Operatic Banjo Pickin’ at the Y2K Chili’s | Navigating the Break | Episode 13

Two classical singers still figuring it out, but now you get to know our Chili's orders.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

They're like I was like one of my favorite songs we were talking about earlier. I love that song. That's one of my favorite that's probably one of my favorite instrumental pieces of music.

SPEAKER_05 0:37

Guys, welcome back to Navigating the Party.

SPEAKER_04 0:40

Oh, it's gonna be that it's been too long. Yeah. We stockpile the episodes for you guys sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 0:49

Cause you know how it is. Singers' lives are busy lives. Frequently busy. And Ramau's crying for us to let him in, so we'll let him in. Oh, he's not coming in. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

That's okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:01

That's okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:06

What have you been enjoying artistically lately?

SPEAKER_03 1:11

Playing the banjo. Yeah? I started playing the banjo major this past I I don't know. I guess it was last month I started. Um, but it's so much fun. I've been like, it's cool to like kind of start at square one. Like, since I played guitar for a long time, it's like I'm not really starting at square one, but I'm like past all the annoying stuff about learning an instrument from the stuff that transferred from a guitar.

SPEAKER_06 1:38

Love.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

So I'm like, I'm like still like a beginner, but I've overcome the like, oh my fingers hurt. I don't know how to move my fingers and my hands. It's like, I know how to move my fingers and my hands now. Let me get the things that are idiosyncratic about this instrument, and it feels so good. I take that banjo out on the porch and I play it.

SPEAKER_06 1:59

Hello?

SPEAKER_03 2:00

I love this brand for you. Yeah, that was good. Did you see that TikTok that I made?

SPEAKER_04 2:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

About Southern Illinois with me playing the banjo?

SPEAKER_04 2:08

I loved that video. Yeah. It was good. You had some good stuff to say about just life down there. Yeah. Major.

SPEAKER_03 2:17

Made made lots of people.

SPEAKER_04 2:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

Lots of people had opinions about it.

SPEAKER_04 2:21

Well, that stuff had been rattling in your brain for a while. Oh, it always is.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

It's like that's like my favorite thing to like think about. Pontificate. And I wonder, you know, singers might relate to this on the podcast. Like singers that have come from small towns. It's like like I asked I I had two videos, me playing banjo on the porch, and one of them was like, what is Southern Illinois? Because it's not really the Midwest, it's not really the South. Um and I I think that it kind of like I think it kind of like is longing to have some sort of culture because like people from the South really identify with being southern. And even people like up here in Chicago and and further north like really identify with being Midwestern. But I don't think people in Southern Illinois identify with either. And like some people be like, Oh, well, yeah, we identify as Southern Illinois. It's like I've been there, you don't, yeah, and not in the same way that not like I am so proud to be from Southern Illinois. I love that part of the country.

SPEAKER_05 3:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

I love Southern Illinois, it's like the it's like my favorite place. But the people aren't like, well, you're in the South now, so we treat people like this, and we do things like this. And it's not like, well, you're in the Midwest, so this is how we do things up here. Oh, yeah. And it's like like there's like both of those are like really strong. Like, this is how we do things because this is our culture, this is how we do things because this is our culture. Southern white just doesn't have that. And you know, it has like, you know, it's like, oh, well, it's working class and it's rural, and it's like, yes, it's true, but those aren't really necessarily distinct to this area.

SPEAKER_06 4:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

But the second, but the the second one that I made was like asking artist people like why did you leave your hometown?

SPEAKER_05 4:08

Yes. Um it's giving mind zane and mind made.

SPEAKER_03 4:11

Yeah, a little bit, but like I know what you're saying, yeah. Like, do you do you ever think about your hometown? Like, why did you leave? How do you think about it now that you've moved to a different place? Um, is it even possible to like be an artist kind of person from where you're from? Uh all different things. Oh, that's a great question. Do you feel connected to that place? Like, yeah, I think that's something that a I don't know. I I feel really can I feel that's something that I think about a lot. And I wonder if other people do as well.

SPEAKER_04 4:46

I think you're poking at a bear that I think is like an I don't even want to say a necessary evil, but a necessary part of like maybe anyone, even someone who comes from somewhere that is metropolitan or like whatever, like how the place they grew up like makes them feel. And sure everyone just like naturally pontificates on that.

SPEAKER_03 5:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:06

But like, I don't know. I think that's an interesting way it can inform your work.

SPEAKER_03 5:16

Here, like I I think that's the kind of interesting thing. Yeah. And you know, like I'm I'm doing things that are like trying to, you know, facilitate that a little bit, and it's working to various degrees, but it's like, you know, as much as I would like to, I couldn't be, I couldn't be a singer, couldn't be a couldn't even really be a singing teacher down there.

SPEAKER_04 5:37

I mean Well, you are right now, a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

I am, but I but I live here exactly. Yes. I'd I'd have to be a high school teacher or something like that.

SPEAKER_04 5:45

Exactly. Different vibes.

SPEAKER_03 5:46

Yeah, it's just different. And thinking about how those things affect your art making. And specifically, like I've been thinking a lot about like songwriters and you know, people that are like like yeah, opera singers do say things, say something with their art. But like, you know, people that are actually putting pen to paper and writing their own words in a row. Um because I've been thinking about that too. Like, like I don't feel like I have uh like part of it's like music too. Even even up here in like the Chicago suburbs, like the Midwest emo scene is like built out of I don't know how much you interacted with the Midwest emo scene growing up in Chicago.

SPEAKER_04 6:26

The emo is not as much, but um I was in a big into the house show scene when I was in college in central Illinois.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

Yeah, like American football and and those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_04 6:38

Not even that do you know what I'm saying when I say house show?

SPEAKER_03 6:40

Yeah, yeah. You go to somebody's basement. We've talked about it yet.

SPEAKER_04 6:42

Yeah, but like yeah, that whole vibe is.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

Indy. Like I re I want to explore that more. But like Southern Illinois, I mean it's not really country music, like country music's Nashville and Tennessee, and it's not like bluegrass, that's more Kentucky, and yeah. So I'm like playing the banjo, and I feel I feel a little bit like I'm cosplaying, but at the same time, my grandpa played the banjo on my mom's side.

SPEAKER_04 7:12

Really?

SPEAKER_03 7:12

Yeah, not Donnie. Donnie.

SPEAKER_04 7:14

Yeah, I was like, no, okay.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

No, but my other grandpa did, yeah. Yeah, so I kind of feel like there's and and he did have like like his family did bluegrass, like like the mom played the like electric organ, like his mom played the electric organ and piano.

SPEAKER_06 7:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 7:31

Um, and I think they had like a like a brother play the guitar or something, but they had like a family it was like the it was like the stereotypical like southern bluegrass like family system.

SPEAKER_05 7:42

It's Vontrap, but it's it's playing instruments together.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

Playing instruments together, you know, entertaining yourself.

SPEAKER_04 7:47

That's so nice.

SPEAKER_03 7:48

And I like I can't, you know, there's part of me that like longs for that a little bit. Yeah, but Phillips family has some of that a little bit recently.

SPEAKER_04 7:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:57

Phillips family has some of that.

SPEAKER_04 7:58

Yeah, like if there's these old like VHS tapes from the 90s of like one of the like parties that was happening over in Poland in the 90s, and like they just whipped out like the accordions and the and the fiddles and the brass, and they would just go at it. That's cool. Put together the Polish tunes, and that was just like what they did at the parties. Yeah, and I was like, oh my god, that's Cliff Hiers. Yeah, and even when we went and visited uh Philip's grandparents over there, they like Philip's grandpa, like um uh Peter's dad uh whips out the accordion and he's just like having a good old time, like wow, that's like so cool. And how cool to have something that you can like also do in your old age. I've been thinking about old age a lot.

SPEAKER_03 8:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:38

Yeah, like music making and things to carry with you.

SPEAKER_03 8:43

There's a part of me too that's like, you know, like I wasn't like my family, you know, is not wealthy by any means, you know. We did fine, but like you know, especially coming up to Chicago and like doing a donor event where you're in a three million dollar house. Good boy.

SPEAKER_06 9:00

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:01

It's like there's a part of me that like doesn't identify with opera in that way. Because even historically, it's like you know, the rich people that can pay for voice lessons and stuff. Like I honestly don't think I've ever paid for a voice lesson. I did my in my in my undergrad, I guess I did with because I paid tuition for my undergrad. But yeah, I've never been like, here's money, teach me how to sing. Well, but my my my undergrad tuition was. But so I mean, there's so there's a part of me that's like, oh, I kind of don't identify with this art form in that way. But like, you know, I taught myself how to play guitar in the eighth grade, and I I was like my dad had a guitar. I saw it in the corner and I grabbed it and I was like, let me figure out how to do this. So it's like, yeah, you know, being being like alone with a guitar like this with my arms wrapped around it, versus singing with my arms out like this to a to a stage, like I identify, like I feel more culturally connected to this kind of thing rather than this kind of thing. And and so like I uh and I mean I I I obviously love both things, but I realize that there's like a comfortability with like yeah, like even like with opera, you know, we've done everything we can to make it feel like oh yeah, this is our art form.

SPEAKER_06 10:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

But there's a part of me that's like, you know, this is that doesn't feel that way. Yeah. But I do whenever I pick up the guitar and go to write a song, you know.

SPEAKER_04 10:36

Oh interesting. That's cool.

SPEAKER_03 10:40

Even though, even though I've dedicated so much of my life to theater. Not only singing, not only singing opera, but like producing opera and teaching opera.

SPEAKER_04 10:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:50

So I've not that I would I wouldn't change anything about it, but it's just something that I've been sitting on interesting recently.

SPEAKER_04 10:57

So interesting. Oh, what have you been thinking on? I wish I could have held the mic up to you for that, honey. Um yeah, no, I've been like I don't know, I've been reevaluating my attachments to opera and like I mean, I didn't start out loving opera. I know some people get into it in the like guess I was five and knew what opera was, and then I decided to do it.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

And it's like and that's fierce because my parents paid for me to do piano lessons and violin lessons, and then I started singing opera also. Like, you know, I heard somebody say, like, you know, they asked their voice teacher, like, oh, like, could I do this? It's like, you know, for me, I was just doing it. It was too early, you know. Like I mean, I was in I was in high school saying Nesun Dorma with my friend, you know, like it wasn't right. Like, it wasn't right.

SPEAKER_04 11:53

But did you feel you naturally gravitated towards singing in classical ways? Or a way that's reminiscent of classical vibes ever?

SPEAKER_03 12:04

I was talking to one of my students about this recently, and no, but I felt like I sang Elvis music the best. 100% when I was growing up. It was like that was just what made sense to me. Which like if you listen to Elvis sing, like especially like a little bit later in his life, like he's really singing on the core, consistent vibrato. Um like it's very classical, aligned. I get what you're saying. His earlier stuff, like blue suede shoes, is definitely more like Motown and Gospel aligned, but um I see that for you. Yeah, so so that was kind of what I that was kind of what I gravitated to. Okay. And I mean I just sang whatever was on the radio and the Christian contemporary music that I grew up with. Um crazy. So like those things were like what I was kind of naturally like pulled towards at the very beginning. And I was quickly drawn into theater, I did a play, and then a musical, and and then that kind of that's kind of where the classical started to creep in.

SPEAKER_04 13:16

Yeah, no, I see that for you. Like even hearing you talk, I'm like, well, yes, of course he sings Elvis well. Like, duh, like whatever. It just kind of never one said that actually.

SPEAKER_03 13:24

I like Which was weird because I didn't necessarily listen to a lot of Elvis music.

SPEAKER_04 13:29

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 13:30

It was just like kind of when I started to sing, I was like, you know, you learn like can't help falling in love because that's just like a three-court guitar story.

SPEAKER_05 13:37

Yeah, and that's what you do when you're 13.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

Oh, Ramon.

SPEAKER_05 13:43

Remo's not.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

What is that? The the Vaseline.

SPEAKER_05 13:51

I love that we're talking about my little Vaseline on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

Vaseline.

SPEAKER_05 13:56

I keep a big tub of Vaseline and the little Vaseline in my purse, and sometimes I pull them out and I go, Mama, and baby.

SPEAKER_04 14:06

I don't know. I've been really thinking about like, damn, do I really like this? Not like not like in that way.

SPEAKER_03 14:15

Like, that's too dire of a way to like No, that's a funny thing to like have an opera podcast and admit, though.

SPEAKER_04 14:21

I I know.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_04 14:23

But I'm saying that in the sense of like, I don't think this is all there is to me, and I don't think this is like I like I know the branding is like, oh yeah, that's Cameron, she's a classical singer, and like Kimmer be singing what I am, sure. Yeah, but like I don't know. I was I was really honored. I didn't expect this, but like Schomburg Summer Theater, the community theater the tip.

SPEAKER_03 14:48

I saw something. Yeah, they oh they reposted your thing. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 14:51

They made a post. I didn't expect them to post anything, but it was Mother's Day, and I had just gotten I'd worked my like an eight-hour shift for Mother's Day.

SPEAKER_06 15:00

Oh wow from 9 a.m.

SPEAKER_04 15:02

to five, and like got off, and I was checking Instagram. I saw they made a post.

SPEAKER_03 15:07

It was like like celebrating Mother's Day, like here is this Cameron be singing as Mother in Ragtime. Yeah, I saw that.

SPEAKER_04 15:15

And I was like, Oh my god, I like I'm terrified. Like I probably sounded like poop. Like, I don't know. Was there a because I was just 18. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:23

Oh, I thought it was just a picture.

unknown 15:24

No, it's a video.

SPEAKER_03 15:26

Oh yeah. I gotta watch it.

SPEAKER_04 15:27

We can watch that later. Um, but I I listened and I was like, wait, I was like, low-key good. I like was not bad for being 17. Like, oh yeah, what the hell? And so I don't know, like that's not what triggered this. Like, I already know that like musical theater just is a part of me, and musical theater is kind of what has naturally been what I gravitate towards and like feel really passionate about.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

And Seidel made a video about this. Really? Did you see that?

SPEAKER_04 15:57

Was it like a talking head video?

SPEAKER_03 15:59

Yeah, she was talking and like playing like footage of her doing musicals. Seidel mentioned on Navigating the Break.

SPEAKER_04 16:07

Hi's Idle.

SPEAKER_03 16:08

You know, you know Seidel.

SPEAKER_04 16:09

I do, I have met Seidel.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

Yeah, I haven't met.

SPEAKER_04 16:12

We've been friends on the internet for a long time.

SPEAKER_03 16:13

Heck yeah, I think I think she follows me back. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 16:16

Um You love you, Seidle.

SPEAKER_03 16:18

I think she does.

SPEAKER_04 16:18

Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:19

Yeah, it was like her saying like like she lied to her for her first voice teacher that she was doing this role in a musical because she thought the voice teacher wouldn't like it.

SPEAKER_04 16:28

Oh that's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 16:30

Or something like that. Yeah, I'm I'm not explaining it well, but no, but that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 16:34

I'll have to go look at that video, but like I like the minute I turned I I really like musical theater starting at like 10, and I was like, Yay, the music man, la la la, like this is fun. And then I started to like it more in junior high, um, because we did musicals in junior high, and then like freshman year came around, and like I was around all these like older people that like everyone in the grades above me, like in theater, with like talking about all these shows, and like they'd play them in the dressing room, and I'd be like, Wow, these shows are good, and like I would like do the theater kid thing and like start to get into shows and like listen to them, and like I loved singing it, and I had all these dream roles, and like I obviously have like some dream roles in opera, but there's still the the real genuine part of my heart really only really has those roles. And I uh I am still very passionate about opera. I still think it is one of the most moving art forms there is when done well.

SPEAKER_06 17:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:39

I am frequently disappointed in the ways in which I think even the highest levels of opera making are missing the mark on what makes a good performance. Whoa, I'm saying all this, it's coming out of my head.

SPEAKER_03 17:50

It's good, it's good.

SPEAKER_04 17:51

It's got to be a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

Well, you're not you're not alone. I mean, there's there's other people on the internet that's why I say it. This exact thing.

SPEAKER_04 17:58

Because it's it's disappointing. Um and I think it's hard to keep putting up with that disappointment.

SPEAKER_03 18:05

Yeah. Well, and I I hear a lot of people saying that, but I don't hear as many people saying how we should fix that, other than listen to singers from the the from the twenties and the thirties. It's like for me that's not it. For me, it's something else. I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_04 18:26

Yeah. I think it is uh it's not the equation. I know that it isn't the answer. I here's what I do think about this thing you're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

I like a lot of modern singers.

SPEAKER_04 18:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 18:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:40

There are there are some that I like, and then there are some where I'm like, whoa, like this is where we're at. That's crazy. I'm wow, I'm really glad we're talking about this. Um, I don't think we've ever really gotten into the weeds on this exact thing. I do think here's what I'll say to anyone that is looking for a voice teacher, whether you're post grad, whether you're about to start your degree, like you're undergrad, like whatever. I think if a teacher says to you, oh, if if they are under the impression that it's impossible for anyone to be as good as Kalas, or anyone to be as good as like the Pavarotti or the greats, or like, oh yeah, like if they say something along the lines of, oh yeah, like that's just like how they were back then, like that's just like how good they were, yeah. Run because that is possible. But they did ascribe to a certain set of ideals and they did train differently than we do now. And it's almost as if, like, in ballet, like this art form has maintained its like structure for years. Um, and if anything, it's gotten even harder from its early days, like whatever.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:48

But there is a certain technical level that is baseline, and I think the baseline technical level has been brought down. Like some of the singers that sing in A houses wouldn't have been like laughed at or like been like, what the hell are you doing in in the 40s of the city?

SPEAKER_03 20:03

Well, I wonder about that because part of me just thinks, well, it's just the ones that survived like the time that are still remembered that are better.

SPEAKER_04 20:12

I would be curious to hear like who was singing at a sea house back.

SPEAKER_03 20:15

Because I'm sure there were, and I yeah, I wonder what they would have sounded like.

SPEAKER_04 20:18

But that's the thing. It's never about like it's one thing to say, like, oh, we should all be able to sound like collisions. That is not it at all. If a teacher thinks that it's already impossible to get to that level of technical proficiency, and I'm not talking like technical proficiency for the sake of it. I'm like for the sake of like for the shits and gigs of it, like for the sake of being able to do all the insane things that are cool to see happen, like beautiful registration and beautiful like things that are just nice to listen to the ear because guess what? It also just sounds like speech. Yeah, and it's and it's the thing that we talk about where we hate when people are just making sounds. But that is what a lot of universities teach. And if someone thinks, if there is a teacher that you are paying to teach you sing and they think that level of technical proficiency is just not even worth attempting to strive for, or like then why would you pay them? Because we should vote for that and then we can like land among the stars if you don't reach the moon, like you can land among the stars. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 21:18

You can, it's fine. You're allowed to land among the stars.

SPEAKER_04 21:21

Because, like, yeah, like I don't expect to sound like Paulas or like Ingeborg Holstein to a T, but like if I'm listening to those singers and knowing that like they had that sauce, they had that juice that makes singing feel easy. Interesting, that allows you to be the authentic, expressive performer that opera needs, then I will shoot for those moons every time.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:42

Yeah, that's how I feel. But there's also some modern singers. Like, I'm not saying all modern singers are bad. I think that is very extreme to be like all modern singing bad, all old singing good. That I think is not because then people also won't agree with you enough to hear that there's validity to what you're saying, but you're saying it too too black and white almost.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

I hear some of those people like that are like, oh, you need you just need to listen to old recordings. Everything was better back then. Like, and then you hear them sing and it's like, why do you sound why do you why does your singing sound like it's being played through uh a tin Yeah, exactly the gramophone or whatever. Like like why does why does your singing sound like that? You know? Like it like it's like to me sometimes a lot of those people that are like, oh yeah, it's it's a like it was so much better back then. Like you listen to the singing, which is like recorded with an iPhone mic, and it's like I know what a singer in an iPhone mic sounds like. What what are you fabric wh why are you fabricating your singing to match the sound of this recording technology?

SPEAKER_04 22:53

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:54

I know it's and that like that's whenever I'm like, oh brother. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:59

It's like I've I've heard that.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

And have you heard like and you can and I mean they've done like they've recorded modern opera singers on um on, you know, like really old recording technology, and it's like, oh yeah, you can tell the difference that the recording technology makes. And it's not as drastically different, in my opinion. The modern singer uh the you know, the few that I saw this video, it was like a f they took a few different ones. And it's like, oh yeah, like the the thing where the vibrato doesn't like really register in the on the recording like you hear in old recordings, like that was, but you know, you got it from a from a more expensive microphone and you hear the consistent vibrato just not coming through. Wow. So things like that that I'm like I'm I'm a little bit skeptical of that, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 23:58

It's I think there's a lot more room for gray than either side is willing to talk about.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

And that makes it so much more complicated. Oh my god, yeah. It's like, oh my god, it's dying. Opera's dying, we just need to do this one thing, and it's like that's not that's where that's where I'm like, okay, well, if you feel like it's not the way that it was, why? And well, the singing is different, is not enough to me. Because at the end of the end of the day, the art form is the same. You know, somebody singing over an orchestra unamplified, telling a story. Like that's the same. The singing technique, I don't know. Like I re I resonate with modern singers.

SPEAKER_06 24:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:44

And I mean, you know, every singer is so different. The answer is not they just need to sound like they did back then. You know, I think it's a lot more complicated than that.

SPEAKER_04 24:54

When you described the sound of someone um just trying to replicate the old recording sounds, yeah. I immediately what immediately came to mind was like, oh, it I feel like everyone's just suffering from the same problem, which like I'm just gonna go ahead and call like vocal objectification.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:12

Of like, let's find this perfect sound. Like I've talked about it a couple times up here, I think, but like let's find that perfect sound, and then no one is actually saying anything because people are just thinking about it.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

About how they're singing, yes, the micromanaging.

SPEAKER_04 25:26

And like there are so many studies done at this point that tell you how important external focus is when you're doing a complex motor function like singing.

SPEAKER_03 25:37

Yeah, because if you're just thinking about each even if it's like yeah, what no matter what aesthetic taste you're ascribing to, it's like the thing, the voice is tuned by emotion. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 25:49

And I've had people be like, Cameron, what are you saying? Like, why do you think acting is like so important for the singing? Like at the end of the day, they have to get the technical stuff down first. And like, yes, I I think there is a technical original coordination that needs to happen to make singing feel easy and then make you a believable actor.

SPEAKER_03 26:04

They go together for sure, but inform one another.

SPEAKER_04 26:09

There is no art making until you get out of your own brain of until you get out of your own singer brain. And I think there's people that think they've stepped outside of it and they think like can I be honest? Sometimes I get really frustrated when this is gonna be a really hot take. I get really frustrated. Sometimes you gotta think about the high notes, like sometimes. Yeah, but at the end of the day, I think the high note's not gonna come out unless you're like really thinking about saying the word that you're saying when you're singing the high note. And the does do you get what I'm saying? I get frustrated when people are like, well, yes, like think about your acting and like get into character, but like also it's totally fine if you need to think about this note every now and again. I get really frustrated when that happens because that means you're not there's still a part of you that is scared, and there's still a part of you that wants to control how this goes. There's a like, yes, when you're performing, you have to lead an audience and make something good for them. I understand. Uh but audiences don't come to hear you sing, they come to see you live.

SPEAKER_03 27:17

Sing, yeah, they don't come to see hear you sing this type of ah vowel on uh F4 or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 27:24

They come to see you live.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:26

That's what audiences. And that's why I think opera's irrelevant.

SPEAKER_03 27:30

Interesting. Interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:34

I think but I I also agree with what you're saying. I think it's a million things. I think that's like a big chunk, though. And I think it the vocal objectification on either side.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

I think you can ascribe to whatever aesthetic taste you want and surely there are some singers that are doing what you're saying that are doing well.

SPEAKER_04 27:50

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

Do you want to shout them out?

SPEAKER_04 27:53

Oh, like specific singers that are like doing that to you well.

SPEAKER_03 27:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:57

Oh my gosh. I'm trying to think.

SPEAKER_03 28:00

That one soprano that you like a lot is the one I'm thinking of. Oh my gosh, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 28:04

Oh, Chelsea.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:05

Oh my god. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:06

Chelsea Linnae.

SPEAKER_04 28:08

Chelsea Linnea. And here's what I'll also say. Oh also, please tell me if I'm saying it wrong. Linnea? I'm actually like not entirely sure. Yeah. But yeah. She I could watch her over and over again. And I know I'm not alone when I say this. All the girls, they're talking about her. The girls are talking about Chelsea. And but I will also say something that is worth noting. She like has like an older aesthetic preference and taste. And the reason I lean that way as well is because I know there's a certain ease that comes with a lot of the ways they were thinking about teaching back then.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

I don't think of that as necessarily the characteristics of an older technique, like an old, like old school singing.

SPEAKER_04 28:46

Really?

SPEAKER_03 28:47

What she does. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely different.

SPEAKER_04 28:49

Like the registration. It's definitely different.

SPEAKER_03 28:51

Like, yeah, bringing the bringing the chess voice up really high, which I like a lot. And I guess I guess that is something that is part of like the old school.

SPEAKER_04 28:59

This is fun to talk about with you. But there was just more chest involved in the mix.

SPEAKER_03 29:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:04

Chest involvement.

SPEAKER_03 29:05

I think that's more relevant for sopranos.

SPEAKER_04 29:09

Really? I don't know enough about them to talk about the channel.

SPEAKER_03 29:12

Because tenor bass is just singing chess with the channel. Yeah. Yeah. Unless you're like a counter tenor or a specific kind of yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:20

Yeah, there is certain things to be said about like um afab, like vocal registration, because I like what's nice is I think it's entered the popular sphere to talk about oh my god, everyone's carrying their head voice too far down. That has definitely like, and I'm so glad that's uh something all the girls can talk about now. Like, thank God.

SPEAKER_03 29:40

Yeah. Um I talk about that with my Soprano Mezzo students.

SPEAKER_04 29:43

But I think even then the break gets misassessed. Like there can be more chest involvement, not in a pushy way, but in like a I'm simply talking like this up here way, and there's more chest that can be accessed than speaking the text.

SPEAKER_03 29:59

Admitted.

SPEAKER_04 30:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:01

So I don't know. This is real technical shit.

SPEAKER_05 30:04

Like we're never gonna talk about technique on this podcast.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

Yeah, whatever. I don't know how much yeah. I mean, I think about like I think about, especially like with high notes, and maybe that's why I can't sing them, but uh like I think about emotional affect more than good. Like the Ken Bozeman thing. It's like the I want my mommy. Like when you're saying thinking about to keep it. Yeah, just yeah, just like like really feeling really feeling these emotional affects that are like I want my mommy when you're saying hi, or like um the crying feeling. Yeah, yeah, the crying feeling, or just the hell yeah kind of feeling. I'm thinking about that more than just more than text.

SPEAKER_06 30:52

Good.

SPEAKER_03 30:52

Because I'm thinking about vowel. I'm thinking about vowel and emotional character. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 30:57

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

So so I feel like I feel like I kind of split the difference because I'm not I'm not thinking about technique as well exactly what you're talking about. I need to I need to pull in my abdominal muscles and I need to shape my mouth this way. I'm thinking I need to do this vowel with this emotional affect.

SPEAKER_04 31:13

So it's kind of like a little bit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:17

Yeah, and I feel like it's splitting the difference between thinking about like technique, like I need to hold my blah blah blah and this blah blah blah, and I need to breathe in and make sure my ribs are whatever. Like I'm not thinking about that. I'm thinking about like trying to tune, like like tune the vowel. Um tune the vowel and be connected with this emotional affect. I feel like. And that that's what that's what I feel like works best for me, you know.

SPEAKER_04 31:46

I think there's some old school nuggets in there.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

Yeah, I think it's kind of I think it's kind of both. Because it is like science informed. Yes, like it is part of the like vowel migration.

SPEAKER_04 31:55

We could say like why any of the old school singers like what they were doing was working. Like we could like sit here and but like I so agree with what you're saying about when they're like, and now I will breathe this way, and now I will d uh hold this in this way, and now I will uh that will be a little bit more than a little bit. Well, I think that's part of temporary singing. That is the detriment.

SPEAKER_03 32:13

And I think the reason that is is because of like audition and competition culture. Like that's what's focused on.

SPEAKER_04 32:21

It's about control.

SPEAKER_03 32:22

And I've I've been lucky that like I've gotten a I've done probably I've honestly probably done more equal or more roles than I've done auditions.

SPEAKER_04 32:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:32

Which is like crazy.

SPEAKER_04 32:34

But um Oh, when you're a good singer and you're a good person, that's how it goes for you sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 32:39

I've been lucky to be in the right place when somebody needs a whatever, you know. Um but like the idea of I need to replicate this every time. So my blah blah blah needs to be, I need to go through the checklist. My ribs are blah, my blah is blah, my blah blah blah. My tongue is blah, my tongue is blah, my cheeks are blah, my eyebrows are blah. This was our entire degree. Like and I and I feel like that works well for competitions because you get this thing, you get this thing that's like, and I'm going to do this pose here, and I'm gonna do this pose.

SPEAKER_04 33:09

You know what you have perceived control. You know what's not interesting to audiences?

SPEAKER_03 33:18

Interesting, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:20

Sorry. I'm also saying this as someone who's super like Meisner stoked right now, and like everything about Meisner is like letting go and not predicting. And I think Meisner trained people are some of the most interesting and captivating people to watch. Like, that's why I admire the technique so much. Like, yeah, I think there's like ways to blend the types of acting styles and blah blah blah, but like going in there and and knowing that everything's allowed to be informed by however you feel in the moment.

SPEAKER_06 33:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:49

And people are like, why is this so interesting to watch? And it's like, they don't know what's gonna happen. Like, but that's the problem, is people think they can control their way to the to the top, the perceived top of the industry.

SPEAKER_03 34:00

Well, and you know, if and the top wants you to control like you're if your first audition you do this, and then your second audition, you do it again the same way, and your third audition you do it again the same way. It's like, you know, that's a solid that's a solid product.

SPEAKER_04 34:16

There it is. Sure. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 34:19

And I think that's interesting to a point.

SPEAKER_04 34:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 34:21

But it's very different doing that for two songs versus doing that for three hours in a roll. Yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 34:29

My brain just went to the Broadway people, and this is me pontificating, like, hmm.

SPEAKER_03 34:33

Could also be me just being lazy.

SPEAKER_04 34:35

Well well, Broadway people, they have to have their their shit on right to go out and do that eight times a week and like belt the whatever the hell.

SPEAKER_03 34:45

Doing four shows in a weekend for me was like I learned a lot doing that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:50

But like, I think there are certain things certain things in contemporary teaching and contemporary like whatever the hell is going on, um, that aren't aren't the technique that was that opera was started with or just is. Yeah. And sometimes I'm like, damn, I think the MT singers are like, well, I mean it starts closer. Sometimes the MT singers are closer with how they were starting. So and that's how they're able to do the eight shows a week, and I'm so for real. Yeah, like yeah, they have mics.

SPEAKER_03 35:17

And it starts, but it started a long time before 1930, 1920, so you know, which is what people are like, oh, the old school are talking about. And then they'll be like, Oh, Caruso is before then. It's like, yeah, sure, but like and uh who's the who's the other guy? Who's the the guy that wrote the book we sang better? No, no. I forget the Italian guy that wrote the book.

SPEAKER_04 35:48

24 Italian ice.

SPEAKER_03 35:49

Oh, it was like it's like a vocal, it's like a vocal technique book. It's like credited as one of the earliest ones.

SPEAKER_05 35:58

I am a fake singer. I don't know anything.

SPEAKER_03 36:02

You would know it if I said it, but I'm just having a brain brain fart, right?

SPEAKER_04 36:06

He's having a brain. Guys, he's having a brain.

SPEAKER_03 36:08

Sorry, my brain fell out. What's possible? If I only had a brain.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Alright. We're back.

SPEAKER_03 36:17

We're back.

SPEAKER_05 36:17

We're back.

SPEAKER_03 36:19

What is that? What is that thing that I like?

SPEAKER_05 36:21

Oh my baby back, baby back, baby back.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

Oh, my baby back, baby back, baby back, baby back. Oh, my baby back, baby back, baby back, baby back. Chili's baby back ribs. Chili's baby back ribs.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

Mobile cube sauce.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

Chili's baby back ribs. Chili's baby back ribs. I want my baby back ribs. You know the whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 36:52

Yeah, I uh I I wanted to go to Chili's one day. And uh I texted Coley while she was at work. I learned that whole thing and sent her that as a voice memo. It took me like it took me like like two minutes.

SPEAKER_05 37:11

I just know she opened her phone and felt blessed that day. Yeah. That's so beautiful. She's like, Thank God I married a musician. Well that's what it's for. That's what the degree's for.

SPEAKER_04 37:24

It was charming.

SPEAKER_03 37:25

Whatever.

SPEAKER_04 37:26

I'm passionate about chilies. Um, that was the first restaurant I ever went to, actually. My parents used to go to Chili's somewhat regularly in the early 2000s.

SPEAKER_06 37:35

And I was Chili's order.

SPEAKER_04 37:37

I don't know what it was when I was zero years old, but yeah, because I was really little.

SPEAKER_05 37:41

I was literally a newborn baby.

SPEAKER_03 37:42

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 37:43

And I was in Chili's. Thanks, Mom.

SPEAKER_03 37:45

Hitting up the the Margs.

SPEAKER_05 37:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 37:49

The happy hour mars.

SPEAKER_04 37:50

Yeah, I was there for the $5 margs. Don't worry about it. Um well, obviously the triple dipper.

SPEAKER_03 37:55

The triple dipper.

SPEAKER_04 37:56

Yes. And I'll always get the mozzarella situation.

unknown 37:59

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 38:00

Yeah, they're the best ones.

SPEAKER_03 38:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:02

They're the best ones.

SPEAKER_03 38:03

So expensive.

SPEAKER_04 38:04

The triple dipper?

SPEAKER_03 38:05

We get the we get the the ten dollar thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:08

The three for ten or something.

SPEAKER_03 38:10

Three for me, yeah. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_04 38:12

Fierce. I've done that before. Uh the most common time I'm going to Chili's is after the rent fair with my best friend.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_04 38:18

But it was very fierce and fun.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

Do you have a Chili's out here?

SPEAKER_04 38:21

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

Where's it? Where is it at?

unknown 38:23

Great question.

SPEAKER_04 38:24

I almost don't know. Oh, yeah, we definitely got one out in Shamrock. Probably. Every suburb's got a good Chili's there.

SPEAKER_03 38:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:30

I got so scared it wasn't recording for seconds. No, we should be good. But the seconds are moving so slowly.

SPEAKER_03 38:35

It's so funny how how dramatic of a shift.

SPEAKER_05 38:40

We said the opera industry is screwed. And then we said, we love chilies. Awama baby back baby back baby back. I love that you know the whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 38:49

Yeah, it's I only know the Alabama Baby Back.

SPEAKER_05 38:52

It's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 38:53

They're singing too.

SPEAKER_05 38:55

I know. I mean, I want to sing like that.

SPEAKER_03 38:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:58

I want to get on that level.

SPEAKER_03 38:59

Yeah. I remember hearing that whenever I was little and being like, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:11

I think that might be one of my favorite things you've ever said, actually. You've said a lot of good things.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

That's earlier, like I was like one of my favorite songs we were talking about earlier.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 39:25

I love that song. That's one of my favorite. That's probably my favorite instrumental piece of music.

SPEAKER_05 39:41

Same thing, it's the same song.

SPEAKER_03 39:44

It's so good.

SPEAKER_05 39:45

It's the truth.

SPEAKER_03 39:46

I could do funny. I could do funny voices singing Aryas all the time. That's fun. The bass baritones are fun.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

Trying to think.

SPEAKER_03 40:03

I love that.

SPEAKER_05 40:05

I love when Kevin becomes a 90-year-old. It's one of my favorite things.

SPEAKER_03 40:08

Oh, yeah, that's good too.

SPEAKER_04 40:11

There's a few of a few different 90-year-olds. No, I know.

SPEAKER_05 40:16

This is all we've got, guys. This is all we have left.

SPEAKER_03 40:20

Okay, who are the 90-year-olds?

SPEAKER_05 40:23

You know what we were talking about like literally two minutes ago? We were talking about that TikTok video of um Yes.

SPEAKER_04 40:28

Uh do you remember the creator's name?

SPEAKER_03 40:30

Zach Zach. Something.

SPEAKER_04 40:32

Um, where he puts on the bald cap and he's like he's he's like play.

SPEAKER_05 40:41

But he's got the gray lady wig on and like the glasses, and he's like, POV, you're singing next to the old people in church, and I'm like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:49

Kate and I both felt very seen.

SPEAKER_03 40:50

Yeah. Did I ever tell you about when I did a church gig in Kentucky? And I I was like singing bass for this like church cantata. This is funny.

SPEAKER_05 41:00

You do all these church cantatas.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

This is this is a a while ago.

SPEAKER_05 41:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 41:04

And uh it was like there was like eight, eight guys, like eight, eight old, old guys singing in this church choir. I feel bad if if anybody that knows this choir is watching. It was a great time. I had a great time. But uh the this guy came up to me, this old guy came up to me, and he was like, uh, so you're singing bass? I said, uh yeah, I'm singing bass. Well, that's great, because we all we gotta hear is tenors with the with the old man, the high old man voice. They only had tenors.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

What the hell?

SPEAKER_03 41:35

I think it was something about this regional dialect where oh man.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

Everybody talks up here. The old man talked like this, and they didn't have anything able to that.

SPEAKER_03 41:44

It was awesome. It was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

That is awesome. Yeah, the quack.

SPEAKER_03 41:48

There was like a lot of them. Like there was like there was like eight of them.

SPEAKER_05 41:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 41:51

And they're all tenors. I'm like, yeah, man. Like something about the regional dialect of this little church in Kentucky made it impossible for bassists.

SPEAKER_04 42:04

It's kind of great to develop.

SPEAKER_03 42:07

Oh, it's so fun. Yeah, it was great. It was fun.

SPEAKER_04 42:09

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 42:10

There was another bass that came in and sang to You were totally alone. No, I wasn't totally alone. And it was a lot of fun. I had a great time. So fun.

SPEAKER_05 42:18

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 42:19

Yeah, nice people. Very nice.

SPEAKER_04 42:20

I love a church gig. I love getting paid to sing and I love helping people sing more comfortably.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

I like the church gigs that are like that. That like you go into just, you know, with a prayer.

SPEAKER_04 42:32

We're going in with a prayer, and maybe we're leaving with one.

SPEAKER_03 42:35

That's great. Take a prayer, leave a prayer.

SPEAKER_04 42:39

That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 42:41

Oh, that's funny.

SPEAKER_04 42:42

I don't know. I uh I miss doing 'em. I find that my day job is taking up a lot of my Sundays. But like I can always, if I have enough notice ahead of time, I'm able to get them off and still sub from time to time. You sub from time to time.

SPEAKER_03 42:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:57

That's nice that you have a regular gig, but then you can also still sub.

SPEAKER_03 43:00

Yeah, it's like on the game.

SPEAKER_04 43:01

Because yours only is on like every once every three weeks.

SPEAKER_03 43:04

Uh mine is like it's different. Like they send out a a schedule, but it's like we usually sing like three out of four weekends. And sometimes it rotates, sometimes more, sometimes less. But yeah, we're regular. We're regularly have some Sundays off with the regular sometimes. We're regular.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

We're regular.

SPEAKER_03 43:24

Yeah. Regular.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

We're regular.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

Regular daggler. I was thinking of regular daggler.

unknown 43:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:33

On the way here.

SPEAKER_05 43:34

I say that frequently. Regular daggler. Regular daggler.

SPEAKER_03 43:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:39

Do you say regular daggler or regular dagger?

SPEAKER_03 43:41

Regular daggler. I don't know.

unknown 43:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 43:43

Regular daggler. I don't I don't think I say it. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 43:48

Guys, we love you guys.

SPEAKER_03 43:51

You're like a sickness to us. Just can't get ready yet. Please, we're not trying to get rid of you.

SPEAKER_05 44:02

Please stay. We love hanging out.

SPEAKER_03 44:03

All fifteen of you.

SPEAKER_05 44:04

We love hanging out with y'all. It's so fun. Shooting shit. We love you guys so bad. And we'll talk to you soon.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

Yeah. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Bye.