Behind The Console
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Behind The Console
WE JUST SPENT $10K ON NEW AUDIO GEAR?!
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We just spent $10K on new studio gear. In this episode, we break down what we bought, why we decided to upgrade, and whether expensive equipment actually makes a difference in music production and audio engineering. Does better gear really improve your mixes, or is it more about skill and experience? We talk about the mindset producers develop around upgrading their studios, the psychology of buying new gear, and how to know when it’s actually worth the investment.
Hey, what's up everybody? It's Dot and Derek. And we are shooting another episode of Behind the Console. Stay tuned. But we're gonna have like a nice intro here.
SPEAKER_02What's up, guys? So uh today we wanted to discuss uh gear and more gear. More gear, but mainly because both of us we just purchased uh some new equipment recently. Um so we actually went to Longa McQuay together. We we spoke to uh the rep that Dot knows over there, and he hook he hooked us up with some pretty good deals, you know. So we wanted to discuss some of our favorite gear today, the gear that we've been using, and also just discuss the new gear that we purchased. So, what did you buy uh recently, man?
SPEAKER_00What did I buy? I don't even want to say what I bought. Let them just just figure it out. Now I I got the massive passive, manly massive passive mastering version. Yes, stereo equalizer, which I wanted to buy from a long time ago. I was looking for one for years right now. I just couldn't find one that had the price that I was willing to pay. Yeah, but uh luckily Lung McQuaid, shout out to Lung McQuaid, maybe we're gonna get some sponsorship, you know. They should bless us. They already did, but they should bless us a little bit more. But yeah, I got massive passive because I had to add something extra to my chain. I I I feel like when it comes to the gear, when we mix, after X amount of time, we feel that something is missing because we are so used to the things that we hear all the time, and I think uh it was a great decision. I'm not gonna lie, I had it for past maybe three days, four days right now, and it's been amazing, it's been great. It's I I would say it's probably even more what I was expecting for it to be, which is kind of crazy, but you know, I'm gonna get back to it a little bit later. What did you buy?
SPEAKER_02So I ended up buying the uh Apogee Symphony Mark II converter. Um, so I was in the I was looking for a new converter for a while. So both of us right now were using the Orion. And the Orion is a great, great converter, but I think for me and my workflow, because I'm not using 32 channels, I thought, you know, I could probably upgrade my conversion to something that was better with more dynamic, uh, with more dynamic range and headroom while not while be still sacrificing some channels because I'm not using as many as at the moment. I know for you it'll be more challenging because you know you have a hundred pieces of gear. So, but for me, you know, I don't have as many. So for me, I really want to upgrade my conversion, but also at the same time upgrade my monitoring. So yeah, I bought the Apogee Symphony. I haven't been able to use it yet, unfortunately, because you know I'm still waiting for my Thunderbolt card. So hopefully I can get that soon. But yeah, I'm very, very excited to be to be using that. Nice. So, how does the Massive Passive right now compare to uh the plug-in version that you're using? Like what are the differences you've been hearing?
SPEAKER_00You know what? So I was working on the I'm working on like a couple of couple of mixes for sick kick. We're just working on a couple of singles, and uh there's this one record that I was mixing, and I mixed everything into massive passive plug-in. And I did it because he had it on his master bus in his reference mix, and he like he likes to have stuff like sounding very, very close to his reference mix. So I was like, you know, I I didn't have it before on my master bus, but then I was like, something was missing when I was comparing to what I had and uh what he had. So I added the plugin and kind of make made things pop and do certain things. So I was like, okay, cool, I like it. But then I when I got the massive passive on Sunday, I think we had the session on Monday or Tuesday, and I dialed in exactly the same settings that I had on the plugin. Yeah, like exactly the same settings. So we were going back and forth uh between between the plugin and the and the hardware. Like, you know, I would bypass it, enable the engage the the hardware and just go back and forth, back and forth.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00And the difference is actually incredible. There's so much more clarity that you're getting in the hardware. Yeah, there is so much more everything that you just can't hear. Like, I'm not gonna say you can't hear in the plugin, but plug in I I did uh I did a video before, but I'm gonna say it again. I haven't even posted it. But basically the difference is that that's that's my analogy. With the plug-in, it feels like you're in when you're in a battle, let's say it's like uh you're uh a general and you have a 14th year, uh 14th century army or something. Right. When you have an army, you have a whole bunch of people fighting, whole bunch of soldiers. Soldiers are the frequencies. With the plug-in, is like you're standing on the top of the hill. You see everything that is going on, but your perspective is like from far. Right. Like you can still navigate, but you're not inside of like you're not among the frequencies, among your soldiers. Okay. With the hardware, it's like you're in the battle. Like all those frequencies surround you more. Right. So it's like you still can do the same thing, it's just two different perspectives. Okay. Of how you can uh how you hear it or how I hear it. Okay. And when I compared the those two mixes, then I was still running it through Orion. Okay, yes. So that was when I was mixing, I was running through Orion. Right. But then on Monday, actually, maybe it was it was after, I figured out how to route everything into the Neumann, the MT-48, which has uh, you know, mastering great converter. Um it has much more headroom than uh than the Orion. Neumann has 136 dB of headroom on the output and 128 on the input. Where Orion has, I think, 116 or 118 in and out. So when I switched it to uh to Neumann, it was even crazier because everything became so much snappier, so much more like more defined, like that little blanket that was there before, it was gone. So it's almost like I'm I'm not gonna lie, I was a little bit not confused, but I didn't expect there's gonna be such a big difference when I switched it to Neumann because right now, even if I if you know how sometimes when you put the insert on this stuff on in in Pro Tools and you compare it between the insert and no insert, it's almost like a like a blanket that you have some you know I'm trying to say, right? When you do the inserts with Neumann, you don't have that blanket. You know what I mean? It's like I was literally going back and forth, back and forth. Like there's very, like there's obviously a slight little difference, but it's very, very close to what it is like just without anything. Okay. You know, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02So right now you're running your massive passive uh as an insert on your mixed bus.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_02So you're running the passive assessment.
SPEAKER_00There's like a ver it's basically the very last thing on the on the on the mixed bus.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Like I use it for most of this stuff, but I was mixing a song yesterday that I just felt like because the the artist that I work with, he likes stuff so loud that I feel like massive passive was just like it was making it a little bit too smooth. Like he likes that edge. He likes when things are like a little bit more like you know I mean, like uh rougher. Even his vocals, like he likes vocals a little bit less processed than stuff. Okay, so um, yeah, I I use it for most of the time, but yeah, it's the very last thing in the chain right now. After the the mix bus A, Mix Bus B, all the other things. Okay. That's like a very last thing in the chain. Okay.
SPEAKER_02So you would use it in your mix um while you're mixing, but then would you use it again when you're mastering or no? Is that redundant?
SPEAKER_00Like once I use it in the mix, if I use it in the master, no. You would not do that, right? I like once I once I do the mix, like if I'm mastering the mix that I did, I never use the hardware twice. I just do everything in the box. So I already did everything, like I would I would do everything in the mix to the point where it's like I don't need to apply the same rules again.
SPEAKER_01Okay, that's it.
SPEAKER_00So it's almost like my mix bus is almost like a pre-master of how I want things to be. And then in the master, I just have to like you know clean it up a little bit. Obviously, limiting, maybe make it a little bit wider, like just clean up certain things and uh just just finalize it that way. Right. But if somebody sends me stuff to master and I didn't I didn't mix it, then I would use it on the in the master.
SPEAKER_02Okay, that makes sense. That makes sense. So I guess you know, with with purchasing new gear for us is a way of leveling up and also for us to help get closer to that sound that we're always kind of searching for and trying to achieve with our mixes and our masters, right? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Of course, this is an investment for ourselves, but do you think in today's world with how prominent plugins are and how good plugins are, do you think buying more gear as an engineer helps you attract more clients?
SPEAKER_00Look, man, it's addiction, man. It is an addiction, it's an expensive addiction. I mean, tell somebody that's addicted to drugs, don't buy drugs, man. Yeah. Um I mean, look, it's everybody have their own personal thing. I I personally like, look, I feel like guys like us, we we live to do what we do. It's a part of the game, and I feel like hardware gear is part of the whole entire studio experience, you know, the the the lifestyle. It's just it's just part of the game. Do you need it to to mix and stuff? No, you don't. You can just use plugins. Uh is it gonna sound the same? No, it's not gonna sound the same. Is it gonna do the same thing? Partially, yes. Like it's gonna be the same application, but within the application, you can do certain things with the plugins that you cannot do with the hardware, and you can do certain things with the hardware that you cannot do with the plugins. Right. Look, at the end of the day, best of both worlds is what is really the best, you know, thing, in my opinion. Automation and stuff, like plugins cannot be beat when it comes to that. Of course. You can do things like you know, automation, uh, just certain things are much easier to achieve in the plug-in world. Yes, even doing recalls, yeah, recalls and all that. So you just open the session, is it's open, you know. Yeah, exactly. With the hardware, is like it requires more time, um, you know, to recall and just just tweak things a certain way. Um, and one I I think the biggest disadvantage, even though hardware has so many advantages sonically and just just look-wise, I feel like when you have a studio and you have a lot of hardware, when you when artists come, they respect you a little bit more because they see that you know you actually put in work, like this is this is who you are. You know what I mean? Actually, investing. Exactly. It's a like it's an extension of your brand, in a sense, you know, like when you have a high-end gear and you work with people, I think just the idea that they know that their music is gonna pass through all those legendary pieces, like those big brands and stuff, it's uh, you know, it's it gives a little bit extra credibility to your work. Yes. And I'm not saying, look, if you don't know how to use it, it doesn't matter what gear you're gonna have, is not really gonna change anything because at the end of the day it's the person that runs it that is the most important thing. 100%. But you know, I I think having um having that gear is definitely uh is definitely uh I I don't I I want to say it's uh it is important. You want to say it. I want to say I want to say it is important.
SPEAKER_02It helps us to know that it to feel like it does.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, for sure. Like I want it to be important. It's important to me, you know?
SPEAKER_02Yes. So I I I agree with you, and I think um, you know, whenever some a client reaches out to you, I guess it depends. Like, if someone wants to record with you, then I think definitely the microphone matters a lot. I think the microphone always matters. People always ask, you know, what microphone you're using. Um, preamps, maybe people don't really ask as much, but I think at the end of the day, all gear matters, and even with how today the plugins are are very prominent and how good they're sounding. I think with the gear that we have, again, I I think we spoke about this before, but even if that it gives us that like 1% edge, it's like the culmination of everything that we're doing with all the pieces of gear that we have. Yeah, at the end of it, it's gonna give you that maybe extra 10, 11%, 12% boost.
SPEAKER_00That nobody's gonna notice other than us.
SPEAKER_02I mean, but you know what's for certain certain clients, yes, but there are a lot of clients who who they they actually really study this stuff. No, 100%. Like, oh, you have this, yo, can you try this? Um, you know, they can actually hear it, but for a lot of beginners, yeah, they probably might not hear the difference, but you know, I I think it still matters.
SPEAKER_00I think it matters. I definitely think it matters, and there's just certain depth, there's certain clarity, there's just certain things they cannot get within plugins.
SPEAKER_02Yes, and let me say this too, because I just said that maybe for a beginner they might not understand the difference, but I think for someone even starting off music, maybe they might not be able to tell exactly what the difference is, but when they hear the mix or they hear the master, they can feel the difference. 100%. But they might not understand why, but really it's because of the gear and like everything that we're doing, right? So I think it's still it still matters.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, one good thing that you brought here is the feeling. Yes. I I feel like many times there there are things that we hear, but then there are things that we feel, and a regular listener might not always be able to identify why they feel what they feel. Yes, yes, yes. But many times because you know, as an engineer, we are able to bring out those frequencies that make you feel a certain way. I don't know if you do it sometimes, but like out uh sweep the frequencies, especially in the low end. Uh, and I I love using the the BX digital for that. Yes. And like when it just hits that right frequency, when I hear that resonance, it's just like my body just has a response to it. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's like especially when you're looking for like a bass frequency, like you want the eight of eight or the bass to feel a little bit rounder. Like there's certain, and obviously every bass is gonna have a different frequency, every sound is gonna have a different frequency, but like if you're looking for it and just like snaps in the right place when it resonates a certain way, you can feel that that frequency like submerging you, if that makes sense. You know what I mean? Like it hits you more, like you can feel it.
SPEAKER_02You know, so no, I agree. And um, that kind of reminds me of you know that um it's that that piece of I don't know, I guess it's a piece of gear, but you know, it's kind of like a chest strap that you wear around. I saw that and then you can feel the sub like in your chest. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Have you ever tried one of those? No, I haven't. But this is for like, is this for this is for gaming, no? Is it for gaming? I saw it.
SPEAKER_02Or is it for mixing as well?
SPEAKER_00Maybe there's one for a mixing. I've seen one for uh for gaming. Gaming makes sense, actually. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, um, I think the concept is cool. I don't, I I didn't I didn't use it, I didn't experience it, so I can't really tell how much it would benefit mixing with this thing. I mean, it might be a cool experience, maybe, maybe not. I really don't know. Uh, but one thing that uh that doesn't really relate to that thing, but uh during this year's NAM, I I saw a little clip of a guy's that they had the electronic bass trap.
SPEAKER_02Oh yes, yes, yes. I think that was wasn't that like 20 bands or something? 25. 5,000.
SPEAKER_00That's what 5,000? Yeah, that's what I saw. Okay, okay. Maybe because there this one is a new, like a newer version, because that thing been around for a minute, but they just like upgraded it to like newer, um, newer version and stuff.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00But it's like 5,000 USD, which is like 3 billion Canadian. Um Yeah, I I wonder how that really uh I just honestly, I would just love to try it. Yes, me too. I would love to try it and see what this whole hype is really about. I love technology and just that, you know, having the one bass strap that can capture the bass coming from your speakers is just a magic to me. I'm like, how does it work? I need to understand. I I think from my understanding, it discovers the frequencies and it flips the face on them or something.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00That's my understanding. I might be completely wrong. I don't know, but like that's kind of like what I understood when he was explaining it.
SPEAKER_02No, that is pretty crazy, man, if you think about it. Because the bass resonances are usually some of the biggest issues that rooms have. Yeah, yeah. Right. So for it to be able to however it works, tweak the phase, cancel out the no uh the phase cancellation, like, yeah, it's crazy, bro.
SPEAKER_00But I I I I think when it comes to the rooms and the room sound and all room itself is also a big part of your sound. Okay.
SPEAKER_02In the sense of that it affects your monitoring.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it affects the way how you hear stuff, it will affect the way how you mix, it will affect the way how you feel things, you know? Yeah, yeah. It's like when you have a room that is completely dead, you would mix it very, very different than when you have a you know room that is like semi-treated or like fully treated, but like sometimes I feel like the imperfections can create a little bit more mojo. Because realistically, and again, I might be wrong, like my room is pretty well treated, it's not perfect, but like I think it sounds really well for what it is. But realistically, how many people listen to music in perfect environment?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you're right. People don't listen to music in perfect environments, but I think for a mixer, I think it is still ideal to have your listening environment as accurate as possible so that when you're mixing, you're making decisions that translate.
SPEAKER_00No, 100%. Yeah, yeah. You you you have to have an accurate room, that's for sure. It can have a little bit more mojo, this and that. Like, you know, certain rooms might be a little bit darker, and you know, but there's so many things that play part speakers, conversion, yeah. Everything plays part in this game.
SPEAKER_02Like, you know, even even having couches in your room, like yeah, I'm I think even adding just that couch probably dead a lot of sound in that area.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. So, you know, there's there's definitely a lot of um, there's so many different variables when it comes to this uh this game, but you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I think um one important thing to to note because we we are talking about gear is I think some people might think that purchasing a piece of gear is like a solution to all of their mixing issues, you know, but it's not because if you have a bad mix, it's not like buying a piece of gear is some kind of magic trick where you throw it on your mix and boom, all of a sudden your your all the masking frequencies are gone, all the low-end issues are gone. It's I don't think gear can fix a bad mix because what you mentioned before too, it's about the person who's using the gear. You have to understand how to use the gear. You have to be informed and knowledgeable about the piece of gear you need you want to buy based on the issues or the things you're trying to achieve in your mix. Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I think when it comes to gear as well, is very it's subjective, right? Because I might be here praising massive passive, like this is exactly what I wanted, I love it. Yeah, but there's gonna be somebody that's gonna try and is like, I hate, I hate it, I don't like the way how it sounds.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. So for everyone, like the gear really depends on your workflow, on your taste, on your taste, and also how you hear things. Like how you said the massive passive for you is perfect, but maybe to someone else it's it's it's not good for them. Maybe they don't like things too smooth, maybe they don't like things sounding this way or this way, right? So it really depends on your sound. So it's important to do the research, but also to understand that it depends on how you use the piece of gear. It's not just you throw the piece of gear on and all of a sudden it's like, oh I have this crazy mix.
SPEAKER_00It's like you know, different like that. I feel like, you know, even with things like Portico and stuff, like I know people that didn't like the sound of Portico.
SPEAKER_02I feel it's a very dark sound.
SPEAKER_00You know, I mean it's like it has its own mojo, and it's like if you like this type of sound, if you appreciate it, then that's gonna be your thing. But if you want something that is like, you know, cleaner, more pristine, and it's just kind of lives in a different world, you might not appreciate the sound. Yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, so definitely like I remember when I got the the Avalon 747, I loved it from the jump. I was like, this is exactly what I was looking for. Yeah, you know, but then it's like there are people that had it, and like even the guy that sold me the thing, he was like, Yeah, I've had it, but like I just I didn't use it for like almost two years. True. But for you use it almost all the time, all the time, right? All the time, you know. Like obviously, the thing is that when it comes to the gear, the biggest like there's two types of people there's people that have one setting and they just mix into that one setting every single record, they never change the settings of the thing because they don't want to recall the mix. And there's people that tweak tweak it all the time, change this, change that, like disable this, enable this, like flip this, see what really makes the most sense, right? But I feel like I used to be like and I was both. I'm the other guy right now, but I when I started with the gear, I only had one specific setting and I was just mixing into it. But then it's like when you always mix into one setting, it limits your ability to really fix the mix. Because sometimes when you start things, bam, bam, bam, you start pushing it, this and that, and that sometimes you just have to ease it up a little bit. You know, I mean you just have to like turn things down, you have to like switch things, you might have to disable this. Like you might have to like, even I don't know if you ever do it, but for me, when I mix, I sometimes I start with one idea of the mix. And then halfway through, I just completely switch up. And when you switch up something, when you have like, you know, certain things on the on the master bus, changing your master bus is a part of the creative process. Yes, definitely. You know, definitely, definitely. So it's like even on Porticle, sometimes I would like, you know how there's uh the not the saturation, what is it the saturation? The blue and red. Yeah, the saturation, yeah. So sometimes, you know, sometimes blue is my favorite one. I love the blue one, but sometimes I use the red. Sometimes I just completely turn it off. Sometimes I feel like it just sounds better without anything on it. Yeah. Same thing with like a stereo imagery. I love stereo imager on it. But I just know for some mixes, for some some artists, like they just might not appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, definitely. It's uh very subjective. Yeah, yeah. Very, very subjective. And um, yeah, man, but the Portugal is a great piece of gear. It's uh it's definitely the first piece of gear that I bought, for sure. And I remember because is this the first one you bought? Yes, the very first one that I bought. Congratulations. The very first one that I bought. And I remember when I bought it, remember you told me like, congratulations, you just bought a Ferrari as your first piece of equipment. I remember you said that to me. But no, man, I I love the porticle and um yeah, it's a great piece of equipment. It's a great piece of equipment.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I think it's like it's one of those things, like, I mean, there's always people like you know, they have it for sale and stuff. Like, I don't think personally ever gonna sell my porticle. I definitely need to get it serviced. I want to like fix up the knobs and stuff, because my knobs are a little bit not not busted, but like they're not as tight as I would want them to be. So I feel like at some point I just need to like either send it back to uh to Neve or get somebody to like change all of my knobs and all that stuff just to like really re-tighten it up. But uh Is that your oldest piece of gear? It's not my oldest piece of gear. I think my oldest would be Sigma? No. I don't know if I got Sigma before No, I got Sigma I don't know what I got Sigma actually. I got no, I got Sigma before Portico. Portico was after. Uh I don't know what would my oldest piece of gear be um I don't know to be honest with you.
SPEAKER_02Actually, you know what? Alpha channel?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, alpha channel.
SPEAKER_02Probably oldest, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But what was your first big gear purchase? Like expensive one. Was it the Portugal or the Sigma? Probably. When we say expensive, how much are we talking? Um I mean the Alpha Channel was probably around a thousand, probably like upwards of three thousand.
SPEAKER_00I wouldn't consider alpha channel, like alpha channel is the entry level to high-end, but I don't I wouldn't consider it like the the staple piece and stuff. It's like it's just the first entry level of like it's above the you know uh what what was in like a sub thousand dollars things.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like maybe like a focus right preamp or something. Like, yeah, it's I mean it's like look at the end of the price is price. It's not it doesn't always uh it doesn't always uh reflect the actual value of the piece. But I think my first bigger purchase, I think it was probably speakers that would be the more expensive things. True, fair enough, yeah. I think it was fair enough. I've had spe like I've had those speakers, event, TR. Oh, those used to be in Studio B, right? Yeah, yeah. Event I forgot, like a three-way speakers. I think at the time they were like two thousand dollars. Yeah, and that was a lot of money. It was like two thousand, you know, it was like two thousand dollars like man, long time ago, probably like fifteen years ago. Damn, that's crazy. You know what I mean? So two thousand bucks fifteen years ago was a lot of money. Yeah, you know, nowadays it feels like two thousand dollars, man, it barely gets you anything.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, a hundred percent. So I guess uh another thing that people have questions about um when it comes to gear, is is there one piece of gear in the chain that is the most important and one that you should invest in more than others? So if I'm thinking about like signal full, like is your converter the most important, or is your preamp that's the most important, or is it your speakers that are the most important?
SPEAKER_00Do you have uh everything is important? I look at it like is body, right? It's like what is the most important organ in your body? Is it the heart? Is it lungs? Is it your stomach? Is it your brain? I mean, try to live without a heart, try to live without lungs, you know, like it's impossible. So I uh and again, you know, maybe it's a little bit too extreme because obviously you can mix, you can mix with having converters and without having anything else, but you know, everything kind of comes together as uh one living organism. Um having everything top-notch from the from the bottom all the way up to the top, and there's no bottom, there's no top, everything is on top. But you know, starting with a converter, like having a great converter is gonna be half of your success. We're like a big part of your success because you can hear things, clarity, this, this, this, a punch. Like you can just like um excuse me. Um, what's the name of it? Uh focus right, uh Safari. No, not Sapphire. What was the red one again? Fireface? No, no, Scarlet? The Scarlet. Scarlet? The most legendary, the most legendary. I think everybody is Scarlet at some point. Definitely. And it's like it does the job. But if you try to mix with the Scarlet, it's like you set yourself in the very, very tough position. Oh, 100%. Because it's like it works, you can hear stuff coming your way. It's coming from the speakers, and all that, and like you can still make like it's still workable, you can definitely make it work. But once you start pairing it or like comparing it to stuff like you know, apogee or even normally, like anything that is like high-end, like is on that other spectrum, and then you hear the difference, the clarity, like all of a sudden you can hear things that you haven't heard with the with the focus right. Yeah, it just it just gives you a very different perspective, you know. Same thing like mixing on on KRKs is like committing a suicide. Yeah, yeah. Mixing on KRKKs is crazy.
SPEAKER_02You know, like KRK is actually crazy. It is crazy. It's so bass boosted, like your low end would never be accurate.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Never low end never accurate. You don't know what's going on on the top in the top end, like it's it's it's it's a different type of uh experience, right? 100%. But again, on the entry level, it's fine. But the thing is that I I I I think music is in such a weird place where it's like you have songs like even that song, the SD Kid. Oh, the one with Timothy Chalamet? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, man, this is so distorted. I know, I know, but that's the vibe though. But but that's what I'm saying, right? It's like I don't know who mixed it. I don't know, like, it's definitely done as an aesthetic. Yes, for sure. It's intentional. It's intentional, you know what I mean? But this type of intentional sound you can probably get it with a focus, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you probably could, honestly.
SPEAKER_00It would be it would actually probably be easier to get it with a focus. Exactly, you know, so so again, it's it's just one of those things where yes, having uh having an expensive gear you can have an expensive gear, but even without it, you can make records that still move people. 100%, yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, so I think when it comes to the your chain and what's the most important, it all works exactly like you said. It all works as one unit, as kind of one family. Yeah. And you you you need one, your chain is only as good as the weakest part of it. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So you could have um the best speakers in the world, you could have the the barefoots, you could have the ATCs, but if you're running them through a Scarlet, then they're only gonna be as good as the conversion of the Scarlet. Exactly. Right? So it it all works together, and I think that for me, when I was looking at my signal flow, you know, I think for me the Ryan was great, but I think the next level up for me was definitely to upgrade my conversion so that my monitoring could be even better than what I'm hearing right now. And I know that that would give me a big boost, and also it's a uh a future-proof um piece of gear as well. This is something that's gonna last me for a hundred percent at least.
SPEAKER_00Hundred percent at least. I mean, even for me, like you know, I've been using Orion forever, I still have it, but the reason why I got the Burl and the reason why I got an Oyman Exactly is for all those reasons, is because Orion is good on the output when I'm doing the summing and stuff. It's like, you know what? Would I love to get something a little bit better? Yes, but the price, price-wise, it just doesn't make sense for me to get anything else right now because I would have to I would have to spend a lot of money just to get those. Even I would be even fine with 32 channels, but 32 channels on that side, like this high-end, uh, it would be like minimum 8,000 bucks, which I don't want to spend. And that would be like higher end, but it's still not uh, you know, it's not what I would really want to have, right? But the thing is that on the input side, I got the the burrow, and that was already a very, very big difference in like how I hear the low end and how the low ends being translated uh from the from the API APIs. But the biggest game changer for me was getting the the Neumann. Because before I would monitor everything with Orion. Yeah. Once I got the Neumann, I didn't realize how much information I was lacking that I didn't hear.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I did it honestly, I didn't even know I had 136 uh for the dynamic range. I didn't even know that until you told me. That's pretty crazy, bro. That's that's more than even the apogee. It's insane. I think the apogee is 124 or 126.
SPEAKER_00Somewhere around that. Apogee is one, yeah, I think around that. Yeah, I think around like that. And I got it for a super blessed deal. I think I paid either 16 or 1800 for it. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02If only, man, if only they had a rack in it with more than two channels, that would be insane.
SPEAKER_00I think, yes, 100% it would be nice to have it in the rack, but I feel like this is a this is like you can pack it up, there's like a little baggy for it and all that stuff, and you can take it to places. So it's like even on the go, if you live in like uh you mix on the go type of lifestyle, and you have a great pair of headphones, you can take it with you and has a very high-end uh headphone amps. True. So it's like you can take it wherever you go, and you're gonna have that great conversion, great, great quality, and like you know, you're gonna have it on the in the in your hand basically. So how are the preamps on there? Have you used it before? I haven't used the preamps, I've only used the converters. Yeah, uh, but I would think that pre-amps are pretty nice, they must be. I wonder how it compares to the Apollo's, just like the twins. Man, you know how Apollo is, man. I I feel like Apollo, look, Apollo is probably the most popular um interface, yeah that is out there, and everybody uses it. Like I've had Apollo, I mean, I still have Apollo, yeah. You still have Apollo, yeah. Like, look, 90% of creators, 90% of like producers, engineers, anybody else, everybody got Apollo. Universal Audio made a lot of money of Apollo. They just keep milking the, you know, right now they have the vaults and this and that. They go all the way down to the bottom of the of the barrel, like entry level, and then they have like the higher ends, the 16s, the X, whatever they have. Yeah. But Apollo is alright, it has alright conversion. I never was a fan of Apollo like uh sound when it comes to like it's fine for live shows and all that stuff, but even like on the monitor level, I don't know. It it never like it never I I'm not sold on it.
SPEAKER_02But the conversion on the rack units, I think, are better than the the twins, right? Or is it the same converters?
SPEAKER_00I think it's the same conversion. Is it the same converter? Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's the same thing. Okay, true. I think the higher ones, like the the X16s or whatever the the top of the line is, they might have a little bit different converters. Um but I I remember like I had the old one, the one that uh we use for like touring and stuff, the Anders, the one that he had. Uh so I've used it a lot, and it sounded pretty much the same as the other one.
SPEAKER_02Okay, true. So that's interesting because I would have thought at least the rackiness would have better conversion. Because it just makes more sense, right? They're so much more expensive. I guess I guess and outputs.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but you're looking at the at the uh channel count more than anything, right? If you if you're looking at the small one, you're only looking at what four, right? Four four inputs, four outputs? The twin? Twin, yeah. No, it's two.
SPEAKER_02The twin, yeah, sorry, the twin is two, the x eight is eight, and then sixteen is sixteen.
SPEAKER_00Right? So it's like and mind, they they all have preamps, and you know, that's another cost on top of that. So there's uh I at the end of the day, there's a difference if you have something that it just has conversion and something that has both conversion and the preamps. Yeah. Because then you're looking at the at the higher cost, right? Of the thing. So and I I watched uh I didn't uh I I read some something of it was on the audiophile, um like on the audio in the audiophile world that there was a converter, like a high-end converter for like you know, the audio files. And it was a couple of thousand dollars, like five, six, seven thousand dollar converter, like a little thing and this and that. But somebody found out that the actual chip of the conversion is a$30 chip.
SPEAKER_02That's it? Yeah, that's insane, man.
SPEAKER_00You know, so what converter is this? Ah, forgot. It was like, you know, I'm not in the audiophile world, there's like a whole bunch of brands and all that stuff. It wasn't like any of the pro audio gear that we know, it was some other things. But it's just the fact that sometimes we don't really know what's inside. Whether it sounds good or it sounds bad, like uh uh like for example, the and I'm not even trying to like I'm not dissing or anything because I don't know what's inside, but um Prism. Prism sound? Yeah, Prism Sound. Like, you know, their converters are like top of the top of the chain when it comes to the price, the everything.
SPEAKER_02I think the I think when I was looking when I was doing research when before about the apogee, the Prism sound, I think for just eight channels was like 15 bats. Something like that, which is insane.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it looks like it looks like you can conduct the surgery with this. Yeah. Just the way how it looks, is like it looks like you can put it in the in the spaceship, you can put it in the studio, you know. It's it's like it seems like it has so many more uh benefits of just having it. But again, I haven't tried it. I so I don't know. I would love to have like a week with every single converter and just plug it in into my setup and like really, really compare the differences and understand what the difference is between this and that run mixes with exactly the same settings. But again, I feel like converters are also a big part of like how you mix. Because if you mix something with something, you're gonna adjust your decisions to what you're mixing with. So even when you change it to something else, then the decisions that you made were done with a very different ideology in the first place. Right, right, right. So because I remember like when I got the the D-Box for the first time and I was mixing without it, and then I just plugged it in and rerouted everything to D-Box, I couldn't really tell what the hell was going on. Like I like I heard the difference, but it's like it wasn't that crazy of a drastic. It wasn't that drastic. But then once I started mixing into it, then I realized it's all about like how you mix into it. Yes. More than just changing it, you know, at the end of the at the end of the chain.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I agree. It's that's why, again, it's like you you can't just plug something in and expect your mix to run through in and boom, it's it's perfect. It's all about how you mix into it, how you adjust the settings based on how you're mixing. That's that's literally what it's all about. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_00Uh what is it? Are we looking time-wise? I think we're good time-wise. I was about to wrap it up. Yeah, before we wrap it up, I have one more thing. Okay, no, no, no. Go ahead and do your things. One question. Say what you want to say. I don't even want to say anything, I want to ask you a question. Ask me a question? Yeah, yeah. Okay. If there was one plugin that would you would love to have a hardware version of it, what would it be?
SPEAKER_02Take your time, young grasshopper. That's a great question. I mean, bro, there's a lot of plugins I wish I had a hardware component to it. Just one. Just give me one. Just one? I'm not gonna lie. You might think I'm crazy for this. I wish the R compressor had a hardware unit, man. Interesting. I love R compressor unit. I love the R compressor.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I you know what? I'm I mean, but I feel like the hard hardware of R compressor would be so boring, bro. Bro. It would be it would be like two knobs, bro.
SPEAKER_02I don't know. For me, is I use the R compressor so much, man. Like I and I think the R compressor, if honestly, is my favorite compressor because I think it's so useful for so many different things. Yeah, you can use it on vocals, you can use it on pianos, guitars, like you can use it on your bass, you can use it on your kick. Like, it's so flexible and it's so easy to use, and I think it has a great sound. And uh bro, I love the R compressor, man.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I'm not gonna lie, man. I'm not gonna lie. I used to be a biggest hater of art compressor. I used to be uh I used to be like a hated art compressor like back in the day, but uh Rajan, he uh he always used it when I was mixing like his stuff, he always had it on. So he was like, yo, R compressor, our compressor. And he sold me on it. I'm not gonna lie. It was like I started using it, and right now I use it every single vocal. And then my chain is our compressor. If I want to push it, 2DB, R compressor. That's what I'm saying. I love the R compressor. It does something that it just smooths the top, it still pushes it a little bit, it gets the mid sitting in a nice place. It makes it very pleasant, yeah. It's very I wouldn't be mad at it. I wouldn't be mad at having uh arc compressor.
SPEAKER_02And then you have the warm mode, you have the smooth mode, you have the arc release behavior, you can do it manually. Like it's bro, it's there's a lot of features.
SPEAKER_00I'm talking about Rvox.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I'm talking about R compressor. Oh, okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So we're talking about two compressions. We're talking about two different things, but they come from the same generation.
SPEAKER_02But yo, the thing is for me, I use R compressor and Rvox together. Oh, for sure. You know what I mean? Like on my vocals, I'll throw on the R compressor, and then right after I'll throw on the Rvox. Gotcha, gotcha. So I use them in tandem.
SPEAKER_00Gotcha. I use Rvox all the time. But I think it's like Rvox is basically sonically very similar to R compressor. There's just no attack release. There's like it's just one setting. Yeah you know, slid it in and all that stuff. Yeah, that's cool. What about you? I think for me, I think for me it would be uh Ozone Exciter.
SPEAKER_02Ozone Exciter?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. That would be sick. Ozone exciter in MS mode. In MS mode too? Oh, that'd be sick. Man, I already can't I can already visualize the unit in front of me. Yes. The tubes? No, I don't think uh maybe tubes. Actually, you know, good, but they would have to have so many different mo modes because there's the tubes, there's the the triodes, the dude. That's true. There's like a couple of five different modes. That's true, yeah. There are a lot of different modes that would be expensive.
SPEAKER_02I don't even want to think about it. I don't even know how that would even work. Yeah, look. They might have to make individual units for every single mode.
SPEAKER_00Facts. I'm not look, I'm not I'm not the expert when it comes to designing those things, so I have no idea. But I think we're good. Let's wrap it up. It's been uh it's been a good good episode, and um, yeah, we're gonna we're gonna start getting some guests sometime. Yes. It's just everybody's busy, so it's hard to get people in. But people are coming, don't worry, you know? 100%.
SPEAKER_02All right, wrap it up. Yeah, guys, appreciate you guys tuning in again for another episode. You're ready to know. We're back here every single two weeks. So stay tuned for the next one. Thanks again. All right, peace out. Peace.