Mole Removal and the Vocal Objectification of Opera

Loottsss of ground covered!! How do we keep the joy in our singing? How do we stay out of the pitfalls of objectifying our own and each other's voices into oblivion? Is vocal pedagogy suffering at the hands of chasing "perfect" sounds? It's a big one!

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

So, you know, work life balance for me is work life singing. No, no, no, no. Camera be singing. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:33

I'm good. You're in Tech Week. I am.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Yeah. How's it going?

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Really happy about it, to be honest. It's probably one of the like, yeah, like Tech Week's hard in its own right. But this show and this cast, like, it has such a good energy. We're in the gondoliers.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

With uh the Gilbert and Sullivan Opera Company of Chicago.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

And it's been kick-ass.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

It's great.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Yeah. I'm not even gonna lie, like it's been so fun. Like, I just have the best time with the women's chorus. Like, everyone in there is just like such a gem and a doll, and like it's just been good energy. And like that's good. Not that it hasn't been that way in the past, but like you know, you ever just get the right like group of people together, you're like, oh yeah, we're on the we're on the same level.

SPEAKER_04 1:15

See, that's how the guys chorus felt like in Pirates last year.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20

With with Philip and and the guys. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

That's so nice. Holy hell. Yeah. That's crazy. That's like how we met IRL. Yeah. Pirates.

SPEAKER_04 1:28

Yeah, that's how we met in person. That's insane. Crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

And yeah. Now you're now you're busy with other things. You're about to be in tech.

SPEAKER_04 1:35

Yeah. Yep. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Holy hell. For carousel.

SPEAKER_04 1:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Crazy. Crazy. Dream show. Dream show. It's great. Like I can't wait to see that. That's gonna be fierce.

SPEAKER_04 1:47

Yep, it's been a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Um But yeah, no, tech's been good. Um, it's reminding me how work-life balance works, and like how do you do that? I think there's like an Instagram trend going around right now, or like, I don't even want to say a trend. You know, those little like um it's like the little white boxes, and it's like like uh like post if like you're working a nine to five during tech week right now. Like that's verbatim. Yeah, it's like those white boxes. Some of them are like post-to-pick of yourself when you were of your own.

SPEAKER_04 2:22

And then you like click it and then you pick you you yeah, I yeah, I've seen those.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Yeah. Lately I've been seeing that one. It's like post to pick if you're working a nine to five and in tech week, and like pretty much everyone in the cast has done it. And I'm like, oh, I like want to hop in and like I work nine to five hours, but I'm retail, so I'm like, I'm like, I'm not a nine to five, like that's fine.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

There you are.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

It feels like a nine, it is full time. Yeah. They should switch it to full time. I think you still be inclusive.

SPEAKER_04 2:47

I think you still call it a nine to five, though. Even if it's not actually nine to five, you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:53

They're probably 7 30 to 4 30 or whatever, you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Right. I'm just 9 45 to 5, so it's it's fine. Um but yeah, no, it's it's been really good. There's a lot of technical elements to this show, but I don't know. There's something about singing and dancing that really does it for me.

SPEAKER_04 3:13

That's funny.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

I love a dance heavy show. I know not everyone feels that way. Yeah. I love a dance heavy show.

SPEAKER_04 3:18

See, I've been dancing too for parous. Yeah, I'm kicking. I'm kicking and uh and ball changing. Yeah, kicking. I don't do any ball changes. That's that's that's beyond me. That's beyond me. I do grape fine. I do grapevine. But it's been a lot of fun. It's been a lot of fun. And it's like, you know, I'm in like two dance numbers, so I can like get those good, and I don't have to like be super tired and like have a good time. It's been fun. The dancing and singing is fun.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

You get it!

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 3:47

I'm not good at it, but it is fun. It is fun.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

And low-key, that's what I've realized the audience only cares about, you know. Like everyone's like, but I'm so bad at dancing. And then it's like, well, they just want to see you have fun, girl. Like it's okay, you know.

SPEAKER_04 4:00

Yeah, and there's always gonna be people that are good at dancing, you know, that are gonna make you look good.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:06

Like I'm always watching the good dancers.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Like You're like, okay, what fun is that?

SPEAKER_04 4:10

Yeah, and I'm not thinking about, you know, the other ones, because that's where I that's me.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Like, I know them.

SPEAKER_04 4:15

See, and I sort of thought, like, I don't know. I did I didn't like I knew I knew I would do the, you know, the If I Loved You, Soloquy, and The Highest Judge of All. Like, I knew I would do that. I'm like, I might do some of the chorus stuff. And uh you know, if like depending on how my voice is feeling, I might do I might like sing some of the choruses off stage. But other than that, I thought I was gonna be like Robert Goulet, like going out there, you know.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Yeah, Princess Graham.

SPEAKER_04 4:38

I'm like totally in this like you're like integrating the world the whole thing. And it's really fun. I really like that for big things. I do too. I do too. Yeah. And it's not it's not out of place. Like there's definitely there's there's numbers that I'm not in that like wouldn't make sense for me to be in. But the ones that it does make sense for me to be in, I I'm like totally in. It's great, like from the top to bottom. Even like some of them where it's like like big old dance number, a little bit of dialogue, big old dance number, where before I've seen like or in other like versions, I've seen him like come on, you know, yeah, like for the dialogue and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:13

Uh but yeah, I'm like fully in it and it's great. It's been fun.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

I almost feel like that makes more sense for Billy because it makes more like higher stakes when it's like, oh, he hits her, but like everyone knows him, and so it's like you know someone that is like shady like Alan.

SPEAKER_04 5:27

Yeah. And you get you get that in the show too. The like, you know, like the the guy that speaks at the graduation is like the county doctor, and he's like, I was there when when y'all were born. I delivered you, and now I see you here. And it's like super interesting, which is really funny. Like, oh my god, this this is like kind of embarrassing, but it's a fun. No what? It's so funny. So I went to the dermatologist in my hometown.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Okay, how recently?

SPEAKER_04 5:53

Uh this is like the end of summer, I think. Okay. Maybe like early August, something like that. But I so I went and I was like, like my mom made the I was like, I don't need to see a dermatologist, I'm fine. She's like, no, you're gonna go. I'm like, okay, fine. So she just made the she made the appointment for me, which was very nice.

SPEAKER_03 6:14

And I get to the dermatologist, and she's like, Yeah, I know your I know your grandpa, I know your grandma, I know your aunt. Like, I've seen your grandpa's moles, I've seen your mom's moles, I've seen your aunt's mold.

SPEAKER_04 6:29

It's just like it's just so fun. The the the life of a small town dermatologist is like so fun. So funny.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

She's cleaning out a mold. Yeah, I mean it was like it was just like it was just kind of like, you know, like I don't know, is that like supposed to be comforting? Like I wasn't like, I wasn't weird, like I wasn't off put by it.

SPEAKER_04 6:51

I I mostly just thought it was funny.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

But do you know my family line's mole shape?

SPEAKER_04 6:55

Yeah, yeah, no, it's like that you know, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

That's so beautiful. Were you good?

SPEAKER_04 7:02

I was good. I just bring you to come back and however long.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Okay, check on the shape.

SPEAKER_04 7:09

A few years or whatever, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

Oh, okay. Crazy. Crazy.

SPEAKER_04 7:15

That was totally off topic.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

That's okay. But no, like no, it's relevant.

SPEAKER_04 7:22

I got another funny story though, if you want to hear about it.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Well, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_04 7:26

Um, this is this is with work life balance. So, you know, work life balance for me is work, life, and singing. No, no, no, no. Work slash life equals singing slash driving.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Oh, okay. Yeah, okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 7:50

My commutes are so long, so long. Insane commutes. Yeah, at least two hours. I drive at least two hours a day. Somehow four hours when you're down to the house. More often it's three or four.

SPEAKER_03 8:02

Holy.

SPEAKER_04 8:02

But at least two every day. Yeah. Except Saturdays. I don't I usually don't have to drive on Saturday, but every other day of the week.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Literally insane.

SPEAKER_04 8:10

And I like driving, so it's not too bad, but it is like But it was like, you know, it's like I I like driving, I like listening to my podcasts and audiobooks and crap like that. And uh But I was like, I I was like, yeah, I like driving, so that's gonna be like my rest time. It doesn't work that way. No, even though I like it, it's it's and it's starting to catch up to me. I've been been tired. Yeah. It's hard to stay clear. So with that, I was driving to my church job that's like an hour away from where I live, right about. And I was running late, and I was like, you know what? I'm gonna make it to church on time today. Because I've been a few no exactly, exactly. And I was saying I was singing that on the way, and I was and I was driving on the expressway, everybody was going 80. I was going about 90.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Okay. No.

SPEAKER_04 9:07

I'm in the left lane. Okay, this car comes up behind me super fast. I'm like, okay, I think it's okay, I think it's one of those people that'll like tailgate you until you move over. So I move over, he moves over, it's a cop, flips on his lights, it's a cop. Yeah. So I get pulled over, and uh I'm like, here's my license. He's like, uh, is there any reason you're going so fast today? I'm like, officer, I'm just trying to make it to church on time.

SPEAKER_03 9:34

Which was which was real, which wasn't a lie.

SPEAKER_04 9:38

And uh he Don't tell me let you go.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Let me go.

SPEAKER_04 9:41

He let me go in the morning.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Girl.

SPEAKER_04 9:44

Yep. I wouldn't put a lot of it. But it was like it was like on the express, right? He was like, yeah, you know, the speed limit's 55, but everybody's going at least 80, and you know, you're going faster than everybody else. I'm like, okay, sure. Whatever. You know, get the people. Get the people that are blowing around me at 120. Let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

You should have seen the bitches back there. Like, you know.

SPEAKER_04 10:04

I'm not gonna go, I'm not gonna get into that.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

So you're like, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 10:09

No, it was nice. It was nice. Yeah, I really did. And he was like, Is this your address? I'm like, Well, I live here, but you know, I go down south a lot and I I drive up here for church.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

I'm driving four hours to go to church.

SPEAKER_04 10:23

Yeah, right. Well, because my yeah, my my my license place still has my parents' address on it.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:30

Well, I'll live part-time with my wife, part-time down there.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

Yeah, you know, like flexing the floor.

SPEAKER_04 10:36

I was just like, I was just talking.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

They like it though.

SPEAKER_04 10:39

He actually like he actually like kind of cut me off and was like, okay, well, that that's great. You have you have a good you have a good thing. It was like uh it was like a very interesting strategy that I think worked. You know, but I was just trying to be nice.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Keep that in your back pocket.

SPEAKER_04 10:54

And I saw a ton of people pulled over, so they were probably trying to like do something with that.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Oh, yeah. Well, what oh, yeah. Well, let's think about it, Kane. What time was this? Like how many days ago was this?

SPEAKER_04 11:07

Uh early last Sunday morning.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

It's the end of the month.

SPEAKER_04 11:12

The end of the month.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

They have to hit their quotas for tickets.

SPEAKER_04 11:16

But they didn't give me a ticket, so yeah, crazy.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Well, they were probably like, uh that's like fishing for them, probably. You know? I'm not law enforcement, I don't want to use, but it's like you catch one, but you're like, oh, this one has to live, and then they let it go.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

This one has to live.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

It's like lobster fishing.

SPEAKER_03 11:30

You catch a fish, and then it's like, oh, this one has a wife and kids.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

No, I'm like that. Well, that's something to do with lobsters. Like, kind of. If if you like, oh the preg they throw the pregnant ones back. They said, oh, this one's pregnant. Let it go.

SPEAKER_04 11:45

That's funny.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

That's what it is to you.

SPEAKER_02 11:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

But um, funny enough, oh, Philip and I got pulled over on the way to the Metcomp. Oh, really? I don't remember if I told you that, yeah. And I don't think I mentioned it in the MetComp episode, but um, we got pulled over on the way. Philip wasn't speeding that much. The problem was, you know how sometimes you're on a highway for a long time. But then the highway doesn't look like highway anymore, but the speed limit hasn't changed, and it starts to look like a road that goes through a town, but it's a very isolated road.

SPEAKER_04 12:16

Oh, yeah, those those like little bitty, like 300-person population towns that are like, you know, it's like a 55 road, and then all of a sudden it's 35.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Yes. But I know that's all too well. It was still like 50. But we were still going like highway speed, like 6570. Um and we it was so dark and there were no lights on this street that we weren't clocking the signs, and so we got pulled over. And um, he's like, I like it.

SPEAKER_04 12:42

Sandwich, Illinois, probably.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Mama, they love an out-of-state place. I have a pet.

SPEAKER_04 12:50

It's a real place. Just a small town. And they have a little sandwich speed. No, it's just like a small farm town.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

So for them. And you know what? Good for them. But um, yeah, no, like pulled us over, and he was like, Oh, like, when did you know how fast you were going? And Philip was like, No.

SPEAKER_04 13:08

That's good.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

He was like, Oh, like baby pop.

SPEAKER_04 13:11

And he was like, then they write admitted, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

And then it's easier for them to go with that. And then like, um, Philip was like, Oh, yeah, we're just like, we're driving. She she's in a singing competition, she's gonna do some singing this weekend, and he was like, Oh, okay, well, I'm gonna go run your peepy-blah. Comes back, he's like, You guys are good to go, like, have a good day. Like, didn't didn't even war do a warning, didn't do a ticket, didn't do nothing. Yeah, so it was very nice. I was like, I I sing, I sing, and and we're uh we're a beautiful couple, please leave us alone. Yeah, you know. Yeah, so it's it's it's rough out there.

SPEAKER_04 13:45

It's rough out there. You survive. The singers. Yeah, the singers versus the the singers versus the the cops.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Sorry. We have to be places on time. But yeah, no, the commute to um the theater is wildly different depending on traffic. It's like yeah. Like lately, like, you know, we're sitting around, putts around our butts, and Teddy's.

SPEAKER_04 14:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Beautiful, beautiful theater. It's in Mandel Hall. Um, people that aren't even in the Chicago area, like, know about how beautiful you Chicago is.

SPEAKER_04 14:19

Yeah, because it looks like Hogwarts.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like, even like as you're walking into the theater building, like to your right is like the Reynolds Club, I think they call it, and like that whole room just looks like a study room out of Hogwarts, and anyone could go in there, like the public. Like Philip and I went there and like putzed around and studied for a while.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Um, sometimes we even um this is a life hack for singers, also, I guess, but um, when there's really niche scores that Philip and I are looking for, and like our usual resources like don't really have them, we go to you, Chicago and we ask for like the guest pass type beat. I don't remember if it costs money or not. I cannot remember. If if if it did, it was like a small amount. And back when I was in grad school, free. Like you just say, like, oh, I'm a pee-pee boo-poo at DePaul, and then they're like, Oh, okay, great. And then you get your little pass and you go upstairs and you can poke through those scores. So, like, all of Philip's like niche baroque stuff, like sometimes it'll be like, Oh, like I need to go to Chicago like soon. Yeah, like, okay, let's go shopping in Chicago, like whatever. That's cool. Yeah, about the cute coffee shops, yeah, whatever. Yeah. Did you ever go see the Hollowed Grounds place upstairs? People go to there normally.

SPEAKER_04 15:29

I don't remember. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

It's like kind of Halloween themed, and there's pool tables.

SPEAKER_04 15:33

Yeah, no, I definitely didn't go to a coffee shop. I was always running late to there.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Yeah. So I remember like, well, even during intermission, people are like pulling over to um Prat of Manger or whatever, the Pret place, Pret with the sandwiches and stuff.

SPEAKER_04 15:48

Yeah, I didn't explore much for the city. Oh, I guess you're wow.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Well, when it's your first time, like I remember I didn't really poke around much my first time.

SPEAKER_04 15:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

I think it went to Pratt once, but it was like also it's been cool to be in the show because um some like about half the chorus was like in Pirates with us, but then like one or two people hadn't been in the shows since Pinafore, which was 2023. And so it's like, oh my god, I'm seeing my Pinafore people and also like my pirates people, and that's been like really nice. That's always nice. Not everyone knows. It is nice because um also that that stage can change in like so many different ways. And I was like, because I was talking with my friend Stephanie, who was in Pin uh Pinafore with me, and she was like, you know, everyone's been talking around this, talking about the passeral, like, and this whole time in rehearsal I've been like, what is that? Blah blah blah. And then and it's the same feeling I had in Pirates where I was like, What's the passerelle? What are they talking about? But then you see the U-shape and you're like, Oh, we didn't have the passerale for pinafore. It was removed. That big U-shaped strip.

SPEAKER_04 16:51

See, I just thought they were saying pass around. So I assumed it was like a thing that passed around the conductor and the orchestra, and I was right.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

And you were right.

SPEAKER_04 17:02

Well, because like like like if you say that the the passeral, you know, the passeral with with my accent, it sounds the same.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

So like same diff, whatever. Yeah, no, like it's because I also had no concept. I was like, what the f are they talking about? And like Marionora and Kant are like, the passerel, and like I just don't know what they're talking about. And like and I think more people that are new to the casts should feel empowered to be like, what are you talking about? But but then even when they explain it, they're like, it's a U shape and it's this. I still didn't understand.

SPEAKER_04 17:35

It's a platform that passes around the conductor.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

It's in the middle. I yeah, yeah, that's the conductor. Um so like also the orchestra sounds great. They they sound awesome. Good orchestra's great, yeah. Yeah, they were they were slaying. Um, and uh what did that have to do with the thing? Oh yeah, like I forgot that the shape of the stage was entirely different for Pinafore because they had removed that massive ass U-shape, and we didn't use the pit, like the traditional pit. The pit area was filled in with stage. Like, so it was just a big stage, and then the orchestra was like, you know how some places it's like there's the audience, and then the pit kind of s sits in front of the audience, which like kind of architecture for Centralia. Um that's how they had it for Pinafore. And so for pirates, I was like, what's going on in the screen? But it's that same setup for us this year.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

It's like the Pasparel.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

A lot happens on the Pasquerel. There's like dramatic crosses and like little running and dancing. Yeah, the women like basically like live there.

SPEAKER_04 18:41

So I'm excited to see it.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

When's the last time you've like come through the audience for an entrance? Oh well, I guess I can play for Phantom. Yeah, but that's like concert, so it's like oh my god, that's a good for a show.

SPEAKER_04 18:55

Yeah. When's the last time you've done for a show?

SPEAKER_01 18:59

We didn't have that for flute.

SPEAKER_04 19:00

Well, I do like goofy stuff in the round. I went into the audience for flute.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 19:06

I came down and I was like play I was like playing with the front row.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Yeah, that was cute.

SPEAKER_04 19:11

But like actually going in from the thing, uh did that for pirates. Um the first marriage of figure I did was like goofy, it was like sort of in the round. And for that I did, but it was like sort of in the round.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 19:28

Yeah, it was like in the thrust. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Okay. I never heard that one before.

SPEAKER_04 19:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Learn new things every day. Yeah. But yeah, you have more like school life balance now.

SPEAKER_04 19:50

Yep. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I and and teaching, so it's like, you know.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Oh, and teaching.

SPEAKER_04 19:55

It's your biggest picture. Like the work, work, life, work, life, play, teaching.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Friends.

SPEAKER_04 20:04

Friends. Life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

That's another one.

SPEAKER_04 20:07

Well, that stuff is that's I mean, that stuff is really nice. But I mean all all all of it, all of it is nice, but it's like, you know, I'm taking like singing jobs that are like, you know, you can't really call it it's paid, but you can't really call it like I'm going to work today, you know.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:23

And I teach and that's work, but I can't call it, oh, I'm going to work today. Yes. Got my church job and it still isn't the same. You know, but so like Yeah. So it um it's like I feel like I'm it feels like I'm not like it feels like I have no it feels like I'm I have no job and I'm like totally a bum, but it also feels like I'm working all the time. Yeah. You know? And they're all kind of that's so real.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

It's all kind of something you said has made me think of something I've like experienced lately and have experienced in the past, but more so I've noticed it lately because I've been leaning into this more. But like lately I've been really feeling the joy of music making. And I've been like acknowledging that that joy is important for me to uphold, and like I notice like when the joy isn't there, like that means I need to like rest or like take a break from it or step back in whatever way I need to, and then come back to it in the ways that I need to. Um, but I've realized that joy is important, and like I shouldn't have to feel like I need to hide it for the sake of um I remember I told you and all of you guys the story of like I was in the elevator with um someone in the Ryan Opera Center and I was and I was going up the elevator, just like geeked out that I was there, you know, not showing it too much, like being normal, but like in disbelief. And I was like, Oh, like how I was like, Oh, how are you? Like, blah blah blah. I'm not trying to be normal. That's hard for me. But um, I was like, Oh, like, how's it going? He and he looks exhausted, which is like fair because what we do is work. Like you said, it's work. But he's like, Oh, just another day at the office. And in my head, I'm like, oh

SPEAKER_04 22:00

But there are some people that um And that's legitimate and also the feeling of like come on you you arrogant asshole that is also legitimate.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 22:10

You know?

SPEAKER_01 22:11

Yeah. I didn't even think like, oh you're being arrogant. It was just like oh no, you're being bogged down by the not joy and the burnout that sometimes this industry like pops on you. I'm like, oh that's hard. So like I don't know. I think there is also like I think and I think we're all guilty of this to some degree. I think it's kind of baked into our culture a little bit because we're taught that things that are hard and take hard work, you have to suffer through them. And like you that suffering is like not a martyrdom, but like a like a badge you get to hold up to people. So sometimes I think we could be lighthearted and could have more joy in the process, but and sometimes there's real barriers that are actually making us stressed out, and we're like, oh god, how's this gonna work? But like sometimes people bring an energy into the space of like this is so hard, solely for the badge of like, oh, this is so hard. When really like we could be leaning into the like, oh my god, this is so fun. Like, wait, we like love this. This is like really fun. But some people choose to lean into the because they think there's more valor or like merit in that. But lately I've been leaning into like, oh, if we're just having fun, like we're just having fun. And then you can still do all the hard work, but you can be even like joyful in the hard work. I don't know. So corny boots, but no, for sure. And I'm like, oh guys, we can all have this. It's it's more fun when we do it like that.

SPEAKER_04 23:31

But I don't remember if I I I think I've told you this before, but I don't know if it was on the podcast or not. Like the difference between musical theater people and opera people that are at similar levels, you know, doing like like slight like s may what I would call maybe like semi-professional productions, or it's like you're getting paid, but it's not like a living wage at all. You know? Yeah. Um it's like opera people are like, I'm doing this, uh, and there's like, yeah, like, yeah, of course, like nobody's gonna say that I'm not like I'm doing this and I'm not having fun, but like a lot of it is like this is for my resume, this is for connection, this is to lead to other more professional things, and it's like there's there's this air of like like I'm doing this, I'm doing this for my own I'm doing this for my my own um my own uh career. Yeah. I'm doing the I'm doing this like a higher valor step in my career. Yes. Whereas musical theater people are doing the exact same thing, but they're like, oh, they're like But also when you look at the joy of it a little more. Well But they're they're not thinking about career.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:43

They're thinking about this is so f this is so fun, I'm so happy to be here making the thing that I get to make. And it's a different it's it's very it's very obvious to me now that I've done both at similar levels.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

You're so right though.

SPEAKER_04 24:56

You know, and it's like it's like those musical theater people, like they're doing they're doing profession, they're doing they're probably getting paid just as much, if not more, than the people doing like the young artist type of thing, you know.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:11

But it's like You're so right. Yeah, and I and I heard once, I think this was uh what is his name? His first name is Jordan. He's like on TikTok. He's like a teacher, not Jordan Pitts.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

No, I know. But I think I know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_04 25:30

Yeah, I've seen their kind of Yeah, so he said something I I heard that was like, you know, taking the financial stress off of your larynx.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 25:41

Felt that by having by having another stream of income.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Oh yeah, I saw that post literally a couple days ago.

SPEAKER_04 25:49

Yeah, yeah. And I mean that's like kind of his big thing, you know, is is how how do you not be how do you be an artist but not be a starving artist, you know.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:00

I think there's a lot of value in that, and I think musical theater people have kind of figured that out in a way that opera people haven't. Like opera people just get more degrees and and fly all over the country. Whereas musical theater people, it's also for the cloud of it all. Sometimes for the cloud of it all, and also like um part of it is that there's just not as many opportunities. Like if you could if you could do opera the same way you can do theater, like how you can work a job during the day and do theater, like if if you really wanted to, like you could you could work a nine to five job and do be booked in a show every single month. Yeah. In in theater, in in musical theater. Whereas opera, it's like you can you can be in your nine to five, but the amount of stuff that you can do after work for the joy of it is like, you know, I mean, in Chicago, like if you're lucky, you maybe get to do that a couple times a year.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 27:00

Without traveling to wherever to traveling or paying or both is that stuff. And yeah, Chicago is a metropolis of the arts.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

I think we get underestimated a lot. I think sometimes like New York people sometimes think, like, oh, like what scene is there in Chicago? And it's like, there's a lot going on here that you can be auditioning for or doing, even with a job. Because if I'm being honest, I will say I think opera is finally making progress in understanding that people need nine to fives in order to do it. Let's just get that out of the way. You need a nine to five to do this most of the time, otherwise, there is that financial strain on the link. Unless you're very lucky. Unless you're very lucky.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

And there are people that do, you know.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

And you know, of course, of course there are people that do. But I'm talking like this phase that we're in of like trying to get the things on the resume first. Here we are talking about like the doing this for my career. Exactly. There are parts of it. So like, if like I don't know, I feel like opera in comparison to musical theater is a little bit more understanding of like, yeah, you have a nine to five job and also want to do theater because the auditions for musical theater I've noticed happen like during the day.

SPEAKER_04 28:10

During the day, yeah. Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

And if you want to make it to an open call, it's like you're taking the day off work.

SPEAKER_04 28:16

But those are most of the equity things. Yes. But then again, those are the ones. That's true. That's paid.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

I do need to look more into like the regional team or like just video submission, like that's what that is.

SPEAKER_04 28:29

Yeah. But well, but like young artist programs expect you to fly across the country and sing for them for free for the audition, you know.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

That I've noticed is getting better too.

SPEAKER_04 28:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

But I'm talking like subtle changes that are gradually getting better.

SPEAKER_04 28:42

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

Um, like oh, I wish I wish I could list off the companies. I'm just like not remembering off the top of my head, but a lot of them are offering just video or like um I for a while I was like, have people stopped coming to Chicago? Like a lot of like for a little bit, a lot of companies were only doing New York and one other town somewhere else. I noticed a fair amount of Chicago options this year, which was pleasing, and also works for other people that are in other states. Like sometimes Chicago is the better, like centrally located option. Because at the same time, I also understand how for our art form, it's like you really gotta be in the room for it because our stuff is based in how you sound in a room and how you'll carry over an orchestra. I do think most of that tea can be discovered in a video IMO, like that's my opinion. But I there's something to be said for like hearing the magic of a voice in person. So I also get that too. It's really hard.

SPEAKER_04 29:36

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

It's so hard. I don't know. I'm mostly pro video for the sake of access and equity.

SPEAKER_04 29:40

Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, like I mean I've done some, like I've had some videos done that's like like the like I got this video whenever I did the foray requiem solo. Like you've heard that. It's like I sound like a monster in there.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

It's scary.

SPEAKER_04 29:56

Like then you can tell.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

You're like, oh my god, imagine being in the room for that.

SPEAKER_04 30:00

But it's the recording. If I put my phone up and sang it in here, I'd sing it the same way.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:05

But I wouldn't sound like I do in that video. That video is ridiculous, Mike.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

It's on my website if you want to work.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Go click it. It's like I remember I well, what was so funny was when it came on my TikTok beat. I did it, one. I was like, well, first of all, it was kind of dark. So I was like, It was dark.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

I was like, and it was in there.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

I couldn't believe it was you, because I think that was the one of the first times I'd heard you sing solo, if I'm being honest, because that was like the era in which he posted it. Yeah. And I was like, where is he? Is that Caden or is he just posting some ride? Oh no, that's him, I just can't see. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:39

And then you hear me in, you know, in in a carpet theater. It's like, oh, he's like a normal person. But for whatever reason, that video, like I it's loud, but like that video is like some like the it just the the reverb, and I think the mic was like in like a like back corner of the like auditorium. Yeah. It's really funny. It's really funny.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

Insane.

SPEAKER_04 31:02

Yeah. Well, and the director was like, Caden, can you sing it like an uh what did he say? What did he say? And he's like, just sing it like your he's like, what what's your uh what's what's your nationality? I'm like, Hello?

SPEAKER_03 31:15

I'm like, I'm American.

unknown 31:17

Hello?

SPEAKER_03 31:18

He's like, well, where's your family from? I'm like, uh, Southern Illinois.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

That's the Illinois.

SPEAKER_04 31:23

Well imagine that you're like a Viking. Or I'm like, I'm like, he's like, imagine that you're a warrior. I'm like, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_02 31:29

Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_04 31:30

I get it. And it's like you look at the dynamics. I think it's like Mark Piano, but nobody does that.

SPEAKER_02 31:35

No, rip it.

SPEAKER_04 31:36

They're just like rip it. They're just like laying it out.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

That's fine.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

Whatever.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

Whatever.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

It's funny.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

I'm realizing I'm louder than I think. I think sometimes light voices get written off as, oh, you're peep-pity-poo-poo. Oh, you're not sure.

SPEAKER_04 31:53

You sound so high. I don't think it matters when I'm reaching as high as you do.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

True. But I think I'm finally figuring out, like, oh, yeah. The more I don't like, yeah, everyone learns how to not push. Whatever. But like the more I lean into, oh, I don't need to push, the more I lean into, oh, I don't need to push, the more I'm like, oh, yes, this sounds like it's inside myself, but I just need to trust that it's enough. I listen back and I'm like, that's so loud. When I think I'm not doing enough, that's when it's it's like prettiest and most natural and like loudest. And I'm like, oh so that's like taught me like, oh, the more I ease up, the more A-free it'll get, and the louder it'll be, which is what everyone wants anyway. So I'll lean into that and see what that gets me next. Metcom. We'll see. But not that it reads about the Metcom. I just remember like some of my feedback was like, you're not the loudest voice in the room, but and it was because I had gone after one of the most riprorious, the loudest voices I'd ever heard. And there's people that are just like.

SPEAKER_04 32:56

That's cool.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 32:57

That's cool for those people, but yeah, and that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Everyone's allowed to their taste. And I understand that the Metcomp wants to I like that too, but yeah, of course it's exciting.

SPEAKER_04 33:03

It's different.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

So it's like, and also like if you're at the Met, like, yeah, they're gonna want you to rip that shit, you know. So I like it. But also I'm like, okay, well, whoever wants me will want me. That's the other thing, is I think that's helped in my detachment a little bit. I think it's a little healthy for everyone to have a little detachment from their the career, like whatever we're trying to do. Um, because then better art gets made. I've said that a million times on this pod, but like I think that's helped in my detachment. Is like, oh, the more I just let my voice be what it is and let it exist as itself, the more the people that it's meant for will like it and be excited by it. Yeah. And the more people that it's not for will like deter me from it. But then like I can know like this group is for me, and like these people that didn't like my voice, great, that wasn't meant for me. You know? Like it's just easier.

SPEAKER_04 33:52

Yeah, and it's interesting, like like there's some people, like, I don't think that every good opera singer is nice to listen to.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Period. You know, and I've always And that's oh I've we could dig into that for a while.

SPEAKER_04 34:05

Yeah, I mean I've always thought I've always like like I've never allowed myself to make a sound that like feels technically better or more comfortable or uh was like or or make a sound that like my felt more like what my teacher was telling me to do that I didn't like. You know. And I've been I've been really careful about that. And I think that's why I've been able to do more theater stuff is because I've always been like there's more freedom. Well, it's like like I've always been like I'm not I'm going to sing in a way that I like to listen to.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_04 34:43

So like I like I can listen to myself in recordings, no problem.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Cool. Um That's cool.

SPEAKER_04 34:48

Even though it sounds different, like, you know, than it does in your head.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:53

But um But that that's something that I've been that I've thought about. But I think there's some th singers that are like great singers. It's like I don't like that timbre at all. Yeah, even though they're like technically doing everything really well and you know, all checking all the boxes, just like timbre things that I'm like not always sold on.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

I'm gonna say a thought.

SPEAKER_04 35:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

I think there's a lot of vocal hackery getting sold out there, and I think some of it lives in university settings.

SPEAKER_02 35:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

And it's a shame because like it's like you're saying, we're being taught what to do technically, but there's something about it that we don't like. And I I think it lives in like the vocal objectification of it all. Like we're so obsessed with like fitting into a box of what good operatic sound sounds like that like it's become something that it isn't. It's lost its organicness. It exists for the sake of adherence to these ideals of what it sounds like, yeah. That we've strayed from organic soundmaking, that like theatrical soundmaking, singing, saying something.

SPEAKER_04 36:00

Amplified singing.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Saying something. It's more about like, how well can I play this sport of adherence than saying things. And I and I think that it's kind of like what you're saying, like, oh, I I I hear this and I know they're quote unquote good because we know what the standard sounds like, but we know that they're not actually saying anything. And this isn't to diss any particular person, and this is something I've struggled with. Like, in my attempts at trying to sound like a certain vocal ideal, that was when I sounded my worst. I'll say that with my chest. Like, I sounded like poop d-doo-doo in grad school. Um but that that's so I f I've been leaning away from like trying to just adhere to that. I'm like, okay, well, what feels good? What sounds good? Yeah, there's some validity because it's like, yeah, the technique exists to free things up.

SPEAKER_04 36:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

But I think the pedagogy has leaned into how do we make them sound like this ideal. Students can't make that bad sounds they can't do it.

SPEAKER_04 37:01

Yeah, that was like my change between undergrad and grad school was like, you know, like in in undergrad, I was like, I want to sing like this singer, this singer, and this singer, you know. Um and in grad school it's like, okay, how do I get how do I get my technique to a place that is like, you know, that is more like my sound, even though it seems like it's kind of uh I'm I'm doing more technically, you know, than I was at that time. But it's truer, you know? Yeah. I don't know, that's like that's like a super No, it's hard.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

I think for a long time I thought I think I thought technique was about imitation entirely. Yeah. I think I used to always think that technique was about imitation, but once and this took me until I was in grad school to realize, but I honestly think it is part of the internet. Sure, listening is important. I think listening is like so critical to like understand where you'll eventually arrive in terms of certain timbre things. But like the more I realized and leaned into, oh, technique is meant to make everything feel easier, and that is it. Technique is there to make it feel like it's nothing and like it's something that just is a is a part of you. And it's it's not an imitation game, it's about knowing how your voice feels to just project and and say without pushing or feeling like it's it's too much, but also kind of figuring out where things will sit when you're up that high, or figuring out where things will sit when you're down so low, or but for your voice, that is, but for your voice and yourself.

SPEAKER_04 38:37

Yeah, it's funny. I mean, I like I honestly think there is something to be said about like you know, like everybody's gonna be like, oh, baritone's overdarking, or they try to sound older than they do. And it's like you listen to the ones that like get hired and do things, like Sam Raimi. It's like even when he's like younger, he's so like and it's like you know, there's part of that that's kind of cool, but at the other, you know, I don't know. Like I've all like I've always I've always like I'm not gonna sing in a way that I don't think is pleasant to listen to. Like it's like even the best singers at the Met, it's like you know, imagine like being, you know, like like a caveman around a campfire and they're like singing, you know. And like there's ways that people would sing, and maybe there would be some loud singers, but none of them would sound like that. You know, so it's interesting. So, you know, but that's not the same. The way a caveman would sing.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

I like the way you said that. Like tapping into something so organic and original.

unknown 39:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

Would they have sounded like that?

SPEAKER_04 39:42

I don't think they would have sounded like that.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

No, because we're all stuck up on our bullshit of what's the beaver gabriatic sound and how to do that.

SPEAKER_04 39:47

It wouldn't have sounded like Billy Eilish either, you know, probably.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

Absolutely. But there is teen to like audio recording technology is like changed and stuff about that.

SPEAKER_04 39:55

And all those, and and I think I think both sides of that is is fine, you know.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

But here we are.

SPEAKER_04 40:03

For what I've chosen to do. Yeah, this is not this is like this is like sound ideal. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

No, literally, literally. So I don't know, it's a fucking myth. But I I do think the best singers this kind of is Meisner coded a little bit, but some of the world's like best actors like on screen that everyone in pop culture loves, and like just like the world at large loves, are Meisner trained people. And like the one of the foundations of Meisner is like the belief that like I am enough. That's so corny boots, but like the foundational principle is I am enough. You don't need to add anything. You are allowed to let whatever comes up come out, and that's what makes it good. You accepting that whatever comes out, whether the audience perceives that as bad or good, yeah, that's good. Let it out, and that's what makes it good. So I I think that the best singers lean into that the most. What and like as a byproduct, like there isn't pushing, but I think we're there are a lot of pedagogues out there that teach you to push, though. Like they don't say like I'm teaching you to push, they don't say that, but in reality, they are encouraging pushing and they don't know that they're advocating for pushing. They're like, oh, like yeah, you have to have effort at that part of your voice. But but no, this is something I'm looking at.

SPEAKER_04 41:22

No, it's it's interesting too, because like like I've always I've always been I've always had a dark sound, even whenever I was like in like junior high and I was first starting to sing, like some of stuff like that. Like, even it's just like dark, it wasn't low, or it wasn't super low, it wasn't super high, or or anything like that. Yeah, and it was like I was taught in my undergrad to not do that, and then my master's degree, it's like, no, lean into your sound, and it's extremely dark. And some people are like, Oh, that's that's too dark, or oh, it's overdarkening. It's like, no, that's just like how it works well for me.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:55

And some people like that, and some people don't. And that's yeah. That's what it is, you know.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

Even as you're talking, like I could clock that from a mile away, because even the way you're talking, because at the end of the day, our sound is comes from us talking too. Like it's it just rattles down there. That's how that is.

SPEAKER_04 42:10

Yeah, so it's not it's not low, but it's like but like ever like even whenever I was it was just so interesting that even whenever I was younger and I hadn't taken voice lessons, it was it was sort of dark. And I was taught like, you know, like in my undergrad, like oh do stuff to it. Don't overdark don't overdarken, you know, make it sound make it sound plainer, make it sound lighter. And it's like, oh that never worked, you know.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 42:32

So yeah, it's interesting. And very interesting. People can look up my videos and and judge if if they think that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

If you're wasting your time doing that, I don't know what you're doing. But that's the thing about it all.

SPEAKER_04 42:43

I I always feel so weird having these talks about it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

That's what matters. That's what matters. You go out there and you know that you like it. And I know that this is an issue with musical theater and opera. Like, auditioning is such a hard thing because you're like, I'm showing up to this room only so that you can decide if you like me or not. And sometimes people try to gain control of that by being like, I will be good enough for you to like me, and I'm going to try so hard to be good. But then that's when you become I am not enough. Yeah. And then that's what repels you.

SPEAKER_04 43:13

About auditions. Opera companies don't need to have auditions. They literally don't need to.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

I kind of get it.

SPEAKER_04 43:21

I don't think I know a single company that couldn't cast whatever show they're trying to cast with people they've worked with before. Musical theater companies are different. They just go for it. It's in the middle of nowhere, we're doing Joseph and the Technicolor Dreamcoat. We need twelve brothers.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Let's figure it out.

SPEAKER_04 43:39

And they have auditions, and then they get all those people from that. Opera companies don't need to.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

Like like Where are they pulling from? Just people that they've done before.

SPEAKER_04 43:48

People that they've worked with before, universities, people that they know of in the area. It's just like it's not that they don't get people from auditions, but the actual Actual necessity for we need to fill a show with people from this audition is not real. And I don't think people clock that.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

I just that that looky did just make me have a realization that I think there are patterns that I know recently. Fair. I didn't let like you just made me process something. Because that's true. When I notice who gets opportunities, it's people that they've worked with before. But the thing about it is the people they've worked with before are very talented people. And so sometimes they get summoned to other places, whether they be higher, whether they just be different places.

SPEAKER_04 44:34

Yeah, and people go through that.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

And then the auditions exist as a means of like, oh, who have we seen a few times and we've liked them every time? Okay, let's let's take a chance on them. Like and they've been nice in every audition. So, like, yeah, let's take a chance on them. It's been a few times, let's give it a whirl. That's why I think there's there I don't think it's bullshit. I think sometimes people think it's bullshit when it's like, well, why am I auditioning for this company multiple times? No, it's okay and good to go multiple times. It doesn't mean like, oh, you're not good enough. Why am I wasting my efforts here? It's like, no, I think they need to see you a few times for familiarity's sake for them to trust you enough to cast you. Because like I don't think people are putting themselves in the shoes of the casting department a lot. They're like, oh, well, it's so biased and pee-pity poo that they're picking people they know. But of course they're picking people they know. That's okay.

SPEAKER_04 45:20

Like they definitely do, like they definitely do that, and like what you said, I like like I know that I know they do that. But the thing is, is they don't need to do that every year. But they do every year. They don't need to do that. So it's like the the audition is like, you know, of course, of course they're gonna find people from auditions, but they don't need to do it. They don't need to cast every single role. So it's like like the way that the way that I think opera people casting are thinking is like so much more than this is what I practiced in my mock audition, this is when I this is how I go, and I I I say this to the pianist, and this is how I say my name, and this is how I introduce my arias and stuff. It's like like all that's I'm not saying all that's not important, but it's such a small aspect of of what they're thinking, of what they're thinking for. This is and and you know, like like training programs I think are similar and different at the same time. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

That is fair, because like with the young artist program, it's like they're looking for shiny babies.

SPEAKER_04 46:30

And company Yeah, and companies that are like a hundred percent this is a training thing. That is like auditions.

SPEAKER_03 46:38

Of course.

SPEAKER_04 46:39

That's they're getting people from auditions, and they do need to have auditions. Because I don't think most people are doing the same training program more than once or twice.

SPEAKER_01 46:47

We're also talking about this from a place of like we didn't even know how like the A houses are operating. Like, but it's like you said, like they technically don't need the auditions then the auditions exist so that they can see their potential backups a few times in a row. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 47:01

Yeah, and I mean the like the I think the A houses are even even like less about it, you know. Then it's like I think I think most of the I think most of the Ryan Center people they they found from other places. Young artists programs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

That's the thing that that you also notice is like the people that are getting into the big um things like Brian Opera Center or like the um why am I forgetting the Mets Young Artist Program? Don't listen to me. Um, like the people getting into those are like they've already had like a summer program or two with like a bigger name under their belt. Yeah. Because like, I don't know, to if there's any younger singers listening to this, like this isn't something I really did in my undergrad. I was like blah, blah, blah, I'll just do grad school and figure it out. But by the time I got to grad school, I was like, okay, so what is the trajectory of the people that are having the career that I want? Like you go find the resume, you go look at what they're doing and like what they've checked off almost before they go to those places. And it's just interesting to watch. I don't do it as like a checklist or bucket list for myself. I'm like, okay, I'll get where I'm going however I get there. But it is interesting to see, like, oh, what are they doing before they get there? I don't know. You make a point though, that it's not that the auditions don't have to happen every year. They can rely on people that they trust before. But then though people get kicked out.

SPEAKER_04 48:15

It's not a necessity the way that uh it's not a necessity for the companies, the way that auditioning is a necessity for singers is the thing.

SPEAKER_02 48:25

AO.

SPEAKER_04 48:26

So it's just like it's just like a total like just missing one another. Yeah. That's one thing that makes auditions and career and young artists program. It's just another thing. Another thing that's an inequity that's like, you know, not not like, oh, they you know, it's a it's just another reason to think of auditions in a more vague and more gray area.

SPEAKER_01 48:52

Like oh, I'm just being seen right now. Like I'm just giving them a f a little free show because they happen to have a company and like they assess entertainment all the time. So I'll just show up and be some entertainment for a good four to five minutes and see you later.

SPEAKER_04 49:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:04

Yeah. That's the only way you can think about it. Guys, what the f what the freak, guys? Give us a call. I'm gonna find the number again.

SPEAKER_04 49:13

Sweet.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

I'm gonna find the number.

SPEAKER_04 49:16

Phone.

SPEAKER_01 49:17

Oh, you know what?

SPEAKER_04 49:19

You got it.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

I got it, I got it, I got it. Let's let's pull it up. Let's pull it up.

SPEAKER_04 49:24

Pull it up.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

Please give us a call, you guys.

SPEAKER_04 49:27

Come on, Quayne.

SPEAKER_01 49:28

Come on.

SPEAKER_04 49:29

We're waiting.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

Guys, you can give us a call at 224-423-5218. Give it the ring. Give us your questions, things you need advice on.

SPEAKER_02 49:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

We by no means guarantee we'll give you good advice. But we're just here for the ride.

SPEAKER_04 49:51

Tell me how I'm down. Tell me how I'm down.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

Tell us how we're stupid. Tell us your thoughts. I don't know. We love y'all. We love y'all bad. We'll talk to you soon.

SPEAKER_04 49:59

Bye.

SPEAKER_01 50:00

Bye.