From DJ To Engineer: OTR Shares His Come Up

We’ve got our first guest, OTR, in the building. We discuss his work as both a DJ and engineer, his come up, and real insights on DJing, engineering, and the music industry.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Behind the Console. As usual, my name is Derek. I'm Dad, and this is OTR. Otr in the building. Let's go. We have a special guest with us today, man. Mixed by Otr. We'll drop his uh IG handle below here. But yeah, man, so let's start with you. So can you just give us a brief background of how you started in music and your journey to where you are today? Yeah, I mean, started out DJing.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

That was like what, you know, really was the music side of everything. And then uh got into engineering or got into production. And then got into engineering, came to school. I went to school at Totrebus. Um, and uh I didn't learn what I wanted to learn, so I was hungry to figure it out. So then yeah. Um from Ottawa, so came to school in Toronto, moved back to Ottawa, um, built a home studio to start figuring it out, running sessions, doing all that jazz. And then in between, I guess, 2016 and 2018, I started to come to Toronto and ended up at 669. Crazy. And um, you know, I I'd come to Toronto every couple of months with my iMac. Yeah, I remember that. You used to pull up to the studio and be with the biggest computer and just be running studio sessions downstairs and um, you know, met met Dot, met all the guys, and then moved here in 2018. And then yeah, we just, you know, just been working since. Worked at a bunch of different studios, uh, had my own studio. Um worked was part of remix. Now I'm helping out teaching at remix and you know, uh mix from home pretty much and have a couple places that I do sessions out of. But yeah, man, it's been uh it's been a journey for sure. The real grind. You've been to the whole entire system, you know. Yeah, from the trenches, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

That's far, man. So, how did you eventually transition from DJing into engineering? Like, how did that happen?

SPEAKER_01 1:59

So, DJing has always been, I still DJ to this day. Um, but getting to like even engineering, OTR was originally a collector. So it was me and a couple of my homies, and um, they were like the artists, and I was the producer at that time, you know, like I was getting into production at least. Uh, one of the homies he would produce, um, write his own stuff, record his own stuff, and then two of the other homies, their brothers made music. So we were kind of like all always around that growing up. And yeah, so OTR was originally a collective, and I my name is like my parents called me DJ, just my initials growing up, everyone called me DJ. So they just went by like DJ OTR. And then, so yeah, when I moved, uh when I came to school, I didn't really like I knew my friends, like they were recording like on Don't Be Edition and stuff like that. And I had already started using FL Studio, but like actually going to school, that was when I really got introduced to like what engineering is and like what they actually really do. You know, seeing the consoles, at first I was like confused, like looking at consoles, you know, until you kind of get it that like every step is the same in a sense, but yeah, it was like it was really school that like got me to a place where I was like, okay, I really want to do this, right? Um, and then that's kind of how the engineering journey started. I was like 2014. You see, Travis? I went to Travis, yeah. So you were doing Travis and Trav, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I I I uh took a year off after high school, yeah, just worked, and originally I was gonna do like an international business program. I always wanted to do something with music, but I was like, maybe the business aspect might be able to help me, you know, do the business stuff or at least have that back end kind of like you know ready to go. Yeah. Um, because I was already, like I said, I was DJing and I was I was starting to produce. Like I was just I was shit, but yeah, I was making beats in FL Studio. Um, and then yeah, so I ended up applying to Travis the year that I was off school, and I got in, and then yeah, I just came pretty much moved here for for that. And then yeah. What was the difference between Ottawa music scene and what was going on there at the time at Toronto? I think there was definitely a lot of people making music. I wouldn't say that I was like fully indulged in the scene, and I don't think that there was there's definitely a lot more going on now in the music scene, but even at that time, I don't think that it was uh as easily accessible or it wasn't easy for you to to uh even see what's going on at that time. I only really knew what was going on because of the homies that was making music, right? Yeah, so like because they were making music and some of them were actually um, you know, doing really big things. Like one of my homeboys at the time, um, crazy, he just messaged me yesterday, but his name was he went by Dylan Switch. And he was like, he like win three-star battles. Like he's like battled like Sharon, but he's also like riding his own stuff, shooting his own videos, producing his own beats, like going to his crib, you'd see like the whole like egg carton setup, and that's where he was like recording stuff, and like his stuff sounded real good. And so that was kind of the guy I would say, like outside of like my two other homies, their older brothers, outside of them, those were the guys that I was around that were making music. So that was kind of like the influence. Now it's a whole different playground. Like there is a lot more going on. I know about all these different studios. Um, once I finished school and went back, that's when I was really, that's when I really started to get tapped into like the industry side of the music things. And like at first, I was working at this one studio, uh DLBD, and Josh, who was the main engineer there, uh he was he used to work at this studio back in the day. Um, totally forgetting the name right now, but that was like a place where like Belly and like Masari and like all those guys were like, they would go there. It was like that, it was like the spot at the time. And because he was a bit older, he was around and in the in the industry at that time, in those rooms at that time. Um, when I started working with him, he already had his own spot, and it was kind of just like me getting my feet wet and just like working with all these different, you know, different styles of music, different artists that I didn't really know. But when I was in school specifically, when I was here, I was kind of already trying to connect with people back home. So as soon as I got back home, I had a couple people who knew me and like they're ready to work, you know? Um, and that's kind of how I like got started, even just like recording like anybody and stuff like that. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

So would you say, like, because you're both a DJ and an audio engineer, would you say one, like both things help each other? So does DJing help you become a better engineer, or does being an engineer help you become a better DJ?

SPEAKER_01 6:38

I would say DJing probably helped me become a better engineer just because like you understand music in a certain sense, you understand format, you understand bars, um, you understand, at least for myself, it was easy for me. I also like had played a couple instruments like growing up. So like I had like an ear for like keep. I had an ear for like what's what's in tune and what's not in tune. So when it when it came to engineering, it's not that it was easy, but I think for me, what engineering, what I loved about engineering the most was that it felt like a real challenge where DJing kind of felt a little bit easier. And that's because I had other DJs around me, like my parents' friends and stuff like that, that like I was influenced. So like I'd go back to Jamaica and I'd see DJs, and like I was influenced by that. But the engineering, I had nobody who was like, even my friends who like, yeah, they were recording and mixing their own stuff, they weren't technical at all when it came to engineering, it was just them figuring it out. So for me, engineering, what I really loved about it was like it was it was a challenge. It was a challenge for me to get to become good at it. It took me like years. Like, I remember specifically in school, one of my teachers was like, I can't teach you how to compress, you just have to listen. It's just you just have to you just have to do it and figure it out. Right? And he was a mastering engineer who's done like a lot. Yeah, he's he was he was you know decorated in the in the mastering engineer world. But to me, it was crazy to hear that from a person that I feel like I'm paying you money to teach, you know?

SPEAKER_03 8:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

So for the longest time, it was just like, yeah, I just didn't know what I was doing, you know. Like, even looking back at records, a lot of the times, um, even when I started working at DOBD, like I was really working based off a template. And this template was like, you know, those studios where like the template just works for everything, right? So it's like you just drag this here and maybe you might tweak a little one too, but like everything just works. So like even when I had opened up my own home studio, I wasn't going based off that template anymore. I had to kind of like restructure that, re-figure that out. And then when I moved to Toronto, I was working in a whole different room, you know. Being I I would be trying to mix in like the room that we had with Brandon and Kev. Yeah, and then going into Studio B and like trying to mix over there. Yeah. And then like any place that I had an opportunity to mix, I'd be mixing, but it's just like now I'm starting to figure out, okay, maybe I'm I'm relying too much on presets or like on what I think would work based on the templates that I was using before, and not realizing like that's not it's not trans, it doesn't allow me to translate in these different things. Then just just to what you just said, working at different studios and kind of going from studio to studio, how did that affect you how you was mixing, or like because you know when you don't really know the room 100%? You go from one room, it sounds different here, then it sounds different here, then it sounds completely different here. Like, how did you tackle that that challenge? That was a that was one of the challenges that, like, until I got my own space, really, or I guess for the most part, like once I was doing a lot more work out of out of the B studio, it was like, okay, well, now I'm gonna try to not work anywhere else because yeah, it was it was hard for me to like I would literally take a record and work on it here and then work on here and then go home and work on it there and do it, like you know, all these different places. And like I didn't, I still wasn't understanding that, like, why it wasn't sounding different. I was like, okay, wait, well, sounding sick over here, right? Like the kick sounded good over here, you know, and then so it took me longer to finalize records. 100% took me longer to finalize records. You got different rooms, different speakers, different interfaces, and everything. And that's the thing too, like, even on the speakers, like switching speakers, you know, you're using all these different speakers. Like, that's one thing that like I never ever really took into account until like now, like I need to get a new pair 100%, but I'm still mixing on the 2030s. Oh, you still got the 2030s? I was like, damn, I have NS10s with a Bryson. Yeah, yeah, uh Bryson, and um, and then I have the 2030s. I'm like, but you should be a master of this those speakers by now. That's the thing. Like, I can like I can mix a record on those speakers quicker than I can mix a record anywhere else. And like, I obviously my ears are way more developed now, so I can go to different rooms and I can figure it out. But like sometimes I'll go to like let's say post office and they got the Normans, um, what is it though? The big board is from 20s with the bigger ones. And um, I'll go there and like the rooms well treated, things sound really good. I'll get things dialed in exactly the way that I want them to. And then after the session, I'll just when I get home, I'll just make sure I go and just check and I'll dial in a couple things. But like more, more most of the times if I'm home and I mix a record and I go somewhere else, I'm like, okay, I don't have to dial in anything because yeah, I've just been using them. I started using them here, yeah. Right? I mean, don't be those speakers are still really good speakers, regardless. They they are. That's why I have them. That's why I use them. I've had how many different speakers, and like the only speaker that I ever bought again was the NS10s, you know. Outside of that, like I'm just stuck with these these 2030s, and I now have um this like rune correction thing from uh IK multimedia. They have the the MKR the R2. Is it R2? Yeah, how do you how do you find that? And honestly, I love it. I think it's it's amazing. Luckily that they sent it to me. Um, and it's been definitely um a game changer for me, just because my space isn't really that treated, anyways. Mixing, I mix in my living room. So it's kind of like my living room looks like like my playground, but it's also like where I really, you know, where the work done. So um I don't have too much treatment at all, to be honest. Like if anything, it's the furniture that's really the treatment, you know, couch and the carpet, and I have a couple of panels up. But having that honestly has made a big difference. Even with that, I think it like shaved off some times on my on my mixing, like I'm getting things done a bit quickly. Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

Do you mix with uh because you've been switching, you were you were switching so much between studios and studios. Did you try using like more headphones so that at least something would be consistent in every studio for you to like reference? You know what?

SPEAKER_01 12:48

I've tried the only headphones that I really like are the Sony, what is it, the ND50706? Those ones are probably the only headphones that I found that like if I do want to do something on headphones, I can use those. I've like, you know, buying expensive headphones and like sitting down with them, I haven't done that yet. I have tested out like the Manu Rock adjoints, Manus 100s, right? And then one yeah, um I'll do this, yeah. And I I've tested out obviously while I ran through like the audio technical is like the shirts and stuff like that. But yeah, I've never really been a headphone guy. So for me, if anything, headphone maybe like I'm on a plane and I'll just prep mix, you know. Like, yeah, but like actually mixing, I uh have I I don't I don't wanna I don't wanna even do that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

I don't think me or dot are big headphone guys either. I only really use my AirPods to just reference. That's pretty much it.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Yeah, for me, it's like I would reference on headphones. Um if I'm doing uh if I'm doing like um uh Atmos, then I don't have a full Atmos setup, I would use the headphones for that. But uh, you know, when I do Atmos, I usually already have everything mixed on the stereo side and like bring it into Atmos session and kind of like rebalance it, spread it out, do all the Atmos stuff. So it's like I already have an idea of the of the record, yeah. But yeah, headphones are like, I mean, man, I don't know, man. Brandon is he was he's mixing on the uh AirPods. Nah, AirPods? Yeah, he's mixing on AirPods. He said that 80% of the mixes he does right now is on AirPods because he knows them so well. And he has Madden's too. Yeah, he has the Manis, yeah. So he references on Madden's, but he mixes on AirPods. That's crazy. That's why I wanted him here, you know, but he was scared of the camera. I mean, I can rock with that though, right? Because like everybody uses AirPods. Yeah, so if you get them sounding good on that, then you it's kind of like an automatic, like it's kind of like it's it's referencing, but yeah, he makes it do the reference, yeah. I I I agree, but at the same time, it's almost like almost like let's say, and though there's having a Honda civic, but you also have an ability to have a Ferrari, but you choose Honda because everybody uses Honda. If you know what I'm trying to think about, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know what I mean. It's like yeah, you're going with the most common thing, but then it's like you're missing on the bigger picture because you're going with what's common, not what it what it can be.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

Yeah, you know, so I feel that I agree. So uh so you said you went to Travis, and I went to Metalworks, so I just want your opinion on this. But do you think today, so maybe not back then, but today in 2026, do you think going to school for engineering, getting an education and just like a formal education, do you think that's worth it? Or do you think it's necessary in 2026? Would you recommend it to someone if they asked to you?

SPEAKER_01 15:27

So I'm gonna say I'm gonna tell a story. I don't even know if I should I feel like tell us how many. Tell the story, we tell the first story. So uh my second semester in school, well, for actually, I'll start for fourth semester in school. We have like a Pro Tools class.

SPEAKER_03 15:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

And all the teacher really did was give us a form, a sheet, says color code, name, EQ, volume, like balance, but like the EQ points is like EQ here, here. He like it's tell he's telling you what to do. He came around, looked, cool, and fast like that. Like, I was just like, really? And I know not every school is like that. Yeah, yeah. You know, some even for us, like, I don't know, maybe I just chose not the best school, but like I remember like for our exam in third semester, the board, we just had like random random days, you get random feedback loops on random channels.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

Also, like the board would just like there'd be issues with the board.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Random days, random feedback loops, random channels. Like, and like you just have to work through that. And it's like, okay, I get that. It maybe it can prepare you for the real world, but it's also like when you don't even know what you're really doing, this is the worst way to be learning, you know? But the story is um, so second semester we're at uh studio 306. At this time, this is where Gadget was working. Um, if anybody's familiar with Gadget, he's you know uh a guru in the city of Toronto when it comes to like hip hop from the 90s up until all the way up until Drake, the whole a lot of the OVO stuff. Um 40 learned a lot from him. He mixed pretty much a lot all Drake's albums up until I think it was like maybe after um use or so. Um if you ever see Noelle Gadget, that's who I'm talking about. So he was mixing at that studio. That was his workplace of work.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

And remember the first day we're there, I walk in, see the take care of the take care of plaque, and see the Grammy, see a Raven. It was like when Ravens just came out. So like this Slate Raven? Slate Ravens when they just came out, and we're in this, we're in Studio B, he's in his studio, and the walls are shaking. Like we're hearing party next door, we're hearing Regin, he's just mixing, mixing, mixing. He mixes loud, that's why he's yeah, his ears is like shots, and he's mixing in there, but he mixed loud. And uh it was this studio was in Regent Park or uh or Sherbour, sorry. So obviously, you know, it's not the at nighttime in your gets over there. Yeah, so a lot of us, and it was a late class, we finished class at 11. So a lot of us just as soon as we were done class, we left out. It was the first day, we're just kind of like, all right, cool, boom, head out. Uh, a homie of mine who ended up sticking around and talking with Gadget, Gadget literally told him, like, drop out of this school. What? He's like, take the money that you're gonna that you paid for the school. If you can get your money back, take the money and go invest in some good speakers, some outboard gear, some stuff that you can track with, potentially, you know, maybe some stuff outboard gear that you can mix with that if that's what you want, a good microphone, good computer, all the plugins, and just lock in on learning that and come learn with me. And you can come learn with me. But just um have get make sure you take that money and do that. And my my friend didn't do that. He didn't take he did what the opportunity that's crazy. I remember the paper. Yeah, I mean uh I remember the so like at that point too. I remember him saying, like, Chubbis had already taken, like, they already processed money too, right? But I remember him also saying, like, another teacher of ours actually was there at that time, and he got upset that Gadget told him that, you know. But all I had to say was true though when someone of that caliber is telling you, like, learn the gear, yeah, you know, buy it and learn the gear and like you know, figure it out that way. I think the best way when it comes to engineering is just doing, you know. I don't feel like school is always going to be the best, especially when you know it's one teacher teaching 30 kids. There is really no one-on-one, there's no like you're not really catering to how this person might listen or what this person's like, what they really want to know. And the and the range of of uh what everybody knows is different. We had a guy in there who was like already good with tracking, plays guitar, he had a whole band that he mixes for, and then we had guys who didn't even know who what they wanted to do. Some of them 90% of them aren't even doing music anymore, you know. So they just put everybody in one class and be like, you guys figure it out, do you know? I think I wouldn't necessarily recommend if unless that's your way of learning. But I feel like if that's your way of learning, the money that you spend to do that, you can really, there's so much information online right now. There's so much courses online. There's like, you know, so many things that you can that you can there's so many other ways to learn right now versus going and spending like 20, 40, 50, 60,000 on engineering school. I agree. And I've never once used my my diploma, I've never had to show my certificate. No one cares. Nobody cares. No one cares. Uh and uh we there was like a seminar, one of the engineers. I forgot what his name was. But I remember a kid comes with uh with a diploma and his resume, and he's like, I'm looking for an internship. And he's like, look at the guy, and the guy's looking at him confused. He's like, I don't know what you want me to do with this. This is literally his answer. I don't know what you want me to do with this. That's good.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

Yeah, so you know I will say though, I think the only time that uh a diploma matters is if you try to get an internship at like a bigger commercial studio. So I know um even at like Noble Street, they only hire they they were only hiring people from like fan shower metalworks. Like if you didn't have uh a diploma, they would not hire you as a turn. Really, I think some commercial studios they they don't hire just anyone. That's the only thing I would say.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

I think yes, but I also find I I think in this engineering world, there is different types of engineers. There's guys that are designed to be in a commercial studio and be like the assistant engineers, yeah. The the assistant engineers, the engineers, and all that stuff, and there's guys that just like float around and they just like have a little bit different idea of engineering and all that stuff, you know. I will say, like, because I've been able to, you know, work in like a smaller studio. Own my own studio, work at some big boutique studios, work for a label. Like, as much as I loved being at a label, what I didn't like the most was just like you kind of have there's so many channels that you have to kind of go through. Um you're not really given the same shots that you would be given, even like at a big like boutique studio, like the Orange Latch, you know. Um there's just so many channels you have to go through. And then also there is like there can be limits to who you can work with and you know, all that stuff. But like the you know, the stability is great. If there's something that we need in this music industry, it's stability. So this stability is great. But outside of that, I also I like being malleable. I like to be able to, if I want to work with you, I can work with you, I want to work with you. Yeah, if we got something going on, we could, you know, if I want to go to LA tomorrow and figure that out, we can do that. You know what I mean? I like I like the idea of that because it allows me to really grow when it comes to like my career path. And and also it's like I'm not as disposable because I get to make the choices, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

There, yeah. I think uh usually when you're working at like as an assistant at a commercial studio, you don't really have much time to like do your own stuff because you're there on the clock, right? And you're on a salvage.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Yeah, a lot of the guys like you know, going to LA and working out of places like Westlake and stuff, like even like the assistants, they're like they're like on a strict time. Yeah, they can't like even they gotta like be an assistant for like a year or two years before they even get an opportunity to like run sessions, you know, like and things like that. And some guys, it's worth it for them because they go through that process and it's like you know, the whole like sweeping the floors, getting the coffee, doing the runs. Yeah, they go through that process, and then they end up being the big next, you know, David Kim, or like you know, whoever that next big pioneer is that went through that realm. But sometimes it's like, man, that it's tough to have to do that. I would say, like, this again, I might be wrong, I might be right. I don't know, it's just my prediction, but I feel like what you're saying is true, maybe like 10 years ago. Because I feel like right now the music business shifted so much from the commercial studios that I don't know if that path is gonna have like, think about how many commercial studios shut down in the past like decades. Yeah, you know, I mean, I was watching uh there's like a documentary about music business in LA, and they were basically saying like all the biggest studios that were doing this and that and that, like a lot of major studios shut down. Yeah, there's still a couple of them. I'm not saying every single one shut down, but it's just like everything is shifting so fast. And again, look, 20 years ago, 10, yeah, but 20 years ago and stuff when like the major big studios were actually like where you can get the records done, it was a very different world where nowadays it's like even the guys that have like millions of streams, a lot of those mixes are just done in their house.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

Yeah, you know, I mean even like uh Leslie Brathway, like he mixes in his car. It was just an Apollo mixer.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Yeah, it's crazy. So I I feel like, and again, uh even even like around in the studio, I feel like the overhead is always so high. Yeah, uh, and like you know, I have like uh I don't even I don't want to say small studio, like a medium-sized studio, one room, but it's like it's decent enough. The overhead is pretty high, but then like if I'm thinking about the guys that have like uh like Orange Lash, for example, or anybody that has like a big, big commercial studio. I don't even want to think with the overhead mic, yeah. Yeah, all the repairs and maintenance. Yeah, it's it's like and even just the expectations that come with it, like you know, clients go to those studios, they expect that you're gonna have snacks. Yes, so you're gonna have like you're gonna have all these things, like it becomes it becomes a lot, 100%. Yeah, so I love big studios though. Like, I mean, the vibe is I I think it's just like there's there's a magic about the studio studios, yeah. I mean, and like I remember when I was younger, when I was a kid, just looking just at the pictures of the big studios and like being in those rooms, like it got me feel a certain way. Right now, I'm like, I feel like for me right now, it's like when I go to even like big commercial studios, maybe when there's like an SSL or something, I'm like, oh, you know, but everything else when it comes to the gear, I have a lot of gear. So it's almost like the gear doesn't like, I'm like, I already have this, I got this, I got that, I got this. So it's like it doesn't like hit me as much as back in the day it was, you know.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

For sure, yeah, for sure. So, what are your thoughts on uh analog gear?

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Do you like using analog gear or are you just and what made me not rush to analog was the fact of like like I was saying before, I was moving around like room to room to room to room and I felt like I wasn't getting good. So it's like, what's the point of me rushing to use hardware if I'm still not, you know, if I still don't have a dial big now in 2026? Like, yeah, I'm about to start building my little chain. The idea really is just, you know, I just want to obviously up the conversion and maybe have a couple pieces that I'll run through at the end of a mix. Yeah. Um, maybe not so much depending on it to to get like through a mix, but it'll be more so like things that I can like uh have on like my my master bus or my mix bus, and then even just like the idea of like some summing stuff.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Um, but at the moment I'm fully in the box, but I'm I'm for both. Like there's been projects that like if I had the time to do it or if I had the budget, I'll run it through like I'll run the vocals and run some stuff, do some outboard gear, I'll run it through like the console over at at um at orange, and then you know, mix it down in the box and then maybe even bring it back to the console and run it back because they have uh the SSL over there is going through a lattery. Right. So like have a situation like that, you know, where I could push things a little bit more, and then you know, so I'm a fan of both 100%. And when it comes to tracking, 100% hardware. Like I do that's why I don't even like I don't enjoy tracking from home anymore until I get like maybe the setup that I would really want. But I just go to a studio that I know that has, you know, a good need, good compressor, and good microphone, so I can get the source like the way that I need to get it, and then from there I can just do what I need to do in the box.

SPEAKER_02 28:09

So, what's your ideal, like your perfect recording chain from like microphone to like even compressors or preamps? What would it be? Perfect recording chain.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Depends on the artist. So I'll say microphone-wise, uh Yung 67, U47, telefunken. Um those are so I say those three microphones, and then just give me a 1081, 1073, uh, and give me a CL1 beat, and then I'm pretty happy with just that. Yeah, solid.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

I feel like that's like the the most popular recording chain that we see people using these days.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the Sony. Like, I know I know it's great, I know it's great, but I'm just sometimes yeah, I just find it doesn't work for everybody. Yeah, um, I mean, no mic works for everybody, but like for me, it's not a mic that I like I'll run to. Yeah, but yeah. Yeah, I feel like C Hundred will have his own episode just talking about it, you know what I mean? I think it's it like, yeah, it's a phenomenal mic. It is, it gets stuff like right where you need it in the sense, but some I just find like there's times where it's like really it's just too bright. And like I don't want to have to fight with the top end. It's like me trying to. Someone sent me, someone sent me uh vocals the other day, and I was like, yo, what microphone do you have? They're like uh Audio Technica 2020. Oh I said, yo, get rid of this right now. Right now, 4040, 2020, get rid of it. I don't know. Audio Audio Technica had us in the chokehold back like 10 years ago, you know. I mean it's affordable, right? I feel like 4040 is not that bad. It's a little bit boring, but it's definitely much better than 2020. Oh well, yeah, I think like from 4050 and up, 4050 is a decent mic. Yeah, um, you can get the good thing. Yeah, but 2020, the the the worst thing about 2020 is that when you hear it a cappella, you're like, yeah, it's fine. As soon as they're mixing with everything else, like you can't get this shit to cut. Yeah, yeah. You gotta use all the saturators and this so great all it's so well, yeah. Yeah, it's crazy, man.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

So uh because you are a DJ and you you know you're in a club a lot, you you hear how the speakers sound and the sound systems like when you're mixing music, if you know something's tailored towards the club or if it's tailored towards streaming, do you change your approach because you know how it's supposed to sound in the club?

SPEAKER_01 30:33

I might change my approach on the mix bus, yeah, but not necessarily like anything else. Um and because also like a lot of these mixers have like some sort of like a limiter in the more like some sort of like gain massive situation. Um a lot of these clubs don't sound that good. Oh, yeah, in Toronto, it's very rare. Like there's a couple clubs that you know have good sound systems, and then there's some that they just don't sound that good. So my goal is to just get things to just translate the way they need to based on the record. You know, if it's I don't even look at it from the standpoint of like, is this you know uh a club record or blah blah blah. I just look at it as just like how is this record supposed to feel? You know, so it might be a record that an RB joint that's heavy on bass that will never get played in the club, but like I might mix it a certain way so that if it does, or if it's in the car, you know, it's it's hidden the way it needs to. And I will say, like, because yeah, because I I'm in the club and I'm hearing things, I find that like my mixes translate really well in the club. That's good. Um for the for the most part, like all the time when I I have a mix and like you know, I hear them back in the club, like even if it's another DJ that's playing the song, I'm like, oh sounds good, you know, it sounds tight, you know? Yeah, um, and that's like sometimes I don't even get to listen to these records as much. So in terms of like going into the club and hearing them, because I meant I might not play it sometimes, so right, you know, hearing other people play them and being like, oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:09

What club would you say in Toronto has the best sound system?

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Actually, I'm curious. I think hands down, um AMPM. AMPM? Yeah, I think AMPM has one of the best sound systems in the city for sure when it comes to nightlife. Um a lot of these other clubs, man, they're just it's just not it. And and uh it's funny, I thought about like, no, maybe I should start a business and just go around and like offer a service to like make these places sound right. A lot of them still think about it, but I feel like a lot of places might not be cool with you know spending the money. Umpm understands value when it comes to just nightlife or hospitality service, hospitality industry. Um, they just understand it from you know the bar to the music to the way they treat the DJs, the staff, to the lighting, to everything. So they get it. Um a lot of these clubs don't get it, you know. The also with the AMPM, the owners are the bartenders, right? So they're in because they're in the club there every night. They're seeing who's coming in, they're interacting with everybody. A lot of these clubs in Toronto, you know, the owner is just some rich guy who just has owns a bunch of spots and like he just brings his homies, whatever they fly in, or you know, has whatever celebrity go there, and that's kind of it. He's not really like involved in it, so they might not care as much to you know put that money in to make sure that the sound is sounding the way that it should be, you know. Right. I think uh I work with uh with a couple of venues, kind of do what you were saying, not fully with the sound system and all that stuff, but uh so one of the venues that I work with, they have an amazing sound system, the other one has the shittiest fucking sound system. What I always find with uh with the owners, it's kind of like what you said. Um they care about certain things, but I feel like ultimately they also kind of cheat with getting things done because they like, you know, they look at it from the you know, profits. And again, look, I get it, the rent, this and that, like everything costs money and all. But I feel like any any uh venue owners are watching it, having a good sound in the in the venue is gonna make the experience 100 times better for the people that are in the venue. 100%. You know what I mean? Because like it, I hate going to the like I always have my earplugs. Yeah, just in case. Because some places you go to, you just hear the scratch that's getting in your ears right away. I'm like, I'm not listening to that. Especially for you as a DJ when you gotta be behind the thing, horrible. Forget about that. Horrible. Sometimes playing at yeah, some of these clubs you're playing at them, and it's like, yeah, it's just it's yeah, it's horrible. And the I think there was there was for the longest time we're like, yeah, you leave and your ears are ringing, you know, and that's why I started even DJing with in-ears a couple years ago. Because it's just like now I leave the club and my ears aren't ringing, but yeah, you know, yeah, protect yourself. I have good protection when I'm DJing and then when I'm not. If I just pop out, I have always have earplugs with me, you know. Yeah, sure. I mean, I think it's essential, especially if you you know how many times a week do you DJ? Depends, but for the most part, at least twice. Um, but then there are weeks when it's like three, four times. Yeah, so yeah, it's like you definitely need earplugs or some type of ear protection. And like I I know like I I wake up the next morning knowing that I have mixes to do, yeah. So it's like, yeah, I yeah, I make sure that I'm on top of that 100%. I think for us it's it's really important just to like protect our ears by any means, by any cost, you know? Yeah, once the ears go bust, I mean that's basically over. Money makers are gone, it's done. It's done, you know.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

Can we get insurance for our ears?

SPEAKER_01 35:43

You know, athletes get insurance for like we could, we could. Uh but it there is, but you just gotta find the right insurance company that's gonna do it. But I know there's uh there's like hearing insurance, like whole bunch of other things. You can insure anything.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

So you know, insurance for like 10 M's and then just fucking go to the club 10 times a week, you know, and just blast it out. I was like, I can't hear anything. We like 10 million, we like 10 million right now. I remember one time, man. That's the that's like the hearing thing that really scared me. That was like time ago when I was working on like a whole bunch of things. I was like probably 2017 or something, 18. And I was mixing so much that I felt perfectly fine, but I was mixing like bro, I was going to like 20 mixes a day and the sessions and this and that, no, no breaks. And then, like, randomly I had the session, and I'm recording. I wasn't even recording loud. And then like I turned around and I just felt like uh it didn't pop, but it felt like the the the air just kind of got out of my ear, and I completely like lost it, dropped down to like 2k. I couldn't hear anything above that. That's crazy. I was so scared, I'm not gonna lie. That was the first time I I took three days off of like not, I wasn't at the I had like earplugs for three days, I wasn't listening anything. Yeah, you know what I mean? But crazy, but it's like just having those experiences makes me realize like, man, once you go to that point where your ears just cannot hear the frequencies, the way how you hear, there's nothing you can do. Yeah, truly like there's nothing you can compensate. There's is it's over. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

Do you guys uh ever get your ears cleaned?

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Uh yeah, I I do it usually twice a year. Twice a year. Yeah, I've actually never gotten my ears professional. Oh, really? I've never gotten my ears professional thing. I don't do like just growing up for a longest time, never been like the politics and stuff. Because my mom always told me it's not good. But like I was telling you guys earlier, like I did when get my ears checked, um, and hearing's hearing is good. The only time the only thing I would say with my hearing is like once I started to really like take music serious and start to really train my ears when it comes to like the cold, my ears are so sensitive now. So it's like I've got to make sure like they're blocked, you know. Like I gotta make sure that like if I'm walking around or doing anything outside in the cold, weather that like my ears are actually like covered or else like I really feel it like the next day or like even the just a couple minutes after.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

That makes sense. Yeah, that's some uh fun questions for you actually, just to like you know, wrap up the episode. Yeah, do it. So have you ever uh had a DJ set that just went completely wrong?

SPEAKER_01 38:21

No, I don't think I ever had a set that went completely wrong. I might have had sets where I wasn't feeling it, you know. Um yeah, where I wasn't feeling it, or maybe I just I feel like sometimes you're you're harder on yourself than the you know than the crowd is. So like there's nights where I play and I'm just like, you know, oh fuck I shouldn't have done that, or maybe I should have played this record instead. And then people will be like, yo, you killed it tonight. I'm just like, all right, you guys are here, and I'm kidding. So like, you know, but uh over the time, you know, you only get better. So yeah, I definitely don't feel like I've had like any giggings that I've completely like rocked it. There has been times where like let's say like I'm playing a song, and like obviously they might be, I might, I'm I'm drank in these, in these moments. I'm playing a certain record and like I'm loading up the next record and I drop it on the side that's playing, yeah, and until the song switches. And that's why it's good to note command quick keys, because it's just like command Z and then the song will actually pop back up on Serato at least. Right. So then I you know catch myself there. But yeah, there's been there's been moments like that, but yeah, that's I don't have to have like any like crazy okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

So do you say DJing is more like taste then as opposed to technical, or do you think it's a good mix of both?

SPEAKER_01 39:31

It's a good mix of both, 100%. It's a good mix of both. The the best DJs are to me are technically good, but also have really good taste. Um I think taste comes first, 100%. Well, because yeah, if you can if you can read a crowd and you know what like songs make people move or like what songs a certain crowd might want in that moment, that's gonna always outdo someone who's technically skilled, you know. Right. But if you can do a bit of both and or be strong at both, you're gonna be phenomenally nice. I have a question. Um kind of related on the with the DJing and engineering side. Uh when it comes to the payments, on the when it comes to getting the payments, we're gonna be here for a lot on the on the DJ side and on the engineering side, do you find that it's easier on one side than the other one, or do you have to do the same chasing on both ends? So I find I would definitely say engineering is way easier. It's way easier. Easier to interest it. Because for me, the way I work is I take a deposit, you mix the record, and I'll send you, we'll go back and forth, you know, what I have any revisions that whatever. We'll do the revision stuff, or maybe it'll be done in the first mix, whatever. Send you the the wave. Most artists want the files, you know. They or they at least want like an a cappella instrument or they want all that stuff. I don't send that until I'm paying the the next half. Right, right. You know, or say it's in a in a case where it's like I'm mixing the song and mastering it. Well, once the mix is complete, I get the next half and then what then I'll finish the master and send it over. Because I the way that I work, I'm kind of I mix into my or into my mix bus, which in a sense becomes like my mastering chain. With your layer and my limiters and stuff, I just make you know I have adjustments after that. So it's like once you hear the mix, the only nothing nothing's really changing, but maybe the volume, maybe some things, you know, clean up a little frequencies, you know, but like nothing changes to the point where you hear the master, and you're like, oh, you know, so from there it's like that's how it works with DJing.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

I'm there, I do my gig, and now I gotta wait. You know, do you take deposits for DJing? Or is that not I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 42:00

So I I should definitely should. But the issue with DJing is like there's just so many DJs, there's so many DJs now. So if I'm gonna tell you as an owner, hey, I need a deposit, just find another guy. Just go find another guy. If someone's coming to me from to from my taste and mixing, yeah, they're not gonna be like, uh, okay, well, I'm just gonna go with no, they like they want to come work with me. So they're gonna they're gonna figure it out.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

On the DJing side, it's like it's it's hard. So it really depends. Like corporate stuff, you always you're always you know really good. Um, sometimes it just comes down to having really good relationships with like the club owner or the person that's done that party, right? And like you'll you know, you'll get paid. But like there's one club in Toronto that ended up closing that was me like 1300. Damn. And uh, I won't be getting that. And homeboy who books me has never booked me again since you know. I had to like ask him a couple of times that's crazy for the money. So he just found another OTR. He just found another, yeah. He just he just worked with other ninjas, you know. So you know what's crazy? One of my boys, um, I don't know how that connects to the DJing part, but you were just talking about the venues. He used to work, he used to be a bartender, he knows like the back end of things. And he said that when it comes to venues and the payments, is the worst thing to get paid because there's so many people that just go in and out, bartenders, like anybody that's that's like affiliated with a club, they always change. It's a high turnover, 100%. So it's like they don't care about you giving them the service as much because they like they just gonna let you go, they just gotta find another person. Yeah, high turnover, so fortunate.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

Uh, last question I got for you is uh if you could only choose one, would you rather be the best DJ in the world or the best engineer? Well, it can't be both.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

Oh, it's the question, man. Yeah, man, like just gotta choose what. And let's say, like, okay, so you're saying the best. Like I could still be both. I can still do both, but you're just saying which one do I would it be the best at?

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Sure, you can do both, but like what would you actually no? That makes it too easy. If you could be the best at either being a DJ or being an engineer, that could be recording, mixing master, whatever you want it to be. So mixing engineer, mixing the biggest records in the world, DJs, you're flying all around the world, DJing the biggest parties, clubs, festivals, etc. I guess that's the difference.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

Man being the best DJ in the world, definitely more buying. I think I think being the best DJ would be it would be more money 100%. And I think more fun traveling and all that stuff. Um, you know, getting to travel and all that stuff. Mind you, I've I've I've traveled probably just as much at for engineering as I've for DJ. You know, and like I would say, even in the worlds of engineering and DJing, I'm a way more successful engineer, you know, based on my accolades than I am a DJ. But I just love DJing so much. You know, like it's literally my first love. Right. And then yeah, engineering is just something that I just want to be really good at. You know, like, and like with the engineering, it's like nobody cares. Like, yeah, thanks. You guys might care. You know, oh you're a sick at engineering, you know. But like person walk on the street, like nobody. If they see a sermon right now, they're gonna be like, they they not even know who that is. They don't even know who that guy is. A lot of engineers don't even know who the serpent is, you know? Like, yeah, yeah. He's like the top guy. So it's like I would love to, you know, I would love to excel and do them at the highest, both, you know. And um, but but I do feel like, yeah, I feel like DJing would like it just be more fun, yeah, more money. DJ is like you got more of a face, you know, diplo or anybody, everybody knows how diplo is like you're a whole brand. Exactly. You know what I mean? Like, there's so much more that comes with that. Um, so I would definitely say DJ. But yeah, makes sense. Yeah, my sort of question I had. You got anything else? I think we're good. It was it's pretty long already. Yeah, uh, but I think we gotta get OTR back again. We gotta get it at least for the next two, because I I think we didn't even scratch the surface with like a whole bunch of other things. I wanted to ask you about like the traveling, working on other projects and all that stuff, but we can keep it for the next time. Yeah, yeah, we'll do a part two. Yeah, wrap it up for sure. All right, thanks guys for watching. OTR check him out. Uh make by OTR, right? Yeah, so put it right there. Make your OTR. And uh, we're gonna see you guys soon time again. Yes, sir. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks for watching.