For Goodness Sex

P0rn Politics: Part 2

• Shyamini and Ellie • Season 2 • Episode 11

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We're back for part 2 of our porn series! And yes, we’re nervous. But we’re also brave! 

If you've not listened to part 1, we recomend starting there. 

In this two part series, we dive into the good, the bad, and the genuinely damaging. 

How has porn shaped our sexuality? What responsibility does it have? And how can we build porn literacy that actually supports pleasure, consent and connection?

Tune in to find out!

Find us here!

Instagram: @fgsx_pod

Email: fgsx_pod@gmail.com

Resources here!

“Porn Literacy: An Introduction” – Emily Rothman et al. 

The Pornhub Insights annual report 

The Australian Institute of Family Studies (AIFS) reports on young people + porn 

Erika Lust’s work on ethical porn (focus on consent, diverse bodies)

Pleasure Mechanics – “The Porn Literacy Project” https://thelightproject.co.nz/2-2-building-critical-thinking/the-p-o-r-n-literacy-tool/

Sexual Health Victoria – resources on porn and relationships https://www.shvic.org.au/student-activity/pornography-whats-the-harm/

SHINE SA – Porn & Sexual Health resources - https://shinesa.org.au/

THE YEP PROJECT  https://theyepproject.org.au/resource/sex-and-technology/pornography/

Podcasts / media

“The Pleasure Principles” – ABC Australia

“Sex and Psychology” – Dr Justin Lehmiller (episodes on porn research)

 Rena Malik, MD podcast 

ABC series – You Can’t Ask That, S7 Porn Stars – ABC iView

Other

SHIPS psychology – What you need to know about porn https://www.shipspsychology.com.au/blog/what-you-need-to-know-about-porn

SHRIMPTEETH – How to talk to your pals about porn: https://shrimpteeth.com/blog/how-to-talk-to-your-pals-about-p0rn

“Pornography and women’s sexual pleasure: Accounts from young women in Australia” - by Dr Sarah Ashton, Dr Karalyn McDonald & Dr Maggie Kirkman

“What does “pornography” mean in the digital age? Revisiting a definition for researchers” - by Dr Sarah Ashton, Dr Karalyn McDonald & Dr Maggie Kirkman


We are your co-hosts, Dr Shyamini and Nurse Ellie, and this, is For Goodness Sex xx

SPEAKER_00

Hello, my name is Shamani, and I am a co-host of the podcast for Goodness Sex. I am a Fijian Indian woman of immigrant parents and am proud to live, work, and play on Wajakanyunga country. This podcast acknowledges the past, present, and future traditional custodians of stolen country and the impact this has had on the health and well-being of our Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander brothers and sisters. Sovereignty was never ceded.

SPEAKER_02

Hi team. Now, whilst we are healthcare professionals, this episode is for informational purposes only, and it does not replace personalized healthcare advice. Your health is unique to you. If you have healthcare concerns, please seek out your local health professional. Nailed it. Nailed it. Nailed it. Nailed it. Absolutely nailed it. Thank you, babe. Thank you. Sometimes I'm like, God, it's easier to go home and rub on our.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, just have a mouse and go to bed. You know, and there's nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_02

Hi, hello, and welcome. We are your co-hosts, Dr. Charmani and Nurse Ellie.

SPEAKER_00

And this is for goodness sex. Welcome back to part two. Welcome back to part two. Porn. Porn, part two. Yep. So in our previous episode, we talked um about what porn is, um, types of porn, brain chemistry, pornisms, and whether porn is an addiction or not, which it isn't. But we did talk about distress and functional impairment. But now you're gonna delve into that a little bit more, aren't you? Yeah, I think we are. Crack on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So I guess, yeah, we we've established that porn can impact us in many ways. Okay. So as I said at the start of part one. Episode one. Episode one. We're not here to shame or glorify porn. Okay. There's positives and negatives, there's nuance, so we're gonna explore all of them. Okay. Um so I'm I'm gonna start with some some positive impacts of porn. Okay. So I guess, you know, porn, it it can help some people to feel normal about their bodies. All right. Um, and it can also, I guess, help people to explore what they desire, what their preferences, and to discover kinks and things that they're interested in. Okay. Um it porn does normalize diverse sexual interests. Um and at times it can like support self-exploration and freedom. All right. Self-explosion. Yes, it supports self-explosion. Sorry, it supports self-exploration and freedom. And freedom. Okay, great. Yeah. Um it can obviously increase pleasure, as we spoke about, you know, it's something there that it is is meant for entertainment, it's meant to arouse, excite, and inspire us, I guess. So it can help to increase pleasure, like alone and with partners, and we'll get into that more later. Um and this is also something interesting that that that I stumbled upon.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

unknown

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_02

Maybe a no more wine for me, sorry. That I stumbled upon. Um and again, this is this is multi-layered, but it it can help people with past trauma to reconnect with pleasure in a in a controlled and safe way. Oh, really? Well, okay. You know, I guess you know, someone with with sexual trauma, be building up into that, it allows them to reconnect with pleasure. You know, firstly, if they're not maybe ready to do that with someone else, they can do it.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, what would would watching porn potentially re-traumatize? So that's why I was saying it's multi-level. So yeah, that's also in the negatives. That's also negative potential. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Again, yeah, pros and cons. There's so yeah, two things can be true. Um it can inspire new ideas and new conversations between you and partners. Okay. There there is there is positives to porn. You know, there absolutely is, okay. Um, and we're also aware of the negatives, and again, this this this comes down a lot to to how it's done and how it's consumed. Yeah. Yeah. There's so many factors, okay. Um, but yeah, there's also negative impacts of porn, okay. So um for I'll just refer to my stats, Charmani, which I thought you would love. I love stats, I'm so aroused.

SPEAKER_03

I thought you would be.

SPEAKER_02

Um so yeah, look, uh a 2024 meta-analysis of 41 studies, which involved over 7,000 participants, found a negative correlation between porn use and sexual satisfaction, especially for women.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. And what was do you know what sexual satisfaction was defined as?

SPEAKER_01

No, I'm so sorry. That's okay, that's okay. That's all right, that's all right.

SPEAKER_02

We'll delve into that later. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um I guess. Oh, hang on. What have I got here? So content analysis studies show that mainstream heterosexual porn often depicts aggression towards women without showing consent or aftercare. Okay, so these are the these are the concerns, okay? Especially because large, largely across Australia, surveys have shown that many young people, as we discussed before, don't receive proper like sexual education and education around consent, and therefore they're getting it from media and from porn. So this this is the the issue. You know, is the issue porn? You know, some of it, yes. The issue is also lack of education and lack of and how it's delivered and the regulation around it and the content. Yeah. Exactly. Um so yeah, what we know um how porn can negatively impact us is it can create these unrealistic expectations about bodies, about performance and pleasure, as we spoke about in our pornism. It can give you heal anxiety. It can give you heal the heel anxiety was always there. Okay, it was a good thing. Thanks, Russell. Love you, Dad. Um yeah, make people critical of their own bodies and their own experiences. Um it can shape arousal patterns, which we've talked about in the brain, um, and can sometimes make partnered sex harder, which we'll get into a bit more later. Okay, it can reinforce like radicalized stereotypes and power dynamics, which as we've sort of touched on, that a lot of mainstream studio porn can be aggressive and degrading towards aphabs and women. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so it can sometimes lead to preferring porn over sex. So yeah, which I could kind of imagine. I can um I can sort of what we were literally just discussing off air, my sex life. Um whereas sex with someone else is often linked to stress and anxiety, mismatched desire. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, sometimes I'm like, God, it's easier, just go home and rub on our mouse and go to bed.

SPEAKER_01

You know, and there's nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_02

Um it's just yeah, something to be aware of, you know. Um yeah, and then the other point, the last point was was that it can it can increase or decrease libido. So again, yeah, yeah, I guess it's complex. Multilayered. And I I have a story from one of my clinicians at work who um had a young, a young boy come in, or young teenager, I guess, come in for SDI testing, and at the very end of the consult, he was like, Oh, like I've also got um I've got I guess she was like, any questions? And he was like, Yeah, you know, one question, you know, I've just got a problem. Like, um so so like when when I ejaculate, um, it doesn't, it doesn't like it doesn't shoot across the room. And um I'm am I gonna be able to have kids? I'm really concerned. Oh yeah. Yeah. So it's like this is what I mean. This is what porn is teaching us, you know. That's not okay. Um that that's normal.

SPEAKER_01

Please don't shoot your load across the room. I just cleaned.

SPEAKER_02

You know, yeah. So it it really does um it really does impact us on what we think is is normal. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Good on that person for saying something proud of him.

SPEAKER_02

That's huge. I know. It's awesome. It's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, and another interesting negative, which I again can be taken both ways. So um I guess porn could either um I want to say stimulate, but I feel like that's the wrong word. It could like um arouse? Uh uh I mean like a conversation with a partner. Yeah. Okay. So like I guess maybe porn could bring about conversations about desire with a partner, you know, where it it it um I think stimulate's not a bad word.

SPEAKER_00

It stimulates conversation, maybe engagement, maybe connection potentially. Um that's what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_02

But then I guess something else when I was looking at my research is that it could become a proxy for communication, like avoiding these conversations about desire, which I didn't think about. I don't know. Whereas like using using porn use instead of instead of taking that desire to your partner and uh and unpacking it together, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, but is that so you you talk about porn together? You consume porn together, is that what you mean? Versus like not taking the sexual desire to the partner?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I guess that's like I was originally like, oh, if you have these discussions with your partner, it could open up a safe space to talk about your desires. Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But then yeah, when I was doing my research, it it was once again as as funny, so a lot of the positives also kind of like were in the negative comment. But yeah, it sort of said that people could use porn as a way to avoid that conversation with their partner, so they access that desire alone with the porn and they don't bring it to their partner at all. So it's like a proxy to communicate. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does make sense, yeah, yeah. So yeah, I guess porn obviously differs from partnered sex, true, and we touched on this before. So there isn't any physical touch or emotional connection when if you're accessing porn alone and masturbating. Um so it's lacking that. But at the same time, I guess you don't need to consider somebody else's pleasure. Yeah, that's a good point. And you're in complete control. Yeah you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you see how it can be an easy option. Oh totally, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um yeah, and I guess the other thing I wanted to discuss was like if you're emotionally present with yourself during masturbation with porn. You know? Yeah. Which I'm not sure. It's a tricky one. It is tricky, it's a tricky one. Because I feel like the times that I've been like, no, I'm just gonna use my imagination or use my mind or use past experiences to have a Maz at h at home, and then I find that scenario always so much more rewarding and the orgasm's so much better than if I were to watch porn. But then sometimes I'm just like, I'm I've gotta get to bed, I've just gotta get up early, I'm tired, I'm lazy. I'm just gonna rub on out and go to bed.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. You know? I think um I certainly know of people who've said that they can't masturbate without porn, like it gets to a point where that's the only connection that they can have, which I think, you know, when we touched on our first episode about the dopamine um seeking, but i I think it's tricky because um I I I doubt you can be totally so I guess the question is can you focus on the physical sensation of masturbating irrespective of what you're seeing or consuming? And you know, are there people out there that masturbate without visualizing, without listening, without like so you know, where where's the are you just focusing on the sensation? True. Or are you needing to imagine something in your brain or listen to something or consume? And so Yeah, and I'm curious whether some people might be like, I want to masturbate, but I need the visual stimulus, and so I need the porn or I need the you know the audio or whatever. And can you focus on the sensation of masturbating irrespective of that? Which I think we're gonna we'll do an episode on masturbating because I think it'd be really interesting. But um, yeah, maybe that's the disconnect that people can have.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. So interesting. Um cool. Okay, so then yeah, I guess impact of porn like in relationships as well. So as we've spoken about before, it can, you know, in a partnership it can inspire you and bring about new ideas. Um but yeah, it can also bring about those negatives, which is like maybe a difficulty becoming aroused with your partner. Yeah. You know, so we've we've we've already spoken about this where if we're used to a certain kind of stimuli, it might be hard then to to become aroused with our partner, you know? Um and yeah, viewing a partner as an object as well, especially for our young people that are viewing porn, it's a concern. Okay. And again, the feeling the pressure to perform from all genders, from everyone, I think that porn can really influence that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I certainly think the other thing that I see in you know interpersonal relationships, I would say largely in a heterosexual context, is that there's this jealousy or this um uh impact on self-esteem that some people will say, well, um, but particularly women, um, heterosexual women will say, well, I really don't like my partner consuming porn because I'm here and available and it makes me feel less than. Um, which is kind of like an added social layering, right? Because the the perhaps in this hetero heteronormative heterosexual context, perhaps sex for men is uh different, you know, in terms of like purely physical, maybe I'm you know, there's it's there's lots of men that also need emotional connection and it's it's not a one-size-fits-all, but I think certainly uh people aren't able to have the conversation of like what sex actually means. Yes, and then what porn actually means and the significance of that. And I certainly see a lot of that, like this deeply um deep sadness that this these people are like, I why would he do that when um I'm here? Wow. Yeah, and and you're desiring and getting off on other people. Yeah, yeah. And it's like a a judgment passed on themselves. Rather than yeah. Rather yeah. So interesting. But then they but the partner might also just be like, not at all. Like that's not what I think at all, but that's kind of what the action is being perceived. Um so interesting. Some people view it as like actual like cheating.

SPEAKER_02

Cheating, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Which is yeah, it's so yeah, it's so interesting, I guess. Um, because I mean, I guess in some couples there there is a um a mismatch in libido. Or maybe this match, yeah, mismatch in in um sexual desire, or yeah, and um also like a mismatch in schedules. I'm sorry. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry. But yeah, I guess yeah, some people might think, oh, like love the idea of their partner getting off watching porn. I know, not happy for them. Yeah. Um some people, yeah, might view it as cheating. I guess some people, yeah, maybe feel like again, again, it brings in what do they have that I don't think it's very layered. It's so layers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

When it it might just be something quite innocent in the other person's mind, you know, in terms of this is not that that are viewed as cheating, but I think it's not uncommon for people to view porn consumption as cheating. I do think it does happen quite a bit.

SPEAKER_02

No, I no, I agree with you. I was just reflecting on my own. Um, I I agree with you. I I've never yeah, I was just reflecting on on how I feel about that, and I guess it recircles back to like the I guess the like energy exchange and the um again like how much it takes to have sex with someone. I guess even someone you love, yeah. You know, like I'm aware of all of that. So um and I'm aware of how busy people are. So if if my loved one is you know, rubbing one out and I'm not there, good for them.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but even some people find that problematic. Yeah. But they're masturbating I mean, we we can certainly go into it, but you know, masturbating the absence of their partner can also be problematic. Use of toys is also problematic. You know, I don't um I've certainly had people say, I don't I don't want uh my partner doesn't want me to bring a toy into the mix because they want to be the one to give me the orgasm. I know, right? So I mean it's really difficult because, you know, like just because um you use you masturbate without them or you use a toy doesn't infer any sort of um emotional relation to to the relationship that you're in, right? And in fact, it's quite empowering, I think, for people to be able to have sexual exploration and not feel like they can't have an orgasm because they're insisting that their partner wants to give it to them. Well, exactly.

SPEAKER_02

And it comes down to the to the same belief that, you know, this one person has to be everything for us and has to give everything to us, and nothing else can compare, you know. And it's it's just simply not the case. And it's like again, we we are our own person. Um you know, before that and after that. Yeah. You know, and also sometimes it can be a really gorgeous self-love thing, you know, like an act of self-love and and like self-um, what's the word, like honouring, yeah, you know? So 100%. Yeah, it's it's so interesting. And I've even had like discussions with partners where like, you know, sometimes you can have really kinky, fun sex um with a with someone you've just met, right? But um once you really know someone, you really know them and you really love them, um it it can make it harder to then have that kind of sex with them. It's like, well now I love you and your soul, so I must protect you at all costs. Yeah and I'm not gonna violate you in that way.

SPEAKER_03

You know. So it's complex. So it is super complex. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Often the ones that like we love the most, we can find it hard to to I don't know, yeah, access that side of protection.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I I think the other thing, the reflections I have is where do we stretch this perceived moral compass, you know, with the um rise of um like smart essentially, you know, reading smart and you know we've all seen the carriage scene in Bridgeton. Um, so do you do you know, where does that like there's a lot of women that that get pleasure of of reading those things, and so are they also cheating on their own. But you know, so where do we where do we draw the line? You know, and I think that this is where it becomes problematic. Yeah. And I think we should certainly be having more conversations about it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I can I guess that's the point. Talk to your partner, um, talk about what what you're comfortable with and what you're not. I guess every relationship is different. So yeah, I mean, I guess that leads perfectly into the next the next little bit. So I guess, yeah, talking talking to your partner's about porn. Let's open up that conversation. Yeah, hundreds of things. Um it can be scary, I know. Um, but just do it. It's important, just do it. Yeah, um, yeah. So I guess like important, you know, you could bring up with your partner, you're out on a date night, whatever, had a glass of wine. Like, can we chat about what kind of porn we each enjoy? Scary, I know, but maybe or like have you ever watched porn? Like, have you ever watched porn since we've been together? What kind of porn have you watched? Maybe watch it together. I don't know. Just open up the combo, figure it out, figure it out. Yes. Um and you know, like, does porn ever influence what you want during sex? Like, have you ever seen something on porn that you want to try? You know, you just never know. You never know. Um and yeah, maybe a good conversation is like, how do you feel about watching porn alone? How do you feel about watching porn together? I don't know. I've never watched porn with a partner, I don't think. I don't think just heated rubber we can. But yeah, I guess um, yeah, just just just open up for that combo. You might be surprised and you might both really enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you might.

SPEAKER_02

Who knows?

SPEAKER_01

Who knows?

SPEAKER_00

So, did you want to have a chat about porn and the law?

SPEAKER_02

I did. So I guess I mean, the reason this is like especially relevant right now is because as of March 9th, 2026, this year, Australia introduced new laws around porn. Were you aware of this? I actually wasn't. Okay, so it introduced strict age verification rules for adult content. So what that means is most sites now require um that you put in your ID to verify that you're over 18, and it also requires like a face scan to Oh wow. Yeah, to to verify that you are over 18 so that you can access this content. Um it was aimed, I guess, to reduce early exposure. Like obviously, so so people under 18 accessing porn. Um but it has raised many, many questions, I guess, about privacy, surveillance.

SPEAKER_03

It's like pretty scary.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's pretty scary. Scary. Um so yeah, it is it is quite it is quite topical and and and quite interesting. Um I what do you think about the band? So first of all, I was like, what the hell? If I can give you my porn, and also I don't want to show like I'm not gonna put my face and my ID in absolutely not. Um and then what I said earlier, I was like, I'm actually really glad that this happened because it forced me to be a little bit more experimental and not just rely on the usual stuff, and I was like, I'm actually kind of glad that this happened. Um but yeah, it's again, it's a it's a it's a complex issue. Yeah. Um yeah, like does this reduce harm or does it just simply shift behaviour, right? Um they're probably gonna find it one way or another. Um, and yeah, regardless of the law, it's it's porn literacy that is the most like powerful tool that we have. Um but what what did you have about porn?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I was just gonna say, I think it just um that what you've just described kind of reflects Australia's um legal stance on porn in general, which is actually kind of a bit of a weird hybrid. So we have like, you know, what we call like a liberal Western democracy, but we also have a restrictive state. So it's legal on paper, but illegal almost everywhere in practice. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, in terms of um I guess like Australian classification, broadcasting. So films get rated G through to R18 plus. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, to our international listeners. Um and pornographic film gets its own category, X18 Plus. Um and then anything that doesn't fit that gets like a refused classification. So it's illegal to sell, exhibit, or distribute anywhere in the country. Okay. But the twist is X18 plus films can legally only be sold or exhibited in the ACT in the Northern Territory. The two federal territories, not in the six states. So this is, I guess, different to the uh like online porn kind of um perhaps. Um but yeah, it's um so all the other states ban the sale and exhibition of X18 plus material outright, even though it's a legally classified category. So the Australian broad uh Australian Classification Board has categorized porn as its own category, X18 Plus, therefore legally able to um produce and sell. Okay. But that is only done in practice in the Northern Territory and the ACT, but the rest of the states will ban the sale and exhibition. Ah okay. Yeah, yeah. Sure. Bit of a quirk for us um because we tend to do this. It's a bit like sex work. Yeah, yeah. I was just gonna say what's new. I don't say what's new. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um so yeah, the weird thing is Canberra used to be the only place that we could get porn for a while. Okay, hilarious. The porn capital.

SPEAKER_02

Hilarious!

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um so there's the classification guides, obviously, um, but they're actually kind of more strict than people would expect. Okay. So this part may be more surprising. Um, but even fully consensual, non-violent adult content often can't get classified at all. Interesting. So they're in the refused classification um to content involving fetishes, which broadly, which we'll get into in another episode. But even body piercing, spanking, candle wax. Yeah, any violence even when unconnected to a sex act. So there was a um, like for example, a Pirates of the Caribbean porn parody was reportedly banned over its fight scenes rather than its sex scenes.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my god, stop it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and then of course anything um read as depicting adults as minors, so school uniforms and things like that. Um so because of this, a large share of even ordinary mainstream pornography would be a leg would legally be um this refuse classification in Australia if anyone tried to classify it. So most producers don't even bother. So it's really, really quite complicated.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it is. I have no idea.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so you know, it's it's got its own category, but that's only done in practice in the ACT in the Northern Territory. Everyone else thinks it's terrible, we're not gonna do it. Um, and then even non-sex related things like fight scenes in a porn parody are enough to be and refuse classification. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. Um they are kind of looking at some reforms though. Um so looking at uh loosening some of these restrictions, um perhaps exempting non-commercial amateur content from classification entirely, um, and easing the fetish and violence rules, which may be controversial in itself. Interesting, hey? It is so interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so I guess moving on from what you were saying, this e-safety commissioner and the 2025-2026 age verification rollout, right? Um it's actually become an international reference model. Um it was done under the Online Safety Act of 2021, um, which basically gave power to order Australian ISPs um to D-list or block sites hosting X18 plus or RC material. So that's the lead-on from the classification that I just mentioned. Okay. Okay. Um So since late 2025, Australia has been rolling out a genuinely comprehensive industry code base age verification regime. Yeah. Yeah. So as of March 2026, the IM18 click-through button is explicitly no longer sufficient. Yes. The penalties.

SPEAKER_02

Which is also always kind of funny. Yeah, it is kind of funny.

SPEAKER_00

Like when you enter an alcohol site as well. Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. Um but the penalties run up to roughly forty-nine point five million dollars per breach. This is dramatically steeper than the US, interestingly, even though it's not a good thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, I know.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

So apparently, yeah, I know. So apparently there is a um a uh sort of um privacy design principle that the government itself doesn't collect or hold verification data, apparently. Um apparently. Apparently. Allegedly. Allegedly. Um So Australia's approach kind of spreads the obligation across the whole thing. So device makers, app store, search engines, um rather than single websites, which are done sort of in the UK and um the EU, essentially. Um it's complicated, basically. Believe it or not. Yeah, believe it or not. And um, you know, in the world of AI, which is not really in line with this this podcast at all. But yeah, of course, it's scary to have your face scanned and put all that stuff in. Um but it is trying to, I guess, um restrict younger people to access porn, which again we can it's a whole other ballgame. Exactly. Yeah. Um there there's some really hard legal points to consider, which I think are uh certainly appropriate. Um although it's unusual, apparently, for Australi Australia's takes an unusual approach, even though I think it's probably not unreasonable, is a z zero-tolerance approach to child sexual abuse material. And uh this extends to fictional depictions. So there was a case in 2008 which upheld a conviction over a sexualized cartoon parody of the Simpsons characters on the reasoning that fictional characters can still count as a person under the law. This is broader than most comparable countries. Yeah. Complicated, eh? So we're just like zero zero zero zero, even in the context of fiction. Yeah. And then the other thing to consider is revenge porn or non-consensual distribution is a standalone offence in every state and territory except Tasmania. Can't explain why in Tasmania. So they're two very hard line laws for us. So just to summarise the law for us is that even though the Australian um classification board has porn in its own official category, not every state and territory will honour that. That's pretty good. And yeah, and they will um put it in a refused classification, but the refused classification can be quite ambiguous when it might be also related to inadverted commas, harmful things not related to to porn and sex itself. Um and we have a um, you know, with this online kind of presence with the e-safety commissioner and age verification rollout is getting complex with AI verification, even though there's a third party that's being used. Obviously, there's sensitivities around that. Um the penalties are hugely punitive. Um but we are very hard line with child sexual abuse material, even in fictional depictions, and obviously revenge porn. So that's sort of the main takeaway from Australian law.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, amazing. Okay, thank you. Thank you for covering that. No worries. Yeah, as I said, I could we could go into this for for so long.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's it's just bizarre because it's like don't make it legal then. Like you know, like being legal on paper and illegal in practice just doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense, it doesn't make sense. Yeah, and it's a bit like sex work in WA. Okay, I was just gonna talk about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I was I was like, don't get into it. No, let's not get into it. But I'm just gonna get into it. Just a little bit. Please, please, please. Because I guess, yeah, this is the issue, right? It's like it's something that so many people access, and so there again, there's so much stigma um around sex work and around, say, like adult content creators. And as you've already discussed, Charmani, about how things have changed over the course of the years where now people are allowed to are able to create their own content and be marketers and business owners. Yes, yes, yes. Do their own thing, you know. I think there's um there's uh there's so much stigma and misconceptions around sex workers and adult content creators, you know. One that they're stupid, you know. False. Um false. So false. So false. Um two that they're on drugs. False. False, false.

SPEAKER_00

False, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Three, that they're broken. False. Also, God. We're all broken. We're all broken. I'm sorry, no, but do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And then three, um, sorry. You've actually four. Four, I'm getting excited. Four that um these people are doing this because they have no choice or because they're forced into it. False. And that's just not true. Um these people, as I said, they're sexual athletes and they're good at what they do and they they they love it. Yeah, yeah. And what I gathered from from doing my research and listening um to this people in the in in these communities, and and again, I I'm not necessarily talking about like me mainstream porn studios, but maybe the more um indie, the more private the I don't know, the the other adult content creators. Like anything counterculture, it it it just they're a family, yeah, and they love each other and they they're bonded, and you know, it it just it warmed my heart a little bit. You know, I was just like, these are again, it's just something that is so heavily stigmatized that people don't understand. Yeah. And I guess like anything, porn is, is again, um, it's capitalist, right? So like unfortunately, mainstream porn, like what sells, sells in this capitalist society, which would be like, I don't know, your your stepmum stuck in a washing machine or whatever it is, you know, who knows? You know, right. Niche. But it's niche. But um, I guess that there are so yeah, leading into what I want to talk about, which is ethical porn, which does exist. Okay. So there are these these companies that are that women-led or that um uh are uh led by the the content creators themselves that um have fair pay and they they do discuss boundaries before and you know it it can be um a really a really lovely experience, yeah. Um so yeah, I'm I'm gonna get into that. Please. That's okay before we wrap this up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, there is ethical porn out there, and so you might be thinking, ethical porn, what the hell does that mean? So I guess ethical porn um it encourages listeners to look for porn that um shows enthusiastic consent, okay? Where I'm talking that we're using diverse bodies and identities, okay. Um it it it prioritises like safety and autonomy over anything else. It's made by independent creators where um, you know, this can be an art form in certain ways, you know. This can be art expression, this can be, as we've spoken about before, when done right, um it it truly can can be an an expression of art. Um it includes communication, negotiation, and aftercare, okay, which we love. We love. We love um it's transparent about production practices, so a lot of ethical porn sites often have an interview with the with the people involved beforehand and get to know them. It's quite nice. Um sorry, I've I've written fairy pay. Sorry, fair pay.

SPEAKER_01

I would love to be paid by fairy. That's so funny.

SPEAKER_02

But yeah, I guess it helps people um like make informed choices about what they want to watch, true, what they want to consume. So I've got a whole list of recommendations here. I'll run through a few of them, but all in the show notes. So um Balessa is one of them. It's um I I actually really enjoy Belessa. You can it's a yeah, I I enjoy that you do get to like meet the performers first and sort of get to know them. And I don't know, you've got to weed through some of it, but some of it involves like I don't know, just normal things like kissing and talking and like those funny moments that we're talking about during sex. Okay. So Erica Lust and X Confessions, so really well known ethical porn creator. Um Pinklabel.tv, um, so is known for their LGBTQIA plus inclusive adult content. All right. Um Lustery, so this showcases authentic sexual intimacy between real life partners, which is nice. Um there is so Shammi, this one's for you. You might already know, I don't know. Feel good filth.

SPEAKER_03

Oh!

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, which is highly rated audio erotica. Okay, we love audio erotica. Um yeah, there's there's there's heaps more. So Dipsy, Fry Like Me, Make Love Not Porn, Cheeks, Girls Out West, Horny A S M R. Stunning. Yeah. We'll put this, we'll put this all in the show notes. But um, yeah, I guess there's like there's so many options out there. True. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um and I think you've really like girls are reflecting on the ethical porn side of things. And I think you know, if we aren't going to vilify porn and which we don't want to necessarily, and we want to destigmatize it, we want to also use it for the greater good. And I do think it it might be a harsh line, but I do think porn has a responsibility to educate the masses on these ethical principles of consent and um non-violent kind of porn and things like that. And uh you mentioned before like what sells sells, and it's disappointing to know that that's what sells, but I'm hopeful of a movement towards something that just everyday life and sex is what sells eventually. And that's what we kind of want. And I do think that the porn industry has a lot of power and potential in this space, fully acknowledging that these things are business models. But I'm hopeful, like I really do think that it would be nice to if this is where people are accessing their education, let's just make it good.

SPEAKER_02

No, honestly, and yeah, and you're right, and yeah, you're you you're completely right. There is a responsibility here, and I think you're also right to be helpful. I'm always helpful. I think you're right to be helpful. You're right to be helpful, you're right to be hopeful. So I think there there is a shift, and yeah, although yes, you know maturing MILFs is still, you know, one of the top searches in Pornhub. But but in 2025, so Pornhub Insights do uh sort of a almost Spotify wrapped. Okay, so you can access Pornhub Wrapped online. Okay. 2025 lesbian and trans lead and LGBTQI plus content was top category. Wow. First and second top, yeah. I hope that means good things and not bad things. But anywho, um but w what is being showed is that there is more diversity that's coming across. Um and I I I think you're right, Shamini. I think like anything, things are evolving. There is, you know, more of this ethical porn out there, and um you know, that's what we can hope for.

SPEAKER_00

The other thought I had was maybe it's not a good thing, but like do you think that because porn is accessed in private, that is this a a fetish, a fetish type of situation where a lot of um maybe heterosexual people are wanting to fetishise the queer community in the world?

SPEAKER_02

So that's what I was concerned about. I was like, I hope that this is I hope so too. I hope that this is yeah, so yeah, when I when I found those statistics specifically, so I went through Australia and all the countries um and when I was looking at yeah, US um and like Latina and top categories, I was like, interesting. Yeah, very interesting. Yeah, as much as I'd like to sit here and think that it was um, you know, queer and gender diverse people that were accessing this. I'm like, I I'm I'm pretty sure it's probably not. So therefore, yes, are we um like if I were to watch those bin porn, right? Which in mainstream media is is is is largely problematic because it's it's it's it's meant for the the the cis straight man, right? But it's so far from what queer sex actually is, okay? It's so far. There's no butchers, there's no non-binaries, there's no, you know, it's too like very femme, you know, which I'm not you know, it's it's but it basically it's produced exclusively for for the cis men for cis men to create us as a fantasy so that they can because they're so scared of being gay themselves, right? That they have to watch porn that there's no risk of them seeing their own genitalia at all. God forbid that that makes them gay, you know. It's like they're exploiting, they're they're bet they're profiting off us queers, um at the same time as as like while preying on homosexual fear. So it's yeah, it's a whole thing.

SPEAKER_00

Um I certainly know that like my conversations with Naya have been similar, where she gets so fetishized. Yeah, and it's like she didn't ask for that, she's just trying to exist. Exactly. You know? And so I think yeah, it's tricky because then just reflecting back on the fantasy chat we had in the first part of this, like arguably is this a fantasy that they're allowed to to sort of arguably it's a fantasy.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. I mean, where do we like do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00

Like where do we I I exactly I totally agree with what you're saying, but is this a fantasy that they have? Yeah, that they want to uh I don't know. Like, where do you draw the line, right? It's it's hard. It's really, really hard.

SPEAKER_02

So hard, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I think it just really demonstrates that sex is complicated. Yeah, as is porn, everything's complicated.

SPEAKER_02

I just like Again, I guess there's nothing wrong with those fanities. I just I guess be respectful. Hundred percent. 100% I agree, yeah. Yeah, I agree. I guess, yeah, and I I want to see like authentic, joyful representations of queer sex and diversity, you know. Um in a heterosexual context too.

SPEAKER_00

All across the case. Yeah, all across.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Like we haven't even I I didn't even let myself go down the rabbit hole of in cells and like let's not say, but we'll say that for season three. But yeah, exactly. I I think that like authentic representations for all important is is is what we strive for. We want authenticity. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00

Even if it doesn't sell, we have to make it sell.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

We really do. Yeah. Because it's it's affecting it the greater community.

SPEAKER_02

It is. And I think like, yeah, it's I know it's sometimes it can be frustrating sort of ending up in this grey area where we're like don't really have a stand. You know, like it's like, ugh, we these two things can be true. But that's just that's that's fucking life.

SPEAKER_00

A hundred percent. That's life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I've got this really good tool which I'm gonna put in the show notes, this porn literacy tool, which I found. I think it's mainly meant for for youth and porn. Um, I found so many good resources to talk to to youths and and porn. So we'll put it all in the show notes. Um but yeah, I mean, as Shamani said, there's nothing wrong with you, you're perfect.

SPEAKER_00

And that's what you said. But the porn industry isn't perfect. The porn industry, yeah, yeah. But you are perfectly mainstream mainstream media altogether.

SPEAKER_02

It's all wrong.

SPEAKER_00

And you are simply a product of your circumstances, and you are doing what you can with what you're provided, and it's a confusing time and a confusing space.

SPEAKER_02

It's so confusing. Okay, someone once told me it changed my life. The first thought that you have, like, about something sometimes, is not your own thought, it's society's thought. And then the second thought that follows is how you actually feel. Sometimes. So say if you have like something you're like, you know, sometimes you find your own like internalized misogyny or internalized homophobia, or like sometimes something will just pop into your head and you go, What the fuck? That was crazy. I don't feel that way. I don't feel that way. That's society. The thought that follows is yours. So listen to that one. We blame society. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Obviously. Society has a lot to explain. Yes. Yes. But we're hoping we can change that.

SPEAKER_02

We persevere.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we persevere.

SPEAKER_02

Fuck. I think we did well.

SPEAKER_00

I think we did two. The only other recommendation I had was the um for our Australian listeners is the um ABC's You Can't Ask That series. And there is one on porn stars. So if you want to hear from porn stars, um they basically come on and and for international listeners, it's basically a show where people um write in questions about what they feel like they can't ask people. And so questions where they think they can't ask porn stars, and they'll they'll answer them honestly. Um in front of yeah, uh it's such a good series series.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, the the the resources list in this will be huge. Show notes will be huge. Yeah. But you know, and again, write in, write, let us know, text in. Um thanks for coming along with us on this journey. It was a challenging one, but I know the first person who sends us a voice note, I will kiss. Anyway, um in closing, yeah, porn isn't necessarily inherently good or bad, it is powerful. Okay, and when we understand how it works, we get to choose how it fits into our lives, our sexual lives, our relationships, and our pleasure. So, yes, porn has a huge responsibility, but maybe so do we. Wow. In terms of how to consume. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That was great. Oh my god, thank you. That was perfection.

SPEAKER_00

I loved that. I was like, oh my god. That's better than any summary I've ever given. Oh, please.

SPEAKER_01

And that's interesting. Okay, thank you so much, Joel. We're gonna go rub on out now. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. Oh, actually, no, sorry. I was gonna sorry, I was gonna that's the end of season two.

SPEAKER_00

That's not special guest coming up, I asked special guest coming up next for our final episode. Wow. Um so sad. But we'll be back and we'll we'll tell you more about that in due course. Um write us.

SPEAKER_01

Voice note us. Voice note us. Feedback is good. We love you. I love you. I love you.

SPEAKER_02

And Charmoni started to slowly lift up her charm as I gazed at her breasts.

SPEAKER_00

They are perfect, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, good guys, okay.

SPEAKER_03

Bye.

SPEAKER_00

For Goodness Sex is produced and edited by me, Dr. Charmani, with social media and visuals by Nurse Ellie. Special thanks to the Hen House Recording Studios for hosting our recording sessions, Louisa, our manager, Avesta for audio assistance, and Pari Sounds Fari for our podcast music. We welcome your questions, queries, and feedback as always, so send us a DM or follow the links in our show notes to leave us a message. We love to hear from you.