Kalisway Reveals How She Created A Sound Nobody Else Has

In this episode, we sit down with Kalisway to talk about producing her own music, creating a unique sound, breaking genre rules, and navigating life as an independent artist.

Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:00

What's up, everybody? We have a very special guest today. Callie's way, one of my favorite artists in the city. Um Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Thank you for having me. It's been a lot coming up and wanted to be here with y'all.

SPEAKER_05 0:14

100%. Uh so the first question we always ask everyone is if you could just give us a brief introduction of how you started in music, how you got to where you are today.

SPEAKER_03 0:23

Um I've been producing since I was 13, always used FL. Um, I went to the Remix Project around 2019. Um, that was like 15.0. And then around then, I was like, my big thing was just being in the community, meeting a lot more people who were like in the space in the city um and collaboration because I felt like learning about myself, like I was always doing my own type of work and being like in my own zone. And you know, when like you're just an artist, you just have your old world, but you went in your other worlds. Um so that was like a big inspiration to have been in that space to see that. Um, and then as I was in there, my main thing was that I was actually doing audio engineering before I even did um music production, like really focusing on that and being an artist. Like I wanted to be behind the scenes, like I didn't want to like be in an artist. Um, but Rich Kid really was like, no, your voice is too different. Like you have to be, you know, the front face. Um, so he pushed me, he challenged me to make like an EP. So I started working on an EP as I was in that program. And then there was like a lot of panels that we had throughout the year. Um, and one of these panels that we had that was really inspiring for me was a business panel regarding um being in the industry and being independent and how much work it requires to be an artist. Um, and as I was in that program and like listening to that panel overall, um, the the panelist that inspired me the most was Worldwide Ty, um, who was managing Brand at the Time and Brand Fias. And so when I was listening to him, I was like, man, I have to ask him a question. I just want to, I feel like this is time to learn something great from someone who does this like every day. Um and I literally just asked him, I said, hey, like, how can I find a team that is genuine, that really wants to grow from the ground up and like just literally like focus on the craft? That's all I want. Like someone genuine that just wants to build with me. And he gave me his phone number. We connected. I didn't tell him I did music at the time, I literally just asked him that question.

SPEAKER_04 2:10

Right.

SPEAKER_03 2:11

And he told me, like, from like three years after, like, he was like, Oh, I'll just the only one you, you know, you're the only person that I gave my phone number to. So it was like really inspiring to hear that. But um, we connected and then eventually he asked me, like, oh, like, what do you do? Told him I did music. I sent him cherry, which was not finished at the time. Um, and then he finally got back to me, like it was like four hours. I was like, Oh my god, this is the longest four hours ever. Like, I was crap. Oh my god. I was like, oh my god, he's gonna leave me ongoes. And then he got back and he was like, Oh, can I fly you to LA? Like, I love you to be routine. So I went to LA, I met Brand, I met everybody, I met like all the musicians that he's working with. Um, literally went to, I think it was called Nightbud or something like that. It's a studio there and I'm super inspiring, great people. Um, made a lot of demos at night, and like that changed my life because it was like being around that just inspired me. Um, and after he seen my seen how I perform in per in person, like my voice and everything like that, he he was like, Oh, you know, I actually invited you here because I just need to see if your voice is real.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

And I was like, Yes, I'm like, yes, I don't have anything on here.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

And he's like, Yeah, like your tone is insane. Like, I've never heard something like that. And you produce and you song right by yourself. Or he's like, I've never heard that combo. So he's like, honestly, like, um, he loved the tap in with me, don't want to lock it in paper right now, just see how it goes for a year. Well, if it goes well, then we lock it in, and yeah, we've been locked in for what is like seven years.

SPEAKER_05 3:29

Wow. So so this is your man manager, yeah. Wow, okay. That's amazing. That's a crazy story.

SPEAKER_07 3:35

It is the crazy thing I always wanted to ask. I've never asked you this question, but you answering everything right now.

SPEAKER_05 3:40

But it is insane because you know, you hear so many stories of people having unfortunately like bad relationships with their manager. There's always fallout, someone's trying to even like steal money from each other. Like, how would you say is the importance behind actually finding a good manager for you to just focus on being an artist and not having to worry so much about like the business aspects of anything else?

SPEAKER_03 4:04

I think being independent overall is a hard thing to manage with, anyways. And I think finding a team that believes in you but also is like a safe space for you is very important. Yeah. Um, I think to find it is kind of like it's a relationship, it's like finding your partner. It's like you kind of just have to go through your walk. Right. Like you don't really know until you're really through it with them. Um, and I think for them, like I've we've just been in so many different situations and like constantly doing this for seven years, um, you know, having the upturnile of like going up and like slowly going up and taking that pace and not trying to like fight or like reach for success super fast. It's like we found our own success as we kept growing slowly. Um and that's been the beauty is that we're not like blaming each other for our pace or expecting something. It's like we know that this takes work and we're all accountable of like all that we need to do to get there. Um, so I think holding everybody accountable on the team is important to ensure that we're all doing the right things, putting in the effort as an artist yourself, like we're having high expectations if you're not putting in the work for that. Um, and then also knowing like how much this requires, because it's like you don't want to place so much judgment on yourself or the team if you know that this might not this might take more than five years, it might take more than 10 years. Like you don't know, like you just really have to keep going. Um but if you find that you as an artist is like bickering all the time with your team, like about not even work at this point, like then you might as well just like move on. But there, I mean, it's a team is like a relationship. Like sometimes you're just gonna be arguing, sometimes be cool. But as long as you guys are getting work done and it's not toxic and it's not becoming like an unsafe space for you, you know you can push through and and like you go to the other side for it.

SPEAKER_05 5:38

Makes sense. So so do you have other people as well that's part of your team, or is it just you and your manager? Do you have like other people as well?

SPEAKER_03 5:44

Yeah, so um basically my team is under like culture, that's like a um, I would say like an artist agency, like a creative agency, and they do bunches of stuff. They do like for um marketing, they do for um partnerships, and they do for management. Well, I'm on the management side, so um, I have Ty Basin as my manager, and then I have Jane Andrew as my manager. They work as they work as one, but they're two. Um so I would say Jane is more of like the creative manager where she focuses more on like how I'm portrayed and like how things look and like how it should be organized in terms of visual aspects. And then we have Ty, who was like super business and like marketing, and like how can we promote this? How where can it live? Like, how like how can we break through? Um so that's how I have them. And then we have a whole bigger aspect of the team behind where it's like almost like I would say 10 plus people of like um helping with distro and like helping to make sure the music is reached on playlists and everything like that. Um, so we have a pretty like good, sufficient team of just people who are helping to make this vision come to life.

SPEAKER_05 6:43

That's amazing. I I think it's amazing there's there's such a big structure around your music and you having such a big team because you know there's always people who are like, no, I can do everything myself. I don't need no manager. Like, I'm a one-man team. I shoot my own photos, I do my own cover, I shoot my own videos. Like, like, what do you think about people who have that kind of mindset? Do you think it's holding them back?

SPEAKER_03 7:02

Honestly, good for you, but that's gonna get tiring eventually. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I think it's very much a like a great skill to have. I think if you're starting out and you don't have management, it's great to have that skill because now you know exactly what you want. Right. And like you can advocate and you can speak that to people when you hire them in the future. However, long term, that's just not sustainable. Right. You know what I mean? Being the cameraman, being the videographer, being like literally the person that answers the emails, being the person that records, be that like, are you even sleeping at this point? Like, you know what I mean? Like, you gotta be able to manage that. And I think I learned very early on, because like I told Doc from Tom that I knew about terminology and speaking to him in the studio because like I lived that life for a little bit when I couldn't get to that stage of like hiring someone else to do it, right? So, like being able to have that knowledge, it helped me, but I knew at some point I needed to delegate, right? And that was having someone who lives and loves and breathes that, and being able to have like, hey, I know what I want, but you do this way better. So let me let me live in this space with you. And I think that's just important to have as a skill in life. Whenever you want to achieve something, you have to have a community to help you to get there.

SPEAKER_05 8:07

100%. Yeah. So how long have you and Dalby locked in together now for?

SPEAKER_03 8:11

I guess it's that's almost the same, almost like seven years.

SPEAKER_05 8:14

Wow, that's crazy. It's been a long since I think a long time as a PCA.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

It's been a long time from the beginning.

SPEAKER_05 8:20

How would you say is like how important would you say is the significance of having an engineer who you build with as opposed to going from different studio to studio getting mixed this album by this person or this song by this person and always switching around? Do you think having a dedicated engineer who you can build with and learn and grow with, like, do you think that's really important?

SPEAKER_03 8:40

I think it's highly important. I think it's just uh a testament to like how bad do you really want to build like a long-term vision of like growth with the people that have started with you? Because I think my main importance is like, I don't mind like trying different things and seeing if I need to go to a different fit. But I think the one thing that I've had with Dart, which is what I love, is that like he heard something special and like he appreciated it, and I appreciated that he actually loved it. So that's the that's the main thing to me. If you enjoy listening to the music, I know that you're gonna care more and I know that you're gonna put more attention into it because you actually see where I'm trying to go with it, versus like going to someone who's like, oh, okay, like I see you're making movement, I wanna do what do something.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 9:18

I mean, I mean to each their own, we all gotta make a bag in this industry, but I just find that the better the relationship is and the more that you actually have like a passion behind it, the more the work is going to increase each time. And that's what I found with Dot is that like there was an actual genuine love for what he saw me doing, and he could see the vision from it very early. And like I trusted in that with him. And like he just taught me so many things. Like, and early on, it wasn't like we were doing easy peasy, like I was super stubborn, I was not stubborn, you know what I mean? I'm like, no, it's a seller demo, seller demo. Oh, gosh, so like, yeah, and I was just like, you know, he grew with me and he's like, no, like I get it, but like trust me, like I'm gonna do certain things, and like I want to push it there that I can hear what you're trying to do, but I also need you to give me that space to do what I do, you know what I mean? And it's like I had to continue to grow with that with him, and he allowed me to have that space, you know. I mean, I don't know if anyone would have gave me that space. Maybe somebody like, you know what? Like, this is what it needs to be, and like we just want to work, but like he allowed me that space. So I think it's important to have someone like that that can understand that, that can push you, and that you can grow together with because it's only gonna make you better as you go along.

SPEAKER_07 10:21

Yeah, I can. I think even on my way, everything that you said is true, but I've learned so much by working with you because you have a very specific taste of how you like to have your things, and you know, in the beginning, I'm not gonna lie, you know, it was always like uh and I I think it's also because my state of mind was like I was focused on this, yeah, and then I have to like kind of look in a different direction. But once I understood it, I'm like, every song is different, every feeling is supposed to be different. So when you tell me certain things, I might not always understand it right in the beginning, but then when we put it together, when we sit down, when we do it, I'm like, ah, it makes sense. All of a sudden, I'll bring it up. That's what it is. You know, so I think it's like I think on both sides, both engineering and the artist, sometimes you just need that time to like let it grow and see if you guys click, and once it clicks, it's like it's just easy from there, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:13

Most of the time in studio sessions now, me and Dada Wendy talking. Like that's that's like how long like we're taking time to like get that synergy. Cause it's like before I'm like, I don't know, this was not feeling good. Like, you know, the body needs to be here. He's like, oh, what do you hear? Like, I feel like it needs to be here. But like now, when I tell him from the jump, hey, my sonics of this album or this piece, I want it to feel like this. Right. Most of the time, like I just let him do his thing. He creates that world that there's little tweaks I might say, hey, like I wanted to feel a little bit more like this. Right. But like it's pretty much like already have the basis once we're in the studio together. So yeah, it's taken it's taking time to get there, but I'm like really proud of that.

SPEAKER_05 11:52

Yeah. Sure. So do you still record yourself or it's only producing and being an artist now?

SPEAKER_03 11:58

Um, I would say I go to Dart now for mainly recording. Like, I if I'm doing like demos, I'll still like doing on my phone to get the actual basis of the idea alive, or like um even for this album, like I travel all the way to Korea to record the Esperance just to get inspiration and just to push myself out of the comfort zone. But like it was great to do that because honestly, then I found my mic that I love, which we couldn't get, but it's okay. Like, we still let's get it!

SPEAKER_06 12:22

I think we should tell that story, yeah. What's his mic? Um 251.

SPEAKER_04 12:28

Yeah, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

251 is it 251 E?

SPEAKER_07 12:32

Uh, I think it was E, yeah. E51 E Telephone E.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

Yeah, it's so good. But like the thing is, it was a bunch of things. Like, I honestly think the mic just sounds good itself, but like overall, uh, in Korea, the the setup that the engineer had over there, his name is Manny Shadows, Manny's super dope. But like, he had this like analog, like, I can't remember what it was, but me, I told Dot about it, and like he was like, Oh, this is like super rare.

SPEAKER_07 12:55

Like, it was like Vintage, I think it was like 1084, yeah, 251. And there was like almost there was like this one piece, I forgot the name of it.

SPEAKER_03 13:05

It was so specific, and like it was like these two things that I was like, okay, like we don't have that, but I feel like we can still achieve it. So I was like going through the ringer with the I was like, we need to find this mic. I don't care about the other two joints, but like we need to find this mic because uh overall the tone is there. And I just love the way it my voice felt, and like it carried the body of my my voice and the depth, and it still had the highs. So we were close. We were like looking for it, we're trying to rent it, we're trying to do all the things. We found one so close. Yeah, we were literally this close to getting the mic. The guy that we were talking to, I don't even say his name, he pissed me off. Yeah, we picked it up. But like it took two months, I think, right? We were working on this mic. This is how long? It didn't even need to take that long. He was just taking long in his responses to get back to us, and so finally we're getting near to like nailing this down. The day that we're about to say, okay, we're good to go. This man talking about, oh, I don't trust it, like trust what?

SPEAKER_07 13:58

Trust you guys? Yeah, they said something that there's a red flag, some, some, some foolishness, right? I read the email and I was like, brother, two months. We've been trying to find your mic. Yeah, we were we had the communication, I had to get the extra insurance for the mic.

SPEAKER_06 14:14

That's fine.

SPEAKER_07 14:14

I had to do the whole thing, I had to send him the papers. There was a whole bunch of things I had to do. Yo, the man annoyed. And he's just like, oh, there's red flag, some some. Uh sorry, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna rent the microphone to you. That's that's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

I was so cheating. I'm like, we just spent too much on like going back and forth with you, and now you're gonna tell us you don't trust us. You didn't trust us to do much.

SPEAKER_07 14:36

That's insane. It was crazy. The thing is that you know, it's a rare microphone, so it's not easy to find. There's a couple of studios in the city that have it. Lucian has one. They do, yeah, but they don't rent. Oh, there's like called a couple of other studios that had it, but none of them rented it. And you know, the microphone is like expensive $22,000, $23,000, something.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

Yeah, so like even just the rent, it was like, damn, it's gonna cost us a little bit, but I would rather rent it because I was like, oh, we can't buy buy it right now. But like even the fact we were so close and then it didn't fall through, it was like that was so annoying. But like Dodd still had like a backup, and which one was this?

SPEAKER_07 15:13

This was the Funkin' T51. Yeah, so it's like a modern version, like the modern version of the 251, but it's like you know, not 20,000 times.

SPEAKER_05 15:23

Exactly.

unknown 15:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:25

So it's still sounded really good, it still had uh the depth, so it's not it wasn't entirely different. I still like the to um the 20 uh 251e, but it's like it it was good that he had that in the bag. Because like I I was like, damn, like I still want to be in a telefunkin' world, my need the my my voice to feel like that. Um, but I'm happy that we found something to improvise with and like carry it out, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 15:46

And I think it ended up sounding really good. Every time I listen to the project, I'm like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Yeah, the vocal sort of is clean.

SPEAKER_07 15:50

Yeah, and I feel like there's definitely a difference between the Manly that we used on the other projects and the telefunkin' that we're using right now. But I feel like I like the vibe. I like the I'm not saying manly, like I love manly, but I still love the manly. Telefunkin brought like something different to the table. But even our decisions, how we went about the vocals, we have to think a little bit different how we were.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:11

That's cool. So so for your vocals specifically, you prefer the telefunken over the manly?

SPEAKER_03 16:16

I would say for this project, I don't know what the other music, like other music that I create. I don't know. I could go back to the Manly and be like that fits more for that world. But I feel like for what I wanted to create for this project, it was better for that world. I see.

SPEAKER_05 16:29

This is the project you guys are currently working on with one that we already finished.

SPEAKER_03 16:32

Yeah, we already finished. It's about to come out. Like once, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 16:35

Got you guys. I wanna I wanna say something because you said it in a very, very uh proper way. Where you're like, you know what, I'm working on the project, I want something that sounds like this. You know, so it's like you have this idea of let's try different tools to get it there. Yeah. Where I feel like with a lot of people, they are so used to just having one specific sound for the whole thing. They don't think about the project, like how sonically we can get it. Just like sure, put the my chain, whatever the chain, put the same thing and just let it rip.

unknown 17:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 17:04

You know, which I don't think is the right way to go about it. Because if you want to give a different sonics to the project, you gotta kind of you know look around, play around and see what fits.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:16

I agree. So you're both the so you do all the production for your music, right? Yeah. Okay. So how do you balance being both the artist and the producer? Is it hard for you to like switch hats or know when to be a producer or know when to be an artist? Is that challenging to balance?

SPEAKER_03 17:32

I wouldn't say it's challenging because I I I've always had it naturally. Um, I feel like since the beginning, like even when I started producing, like I always had ideas and vocal melodies that would come at the same time. It was just about like actually channeling it and accepting that my voice was special and like allowing it to shine through. I always knew it was there, but I just was more in my like production bag. Um but when I allowed myself to really embrace that part of me and be like, oh no, I have ideas, I have songs, like I can't put them together and I can't create that world, then it was just seamless. So every single time I would have an idea and I would make it like a voice memo or I'd do it. Um, it was just natural. Like all these songs that I put out in the past, like they're literally from voice memos of me walking on the street and I just had a whole idea come, or I'm like chilling on my couch and like a whole idea come. Like I remember when I did Babumpin', like that I literally was sitting watching, like I don't even know. I think it was like a Jeopardy, something random. And I'm literally sitting there and I made the whole song on my phone. And then I just put it in, I started producing it from all those ideas that I had. I made a drum, rhythms with my mouth, all those things. So um it's very fun for me to do it because I just feel like it's just something that's been seamless forever.

SPEAKER_05 18:40

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:41

So do you usually start with making the beat first where you have like uh some lyric kind of melody for a flow in your head, and you build around that? What usually comes first?

SPEAKER_03 18:51

It honestly depends like what modem is. Sometimes the whole song can come to me and I'm like singing it with the drum idea, and then like the vocal, like the vocal melodies come, the lyrics, everything can come to me. It really depends. A lot of my songs have come that way, but then sometimes I'm like, oh, I feel like a different mode, so then I just start making drums. If I'm like producing and I'm like like just trying to make some ideas, usually it's drums first, and then I'll build upon it. But it can be different too, because I've had songs like um Superstar, where I had the the brass chords first, and then the drums came after, and I built upon it, and then everything like came together. So it really just depends what mode like I'm in.

SPEAKER_05 19:27

So do you find it hard then to like tell because you're both the producer and the artist, do you find it hard sometimes to tell yourself, like, okay, this is done? Like, I don't want to work on this anymore, or do you always just have a tendency to keep going back to things, changing things with the beat, or changing things with the vocals because you're able to do both things?

SPEAKER_03 19:43

No, I find that I'm actually really certain on when something is done. Cause like I am a person where if I press it, if I play it three times and I'm starting to listen to it, I don't even realize I'm listening to it, then I know that it's finished. It's like I don't have any more critiques. Like, do you know what I mean? If I'm like actually starting to enjoy it and it's just in the background, I'm getting distracted, then I'm like, okay, like I'm an avid listener. Like you I mean, and that's how I've always like treated it is like if I'm not overlooking anymore, then why am I adding anything more? If I wake up the next morning, I still feel the same. I don't need to touch it anymore. Cause I just feel like if it feels good, then it feels good. If it feels like I'm gonna remember it and it's catchy to me, then it must be something catchy that other people can recognize too. Um, and I always push myself to a bounce. I always feel like when I have an idea, I always hear the actual vision from the beginning. So I always know I'm like, this needs to be big, and I'm going to create it big until I feel like it's like certain. So I always have that vision in mind before I even go into it. I never go into something where I'm like, oh, this sounds cool, that that's it. Like I can't, like, unless it feels like yes, like I would press this on play and it would feel impactful. That is how I always approach something. It has to feel like something like, oh man, I've never heard this before. Like, that's how I listen to my stuff.

SPEAKER_05 20:52

Right, right. Do you think like, so does that happen to you often, or is it like the 10th idea, the 20th idea that you start feeling that way?

SPEAKER_03 20:59

Honestly, most of the time, it's usually the first idea. Wow, that's great. Which with sugar was the first time ever that I actually had like three other ideas before I made like I had the final idea for sugar. Like sugar, I had like three other ideas, and I was like, nah, this is not it. Like I thought the feeling that I wanted from it, it wasn't getting there. And so I gave myself like two days and I was like, I'm okay, I'm not gonna touch it anymore. Like, I'm just gonna give myself time, I'm gonna come back to it, and then we're gonna try again. And then yeah, it just came, it was like the feeling, the chores were there, and everything like with the rhythm, it came to life. So it's like I that's why I'm saying, like, with my music, I know what I want from it. Right. So it's like I won't, like, yeah, I won't allow myself to like give up on that like first and like feeling that I had. Right. And then once I feel that I go with it and I let it breathe and I create it and don't like go back on it, because it's like then you're gonna overwork the music, you know?

SPEAKER_05 21:51

Yeah, that makes sense. Uh so would you say also that being able to produce your own music has been a large part of you creating your own unique sound?

SPEAKER_03 21:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like over overall, like being able to produce is something that I'm so proud of because it's like, I mean, I tell this all the time I go on stage, I go to shows, I talk about it with everyone, and they're like unbelievable, they can't believe that I make my own music because they're they're literally thinking like someone has created this world with me. And it's like, no, like I have literally been honing in and creating this world myself from the ground up because I know my stuff is so different. I I have tried being in studios and getting people to do it, but like I think people when they hear my voice, they envision something else for me. So they try to put me in a box that would suit them and like, oh, your voice would fit here. Like it would be cool for this. And it's like, cool, I can go on anything, really. Like, I can do a lot of stuff. I'm very talented. However, like I know the so the sonics that I'm trying to create. No one's doing them. So I have to make it. Right. And like that, I love that because if you hear my sound, you're gonna know from pressing play on a beat or pressing play on my voice, you know that's me. Right. And I've created that world. And now if I create that a beat for somebody else, they're gonna know it's me because my my stuff is so like unique.

SPEAKER_05 23:03

Well, so what what what do people what genre do people try to like box you into typically when you do those things?

SPEAKER_03 23:09

Um, like you know, the basic dark dark RB for Toronto, like you know what I mean, like all the basic types of you know what I mean? Like, and it's cool, like whatever. Like I can hear it and I envision it and it makes sense. Like they just want something smooth and they want like RB feel, and it's cool, but I just don't chase what's already been done. Like, I just don't feel it. It's not motivating to me. Like, okay, sick, yes, it can work, yes, it sounds like something that should. However, why don't we try to do something that no one has heard so we can break the box? You know what I mean? That's what I'm into, which is why I've always been like, no, like, even if I'm on a session, I'm like, no, no, like we're that's too safe, but let's like push to something else. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:47

So it's funny you mentioned that dark RB song. The the couple episodes ago we were talking to Francis and we were talking about the same thing, how it's front. Whatever people think of Toronto is that dark RB.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

I'm depressed, I don't got a girl. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

I'm I'm broken. I was like, I don't want to do that. Like, that's too depressing.

SPEAKER_05 24:12

Yeah, but so do you think growing up in Toronto, being surrounded by that genre and that music so much and so many people doing that sound, was it more challenging for you to kind of like take yourself away from it, or were you always inclined to just do something different?

SPEAKER_03 24:26

I never would I don't think I would say take away from it or like take myself away from it, because I I feel like I've always like just been different. Like I feel like I've always like I've always appreciated that world. I feel like it inspired the city, it opened up doors, having like icons like the weekend and Drake, you know, open up those doors. I love it, party all those days. But like I always found that to be like, oh, you know, that's super inspiring. I love that. They created a Sonic for that. Right. I want to do something else that the city can also recognize. So I was always like more of a low rider. I love upbeat music, I love um LA, I love like things that just make you like groovy, that you can bounce to, that you feel happy to. And that's always been like my personality and who I am in general. So I always wanted to make something like that, but I just never heard it in the way that I wanted to do it. So I just wanted to create that world myself, which is why I was inspired by like traveling and and going to LA and like actually seeing the things that I wanted to create in my world that helped bring it together. And that's why I always say like my music sounds like palm trees, because it just feels it. Right. Yeah, like I just I'm very much into like making music that makes you actually vibration and make feel happy.

SPEAKER_05 25:31

Right, right. So what would you say some of like are your biggest musical inspirations growing up that helped curate the sound for you?

SPEAKER_03 25:37

Uh for sure, like Missy Elliott, uh Pharrell, um, for sure, like if I went to like Fung, like Bootsy Collins, George Clinton's, uh Erica Badu, Janet Jackson, like all those, those were like things that I was like, you know what I mean? Like you can hear the space and you can hear like the differences in the music and how they pushed out the box. Like those were my my definitely my inspirations.

SPEAKER_05 26:00

Right. So were you so when you first started making music, was it automatically you making this genre that you're talking about right now, or did you start somewhere else and slowly transition to this genre that you're in right now?

SPEAKER_03 26:12

Um, I would say at first I actually wasn't even making a genre. What I would do so I could learn um space and I could learn rhythm and I can like not that I didn't have it, but I think I just learned was learning about like, okay, if I want to make a beat, like what makes this beat that I love so special? So I would listen to a song that I would love and I would recreate it. So I would like continuously make the beats myself, and then I would like listen to it, keep doing that as practice and like learning, and then I would try to do it again on a next beat that I would love and like push myself. I'm like, whoa, the way that they like like kind of like started the snares there. Like, how do they do that? And I would like do it again and learn other skills, and so then I would apply it to the songs that I wanted to do, and then use that as ways to push myself to like kind of get better with my production. So it was like I already knew the sound I wanted to do, I just had to learn the little skills to apply it to my own.

SPEAKER_05 27:02

Would you say it was harder for you to learn how to be a better producer or how to be a better artist? Or are they kind of both similar?

SPEAKER_03 27:10

That's a good question. I feel like it was actually harder to do production because I feel like production for me is like the world. Like you're creating the world, you're creating the basis, and like the the songwriting, I was always like it was so easy for me. Like the coming up with melodies is I don't want to say it like that, but it's like nothing to me. Like I like, I just it comes up really seamless. Like it's nothing, like I really just I've had fun with it. Um, I don't put too much pressure on it. Like, I know how things are supposed to sound, I know how arrangement's supposed to be. Like I know, like songwriting-wise, I feel like that's something that I've always had as a skill, but like production, I felt like I always had to like challenge myself to be like, no, like there's like certain mixes in the the beat before I even give it to Dot, like how I want it to feel, and like how I want the space to feel, and like why is it that like a song like this that's like 20 years old still hits? Like, I want it to feel like that, like I wanted to have pieces of that in there, and that took me a long time to even feel like yeah, I know what I'm doing. Right. And like I I feel like I just got there. Like, maybe people could say it would already sound like that, but I feel like I just got there like two years ago. Like, that's what I feel, yeah. Cause I'm like, I I'm I'm man work ethic is so different. Like, I just feel like, yeah, something sounds good, but I feel like I can always do it better. Right. And I feel like I got to that place with a kid from Toronto, and then like I just been excelling since. But that's when I felt like I was like, yeah, I know exactly what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_05 28:31

So are you fully self-taught or did you go to like classes? Did you do piano as a kid or any instruments?

SPEAKER_03 28:37

Oh my god, thank you for asking. I don't know any theory. I never have. Um yeah, I never want to give credit and said I did because I don't, I don't know anything. But like what I would do is like when I was younger, again, like I would just listen to my songs and then I would hear chords and I would improvise them in the music, and I would just keep challenging myself. And I find that like my mind just knows what I want to sing, and I'm already kind of singing chords as I make ideas. Right. So I would just like create them in the music somehow. I can't explain it. I just know how to do it. I don't know how I'm doing it, but I'm grateful for it and I'm grateful for the skill. Um, and I think like I just continue to do that. Like I just know how to continuously push myself, and by doing that, it's actually taught me more as I go along.

SPEAKER_05 29:17

So interesting. So you're just playing everything by ear, no theory at all.

SPEAKER_03 29:21

I've never I've never learned from like a college or anything like that. I did go to college for independent music production at Seneca just before remix, but it was for more like um audio engineering and like being an independent artist and like really learning about like um how to have stage etiquette and stuff like that. Um and I had really good professors that just helped us to overall learn about being like an artist in this industry. But in terms of like production for myself, like I I've learned that from the ground up from just like learning on YouTube, and it was really mixing stuff. Like it wasn't even like because I felt like I learned learned the tutorials of like how to do certain things on FL, but I felt like the best way was just learning it myself. So I just kept like pushing myself and like practicing each day to make a new beat and stuff like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:02

So you're so you're an FL user, yeah. Okay. FL UC. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 30:07

You got that produce too. Maybe I mean I use produce for recording, but like for my main creating like foundation, it's FL.

SPEAKER_05 30:16

Okay. Yeah, yeah. I think producing proposals is a nice. Yeah, producing produces is a suicide. It's just impossible.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

I mean, I still need that perpetual.

SPEAKER_06 30:24

So I'm saying, you know what gives us produce is the first talent, read it.

SPEAKER_05 30:32

Yeah, the monthly subscriptions, man, it's just it's the OP. It is getting it. I can't lie.

SPEAKER_07 30:38

I can't lie. Well, I don't think FL is gonna do it, you know. They don't have subscriptions, no?

SPEAKER_03 30:43

No, it's just I mean that's what I've loved about FL. Like, I bought it and I don't have to worry about it no more. Every time it's an update, it's good.

SPEAKER_05 30:49

Like, I was a lot of cracks of FL too.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Yeah, you might guys don't be doing it.

SPEAKER_06 30:58

Yeah.

unknown 30:58

No.

SPEAKER_07 30:59

I think and I I I think a long time, like 20 years ago and stuff when software was very expensive. I understand why people are cracking stuff all the time. I feel like nowadays everything got so much cheaper, like plugins got so much cheaper, the software got so much cheaper that it's like it almost like doesn't really make sense to crack things.

SPEAKER_05 31:18

I feel but I still feel like the best plugins are still really expensive, like couple builds. Like UAD, like UAD stuff, or even just like, for example, we've bought Sooth outright, it'd be three builds.

SPEAKER_06 31:28

Oh yeah, it's expensive.

SPEAKER_07 31:29

But Spain is also because those are like smaller companies, they're not like big companies. And they know their plugins are good, so you know they know people will buy them. That's true. That's true. But I remember, man, back in the day, waves, I think it was uh Waves was the gold block gold. No, there was a gold. Something was like eight thousand dollars or something. Isn't it still something like that? Or or is it cheaper? They always say it's that, but like they always discounts it. I'm getting emails for waves like every two days. It's like don't miss it! For hours promotion, this plugin for $2.99 to $19. And then there's another one. So it's like, I don't think I ever bought a plugin from Waves at the full price. The most I paid for the plug-in from Waves was like $49. Yeah. And that was expensive, dude. Like, I was like, man, I don't want to spend $49 on Waves.

SPEAKER_05 32:17

You know, I mean mostly that was like $19. Yes. So it is true. But Waves is still one of my favorite plugins companies at the time. They're just so legendary and so consistent with it. It always works. It is work, you know, for years on end. Like it's it's gonna last forever.

SPEAKER_03 32:33

What's your go-to plugin for Waves?

SPEAKER_05 32:35

From Waves, I love the R compressor, love the R Vox. I honestly love their SSL channel. I love the DSer. I love the C honestly, the CLA2A is my I love it more than the UAD one. You like the Waves one? I love the U CLA2A, man. It's it's it's for me, it just hits a little bit smoother.

SPEAKER_03 32:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 32:56

For my application. Yeah, I get it.

SPEAKER_03 32:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah. My my top is just R base. I obviously might say, and then like obviously, like, um, for me, he already knows H delay is my go-to. Yes, stealing a little ping pong. But like those are like things that I will always use from them. Because I just feel like the bottom end on the art base is just different.

SPEAKER_05 33:18

It is, it is. Yeah, the only one that I would say that I love as well that's comparable to the art base is the UAD voice of God.

SPEAKER_03 33:25

That one's really really I do have that one as well. I feel like there's slight differences. Like, I I like it. I feel like voice of God, um, there's like maybe a little bit of like a difference with it where it's like I feel like the harmonics and the art base is what I'm looking for. And I feel like it gives me that depth, but it still gives me like still the character from the original base, versus like voice of God is amazing, but sometimes I lose the character from it. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 33:48

So yeah, what you're saying. It might not be as easy to because R base, you can blend it a lot easier. It's like the saturation up. Yeah, yeah, definitely. So, what are some other plugins that you have are go-to's when you're producing? Even like synths, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

Honestly, my synth go-tos are always like rolling, anything rolling. Oh no. Um, if I'm doing anything with like sound, I would say from waves. I what is it called? Like the uh P, like it's like some spacer. Can't remember embrace. Oh, the P Story T. Yeah. Or it's like, yeah, if it yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:22

Oh yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_03 34:24

Honestly, me and Doc, we're talking about that the other time because I'm pretty sure I gave him stems and he's like, you spread it too much.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Let me bring it back. I went too crazy. Um, but yeah, like I like to use that one sometimes. I just feel like it gives him like the the width, but he also adds width, so then we have to like D, like you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 34:41

Right, right, right. Um, but I like using that. Um I love the sound shifter. I use it a lot. Yeah, sounds like whenever I like I'm trying to get to like different like places of keys or stuff like that, or just feelings. Like, I kind of like being in between. It is hard because I have a question for you, here we go.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

What are you gonna say?

SPEAKER_07 34:59

Notice one thing, the way how you use sound shifter. Usually people do it like specifically, you know, uh minus one semi-toe, two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Although she goes frequency.

SPEAKER_06 35:09

She has, yeah, she's like frequency, she goes through the frequency. It's so specific.

SPEAKER_07 35:16

So I'm like, I'm like, but I think it's also it works for you because you don't use auto-tune. So it's you're like tuning your vocal naturally to oh you zero auto tune.

SPEAKER_06 35:27

No, wow, that's wow, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_07 35:31

Wow, yeah, like it like zero percent auto-tune, not at all. And maybe three percent melodyne every now and then. But she likes to just like kind of take the way I was.

SPEAKER_05 35:42

That'll look a flex in 2026. I'm not gonna lie, that's a flex.

SPEAKER_03 35:45

Yeah, that's a huge flex. When he gets to the sessions, like he's like, okay, can you send me the Azure screenshot? Like, how? And it's because like I happen so specific where it is that, like, yeah, like even with music-wise, it's kind of hard to play the music to what it is because not everybody gotta tune their instrument to be exactly like that. But I like that. That's what Prince did. Like, you really can't do that.

SPEAKER_05 36:03

So you're taking all your vocals and then pitching it up just like slightly up or down east.

SPEAKER_03 36:10

Oh, the production. Yeah. Oh, I see. So, like wherever the production is like pitched, like I'm singing to that.

SPEAKER_05 36:16

Oh, I see. Interesting. Okay. Do you find yourself tending to like usually pitch it down more or up? Is there like more up?

SPEAKER_03 36:23

Yeah, I find I pitch it up more. Um, I haven't really pitched it down because I feel like when I pitch it too down, it kind of like gets a little bit like muddy. Yes. Um, so I try to stay away from going down. But yeah, going up has been like a little bit in my pocket. Like I try not to go too far because then he starts like sound a little bit like wavering and like phasing, but like I usually go up, yeah, if I'm pitching.

SPEAKER_05 36:42

Well, it's so interesting. Do you find that it just gives a different sound, or or what is it about pitching things up or down? Um sounds so nice.

SPEAKER_03 36:49

So sometimes I love a track and it feels good, but it's just the curiosity of how like it could sound if I were to pitch it. And sometimes when I have that curiosity, it's brought me to an even like deeper love for the track. So I'm like, oh, this sounds even better. And if I'm sitting with it and I'm rocking with it, and it feels like I'm vibing with it even more, then I usually leave it like that and like just rock with it. And it's super easy for me to transition like whatever vocal tone I had before and like go to that next key.

SPEAKER_05 37:15

Right. Yeah. So are you also doing like pre-mixes on your beats before you're sending it to Dot? Like, do you like things always a specific, very specific way?

SPEAKER_03 37:23

Um, yeah, I would find that I kind of leave it in like a certain balance so he has an idea of how I like it. Sometimes it does change when we're going to like the final mixes. I'm like, oh, you know what? I had the hi-hats lower, but I kind of want them a little bit louder. Or like if I have the drums a certain way, I do like to make sure they still kind of feel that same tone. But like most of the time, I want him to make it feel clean, like as clean as possible. So like I'll leave them very rough, but he knows how to bring it up and elevate it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:46

That makes sense. That makes sense. So for an artist who's starting today, what would be your advice for someone who's trying to find their sound in 2026?

SPEAKER_03 37:57

Um, I would just say, like, listen, like actually study music. I feel like people don't do that no more. Like 100%. Every single time I have a project, I spend like like at least two months like listening to the music that I love and like completely like going into that world of why I love that music. And I feel like that is something that's not done anymore. Cause it's like I travel and I went to Japan, and like the appreciation they have for music is so deep that when you come back to North America, you're like, wow, we we kind of treat music like it's like disposable almost. Like it's just like we create it and it's like, here's another hundred songs on Friday, here's another hundred thousand songs on Friday. It's like amazing, that's great. But then like you yourself are just trying to meet, like, meet that pace, but you're not taking the time to actually create that world so people can actually understand it and want to go back to it, which is why music is just so like, oh, that was far. What's the next one? And it's like I treat it like no, if I want to create a world, I need to be in that world, and I just spend that much time into it so that when people step into that world, they're kind of like, Whoa, how did you even come up with that? And they can appreciate it more because they can hear that like I have those sonics and they can feel it, but they can also feel like it's a in a modern feel. And I I always channel that in like every single project that I do. Um, and I feel like that that's what people should do is just spend time to study, spend time to understand what you're going for, and like also be okay with the fact that you're gonna have to keep trying along. Like, it's not just gonna be perfect, like you're gonna come up with a banger each day. Like, you're gonna have to keep trying to get to that pocket because that's the whole point of making music, is the challenge to create that.

SPEAKER_05 39:27

Yeah. Okay. So, would you also say like traveling has been a big inspiration for you, just seeing different cultures? Has that also helped shape your music as time has passed?

SPEAKER_03 39:36

A hundred percent. Even just going to Asia in general has inspired this project like crazy because I've always wanted to go to Japan. It's been like one of my dream, and like seeing the fashion, seeing the culture, the food, the way that people like just behave, like it just inspired me in general to bring it to the music and like bring that sonic alive. Um, and I've always been inspired by it. So I feel like um traveling is an important thing just to understand the world differently. Because I feel like when you're just here all the time, you're wherever you live, like you kind of just get to use to your environment, how people behave, how music is, and then when you go somewhere else, you can appreciate how people approach things differently or how slower-paced things are, and like how you can bring that back to the music. And I feel like that definitely inspired me a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:17

Do you collaborate a lot when you travel like with different writers from different countries or producers, or is it mainly just you still doing your own thing, but just in a different country?

SPEAKER_03 40:24

Yeah, I actually tend to like collaborate more and like make more ideas when I do travel. So I've done that a lot where I've just gone to like different places and then I meet up with the artists that I've been wanting to for a while, and like I'm touching to like Japan, touching to Korea, like I've been able to collaborate. Um, and then if I go somewhere else like LA, I collaborate. And I find that in Toronto I've collaborated, but I actually want it to be a collaboration because I feel like people like love to like have an idea and they're like, Oh, I already know what you need to make, and I already know what the the thing is, and I like do this, and it's like, oh, that's not really collab, but like, you know, being it is what it is, like whatever. And I just feel like I've traveled and I've just seen so much like hospitality and like actually community, and that's what I want here, which is why I advocate for it so much, which is like, yeah, like let's do something different. That's what that city needs. Like, we don't need to hear what's already being done. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 41:11

I agree 100%. I think in right now in 2026, it's like, what is even the sound of Toronto? Yeah, I'm already really sure what it is right now. I feel like maybe it's just a mix of so many different things.

SPEAKER_07 41:22

I'm gonna tell you something. There is a sound that people just kind of overlook, you know. I mean, it's sitting right here.

SPEAKER_03 41:27

Facts, facts it, I listen when it pops off, they're going to be in love with it. That's all I know. And I already know that it's making like its own moves and its own momentum. And I think like once this blows, like I know for certain that's gonna be like the next sound of Toronto. Because it's just like no one's doing what I'm doing, like especially in the city, like, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 41:49

She probably can do what you're doing.

SPEAKER_03 41:50

I mean shit. I'm doing it, like literally, I'm producing my own shit. I'm writing my own shit, I'm saying my own shit. Like, I'm doing it from like originality. Like, I'm not even trying to copy no one for real.

SPEAKER_07 42:01

I one thing that I've learned from you, mixing your music and seeing how you how your process of thinking is, is that you know how to do a I don't want to say minimalistic production, but you know how to don't use a lot and make it feel full. And then once you add your vocal, sometimes I remember I got some beats and I was like, I like it, but I'm like, I just couldn't imagine. Like, you know, you you send me the beat and I listen to it. I'm like, it sounds cool, but I can't imagine it. Yeah, then you lay it, lay down the vocals, and I'm like, I would never think about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then everything just kind of comes together.

SPEAKER_03 42:37

Yeah, yeah. I love space. That's the one thing like I've learned as I produced, because like I feel like my early, earlier projects, I was trying to prove my production side. So I would overcompensate. So I like I'd be like doing so much, but it's like you need to let certain spaces breathe. So then I learned as I went along, it's like actually, simplicity is so perfect because it's like you even if it is simple, if the actual foundation is hard as hell, everything can go around it. Then little parts can become ear candy and little parts can become your favorite part because you don't have to do too much, and that's just like how I learned as I got like going along. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:09

Oh, that's amazing. So for everyone listening, what do you want to share some details about what to anticipate for the next album that's coming out soon? What do you want to share?

SPEAKER_03 43:18

I got a new single coming out next month. I can't give the date yet, but it's coming soon. It's gonna be super, super fire. I do have a little collaboration on that one, it's super special. Um, I played a little bit at the listening party and people were loving it. So yeah, it was really, really good. Um, I do have a show coming up in July as well at the Mariposa Um festival, so that's gonna be fun. And then the album's coming out in like literally a couple months. So we're ready. We're literally slamming on, like going on the gas, going ready. We're ready to go.

SPEAKER_05 43:46

Is everything done for mixing mastering everything? It's all wrapped up after we get a revision. You got to figure out. Let me ask this actually, what is the average number of revisions you guys have?

SPEAKER_03 43:56

Oh my god, it's it's not the same every single time. I feel like this one was bad.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Because like this one, I would wake up and I tell Doc it's perfect and sound so good. And then by the end of the day, I'm like, Doc, actually, can you like saying? And I'm like, it just kept happening this time. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 44:13

Like, I just wasn't hearing what I wanted to hear. Like, I feel like my ears are getting tired too. So there are certain points that I was like, am I actually hearing what I'm hearing? I'm like, I don't know, Doc, you listen to it. Like, I might be tripping. And sometimes I would be tripping. But then sometimes he'd be like, actually, it was a good call that we did this. So like it went, it was like kind of like back and forth, but it we reached it finally.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

It's not like that every single album. Like, I feel like this one was really the most like back and forth.

SPEAKER_07 44:37

But I think it's like we both lived with it. Like, I I think I've lived with this project as much as you do. Because I'm working on it all day. Then I go home and I listen to it again. I wake up, I'm at the gym, I listen to it again, I walk here, I listen to it because I want to get it perfect. But then it's like when you listen to something over and over and over again, you don't even know if you listen to the right thing anymore. It's like I would listen, I'm like, is it good? There's it's like, is it knocking enough? Yeah. Is it not? Like, are the vocals loud enough? Like, there's so many questions. And even uh with the um which project? Is it a project? No, same project same project. Same one. Um I can I can talk about the the name of the so I like it, right? Yeah, yeah. The the rumble. Yeah, yeah. Like rumble yo, I'm not gonna lie. I had nightmares about because he was like, more rumble, more rumble, more rumble. And then it's like we got to the point where it's like, even for me right now, right? When I listen to it, I'm like, yo, isn't it distorting? Am I tripping? Like more rumble on the low end? Yeah, but we added uh, well, Callie had like a specific sample underneath the base. Okay, I see. So there's like uh it was like uh, you know when the when the bass in the car hits and there's like a chart sound to it? We actually added like a rumble from the car underneath the the base. Okay, okay. You know, so every time I hear it, I'm like, yo, is it disturbing? But then it's like, I know it's rumble, but I'm like, I have to, it's almost like I have to think about it like that specific thing is not supposed to be like uh it's almost like a sound design. It needs to sound like it's coming from the trunk of the car. You know, so it's like I have to like, it took me like two weeks. The fuck was like, you know what? Okay, I'll let him go. I'll just let it be, you know?

SPEAKER_03 46:24

No, because at first I was telling him, because I actually originally didn't even have the rattle sound effect in it. Right. I just had the drums and the bass, and then I was like, I don't know, like I'm envisioning it sounding even like more like bottom, like it has to have more bottom. So I found like this car rattle, and then I gave it to him. I'm like, we need to have it. At first I was like, put it on every drum, but he's like, no, it needs to have spaces, it's gonna be too much like rattles on the whole track. We found that balance, it sounded really good, and then I thought it was fun.

SPEAKER_01 46:51

And then once we had the the feature come on, I like no, there needs to even be even more rattle. So then I was like, you gotta get more bottom fish, not at all.

SPEAKER_08 46:59

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 47:03

But it sounds so good because like I've had car tests and it sounds good, and I you know at the party, it was sounding so good. So I was like, okay, like it was worth, you know what I mean? Well, back and forth with it.

SPEAKER_05 47:14

Right. Is this the song that's coming out next? Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. I'll be able to look up kind of I'm gonna see.

SPEAKER_07 47:23

Sure. Um, I I think I have one question for you. Because most of the questions he was asking, I'll be shame.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

Okay, let me answer that question.

SPEAKER_07 47:32

Um so for you as an artist, you know, you kind of answered a little bit of it, but you know, being in the city, being in Toronto, doing the music that you're doing, what what are the biggest challenges that you face as an independent artist living specifically in Toronto? Because Toronto is a very specific city, how it operates. You know, I feel like you know how they always say like Toronto doesn't support their own artists, blah, blah, blah, and all that stuff. I don't know. It's like I I kind of I'm like somewhere in the middle about it because I'm like, I've seen support, but I also understand why people kind of look away. Because even if you think about it, any artist that comes to Toronto sells on shows.

SPEAKER_03 48:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 48:16

Which is crazy. Yeah. But then you have, you know, artists in the city that they can't feel the venue, even smaller venues, right? So it's like, I don't know whether is the people definitely are here to enjoy the art, enjoy the the music, right? But anyway, as that being said, like what are the biggest challenges that you find just being in the city?

SPEAKER_03 48:37

I just feel like the overall challenges that I have witnessed and I feel like that a lot of artists can attest to is like, yeah, what you're addressing, it's just like the overall like support and funding for being an independent artist. Because I think overall, like you can get your audience out here and it can build, but I mean, overall, I think everyone knows being in the city, like you're just gonna have to blow somewhere else before you really build here. But my strategy has always been like, even if I do build somewhere else, I'm always gonna show my city love. So by the time I blow up, like there won't be no question why people are supportive than here because I'm always giving back love first. Um, and so like I feel like overall I want that more for all of us as artists. Uh, I know that you know the funding has been in a little bit of a crisis like mode recently with things going on um in terms of like factor and everything like that, and like other things happening, which sucks because that was like a big support for the city. Um, but I think overall there needs to be a little bit more, like a little bit more of like community things, a little bit more in terms of terms of our opportunities that can be given to artists. I think like we have things like this where it's like the World Cup, where it's like you can see things that are happening for artists, but honestly, they're being given to people who are flying out here more than us. And I feel like that's where we need to have it, where it's like give back to your community so we can make money back into the city, so it's like we can keep being able to give opportunities like that. Um and that's what I'd like to see more because like we have so much talent here, but I feel like it's overlooked a lot. Um, I feel like if we were to fund what is actually here, then a lot more artists would feel like they would be supported. You know what I mean? And I feel like that would need to be done overall. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. But I think I think overall for me, like as an artist, like even just touching on the independent side, um, like just being able to do this like long term and like being able to be an artist, like you really have to know how much you're gonna put into it because you're spending money all the time, you're reinvesting into yourself, uh, you're having to make connections and looking for people who are genuinely trying to build with you. And that's like a fishing to see. Like, you really can't find everyone that's really gonna align with you and want to stick with you from the ground up. So I find like that was a challenge in the beginning of just actually finding people who genuinely wanted to build. And that's why I was like so grateful to find my team, find Dot, find people who are like-minded, who got my sound. Because when you're making something different, you really have to find people who are different. Yes, like you know what I mean? You can't just find like other people who are like, oh, okay, sure, like I guess this is what you're doing. You really have to find those people who are actively like actually pushing out the box themselves. And like that's why I've connected with Dot, why I've connected with so many other people, because it's like they actually align with what I'm trying to do. And when you're doing something different, it takes a little bit longer because you have to keep sustaining that and proving people why it's important that you do it. Um, which is why I'm okay with the long run, because I I know that when I was watching Missy and I'm watching Tim like work together and they're doing something different, like they they knew something was special and they kept honing in on it, and they they became became that outlet of like difference, which is now what now people are trying to do, but they're just still trying to do something that's already done, which is why you gotta be out of the box. Right. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 51:38

Right, yeah. And I think you mentioned a good point, and you and you mentioned it before earlier as well. It's like you need to have that mentality where it's like this could take five years, it could take eight years, it could take ten years, because I think so many people get caught up in like, no, I need to make it now, this needs to happen now, like I need everything to happen for me right now, and then they get frustrated after only like a year or two years, and then they just give up. Yeah, but in reality, like who really makes it overnight? It's 0.001% of people, right?

SPEAKER_07 52:04

I I feel like in this game, it's like this game is only for the strong ones. That's exactly what it's like. It's it's a marathon, you know. It's a both stabbing the op you're not gonna do that, you know, for the furry three point two, you know what I mean? I I I definitely think um music is I I think music is not for everybody. Yeah, yes, but everybody wants to do it because a lot of people look into the lifestyle more than they look into the actual what takes for the year-o.

SPEAKER_03 52:33

Yeah, they look at the stardom more, they look at like what's the fruits of it rather than like actually watering and planting it. Like they don't look at that aspect, and I think that's what hits people harder because it's like, oh, this looks good on the surface front. I have the chains, I have the cars. It's like, yeah, I mean, most of these people are renting that shit, but like I'm just like, let's be for real. Like, let you you need to get into that life. It takes a lot of time to even get there. And a lot of people just get surprised and don't really realize how long it really takes.

SPEAKER_07 53:01

Like, it takes a long time just to become master of what you do. Yeah. To like be good with, you know, production, engineering, writing lyrics, whatever, whatever you do, like it takes time. Yeah. You know, you can have a you can have a good start, you can be in a good place, but you can't be in the same place over and over and over again because then you're not gonna grow.

SPEAKER_03 53:21

Oh my god, super random job. But like, I feel like what how do you feel it is how important it is for an artist in general to know about the terminology, because we talked about this terminology or how to like explain what they want from a mix or coming into a studio and being able to explain that.

SPEAKER_07 53:39

Look, I would say like this one thing that is good about that is that AI has never taken our job. Because there's no way an artist is gonna be able to explain to an AI what they want to hear.

SPEAKER_05 53:52

It's true. You know what I mean? It's true, especially if you explain it like colors, energy.

SPEAKER_07 53:56

Gapes, like give me uh make me sound like Bruno Mark. But that was like, oh no, I hear I have something else in my head. I want this, that, this. And all of a sudden, it's like, you know, and you know how AI is, just like he was changing stuff and all that stuff. But uh to answer your question, I think it's important to a certain extent. I think working with an engineer that understands your emotion is very important because you know, sometimes people are like they're using the same terminology. They can say, I want more distortion, even they don't know what distortion means, you know? So you add in the distortion, it's like, no, no, this is not what I want. I want I want this. And then they give you an example. Like, play uh play this track on Spotify and you hear something, and you're like, but this is not distortion, this is like phaser or something like that. So there's a lot of people that I guess use certain words because those are the only words that they know. I think it's important to at least have a base understanding. You don't have to know everything about equalize compression and all that stuff, but like knowing how to explain yourself to somebody that is working with you is very important. Yeah, I mean, because that's the only way how you're gonna get something that both of you are gonna be happy with.

SPEAKER_05 55:07

I agree. Okay, I mean, you whenever people can't explain something, there's always a classic, oh, can you make it sound underwater?

SPEAKER_07 55:16

And we all know what that means. But then that is a what the meaning is like you know, they're not gonna say filter because they might not know the terminology for that. But when they say underwater, at least you know right away. Yeah I know what you want, right? Yeah. Look, I had the uh one of my guys, they sent me uh they sent me notes and they said what was the word? They said that the reverb sounded oh man, what was the word? I'm trying to remember the word. It's like man, I I I'm not gonna lie, I read it and I had no idea what that meant. Because it was like, I'm like, how do you even use that word in the aspect of the audio? Like these days, I was like, I did not understand what the hell they weren't trying to say. I gotta I'm gonna tell you guys, I gotta check my mixture. But you know, sometimes people are using certain words that only they understand what it really means. Yes, you know, and then it's like me as Ninja, I have to decode what he went.

SPEAKER_03 56:14

Was it like an actual real word?

SPEAKER_07 56:15

And I just made up their own. It was a real word, but I was like, I just did not understand how it applies to the audio.

SPEAKER_05 56:24

Trust me, I've received some crazy revisions. I remember one time this guy sent me a paragraph, he was like, I want you to make it sound like my voice is traveling through a dark hole while I'm falling through the sky. As if I'm like tripping on LSD or something. I'm like, bro, what is what what do you mean?

SPEAKER_07 56:43

I I think in those types of cases, it's like just bear reading. So you have to use your imagination, yeah, how to build it to make it sound like that what she wants.

SPEAKER_01 56:55

I'd give you a promise because that would have left me like confused. I mean, like, you wanna go through a black hole and sound like you're on LSD? Like, what did that mean?

SPEAKER_07 57:05

I mean, I I think the best way to do it is like you gotta pop some LSD. You gotta you gotta try yourself. I feel like you need I would take it, I would take it for the game, you know, charge this in the game, charge it's the LSD and figure out, okay, no, I've been to the trip of like, hey, I think this was tempted, yeah.

unknown 57:28

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_07 57:29

I think uh yeah, it is important for sure, but like as long as uh they can at least understand an emotion that they're trying to portray, I think that's like the most important thing. Everything else is like because the tools aren't gonna be the same, right? It's like you can have a hundred different EQs, but an EQ is gonna be doing this EQ thing, right? Compressor is gonna be doing compressor thing. Like realistically, how many tools do we have that do completely different things? Yeah, definitely. Right? It's like you can have a phaser, you can have another phaser that sounds different, but it's still a phaser. You know, same thing with your chorus, same thing with everything else, right? So it's like you just gotta kind of find the tools and let it rip.

SPEAKER_03 58:09

I think I think my aspect to it is like exactly what Dot is saying, but I also find it because like I took the time to like learn a little bit about it and like learn about mixing and then learn about the terminology, was like I find for artists it's super important because I find that a lot of times, at least when I'm talking to artists, like they're telling me, like, oh, like, you know, I find when I'm in sessions kind of hard for me to find like the right mix engineer because it's like they're not finding my sound and stuff like that. And I'm like, well, are you like conveying what you actually want to them or like are you guys being able to communicate what's the desired like um outlook that you're looking for? And I think like I compare it like to a mechanic. It's like you go to the mechanic and they're telling you something, and like you're like, oh okay, sure, I guess like that's what it should be. And it's like, like, no, actually, you should be able to understand what your car like needs or what's the damage, and like understand what is going on so that if somebody's telling you something, you could be like, actually, no, that's not what I'm looking for. I actually want this and be able to be able to communicate that. And that's why I find it important because it's the same with engineering, is like you need to be able to talk to your engineer and be like, oh, like I love what you're doing, but like maybe a little bit more bottom here, and like actually in this spot, I realize my vocals feel a little bit flat. Like, can we do something to like get a little bit more clear? It's like little things like that. Like, you don't gotta be like you don't have to be on the board and know everything would do, but it's just the little things to convey that because I feel like I hear so many times it didn't feel right.

SPEAKER_06 59:32

Yeah, it's like what does that mean? What does that mean?

SPEAKER_07 59:35

No, it doesn't feel right.

SPEAKER_01 59:38

You can't explain, like, just we'll sit there and be like, I don't know. Like, we gotta try again.

SPEAKER_03 59:42

Try one again. Yeah, we've already tried again. So like, yeah, like it just it helps the process. You don't have to spend as much money in the studio where you're having hours and hours like working through this. And then also both of you are having more fun because you don't have to keep going back and forth, it's easier that way.

SPEAKER_07 59:57

I I think what you said, just to like add to it, I think once you have a great performance and there's no issues with your vocal, I don't think there's gonna be many issues to deal with. Yeah, yeah. Because a lot of times people are not happy because it doesn't sound the way how they put it inside. It's like you didn't do it right. You didn't hit the right super hot, sounds off key, yeah. Yeah, you know, so many times I feel like it's the performance on the you know, on the artist side that is like lacking. And then it's like you can have all the tools in the world, but you're never gonna compensate for something that is lacking in the first place.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:31

100%.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:32

Mine, I look, I definitely heard guys that sound terrible without auto-tune, and then once you slap auto tune, all of a sudden it's like the vocal is transformed to something works. And the crazy thing is like I've worked with the artists that when you hear it without auto tune, you wouldn't even be able to tell that it's but the thing is that they learn how to use it as a tool, right? But the artune is also a tool instrument. Yeah, yeah. But it's like as soon as you bypass it, you can't believe how big of a difference that is.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:59

You're like, oh damn, let me put it back for a five reason.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:03

It's crazy. Remember that uh, I don't know if you guys saw that video, but it was um it was a video of Lil Skies in the studio, and his engineer was playing back a song, but he forgot to put back the auto tune. It was like a live stream or something. Oh, yeah. And and all you hear is those guys like it was so amazing, bro. My god, it was so bad. Audit was saving for real.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:25

It is he's saving it for real. I mean, it's look, I I think it's uh it's a great tool. I use it all the time, but yeah, I I I wish people learned how to perform without it, and then use it instead of using it as a crutch, you just use it as a final polish. Just to give you that extra two, three percent instead of trying to like give you the 90% of your performance with an audit tune. For shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:52

Because it's for me, it's just like as an artist, I really, really like really credit myself for being able to go on stage, sing, and people keep giving me feedback that I sound exactly like the records. That is amazing to me. And I feel like I've been to a couple shows where I'm like expecting the same thing from my artist where I'm like, oh, this song sounds amazing. And I go there and I'm like, oh my god, like this will sound nothing like it. Like, I'm not expecting to sound exact, but like a damn, like I listen near, like you know what I mean? Or like can't do the performance without autotune, and that's a thing where it's like, well, you know, what about things breaking down? Some things don't work, and it's like you don't want it, like you said, you don't want to be a crutch. You know what I mean? So just having that tool and being able to work on that, like take vocal vocalists. I always pride them, like, do that and like actually work on the skills that you have and make them stronger.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:38

What do you think? I know we kind of go on, but I I have I have a question. What do you think about you heard that song? I don't I don't know if it's AI, but I assume it's AI. You guys heard the uh uh Rubbers song by uh uh Felix Flexon. How does it go? You guys never heard the songs at a church wear? No, it's like I'm I'm gonna play it after. Okay, never mind. But it's like it blew up, like it's blown up. I'm not gonna lie, the song is kind of fire. But everybody says that it's an AI song. He claims not AI, even though ever all the songs that he was doing before didn't do not sound the way how that one song sounds. Even his voice does not sound like it, but he's claiming that it's it's not AI. But what I what what I want to ask is what do you think, especially right now? I feel like we are entering the era where people are using AI to do music and then just put their face behind the music that was created by Shuno or any other AI stuff. How do you how do you feel about it?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:38

I personally think that's whack. Like, you already can't say for real, and then you're gonna lie and then be like, oh, this is this is for me for real, are they gonna lie again with AI? Like, damn.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:48

Like, I just feel like again, I people want to do whatever they want to do with AI. I personally don't think it should be touching music, but like if you're going to do use it, don't be lying. Like what I mean, like just don't be lying.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:58

Like, it come on. Like, you already taking the credit from an AI that you doing the record, like we're just gonna like whacker, whacker. It's really sad.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:08

Do you feel like that devalues the actual music? The music and the the work behind it. Because I feel like you know, an AI just prompted bem, click it, generate 30 seconds. You have a whole ready song right there. But it's like, you know, look to create a record, it takes a lot of hours, like hours and hours. Like, how long does it take you to like produce, write, and then record it, then I gotta mix it, then we gotta sit together, then we gotta master it. So it's like it's a whole process that takes like I would say maybe like hundred hours per song. If you're gonna be able to do it, that's the beauty of it. You know, it I think it's beautiful. Yeah, that's why I think it's beautiful, right? But it's like with modern things, it's almost like anybody can just type whatever they want to type and just generate.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:54

Yeah, it's absolutely insane. Like, I think that's the whole process of art that I love is being able to take all those hours that we kept going back and forth, that I made changes, that I want to change the lyrics, that I want to do certain things. And it's like it's a process that you remember that is engraved into the song to show how many, like, how much your soul was connected into making something like that, versus like, okay, you put something in the computer and you told it to do that, and now it's just there. And it's like, okay, well, you're left with that. Now you want to make more, you just keep typing up more and making the songs like you don't have no story, no connection to it. You just told the computer to do something, and boom, here it is. Yeah, I mean, and that there's no feeling to that at all.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:30

Yeah, yeah, okay, sure. I agree. 100%.

unknown 1:05:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:33

Yeah, I think it's a good point to wrap it up. It's a over hour mark. Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much, Todd. It's an over the fan. It worked, the fan work. It's all that matter. But uh, thank you for joining us today. Thank you. Sharisha Suji's time. Thank you guys for having me. Or Sithos. And as always, guys, thank you for watching. And stay tuned for more episodes.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:55

You guys, you guys gotta check out Cali's Way. 100%. We're gonna put her answer right here. Add Cali's Wade. Yes. Spotify everything. We're gonna put everything. Sweet, sweet, sweet. Take care of you. Thank you guys. Peace out. Peace.