Behind The Console
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Behind The Console
Work-Life Balance In Music: Is Burnout Inevitable?
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Work-life balance in music, is it even real? Late nights, missed plans, constant pressure, this industry demands a lot. Is balance possible, or is it the price of success?
What's going on, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Behind the Console. As usual, I'm Derek. And I'm Dot. And today we want to discuss lifestyle, overall health, and mental health working as music creatives. So I guess you want to start us off. Do you think the first question I guess I want to ask you is do you think it's possible for anyone working in music to actually have a proper work-life balance?
SPEAKER_02That's a you know, it's a it's a tough question. I guess when you're up, maybe. Now when you're down.
SPEAKER_01Now when you're down.
SPEAKER_02That's true. Uh, you know, I I I feel like it's just one of those cases where there's always so much work that has to be done. Bills gotta be paid, and the deadlines have to be met. So it's uh it gets tough sometimes, and you know, everybody got expectations. And if you work with multiple people, you already know how it is. Yeah, everybody's messaging you, everybody's calling you. Hey, oh this mix, some some. Can you just turn the ad lib down at one something? Can you just do so? It's like it's always like that constant recall and this and that. And especially when you when you work with the analog domain, or like you have some pieces and uh pieces of analog equipment, you know, recalling the mix is not just click and open session, do it and bounce it. Yeah, it becomes a whole procedure where you have to like open the mix, recall it, yes, print it back in. If they ask for another revision, you have to do it over and over and over again. So it's like you know, sonically, yes, it comes with the benefits, but it also comes with the disadvantages when it comes to the speed. Yes, right? So it's like something for something. So just to answer your question, ultimately, I think there can be a balance if you want to make it a balance. Uh like you know, I I know guys who are engineers who are married, I know guys who are like, you know, they got kids and stuff. Like they they have they need to make time for family and all that, right? So it's like I guess for us it's a little bit different situation, a little bit different case because we just we just out here, you know. Yeah, we're working every day, yeah. So it's like I don't know. I I I feel like there is a way, and like sometimes I definitely have months where I'm like, I feel like I can focus a little bit more and just like a little bit more time for myself, but then when I feel like I'm giving a little bit more time to myself, I feel guilty that I'm not working.
SPEAKER_03Yes, I think that's that's the issue. It's like I think at the end of the day, we are our own boss, yeah. So we do create our own schedule. Um, so technically speaking, if we choose like if we woke up one day, I'm like, oh, I don't want to go to the studio. Like technically, I could not go to the studio. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02There's nothing that stopped me.
SPEAKER_03There's nothing that's stopping me from not going to the studio, but there's that guilt, there's that like, oh, am I missing out on this opportunity or am I missing out on making this money or whatever the reason is, you know? So it's like it's like this constant pressure that you have on yourself to always be performing as uh as uh the best that you could possibly be at all times.
SPEAKER_02You know, it's a different mentality, it's not like people that work for the government and they have two months free vacation. Exactly, yes. Then the fids and then they complain and they have to go back to the office. Yeah, you guys. I'm talking to you, all the people that work for the government. Time to time to wake up and actually do the work. Yeah, you know what I mean? So it's like it's just one of those things where look, I I feel like again, I might be completely wrong when it comes to that, but it just feels like Canada is a country that punishes you if you want to be productive. You know what I mean? Like, that's how it feels to me sometimes, right? Because like we do so much work and we always like we choose to be probably working seven days a week. Yeah, we do. You know what I mean? But then it's like on the back end of things, it doesn't really come with too many benefits, kinda, in a sense, but you know, it also comes with okay, we're just making money for the work that we were doing. Yeah, you know what I mean? So again, it's it's a trade-off, it's something for something, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's always a trade-off. And the thing is, you know, I was thinking about what you said, like when you're first starting off, maybe there's less of a work-life balance because when you're just starting, you're grinding, you're trying to work with as many people as possible, you're trying to get your name there as much as possible. So it's like, of course, you're gonna take every session, you're gonna do everything possible for you to advance your career. But I'm thinking, like, I'm also thinking when you get to the more higher levels of producing, engineering, whatever it might be. I feel like there are so many more things that come with that um responsibility that also causes you to also not have time. Because like now you have really strict deadlines, you have label deadlines, you have artist deadlines, and like people are always on you. And it's like you can't be so flexible or chill because like these people are giving you hard deadlines for things that need to be submitted at a certain time.
SPEAKER_02100%. But then when you're in that level, you can also set your price to uh, I'm only working for$100,000 and up, you know what I mean, or$200,000 and up, right? So it's a little bit different thing. If somebody comes to you and they're like, Oh, I want this, this, this, this, this, I'm like, Do you have a budget? No, it's like, okay, get the fuck out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's true.
SPEAKER_02You know what I mean? So it's like, I mean, I feel like music is in such a weird place because there's so many different layers of everything nowadays.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh, I mean, you know, even looking at it from perspective of production, producers, like back in the day, it was a normal thing for producers to have a rate half a million dollars or a million dollars for a beat. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like Scott Storage, Tim Belin, and all these guys, like their rates for beats were like ridiculous. You know what I mean? Right now you have 30 fucking men on one beat, you know what I mean? Yeah, that's true. Did you see I don't know if you see? So keep, right?
SPEAKER_03I don't know. I think possibly it was. He had a song with like 50 producers on it. He's like, Oh, I've set the world record for I think it was like 36 producers or something. Yeah, most of them producers on one song.
SPEAKER_02It's like, I mean, man, we were getting to the point where it's like I even saw the thing um on social media too, where there was like just those two songwriters that wrote for Summer Walker, I think it was. Okay. And uh the girl was basically saying that, oh, I I wrote I wrote song for uh Summer Walker's album and I'm closing the shift or something like that.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yes, yes, yes. It's like I know what you're saying. It's like people who have literally worked on Grammy Award-winning records or you know, very big records, but they're still working part-time jobs at like McDonald's or something like that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but at the same time, it's like again, I don't know this girl's uh resume. I don't know how many songs she's written. Like, I really don't know, I can't tell. But all I can say is that look, a lot of people think that you're just gonna have that one song, and it wasn't like even a hit or anything, it was just one of the songs in the album. Yeah, and that's gonna change your life. Yeah, it's like it just doesn't work like that. No, it doesn't work like that. You know what I mean? The grind is like it requires years and years of work and like building your catalog, building your name, like building things. And again, I think it's because people have that stigma or that vision of music industry what it used to be, where they think like, oh yeah, I wrote this song, I'm gonna get like$100,000 or$200,000, this, this, this. Like the times are changed so much. Even like record labels, even like here in Canada, like I know guys that produce stuff for like artists at the labels, and they would be like, they didn't even want to charge that much. They were like, Oh, we charge like$5,000 for a beat. And the labels are like, we're not paying you this. Yeah, our budget is$1,000. Yeah, and that's like big facts. Like, this is literally the the numbers that we that we working with.
SPEAKER_03That's just the way it is these days because everything's so saturated. You can buy a beat on YouTube for$30. So it's like everything has become so saturated and it has devalued the work of everyone as well. So it's like music has become more accessible to more people, which is great. People are able to make music without having to buy the most expensive gears, and they'll they can express themselves without having to pay much money. But at the same time, it's like everything has become devalued at the same time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, but I I feel like nowadays too, is like the value of music really comes from your catalog. Yes, like the amount of records you have, like the depth of your catalog is gonna be what's gonna was gonna put the value and really gonna put the the money in your pocket. Yeah, because with the catalog, you can be reaching certain things, like you can be reaching the sync, you know, the streaming, the this and that. Like you gotta build your build your brand so you can sell merge, you can like get fans. Like, there's so many different avenues of making money in this in this uh in this industry or like just in this world right now, where I feel like any anybody that gets the records, like records records, and they're like, oh, we're gonna we just gonna put in the streaming services and we're gonna get all the money from streaming. This is what's gonna like mess you up mentally. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because even certain things like uh Sirius, uh the radio, like uh what is it called? The series FM XMXM, yeah. So like these guys pay much more for streams than like for plays than uh streaming services. Yeah. For one stream on Sirius, you can be getting anything. I I I believe the number was anywhere from$30 to$120 per one.$30 for$30, yes, per play. That's crazy. So it's like, and on streaming services, for one stream you're getting like 0.000. So you're literally getting 30,000 times more money. Yeah, that's crazy. Play being played on something else, right? But it's just it's just one of those things where you have to treat it like a business and you have to understand that there's not only one way to go about things, especially nowadays. Yes, you have to build your whole entire structure, your whole entire uh dynamic of uh of you know, even when it comes to like just just just mixing and stuff. Why do you think there's so many engineers who have like, you know, they yeah, they do mixing, they have like online courses, they got this and they got that. Like there's you have to have multiple things to really connect to your primary business.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I agree. And I think even when it comes to um because again, a a big question that people always ask is um, can you can you actually make a living as an audio engineer? Can you actually make a living as a music producer? Yeah, right. And it's and it that relates to what you're saying because I think today you can't just solely rely on just recording or just mixing, like you need to do so many other things and also just take advantage of social media and and the internet world that we live in in order to push your brand and make money in in many different avenues. Because I think if you only just focus on like only recording, only mixing, only mastering, whatever it is, like not that it's not not that you can't make a living doing that, you of course you can, but it's like you need to uh take advantage of the resources and the opportunities you have to to really facilitate that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, 100%. 100%. Yeah, and I think even when it comes to things like production, right? It's like, yeah, you can you can be the producer that sells one beat on YouTube for 50 bucks times thousand, you know, thousand times, or you can be a producer that's trying to get like the major placement. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's so many like and man, there's some successful producers of YouTube that literally sold like you know, I remember this one, I forgot his name, but there was a guy who had an interview and he was literally selling beats of YouTube. This guy was making hundred thousand dollars a month. Yeah, cash selling even Cashmone.
SPEAKER_03Cash Money AP. He started on YouTube. I'm I well, I'm pretty I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he started on YouTube. But he was like one of the first guys to run the YouTube game, and then um and then he became successful of YouTube, but that gave him the opportunity to actually link up with big artists in the studio, do sessions with them, etc. But he's he's he's caking.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that and that's the way how you gotta do it, right? So it's like that's how you protect your mental sanity in this game, you know. I mean, you can be thinking, I think I I I think thinking one directional, one-dimensional when it comes to music, this is what's gonna mess you up. Yes, I agree. Because then you're only gonna have that one specific vision, and because you won't see anything else, you're gonna have like this this one tunnel vision towards the thing. If that doesn't work out, then you're gonna be depressed, you're gonna be this and that. Like, that's why there's so many people that just quit. Yeah, you know, I mean they do it for a year or two and then they realize how hard it is, and they were like, I can't do it anymore.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. What do you think are are some of the main reasons why people fail for anything? Like music producer, music, uh sorry, music production, audio engineering. Like, what do you think are some of the main reasons why people don't actually become successful? I think it's a skill thing, do you think it's a work ethic thing?
SPEAKER_02You think it's I think it's just some people are designed to live on the edge. Some people are designed to to like function with barely any money and just making it work, you know. I mean, until things work. Um, so I I think there's there's people that obviously we as human beings we crave for security. You know, I mean like job, I mean, well even nowadays, I don't even think jobs nowadays are secure. I feel like I I feel like the world shifted so much that it's like everything is kind of being on the edge with everything you do. But the idea that we have of what used to be safe is still there, right? Right? So it's like, I mean, even think about right now how many people are like losing jobs, how many like you know, tech sector is being like wiped up, wiped out, you know, I mean, by uh AI and all that stuff, or any other things, right? So I I think when it comes to being successful, number one thing is like you just you can't quit because it takes a long time for you to do it. But I also understand we have that mentality where you know people think that, oh, if if you're not gonna make it by 25, yeah, the it's case code. Put a time limit on themselves, you know what I mean? But the truth is that look, yes, you can be there's people like you know, Justin Bieber that was able to start making bangers when he was like 13 years old and all that stuff, you know. But there's people that really didn't have their first hit until they were like 30 something. Yeah, I think two chains didn't become successful until he was like 33 years old. Yeah, some something like that, you know what I mean? So it's like, and I feel like that just goes like when it comes to great art or great music, anything in life, great products, great anything. It doesn't really have a stamp of time. It's like you have to lock in, focus on what you're doing, and just keep trying. Keep I I think it's like keep trying and keep slowly adjusting your your plan, your settings. If something doesn't work, don't keep doing the same thing over and over again because it's not gonna work. You already know look, the formula doesn't work. Doing the same formula over and over and over again is not gonna work.
SPEAKER_03But you see, you see, the thing is that's completely true. But one thing I've realized working with so many different artists is like they'll do something, like for example, they'll they'll plan a release for a song, right? Yeah, and you know, they'll maybe put one promo video before the song drops, and then the song drops, they'll drop like the cover and then a music video, but then like that's it, you know, like nothing else. And then, like, so many times I've I've had conversations with people, and they're like, Oh yeah, you know, my my last song didn't do as well as I thought. And I asked them, like, okay, so what did you do? They're like, Oh, I did this, I did this. I'm like, bro, like you gotta be doing a lot more, yeah. You know, but it's like they're like, Yeah, I know, I know, I gotta do it, but it's like they don't actually do it, you know. Okay, it is like the next release is the exact same thing. It's like you do the bare minimum, you expect for the for the best possible outcome, it doesn't happen, you become unsatisfied with the result and bitter, yeah. Manager engineer that the song doesn't sound the way out, it's bitter, you know, but then it's like you do the same thing over and over all over again. So it's like I don't know, I don't know what it is. Like maybe it's a lack of effort, uh maybe it's a lack of like self-belief. Like, I really don't know what it is, but you're completely right, bro. It's like you can't keep doing the same thing over and over and over if it's not working, like you gotta switch it up, you really gotta find new solutions. Like in today in 2026, bro, like you could be doing so many things to further your career, whether you're an artist, engineer, producer. Like, there are so many things that you could be doing, and people just don't take advantage of all the resources that they have. I yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_02And I I I think when it comes to creativity itself, creativity itself cannot only limit to your music. Yes, exactly. Create you have to have a creative mind with everything that you do. Yes. Oh, okay, I have a record. How am I gonna promote it? What am I gonna do? Even even certain things like man, like when I sometimes when I talk to people and I kind of see how you know what people are doing and all that stuff, artists are doing on the just promotional side. I'm like, you work on the record, you know, you produce it, finish the record, you drop the record, you promote it for two weeks, forget about it onto the next year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And sometimes it's not even two weeks, bro.
SPEAKER_03Sometimes it's literally like four days, five days.
SPEAKER_02It's like it doesn't even make sense. It's like how you're trying to like the thing is that too, is like, especially as an independent artist, you have to understand that 99.9% of the world have not heard your music. Yes, yes. So just because you dropped something last year, it doesn't mean that it's it's gonna be new for somebody else. That's the whole thing with the content, like not even content, I don't want to call it content. With your body of work, is like writing books. If you write a book in 1965, if the book is good and somebody finds about this book in you know 2026 and they're gonna read it, they're gonna be like, oh man, this this is a great book. Yeah, it's the same thing with the music. You know what I mean? Again, a lot of times, like there's a lot of music that kind of chases the trends. So when you chase the trend, the music is gonna expire the same way how the trends expire, expire, right? But if you work on the records that have more meaning to them, like songs that have more than just uh, you know, just just whatever is happening right now. If the song is 10 years, 20 years, and all that stuff, you can have those songs in circulation. You you have to always try to pitch those records to wherever you can pitch it. Yes, you know, even even things like I agree, if you drop a record, go in and like man, we live in 2026. We have so many tools. We have Chat GPT, we have claws, we have Google, we have we have an unlimited amount of fucking tools nowadays, you know what I mean? So it's like even if you have a record and you're like, you know what, how I can promote my record, Google it, give me all the list of all the radio stations in North America, like small radio stations, yeah. Reach out directly to every single one of them. You know what? If one out of 20 is gonna say, hey, we're gonna play your record, it's worth it. It's worth it, it's worth it, it's worth it, but nobody wants to do it now. See, it's like back the the reason I think that kind of comes down to why the era of big artists that you know I I feel like the last era of like this mega superstars that we had, like, you know, the in hip hop, especially like J. Cole's, even like Taylor Swift and like Drake and all that stuff, it's like these guys come from an era where like groundwork was the work.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
unknownJ.
SPEAKER_03Cole was outside waiting for Jay-Z to give him his tape. People don't do this stuff anymore.
SPEAKER_02Everybody's just on Instagram, yo. Check my music out. Yeah. DM, check my music out. This, like, there's no more like the the back end work to get the records out there. And the thing is that it's the easiest thing to do nowadays. I remember back in the day, man, Tori used to come to Square One and sell his set sell his mixtape. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, that was like whatever, a long time ago. But like these guys, that's what they used to do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_02They had the you know, the the CDs and all that stuff. Hey, buy my mixtape, buy my this, this and that and that. Like, that's that's how you create the thing, you know what I mean? But I think even like uh even shows nowadays, I feel like I don't want to be disrespectful, but man, there's a lot of people that can't perform.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah. They just throw on the the song, blast it, uh lip sync to it, or or just like their vocal is mad quiet behind the actual song. It's like, bro, it's not a real performance, you know.
SPEAKER_02I I I feel like different genres might have a little bit different uh quality level of the artist, let's just call it that way. I feel like hip hop, unfortunately, nowadays is at the lowest. Yes, in terms of performances. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because people just put their track on, they just have one microphone, yeah. And they just kind of like, you know, it's like if you do like country music or folk music or something, it's just not gonna slide. Yeah, everything would be. It's like you have to have a band, you have to know how to sing, there's no auto tune, yeah, you have to know how to play the guitar, like you have to be the actual musician to go into certain places. Yes. When it comes to hip-hop, man, there's like no quality control. It's like, I yeah, I got this song, this and that and that, you know what I mean? It's like, yeah. Imagine and again, it's like I know how it circles back to uh to the mental health. We kind of go off topic, but if uh if somebody can't perform without auto tune, even to like you don't have to be 100% as good with auto tune, but be 70%. You know what I mean? Like 70% is doable. Just try to reach the 70% that if something happens, you can still perform without the the tools that like, you know, the crutches to help you with the things, right? And I feel like that that that's also a thing, right? It's like music industry, in my opinion, I've dealt with a lot of people. Music industry is full of very delusional people. I'm I'm I'm not gonna lie, I'm probably some d I'm I got my delusions of my own too, you know. We all do. But the thing is that I'm also realistic about a lot of things. Grounded in it. Yeah, I'm like, I have my delusions, but I'm grounded. I stump on the thing, right? But sometimes when I deal with people, it's like, look, I mean, I used to work with some some guy, somebody, like a couple of guys, it was multiple of them, you know. I mean, but they would send me demo and they like, I sound like Chris Brown. And like I listened to it and I'm like, brother, this sounds like fucking shit. You know, but that's the thing, right? People have a very different opinion or like vision of what they are and the level that they're on. Yes. But they're always gonna compare themselves to the top. Yes. And I feel like that also is gonna hit you hard when something's gonna happen that is gonna make you realize that everything that you thought about yourself is now what the what the reality is. Yes, yes, yes. Or like how you perceive yourself is not what people is not how people perceive you. Yeah, you know what I mean? So people get reality checks eventually.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but it's good. I will say this though, it's good to believe in yourself. No, 100%. It's good to be confident in yourself, but again, it's like you you still need to be realistic and grounded in like the actual facts. Yeah, you know, like you can definitely fake it till you make it mentally, yeah, which is good because some people it's better than not believing yourself, but again, it's just you need a little touch bit of reality in also things that are going on, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, 100%. I mean, look, if if you just start in, you can't compare yourself to Drake.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_02You know, I mean, you it's like sometimes even when I'm pretty sure you had those guys that people come in, they're like, Yeah, I want to sound like Drake, I want to do this and that. It's like, guys, you have to understand this guy spent 20 years of his life perfecting his craft, yeah, perfecting his vocal, perfecting the way how he how his cadence is his writing. Like, there's so much that goes to it. Yes. That you know I mean, like all those little little nuances that that they're doing, this is part of his art. Yes, and it's like you can't just have it out of like you know, just starting like all of a sudden you just have all of those things. Like it all takes time. And I find two, a lot of people are not willing to work. A lot of people are not willing to put the extra, you know, extra hour, two hours a day to do certain things. I mean, even on the engineering side, man, you know, you already know. I mean, you've known me for a minute, I've known you for a minute, and uh, you know, I've been doing it longer, but you know, you're you're steady taking the the same path when it comes to the work that you're doing. It's like you understand how much work it takes to be in the place that you are, and the things that the place that you are is not the place that you want to be in.
SPEAKER_03No, no, not at all.
SPEAKER_02You know what I mean? But you already know how much work it takes. Yes. So it's like when you have somebody that wants to be in a certain place, I'm pretty sure there's people that look at you or look at me like, oh, I would love to be in the same position, this and that and that.
SPEAKER_03Then we look at ourselves like, what the fuck?
SPEAKER_02We look at ourselves like, yeah, what are we doing, you know? Yeah, so but the thing is that a lot of people just don't want to take the risk. They don't want to take the extra, like, I mean, how many overnight sessions do you do? You know what I mean? Like, how many things, how many extra stuff that you get gotta take financially on yourself to get things going? Sometimes, like, look, we do things financially, just not even to maintain. It's like because we have our delusion in our head about how you want to hear stuff stuff, we are willing to take a risk, spend thousands of dollars extra. Yes, just to get things sounding, hope, not even sounding, hoping that things are gonna sound the way how we hear in our heads. Yes, yes, 100%.
SPEAKER_03You know what I mean? I think I think uh so one question that kind of ties it back to the initial discussion was like you know, we both started music because we uh initially were very well we still are, but we because we were very passionate about it, because we loved music, right? But do you think that sometimes we are working in the music industry and we've made it into our career? Do you think the work sometimes takes the passion away? Because it becomes sometimes it feels more like a job as opposed to oh I'm just making music.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, 100%. I I I I think working with really talented people that have a that really make good music kind of brings us back to oh this is why I'm here. Yes, I agree with that. This is why, this is why I'm here. I'm here because I you know working on the records that are quality from the very beginning, like you listen to the vocals, you're like, Yeah, this is sick, like the production, everything is in place. Excuse me. Um everything is in place, you're like, this is what this is why I'm here. I know exactly what you're saying.
SPEAKER_03You know, I know exactly what you're saying.
SPEAKER_02But then you also gotta work with people that might have potential, but there's a lot of work that has to be done. Yes, and many times we almost have to take a role of a of a uh coach, mentor, coach, mentor to kind of guide them through the process and help them become better. Yes, but sometimes I feel like these guys just don't want to listen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like they think that they know better and they don't want to listen to somebody that's been doing this shit for 20 years. Yeah, I feel like I'm like, hey, aye, cool. You want to do it, you want to do it, you know what I mean? But I feel like with with sometimes when it comes to those things, the issues that they focus on are not the issues that are important. They focus more about like, yo, it's gonna be sick if we're gonna add the delay right here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they don't think about the note before is not the note that it's supposed to be.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Or the vocals are not sounding how they're supposed to sound exactly, or like your performance is just lacking.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah. They focus on the wrong things.
SPEAKER_02They want to focus on the things that are additions, but then it's like you don't want to focus on the core, which doesn't make on the foundation, which doesn't make sense. Yeah, I agree. You know what I mean? And like, look, I've been in the sessions before where I was like, you know, I'll tell people I I remember you he was at 669. I was working with this one guy, I forgot who it was, but it was my first session. And you know, some people are cool, some people are not. But you know, he would run a take, and I'm like, yo, I don't think it sounds good. Like, can you like tighten up this and that? He's like, he literally told me this. Nah, this is exactly how I wanted it to be. I know those people, I know it's kind of so I'm like, I bet.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'm not gonna say anything. When you work with man, sometimes when you work with hard-headed people like that, it's just you just gotta let them do their thing. Yeah, you gotta let them do their thing, and when they hear it back afterwards, like you know, um a lot of times people will realize after the fact that oh, maybe I should have tried this, or maybe I should have listened to this. But it's like sometimes, man, there's there's no point fighting someone who is so stubborn about how they want something to sound, yeah, even though objectively speaking, the revision or the improvement that you're suggesting could actually benefit as well.
SPEAKER_02I mean, and the thing is too, right? Is like everybody might be listening to different things, right? Like, especially like nowadays, I feel like there's artists in the hip hop world. When I listen, or I don't I wouldn't say I listen, when I hear their stuff, I question my own sanity. I'm like, is that really what people are listening to? I mean, yeah, it is what people are listening to. You know what I mean? But that's the thing, is it's like, hey, if I'm if I'm in the studio with that guy and he does this type of thing that people love for some reason, how what am I really to tell him, like, yo, it doesn't sound right if there's people that are gonna listen to it? So that's what I'm saying. It's like it's such a weird space to be in, right? Because I think the older we are, or like we come from a different like we come from a different generation where we were listening to very different music, like music as different artists, like different quality of things. And I feel like the newer generation, they listen to music from a very different point of view. We expect different things, but they also have different expectations. Yes. And I feel like I feel like again, I don't want to even be, I don't want to even this or anything, but it feels like the bar is being lowered just to meet certain criteria, and even things like uh like you know, DSPs and Spotify and all that stuff. I feel like the way how these guys operate for them is not about the quality, it's about the quantity. They need you to upload every like whatever three weeks, four weeks. Like for them, it's like they need extra traffic. For them, it's all about like you know, like Spotify streaming services, they operate very different than what radios operate, very, very different uh level of operation, right? So it's almost like everything, everything is becoming release, forget, release, forget, release, forget. You know what I mean? So, and again, I feel like going back, circling back to the mental health. If you're an artist and you care about your art, when you do something, just McDonald's, quick, do it fast food and forget, it's almost like you devalue your own art, and then it hurts you because it feels like nobody cares. Right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I don't feel that. I 100% feel that. Um for for like anyone working in studio studio environments, anyone working in the music industry, do you think the lifestyle that we have is it do you think it's unhealthy? I mean the the long hours of sitting, staring at the computer, like look, I I feel like I've been doing this this, I've been doing it for a minute.
SPEAKER_02I feel pretty healthy. I don't have any any health conditions, major stuff. Like every now and then my neck hurts a little bit, you know what I mean? But it's not something that I'm like, I need like uh next level surgeries and all that stuff. I think regardless, whatever you do, whether you're in a studio or anything you do in life, you have to take care of yourself. You gotta, you know, work out, be active. Like sports should be a part of your life, especially if you sit a lot. You know, I mean, it's it's just part of the things. Have I seen big fucking sorry first one? Have I seen big fat engineers smoking cigarette after cigarette and drinking coffee after coffee? Yes, yeah, you know what I mean? But it's like I've seen the same type of guys working construction, working in the office, where so it's like that's true, yeah. It's like it really comes down to your personal lifestyle, how you're gonna conduct yourself and how you how you're gonna be. Because there's always two sides of the things. Yes, you can be healthy. I I think there's especially when it comes to music. Yeah, we have deadlines and all that stuff, but for me, health is my priority. I need to go to the gym, this, this, this, this. If I if I'm like if I'm like super pressed and I have like a lot of deadlines, I might instead of doing it every day, I'm gonna go every two days.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Just for like just for like a short amount of time when I'm like, you know what, I need to lock in, focus on the work that I'm doing. But eventually I'm gonna go back to my to my routine. Yeah. Um, but you know, I think it's it's with everything. There's a lot of people nowadays that you know, people don't work out, people don't eat well. Um, and look, I'm speaking from my perspective. Like, I remember back in the day when I opened 669, I was eating terrible. I was eating like pizza pizza every day. Oh, when they used to be on the corner, yeah. Like I was because I was working all the time. I was working like 16, 17, 18 hour days. You know, I mean, I didn't have time to eat. I was just like, I was just, I was just in it, like I lost, even though I was eating terrible food, I lost a lot of weight. Yeah, you know, stress, stress, like I'm not getting, I'm not giving my body what I what it needs to be, and all that stuff. And I remember once I I went to see my mom, and then my mom asked me, it's like, are you okay? And I was like, I felt fine. Yeah, I was like, Yeah, I'm fine. She's like, you look like you're about to collapse.
SPEAKER_03And I was like, that's when you get to the case.
SPEAKER_02She told me that, and then I was like, I was like, shit.
SPEAKER_03That's when you gotta start reabouts.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was like, I was like, hold up, maybe uh maybe there's something not right with you, you know what I mean? And then I remember I was walking, I I had to walk somewhere, and now what in mind I I always played soccer, I ran and all that stuff. So for me, like physical, like you know, my stamina is always like right now, I can go for a walk, like eight miles, ten miles, I can do it no problem. But then I walked like literally hundred meters and I was breathing hard. I was like, I was like, yo, that was like my wake-up call. I was like, yo, I need to like change the way how I do everything. Where I prioritize myself over, like, you know, I'm gonna start two hours later so I can do everything prior to to that, so I can like feel like a human being, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's it's it's very important because at the end of the day, look, you only have one health. Once if if it goes to the to the ultimate whatever happens with you, if something happens, it's probably yourself they have to blame.
SPEAKER_03No, I agree. I think I think there's a stigma. There's definitely a stigma that uh people who work in music have unhealthy lifestyles. Yeah, but I think at the end of the day, your health, as long as you prioritize it, you're gonna be fine because you could choose to eat like shit, you could choose to not sleep well, you could choose to XYZ. But it's like if you really prioritize yourself, you wake up um at a good time every day, you eat clean, good whole foods, you go outside for walks. Like, you could ru it doesn't have to be an unhealthy lifestyle, it all just depends on your decisions that you make and the things that you need to prioritize. Like for me, I remember when I first started working, I was so much. I was just working all the time, like whatever, blah blah blah. But then I got a wake-up call. I'm like, damn, I'm I gained a couple pounds. Um I go out for a walk for like 15 minutes, by the end of it, I'm like sweating. It's like, bro, you you just gotta take care of yourself, man, because at the end of the day, it's if you don't have your health, you don't have anything else, right? Yeah, 100%. Now it's like every day I wake up, I go to the gym, I'm trying to take at least like 10k steps every day, get some sunshine, making sure I eat clean, and all of these things actually because when you first start working, it's kind of like okay, but I have to sacrifice so much time in order to do these things. But then you realize, like, okay, but now that I'm working out, now that I'm going on walks, now that I'm eating good, I'm more productive, I'm more efficient, I'm not get as tired. So it's like it all helps in the process of you doing what you need to do.
SPEAKER_02I mean, you sacrifice some time to gain some life, you know what I mean? It's like I mean, I I feel like you know how it is. Now everything is fast, fast food and fast everything, this and that and that. And I feel like the way how the society is, everything is fast, everything needs to be done fast, this, this, this, every like there's this obsession. Everybody have this obsession of just doing things as fast as possible. But I'm like, I don't think as fast as possible is really natural for like our existence. Yeah. I don't think like human beings naturally are kind of lazy. We are kind of like, we like to take our time with things. We're becoming more and more lazy too. You know what I mean? But at the same time, I feel like with the you know, with the the the computers and the AI and everything, it's like humans really becoming digital where everything is being downgraded just to numbers. You know what I mean? Like everything is time, everything is bank account, everything is this, everything's like the whole entire world just runs in the numbers. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I I feel like in the next 10, 20, 30 years, like the analog approach to things is gonna be completely gone. Because everything's gonna be automation, everything's gonna be like what, but the thing is that okay, once we're gonna get to that point, what is gonna be a purpose of a human being then? Yeah. Because look, there's already a lot of people that don't even do anything. You know what I mean? Like they just chill out if whatever situation they are in, they are in. But if everything is gonna be cut even more than that, and like you know, they're already saying like accounting services, like AI is gonna be able to do it, like any type of this, this, and that, and that, like all that stuff, it's just gonna feel like the whole world just runs in a digital time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I agree, you know.
SPEAKER_02But I also think that there's gonna be a movement of people that will kind of remain in the old ways and they're gonna create their own ecosystem and they're gonna operate within their own space, living by their own rules, and that's probably gonna be me.
SPEAKER_03I mean, I feel like you already do that, anyways.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I I do. You just live in your own world. I'm I'm trying to figure out how I can like live without a bank. Live without a bank? Yeah, because I want to pay you cash because once you don't have a big once you have once you don't have a bank, CRA can do anything to you. You're like the thing, the truth is that once you don't have a bank, you are untouchable. It's true. The only thing, the only the only bullying that the government can do to you is financial.
SPEAKER_03I mean, there's more than just financial. Yeah, but like legal things that they could do. There's a lot of things the government can do to you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that that's true. But I'm talking like if you just live your life as a human being, you're not breaking any law and stuff, they can't do anything to you.
SPEAKER_03They won't be coming after you if you're not doing any suspicious activity. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? But I mean, if you all of a sudden start claiming zero income every year for your business or your personality. I mean, I should literally be like, what happened to this guy?
SPEAKER_02I I I think it's like, yeah, I mean, you know, look, pay your taxes, you know. I mean, I'll pay my taxes. Pay your taxes. Pay your taxes. We all pay our taxes. The thing is, I I I feel like when it comes to that, it's just like, how much do you want to do you have to pay though? I mean, bro, you're gonna pay a lot. You know, I mean, but it is what it is, man. We just live in a country. I mean, I think the whole world is kind of messed up like this anyway. And I'm I I'm not even talking only about taxes and stuff. I'm just talking about like everything that everything just feels is all about the numbers. It's not about it's not about the function anymore. You know what I mean? So and I think that that's gonna go back again to your like mental health. You know, I mean, when you have to deal with certain things and you have uh all that pressure on you, it's like look at the end, I I feel like you know what I always say I I would speak from a Canadian perspective. Canada has this obsession about talking about mental health. It's all of those companies, everybody always, you know, the the mental health, yeah, and all that stuff. But the thing is that they don't care though. It's like it's like everything is performative. I love this word because it's so true. Everything is being done just to perform in in front of the people to say, like, oh yeah, we care about this, we care about that, this, this, this, and that and that. But it's like, do you guys really care? You guys don't care. No, they don't really care, man.
SPEAKER_03At the end of the day, it's all for a better brand image, it's all for some kind of profit. Yeah, ultimately, like it always benefits them ultimately at the end of the day.
SPEAKER_02You know what's the biggest scam, even with like loblaws? I I I've kind of heard about it, but like I kind of dig a little bit deeper in that. So, you know how they ask you for donations? So, you know what they do? They take a donation from you and they they donate it to like whatever charity and all that stuff. Tax write-off. But then they use it as a tax write-off, yeah. Oh, so it's like you pay for the thing just so they take the money, give it to them, and then just like write it off. Yeah, scam. Scam, scam, scam, yeah, crazy, you know? Okay, guys, we gotta wrap it up real quick. We gotta wrap it up real quick because the camera is overheating. So thank you. We're gonna go back to this conversation at some point, but yeah, it's been already like an hour almost, though.
SPEAKER_03I think it's been like 40 minutes. Anyway, yeah, let's wrap it up. Yeah, thank you guys for watching. Stay tuned for another episode. Appreciate you guys as always. See you next time. Peace.