For Goodness Sex

OPINION: Should transmitting an STI be considered as inflicting grievous bodily harm?

• Shyamini and Ellie • Season 2 • Episode 7

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In recent times, a young male in Canberra, Australia, was charged and sentenced for transmitting HSV2 to another person. 

Join us as we discuss this case. It’s a complex one, but important to discuss. We would love to hear your thoughts on this one. So write in, send us a voice note, or catch us around the traps and let us know what you think. 

Find us here!

Instragram: @fgsx_pod

Email: fgsx.pod@gmail.com

Articles here!

The conversation: Punishing one person for STI transmission weakens public health efforts: https://theconversation.com/punishing-one-person-for-sti-transmission-weakens-public-health-efforts-84210

ABC article on HSV2 case: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-05-06/canberra-man-sentenced-inflicting-grevious-bodily-harm-herpes/106648748

Who needs to know about my STI?: https://www.1800myoptions.org.au/blog/notifiable-infections-and-partner-notification-who-needs-to-know-about-my-sti/

Clinician resource here!

Disclosure information: https://contacttracing.ashm.org.au/disclosure-of-information/


We are your co-hosts, Dr Shyamini and Nurse Ellie, and this, is For Goodness Sex xx

SPEAKER_00

Hello, my name is Shamani, and I am a co-host of the podcast for Goodness Sex. I am a Fijian Indian woman of immigrant parents and am proud to live, work and play on Wajuknyunga Country. This podcast acknowledges the past, present, and future traditional custodians of stolen country and the impact this has had on the health and well-being of our Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander brothers and sisters. Sovereignty was never ceded. Hi team.

SPEAKER_02

Now, whilst we are healthcare professionals, this episode is for informational purposes only, and it does not replace personalized healthcare advice. Your health is unique to you. If you have healthcare concerns, please seek out your local health professional. Nailed it. Nailed it. Nailed it. Sorry. Absolutely nailed it. Thank you, babe. Thank you. Hello, hello, hello, hello. Hello, hello, hello. Hello.

SPEAKER_00

It's me.

SPEAKER_02

Hi, hello, and welcome. We are your co-hosts, Dr. Charmanie and Nurse Ellie.

SPEAKER_00

And this is for goodness sakes.

SPEAKER_02

Hello, Tom. Hello. Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello. How are you? I am doing pretty good today. Um, yeah, this is probably the first day that I've felt like my normal self again after battling a sickness for the last two weeks.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you were pretty crooked. Louisa. No, just producer Louisa, who got everyone sick and some. No, we can't blame her.

SPEAKER_02

Um, it's been going around. I know, it's been going around, but hey, look, it turns out I'm um I'm not invincible. So who knew? Who knew? I didn't. But um, yeah, neither did I. But it's good to be back. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, what about you? Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. I uh did I I had a little bit of stress last couple of weeks for various reasons. Um life is not linear, as I always say. Um but I just I kind of just took my own advice and I stripped it right back, and I was like, right, I just need to try and sleep better, eat properly, exercise, you know, just stripped it right back, and I feel like I'm on the way up.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, proud of you. Literally everything we spoke about in our episode with Kendall about Pim Diddy as well. Absolutely. Stripping it back, doing the good things. It's like annoying, but you know that like that is the truth. Yeah. Damn it. This actually is the key, isn't it? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And just celebrating like going to the gym once this week was like you know, like that was good.

SPEAKER_02

So just like moving your body in any way, win. Win, win, win. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Okay, nice. Um before we start this episode. Oh, here we go. A word from our sponsor. Just getting we don't have sponsors. Okay, I wish. If anybody wants to sponsor us, please do get in touch metaphorically and physically. We like being touched. Yeah. We're poor. We're poor. A word from our sponsors. Okay, no, not a word from our sponsors. Um I wanted to just piggyback off our come and cry episode. Nice where we talked a little bit about a little bit talked a little bit about joy. Yeah. And I know some of your friends fed back that they thought it was lovely just to hear us talking about joy, which I thought was like, okay, well the fans love it. So I thought we would just, I don't know, introduce a new little segment. Okay, love. And just maybe talk about something that we purposely found joyful or sought out in the last week since we last saw each other.

SPEAKER_02

I love this. Yeah. Great idea. Yeah. That's gorgeous. Absolutely. I've actually got one. Okay, go ahead. That's great. Yeah, yeah, good, good, good. I actually had such a gorgeous interaction at work last week. Um, and like the reason it's in my brain is because I actually audio messaged it to a few friends, um, obviously all confidential. Um, but yeah, I had this gorgeous, like, older Iranian woman come in, and it was her first time in a sexual health clinic, and she was so nervous, and oh, we just had the most gorgeous consult ever. We ended up literally hugging, and she was like, I love you, and I was like, I love you too, like fully. It was so sweet. Like, um, she was saying how I guess, like, in in with her culture and her community, it's really difficult to talk about these things, and she'd been married for such a long time and only ever been with her husband, and they had decided to like open up their relationship. Um, and I think her just like coming to the sexual health clinic and having such a positive experience, like from the door, um, was just she was so relieved and so thankful. She was just like, Oh, thank you for being so kind, like you're so beautiful, you're so unique. Like, but just weeping.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's so beautiful, so heartwarming. And so lovely, like that you came into her life in that way and created this safe space so she felt safe enough to talk about sex, but also safe enough to show emotion with you. Yeah, yeah. Which is huge.

SPEAKER_02

How cute! I was like, You've made my day. She was like, Can I um can I request you every time? I was like, Yeah, well, I'll be mad if you don't. She was like, Can I send my husband in? I was like, Yeah, send your husband in. Like, I was also like fucking proud of you because like I was like, I admire and respect you because you know, like what is um the other option sometimes? You know, is it infidelity, is it marriage breakdown? You know, it's like you went against everything that you've been taught, you know, and she was like, you know, I've got this one life and I want to live it. And I was like, good for you. Um, but yeah, so that was definitely the highlight. It makes you like moments like that where you're like, Oh, I love my job. Yeah, absolutely. Could have spoken to her forever. Yeah, forever.

SPEAKER_01

It's um healing.

SPEAKER_02

It is, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It was so nice. Oh, that's so nice.

SPEAKER_02

I love that. What about you?

SPEAKER_01

Um, well, mine has actually got to do with my dog entirely. Oh, yes, Daisy. Daisy girl. Let's go. Um, she is like a little bit hyperactive and doesn't settle well in like crowds, so she needs constant stimulation and constant like energy and yeah, but it's just fine. Um and I actually met some of my girlfriends and their kids for a walk around Hyde Park. Love it. And I was like, I'm gonna take Daisy, I'm gonna see what happens, but we're gonna I'm gonna take Daisy, we're gonna sit on a picnic mat, which is like huge for her. She did not sit down. And um aim high. Aim high, yeah. So we went and she was just the best girl ever. She sat there and she just looked around and like she was just the goodest girl. And I was like, Daisy, you bring me so much joy even when I'm stressed about your behaviour. It was just nice because I was like, oh, she did such a good job, you know, and that really brought me joy that like it was just a really nice moment. And we were I was with obviously all my friends and their kids, and they were like, I think I've mentioned this before about joy like watching parents interact with their children or like playing on the playground and just like doing happy, joyful things that are not necessarily riddled with fear and you know, complex feelings and things, they're just having fun. And I think that kind of in that environment just like brought me joy that Daisy could be involved in that too.

SPEAKER_02

You had your baby there and she was well behaved. Oh man, that's so nice. That's nice. She's obviously stoked to be back with you. Oh, thank the good Lord. She's like, I'll never, I'll never put a paw out of line. Should have abandoned me again.

SPEAKER_01

Except she had a fight with a dog today, but like that's fine with her. We don't want to talk about that.

SPEAKER_02

That didn't bring me joy, but that brought me stress. You just like Sharmani's like, I'm gonna be late. I'm just I need to shower off the shame of being a bad dog. Dogs are dogs. Dogs are dogs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

They have feelings that they don't know where to put.

SPEAKER_02

But yeah. Oh, that's beautiful, babe. Love. Well, I love the new segment we can segment. We can work on the name. We can work on yeah, absolutely. Choosing joy. I love it. Choosing joy.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe choosing joy. Uh we didn't choose it though. You're a chronically joyful person, so you're always joyful. You say it like it's bad then.

unknown

No, no.

SPEAKER_01

No, I mean, is it like you don't choose it? You are joy. Yeah. Uh yes. You are joy incarnate. Descent from heaven. As joy. There's two choice. If you were a goddess, you would be joy. You would taste like a honey joy too. How joyful.

SPEAKER_02

Bless you, that's very kind. Joy to the world. Joy too. Yeah. But there is still some choosing involved. Yeah. So but yeah, we'll work on that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I want to talk about something that is a little bit topical in the media and kind of follows on from our Herpes episode. Yes. So actually. Yeah, so I actually just wanted to talk about a case that's been in the media recently. So I'm just going to give our listeners a rundown because I think you know the case. I know the case. And then we're just going to talk about how we feel about it. Gorgeous. Great. So I'm going to put my best news reader voice.

SPEAKER_02

Before you start, um. And now crossing to Charmani Naidu for a upcoming news story. This just in. Charmani, can you hear?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, Ellie. Thank you so much. Today's case. A Canberra man has been sentenced for knowingly exposing a woman to genital herpes. Daniel Marion admitted to recklessly inflicting grievous bodily harm after he had unprotected sex with the victim in 2023. He was twenty one at the time. He contracted HSV two in twenty- I'm sorry. Sorry, Miss I'm sorry, I'm sorry, it's so good. Kick going, kick going. I should be a newsreader. He contracted HSV two in twenty twenty before he began a sexual relationship with the victim in early twenty twenty three. In an article published by the ABC written on the 6th of May, it was reported that the victim had asked Daniel if he had been checked for STIs, and he reported he was clear. They then went on to have unprotected sex several times thereafter. In a message said to the woman after she contracted, he wrote, You're the most attractive person I've been with. I didn't want to tell you I didn't want to risk us not having sex. The judge during sentencing said he had multiple opportunities to disclose. He in fact told her he didn't think she would get it. The herpes, that is. This bit is interesting. He read in a pamphlet that he was not legally required to disclose herpes to sexual partners. However, the judge pointed out the same pamphlet about transmission and prevention and that he knowingly lied when being asked. Dun dun dun. Brilliant reading voice. Thank you so much. Sorry, Billy. Um to all our listeners, I hope you actually consumed that case in a meaningful way. I could have just read it out properly, but I think it was perfect.

SPEAKER_02

Well, thank you so much. ABC's gonna harm you down. No doubt, no doubt. Yeah, head hunting. Yeah, yeah. Um No, I think it was clear. So yeah, the 21-year-old was convicted. First time in Australia, yes. This has occurred. So it's a big deal. Big deal. Um for yeah, transmitting herpes to someone else. And they he actually got sentenced for grievous bodily harm. Correct, yeah, so it's grievous bodily harm. Yes. Yep, yep. But it's a very um it's a it is a topical. It is. And there's yeah, there's so much to it, so I'm glad that we're unpacking it today. What are your like what are your initial thoughts on this whole case? Yeah, yeah. Um, well, I guess the first thing that I did when I found out about it, um, I mean, first of all, I was like, this is not good and this isn't gonna be good um in terms of public health and for stigma, but we'll I'll get into that a bit more later. I also um the first thing I did was sort of research researched the laws uh in the different states, because I was a bit confused myself actually after reading the article. Um yeah, I guess it had always been my understanding that um we're not required by law to tell our partners about HSV, it's not a notifiable infection, as we've discussed. Yeah, that was also my understanding. Yeah. And then I was looking through, so it's a little bit different in every state. So New South Wales, it's they it's also not required by law, but the the idea is that you have to take reasonable precautions to prevent transmission for STIs. Okay, so whether that be condoms, um, you know, letting like antivirals, like avoiding sex during outbreaks, things like that. Um and then in Canberra, actually, so excuse me, let me just get my notes. You're also doing the legal work. Oh my god, my pleasure. Nothing to skip going. Someone will hire me, but like the court, the the courts will hire me now. Um so ACT, so Canberra, um they actually don't have a specific SDI disclosure law. So there's no requirement to disclose an STI. Um, but yeah, I guess Oh, but then was he was he not was he convicted in Canberra? Yeah, must have been. Yeah, he was, but there's no specific STI disclosure law. He was prosecuted under general criminal law, which was inflicting grievous bodily harm.

SPEAKER_01

So what the issue is here is is giving someone herpes knowingly grievous bodily harm.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, which is wild, right? Because like this because I guess grievous bodily harm is is things that are often, you know, that charge is often for people that have, you know, done quite violent acts, you know, and it it does it this will have lifelong implications for this this young man as well, you know, having that on your record. So it's like it's all very very interesting. I guess um, and like when I was doing yeah, my research, the the the language grievous bodily harm is more designed for like criminal law, not for public health, right? Yes, yeah. This is the issue. Um, like the way that the courts talk about SDIs is very different to how sexual health clinicians do. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Um and then lastly, I was just looking at WA, obviously, yeah. Okay, so yeah, so WA is the most we're more purely driven by public health jurisdiction. So criminalization is not a part of our SDI management. Um it's more so that we rely on um like shared responsibility and contact tracing and education and things like that. So yeah, that was the first thing I did, was just like, hang on, what yeah, what is the law here? How did this occur?

SPEAKER_01

Um and then, yeah, my I guess my What was your initial, like you've obviously done the research, what was your initial gut reaction to reading this?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I was shocked and um kind of appalled and concerned. Yeah. I guess firstly, I thought maybe this person had an active outbreak and did do it with malicious intent. Okay. So I thought when I read it, I was like, did this person have an active outbreak and and was the sex consensual and did they purpose like before I just like when I just read the headline, I was like, how could this have come about? Did they have an active outbreak and they purposely maliciously transmitted it? That's not the case. Um this person just didn't disclose, you know? Yeah. Um yeah, I guess It's a tricky one, isn't it? It is so tricky.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I just feel like so. This is a it's a complex issue as you've identified, and I didn't know about the different laws, so thank you for clarifying that. I think like my initial reaction was like, oh no, like this is probably a step backwards for the plight to destigmatize herpes as a condition. Absolutely. Um I think the if it wasn't herpes or something else, like would we be because like the issue was that she asked directly, do you have any SDIs or have you had screening? And he said no. So the issue was that he withheld information after being directly asked. That's the issue, I think. And so if it was something else like gonorrhea or chlamydia and could be easily treated or something like that in that way, would there be like I don't know, I think it's just like the fact that it's herpes. I know.

SPEAKER_02

Well that's the thing is like, yeah, in the in the um statement or whatever, you know, where it's saying that the victim will suffer like this incurable disease with like lifelong which like I guess it's another yeah, so it said like lifelong mental and physical impacts basically. And it's like one of those things where two things can be true, I guess. So one, not to like her feelings are valid. I I know, like, you know, I guess a first HSV outbreak, you know, it's it is a lot and it is scary. Um and you know, I I understand that myself having HSV. Um but yeah, I think at the same time it's this kind of language that isn't is yeah, is an issue. Um and I agree with you. Yeah, so the what if the she'd been like have you recently been tested? Okay, so HSV isn't routinely tested for. So, you know, he could have been someone could have been like, yeah, I've recently had a test, it's all clear. Like, yes, we encourage people to be like, by the way, I do have HSV, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Um it's so tricky because like when I was reading this case more, I was like, okay, we know that you can get HSV2 from anyone or HSV one from anyone. How do we know it definitely came from him? This is the other thing. This is the bit that I get. Is this her first ever partner? Well, mate, I don't know, it could have been. And so I think this is the issue that I have is that like he actually pleaded guilty, which is why it can't be appealed. Like he was like, Yeah, I I intentionally, or not intentionally, but I I did cause it. Yeah, I knew I had it. But it's it's actually impossible to know, right? And and there's, you know, he was right in believing that the chances of shedding it were low, but perhaps he should have been aware that it was still possible. He knew that he had it. Yeah and it's probably I think the issue is omitting the truth or lying about it, not the fact that it's herpes itself. I think I think we just need to like take a fact that she said, Do you have any STIs or have you been cleared? And he said no, then she was able to make a choice with the information that she was given.

SPEAKER_02

Um not to ever back up a 21-year-old boy, you know, but this was a 21-year-old boy. You know, fuck God, you know, we we make mistakes. I know I've had God, lock me up. Lock lock me up and throw away the key, because when I was younger, I didn't disclose my HSV status before I understood what it meant multiple times. So who knows who I've given it to, you know. My concern is, yeah, I share your concerns about um yeah, public health at large and that this will deter people from um disclosing this will deter people from getting tested, and it will just like create more stigma around HSV. I also like feel so sorry for this boy who now has grievous bodily harm charge, sentenced to 12 months of jail, community service.

SPEAKER_01

13 months since just been downgraved to community service, but it initially was jail.

SPEAKER_02

But yes, still that conduct record that affects your life, that affects jobs, that affects everything. Um so like although yes, I'm aware that her life has also been affected, absolutely. Um it's just yeah, for me, I'm just like you know, does that help the cause?

SPEAKER_01

Like I'm sure he's learned his lesson, but like I think that I think there should be some um like there should be some responsibility. There should be a consequence of some kind. Um did it need to be 13 months in jail slash community service. I'm not sure. Like it feels a bit um it feels a bit extreme. Um so he he he was cog so he was cognizant of the fact that he had herpes and you know that the statement that he made about saying, well, I thought you wouldn't have sex with me if I told you. I see what you're saying, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Like he he he he knew that what he was doing was And I only imagine that the judge came to such a conclusion like he knew he was worried that she like said she was so hot, I was worried that you wouldn't have sex with me otherwise, and that there was only partial remorse. So like I wonder if this person's character and behaviour and attitudes in court, or like whatever, you know, did influence the decision. You know, if this person was there being like, Yeah, don't really give a fuck, but you know, and not really bothered, then then maybe they're like, okay, you you know, then we do need to crack down on this. So it but yeah, it is it is a really, really it's such a tricky thing.

SPEAKER_01

And you know, for her, like I can imagine, you know, whilst we are certainly aiming to destigmatise herpes as a condition, I think it it is probably quite frightening to still like to get it and then think, okay, well, this is with me for life now, and what that means. And and as you and I both know, that it's so hard for people to reconcile the diagnosis at the beginning. Absolutely. And I think that there should be some onus given to that, like if I had known I would have been able to decide differently, maybe. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

You know, now that I'm thinking about it, I'm like Yeah, it's more about as you say, like, I tried to do this person wanting to do everything right for themselves. Yes, asking. And how much do you would feel violated just in that sense that like I did all the right things? Because I guess sometimes if you're having not that again, not a certain type of person gets HSV, but you know, if you um if if I'm gonna be having unprotected Sex with casual partners, and I don't always like ask about their testing or whatever, and then I get HSV. You know, like sometimes you have to know that that is, I guess, a part of sex. Sometimes true that you could potentially get HSV. You know, that's a little bit on me. I guess say this person was really diligent and and and like asked upfront and was told no, so then was led to believe it was fine, then didn't wear the condom, then got it. You know, it's that yeah, I understand the way it's.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I can't remember what episode it was, but or disclosing, and it's like she tried to do all the right things to protect herself, and if he had said, I have HSV2, she could have used that information to protect herself. But his I guess reasoning for being like you wouldn't have had sex with me because you're so hot, it's just a like I know he's 21, but just like a little bit Yeah, he would have known that he couldn't transmit it. Yeah, he would have known. Yeah. I I don't think the punishment is justified, it's quite severe. I agree. I agree. I think the punishment is severe. Do I think that what he did was wrong? I I do, actually. I think there should be some consequence to know that we're trying to not only are we trying to destigmatise herpes, but we're also trying to make people responsible. And educated. And educated. And she did the right thing by asking. And so I think there's a clear message in this that um A, we have to think about A, there's multiple messages in this, but one of the messages is we have to acknowledge that HSV is is a very common condition and it should not be feared. And at the same time, we also have to acknowledge that people have the right to do what they want with the information that they're given and they should be given it. So I think it's it's a two-fold issue, I think.

SPEAKER_02

So um Yeah, so say in the future if so if someone yeah, so if someone were to be like, have you ever been diagnosed with an STI, then people with HSV should be disclosing yes.

SPEAKER_01

I would think so. What what do you think? Like I It's so tricky.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's like um you don't have to disclose I know that why why so many people, older people in different donations like wouldn't. I know.

SPEAKER_01

It's so tricky because I think we know that the asymptomatic asymptomatic shedding is still possible. So you you you are tran possibly transmissible at you know multiple times. And it's really hard because there's a difference in the nuance of like, have you had a recent STI test? I know. Or have you ever had an STI?

SPEAKER_02

It's tricky. It's tricky. It's tricky. And we don't test for it. We don't test for it. So yeah. It's a tricky one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we did put it to the community and there was some interesting, um interesting insights. So firstly, I had a look on Reddit. Um So yeah, uh the the the large response on Reddit was actually all for it. So we got here, wow, the justice system got it right for once. Holy shit, go Australia. Um Wow. Yeah. Um And then sentence should have been we don't have to include all this that way, but this is just No, no, so don't read it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um sentence should have been harsher in my opinion, but at least the judge didn't buy the bullshit excuses. Um why did the judge call this impulsive? This wasn't simply a bad decision in the moment. It was a series of calculated lies to manipulate her into having sex. He thought about this, he weighed his chances of sex post-disclosure and chose to lie. This is a man who has done this before, but hopefully the publicity me publicity, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, means he won't ever get a chance to do it again. Wow. And then Yeah, we had another one on Instagram that said absolutely deserving of the consequence. Causing harm is causing harm. That's the bottom line.

SPEAKER_01

It's so hard because maybe these people that are commenting also have HSV. It's like it's so hard, right? Like you know, but they don't know they have it. And I I think like I I I I tend to agree that if you have the information and you have been asked in order to protect the other person, you should say, Yes, I have something. And they should be allowed to make a decision, I feel. Like I would like to know if somebody knew, so that I could be like, okay, I will either opt to not use protection or I would. Yeah. Um if they knew. But if they don't know, that's a different story, right? Because I've never been tested or never had an outbreak. That's a different story. But I think the knowledge of having it and then then continually having sex with this person knowing despite the fact that she asked.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Feels not calculated, but just feels a bit misguided and like, oh, I hope for the best, she just doesn't get it. Yeah, I hear. But we know from a public health standpoint that's really complex because we actually don't know really where any of this has come from. No. So that's where the complicating factor is, is that it could have come from anywhere.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and I guess that's what we said in our herpes episode as well. It's like, you know, um, how positive that dis like disclosing can be. Like a just to then everyone's consenting and also like um eases your anxiety. Maybe that you would pass it on if you hadn't disclosed. And then um yeah, it it also brings awareness to how common HSV is as well, the more we have these discussions. So yeah, I think it's it is what we've spoken about before, where like we've spoken about how to disclose, we've spoken about um that it is obviously difficult, but also again, like what are we concerned that then the person won't want to have sex with us?

SPEAKER_01

Then what, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. You know, that's like then that's what it is. I know it's such their progressive tricky. It's tricky. Speaking to health professionals, they had a very different take. So yeah, one of um uh clinicians said way to way to stigmatise STIs, couldn't agree more with the opinion in the article, um, which it said this is so unhelpful. And uh we can link it in the show notes, but the article was just raising concerns about stigma and shame around HSB. Um another health professional said it's ludicrous. It would be like you having to disclose to anyone that you've met that you've had chicken box before because who knows you might have shingles and pass it on to them.

SPEAKER_01

Good point. Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_02

So it is so nuanced, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

It is. I uh curious, do you think that this might prompt more people to either disclose or use condoms? I don't think so. No, no, Louisa's just shaking her head.

SPEAKER_02

I'm just curious, like you know, if it involves a criminal offence, but um definitely not use condoms. No one nothing can make anyone use condoms. We've tried. I've tried so hard. No, I um what do you think some are being trying? Yeah, fuck. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

Well, if they know that they can it can be a grievous bodily harm, maybe they might be more likely to disclose.

SPEAKER_02

Or hide it away forever and choose to have sex. Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. We also had some fan mail. Sorry, before I get to the fan mail, we had um we had also another message on Instagram. So as a sex worker, we see it a lot. Had a client come in and fail his health check, and when it was politely pointed out to him that it likely could be HSV, he said something along the lines of, Oh, you seem like a high value woman, so I'll just leave without my refund, and was quite bashful about it. A lot to unpack there, but primarily it indicated that he had knowledge of what he had and was willing to expose a worker to it, but showed remorse and shame upon deciding the individual worker was valuable enough to protect mega ill. So it definitely happens where people have knowledge of something and still choose to expose others to transmission risks. Always says a lot about how sex workers are viewed within community. Yeah, interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, very interesting. Um the fan where we got was grievous bodily harm feels wild for something like herpes that infects so many people and is relatively non-obtrusive to your daily existence. Feels like something that should only be applied to actual harmful infections and only in certain situations of deceit or lack of consent, which I guess is what we sort of unpack. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I think that's more the core of it. The herpes itself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

By this logic, should we not be pressing charges to those who knowingly shared water bottles with us and gave us herpes too? Question mark. Silly in it, but education over punishment all day, every day in every case, which is so true. Interesting, yeah. So, like, and look, maybe that is part of this person's community service. Hopefully, there's some sex, you know, compulsive sex.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe the schools could, I don't know, step up here. Yeah, please.

SPEAKER_02

Please, that'd be nice. So look, send us in your thoughts. Yeah. Because we can always like come back and revisit this. We absolutely can. Um, we'll have some more chats, but yeah, it's it is a really, a really tricky run, and we appreciate everyone yeah, sending in their thoughts. I think we both know that there's multiple things that can be true here.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, and I think obviously based on our discussion, we know that it's multi-layered and there's no correct answer. No. Um, and we're all gonna have differing opinions, but ultimately we want to destigmatise herpes. We really, really do. We do. We do. And maybe reevaluate what should be a criminal punishment warranty in jail. Feels feels very extreme. Feels extreme. Um but anyway, we are open to everyone's thoughts, feelings, suggestions, comments. Send us your feedback. Send us your feedback. Send us a voice note. Send us a voice note, we love voice notes.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Bye, bye! Bye. For Goodness Sex is produced and edited by me, Dr. Shamani, social media and visuals by Nurse Ellie, with audio assistance by Avesta Zanel. We couldn't do it without our management team, Louisa and Sarah, the Hen House Recording Studio for hosting our recording sessions, and Tapari Sound Safari for our music. Don't forget to check out our show notes for all our recommendations and to send us a text with your questions, queries, stories, or feedback. We love hearing from you. Thanks for listening.

unknown

Yay!