Amir Jamm Reveals Mixing Secrets Everyone Needs To Know

In this episode, we sit down with Amir Jamm to talk about his journey, studio setup, plugins, mixing tricks, and the process behind making music sound better.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

What's going on, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Behind the Console. As usual, I'm Derek and this is and today we have a very special guest with us today, man. It's Amir Jam. Yes, sir. Man himself. So, multiplanner producer and engineer. So, thank you for joining us today. Of course, thank you for having me. So it's a beautiful setup you guys have. Thank you. Thank you. So, the first question we usually start with everyone who uh is a guest on our podcast is just give a brief background of yourself, how you got started in music, and how you got to where you are today. Cool.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Um, I moved to Toronto about 10 years ago, and I was introduced to uh engineer and a producer's name is Prologic. Yes. And a friend of mine used to follow him and saw that he had an internship availability. And I applied, and then literally within a week of moving to Toronto, I went and saw him. The second day he was like, okay, come intern. And I used to live at Young and Eglinton, and the studio was actually in South Etobicoke, didn't have a car or anything. An hour and a half to get there, an hour and a half to get back. And I did every day. That's an education right there. And I did 15 hours usually because after one o'clock, the buses stopped running, so I would have to wait till the 5 a.m. bus. And I'm every there, I'm like, I finish around one or two, and I'm already missing the bus, you know. It was just I put in the work for that. Like I put in the work every day, five hours sleep. So I started there, and honestly, I I've just been blessed. A lot of people ask me, like, how do you get in the industry and how do you meet people? Um, obviously, I had the work ethic and the skills, but beyond that, I'm just simply got lucky. I was thrown into with Prologic, and then the the first person I actually ever recorded was uh rapper. He's his name is Preem now, but used to go by Pure Rain back in the day. And uh I went through the trenches with him. Like he really That was your very first session with Preem? Yeah, that was I remember like walking in and then obviously meeting Pro. Then the next day he's like, Okay, come for a nice session. And I'm sitting there, and at the time, Prim was just working out a lot and he was jacked. And I just see him walking through the door, and then Chubbs walks through the door, and I'm like, Oh my god, where am I? You know? But I was really blessed. Like, shout out to Pro. He really changed my life forever. He put he just gave me the opportunity, you know. I took the opportunity and uh ran with it, but without him, I wouldn't be where I am, and then started recording him. I started recording a few other clients, Big Lean, um, JD Era. And then where I started kind of drifting away and creating my own sound was like when I met Smoke Dog. And then I was introduced to Smoke Dog by Chubbs, and then we started working a lot, and then through word of mouth, I started working with Prime Boys, the rest of the Halal gang, um, and really locked in for a few years with them. And just it was till this day, it's only been word of mouth of how I've gotten work and clients. So I've been very grateful. Like, I'm just I can't believe that I get to do this every day and wake up and like work on music, especially like what we do. It's like honestly, I'm not trying to be too like weird about it, but like it's insane that we get to do this. Like, I can't believe it. Especially in Toronto, and also like God bless all the people that do regular jobs. Like, and I think I would do it great at a regular job. I just don't wanna. So it's like any second I catch myself being annoyed with a client or a mix or something, I'm not unhappy. I just gotta sit there and like remind myself, like, yo, we're beyond blessed to be able to do music. So that's kind of a rundown of my career, and then a rundown of the beginning of my career, but then after that, it was just word of mouth, and uh I got to travel the world, I got to work with some of the biggest artists in the world, work on really cool music, and I'm still doing it. So that's kind of like a little rundown on on my career and stuff like that. But that's that was the start.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

That's crazy. Hold on, so so you moved to the city 10 years ago?

SPEAKER_01 3:58

10 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

So where'd you go? Where'd you live before?

SPEAKER_01 4:00

I lived in Hamilton, yeah, and then before that, I lived in Jordan. So I came to Canada in grade nine. So I'm an immigrant, so came here in grade nine, didn't really speak much English. Um, and the reason why I got into music, nobody in my family has any music sense, but my brother tried to learn guitar and he worked at Canadian Tire Night Shift. So at night when he'd leave, I would sneak in his room and start playing guitar. And then I picked up like FL Studio because literally I couldn't talk to anybody and I had no friends. So I started making beats like as like an escape from reality type thing. And that's how I got into music, and then I started an internship at Noble Street in 2015. I interned there for like three months, then I interned at another studio for another six months in Hamilton, and then I entered for pro for th for three months after that. So I put in a lot of like paying my dues.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

So you went through the whole system.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

I went through the whole system, yeah, yeah. I really did it. I really did it. I really paid, I like you know, when they say pay your dues, I definitely paid my dues when it came to like the music industry. But yeah, that's that's kind of like the history behind it. But it's cool, like, I feel like, yeah, it's cool to be the guy in the family that does music because nobody has it, you know?

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Yeah, that's fair. So, what would you say, like throughout your entire journey um as a producer, as an engineer, like what helped you grow the most? Would you say it would just be like taking on every opportunity, working with different clients? What would you say is the thing that helped you grow?

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Yo, growth was an interesting part of it. I think for me, how do I explain this? It was a lot of internal battles, like it was a lot of emotional and mental battles that forced me to grow. Obviously, working with different clients, new genres, and learning how to watching YouTube videos and learning how to mix obviously helped me grow. But I think the main thing was just figuring out who I am as a person, right? And just I think that would have been the case if I did any career, but really focusing on like yeah, who I am, trying to figure out what I like, what I need, and uh taking care of myself. That that's been where I found the most growth is when I really take care of myself. Yes, yes, whether it's mentally, physically, spiritually, like focusing on that and then coming with that to the studio always allowed for the best work and real growth. And that's when a random client that I would have never worked with would hit me up or like get called to do like a big session with like a boogie at noble. Like it's always when I'm really working, focusing on myself and like my health, that's when the opportunities actually come. So that's one thing that like you know, if I could tell myself like from 10 years ago what to focus on, I don't have any regrets in my life, but if I had could tell young me one thing, just like focus on your health a little bit more, you know, because I really, really let music be everything. For sure. I was doing I have a calendar from like 2016 to 2018, and those two years, six days a week, 14-hour days, yes, for the full two years, did not skip a B. Yeah, like hundreds and hundreds of hours, you know, just in the studio. And then I ended up gaining like I was like over 300 pounds, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got yeah, I was over 300. I was like, I'll show you a picture after you're gonna die. And then, you know, I've just been up and down with my health, still trying to figure it out. And that's like right now, if we're talking about where I'm at, like and what's helping me grow, is just again focusing it on my health all over again. I think that's that was the main thing. And that's if I could get give advice to anybody, is just like, yes, focus on the music, focus on becoming better artists, but focus on becoming a better person for yourself and a better human to others. And I think that that will allow you to actually grow in this industry and go further.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Yes, I think I think that's like one of the things because me and Dah definitely relate to what you just said, because it's like when you first start working, trying to build your name up, it's like all you can really think about is work, work, work, work, work. And it's so hard to find that balance for you to take time for yourself, but also for like the relationships you have with your friends or your family, or like even just taking care of yourself every day. So, like for you, how have you been able to find that balance? Is it just prioritizing yourself more and giving yourself more time and just sacrificing less time in the studio, or what is it? Yeah, it's a bit of both.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

It's a bit of both. I think for me, just in general in life, I'm like learning how to prioritize myself. Like I've always this is a mixing podcast, but we're getting so good and emotional.

unknown 8:30

That's that's great.

SPEAKER_03 8:31

It's good.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Um like for the first time ever, like I'm being selfish because I realize that being selfish will ultimately allow the others to see the best version of me, and I could be for there for others the most. So that's kind of where I'm at right now on a my personal journey, is just like for the first time ever, like I'm done like being this kind of a people pleaser where I just cater to whoever at any time, you know, just a little bit more firm with my yes and no's. I'm a little bit more uh disciplined in the sense of like just even disciplined with myself, like going to bed at a good time, like having a normal life. So that was a big part of it because before that I would be like waking up at 2 p.m. every day, getting getting to the studio by seven o'clock, and I'm just there till 7 a.m. Yeah, and the cycle repeats, and I don't see sun, I don't eat healthy. Like, so how did I get to like the balance is just really prioritizing myself? But like you said early on, you you sometimes you can't, and there's times where I don't, you know, even in my my current journey, if like okay, yo, we have 15 songs to mix, we the label wants it in two weeks. Like, I'm not working out with like I might not work out for those two weeks a lot, you know? I might just need to lock in and just uh so I'm always willing to do the hard work and um sacrifice things, but when I have that extra little bit of root leeway, whether it's financially, whether it's time-wise, I'm just utilizing it 100% because I know how precious it is, you know? Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Definitely, definitely. So you've worked with um many artists as you've mentioned. So, in your opinion, what would you say is like your most challenging project today and the one you learn most from? Challenging, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

I don't have challenging projects because usually when I do projects with an artist, it's like you know, somebody we get along with and we love and I love them, and and usually it's a great time, but I've had challenging clients, you know. There's there's there's horror stories of there's definitely horror stories of like certain clients. Um yeah, it was just insane. One of the worst, worst, worst, worst sessions of my life was uh I was with two big artists who are very well known, and one of them is actually a writer, and he used to, he's a huge writer, writes a lot of Korean pop music, and he's from LA. And he comes to my studio and they're just doing a lot of like the nose of white stuff. They're just doing a lot of white stuff, right? And it all it the white stuff started hitting the washroom, like they would leave and they come back, and I'm like, okay, I get like you know, I'm not an idiot, I know what's going on. And then as the night progressed, it started happening in the studio, and then at around seven in the morning, I am like burnt out, tired, I'm ready to go home. And uh the writer, this is so pisses me off to this day, even thinking about it. The man grabs my hand, puts a line on my hand, no, and grabs my hand and goes off my hand. Off my hand. Off your head. Yes. That's crazy. I got up and I was ready to fight. Yeah, that's actually insane. I've never felt like like I've never been touched before inappropriately or whatever, but for the first time, I felt violated. Yeah, for the like I've never been violated like that before. So that was something that has always stuck with me. Ended the session, canceled the rest of the sessions, and you know, they're apologizing to me, please. No, we're done. This and this is not this that's you can't do this house. That's crazy work, bro. That's actually insane. Yeah, I have a tons of drug stories in the studio, like just people coming and turning up. You know how the studio gets sometimes. Um, but as far as projects, uh, luckily I've been blessed to work with like great artists, and we get along, and even sometimes stuff takes longer, whatever. It's never really like a struggle or challenge, you know? Um, and it's like most of the time when the challenge is, it's like I've worked with certain artists where they're in their life, they're going through a lot.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

And um, certain artists I work with, like they would be on house arrest, and like they can't come to the studio and then me going to their house twice, three times a week, recording, and I could tell they're going through it, and just being there for them and just being a good friend, like you know, really took me a long way. And I I love doing it. There's nothing wrong with doing it, but I guess that would be like a little bit more of the challenge thing, challenging thing that I've experienced, but mostly just one-off sessions. Oh, another horrible session, horrible session was Jake Paul. Jake Paul and Jake Paul, yeah, I did back in like 2020 or maybe 2021 or something. Wasn't that Noble? No, no, it was on my my old studio, Alina Studios. There's a big producer from Toronto that set me up with him. He's like, he's in town. Um, do you want to record him? And he just came in here on just his bullshit. He was just a horrible like person, you know, and broke my bong, fucked a girl in the back room on camera. No way, was the worst like actual artist ever to punch in and left crazy. It was just like, bro, I had three days booked with him, and the first day I realized what was going on. The second day, I was just like praying they didn't show up, and then they showed up six hours later. So we didn't six hours, yeah. I got paid for the whole day, so I didn't care, you know. But and then the third day I just canceled it, I couldn't do it. Like, yo, that's one thing with me. I don't if something doesn't sit right with me, no matter how big the opportunity is, I've never taken it, you know. You have to respect yourself. I respect myself. That's one thing about like the industry. I've always had respect for myself, you know? That's good, that's and I've always carried myself in that sense. So that's something that I would also recommend for anybody young. Like, don't walk all over yourself to appease someone that doesn't respect you for who you are, type thing.

SPEAKER_02 14:19

It's a valuable lesson. We gotta cut, we gotta cut this and clip this, you know. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Facts, facts. So, uh, what's your current uh setup at your studio right now? Are you uh hybrid analog fully in the box? Uh fully in the box.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Um yeah, I just I've been fully in the box ever since I sold uh my first studio shutdown. I had uh like a master bus chain that I would run through when I was mixing. Um, but I've been fully on the box because I've been traveling a lot. But at the studio, I've gone through a lot of speakers, ATCs, ampheons, PMCs. Um but I just love my NS10s. I have a pair of NS10s, and then for my sub the OG NS10s or NS10s M studio, the ones that are you can put sideways in there, like it just says NS10 or uh studio on them. Um and then for my sub I have uh a super rare Tanoy sub and it has two 15-inch metal plates on each side and it's airtight. So with that set up, like I just have a beautiful ON in my studio, and the NS10s have just been like the clearest I've ever been able to see music. Like and on my mixing journey, I've been able to like visualize the song in front of me, and and with the NS10s, I can visualize the most. And when I'm making moves, I don't it feels like I'm not guessing. It's like, oh, you you're boosting here, or it's really feels like I'm boosting here. And then I had like other speakers that I switched from, and then it feels like I was just blind. So I've just been loving, and this is the best setup I've ever had as far as like acoustics and stuff like that, just the NS10 and the sub. But I think I recommend everybody to try that at some point just to give it a shot, even though it sucks for a while. But if you dug it out, it you there's there's a there's the light at the end of the tunnel.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Okay, so are you referencing as well with like headphones or airpods or anything like that, or just yeah, it's just so I just invested in um the Odyssey MM500s.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Nice. Have you guys heard of those? Yeah, the many yeah, the Manny uh Mariquin ones, yeah. And as I was reading about it, he pretty much copied the NS10s and a sub, but in headphones. Oh, yeah. So it's like it's like the perfect when I take off my headphones and listen on this and put it back, translate like perfectly, perfectly even if I don't have like um what is it called? Sound ID, the sound reference where you can emulate like IK multimedia thing. The it's not IK multimedia, it's a sonar sonar, sonar works, sonar works, yeah, yeah. So headphones, you can you can emulate two things, it's pretty insane. Sometimes I use that, sometimes I don't. And then literally last week I drove to Fort Erie and I picked up the Rupert Neve headphone amp. Oh, nice. So I'm running that as my backup, and for the first time ever, I'm really hearing the stereo field properly as far as like where things are placed. It's like I can pick things up and move them around because by adding the the headphone preamp to the no, no, just in those headphones plus the preamp, just the 3D-ness, the the spatial field. Yeah, um like I'm really loving it. I've been able to, especially with reverb and delays. I've always struggled and I've always knew that was one of my weaknesses with mixing, is like kind of figuring out the sweet spot with reverbs and uh just anything in the stereo field, just I was always focused on the center and like mono stuff, and uh everything was either just really wide or really mono. There wasn't this the in-between that didn't exist, yeah. But now I have just opened the playground so I can able to see what I can put here and pick it up. Oh no, I like it here, and the width of things and stuff like that. So that that's been a huge upgrade for my monitoring. And before that, I actually used um these Audio Technica open back headphones. Don't quote me on this 70s, RTX 70X or something. Yeah, I don't know which ones you're talking about. Those are like a little mesh on the side. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Those ones. I've so I've been using those for like a few years, and uh I like them, but the Odyssey was just definitely like a next level of.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

I've tried manis, like I've had them for uh uh Brandon. Shout out to Brandon, he lent me them for like a week or two, so I was like able to like really retap in them with them, and I was like, Yeah, these ones sound crazy. Yeah, you like them? Yeah, I want to buy them, but I'm like, man, I don't want to drop 2500 airples right now, you know?

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Yeah, there's there's somebody selling for like 1600 on Facebook Marketplace the other day. I know who it was, that was my boy Eric.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

Oh yeah, yeah, maybe you should have grabbed it off then. Yeah, honestly, I messaged him. Oh because I saw it on the I saw them on the marketplace. I messaged him. I was like, yo, you're still selling them, but he didn't reply to me.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Oh, and then that's I think they're gone. They're not right now. And then my boy, I think, bought something from him. Is that guy like a YouTube guy? Like he does reviews and stuff. Yeah, I didn't know. I did the I did the episode with him too. Oh, cool, cool, cool, cool. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was selling his BMCs. He's selling his BMCs, yeah. I want those, the big boys, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 14 racks.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

Yeah, honestly, man, it's crazy right now because like I've been trying to sell my 45s to get the 50s, okay? Like the ATCs, because there was a great deal at Lung McQuaid. Nothing is moving, bro. Like anything, like all the high-end speakers and all that stuff. It's like things are just not moving, you know. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

It's I think it's a rough time for everybody right now in that sense, you know? Um, but you want to upgrade those?

SPEAKER_02 19:29

I wanted to, but uh my one of my guys, like my guy, my reference Lang McQuaid, he messaged me that somebody from Vancouver wanted to scoop them the 50s. So I was like, I guess I'm I'm gonna have to wait until the occasion happens again, you know. Because they were like four grand down. Oh, crazy. And they were brand new too. Oh, that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

I thought the ones you sent was a different pair of 50s, though. Remember, you sent me one?

SPEAKER_02 19:51

Yeah, I thought they were like the audio file. The audio file. But I went along the quay, we had a conversation, they were like actual studio ones. Well, they oh, there's there's a difference. There's like at home. And I have a studio division and they have like a high-end, like the audiophile version. Okay, okay, okay, cool. So uh the only the difference is that the audiophile versions they have uh you gotta buy an amp with it, and the studio versions are active, right? So they have an amplifier in the in the speaker.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

It's really interesting once you start having like passive speakers and playing with the amps because I had the ampheons, just the the smaller ones, and they came with the ampheon amp, and then I was trying the my Bryce Tin with the NS10s and the Amphian amp. And the amphion amp was just so much more accurate and detailed, and like that the Bryce Ton was a little bit thicker, a little bit louder, a little bit punchier, but there is some sort of like finesse and swag to the amphion amp. But I had to sell because I sold the ampions, I'm like, I'm not, they've been just collecting dust. So I had to sell them with the amp. But if I could get that amp for my Addis 10s, ooh, Chef's Kiss, so good.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Interesting, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I never I never really had experience with uh passive speakers in your studio, uh, but I believe you 100%, you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

So um you said right now you're fully in the box, right? 100% has your mixing process changed at all? Bro, I'm forever evolving.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

It's well forever evolving, and I'm always like I'm such a student of the game. Like, I'm still watching like five, six tutorial videos a week, nice, all the Instagram videos about mixing, reading books, and now with the like AI and just being able to really ask questions and dig deep. I've uh yeah, I've always evolving. And right now, the stage in my life I'm at, I'm just trying to understand the algorithm of plugins and pro tools. And what I mean by that is like, what are these plugins actually doing when they're on? You know, for example, I was doing testing, so basically, I love to soft clip my drums just to give that FL Studio. Sound and by the way, if you want to get the FL Studio clipping sound, standard clip, soft clip pro 21%, and then uh two clippers at the same time. No, no, no, it's the algorithm, right? The algorithm is called soft clip pro, gotcha, and then you put it at 21%, and then the sample rate, the oversampling, you put it on one, on one, on one.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Oh, so the saturation on 20%, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:24

The saturation on 20%, the sample rate on one, and uh soft clip pro. It's gonna add some volume, so turn down the output so you're matching the gain, but that gives you that like when the kick snare hi-hats hit that like FL Studio kind of lo-fi sound, the oversampling X1 is really important to make it like kind of dirty and gritty. So that's kind of been my go-to for like FL Studio drums, but in general, so let's say I want my kick snare hi-hat mono. So I'll go to the actual channels and I'll mono them, like I'll split into mono and just have the mono signal, yeah. But then I'll put assign them to my drum bus. My drum bus is stereo, right? And I'll put the soft clipper on it, and then I'll go to my master bus and hit sides. Why am I hearing farting in the sides? So now there's new information being created in the sides. So my Kickstare hi-hat are not mono anymore, and I realize there's so many plug in plugins that spread things and change the left and right signal, and that was a big wake-up call for me because now I'm second guessing every plugin I'm using and I'm checking exactly what does. And this might be controversial, but even having the plugin bypass changes the sound. I agree.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

It does. I agree. It does. 100%. 100%. Sometimes I just like either remove it or like make it enact it. Yeah, it removes it or make it because it does it does, and I didn't realize that it can change the phase, it can change the delay compensation.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

That's what I'm saying, especially when like you get drums from FL Studio, yeah, those shit start slapping. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're okay. So now we let's go back to the kick snare hi hat. Uh I'm gonna EQ the kick. Yeah, I'm gonna EQ the snare and compress it, and the hi hat, I'm gonna use a transit designer and a little bit of tape saturation to tame it. Yeah, now those drums are not hitting on the same pocket. Yeah, the pocket has changed now. Right. So what I have to do now, which is this is a new discovery, I have to put the same amount of plugins on all of them. So let's say I have an EQ on my kick. I'm gonna copy that EQ, put it on my snare, bypass it, put it on my hi-hat, bypass it. And on my snare, I have a compressor, I'll leave that on, then I'll put it on my kick, bypass it on my kick, and then put it on my hi-hat and bypass it. So the delay compensation has no way but to be perfect because they all have the same plugins, plus it the same amount of processing, even though it's off, it's but sorry, it's bypassed. Yeah, yeah. I'm still like if I have like 10 bands in Pro Q2, which I never do, but I'm just saying that's what the plugin I'll copy because that will be a different delay compensation. Yeah, so you're just keeping that, and I've did a lot of tests, and the difference is insane. So that that's kind of like me just understanding the basics. I'm just going back to first principles. Yeah, yeah. I've been such a information/slash plug-in or um junkie, like, what's the best trick? What's the best uh oh what's like how do you get the Travis Scott vocal effect? And like, but and I used to just spam plugins just because I heard someone say it. And then mixing becomes this thing where it's like a math formula that you just know one plus one equals two, but in mixing, one plus one doesn't always equal two, just always depends on what's going on. So uh in my like engineering sonic journey, I think I'm just going back to the basics, and it's so cliche. Just something is too sharp, maybe just turn it down, you know. If um like something is too forward, like I don't know, just compress the transient so it just sits back, like you know, just thinking about depth in a different way, and just literally learning the basics again, and like I said, the algorithm of Pro Tools to understand what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

In regarding to what you said, do you think that a lot of times, I wouldn't say us because we have experience, like we've been we've been in this game for a minute, but do you feel like a lot of new guys kind of overlook the basics and they like because there's hundreds, thousands of plugins out there, right? Right, right. So they're trying to fix a problem with another plugin where fixing the problem might be just turning the fader up, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Literally, literally, and that's not new guys, that's me. That's me to this day, and I'm trying to undo and not learn that, you know? Because it's so exciting to like get a new plugin. Like, bro, uh yesterday I was with a client, they're laughing at me, like, yo, in the past week you've bought like four plugins while we're we're mixing. Like, I was like, Oh, I want to try this, this and then $400, and then like a couple days later, I want to get this one, and like they're like, You're a real nerd. I'm addicted for sure, for sure. For sure, for sure. Real addiction. I just got soothed three. Have you guys done that yet? Yeah, I get fire.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

So good, right? Upgrade from Sooth 2, man.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Am I not tripping? It is much better, it's a lot more transparent, and like I just put it on and I'm not changing much. I'm just backing it off. Or and I'm I really like how uh what it does to the low mid-range too. Like it really clears up things.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

Uh do you um when you use sooth, either two or three, yes, do you keep your link at 100 or zero? Or like somewhere in between? I never explored that too much to be honest. Link? Tell me about it. Okay, so Ling, what it does, it makes both channels identical. So technically it keeps things tighter, but I always find when I have them 100%, I don't necessarily like the sound because I like kind of when my two channels, like, you know, I'll do a makes it wider, kind of almost. Yeah, it makes it like both channels kind of live in in the individual world. Right, right, right, right. So um, yeah, I usually keep it zero or like maybe twenty percent. And I I don't I never keep sooth 100% when it comes to the the actual mix, right? I always like I'm like between 30 to 60 percent. Nice, yeah, because you can you can get a away with it, because it sounds good, yeah, yeah. Even on 100%, like I'm not gonna lie, I used to use it 100%, but then I was like, uh, I would say like sooth two, which is a different algorithm. Right. It was clean, but then I was like, I realized I'm like, oh, it's taking a little bit too much. It almost makes it sound too, I don't want to say plastic because it's not the sound, but you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

It's just too gentle, too, like every everything is too smooth. It's like a sheen over everything. Yeah, yeah. But uh, I've never explored the linked and stuff, but really just thinking about what plugins do to the stereo field is just l, it's a huge, huge factor. 100%. Like, and visualizing mixes has been, like I said, just being able to visualize. I know we're hearing it, but kind of paint a mental image of what it is, and that has been really helping me understand of like some things like I want to be able to grab, like you know, feel like I feel like a lot of my older mixes, there wasn't like really anything to touch or grab. Everything was just there, you know. There was no depth this way, and I'm not talking about reverber delay, I'm talking about the EQ compression and just shaping the overall envelope of the record. That's been a big upgrade for me, just like understanding what lives in the center, and then how do I build this beautiful space? What's the room they're in right now? Exactly, and like just being careful with staying out of the way, because the how you know how you said you are turning the mix knob. I wish every plugin had a mix knob. Because I want to leave a little bit of just the source agua there, like with that by the end of the chain, I still want some of the realness, the rawness. And I know that's kind of like the Michael Brouwer technique where he has the raw, then he has the different buses of the different compression styles, EQs, reverb to like fill around the original. Yeah, I'm not really doing it in that sense, but in the sense where like as I'm mixing, I really just want to protect the initial sound, like the source sound, you know? Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Definitely. Do you have like any plugins that have been consistent in your workflow even from the beginning of your career? Some of your favorite plugins? Anything yes?

SPEAKER_01 30:04

There's definitely favorite plugins, there's new favorite ones, but like the classic that comes to mind, I don't know why, is this that waves doubler? Oh, that's always been an OG, like it's just the best. Um, another cool plugin I love is it's not an OG one, but I've been using it a lot. Have you guys used High Fowl? I used it, I use Hi-File. Yes, that's it.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

Honestly, HiFowl is um is not soothe, but like I guess it was supposed to kind of be like Sooth type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

So I think it's like it has its own algorithm of how it tames the top end. I don't want to speak on it like I know exactly what it does, but for top end transient control, yeah, for the final touch to really just anything that's just slightly poking out, I'm doing like 0.5 on the master near the end. Is that on the master bus or yes, it's on the master bus before the first clipper. Gotcha. Like just like third last plugin or something like that, you know? Um, and other plugins that I love. I've been loving uh Ruby 3. Have you guys used that yet? I've tried, and that's the acoustica, right? The acoustica one is I used to use Ruby 2 a lot. That's a great EQ plugin. Obviously, the classic Pro Q, yes, um, Rvox, R compressor. Yes. Waves is just legendary. It is till this day. Like their algorithm is just incredible. So a lot of wave stuff, but um, I'm just trying to think also on the master. What I always oh, shout out to uh mixed by Jimmy. He put me on plugin called the oven. Oh, I used to be. Oh, yeah, I'd like clients, right? Yeah, yeah. The oven is incredible. Fuck with oven. Oven is really nice for uh it's been on my mixed bus for a while now. And also I want to make a public service announcement. Let's do it. God particle, turn that shit off.

SPEAKER_03 31:49

Oh yeah, thank you. Turn that shit off.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

Thank you. Thank you. 100% turn it to zero percent. I'm just removed from the bus, from the master bus. I got hit with the disease. It was on my master for the past, like I haven't done it for the past three months, but for the two years before that, yeah, it was on everything. Oh, really? And now so you got you was used to it. I got I just got to use to it because you just click it and then it does this shelf from like 400 and all the way to the bottom, and it just boosts it by 2 dB. So instantly everything just starts hitting hard. Everything is forwarder, more forward, but then the song just gets annoying to listen to. It's just harder to listen to. Yeah, and I regret every mix that I've put it on. It's the music is out, you know, and we're all grow.

SPEAKER_02 32:37

We all make mistakes. But I'm not gonna lie, the first time I tried God Particle, I didn't I didn't like it. Like, okay, I've put it on and I was like, because you know, I already have like a whole bunch of stuff going on in my master bus. I was just trying to add it on top of what I already had. Right, right, right. And like I listened to it and I'm like, it's just not doing it for me. It's like it pushes everything. Like, I I understand the loudness and stuff. Right, right. Everything just sounded like a brick to me. It's like the dynamics were kind of in a weird place.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

The dynamics get weird, the color gets weird. But number one thing that I hate about it is what it does to the stereo image. We can test this. You pen a heart uh uh hi-hat, I don't know, 45 to the left. Yeah, just solo your sides and turn plug-in particle, got Lagot particle on. Yeah, a part of it is gonna be in the right. Really? 100%. Now the hi-hat lives in the right. It does, it copies whatever is on the left, flips it, puts it a little bit out of like phase and stuff. Not phase or timing something, and then it's there existing. And I'm like, why? And I started doing all these tests. There's a plugin called EQ Analyzer 2, and it just sends us a signal before, and then you put the plugin in between, and then you put the the another EQ analyzer after, and it just shows phase and uh EQ. And I'm like, I just I've been testing everything, every plugin I use. What is it actually doing? Because a lot of the time, like I said, from tutorials, from videos, you just go into this auto mixing brain where you're not doing what the song's calling for, but you're doing what you're used to. You're used to. It's just a habitual, you know. And the more I step out of the habitual and be able to be present with the song and really listen to what's coming out of my speakers, um, that's been a huge upgrade to like my mixes in general. But I will say one thing about it that's positive. Um, I do use it early on for game staging. The meters on it are great for me to realize what I'm hitting my master bus at before I'm hitting any plug-in. I just put it at the first plug-in and I make sure my levels that going into um my master bus. And there's other ways you can do it, you can use different meters, but that's actually the reason how I use God particles. So I do use it, everything is off and it gets turned off, but it's a great just ballpark of like gain staging, and that's another basic thing that we were talking about, where like if you learn gain staging, because plugins they're modeled after a real gear, right? So the level you enter it matters, you know. And even like just with suit between the difference between suit two and suit three, they're saying your input level doesn't matter, but with suit two, your input level mattered. But the new algorithm auto-adjusts for that, so maybe that's why it also sounds better. But in general, just watching how hot you're heading, hitting things, or if you're too low, and I think most of my life I've just been hitting things too low. So when I'm trying to get something loud and sounding like professional and mastered, and I'm like, I'm like limiting so hard and everything's sounding fardy. Why can't I get loudness? And I realized I was just overcompensating with levels within my master rather than giving it a healthy signal to work with. And that's again something in the basics that we need to like just focus it on.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

I think uh everything that you said, uh, I just want to like I don't want I don't know addressing it, but I'm working on the mix right now. And it's like a combination of life stuff and uh and the program stuff. And I'm pretty sure the the guitars, I don't know how these guys recorded them, but no matter how loud I push them, they sound low. And this like it's bothering me because I have to push the whole entire mix to make the guitars kind of loud. Right. But then I'm like, was it like recording with focus right or something? Like focus right, you know, and I'm not even trying to do, but like at the very core, like the very beginning, like when you record something and it's just not recorded right, you can kind of mess up the whole entire process because it messes up the whole entire dynamics of the of how you mix player pro stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

So how do you think you'll you're tackling that right now? How are you? I'm just pushing it, man.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

Yeah, at this point, it's like I I know what I hear in my head, and you know, sometimes I feel like with mixes too, is like, you know, we've mixed plenty of records, so each mix might be a little bit different. Uh it's gonna have different dynamics and stuff, obviously. But when I'm looking at the mix right now, I'm sitting at like six minus six point eight uh lufts around that. So it's like you're pushing it. I'm pushing it, right? Yeah, yeah. But I'm like, I'm pushing it, and it still doesn't hit the way how it's supposed to hit. So I'm like, am I killing the dynamics?

SPEAKER_01 37:11

Maybe bring dynamics back. I'm done with loudness. But I I'm still pushing it too, like negative seven, negative eight. But I wish I didn't have to.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

Yeah, that but that's the thing, is like when you listen to records and stuff, you're almost like you're a force to do it that way.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

You have to, yeah. You know what I mean? Because like question, yeah, and you guys let me know your fig. 99.9% have volume normalization on. Yes, all the streaming of it, everything off always. But for us, we have it off. But I'm saying 99% of the population has it off. 100%. So does it matter that we get it that loud?

SPEAKER_00 37:41

And that's an honest question I haven't found the answer. I I think it still matters because if if we don't try to push for higher values of loss, like the minus seven, minus eights, like even though normalization is on, the perceived loudness of the record will still be lower because everything is still further back, if that makes sense. Because if you're making it louder, but then Spotify is turning it down, the perceived loudness of the record, like in general, is still louder.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

I guess the opposite of that, the other uh side of it is you could be pushing your mix too far, and then a more dynamic mix is just gonna sound bigger, and yours is just gonna have more squad because we're at the same level. But I get exactly what you're saying, the energy of the record, the way the drums hit, like you can only achieve that at certain lefts, but sometimes the like the spaces spaceness of it and the actual dynamics where stuff is breathing almost makes the record sound bigger and more huge. So that's something I've been struggling with. And I kind of the way I answered this question in my head, and I'm not sure saying that's the final answer, is like, what is that, what does this genre call for? You know, if it's a dance record, yes, we're gonna go negative six, you know. But if it's like an RB record, I'm okay at negative nine, you know, like I'm okay on negative ten. If it just sounds great, it sounds great. And uh I struggled, I really I just fucked up so much mixes just to get them loud. Yeah, but some is it because you wanted them loud, or is it because the artist was the artist wanted them loud?

SPEAKER_02 39:06

And then I was just over clipping, over compressing, just like because then you almost like you're at the end of the mix and you're like, I'm happy with it, then artist tells you they want it louder. So it's like you have to put more and more stuff to get in there, but then it's like you're just overdoing things, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:21

Right, and then like the low end disappears 100%. Like, there's no real move for there's there's no room for the speakers, the kick to punch through the speakers because everything is just there, yes, it's just uh hitting a wall, so like when the kick hits, the speaker actually doesn't move, it's just out, like you know, there's no push or whatever in the in it. So I'm I'm I'm really like uh you know how we said screw god particle. It's like yo, yeah, bring back real dynamics and just bring back real sounds, like you know, we live in a digital age, and and obviously there's like the young boys, the people that are doing the just whatever hyper punch or whatever, you know, it is the same thing, and like just party, you know what I mean? And like, you know, sometimes artists want that from me, and I have a hard time getting there because it doesn't it doesn't like my ears, my doesn't connect with me, and like I don't want to be this unk or whatever, like uh like you know, but I just don't connect. And I ultimately, if I want to work on music that's just like more beautiful in general, whether the instrumentation is more beautiful, um, the words are more beautiful, like I'm just in a different headspace, and uh, you know, whatever opportunities I get, obviously I'm gonna take, but I would love to work on more beautiful sounding, beautifully recorded songs.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

100%. But I think it's also because when we got, like, I think all of us, you know, most of the engineers, when we get to what we do, is because we love music itself. Right. We love the sound, and you know, we probably heard our parents' records, like, you know, I mean, whatever they were listening to, Michael Jackson, so that. So it's like we have that idea of how the records should sound like. And as we're getting older, we work with people and all that, we're like, this is not quite what we are used to hearing. Like what we are chasing, you know. But it works for them, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

And like, yo, there's certain records, like when you start pushing that soft clipper or something on your master, and you get starting the fartest, you're like, oh shit, that's tough. You know, it works more certain records. Yeah, it does work, like you know, that the distortion, like over crushed sound, like really works. And I noticed it a lot in um not on the whole instrumental, but on vocals, like in Punjabi music. Yeah, I worked on a lot of Punjabi music, they love their vocals so compressed and loud, loud and compressed, like like 1176 pinning type like vibe, you know, just because they want to hear like the back of their throat because they're hitting like these like crazy and like for really you feel that. And I didn't understand in the beginning. And like I worked with an incredible producer, his name is G Minor, did a lot of music together, and I was able to find the balance between me making it a little bit more beautiful, dynamic, and like kind of listening to him. But when I listen to like the biggest Punjabi artists in the world, they're not doing that, they're doing the so compressed, pushed sound, you know?

SPEAKER_00 42:02

Yeah, yeah. So, bridging off of what you mentioned earlier about us being in a more digital age, like what are your thoughts on AI music right now? Or even do you think it it could ever replace mixers or mastering engineers in the future?

SPEAKER_01 42:15

Yeah, I'm thinking about that all the time. I'm sorry, I've tried I'm starting to plan, like, yo, what do we do? Like, um I don't have the answer for that, but I'm very optimistic. Okay. And the reason I'm optimistic is I exist in this world, AI exists in this world, we're of the same thing, you know? And AI to me is just humans trying to recreate themselves, is they're just soaking everything and regurgitating it, like back out, you know? So, yes, there will be services that are gonna be able to make your mixes sound great. I think mastering engineers could be replaced up to a certain level. I think the thing I'm really optimistic about is like tools for us, the professionals, that are just gonna speed up our process. And I think what might happen is there's gonna be a lot less mixing engineers, but the good ones are gonna stay, and they're gonna be able to utilize the tools to speed up their work process. And uh again, mute mixing is uh ultimately it's there's a lot of scientific and technical uh things you should know, but it's still a an art in its own. Emotion-based, yeah. An emotion art, yeah. You have to feel emotion, and that's the thing with AI. Like the I'm uh I'm like the day it can realize emotions and figure out how to invoke emotions, and um, that's the day where it might get a little bit dark and twisted. But as of right now, I'm very optimistic. I want to be optimistic. I use it all the time, whether it's like life stuff, whether it's setting up my sessions and labeling everything, or like there's a thing called fast bounce where it just stems out everything for me. Because like you have all your Oprah gears, and like you gotta record every one manually, you know. Them so fast balance just does that for me. I can just set it up like five sessions, tell them what channels I want, leave it running, go home, come back tomorrow, and everything is balanced labeled for you all one click. It's incredible. So tools like that I love. Um, Suno is insane, is insane. So like I hear sometimes I I've been fooled many of times where I'm like, yo, I don't know if I'm listening to AI or real. You know, maybe six months ago, a year ago, you can hear that low quality MP3 diering, like weird, but now it's like almost gone, and then you can get stems out of it. So it is a bit spooky, and that's why for me the final product is not as important anymore. Because the barrier to entry the final product is easy, you can just type in a prompt. Anybody, your grandma can go type in a prompt and get a cool song in literally minutes. So for me, I'm like, how do I make sure my place is not lost? And it's about the experience. Yeah. So instead of an artist or a producer just typing a prompt, like they come to me because, oh, we're gonna have fun at the studio. We might go grab food, we might just like it's a journey, we might get to know each other and just make it more of a yeah, just more of an experience. And that's why, even with the show I'm doing, I'm calling it jam sessions, like my last name and sessions. Um, I'm really wanna capture the process because that's the gonna be the highlight in the next year or so, or whatever where we're heading. I think more people are gonna be wanna be outside, they want to go to more events. I think live music is gonna come back, people are gonna record, like rock's gonna come back, more acoustic stuff. In general, like I think that'll be just a natural pushback to what's happening, and I'm I'm I'm good with that. Like, I'm happy that's happening, and I'm kind of that's kind of my focus with AI. Um, but it's so spooky.

SPEAKER_00 45:55

It is spooky, and I think even though Suno is great these days, whenever you get stems from Suno, do you still hear those like artifacts in the stems, especially like the drums and the bass?

SPEAKER_01 46:04

I haven't used it in like three, four months, so I don't know, but somebody told me like, oh, it's perfect now. And I'm just taking their word for it. I haven't used it. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

Um, but you you're saying it does, it still has those weird artifacts, it still has those weird artifacts where it just sounds everything sounds very phasey, yeah, and it takes away from like the punch and the knock, especially in the drums. Right. And then some stems, like, for example, in the drum stem, you'll have like a random guitar show show up or like a random piano show up that you can't really remove. So it's a little bit it's like I think it's pretty far from uh perfect so far.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

Right. Yeah, but the rate it's like advancing everything. Like, brother, I think we're gonna be able to prompt real life physical things within the next like five years. Like you can prompt a car. I'm not even joking. Like, I think we're advancing so fast right now that we don't even realize how fast we're advancing.

SPEAKER_02 46:53

I I think you kind of can do it in a way, like with 3D printers and all that stuff. Like, things are getting there, you know? Yeah. Like a couple of years away, but like, yeah, it's definitely it's definitely heading that direction.

SPEAKER_01 47:03

Yeah, like I don't know if we're gonna bro. A part of me like is being optimistic, but like, yo, we might be able to go to space in our lifetime. Like, I Danny Kate, can we go to space for some later? Yeah, let's go to that right now. Do you think we went to the moon or no? No, we didn't go to the moon. I kind of don't believe too, you know. We went in 19 whatever, 69, and then we haven't been back. That's crazy. Yeah, yeah, fucks. And like the computer they had the size of a building was like a tenth of much power as our iPhone, and they were able to make it to the moon.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

And then you see all the footage from like the old footage, and you're like, I don't know, yeah, I don't know about that, you know?

SPEAKER_01 47:42

Yeah, this is turned into a Joe Rogan conspiracy podcast. Speaking of conspiracy theories, I saw this morning that um speaking of Katy Perry, what's her man? Justin Trudeau. Yeah, apparently he's like um Fidel Castro's son. Because his Fidel Castro's daughter came out and was like confirmed he's like he's my stepbrother or something. I watched the video about it, but you know, like stuff pops up me all the time.

SPEAKER_02 48:10

It's like they have the picture of him and and Fidel Castro. I'm not gonna lie, they kind of look similar, you know. I mean, like they do Pierre. Wait, Justin Trudeau? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

And Fidel Castro? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

No, I never heard about this. We're talking about since COVID.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:25

There's some dark stuff about that Trudeau fan. It's like, I'm not gonna lie. If we go in there, man, you guys already know I'm not a big fan of Justin Trudeau, anyway.

SPEAKER_03 48:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:33

But it's like when you look at uh Pierre, and then you look at Justin, and then you look at Fido and you look at Justin, it's like Pierre doesn't really look like his father, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just saying, you know, I mean, I'm just saying. You know, um, yeah, we kind of got in a little bit different.

SPEAKER_03 48:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:55

I'm like gonna bring him back to music.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

So, how about them plugins?

SPEAKER_00 49:00

So, if you were to restart today, 2026, fresh out the gate, as a producer, right as an engineer, what would you do right now to get your name out there to build your career?

SPEAKER_01 49:11

Yo, that's a really tough question because that's what it feels like I'm trying to do right now with being kind of like more of a focusing on myself as the artist. So I am going through that transition, and something I'm personally struggling with and is just content online and social media, and not in the sense of like I just don't want to do quote unquote content.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

I agree with you 100%.

SPEAKER_01 49:36

And I know it's part of the game, but some I just I'm always being sold something. I go on my phone, whether it's ads, if not, it's not ads, it's other people. If it's not other people, it's my friends that are like posting things and like whatever clothing brand, this music, this. I don't want to be sold to anymore. So, in general, personally, I'm trying to figure out how I can connect with people um beyond social media or do some social media differently, right? Where it like it's something that resonates with me, you know, and that's kind of what I'm in the process of figuring out for my the stuff I'm doing in general, and even how I use social media right now. I take eight months' breaks at a time, sometimes six months' break, turn it off, delete it off my phone. Like, I'm not really in there, but I know when I'm on social media, I get more work, more people remember me, more people see me. Right, that's the thing. Like, you need to be on there, and like that's just a way of life. I just want to do it in a way that actually resonates with me, and like something I'm actually proud to like share and have people enjoy. So, and that with that being said, just doing that, and then another thing is just I want to be, I want to connect with more real people, I want to do this more. I want to talk to real people in real rooms about whatever, but like just be out in the physical world more, like, and I think that's kind of in general, we're just gonna have that pushback because of AI and just being on the in the digital age. So, I don't know, I'd love to throw more events, maybe. I'd love to create community around me and my friends and what I do. Uh I always love to help people, so whatever that means. And like, as far as even the mixing stuff, I try kind of to I've recorded videos of like this is how I mix this song, but uh and it's and it's cool, and everybody loves it. They're like, yo, this is so good. And I I have a few videos, I haven't dropped them just because it just I don't want to, I don't want to, yeah, I don't want to, but I hope I figure out something that resonates with me and I can be consistent with it and enjoy it, you know. So that's kind of how I would start again, and just my goal is still to like make great music, that's my number one goal. So it's like if I'm a producer engineer, obviously finances and stuff like that matter, but for me, ultimately, all that is taken away. I just want to make really cool music with my friends and enjoy it, and it's not about putting it out. I realize when I put up music, I don't actually get the feeling that I think I get, and then I look back, I had so much fun making the song, and that's the part that actually matters. And I realized like what happens in the room is directly what the fan will hear. It's not about your melody, it's not about what your balance is, it's like it's like how you felt in the moment and how can you package that? And then when somebody hears it, unpacks it and feels what you felt. Because I was thinking about like, you know, my favorite records, like let's say System of a Down or something, their their toxicity album, insane. And it's like, yo, I know if if you're recording a drug uh drums and you're doing bed tracks, you're the drummer is doing 10 songs in like eight hours. You know, by the end of the song, he's gonna have blisters, blood, sweat on the snare, and no snare is ever gonna that exact same snare won't sound because the his body temperature changed, how it sounded, the essence of it changed. So, like, I think that's something that's gonna come back, just the uniqueness. And I heard a clip that you talked about yesterday, and I wasn't really usually agreeing with that with outboard gear. You're saying how outboard gear makes you unique, right? And a part of me doesn't agree with that, and a part of me agrees with that, and the part that I agree with it's like no piece of outboard gear is gonna sound the same, like the same tube tech, 10 different tube techs are gonna sound slightly different, you know what I mean? But 10 tube tech plugins, they're all gonna sound the same algorithm on everybody's computer. So that you know, I agree with, but also when I think about like outboard gear, like most of the time you're 90% of the way there, you know, but it's that 10% that actually matters that these days, you know? Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 53:38

Um definitely.

SPEAKER_02 53:40

Yeah, I think the crazy thing with outboard is like it's gonna sound different today, it's gonna sound different tomorrow, exactly the same piece. Right on. That's another, like, you know. I was literally finishing, uh, I was finishing the mixes for uh for Cali's Way uh for a project. Shout out to Cali's. Um and I had the song that I sent her. I printed the mix at like 11 p.m. I sent her the mix. She was like, she loved it, some, some, some, right? But the next day she was like, oh, I listen to it. Let's just like turn something down, but like, just a little bit. So I just I opened the session, I didn't touch anything. I didn't touch nothing, like the same settings of the under equipment, this and that. I literally just like turned the fader down, reprinted it. She's like, it doesn't sound the same, it doesn't feel the same. This is how I'm like, and I'm like, you know, I compared it and I'm like, yeah, she was right. It doesn't sound the same. Even though I had exactly the same settings, it was literally like just printed a couple of hours after, like, you know, when I came back. So it's like you know, room temperature, electric current, like what is it? Like, is it a bunch of variables that actually? I think it's like, you know, uh one thing I noticed the longer the equipment is on, the different it's gonna sound, right? Because it's like if I had it, if I had a bacon for the whole day and like, you know, it was 11 p.m. So I had it on the whole entire day, right? Right. But even if I come in and I, you know, turn it on the same time, the same day the next day, it might not sound the same. Right, right, right. You know? And I think that's a cool thing. Yeah, that's it. It's cool, but then it's like it's also annoying. For me, it's like I got used to it, so I don't care. But then it's like if you're dealing with people that are very particular, what they want to hear, right? They are so used to the mix, this way, yeah, yeah. And then you're trying to just do one change and send them something, and the mix doesn't sound the same. And for them it's more of a feeling, right? Like something might just not feel the same. Then it's like, how can you really recall something to exactly the same state? Right. Just to just to change one thing, right?

SPEAKER_01 55:30

I can't imagine like back in the day how like you had to recall the whole board and like check pictures or whatever and dial things in.

SPEAKER_02 55:37

But I think that's the reason why back in the day records were probably done faster, and it was like you had to compromise. It's like, you know what? Either we're gonna get this or we're gonna go back, we might change something, and we're not really gonna get the same thing, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 55:51

Yeah, spe speed is really interesting when it comes to mixing, like not overthinking. It's so beautiful when you get in a flow state and you're just yeah, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, and like you're like just like that, you're blind, you're just going and everything, you're vibing, you're having fun. And then the mix, like that's when I get mixes mostly done. Like the the other eight hours, like the first hour or so, if the session is nice and organized, I can see everything, I know where everything is, everything's routed the way I wanted. That first like 15 minutes, half an hour is the most crucial for me every single time. And then the other eight hours is the last 10%, you know? Um, so speed is, and I think that's back in the old days, they just had to like pump it out. Like, we're not coming back here, like you know, the shit was much more expensive back then.

SPEAKER_02 56:41

Yeah, you saw they had to get it done much faster. I feel like nowadays, too, it's like you know, people are used to recording hundreds of takes and having like you know, whatever, 30, 40, 50 takes, and then just go in competent and all that stuff. Back in the days, like, man, you have one tape, yeah, you got you got you got one try to do it, you know what I mean? And that's the thing too, right? There's like I feel like back in the day, you really have to be good, you really have to be like musician, musician. Right, you have to have the best guitar players, the best drummers. So it's like when there's no race, yeah. You can't yeah, you can't waste it.

SPEAKER_01 57:12

Yeah, bring that back. Can we not do that? Can we not like say the artist, oh sorry, my Pro Tools only has eight channels, like no more than eight channels, like mix, and that's kind of like I've I've been thinking about like my the the show I'm doing. I'm like just figuring out like the shape of it, and I think one of the things like I want to limit our potential, like limit our pot possibilities, like more like okay, we only can use this many instruments, or just create like a box for us to work in and just see what we can come up with in that box. It's like I think that's why so much great music was made because of limitations. So, in a way, limitation is a positive thing in that sense.

SPEAKER_00 57:51

Yeah, yeah. It's kind of like when you're mixing, sometimes it's better to just know the plugins, know uh like a handful of plugins really, really well instead of like trying a new plugin every time. Right, right, because the plugins you know really, really well to get the job done and you know exactly how it sounds.

SPEAKER_01 58:08

I have a question. How do you guys about feel about filters? I use a lot of filters and I'm just trying trying to figure out I know there's like natural phase, linear phase, and they do different things with the little boost at the end and the bumps and the phase of actual sound, but like do you guys reach for a specific plugin to always because that's been my new favorite thing is just filtering. I use a lot of filtering now, but I do and I personally use the F202 by Mic DSP, it's like the green one. But I'm just wondering, what do you guys use for like filters?

SPEAKER_02 58:41

Um depends on what I'm using the filter for, right? Uh honestly, I I would say like this I don't go specifically to a plugin that just did filtering, I would just go EQ to the shelf. I mean like uh you know, filter on the EQ and just like find what I'm looking for. Usually I use like the SSL EQ2, uh Fab filter, uh Pro Q, yeah. Um sometimes even like the stock EQ7 from Pro Tools. Like that's what I usually use.

SPEAKER_00 59:10

Underrated plugin, very underrated plugin, stock EQ Pro Tools. Yeah, I haven't reached back for it, but I love getting sessions with it on. I'm like, oh this guy.

SPEAKER_02 59:18

Yeah, I use it all the time, yeah. Really? Yeah, cool. I use a lot of like just uh avid stock plugins. Like I love the Pro Compressor, I use it all the time. That's like my go-to.

SPEAKER_01 59:28

I haven't used it, I have it. I have I I realized because I Pro Tools is so stupid with their updates, by the way. Like the fact that we have to pay for updates. Yeah, it's ridiculous. Like I bought the program what 10 years ago. Like, let me just own it. I've pay every two years I have to buy upgrades, but because I bought the newest one, and I think I'm just I was checking my downloads, like available pro compressor. I'll download it, I'll check it out. Because like, yeah, for me, I've been using the F2 to a lot. For some reason, I I like Fab filters, sh shelving or like filtering, yeah. But I I tend like for example, I want to get an elliptic sound radio. Yeah, I'll use pro Q and filter the top and the low, but then I'll start experimenting and like I'll use REQ from uh waves, the old classic waves, yeah, and that just has such a cooler sound. The exact same filters, same that's why I'm asking about filters because they have sounds, you know. And I realized the classic, obviously, like I'm not saying filter everything so the bass lives down there. That's not real either, but like just clean up the low end, but at the same time, something I've been focusing on is just clean up the high end, yeah. Like sounds that just have sparkle, they just don't need to have sparkle because before I only I left everything up the top. Now I'm being precise of what actually lives in the top end, and filters really help me. But I really noticed the sound of filters when I'm filtering the top end.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:48

Uh the camera died again. Man, we gotta figure maybe I should get like a fan or something. Yeah, we we just talk too much, man. Yeah, yeah. I mean we do, yeah. We're supposed to wrap up in like 45 minutes, but no, y'all.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:58

Soon that we're gonna be like Joe Rogan five hours from real, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:04

Yeah, but hey, appreciate you for coming to the show. Of course. Um, and we definitely gonna get you back, man, because I feel like we didn't even scratch this circle. We didn't even start with this.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:14

Like, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:15

I'm ready to yeah more, but yeah, no, it's a great having me. I love the space. Respect and the vibes are incredible.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:21

You guys are hey man, it's uh, you know, we're doing it for the city and maybe for the world, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:26

Yeah, I would yeah, I would love to inspire and show people like just show them everything I know. Like, I have nothing to hide as far as like you know, tips or tricks or game or whatever. There's nothing to hide. You're pro to the solution. You know, there's nothing to hide, but in general, I'm grateful to be here today. Um, it was a pleasure meeting you for the first time, of course. As well, and then reconnecting with my brother Doth. And I gotta give him a shout out. He low-key changed my life, and I told him on the way up here because a few years, maybe well, a lot of years ago, maybe six years ago, he introduced me to Magic Mushrooms.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:03

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:04

Schedule 35, and he gave me the first microdose ever. And I remember taking that, and then that just changed me as a person, period. So, you know, and there's like so a big shout out to you.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:15

Yeah, we'll be back.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:18

Next time is DMT, yeah. Anyway, thank you guys for watching and see you in the next episode. Yes, sir. Thank you.