us to? It doesn't mean you have to be the salesperson or or the uh the expert of who we are or what we do, but just make some connections, make some introductions that will lead so lead to something. So, you know, I think that's a big way. You're right. We do have some projects with our uh Thrive, which is our reusable menstrual pads that we um produce for girls, and girls produce for. themselves there in the countries in which we work. There's some opportunities to volunteer there. Um I but uh ultimately for us to continue to move forward and grow into the next 20 years, we're gonna need a growing army of people who who know us and want to share our story and share the story of the kids that we serve that are real so that people don't forget.

SPEAKER_01 44:49

Yeah, yeah. I I love that and I under I understand how that that rolls out so well just in keeping it. So I I hope you know we're gonna be sharing this. I hope if you're listening to this, you can share it. Um yeah, it takes two seconds to click share and do those things. But um, is there anything else? Like I we know we covered a lot, and there's probably so much more we could cover um that you would really want people to know about. I know if we go to your site, you know, there's stories out there, there's things that you know you can pull from very, very easily. Um, anything that you think we we should cover before we end our time?

SPEAKER_00 45:19

Yeah, I would just say this that you know I shared some stories. Um the kids that we serve are not uh what's the best way to say it? They have autonomy, they have dignity, they have skills and giftings. They don't need to be rescued from their cultures and the background. I mean, there is nothing wrong. There is so much beauty in being a small village in northern Uganda or northeast Nigeria where they're grinding it out by planting their own crops, harvesting those crops, reinvesting in the next season. Sometimes we in the West can look at it and say, well, they need a tractor or they need to learn IT so they can get on a computer. And yeah, maybe for a few, those are valuable options. But for the vast majority, if they can overcome the trauma and the crisis that was inflicted on them, not by their choice, and they're given a few of the tools along the way to be successful, whether it's business skills or vocational skills. Uh there's a beauty in them building a livelihood for themselves. We had one girl in particular. Um, she she graduated several years ago from our program, and uh our staff on the ground sent this cool video of them being at her plot of land where she's got a few different huts built. She's got cows that she purchased, she's she's got a small kind of um market operation going, and she's paying her kids school fees. They they went into her hut and were kind of doing a video of of what was inside, and on the wall in the hut are pictures of her kids in their graduation outfits and things like that. Like, I I I wouldn't want people to look at the work we do and especially the kids that we serve as less than. These are kids that just need a little investment in who they are. God's already created them to do great things. And maybe the great things look different than what we would consider great, but if they can change the trajectory of the futures for their children and their grandkids, and I mean that's that's an amazing thing to be a part of. And I I believe that's what the gospel intends for us. That we in our faithfulness to God, we're not we can't be so caught up in what the fruit will be. We just need to be faithful to trust him to bring the fruit. And that fruit can look a lot uh very different in different parts of the world, but it's still gospel fruit that God will do great things with.

SPEAKER_01 48:04

That's so good, Nathan. Thank you so much. That was a great way to wrap this all up. So I appreciate your time. We will put all the links in the show notes and online, but I just really appreciate what you guys do. I love kind of following along and and being a small part of it, but um we're very thankful and just thank you for this conversation. I think it was it was exactly what you know we needed it to be and just kind of shed some more light, keep awareness, click share. It's not a lot of work to just share the stories um and go from there. So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

Awesome. Thanks, Amber. It's great talking to you.

SPEAKER_01 48:32

Bye.