Why female friendships can be so hard...

Amber and Gretchen discuss Why are female friendships so hard and why they are so beautiful at the same time.  We crave deep connection, yet we often find ourselves tangled in comparison, competition, disappointment, and hurt. The truth is, we were built for sisterhood but broken by sin. 

It's a 20 minute crash course on friendship Friday.  We might have to dig deeper on on this one. 

Welcome to the BRAVE pod

Where we have conversations that matter to grow a task force that fights against the spiritual trafficking of our girls. We are Bold Redeemed Anointed Victorious and Eternal and it’s race against the enemy for her heart. The time is now to go on the Great Rescue, I am your host Amber Johns, let’s talk about it. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Okay, ironically, for Friendship Friday. We're talking about email. It wasn't meant to be. But we started talking about it because that's what we just do. We're like, we need to record this. This is recordable. This is recordable. So pull the mics out. Friendship and I pull the mics out and we're like, Friendship Friday isn't recording right now. Only because we started talking about women ministry. And then we got to like white is or are female friendships typically harder and more difficult than having male friends or guy friendships. Like I feel like there's some nuance. And I don't think we're alone in this. But you have had a great female friend. Like sister wise and friendship-wise.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

Like you and I have a very opposite um lived experience in like the female friendship area. Like I did not grow up with a ton of men. Um like men. Boys. I was not friends with a lot of boys in school. Like I was, but I would al it was like always like I had a crush on it. Like it was never like I didn't have like close boy friends. And um I always had really strong female relationships.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Oh, you've had better female friendships.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

I feel like a better lived experience. I grew up the second of three sisters, like the middle of three sisters. So I I and we moved around a lot. So like I had two built-in best friends wherever we went. I and they were always girls. It was my two sisters. Um, and then I just always had like a best friend, like I always had a best friend and a like a pretty close-knit group of girlfriends. Um, guys were not really like I was I mean, I wasn't paling around with guys much, not because I didn't want to, but just because like I didn't gravitate towards them. So like I grew up very comfortable. Like I didn't I never run with like catty crowds of girls. Like I wasn't popular in school, I wasn't with any of like the popular kids, so I didn't have the cattiness. I just had the closeness and like the girlhood. Like I have really warm memories of like experiencing girlhood with other with close girlfriends. Um, but I know that's like not everybody's lived. I know it's not your lived experience.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

I think it's um I think it takes effort, but I I would say, and I'm gonna be careful how I say it, but I think like I had I would say one very good girlfriend in high school who we're still friends to this day, and I'm thankful for her, but I also know like her personality fit that, like very chill, very like wasn't bothered by much, um, wasn't competitive on the athletic field. So if you did well, she celebrated you, um, which that wasn't always the case. Um, and I think that's very normal. I think that's very like what teen girls go through. I think there is a growing experience. I would say when I got to college is when I found female friendships that were, even though we were 18 and 19, like they lasted and they it was a different world to live in. You know, I was far from home, and it was, you know, we're just trying to survive freshman year. And that mattered. I think I think that's the difference to a stage of life. So I didn't I did find guys easier to hang out with in high school. They they just weren't into they weren't competitive, they weren't, you know, catty, they weren't gossiping. I don't know. Like I just in it, I felt there was a lot of ebb and flow. Like somebody would be your best friend one minute, and then like you'd show up to school the next day and they'd be really mean to you, and you didn't know what happened in the 24-hour period. And this is like, you know, without phones. So we didn't have to. So you truly went no contact. Yeah, and I just think I had good, like I loved high school. I didn't, I don't have like wasn't traumatized in high school or anything, but looking backwards now, I feel like I mean, even in certain church circles of that, I I'd never found that like girlfriend that I was like, oh, you're my best, like you're gonna be my best friend for life, and we did everything together. I didn't find that, and um I don't know why maybe I'm the common denominator, I don't know, but you know, like that was really hard for me. So when it when I got to college and found like really amazing friends that were girls, it was it was new for me, and then going into adulthood, it gets challenging yet again because you're now facing like there's weird competition out there, and I don't think we even know it, like in motherhood or in career life.

SPEAKER_03 4:57

Like, I even find for me, like I think adult female friendships are difficult for me because the time like whether or not I'm actively thinking about it, there's timeline comparisons, right? Like, I'm 34, I'm single, and I have no kids, and so like I haven't met these like quote unquote benchmarks that I think were especially like in youth group, like I was primed to think that like by 25, I'll be married with my first kid, and like because that's what God wants, right? And I think as I've gotten older, it gets harder and harder because I feel isolated from where other women my age are, especially in the church. Um, I think outside the church it's easier to find women who are in the same stage of life as me. Um, but in the church, I'm surrounded by women my age who are in a very different part of their life than me, like yeah, doing a lot of diaper changes. And I think there are groups of women that that is like the core of that relationship group, and that's toxic. But but I think that there's this misconception that that's at the core of most female friendships, and I think that at least in my in my experience, it's if you if you put yourself out there and if you find people, you're gonna actually find the majority of times it's not gonna be like as long as you're not putting that energy out there yourself, that's not gonna be what you find. Like, like I guess maybe for me, I'm not a gossip. Like, I I mean, yeah, do I love hearing people's secrets? I love I love I was saying to my parents this uh, I don't know, like a week or so ago. I was like, it's a love language for me for someone to be like, I have something to tell, I have a secret to tell you. I'm like, yes, please tell me your secrets. Like it's a love language for me, but I don't, I'm not a gossip, I don't I don't like share, you know, whatever. Um, so maybe I just don't attract those women. Like maybe, maybe it's a vibes thing. Like, I don't, I actually am very, especially as I get older, I'm like, that's gossip. I'm not taking part in that. Like I've re I've actually rebuked a couple of like older ladies in our church in the moment. I'm like, that's actually gossip. You're saying it's like I'm caring about you, but that's actually gossip. Let's cut that.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

And it's so harmful. And I think that's as soon as one like it gets around that that hurtful words.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

Well, like around a younger girl. Like the the couple of times I've done it in like a very not harsh, but like I've been pretty like hard on it, is because it's it's in front of a couple of younger girls who are on my ministry teams. And I'm like, I'm like, you as older women in the church are not gonna talk that way in front of girls and show them that that's how women talk to each other. Uh-uh. We're not.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

And I think it happens a lot more like when you because I've caught myself like engaging, like you sort of like, oh no, really, and it it entices. I get it. I get it. It's like yummy food. You have to really pull back from that. And and thankfully, and I do think like as you get older, hopefully, that that kind of competitiveness wears off. But I think even among like trying to find godly friends, women who are on pace with like, hey, like, um, I'm chasing Jesus too. Now it gets even more narrow. I mean, right? Like one more filter added, one more filter. It's like we get along great, but now to have that person who comes alongside who's like, I I am really when I say I'm praying for you, I'm praying for you. When I say, you know, like I'm coming to you as a friend, this is gonna be hard for you to hear. Like, now we're getting into which is okay. Like, you don't need, you know, 50 of those, you need a few of those, but I come across more and more women, they're not necessarily in a small group, and I'm not saying Bible study isn't good, hear me out. There's Bible study, and then there's like a life group, which I think Bible study is you get around the word of God and you read it and you're you're dissecting the text. And yes, there might be some personal infiltration of that. I think life group, just for definition's sake, is there's we use scripture, right? We count everything against scripture, but it's more like what's going on, and like here's here's where I'm at, not to spill everybody's guts, but to really be like this this is my transparent, vulnerable space. Yes, and everybody in that group is going to give encouragement or a word that comes from and does not contradict scripture. Now we're getting even harder, and that's a hard thing to find. And I think it's very rare. I mean, I'm so thankful we have it and we have had it with you know different people, but that again takes so much work. And when women especially aren't feeling in those places where other women have their back, especially in their faith, and especially with the challenges where it's like you can be a Christian woman and still struggle with how you feel about your body. You can still struggle with how you feel about your marriage, you can still struggle with like, oh, your kids aren't perfect. Oh man, like who knew? Yeah, who knew you feel like a failure here, or hey, I am single and it does bother me. Like those spaces are very rare, and I do think that's where a lot of loneliness occurs in women, but especially in Christian women. Yes. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

Well, because you're subconsciously encouraged to put only your best self forward in front of other Christian women because it looks from the outside like all the Christian women around me have their stuff together, and I don't have my stuff together. And so why am I gonna put that- And then you met me?

SPEAKER_02 10:22

Little No, I just don't know if she doesn't have her stuff together.

SPEAKER_03 10:28

We could be Oh, we could hang. Okay, she's a hot mess, great. I'm a hot mess, too. Like chaos, great. Let's be chaos gremlins together. Oh, I see why this works. We were meant for each other.

unknown 10:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

Our chaos perfection was yeah, we were our chaos was meant to fit together, like puzzles, puzzle pieces. I you know, I also, as you're saying this, I am wondering if part of it is like I I don't know. It took me being an adult to learn how to receive feedback from from like from Christians without it feeling like condemnation. And I wonder if like if I had had an older woman in my life as a teen who was willing to be like, hey, like I see this and I'm not sure about it. Can we talk about it? And like approached, had someone with eyes on me who wasn't my mom, right? Because like, who's taking feedback from their mom? Nobody, not me. Let me just call myself out. I'm not, wasn't as a teenager. But like, if I had had a woman, an adult woman in my life who I trusted and who like basically taught me how to receive feedback, would I would would I be a more easily like would I be able to find these deeper friendships easier, right? Like if girls were in relationships with adult women who who I mean, just it's discipleship is what we're talking about, but like finger on the pulse of what's going on in your day-to-day life and are able to push back when things aren't feeling or looking quite right. If we had had that more as teen girls with women, would we be more open and accepting to female relationships in adulthood?

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Yeah, that's interesting. That's very I think I like who taught you how to do that? Yeah, no one taught you. That's really good because I think there's two things. One, right, most of the time, if you're gonna it's not even advice, like one, your delivery is everything. Is if you're an older woman and you want to speak into the life of the of a girl and you're like, I see this in her, but I also have concerns, your delivery is everything in that moment. Like if you make or break it's make or break 100%, and I think that's either why we break it or we never make it, it's because we avoid it, yeah. Or our delivery is harsh and condemning, even if your heart isn't. Like, I think we have to be aware of our our words and our actions, and also as young women, you know, being okay with that input, and I you know, that that's where it's like at 13, 14, 15. I don't remember well enough to be like, would I have appreciated? I don't feel, and I'm just saying this off the cuff, I haven't thought about it, and if I need to retract it later, I will. I don't know if there was a woman older than me, my mom, not a part of this, but like a woman who I was like, I want to be like her. Like, there's something about her I I like, she loves Jesus, but she's also this. Like, there I don't remember, I'm not recalling one, so I guess there wasn't, but there's women now in my life that are older than me that I'm like, I hope when I'm 60, 70, 80, I'm I'm rocking it like she is. Like that's pretty cool. So there is there is that, but I think, yeah, I think we've there's some gaps, not for everybody, and it's not all the way around, but for me, outside of my mom's teaching and my mom's you know, encouragement, there wasn't somebody in my life that I was like, I would have gone to her, I would, I would have told her the things that were really hard. I don't know, and maybe maybe that's what we're trying to fix. Maybe that's where the the boat we're trying to turn here is like we need to be having those things outside of you know moms are still parenting. Then you bring in somebody else who's I'm not parenting you, I just want to see you grow deeper with Jesus, and I want to see you have great friendships. That's a different, that's a different person.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

Well, and and as much as like moms, moms should be discipling their daughters, right? But that is a to put that entire burden on a mother when she's also trying to raise them into adulthood is too much. Like you can't expect that entire burden to be in the in the arms of a mom or a dad, right, with his kids. Like parents, I mean, it takes a village is a thing, and we culturally have lost the it takes a village mindset. But part of that is like, okay, so now we've we've not only lost the support for parents, but we've also lost the support for the kids. Like, kids need more adults around them who care about them than just their parents. Yeah. Because parents are broken, and parents are just two people, and like sometimes just one person trying to do their best with like raising kids. Yeah. You need more people than that.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Yeah, isn't it so? I mean, there's so much more that we were just talking about um a book that I had read and I loved, and it was called Um, I Don't Even Like Women. Christian author, she's she's great to follow. Natalie Renin is her name. And I read the book because I was like, I think that applies to me more than I want to admit that it does. Is yeah, sometimes I don't, I just don't like guys, just can be easier to work with, um, bounce ideas off of. But her book it it brought to light how powerful and beautiful female friendships are when they're put in the right light, when they're not competing, when they're cheering each other on, when they have the same goals, when they're transparent and vulnerable, protected from gossip. Like it really shaped me in a way that I was like, I do want those friendships. And I'm so glad I have them. I mean, it's been a beautiful thing, but so so strategic by the enemy to put women against each other, or that you don't like women, or that you know, women's friendships aren't for you. Total lie. Yeah, like, and I've heard it, I've been it, like I have believed that.

SPEAKER_03 16:25

Like, of course, the enemy wants us to think that girls are silly and girls loving each other as silly, and women being joyful, and like even just I I mean it seems silly, but even the like people making fun of like a giggling group of girls, like this group of girls who are just enjoying each other. Like, of course Satan wants us to feel silly being around each other. Of course he wants us to compete with each other. Because like I said it before, like we we get things done when we're when we're locking arms with each other. Yeah, we get nothing done when we're when we're gossiping, when we're competing, when we're comparing each other and and coming up short to each other, like but we get things done when we're locked arms. Yeah. And loving each other well.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Yeah. No, there's there's something about you get a you get some women together who have a goal, they'll get it done. Yes, very, very clear. But I I I do appreciate that. So I just I go back to like even while we were having this discussion, we're like, we're gonna we're gonna record this, is I think many people do find it, many women can find it very difficult to be good friends or have a group of friends that they that they feel safe with. And I that's what goes back to a small group is very important, and also being able to laugh and not take ourselves so seriously. Because I think that's some of it too, is we're so hyper focused on ourselves, how we present, how we look, how we sound, how our parenting looks, or how our you know, our life looks. And this is a big like brushstroke. I'm not saying this is for everybody, but I think we do that and then we lose sight of the fact that we we need to be a good friend to also have a good friend. Yeah. And I think sometimes we're consumeristic in our friendship of why don't people like me? Why am I not being invited? Why am I not doing this? And and truly, you all are also not doing any inviting or and sometimes it's okay to be the one that makes the effort. Like I I would say outside of very few people, 75% of the time I'm making the effort. I've just I used to resent that. I'm like, just like if I didn't talk to anybody, nobody would be there. No one would want me to be here. So like if I didn't make the effort, nobody would care. And like again, sometimes is it discouraging? Sure, but that's that's not how God would want us to operate. And I can't, I would lose out on friendships if I didn't initiate. So I think there's that there's that nuance thing too. But I'll say I love the book. I will recommend it again, but also it does it does take a lot of effort, no matter what stage of life you're in, high school, college, adulthood, it takes effort to find good friends, keep good friends, and and be a good friend. But yeah, how beautiful and strong and sometimes hurtful, like we can all be hurt by our friends. Yeah, but that's God made us for friendship. Um, and also to laugh because we're funny.

SPEAKER_03 19:14

So I know, like, not to be a total science nerd about it either, but like you're gonna be I'm gonna be a little bit of a psychology nerd about it. Like psychologically, we also need like like I'll I'll just say it for me when I'm around you. Like, I like you and I are I can't speak for you, you co-regulate me. Like when I'm around you, like I just feel myself settle, like my brain gets quieter, I'm able to just be more present. When I'm around the people that I love the most, my brain shuts up. Like it's part of why it's a part of my constant struggle with singleness and living alone in my 30s, is that I go home and my brain gets really loud because I'm all by myself. It's just me, myself, and I. When I'm around the people that I love the most, who I know love me the most, my brain settles and I'm like able to be more present. Like, we need that, we need that co-regulation with each other. Um, and that can come from romantic relationships, but it's a lot easier to find in platonic relationships.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Yeah. I mean, I think this was the perfect discussion for Friendship Friday. I love Friendship Friday, man. Go find a friend, yes, go be a friend and be funny.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Because that holds friendship together. Yes. That was my deep thought to end this whole time. I love that. Such a good deep thought. I know I thought about that for a while. Rewrote it this morning.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

Oh gosh. All right, well, be my friend. I'm already your friend. You don't have to ask. Anybody listening, you don't have to be I'll be here every Wednesday. Okay. Or Friday, I mean Friendship Fridays. Record on Wednesdays, yeah. Secret Friday. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 20:46

Bye bye.