UNCUT: Cum And Cry With Us

Alright, dolls. This ep is just your two hosts with the most love and laughs to give. 

In this episode we discuss our own mental health and how this influences our sex lives. We also talk facts (obviously) -  giving you the science behind mental health and it's impact on sexual function, how medications can play a role, and what you can do about it.  Cum and cry with us!

Find us here!

Instagram: @fgsx_pod

Tiktok: @fgsx_pod

Email: fgsx.pod@gmail.com

Recommendations!

Perceived: A (lived experience) Mental Health and Neurodivergence https://open.spotify.com/show/5J7YZLnJ6f4C9xGpTUFs8s?si=cNzkmJ3BRxuxqqI9oCGUKg&nd=1&dlsi=896e98ea82e5439f

Chat with Dr Shyamini Episode 4!

The Imperfects Podcast: Dr Emily - Joy Decision https://open.spotify.com/episode/6dQLVMfoa59HSGsD246HdD?si=nwQaEi94TzSFEwW8_xM1eg&nd=1&dlsi=ba58e3abc6e845a2

Resources here!

Associations between sexual health and well-being: a systematic review: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11601183/

Prism Health: The Connection Between Sexual Health and Mental Health https://www.prismhealth.com.au/post/the-connection-between-mental-health-and-sexual-well-being

Healthy Male Au: How Your Mental Health Affects Your Sex Life https://healthymale.org.au/health-article/sex-mental-health-anxiety-stress-depression

Emily Nagoski, Ph.D.: Come As You Are Worksheets https://www.emilynagoski.com/come-as-you-are-worksheets

We are your co-hosts, Dr Shyamini and Nurse Ellie, and this, is For Goodness Sex xx

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hello, my name is Shamini, and I am a co-host of the podcast for goodness sakes. I am a Fijian Indian woman of immigrant parents and am proud to live, work, and play on watering in our country. This podcast acknowledges the past, present, and future traditional custodians of a stolen country and the impact this has had on the health and well-being of our Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander brothers and sisters.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Now, whilst we are healthcare professionals, this episode is for informational purposes only, and it does not replace personalized health care advice. Your health is unique to you. If you have healthcare concerns, please seek out your local health professional. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

Yeah, your brain is with you for as long as it can be. So treat it well and start it now. Start now.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

And this is for goodness sex.

unknown 1:15

Sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

I did an echo one time. Echo. Did you like it? I loved it. Thank you. That was so good. How are you? I am good. I am good. Yeah, truly I am. Okay. I feel like sometimes I shouldn't be. And I only I'm very I'm I'm busy, you know, this, you're you're you're busy, you're not busier, but you know, um, everything's go, go, go, and there's lots going on, there's lots of bowls in the air. But it's and I guess I'm having this this thought where I'm like, I need things things need to slow down or something's gonna happen, but I just keep waking up. I it's working. It's funny you say that.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

I kind of feel the same way. Okay. Yeah, it's funny you yeah, it's almost like um the the things the last sort of 12 to 24 months have been so difficult and like kind of unsettled, and it's all kind of falling into place, and so even though my life is like quite chaotic and quite busy, it's almost like it it just is. And I just wake up and I kick going, and there's no like it's almost like I don't have this impending sense of doom that something bad is gonna happen. Okay, love that. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 2:31

It does, it does. Either so we're adapting, or either we're gonna crash and burn at some point. Maybe both, I don't know. Yeah, I just gotta write it though. I think well, I think that's all we can do. Right. I think in like in terms of like stoicism, in terms of flop philosophy, when I find myself getting stressed or overwhelmed, you know, I just I just strip it right back and I also just realise that I mean for me anyway, a lot of the things I stress about, you know, are not a huge deal. Yeah. And I'm able to just zoom out and be like, look at what's going on in the world or look at you know, some people's lives, and it's all manageable and it's all it's all fine. Yeah. So and there's beauty everywhere. So I don't know. I'm having a real I'm loving life at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Oh, I'm so happy. Proud of you. Thank you. Proud of you. What great realizations. Yeah, it's nice. It's nice. Oh good.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

And yeah, you've had a huge week, month, year, life.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

Yeah, just yeah, lots been happening. So I finally have um I'm I'm finally a property owner. Which is huge. Um it's been a long time coming. It has. Um, yeah, and I like I'm sure our listeners know, but maybe those who don't, I've recently gone through a separation, a marriage separation, um, sort of started all early last year. Um, but in the lead up to it, there was certainly a lot of stress and the decision didn't come lightly. So it's probably this big build-up. And then I think the way that my life unfolded after that, in the midst of doing my GP fellowship exams, um, it just I kind of was in this headspace of like allowing myself to grieve what was happening and the possibility of the future that I would have had and and and what my life looked like and how it was changing. And I just thought it was like literally never gonna end. Like when you're in that moment, you're like, I'm never gonna feel better. This is just this long, drawn-out process. Um, and I I certainly did the things and I certainly surrounded myself with the right people. Um, but then I feel like things just have happened at the right time, and I don't know if that's because I've been making active steps to make it happen, but everything just is falling into place in ways that I perhaps didn't anticipate. Um and so yeah, now I've finally been able to um move into my own place, have my dog with me, yeah, and just feeling secure in in my life, and I don't feel like I have this overwhelming um sense of despair because it's kind of happened. But it's also weird because I was like in that moment, I was like, this is fucking never gonna end. And then suddenly you wake up and you're like, oh who am I without the dismissal?

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

Yeah, and I'm like, I my life has been so unsteady for so long. I'm just expecting something to happen, but I don't think it is. I don't think it is either. And if it does, I think I'm gonna be okay. Well, that's the thing, like that's what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

First of all, proud of you and congrats, that's friggin' awesome. Yeah, so great. So good. Because I know like you've been hanging out with this for a long time, and I'm just so stoked it all came together. Thank you. So stoked. But yeah, what I was gonna say before is like, yes, you're used to these high levels of stress because obviously, as you were saying, you went through this separation during the biggest exams of your life, like which is so stressful, and like you're experiencing stress now, but you have control over the outcome, and you kind of you know, is that the difference?

SPEAKER_02 6:06

Yeah, probably. I think like, and you know, I reflected a lot on this. You know, I'm very, very privileged to be a GP. I'm very lucky to have had a lot of my most healing conversations have been with my patients, right? And I've learned so many things from them, and I feel truly blessed that during this process I've been able to not necessarily disclose but find relatable situations or kind of admire strength through adversity and think, oh gosh, it's it's actually gonna be okay. But I think a large part of being a GP is is managing uncertainty. So it's almost like I was practiced at it clinically and now I was just trying to apply the same principles of managing uncertainty in my own my own personal life, right? I love that general practice. Yeah. I love general practice, yeah. So I think that's cool. Yeah, it's been a pretty transformative time, and I certainly feel much better. And I I I feel really proud of myself to to where I am at the moment. And I I kind of feel I was saying this to a friend of mine the other day. I was like, I feel a bit like I'm floating, like you know, just like you're just kind of like and I remember my best friend was like, this is normal. And I was like, what do you mean? She's like, how you're feeling now is normal, your nervous system is regulated. And I was like, wow. She's like, you've just been your nervous system has been so push and pull for so long that finally you're like in this this regulated state and your body's just like, what the hell?

SPEAKER_00 7:40

That's right. But you're probably just like like it is just you like walking on the ground. Yeah, but it you feel floating because your baseline is so heightened. Yeah, and that's so that's so true.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's a it's a interesting time, and it's but it's a good time. Yeah, that's a good time.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

And I see it in you, you know, like I see it in you, like the floatiness. And it's so yeah, it's so nice to say it's so weird, like on reflecting.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

I don't think I've ever been busier, but I don't think I've ever been more settled. Like I'm so busy in my life, in my work and extracurricular, my friends and everything, but I feel so at ease.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

And that's when you know you're on the right path.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

What a gift of getting goosebumps. Oh, true. It is because it's so nice. I think there's like and maybe that's what I'm experiencing as well, is like there's two levels too busy, you know, there's and obviously everything comes in swings and roundabouts. You know, there's some days where I do I am stressed and overwhelmed, you know, I'm not like bursting at the seams with joy all the time, but it's like most of the time, most of the time, which is so nice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

I think it's a reflection of your mental health when you can focus largely on the positive things. Yeah. I certainly think clinically, you know, people well, I mean we're very much going on a tangent here, but we love to do it. But you know, uh one of my favourite um podcast episodes from The Imperfects was um Love the Imperium. Um like uh it was called the Joy Decision, maybe, or something something like that. Yeah, or um oh I can't remember the name of the episode, but obviously Dr. Emily, the the psychologist was on it. Psychologist! Yeah, psychologist. Um and she basically talked about like you know, we will go through ebbs and flows in our life, but it's how we access joy in those days. And I I've used this a lot in clinical practice that like people who come in very melancholic and quite low or quite anxious try and change the narrative to say, you know, can you access moments of joy in your day today rather than have this huge expectation of yourself to just be happy all of the time? And I really liked that episode because I think it's similar, right? Like you're like most of the time I'm seeking joy and I'm not focusing on the the negative parts, and but when you're in the depths of depression, um it's hard to to have that insight, right? But when you can shift the narrative a little bit and encourage someone to access moments, it kind of lifts that like overwhelming heaviness that they might be feeling.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Yes, absolutely. Like I've literally been having a similar conversation. Oh, cool, yeah. And it's it's funny because it links to you talking about a G being a GP as well, and I link it to being a nurse and um, yeah, being in the healthcare setting. Um, what that's taught me, I guess, like when I worked in the hospital with people with chronic illness and people so unwell, people in lots of pain, um, it kind of like A, it puts things in perspective, yeah, but and B, it also like prepares you for life. Not in like a not in a way that I was like, oh my god, one day something's gonna happen to me or something's gonna happen to my loved one. It's just that I knew that part of life is that people suffer, you know, and people get sick. So that was always like that that's probably gonna happen at some point, you know. Not yeah, I'm not manifesting it, but um, when I you know, if it happens, it happens and I'll manage, right?

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Yeah, and it's like a necessary reality check that at any moment life is fragile and things can change. And I certainly think that that's yeah, a a a big l again, I keep saying this life ebb and flows, it's not linear. Um and I also think I don't know if you found this, but I certainly think that sometimes when I see patients or hear their stories, I feel less alone.

unknown 11:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:41

In that, in that it's like, okay, internally I'm thinking, wow, I kind of went through something really similar, and thinking, okay, I can kind of And I remember in a previous episode you said um you said something like coming down to the level of the patient and and being more transparent and open and relatable is is a really important part of the therapeutic relationship. And I think in those moments I just certainly do settle into the like reality of their existence and my existence and how we're both just people like navigating life. Absolutely. And it it's just like a nice, I think that's the healing part. Yeah. Is it like I'm actually surrounded by all these people that are going through really similar experiences, you know, and that's really quite healing.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Absolutely, and like I love that you said before that like some of your most healing conversations have been with with patients, and I've definitely had healing conversations with patients like that too, and healing conversations with you about that. But yeah, definitely my community, we have that a lot. This is you know, we talk about this a lot. I've I haven't it as long as I've been in the queer community, you know, from from what 18 or whatever, um these con we've had these conversations, and I've I haven't felt alone in in that space, which is so I'm so like thankful for. Yeah, but yeah, like when I would see these these sick people in hospital and like the tea trolley would come around, right? And I'd be like, okay, so like this is probably like one of the best parts of their day, right? Their joy is in this like instant coffee or tea that's on this tea trolley, right? And I cheese and crackers. Literally. And I was like, oh, when I think about like elderly people, it's not always the case where I used to work for Silver Chain and visit elderly people, you know, and like you would find joy in the simplest of things, right? And it's it I say it's easy to do, like I know that it's also hard, especially for people that struggle with depression. And I have this conversation with my friendship group a lot. Like, is joy accessible to everyone? You know, and it's so hard, it's so hard. And I I know that I am privileged and lucky, like that I have always well, I've also worked really hard from a young age on on gratitude and seeking joy. Yeah, but my general predisposition, I think, was also just um a happy guy. Um I struggled with my anxieties, but I haven't struggled so much with depression. Um so I acknowledge that as well. But um, yeah, it it is um like a practice. Yeah, and I think just joy.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

Yeah, and what I guess it's very existential, but what is joy, you know? And I think in that episode, um she said that because she's always good on the data. Um, is this Emily? Yeah, yes, this is Dr. Emily. Psychologist Is anybody here a doctor? Um she said that apparently the quickest way to access joy is music. Wow. Yeah. So I really took that on board because um being like I guess an artistic musical person myself, I actually found I find stages of my life, it's really weird, when I know that I'm low or when I look at them, I'm actually not consuming music. So when I look at what like is going on, I've stopped listening to music or I've been just that usually bring me joy. Yeah, do you mean bring me joy? And then I think, oh, okay, I'm not actually doing that. And then I'll, I don't know, sing Whitney Houston in the car, and then I feel magical, right? Or like, you know what I mean? Like, you know, singing is a way to access joy, and it doesn't have to be in these big formal capacities, but I think trying to remember what brings you joy is highly individualistic, and I think just helping people remind themselves of what that is. Sometimes in my consults, I'll say, What just think about something you really like to do, or what what's been something that you've really enjoyed? And they might say, Oh, painting, and then I said, Great, let's get some paint by numbers at minimum and start there, you know. So I think that's so true.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Yeah, yeah, like music duh. And and it's so funny because when you said that like my immediate thought was the sky, like what brings me joy is the sky. So when I like wake up and I look at the sky or at night time, I look when I look at the clouds, or I look at the sun, or I look at the moon, or look at the stars, it brings me joy. Um, but then when yeah, the more you talk about music, I once went through a phase of do you know um the song Gold by um Spander Ballet? You are gold, gold, always believing. You're gonna be able to do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you're indestructible. Yeah, that's a good one. That's a good one. I went through a phase of listening to that every single morning when I woke up. Stunning. Life-changing. Yeah. Try it at home, listen to that every morning, and try not to be G'd up for whatever you're gonna do.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Okay, wow.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

I love that. What comes to your mind when you think what brings you joy?

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Yeah, I was just reflecting that as you were saying. Um, I certainly am a much more sensory person and highly like emotional. It's gonna sound really quite vulnerable, but I sometimes have overwhelming moments of love and joy when I'm just sitting with my friends. Oh yeah. I know it's weird, but like I'll just be well, it's just like I'll everyone's just chatting and like having dinner, and then I'll just be like overcome with this, like, really, but there was nothing triggering the conversation. It was just like this overwhelming sense of joy. I really like that, so I certainly do access friends a lot. Um one of my favourite feelings in the world is actually standing by a water's edge with a warm breeze. I can't access that all the time, but that is certainly the most um joyful physical experience for me, is just water's edge and a warm breeze. There's something there's something really freeing about that.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

That is a good one. I was I was gonna follow up sky with ocean. Yeah, yeah, good stuff.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Other things that bring me joy is like um just little things like um watching a a parent and their child just walk down the street or like riding a two-person bike or something, or I saw a guy today like doing training with his dog in the park, and I was like, these are just nice, really little activities that I think people are just living really nice, simple lives around me, but also dealing with all these really complex issues. I find joy in those, just observing those things as well. I think it's really endearing, or like um even just seeing someone stop and like um give someone directions. I was like, just anyway. Yeah, anything that like restores my faith in kindness, anything that restores my faith in humanity, it's like, oh, this is so nice.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Yeah, I totally agree, and it's like holding these two things right, where like because day to day I can experience so much joy all over the place, but then also knowing that there's so much suffering, holding those two things at once is the is the key. Absolutely because we can't forget about the suffering, we can't forget about the joy. No, I'm gonna call it joffering. Joffering. I got a fish. Welcome to Ellie's Joffering. It would be like joust, like jousty, but like also crying. Yeah, yeah, wow. Anyway, yeah, um okay, well, cool. I feel like this was perfect because we started off season two very strong with some brilliant guests, really brilliant guests, and like really important information um to do with sexual health and and everything, but we didn't really get a chance to like stop and check in. No, we really didn't. Yeah, yeah. It's nice that we can do that.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Yeah, I did say in the first episode I hadn't seen Ellie for like two seconds and then it was two seconds too long. Two seconds too long, and then we had to like get right into the episode. So exactly. We needed to come and I'm sure you all wanted to know how we were doing. Yeah, absolutely. Not that not that all of our friends wouldn't already know, since I who would know and knew I would love to chat about my feelings all of the time.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Who else out there wants to know that I'm bursting with joy?

unknown 19:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Last night I was cooking a lentil pie. I had a lentil pie. Yes. So when you move into a new place, guess who's knocking with a steaming pie in your hands? Yeah, yeah. So making lentil pie at 8 p.m. Um because my housemates um cook for me every night and they meal prep for me every day. Okay, wow. I know. Him here's me saying if you're listening. We just have our pre-made meals every night because we're so busy we can't cook. And honestly, that's fine. If I that if I ever lived alone, that would be my life. Oh, yeah. And I talk about how this is I talk about how busy I am. Yeah. And then I think I don't even prepare my own food when eating amazing. This is why I can't have kids. Anyway. 10 out of 10. I wanted to do something for them and made a pie. Whatever. As I'm listening to the pie. Oh my god. What did the pie say to you? He whispered sweet nothing. Don't eat me, Ellie. Shit. Yeah. I listened to the podcast episode that you did recently for your cousin. Tell us about it.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

So um my cousin's daughter, actually, so um, she's like my niece, I suppose, because in our in our culture, cousins are brothers and sisters. Um, she had a lived experience with psychosis and was diagnosed with schizophrenia. And um, and her and her fiance did a really brave thing and started a podcast to um, I guess, open up the conversation, destigmatize the condition, um, and just I guess maybe part of their healing journey. Um I couldn't be I haven't met her fiance yet, but I couldn't be more proud of either of them. Like it was just I you know, it's hard enough being vulnerable to do this and put it out in the open, let alone having these highly stigmatizing experiences. I think it's truly wonderful. Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Like it's hard enough doing this around sexual. Health, which you know is stigmatized in its own way, but then mental health feels like another and obviously they're tired, but it's a whole nother layer.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

Oh, totally. Yeah, and they they just asked me to to come on and and talk about mental health in general and my clinical experience. They also asked me to make some commentary on neurodivergence as well. Um and also a bit about how sexual health is impacted by mental health. So it was a really nice conversation. I actually really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

It was such a nice conversation. Yeah, truly. I I loved listening to it, and as always, oh you're so good to listen to as the interviewee and the interviewer. Like it was, it was awesome, yeah. I I loved it. Um so yeah, I as you said, like I also thought it was so brave, and like also that's so awesome that like what a way to heal, right? Like in them doing this podcast. It's not just a conversation um that you're having with each other, but like it's for everyone. I just think and I had this thought before. So one more sidebar. No, no, no, side button. One more sidebar. Talking to you about things in this manner is so important and so different to when talking out socially, um, in the sense that even though this is how we should talk out socially, but we we have to pause and have to listen and we have to reflect before answering. Like often sometimes dialogue out in the real world, or if you're out, you know, you it's kind of this roll-on and it's people. So it it even just if this was recorded and sent to no one, it's actually such a nice way to have a conversation with someone.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

Yeah, 100%. And it's also like distraction-free kind of true just kidding, just too. There's the chips and the spilled wine and our gorgeous little thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, um, but yeah, I think it's nice because it's like concentrated time.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Yeah, it's awesome. Um, but yeah, it was, I mean, I've known you for years and we've spoken a lot about our mental health journey, and I learned so much more about your journey that I didn't even know. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I was wondering if you felt comfortable sharing a little bit of that today.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

Yeah, I certainly can. Um Yeah, I think yeah, I mean I don't even I don't really know where to begin. Um, but I think I might start with just saying that this um podcast guest spot with my family doing this is hugely important for a cultural shift as well. Thank you. I think that's a large part of why I did it. Um because mental health historically has been quite a heavily stigmatised thing in our cultural circle. Um and this is, I guess, part of the intergenerational trauma that we're trying to break, and it's it's hard work, but um I think that's why I felt more compelled to do it and to share my story. I think. Um I think I've spoken about this before, feeling a bit weird about being a doctor and um knowing that patients are listening to this podcast and feeling a bit vulnerable in that way. But I certainly think, you know, I've had patients say that it's nice to feel connected to my GP on a I'm like I'm not giving them my tax file number, you know what I mean, or my address. It's just like kind of sharing an experience. Um but yeah, I guess, you know, I've I guess um yeah, I uh one reflection of my mental health, I've always been quite a low person. I think just very different to what you say, you're quite joyful all the time.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Because I didn't know I didn't know that it went back like as far as you can. Childhood.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

Yeah, I've always been very low. Um and you know, without saying too much, I didn't have the best childhood um for reasons I don't want to disclose today, but um it certainly was a confusing time to grow up as a child because I was feeling really low and I didn't really know why. Um and I think a lot of the reflecting on why I was why my childhood wasn't how I wanted it actually came later on in life. Um and look, my parents, and we touched a bit on this in the podcast episode, is that my parents didn't know any better, right? They grew up in a very um different way, and um their kind of mentality was always, well, we had it way harder. So what's the problem, right? And so I often felt very invalidated in my feelings, and I really struggled to uh express them to my parents. Um Is that something you carry as well?

SPEAKER_00 26:19

It's like they suffered this much, why why am I like this? Yeah, so heavy.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Yeah, it was heavy. And when I got into uni, I didn't get into the course that my parents wanted me to get into. Um and I also moved into college and that was a really difficult time for me, socially isolated, living out of home. Suddenly there were naked men walking around the corridors. Okay, excuse you. And I went to an all-girls school, so I know. Oh yes, I remember the first kiss on the stage.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

If anyone's new to listening, uh go back to season one, uncut, uh kissing KFC, KFC, kissing foreplay. Kissing fingering. No, that's and chemistry. Yeah, all about Shamini's first kiss, it's gorgeous and not at all sad.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

Not at all sad, it's it's miserable. Um, but um yeah, I found uni a really difficult time and the same problems perpetuated. But not only was I like thrown into this like co-ed environment with kind of this adult-directed learning, I was away from my family and what I'd known, even though that probably wasn't a safe environment, I just was very confused. It's still all you knew, correct. Yeah, safe or not. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Yeah, it's all you knew. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

I got into med school um that was actually a good time. Um, but again, I think I was in a relationship that wasn't good for me. And again, moving away. I've had a lot of displacement. I've moved around like 15 houses in a short amount of time. Um but yeah, as I said, as I said on the podcast, I didn't really realise I needed some genuine help when I suddenly got very anxious.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Also, sorry, like shammy just just doing med school while like low-key wanting to die. Like that's so fucking. I think I was very good at masking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it's so sad, but it's yeah, also just like a it's insane feat. Yeah, like yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:08

Um yeah, I don't know. I I I I've again maybe reflecting back on the joy part that we were just I don't recall ever being genuinely happy in high school, truthfully, but I did have moments of joy in in my in my undergrad, and then these friendships have sustained me, you know, since then. So I certainly think it was better. And I I do wonder if that time during med school was like a part of this realization that I eventually needed to get help, like just this gradual building towards like okay, these people actually care about me, like I should do something. And yeah, and I remember my friends just being like because I'm a talker, so I'd just be talking about how I'm feeling, and what some of them at lunch one day was just like sharmani, you need to s like you need to sort this out. And I didn't really listen to them. Thank god for them. Yeah, thank god for them, but I didn't listen to them. Yeah, um often, yeah, yeah, it happens. It takes a few. I was like, I'm fine. Um and I was in this relationship which has only just recently ended, but in on reflection, that was yeah, that was probably part of the problem. Is that I was in a situation that probably was feeding the anxiety more than um healing it at that point. Yeah, yeah. And this is all just hindsight, I suppose. Um and then yeah, I had a massive panic attack at work one day, and I called the Doctor's Health Advisory Service, which is just amazing service. It's like a hotline for doctors who are in mental health distress.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

Okay, amazing. Let's put that in the show notes. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

Yeah, and I just rang them, and this just gorgeous GP on the other end was like, you know, well done for ringing. Proud of you. Um, let me get you some help. And then she booked me in with the GP the next day, and she's been my GP ever since. Stop her. And yeah, I'm so blessed to have her, and um she certainly just helped me. She's such a good GP that I would just have like um yeah. She's probably just such a good GP that like I would just have a consult with her and immediately feel light. Like immediately, like I would just be like, oh, I feel so much better knowing she's in my corner. And a couple of years ago I found the most incredible psychologist and just a perfect fit for me. And that's when I think I really started my proper healing journey when I was older, um, probably more equipped. And I I think I might have said this on the episode too is that I recognise the position of privilege that I'm in, that I'm a healthcare professional, that I have insight into these things and I know what's available. Um, but the the this was the catalyst for my relationship kind of ending as well, is that I had come to a crossroads where in my healing journey I kind of recognised my self-worth and my value and recognised that with the value that was around me and all the people that were around me, I had less reasons to feel low.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

Absolutely. I guess isn't that always the trade-off for growth, right? And for for stepping into your power. Yeah. It's always gonna be that you have to loosen off those chakras and sometimes drop that dead weight that actually wasn't served you at the time. It's not serving you.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

No, but I think I needed people around me to demonstrate that I had value. I know you're not supposed to rely on external validation to feel good, but it's sorry, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Sorry. It's not external validation though, what you're describing. Oh, sorry, continue. No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

I mean maybe maybe it is and maybe it isn't, but uh I just felt like the people I was with at SHQ and then people moving forward after that, it felt like a warm hug. Yeah, it felt safe. Because the word I'm always using is safe. I was in a safe workplace, I knew I wasn't gonna get punitive treatment. That part of my time as a junior doctor, I was bullied, and so I think that kind of made me scared. But as soon as I s learnt to like be like I can trust these people, that's when I really flourished. And like even my current workplaces are just the best. I wouldn't I wouldn't trade them for anything. Yeah, lucky to have you. Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

I I didn't mean to jump down your own. No, no, no, no, no, no. I I I don't think it's external like it's not external validation, I guess, what I was trying to. It's just like a community, as you say, the safe people that are just uplifting you and telling you the truth and just supporting you and loving you as you are. Um, so it's it's it's actually what we need as as people, as we said before, due to socialization, like we're social creatures, um, we're meant to be raised in community, it's actually what we need to survive and thrive.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

Absolutely, yeah. And I think you know, reflecting on the fact that like environment has a huge role to play in in our mental health, and um again, we're a product of our circumstances, and as you've said to me countless times, like I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the journey that I had. And I really do hold on to that. So yeah, it's been tough, but I think I can genuinely say that I'm in a good place. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Building character, babe, building character.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

And like I think it I think it truly makes me a better doctor. It I think it makes me makes me a better friend.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Yeah, makes me better, yeah. Absolutely, absolutely, like what we spoke about before about being relatable and like actually being able, like you've been in those shoes. You don't have to step into their shoes, you've been in their shoes. It does make you, yeah, it yeah, better doctor, better friend, better everything. And like what you spoke about on the podcast with your cousin, auntie. My niece about um breaking the chains is like so brave. So brave. So, so brave. Like I'm hard to. Yeah, it's yeah, so brave what you discussed, especially when you talk about your culture and how like I mean mental health is already really stigmatized, but when you talk about how much it's actually just not touched on in your background at all. At all. I just think it's the bravest thing ever. And I just think you're freaking awesome. Oh, thank you. I think you're friggin' awesome. Yeah, it's free awesome.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

Thank you so much for sharing. No, that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

It's a bit of a haphazard explanation, but thank you so much for sharing your charming out of the week. Yeah, I feel like it's benefited me and Louisa and anyone else listening. And yeah, just the fact I love you, I'm proud of you.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

Oh, I love you too, and I'm proud of you. Thank you. Yeah, I think um Big Brave Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Big BB.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

Brave yeah. Yeah. But um, I guess um sort of reflecting on that conversation, um, I did talk a little bit about sexual health and mental health. I guess we better give you. We probably should.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

I guess that's what we should probably try and talk about some sex.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

Um so I guess I did just want to ask you how or if your mental health has affected your sex life. I think we have in one of our uncut episodes previously, we did talk a little bit about you know the fact that you have generalized anxiety disorder and this has kind of affected you in um the bedroom or wherever you want to my bedroom. Why do I say bedroom? You could literally have sex anywhere. Okay, I don't even know why I said that, but you know, it makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So um, yeah, would you be comfortable reflecting on how it's affected you? Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Yeah. I mean, and I was thinking this a little bit today anyway, but um, like thinking about what makes me want to have sex and also what stops me from having sex. So like inhibitors and accelerators, I guess. Yeah. Um and actually I was doing a little bit of research and there were some like questionnaires that I found online which were interesting, which I can absolutely put in the show notes as well. Absolutely. Um and yeah, it I found that like when I think about something sexual, I'm I'm easily able to get turned on or get aroused. And then one of the questions was like, if someone finds you really sexy and voices that, does that make you aroused? And like Yes, but also no. I was kind of like, yes, it does, but then I wonder whether the reason it so something else pops up from me there and it's um panic. Like, oh like I think that's where my anxiety comes in that like I have to perform or do something any sort of way, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:37

Because they think you're sexy?

SPEAKER_00 36:38

Yeah, yeah. Like that, or even like I found lately, even if I like make out with someone on a dance floor, I'm like already anxious that I feel like it has to continue and that's something that I don't want to do. Yeah, and we have spoken about that a bit before, how we can just don't know, but it's yeah, yeah. Which is yeah, right, but unfortunately even though I know that and I know that the other person like to have a lovely make out is beautiful, right? It doesn't have to um go further, I find that that's still blocking me from enjoying A, enjoying the moment for itself, or B seeking those experiences myself because I feel like I have to then yeah, continue on.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

Yeah, so you're saying that when you get verbal external validation, it makes you feel more anxious.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

Maybe.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

Okay, interesting. Or maybe maybe that about maybe that um maybe that's the imposter coming out in you.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

Like if it we were already d in the deed doing the thing and it was someone I felt safe with, then yes, like I love, you know, um love hearing that stuff. But maybe Yeah, maybe, yeah, maybe there's a bit of imposter syndrome. I don't know. Maybe but yeah, that was the something that came up for me.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

Do you get immediately um turned off when you start to feel anxious?

SPEAKER_00 38:02

No. Okay. I don't get immediately turned off, but I am aware that I'm in my head and not my body. Yes. Um this often lends itself to a sort of feedback loop um in which I get stuck there. Yeah, and it's hard to get out.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

Absolutely. So you know, when and I think Nikki G's spoken about this in a previous episode about um fight or flight or the sympathetic nervous system. Fart or flight? Did I say fart? No, I heard fight. Okay, fight. Fight flight Yes, go on. Um, how when we are anxious that triggers our sympathetic nervous system. So the fight. Fight or fight.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

I just love farts, okay. Now I said it.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

So I guess in this moment when you are anxious, your b body is prioritizing survival, not pleasure. So, you know, it's not uncommon to be able like to not fully engage in the experience that you're having. So our parasympathetic nervous system is important for erectile function and lubrication. But if it's overridden by a sympathetic nervous system, those are gonna shut down. Yeah. Yeah. So that could that could I mean it's interesting you don't have that experience when you do feel anxious, but perhaps in those in instances you're not wanting to continue with that person. That's the anxiety that you're feeling.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Yeah, I think Yeah, unfortunately a lot of the anxiety is pre-bedroom. Yeah. And then maybe when I'm if I am in bedroom again, but you know, if I am in the bedroom again, like and I feel safe, then and often it's these moments during that I'm like, oh my god, you got this. Yeah. But it's the I lack the yeah, it's the anxiety before. It's like the the um apprehension before.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

Yeah, I think I'm similar. Yeah. Um yeah, I do. I do think I'm similar. I think I'm I've certainly reflected on this before about intimacy. Um as you know the way I was brought up. I'm I'm not used to safe touch. Um and I think I actually tend to withdraw with physical touch a little bit. Um and that I always find this really difficult transition between like you want to touch somebody or feel something with but I I really I actually have very closed-off body language. So I'll just be sitting with my arms crossed and then I'll I'll like do I what do I do now? How do I do I put my hand somewhere? Do I lean in? And then once I'm there, it's actually fine.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

Yes. But also maybe that is normal. Maybe that like are we? Does anyone like just like, hey baby, you know, like I you know, are we I obviously some people do, but I'm I'm sure there is always regardless of situation, is there always a little bit of that awkwardness when moving into sexual space with someone?

SPEAKER_02 41:00

Well, maybe but once I'm there, I'm very able to just mind-body connection fine. No drama's there.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

But like that is also so fair, right? Like even if you if this person is safe, well you're saying they're safe, like obviously they're safe because they want to have sex with them, but like they're safe and then they're safe, you know, like as a safe person and there's someone who makes you feeling safe in in the in the pair, which right is so because I feel like I'm very open in my body language and touch and stuff, uh which which can be misleading then when I'm like terrified. And also maybe why I don't know, maybe why I'm more anxious that it's gonna lead somewhere. I'm not sure. Maybe why I'm a bit more yeah. Um but yeah, it is it is because some me and my friends have spoken about like red light, green light people where like some people um will just say, so we're doing this, like you know, it's like so do you wanna have do you want to have sex now? Do you want to go to the bedroom now? Do you want to have a shower? Like hell just like cut to the chase, and others are just we'll wait for the green light before we make a move or whatever. But then yeah, so I've been in like pairings before where b both of us are green light people, as in I can't remember which one means which. I should research this better. But basically when two people are waiting for the other person to make the move and then you just kind of like flounder around and nothing ever happens. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Interesting. So um what about if you've ever been I mean, I know I've sort of talked about talking, talking, talking. Smoking. That's the one. Uh spoken about my journey with like depression, I suppose. Have you ever felt low that that's impacted your sex life?

SPEAKER_00 42:39

Yeah, I like I've definitely had um yeah, I guess like depressive episodes, but I've uh as a again, they've been pretty, pretty short and fleeting, luckily. Um yeah, it's hard to say. Yeah. Um the anxiety more than anything. Um yeah, that's that stopped me from seeking those yeah, that kind of touch and things. I guess there's definitely times where I've felt low where I've just felt no physical desire at all. Yeah. Just like no, just numb. Yeah. Um but that's almost sometimes more manageable than I guess like the flip side with depression.

SPEAKER_02 43:28

So if you think about the fight or flight with the anxiety, um, depression kind of just shuts things down um emotionally. And you can have something, this something called anodonia, which is basically the reduced ability to feel pleasure at all. So when you feel anodonia, you can feel quite disconnected with your body um and the person you're having sex with. And with the the dopamine that's rewarding in terms of intimacy and pleasure that doesn't exist. Yeah, wow. That's why people really struggle when they're low because they they like low. Hardly newer. Yeah, wow. It's crazy because I like I remember times where I was melancholic and I just didn't want any I didn't want anything to do with anyone. Um and I think that's like the like what's happening is this very low dopamine response. And so there's a lot of um well there's not a lot of like m motivation and reward. So we yeah we we don't have that and so intimacy which is obviously really important for connection we just don't even want that either. Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

You see how once again people get stuck.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

Yes absolutely absolutely yeah yeah yeah um so dopamine is more the reward seeking yes yes yes yes um the other thing that can happen is there is there is a bit of an imbalance in serotonin which is responsible for mood regulation yeah um and when you have that im imbalance it can like suppress desire in itself and then you can also just have an increase in cortisol when you're stressed or depressed. Yes. Um well mostly when you're stressed and then you have high anxiety and libido and libido difficulties. So yeah it's a bit of a vicious cycle.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

It is it is and like I mean I do remember this being like one of the things I was concerned about when starting SSRIs. So when starting medications for anxiety I had a few friends be like well I had one friend be like I hope you're ready to never come or cry again.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

What wow and I was like ah well that's the title of this episode Come and Cry Welcome. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um but yeah I it it um it hasn't really been the case like that's important to thank you for saying that because it's not a guaranteed side effect. So when it comes to SSRs I'm gonna talk about the science is that okay please you know how much I love science. Yes. So SSRIs they're called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors okay they are common drugs used to treat anxiety and depression and what they do is they can in fact lower sex drive or libido delay orgasm and reduce physical arousal and when you're on these medications and you feel these things it can kind of perpetuate this cycle then you're like why can't I achieve orgasm? Why can't I be aroused and then you kind of it feeds into your self-esteem a little bit over and over again. So the way that SSRIs work is that they actually um inhibit re-uptake of serotonin in the brain so they keep it in there for longer. So one would think serotonin being in the brain for longer that's great that's wonderful but actually the weird thing is serotonin itself can actually suppress libido and you know can block these orgasms and arousal by like affecting other brain receptors. So it's a little bit of a vicious cycle in that way. And you mentioned you use the term accelerators before and brakes and so this dopamine that we talked about as well is is an accelerator. Yeah. But SSRIs can actually put the brake on that too. So yeah it's it's tricky with SSRIs. Yeah yeah but you know uh roughly 30 to 70% of people will experience some of these side effects which is not an insignificant number. No.

SPEAKER_00 47:35

It's also quite a large ballpark. It is a large ballpark like if someone had been like 30% I'd be like go for it. Like I'll give it if someone's like seven I'd be like probably not going to risk it.

SPEAKER_02 47:44

Yeah and I guess that's probably just reflecting that sexual priorities and sexual preferences and things are diverse right and so some people might say yeah I can still be aroused but I can't orgasm and so orgasm is the most common reported delay in orgasm or an orgasmia is the most common.

SPEAKER_00 47:59

Yeah yeah and like it's not to say that I haven't noticed changes. Like I used to cry a lot I used to cry a lot happy sad just weepy just a weepy yeah always crying and I loved it honestly I love it. I definitely find myself in situations where I know that like I'm feeling such a emotion that you know I would normally cry but I don't sometimes that's a little bit like um not even concerning where I'm just like aware of it. But I will still have these moments of like big big cries. Yeah I think that maybe I'm just crying less but but still crying but cry crying big. Yeah and that's okay. Yeah um and then with the orgasms Yeah maybe harder to reach but reaching them nonetheless.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

Yeah like sometimes it's yeah and sometimes it's hard to know like I knew about the side effect potential and then I'm having sex and I was told I could possibly be delayed. And then you it's it's like it's so hard to know. Um and I you know I do just want to reassure people that if you're so sorry. Wow so sorry um if you're um speaking to your GP about starting one of these medications um you know they should be counselling you on the risks and benefits and the side effects obviously I just want to reassure you that you know these aren't guaranteed side effects um we can certainly mitigate these side effects you know that might be reducing the dose changing the medication um you know is there something else yeah that's not the medication it's very easy for us to one plus one it's the pill right but it could be lots of other things right definitely like could there be something external contributing as well so I think you certainly well I certainly with with my patients I'll say look we weigh up the risks and benefits right at the moment you're feeling very low very anxious do we want to how how do we want to live on a day to day and certainly we can also use a watch and wait approach so some people will experience the side effect in the beginning it'll actually just fade away over time as well. Yeah that's so cool to know I do just want to talk a little bit about antipsychotics if that's okay. Antipsychotics can do something called um they can increase a hormone called prolactin and prolactin can also cause an imbalance in our sex hormones like testosterone and estrogen and that is how it can affect libido directly with the yeah. So that's really tricky because that's not as adjustable right if someone's really stable on their antipsychotics they're having some hormonal changes and metabolic changes and so it can be really challenging with that as well. But you know SSRIs are certainly more kind of dopamine and serotonin and then the antipsychotics are mostly prolactin with the estrogen and testosterone impacts. And I think it's it's hard because I certainly on reflection in my own clinical practice I don't really have a lot of conversations with people who are on antipsychotics about their sex life. So I think that's certainly something that I will be thinking about a bit moving forward after I've had this conversation with my niece as well about yeah yeah so um it it's not all doom and gloom like you know we we we as we discussed with Nikki G there's medications um is it something else um and yeah I did I did want to talk a little bit about natural ways to increase our libido do you want to talk about that? Yeah I want you to talk about that okay do you know do you know what libido is? Yeah I want to say your sex drive yeah but I would yeah absolutely and first thing to acknowledge about sex drive is it's variable so just because somebody has a sex drive that's higher than yours doesn't mean you're abnormal vice versa everyone's sex drive is different um but there are some really big drivers to sex drive drivers to sex drive believe it or not believe it or not the fuel to the sex drive so testosterone right but this is in all genders so it's actually the primary hormone linked to libido high levels high sex drive right estrogen actually can influence sexual desire which is interesting so if we have imbalances and estrogen we may not be aroused as much interesting yeah yep yep we've talked about dopamine the reward seeking and the serotonin which can reduce libido and then you know we've talked about oxytocin in our kissing episode haven't we in our intimacy episode we love oxytocin oxytocin yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um so in terms of specific hormones so um estrogen increases blood flow to the genitals gives us some nice lubrication and makes us more sensitive to touch sensitive to touch we love we love should I do the rest in ASMR? Yes it's almost bedtime I just cackle every now and then really jarring like jolting people awake um estrogen also boosts dopamine that's pretty cool um and it modulates serotonin so this is it's unsurprising that postmenopausal women drop their libido no oh no they also have a testosterone drop but yeah this is both yeah double whammy double whammy um so I guess in terms of natural ways to increase our sex drive any thoughts what we could do there's no right or wrong oysters no wait is it oysters no what's a um aphrodisia yeah oysters um I guess it also just generally so if you think about the main driver is testosterone do you know what the the easiest way is to build testosterone is to say yes to a stranger at a gym holding a rusty needle fuck okay it's not as exciting as that it is actually exercise so we know that muscle um mass yeah muscle mass is closely linked to testosterone okay yeah so if we strength train and do high intensity training we can actually increase our testosterone which I think on reflection has helped me as well so as soon as I was very active you know four or five times a week I certainly found my drive yes would increase.

SPEAKER_00 55:11

I guess I always knew that I just didn't link it to like the actual science behind it like which is so funny. It's like I don't know you you you you're exercising you feel good and like and then you're therefore you're like feeling sexy. But I never thought it to it to be actually the science.

SPEAKER_02 55:24

And this is why I love the here yeah well this is I mean well this is why I talk to like a lot of postmenopausal women about this who are asking for testosterone. It's not a no you can't have testosterone but it's a let's consider the other options that can boost your testosterone and are also going to help your bone density and all the other menopausal symptoms so and wouldn't you want to do it in a natural way if you could absolutely absolutely so we um we love exercise that's how to increase testosterone we love does it have to specifically be strength training? Yes muscle endurance yes muscle mass yep yep yep um sleep okay testosterone is mostly produced during sleep fuck I get like no sleep that's cool we need to sleep more okay so this is this is why I love being a GP it's just tripping it back to the basics though. Yeah true nutrition okay okay you know protein healthy fats good micro macronutrients these are all really important right nutrition um crash dieting low fat diets crash dieting sorry crash dieting is like you know having very low calorie diets crash dieting yeah yep yep yep yep um low vitamin make the rosty needle low vitamin D is also linked to low testosterone yes okay this is important because vitamin D is important overall vitamin vitamin D vitamin D so we need that okay um lucky in Australia we're mostly sunny but we do have vitamin D deficiency here so think about that. Yeah and of course stress can so that's what I was gonna say yeah cortisol yeah yeah so cortisol can suppress testosterone so stress management it's so easy for me to say just manage your stress that's you know um but as you can see there's so many things that affect our testosterone you know yeah it might not just be the medication so true you know what I'm saying so let's not vilify the meds like although I sp like I've spoken a lot about my anxiety inhibiting my sex life right and my anxiety bleeding into my sex life even though I'm now medicated like and even that you know one of the side effects is it could decrease my my libido but my anxiety was stopping me from having sex anyway. Exactly it's it's complex right it's really complex and I think you know the just the really important thing to think about is I don't want the medications to be vilified. There's a role for them and we also have to look at people as a whole and what contributes to their social and emotional and physical wellbeing. Absolutely exercise nutrition sleep these are all the things that sustain us and support testosterone and sex drive it if we have those things we might be able to mitigate the effects of the testosterone no love no it's so true so true. Yeah um other things alcohol smoking heaps of it yes I should be moderation matters and of course you know we've we've talked a lot about safety and and sexual confidence so I mean yeah I think this is a very common question I get is I'm re I'm really worried that my sex driver's gonna go I can't have enough my sex life is really really important to me and I get it I get it um again always weighing up the risks and benefits and you you're not gonna know unless you give it a go and there are other ways to mitigate that so remember side effects are not guaranteed and there are other ways to manage. So I I think you know we've both spoken about how SSRIs have saved us. Yes and we're still having sex.

SPEAKER_00 59:08

Yes albeit anxiously anxious you know it's yeah we're still doing it right like yeah as you say if you don't know give it a go you can stop um and yeah I I my some of my friends like they joked I'm like an SSRI pusher you know a bit of a joke just only because I see my friends suffering like I used to and that there is potentially the option um you know to to help so I guess it's just remain open is my only takeaway remain open yeah you don't know yeah you don't know if you don't you don't know if you don't give it a go.

SPEAKER_02 59:43

If if my love is episode if your GP is thinking it's a good idea for you keep the conversation open I certainly say to my patients you know it's not a definite today we're just gonna keep keep chatting about it you know in the future if that's something we we need to do. Um and I guess that you have to sit with the balance of like is my anxiety and depression which can be treated by these SSRIs inhibiting my sex life already would it actually be enhanced by adding these medications in that's also something to consider.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:11

So they're all linked they're all moving parts. Yeah yeah so yeah that's libido meds and hormones and science I love it no stats today oh no I gave some stats about side effects yeah you did yeah yeah yeah um no super helpful and yeah I think a brilliant chat all round yeah it's been good yeah is there anything else that we wanted to add or say I don't think so I don't think so either I think it's time for bed Louisa's just doing fit the bed signal at us which is so fair so we've also we also normally share this bottle of wine between four but actually Ellie and I have just had the whole bottle between the two of us. Yes we have yes we have and we've actually got two bottles not the we've only drank one but because I brought the original one with a corkscrew and they didn't have a wait what?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:10

Oh god with a cork and they didn't have a corkscrew that's a sex position too and yeah oh my god it so is so everything ties in yeah really anyway um look yeah this has been this has been great it's been critically probably not as many gags as per usual but that's okay though I think that's fine I think it's perfect I I like I think you're perfect you're perfect no you know you know you know you you look so beautiful oh so do you truly I like how anywhere you're naturally anywho don't forget to like and subscribe no like and subscribe just follow us okay be kind and just follow us um you can also don't forget in our show notes yes we have all our resources links to things that you might find interesting I've don't even know how to be coherent anymore there's also a little link to send us a message you can send us a voice note oh please send us a voice please send us a voice note and then we can send us a voice note send us a voice note it's anonymous it's an anonymous voice note so when it comes through they they allocate it just a number to your name so it's not actually you oh my god that's so cool because everyone keeps telling me things in person and I don't fucking care. Write it down send it in I don't care it's not real unless it's you're writing or voice noted stop lines on the line and tell me that you're like I don't care write it down you put it here first um but yeah don't and and also just if you want us to talk about something you want us to stop talking just let us know they're never no never no if you yeah if you want us to do a topic um send in your sudge sorry send in your sudge sorry like send in your suggestions and that's fairly kill the switch I mean I've supposed to name Louisa oh shit bye bye bye for goodness sex is produced and edited by me, Dr. Sharmany social media and visuals by Nurse Ellie audio assistance by Avesta Zanel. We couldn't do it without our management team Louisa and Sarah the Henhouse Recording Studio for hosting our recording sessions and Tapari Sound Safari for our music. Don't forget to check out our show notes for all our recommendations and to send us a text with your questions, queries stories or feedback. We love hearing from you. Thanks for listening