Oversharing About Divorce, Coparenting & New Beginnings W/ Makenna Brown

In this episode of Moms & Margs Uncensored, we’re oversharing about divorce, coparenting, and new beginnings with our guest Makenna Brown, a mom of two navigating life after divorce with honesty, strength, and a whole lot of grace.

Mckenna opens up about what coparenting really looks like, the emotional highs and lows of starting over, and how she’s finding beauty, growth, and peace in this new chapter. This conversation is raw, uplifting, and full of perspective for anyone walking through change whether you’re divorced, coparenting, or simply learning how to rebuild your life in a healthier way.

If you’ve ever wondered if life after divorce can actually be beautiful… this episode is for you.

Transcript

0:00

I'm court and I'm Jess and mom. And this is Moms and Marks Uncensored. Hi. Hi. I don't know if you guys know this, if you're listening, we have a guest in the house, our first guest. She is 29, divorced two kids and hotter than ever. So where do we go with that? Well, should we introduce her? Yeah, I think we should. This is Miss McCann. Hello. Thank you for having me. Course. I'm so happy. I know. I'm so excited to be here. So fun. So we are gonna bring you in. We do highs and lows every week. So let's start with you. What's your high this week? Wait, first, what are we drinking? Oh, what are we drinking? Because we're drinking different things. We are, we are. Um, I am doing a little mocktail moment of a spicy margarita. Mm-hmm. I think it's strawberry pomegranate. Blood orange. Blood orange. Perfect. Mm-hmm. Perfect. Yep. S orange. Spicy goodness. I love a spicy mark. Mm-hmm. And then we have, we are on martinis still. Um, so we have a salted caramel espresso martini at the request of Courtney. Of course. Why not? That makes a good one. It's always, always good salted caramel way to go. Right. I don't wanna give up the holidays quite yet, you know? I know. It gives like a holiday drink. Is is the move. It is. But now we wanna hear about your high and low week. Yes. High and low. I know my low, I had a very rough day with my daughter yesterday. Probably the roughest day that I've had with her in her four years of life. Ugh, that's the worst. So I think that just crowded the whole day. Set the tone for a shitty, a shitty day for sure. But. We got through it and we're, we woke up today and we're good. It's a new day. We're back. One of those like where you're exhausted. She's exhausted. Yeah. Just the like uncontrollable tantrum hitting, just all like out of the ordinary things. Yeah. But just, mm-hmm. She had a rough day. She just today or yesterday was not her day. So Well, and it's so hard to not, like, as a mom, like get frustrated or like take it personal for me. Like I just feel like, I'm always like, why are you doing this? Yeah. Like, what is the deal? I know. And she's also just so, she's really just a good kid. She understands. She's older, she's four and she's the first born. But she gets it. Yeah. She's really good. She listens, she's responsible. All the things. So when she has a hard day. I'm like, what's happening? Like why, what's going on? Yeah. Because you're very out of the ordinary right now. Yeah. And when it gets like really chaotic like that, I just don't know what to do. Yeah. With her especially. So that's rough. Little rough. Yeah. But my high is, we had a really great weekend. Um, we went to church and we did a little trampoline park, which I never do, so I was very proud of myself for that. All the germs kind of steer me away. Yeah. I was gonna ask, what's the reason I have my reasoning why I don't really do trampoline park. Yeah. They're fun. They're fun. You don't wanna get double jump. You don't wanna break a bone by a kid, by some 5-year-old. Honestly, I'm not a dare double. I am, but not a broken bone. I not, I actually love a trampoline park, honestly. Have you guys been a slick city? What the hell is slick city? What is that? Are you serious? It's over on this side of town, so it's on like 83rd and Thunderbird, I think though. Um, so like 83rd and Thunderbird and it's, think of water slides. Okay. Like the, like the toilet bowl one, you know, like the Oh yeah, no, like the whatever. All indoors and no water. No water. You have like a carpet. Mm-hmm. Like, and like you go down on your belly, you're lain, you're, that's if I have like a carpet, you're Aladdin going down, run this place like a carpet. Yeah. Yeah. You and your carpet is walk around the park and it's so fun. They have a halfpipe one, like you go straight down Yeah. On a halfpipe and it's like, it's so, I love that. You'll have to check that out. It seems a lot safer than bouncing around on trampolines. Yeah. I, that it's way, it's way safer. And like they have like the slow moving, you know? Like what? Like it's straight up water slides indoors, no water. It's so fun. Yeah. That's on our side of town. Yeah, it's a fun summer activity when it's degrees out. Yeah, it is nice. What's your high and low? My high. Um, I think I'm gonna steal yours. We just talked about it a little bit, but I did wash my hair today and that's always an accomplishment. I put it off for a while, but then I just like feel better when I actually do wash it. So I did that. Very, very proud low is that my daughter is going outta town tomorrow for like four days. Oh yeah. Um, yeah. I'm. Don't really know what I'm gonna, but shouldn't that be part of your high? Because you said you and I were gonna do something. I know. Now you have free time. Get together. So hang on a second. We'll get together. Of course. Know that as it's a high, it's a high, it's bittersweet. Yeah. Yeah. There we go. It's bittersweet. Yeah. We don't like being away from our kids, but we do love a good break, but we wanna be away from 'em, but we love a good break. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Every so often we're girls, so we don't know what we want. Yeah. I only call her a million times when she's gone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What are you, whatcha are doing? Yeah. What about you? Oh, my high. Well, I was gonna say I did my hair and makeup today, but, um, my high would be, it's been a very productive week and I love being productive. So after the holidays, it's hard to get back into the groove, but I, I'm there. Um, my low, what is my low? Hmm. I don't really know. I don't, I guess I'm in like a dilemma of like what to do for the weekend. That's not really, that's a really generic low, but like it's a three day weekend and my husband never gets three day weekends. Like he works six days a week, you know, 60 hours a week, but he actually has a three day weekend. Amazing. Nice. So I'm like, it would be nice to just like stay home and do nothing. But then my parents are like going camping out of town and I'm like, Ooh, that sounds fun. But whenever you go out of town on a three day weekend, it goes by like this. Yeah, yeah. And that's just kind of, I'm like, traffic, I don't know what to do. Yeah. We were never big campers growing up, but we always, I saw your post. Yeah, I did. Can you tell, do I look like a camper? When I say camping, I mean I need a big ass motor home. That's what I asked. Yeah. I used to shower. I need Yeah, comfy couches to lay on sleep on beds. Something like. So this is gonna sound a little braggy, but like that is why like, well, like that, that's, I'm okay. We do a lot of camping. Mm-hmm. And like a lot of outdoor, but we have a massive motor home. Yeah. With a shower and a like. Right. I love that. Like a memory foam mattress. Yeah. And like, oh yeah, I live luxury in the woods. I will do it. I mean, not the first place I would choose to go, but Yeah. Not, not the first vacation spot. Yeah. Right. I have lot of other vacation spots in mind for a three weekend, but I do have a lot of friends that love it and they, yeah. Yeah. My husband wants to go tent camping. I said, you'll never, oh no. See, you'll have to find a new wife and you'll have to do that with her because there's no way you will ever, there is not an option in any world where I am. No, I'm like anything, not just. Freaking creepos. I just go to the worst. I'm like, some fucking psycho kidnapper is coming for me in my tent. You can't believe I'm like, there's bears out there. There's a bear snake. One paw on that thing. Yeah, you're done. No, I'll say we used to at the dunes sleep in the bed of Taylor's truck. Um, back in. I didn't do it. I can maybe do that 'cause we, I think we used to do that at the lake sometimes. I don't know how drunk am I to be able to do it. Yeah. Maybe I just need to like pass out. If I'm blacked out, then I'm totally for that. Like, catch me there. I can totally do that. Yeah. It's so funny. Now I appreciate the bed. Yeah. No, but that's a generic low. But like, I, I can't figure out what kind of plan. And then it's always like, I have this guilty thing of like, okay, then I choose it. I'm like, Nope, we're gonna stay home as a family. And then they're out having fun. And I have super fomo. So, or you're like, we could have been busy and like productive. Yeah. Like it doesn't turn out to be like the stay home that you wanted. Like river's throwing a tantrum. Yeah. Tyler and I are like at, you know, like, mm-hmm. We're just not vibing. And I'm like, you're like better early. And it's like, what are we, yeah. Should went freaking camping, bro. I would rather got fucking attacked by a bear right now than been here. Honestly. Glad that, yeah. I should have came with bear spray. Yeah. Great. But no. Um, okay, so we wanna get to know McKenna a little bit. I mean, some people saw the Instagram, but if you didn't, we're gonna do a little quick fire. Okay. Okay. So I'll ask her one, you ask her the other. Um, how many kids and ages? Yes. I have two kids. One boy, one girl. My son is two and a half. He'll be three this year, which is insane. And then my daughter is four. She'll be five this year. Yeah. Fun ages. It's a good age gap, I feel like. Yeah. They're I think 21 months apart, which is good. My sister and I were almost four, three and a half, which seemed like just a little too far. Yeah. We also were two girls, so that's a whole different dynamic. Oh yeah. All girls in the family. So having a boy has been fun. Just learning that. But the age difference is good 'cause they're close enough, but they're still mm-hmm. Yeah. Still that, that gap. Nice. And relationship status. Yeah. I am in a relationship. Ooh. Ooh. We're starting off juicy. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. Hear more. Um, one word to describe mom life currently, current mom life. I would say exhausting. I think every, I mean, everybody would say that, but as they get older and just the activities, the school, the back and forth, dropping off here, picking up there, remembering everything for school, just mm-hmm. You know, it's, it's just, it can be very exhausting among all of the other things we have to do in life. Yeah. That sounds, and obviously we'll get into it, but like you have the co-parenting element Yeah. Added in there. Yeah. So like, there is, you know, like there's a whole nother schedule, there's level, you know, yeah. There's another level to it. Also, just regular momming, which is exhausting even if you have the best day. Yeah. And we'll dive into that. Um, but obviously like you are still just McKenna, you know, like you're, you're also you. So how would you describe yourself in three words? Yeah, I think I am very driven. I want to get things accomplished. I feel. Accomplished when I do things. Um, so I think driven is a good word. I'm also very thoughtful. I pride myself on my friendships and how I am with my friends. Um, I love gift giving. It's my love language, so, oh, me too. If I can add a little gift or something in there, I definitely will. And then resilient. I have been through a lot of shit, and I'm not ashamed to say it, and I am like, I'm just better because of it and I've stuck it out and I survived. So I feel like that's a mentality that I have to not like, oh, all this shit happened to me and that's why I'm not doing this, this, and this, right? But like, no, I've been through shit and it's made me better and that's why I am the way that I am. Yeah. And you have a choice. Yeah. You can make, you can wake up every day and make a choice to make your life better than what it was. I think sometimes people get stuck in, this is just the way my life is. Yeah. There's nothing I can do about it. It's not about the cards that you're dealt, it's how you play the hand. Yeah. Yep. Always a hundred percent. And I think that gets lost a lot. Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. Especially in our generation. Yeah. And just like, you know, life is, life is hard. Yeah. Yeah. So, alright, I'm gonna go lighter. What's your favorite coffee order? Ooh, just a good medium size. Usually iced vanilla latte without milk and a little cinnamon on top. Ooh. Yeah. It's quick. It's easy. It's usually pretty consistent. Okay. Starbucks though, I won't do a Starbucks one. Okay. I was gonna say this is, it's like layered, like, or like they, they don't mix it well. It'ss just not a good, it's not good from there. They're no, their espresso's good. I love their brown sugar shaken espresso thing, but not a latte to from there? No. I'm a Starbucks hater, so there are a lot of people. We've gotten some comments about that too. I get it. People don't like that. I don't care. I don't like Starbucks and I freaking stand true to that. My mom doesn't either get over it. Yeah. I feel like if you're a Starbucks person, you don't like any other places. Like if you're like a diehard Starbucks Yeah. You're like, oh, I hate BlackRock. I hate Dutch Bros. And then like, if you like BlackRock and Dutch Bros. In those places, you're usually not a Starbucks like Right. It's a one or the other. There's, they're, they all taste so different too. Yeah. So I feel like liking them all is hard. Yeah, definitely. It is. Yeah. Yeah. But coffee's important. Okay. Yeah. I'm a 1, 2, 3 cup a day kind of girl. Oh, me too. I'm gonna leave here and go get an iced coffee. Yeah. Like that's four o'clock rolls around and I'm like, I think I need a coffee. Yeah. And I've had two already today. You know, it's just like a little, little afternoon treat. You need it, I need, it gets me, I'll always justify it. Yeah. I don't care what I have to do. I need a coffee at the end of the day. Yes. I'm like, I always tell Taylor, I'm like, all right, you, you get your zens, and I don't question that. Yeah. I pay for my coffee meal, like, right. That's, that's, I'm not, I'm never gonna budget, like I'm never that mind's a business, bro. Yeah, I know. What about your favorite pastime or hobby? Um, ooh, I kind of have a lot. I, right now, currently I've really been into like, coloring, just like a good coloring book with like adult markers, you know, like really nice acrylic markers. Like the kids aren't allowed to touch, you know? Oh yeah. Just for mom and just getting a fun adult coloring book and that sounds fun. It's very fun. Yeah. Colored pencils like it, it's wild how you can just dive into it and Yeah. Time is like a. That's actually, that's fine. That's funny because the other day I was trying to be more intentional about like spending time with River and not being on my phone and working and like, no, if I'm going like hang out with him, I'm gonna give him a hundred percent. Right. And he wanted to color and I like, I was doing like the outline of the Cray and then I got the color pencil was doing the shade and then he came up and did this whole squiggle and I almost had like a level three toddler meltdown that he has. I was like, you can't do that. I know. Like, that's not cool. Right? That's not right. You just messed up. My picture looked amazing. Amazing. And you messed it up, right? Tyler's like, you're really into this. I'm like, I think I'm right. Yeah. I could see it being really therapeutic. I found a hobby. Yeah. And they have so many fun adult books like they do, especially Target. Yeah. Yeah. And And they are weirdly expensive for just being a coloring book, but hey, that's one of my other little things I'll just spend the money on to. Yeah. Maybe you should create your own and buy them. I've thought about that. Like people will buy this. I am a very entrepreneurial. Kind of go. Yeah, I will look into that. It's a good business venture. We'll, I, we'll see. Yeah, we'll see how goes. Maybe after this podcast, more people will get into coloring and then Yeah. I'll have a need for it. Yeah. There'll be a, there's a need in the market. Right. I'll have a for it. Perfect. All right. So I know you said you're in a relationship, but, um, what's the, like current status of it? Is it complicated? Is it smooth? What's the Yeah, I think I have grown a lot, just in general as everybody has. Into knowing what I want for myself. Yeah. In a relationship, you know, kind of when you're younger you get into relationships and there's issues, but you don't really know what the issue is. Right. Um, so right now we are, we're thriving right now. We are definitely very happy, but we've had our fair share of struggles, you know? Yeah. We've, weve had some time apart. Um, just to really get back on track on what we need for ourselves. I think knowing what you want for yourself first is so important. And they always say like, loving yourself before you can love somebody else is important to do. Mm-hmm. And you skip that part a lot. Right. You just love and it's like, it's like limes, like you just like need that you're like lustful and all of those things in the beginning and you forget that you have work to do on yourself and then you expect more from them and they can't give you what you need to be happy. And yeah. So we've learned a lot of lessons. Um, we are great communicators and I really pride us on that 'cause we are very good at communicating and just listening to each other, but we have not gone without troubles and, yeah. Yeah. Chaos for sure. So we are in a good place now. Um, we've never really not been in a good place, but yeah, we're happy. Good, really happy. Thanks to that communication though. Yeah, for sure. And I think that's, that's everything you really, if you guys can like, you know, meet each other on that same level and talk through those things and you're able to just open up about like your feelings and where you're at. And I obviously don't know where your ex and you know, like your past relationship ended and like if that was a downfall, but like Right. If you can come and just like open up your heart and talk about those things. Yeah, I think that that's massive because so many relationships don't have that, you know, they kinda just brush things under the rug or we'll get over it and then it, I mean, it's a recipe for disaster. So. Yeah, for sure. And I think pride has a lot to do with it. I've learned a lot sometimes just being prideful and not wanting, like not wanting to. Admit where you're wrong. Mm-hmm. And I struggle with that. Yeah. That's hard. It's hard for anybody. I do, I do do. It sounds bad, but like, and, and I, and I think communication goes so much farther than just a relationship, but even like I'm learning now with my son. Mm-hmm. Like sometimes my communication with him lacks, you know, like I'm just expecting him to like know what I want him to do and how I want him to do it. And it's like, that's not, he's three. Yeah. Like what do you come on? Right. But it's like your friendships, your relationships, your family, like anything like with your kids, like communication is like one of the biggest foundations that if you can like, tackle that and master that. Mm-hmm. And put your pride aside and be like, mm-hmm. Yo, I was kind of off there. Yeah. Or I had a moment and I was wrong, or I will work on that. You, it means something to you, so I'm gonna work on it. Right. Yeah. That's big. But question for the both of you then, because like, I feel like at, at least in my case, like I found that like I was able to put my pride aside once my. Daughter, like my daughter kind of brought that out in me. Mm-hmm. Like where, like I was able to, like, if I like overreacted, like, or like if I'm having a really hard day, I'm like, I, I have, it's easy for me to go to her and say like, Hey, I'm sorry. Yeah. Like, I, I reacted this way. I'm so sorry. Like, that was outta left field. Um, but like almost with my partner, it, like, I didn't do that before. Mm-hmm. Like with him, no, it was really hard for me to like, be like, Hey, like I'm PMSing or something. Yeah. Like, I like the way that I just came at you was wild and I'm so sorry that, like, I feel like I almost didn't learn that until I became a mom. Mm-hmm. Like, or like really hone in on like, that, that area of mine or like, I guess recognize it as an area of weakness. Um, because, you know, my, my partner's kind of quiet and just kind, you know. Yeah. Doesn't speak up too much. So like, I saw it in myself like once I was reacting a certain way with my daughter. Yeah. I've noticed too, I've been through therapy in life. Um, I've a handful of times and I've definitely noticed that when you have a partner. A lot of people are in competition with their partner. Yeah. And when you say sorry, or you admit you're wrong, you're like, it's one up defeat. You're, you're making defeat and it makes you lesser and that's not the case. Yeah. You know, at least for me, that's what I've experienced and what I've learned about myself is I've always kind of been in competition. So like, I'm not gonna say sorry. And yeah. I've also just always, I don't like saying, sorry, I've done it and I'm, you know, getting better, but I'm just, I don't like saying it. I don't wanna be the one to say it. Yeah. And I've kind of tried to grow out of that. We're in competition phase because we're not Yeah. And we're partners and we're there to support each other and hear each other out. And it's not a competition. Yeah. And if you say sorry a hundred times, I'll say it a hundred times back. Like it just, as long as we're both aware of our, our mistakes and admit when we're wrong and put our pride down, I think it all. It'll make things better. Yeah. So I'll be vulnerable. Tyler and I just had a phase where like we just weren't vibing. Yeah. Like I couldn't figure it out. And then just anything he did just annoyed me and I would just kind of like do like that passive aggressive, like kind of like nag at him about it, or just like, mm. Like, you know, and we literally had to sit down. I'm like, what? What's going on? Yeah. Like we just don't like each other right now. Like, I freaking love you. Right. But like, what is the deal? What? Like we've been in this two week thing where it just seems like I'm just like the nanny or something. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And like, I can't figure it out. You're not doing anything crazy. And I was like, I think that we're just like, we're acting like we're on opposite teams. Mm-hmm. Like, like whatever you do. I'm like, no, you did that and now you need to say sorry. Or you need to like, why are we doing that? You know? And I feel like that conversation alone just like helped us. He's like, no, you're right. Like, I don't know why we just got in this like mode of just like. Going at the other like, well I did this, well, I this, well, I picked up him and I did this. You know? And I think in like motherhood it's hard because you do so much, but you feel so little. Like appreciation. Yeah. Even if that's not like how people feel, you just feel like, oh my God, I'm navigating work, I'm navigating the kid, I'm cleaning the house, I'm trying to do all these things. And then your partner walks in and they've had a long day, but you want them to be like, whoa, like the house is cleaning laundry's done. You took care of River today. You took them here. Acknowledge everything you've done the entire day. Yeah. You went through 500 tantrums. Like, good for you. And if they don't, you're just automatically like, well fuck you. Yeah. You know? And then you create that illusion in your head that spirals into two weeks later, now we're at where we're at. Because you know, lack of communication. Yeah. Like it always, I feel like, goes back to that. So yeah. I mean, there's no question that. Communication is like the biggest foundation that you can stand on, I feel like. Yeah. It truly is. I feel like it gets you through pretty much anything and it, it allows you to be vulnerable, which then allows you to get closer to your partner. Yep. Um, and I've learned that I've and meeting your partner where they're at and not always expecting a hundred percent from them and Yep. You know, if they can only show up with 20, you cover the 80 for the day. Oh yeah. So I love that. Well, I love that and I love to hear that you guys are doing so good. Love that. Love, love. It's so cute. Oh, I, no, I love, love. I know. I'm such like, I'm, I'm such a romantic. Yeah. I love, love so much. Yeah. Um, and this is kind of a loaded question. Um, what would you say so, so far in life, like what is one of the biggest lessons that, that you've learned? I. I know it might sound cliche, but it doesn't matter what other people think. Yeah. Um, that part. Yeah. It's definitely situational, obviously. Yeah. Like, you know, with respect. But I think that's the biggest lesson of just, I've spent a lot of my life, younger life, when you're kind of figuring yourself out, almost doing things for other people's approval. Mm-hmm. Or not doing things because they won't approve of it. Mm-hmm. And it doesn't matter what they think. And, you know, it doesn't, I've been through a divorce and that was at a time shameful. And sometimes to some people it still is. And it's like, it doesn't matter what people think. That was the decision that I made. Yeah. And we made, and that's the way that my life is. And I'm not, I'm not ashamed of that, you know? Mm-hmm. And it just doesn't, it doesn't matter what people think. It doesn't matter what people think about you, what they say about you, if they don't know you, they, they can't speak on who you are. And so I think that's just like the biggest thing that I've really learned. And just try to stand by and just be myself and it doesn. It does matter. Can we fricking cheers to that? Because I here Oh, we're empty. Okay. Oh, you're both a Watch the box show. That's why we're doing a little slower over here. No, preach, preach, preach. I, I want everyone in life to learn that lesson. Yeah. Because it truly doesn't matter. There's like, it, if other people, like, if the fear of other people's opinions prevents you from doing like what you wanna do in life, then you need to take a beat. Like, yeah. You need to take a beat because Right. None of it matters. None of it matters. Like none. They don't, and it's all so cliche, and I hate that Pinterest took over this thought, because like, fucker, Pinterest, it's, it's like, if you don't pay my bills, like, or like, you know, whatever, like, I hate all of that. Yeah. But it's so valid and it's so true. Because like, this is your life. Yeah. Like, this is, these are your dreams. Who, who cares? Everyone's gonna have an, an opinion about absolutely everything. And like, but. Yeah, honestly, they all like, they might have an opinion for 10 seconds and then they move on to the next thing. They don't care about you, right? No one actually cares. Like they just have a quick opinion and then they're on to the next thing. Plus somebody with too many opinions. I just don't trust your opinion. I know. Exhausting. Why do you have, why are you so invested in everybody else that your job? Are you getting paid? Because if you're not getting paid, everybody, like, what are you doing at home? What? What's going on in your life? You know? But I literally just had a talk with my sister about this before. I said, you know what? Like, I think the whole goal of life. Is really like, to put it in a simple, simple way is to figure out what makes you happy. Yeah. Like, figure out a way to make yourself happy. And that doesn't mean making everyone else happy. Yeah. Like it just doesn't, like it's let me make myself happy first and then I'll pour into you. Yeah. But like instead, we live in a generation where we pour into everyone else and then we have nothing to give ourselves. And then we're like, oh, I'm so unhappy. Yeah. But I'm making all these people satisfied. And it's like, yeah, but that's not how you're supposed to live. So you come home and your cup's not filled. Yeah. Everybody else's, but then where's yours? You know? Yeah. And, and I think a lot of people that have all these opinions and they say all these things about you really don't ever even know the truth, or they don't know all truth. No. Or the facts. They see what you see on social media, which that's a whole separate thing that I just see in general, had my moments with that. But most of the time when they're saying things about you, they don't know. No, the whole extent, they're not privy to that information at your home, with your kids, with your family, with your work. And, and so to me, I've just learned like they don't know the depths of my life and my home and my relationships. And so they let them say it. Yeah. Let 'em, you know. Well, and it's like when you're making a serious decision, like you go to the people that mean most to you, right? Mm-hmm. And you're like, you kind of talk through it and then like even then you still hold the most weight on like what you think, right? Yeah. You wouldn't go to these people that have seen 10 seconds of your life and be like, Hey, I have a serious decision to make. Yeah. Idea. Can you help me make it's idea? Right? So it's like why we hold so much weight on what the fuck they think? Yeah. 'cause it's like Exactly. That's not where we're at and that's not what we're doing. And it's 2026 and just fucking leave it behind. I know. And I think too, what's hard is. Growing up with social media now, and I think back to when I was in high school, that phase of life, you're just kind of genuinely trying to impress each other, right? Like you're in high school, there's like cliques, there's groups, there's this, that's it. Yeah. You're like, that's, that's your whole life, right? Yeah. Like you come home and you eat dinner, go to bed, like you don't have all of those responsibilities, and so that's your life. That just kind of carries into social media, and then you see other people's highlight reels in their lives, and you have all these things that you compare it to. Yep. People talk and people see something and, and they just don't, it doesn't matter. Yeah. It doesn't, it doesn't matter. Well, and I'm sure it's exhausting and like we, we do it subconsciously, but like, we, like people probably romanticized your past relationship. Like Yeah, maybe. And like, they were, they were probably shocked, you know, like, or whatever. Mm-hmm. But you're like, you don't know. You don't know you only you, you only saw what I wanted you to see. And like, same thing with we, we do it unknowingly too to other people's relationships are. Right. I love reality tv. Mm-hmm. You know, we, we, we do it too just about everything. But, um, as long as you know you're happy, then that's what matters. Yeah. And like, because a happy mom mm-hmm. Breeds half happy kids. Yeah. Like, and then they have a happy home life. Yeah. And like, you know, they, they need a happy mom. Yeah. So. Well, and that's, I mean, I'll be the first one to say, I followed you on social media. So McKenna, I played. Club volleyball with her sister and our parents became really good friends. And we like, you know, our families did a lot together, but she was young at the time, so it wasn't like her and I were friends. But Hailey and I were good friends. And then, you know, we followed each other on social media and she gets married and she's in this relationship, and then I see she's not anymore. Mm-hmm. And like, here I am thinking I know everything, but I'm like, oh my God, they seem so happy. Everything seems so good. Like, yeah. How could this, what, like, what could it could have possibly happened, you know? Yeah. And then you start thinking in your head, oh, maybe it was this, maybe it was that. Because that's who we are. We just try and like, yeah. Create our own story. Make it make sense in your head. Yeah. You're behaving yourself, but like, I don't even know your guys' story at all. So that leads me into the question of like, how did you guys even meet? Yeah. Like what was the story behind you and him in the good times, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And we did, I don't ever wanna, um, negate the fact that we had a good life. Absolutely. At times, you know? Everybody goes through things and it wasn't all a facade, you know, I wasn't posting just things to make it look like we were happy. Yeah. Um, what I posted and what I shared that was happy was genuinely happy. Was happy and was great times. You know, we, we made two beautiful chil children. Excuse me. Um, but I met him in Dallas. Uh, we were, I was there for work, for flight attending. I was based in Dallas and then he was there for work for the gym and mutual friend. We ended up meeting, I wasn't really interested in dating at the time. Ended up dating and then moved to Arizona and things progressed quickly. We got pregnant. Um, definitely not expected. And so then from there we kind of just made all the steps that you make mm-hmm. You know, to do the next, next thing in life. And so we got married and then had knocks our second, and then, yeah, I think he was a year when we separated. yeah, and I definitely don't wanna put it out there too. I, I don't think everything on social is a facade, obviously. Yeah. I do social for a living. Yeah. So I definitely don't wanna put it out there like that. Just like over, generally speaking, like so many people have an opinion on your life based on Yeah. Just what they see. Um, but yeah, we all experience things and don't get me wrong, I also don't want anyone, I, I, I don't like the accounts either where they're just like, they put all the dirty laundry out there. Yeah. You know, either you should share, keep balancing here. Yes, yes. I definitely is Just keeping it in your household or privacy. Yes. I do think a lot of things do need to be worked out. Uh. You don't post. Yeah. I'm like, I, I wouldn't go and post, you know, that Tyler and I were having struggles to, well, you're not gonna go on social media and be like, Hey guys, everybody, um, Tyler and are not clicking. I wanna know like no, you're not gonna do that. Like, that's not the point of social media. Right, right. Exactly. Exactly. Um, but it has just given us a window into people's lives. Yeah. Like we've never seen before. Right. Um, and has just basically made it so we can create opinions on other people's lives and marriages like we never have before. Um, so how long were you guys married? We were married just about three years. Okay. Yeah, just about three. And I knew him for about four. Okay. So it was quick. Awesome. And if this is too personal, definitely let me know, but like when did you guys feel like the divorce was coming? Um, I mean, we had issues throughout the marriage and we just didn't, yeah. You know, we had our, we had our moments for sure. But yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, you love people in your life and, you know, we made babies together. That's, you know, that's something that only cutest babies. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's something the only he and I have that, you know, we relate on. Um, but just 'cause we did that doesn't mean that we can still find another happiness somewhere else. Absolutely. Sometimes people just don't work. And as much as that family unit means so much to me, and like I've had countless of times and nights and where I'm like, I just wish my parent, or they had their parents together. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. Yeah. I don't wish to be back with their dad. Um, no, ill will there, but I just, I, it, it's hard looking at your kids and knowing their, their parents aren't together, so. Yeah. Well, it's not a regret, it's just you always want a family together, right? Oh yeah. Totally. guys have built a, a really good relationship co-parenting wise. Yeah. Like, and I think that that's amazing. Like, that's something to be super proud of because Yeah. You know, that just makes, you know, the kids feel like there's not too much of a hiccup, you know? Right. And yeah. And it definitely did not start like that. Yeah. Um, even a divorce, it has to be, yeah. Yeah. Even divorce has the decision that was made and we were good with that decision. Like it did not start great. And I am very honest about that, that that's a, that's a really big change. And especially with young kids. I mean, my son was not even two when I moved out. Oof. That's rough. Yeah. And so it's just you're navigating motherhood, like we say, and the chaos of life and then, you know, leaving a partner and figuring out what's next. And you know, co-parenting in general is just. It's difference in opinions. That's why you didn't work. You know, maybe among other things, but a lot of it is you're just different people and then you have to co-parent with somebody that you don't wanna be with. Yeah. You know, for x amount of reasons or whatever happened. But you have kids together. Yeah. So that's the choice that you have to make. And I have noticed, um, the kids haven't experienced a lot of negative from the divorce. Mm-hmm. One because they were young. And I do think doing it younger, um, is helpful 'cause they just don't know, they don't really understand Knox. That's all he knows. He'll never know any different. Yeah. I was, um, you know, two, two and a half, three. So creating a very safe and healthy environment for them is the most important thing. Yeah. And we've gotten the hang of that. We still have our, you know, little moments where we're just like nitpicking and then we hang up the phones and we're just frustrated and Yeah. Like you are in a marriage though. Yeah. Like our friendship or whatever. Yeah. Anything, you know, your relationships with anybody and so. Definitely creating that safe space for our kids is, is really important. And taking their life just as normal as we can. Yeah. Well that leads me into the question of like, um, you know, do you grieve like that idea of like that family dynamic and that life that you thought that you would have right now at 29, you know? Yeah. Like your idea of that was probably very different than the one that you're living. Not that it's the right one. Yeah. But in your head it was probably different. And like, do you, do you grieve that? Like do you miss that? Yeah, I think everything has been in phases. In the very beginning everything was crashing down and I didn't come from a divorce family. Um, you know, divorce wasn't really an option. And you find yourself in a situation where you feel like that is the only option. And so you take that option and I'm happier than ever that I did. I have learned kind of in the same aspect of it doesn't matter what other people think, that it doesn't matter what I had set in stone for my life. Yeah. You, you make those. Decisions or that idea in your head at such a young age anyways, right? Yeah. You make it when you're like 17, 18, you meet the love of your life in high school and you're like, we're gonna do this and have babies by 23, and be like, you create that at such a young age and you haven't even experienced life to know, yeah. What age is appropriate to even have kids or not have kids, or whatever. So I've let a lot of that go at, at one point in time. Yeah, I definitely did grieve being married and having a family and, you know, making that perfect little life for my kids. And of course I love marriage. I love love, I believe in love. I believe in marriage. I don't, I still don't believe in divorce. You know, like I don't want everybody to think divorce is the answer and that's the way out or option or whatever. Um, I think fighting for, for your marriage and love is very important, but. I'm happy. I'm happy. I've found things that have made me very happy doing my job. I think being a single mom has made me a better person in general, 'cause I've learned a lot through it. Mm-hmm. Um, I've had time to really sit with myself and my thoughts, and especially in that beginning phase, like you're just, you are rewiring your brain in a lot of ways and so yeah. A lot of grievances happen for sure. Yeah, for sure. I think resilient is the word. Yeah. I proud of that one. Yeah. You described that very well. But I mean, like, and I'll say this from a standpoint of someone who's married mm-hmm. And someone who comes from a family where like, yeah. Divorce is not supposed to be an option. Um. I'm proud of you because that's like, that's a, that's a thing that you decided to do that like, yeah, this isn't the ideal thing and this isn't like the thing that I thought I'd be doing, but for me personally, like that's the option and that's the choice that I'm making because it's gonna make me better. It's gonna make him probably better. Yeah. It's gonna make our kids better. Mm-hmm. And like to make that decision not just for yourself, but for everyone else around you. Like just knowing that. Mm-hmm. It's like when you get into a job, and I don't wanna compare a marriage to a job, but like, you get into a job and you go and you go to school and you get all these student loans and you're like, you know, this is what I wanna do. This is what I've invested in doing. But five years from then, you're a different person. Yeah. So like, is that still what you wanna do? Mm-hmm. And like, should you just stay in that and be unhappy because people would tell you no. Yeah. Don't stay in a job that makes you unhappy. Right. Go do what makes you happy. Yeah. But in a marriage, you're expected to do that. And I get it. Try as hard as you can. Yeah, I understand. But there comes a point, I think, in certain people's marriages where I, I think I've seen a lot of marriages where I'm like, you guys should normally, yeah. Like, it'd be better for your kids. It'd be better for everyone if you did go your separate ways. You know? So like taking that route, knowing that it might be frowned upon, but you're still doing it because it's what's best for you. Um, you're accomplishing that thing that you were talking about of like, I don't care what everyone else thinks. Mm-hmm. This is what's gonna make me happy and my life better, so. Yeah. Yeah. And I think too, you know, the kids being happy is just kind of where it all settles for me is making their life the best. Yeah. And if I have to make really hard decisions and really tough decisions that are uncomfortable, or I'm worried somebody's gonna judge. I know I'm making those decisions with my kids in mind. Yeah. And people have always said, you know, I talked to a lot of people when I, we were going through the divorce, that two happy homes is better than one unhappy home. And kids don't deserve to be in an unhappy place. No. Or an unsafe place for some people, or an unhealthy or clean place, you know, whatever it be in your situation for your marriage or why it ended. Um, kids don't deserve that. And some people have the mindset of like, well, I'll just stay, you know, I'll stay until the kids are 18. And it's like, but what is that like for you? Yeah. You know, I could have stayed until the kids were 18 and moved and, but. I wouldn't have been happy. I wouldn't have been living the life that I deserve and I know that I want, and, and so I think it just, yeah, it comes down to just knowing what you need and what you want, protecting your kids and just not caring. Yeah. That's a huge, huge decision. Yeah. You know, and then posting on social media and people are like, wait, you're married? And I thought it was great. It's like, yeah, but it wasn't. Yeah. I thought it was gonna be too. Yeah. I didn't get married. I was in the same boat as you, you know, but here we're I with you, buddy. It was until it wasn't. Yeah. And yeah, that's great. We were absolutely, we, you know, and we'll never negate that. And he is a great dad. Yeah. And I think that's, you know, worth saying is he is a great dad to our kids and, and I think that's important. No, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You found a wonderful, wonderful dad and yeah. Honestly, you loved him so much and he deserves the best. Yeah. You know, like, yeah, no, ill for sure. Like, but you both deserve the best. Yes. And like you guys both deserve happiness and, um, again, you know, with the co-parenting, you guys found your, your footing. Yeah. Now. Yeah. And like you can probably breathe a little bit easier now and Yeah. Um, so what does co-parenting look like for you? Yeah, so we have a pretty strict schedule. We do the same schedule every week. We're on that 2, 2, 5, um, two days with me, two days with him. And then we rotate weekends. So for the first year after we separated, I actually had them for the whole week and he would take 'em on the weekends, uh, just for work purposes. But I got back into flying after taking a little time off. And so this schedule has worked really well for us. Um, it just is very equal. It's very same schedule, routine, you know, and it's very equal for both of us to have weekends off, um, help throughout the week. And so yeah, we communicate well. Text when we need to. Mm-hmm. Have phone calls when we need to. It's usually always about the kids, but we just communicate what we can help each other when we can. And we've gotten to the place now through a lot of learning and patience, but, you know, Hey, I need you to help this day. Or Hey, can you meet earlier? And I'm, I will admit, and I'm sure he will love to hear this, that I'm not the best at change or being late or so, like, when he's running late, I'm like, why aren't you here? And he, and then I'll run late the next day and I'm like, sorry, I'm 10 minutes late. And he's like, yeah, I had to get a coffee. Forgive me. He just yelled at me for 30 minutes yesterday for being five minutes late. I'm like, I know, I'm sorry. And so they're still learning and I admit that, you know, I'm not perfect. And, um, but again, yeah, just resorting back to what makes the kids happy and easiest for the kids. You know, we don't do nighttime swaps 'cause bedtimes, you know, we always do 30 in the morning just to make sure that we're up, we're ready for the day. Mm-hmm. And then when the other person gets them, they're already fed breakfast, they're, they're changed. And, you know, so we've navigated a lot of that to now make it a very smooth routine. So. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. See, we're in a good place. Yep. Now, is it difficult because I'm just imagining, like, I'm just, I'm putting myself in your position, which I'm not in, but like, I'm trying to think. Yeah. Is it hard? Like I, I'm thinking with Tyler, I'm not with him anymore, and now he's around my kids and I don't really know him anymore because I'm not married Twin and I don't spend, you know, 24 7 with him like I did before. How do I trust this person with my kids when I don't even really know who they are going forward? Like, is it hard to trust him? Um, it's not hard to trust him. I think at the beginning it was, um, because our dynamic during our marriage was very much, he was the provider and I stayed home with the kids. Right. So I, I was around them all the time. I was doing their routine. Yeah. I was doing, yeah. Day-to-day things dropping off. Picking up. Not that he wasn't capable, but that's just what our lifestyle was. That was already, this is what she likes to eat. Yeah. This is like, this is, this is how I brush her hair. Yeah. And moms, a lot of times it's not that, it's that moms can't work. 'cause a lot of moms do work and the husbands stay home. But moms often are the ones that know all those things. Right? Yeah. And then when we separated or you know, everything happened, I was a little worried, like, what does he know how to give him a bath? Like he would give them baths when we were married. Yeah. Like he wasn't an absent dad. No. But your mind starts wondering like, does he know you know how to do this? Or what if she gets hurt or what? You know, you just start questioning everything. And so there was a really big phase where I, I just couldn't, I couldn't trust the decisions that he was gonna make. Yeah. I was like, when you're at the grocery store, are you eyes everywhere looking at everything so they don't get kidnapped? And he's like, McKenna, yes. And I'm like, okay. Like, but you just worry. And as a mom you worry. And, and so yeah, I did struggle with that. I think nowadays, um. I fully trust him as a dad. Yeah. And I would be concerned if he as a person was a terrible person. You know? Like if he Yeah. Yeah. Did all the real things and drugs around gang members, like Right. Like, I know where he lives. Like I know who he's around most of the time, and I don't, I'm not, I don't need to be privy to that information, but I do trust that he has good judgment with the kids. You picked a great dad. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's, and it, it, I don't think it has anything to do with the person. Yeah. You know, like I, I'm in a relationship and he is a wonderful dad as well too. But I still, if he leaves the house with her, she's almost eight. Okay. Yeah. I'm still like, okay, well, like make sure like, don't change Spotify. Like when you're driving the car. Yeah. And like, and also same thing, are you looking around mm-hmm. I mm-hmm. At the grocery store? Yeah. To like, see who else is there? Did anyone like look at I'm right. I, I think as moms and also, I don't know if you're con like a control freak. Mm-hmm. We're, we very much are so, like we talk about this, but like, I like to control every situation. Yeah. So I think it has nothing to do with. Dads, I think, you know, we all picked great fathers for our kids, but naturally, yeah, he just, well, mom's your default. You're the default parent. I say that all the time. I mean, you could be river taking a freaking shit. And he's like, no, only mom can do it. Yeah. And so then freaking Tyler goes to wipe his butt, and I'm like, did you make sure to wipe it good? Yeah. Like stupid shit, right? Yeah. But like, that's just how we are. And sometimes maybe the husband wasn't right for you as a husband, but they still can be a great dad. Like, there's different roles that people can play and they can be good at different versions for different people, you know. But it also, it probably makes your kids so dynamic. I think that there's like, there can be such a positive to this too. Mm-hmm. Because, um, at least in my house, like I find myself, like if Taylor's saying something, I'm like, oh, no, no, but, but you know, like I wanna like, yeah. You know what I mean? Like with my method of doing something Right. So I think like. Your kids are getting two totally different, worlds and parenting methods and advice, experiences like that. And experiences and like, it probably helps, like making them well-rounded dynamic. Like it, I think that there can be a major positive. Yeah. And I, I think too, letting go of the control of what happens at his house. Yeah, yeah. You know, I did have some sort of say, or if you wanna say control, when we were married in one house, um, just because I was there, I was aware of what was happening. I can say yes or no or whatever, but when they're at his house, I don't have a say. Yeah. And I, I don't have that right to know. I have a right to know if my kids are safe and like Yeah. Who's around them. Yeah. To a point. But I can't control what happens over there. You know, I can't control their bedtimes, I can't control what they ate. And I've had to learn to like, let that, that control go. And it's hard. It's hard still. And I say that I'm good at it now. There's still times where I'm like, I text him and he's like, you're a. Can helicopter mom. And I'm like, and he's like, I'm not even married to you. And I'm like, I'm just checking in. Like, did they like, yeah, they call him Bubby, but his name's Knox. Did he eat? He was sick last week. And I'm like, did you snuggle him? Like, you know, were you laying with him all day? And he's like, no, I made him run laps in the house. You know, he is like, I, he's sick. I'm aware. You know, it's just little things like that that like, I can't control what happens over there. And that's really hard 'cause as a mom, like you just wanna protect them and, yeah. Yeah. But that was a decision I made and it is fun having. Different dynamics and they always say like they know what they can get away with at each person's house, right? They cannot get away with many things at my house, but at their dad's house maybe they do. And then we have my parents involved in that. And so it does, it makes a little bit of a, a fun dynamic for them to kind of just experience different rules and mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, and they're really good about, now when we go places, like everybody's house is different. Yeah. Everybody doesn't expect the same things from their house. And when you go to other people's houses, just like you go from mom's to dad's, it's gonna be different. Yeah. And some of the rules are gonna be different. And just 'cause dad lets you eat that doesn't mean mom is, and vice versa, you know? And so it does more diverse teach them diverse. Yeah. Yeah. It teaches them a lot. As much as it does teach us too, that we just, we can't control it. And letting that go is, is hard. Yeah. It's props to work. I'm not there. It's a work in progress for sure. I'm better than I was so. So, so with that, I mean, you know, still staying on that same topic of co-parenting and, you know, moving on and, uh, so how was it with the control and all the things seeing your ex move on, even if you close that door, you know it's over. Was that hard for you to watch him move on? Um, in the aspect of parenting and who's gonna be around my kids? Yes. as far as. You know, seeing him with somebody else or him dating, it didn't affect me. 'cause that was, you know, the decision we made and I was okay with that decision. But yeah, just who are you bringing the kids around? You know, what is their background? What is their story? Who do they have in their lives? Mm-hmm. And, and are you gonna make sure? Are you gonna do this? And so that was definitely very hard. And it still comes up, you know, I have little things of like, oh, did they do this? Or, you know, who was around them? Or if you went here, you know, all of the questions that you would have. Yeah. But I'm happy for him and I want him to be happy. As much as I deserve happiness, he deserves happiness. And he has found a great, a great partner. And she also, I won't, you know, share too much about her and her life, but she has kids as well. And I think that as a mom, I don't know if I've ever told him that essentially, but I've talked to my family and just knowing that she's a mom mm-hmm. Is helpful because it's, it eliminates that fact that I feel like she's gonna overstep or wanna play this little Yeah. You know, some little teeny bop or coming in and I'm gonna be the stepmom. Yeah. You know, like. That was my very not irrational fear. It is a very rational fear. But that was my fear of like, this girl's gonna come in and make them call her mom, or you know, all the stories you hear. And he's not dumb to play into that. But you think you, you hear all these stories and they, they, yeah. There's some crazy people also. Like that has to be, that also has to be a good feeling too, because, you know, like she is a mom, so one, she, like you said, she doesn't wanna, you know, probably overstep. Mm-hmm. Or like, take on that role. Yeah. But also she has a motherly instinct. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So like certain things she knows like where to step in Yeah. Where to like, you know, like just that for sure. That instinct that we grow as soon as we become a mom. Yeah. Like she's got it. So like, yeah. Yeah. Like you can, you can trust that around kids. Well, and she also. Is going through what you're going through. Yeah. I'm guessing. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, it's not exactly what you're going through, but on the other end, um, she has a child or children, so she is co-parenting with someone else. So she, I feel like maybe knows those aspects of things Yeah. That she can better understand. I would be worried if it was just this, like you said this, this girl that just doesn't have kids and is coming in and trying to tell my kids how to, it's like, bitch, you don't got no kids. Yeah. You don't even know. You dunno what you're doing. Like knock it off you. So like I feel like that would take a weight off just knowing like, okay, she is a mom, she is transitioning in a co-parenting situation or whatever it may look like for her too. But she has that understanding of like Yeah. You know, the roles of a mom mm-hmm. And the roles of a co-parenting mom. Yeah. So like I feel like that is the best scenario. I know. It truly is. I'm like, it worked out great for me. I mean obviously for them too, but it does relieve just so much of that. Worry and pressure and fear and 'cause there is an element to just being a mom that you just have that instinct. And obviously not all moms do, but you, I see her and I know her enough to, to know that my kids are safe and oh yeah, they're happy and I want them to be happy and I, I wish them the best. And know my kids, having other little kids to play with is so fun, you know? And they come home and tell me about it. And I'm like, that's amazing. You know? It's always been a positive thing in, in our relationship, co-parenting that built, when that comes in, like our partners that we choose to go date, like we're gonna be speaking highly of them, you know? Yeah. They're a part of our family unit if that's what we choose to do with our partners and, and I want them to love her as much as he does and vice versa with my partner. And more love for your kids is never a negative. Yeah. And I, I remind them that too. You know, I'm like, you know, and you know her name. I'm like, and she loves you and mommy loves you. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Do you my boyfriend, Luis. I'm like, Luis loves you and so many, all these people that love you and you know, you put it in a pretty, you can control how they think about Yeah. And. You know, scary. But that's the fun part about it, is like you can control what they feel. Yeah. Yeah. And if you're negative about it, and if you're worried, and if you have all of this caution around it, they're gonna feel that and they're gonna feel that caution. Yeah. A hundred percent question all that. So it's really just how you present it and. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. So we're trying over here. See, we love love, love, love, love. Do. I love love. I love a happy, well, yeah. I don't wanna say ending, but like, well, yeah, it was a, yeah, it's a happy ending now. Yeah. Yeah. We're all in good place. It's a chapter. It's just another chapter. Close that chapter. Something's gonna happen in the future, I'm sure. And we're gonna go through that and battle that and, but we just, and we'll call her back and we'll be like, okay, so what now we'll back and be like, okay, wait, wait until you hear this. Wait a second. But no, I mean, so you're in a happy relationship. Yeah. And, and he, it sounds like he's in a happy relationship, but Yeah. You know, we are women and we are just in general, we have feelings. And did you ever go through a point where maybe you were three wines deep and you thought, Hmm, maybe I should text him and, and maybe try to rekindle this? Or, or just kinda. Feel some type of emotion with him. Yeah. You know, you know how us girls are. Yeah. It's not even so much of like rekindle. Yeah. But like, I'm bored, I wanna feel an emotion. I'm gonna text him and see what's, what's what the up is. Um, yeah. No, not to him. Not with him. Um, we were pretty like cut and dry. Yeah. It's done. Yeah. We were done. We were good. We just did our, did our own thing. Yeah. So yeah, that was a pretty clean cut, which was nice. 'cause I think that could get messy too. Yeah. And confusing for the kids and No, you know, judgment to, to people. 'cause I know that's hard. You created a bond with that person and Yeah. Having a baby with a person is a bond that nobody else can compare to unless you do that with them. Yeah. And so, um, it was never like a, I regret and I don't, I think he would agree with this, like, we made the decision and so we kinda stuck to that. So. It's pretty mature. That's fair. Yeah, it absolutely is. Yeah. Um, especially that wine, sometimes it does talk to you. I'm not saying that's never happened. Not with him, not with him specifically. I have not, yeah. I have fallen victim to that. Well, when did you feel like you were ready to date again? This is, yeah. I think right after things ended, it had it in my perspective, I had kind of checked out a little while. Mm. Before. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I think by the time we had ended and separated, um, it was, I don't know, few months that I kind of just started getting back out there. Yeah. Um, I think it goes back to, yeah, just how I was in the marriage, being married. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Under law, I guess I should say. You know, we were at the point where we were ready to separate and, and you check out and unfortunately that's, you know, it's not fair to either of us, but I did. And truthfully that by the time we had separated I was kind of like, okay, it's been this amount of time since I haven't. Felt this for him or been in this relationship with him, even though we were still married? Um, yeah, I think a few months just kind of getting back out there, meeting people, just even just getting out, you know, going out and Were you on the apps? No, I was on the apps for maybe one or two months. I don't even think I made it two months. I think it was like a month. I am not an online date girl. No. I'm like in the wild. I love to go in the wild girl. Oh yeah. Wait, are you like sit at a bar by myself, meet the bartender? Like, yeah. I love that. Not obviously now. No, not now, but like before. Are you leaving? Approach her like you? Yes. Yeah. I have no shame. I love that for you. I don't care. I will do, I will do whatever. I've left my phone number for people at the bar. Like I just don't care. Like I might if you want to call me, call me. And I wasn't like Yeah. You know, leaving it for everybody. I wasn't just hopping around, but, Hey, here you go. They're like, get on the mic. Yeah. No. McKenna has business cards actually, right? Yeah. Oh my God. Dating business cards. That's actually smart. Um, no, I, yes, but I did, I love, uh, in the wild moment, I can't sit on a phone and just. What do you like to do? And it's, I think, fake. That's what it might be. I think like too much texting or like these dating apps, like they almost create like a false emotional connection. A hundred percent. You know, like, because you can be whoever you want. Mm-hmm. Like similar to social, you can build whoever you want, um, on the text, on your socials. Mm-hmm. On whatever. And it just, like, it, you kind of, you start romanticizing. Mm-hmm. You're like, this person is this, this person is this. Yeah. And like, and, and then you build this connection. And I think that, I mean, that might be why there's a smokescreen and like so many of those relationships like, but I think out in the wild you're meeting them for who they are. Yeah. Yeah. And, and you talk to them, you order a drink, you order dinner, whatever. You go out friends, you see the body language, the eye contact, everything. And you just kind of feel it. And I just. Yeah. I was never one. I think a lot of it had to do with just being scared because I'm like, what? I'm gonna meet this person that I just met online? I don't even know Yeah. What they look like. They could be, you know, scared. I don't like that. I don't be some guy that fri takes you in your basement. Right. I, I'm going deep this Yeah. Like, I meet you at the restaurant. Like, thank you. It's not my, not my vibe. No. Yeah. Thankfully I met my partner before all the crazy dating apps. I think Tinder was around shortly. Yeah. But like, no. Yeah. Scary out there now. Right. I know. And just, yeah. Everything's unpredictable and I'm just such a little baby when it comes to that. I'm like, I don't wanna put myself in harm's way if I don't have to. Yeah. No, that's, that's not me either. Yeah. But, okay, so your ex-husband, we've already, we've already, you know, dove into this. He is dating now. Yes. Um, but how was that when you originally like, found out, like, did you do the psycho, you know, stalker and like, or like, did you meet her? Or like, I also wanna know like, how did, how was this. Told to you? Like, did he tell you, or did you find out from social media or like, how was this acknowledged? One of the girls that he was dating one time, I found out through Isla. Oh, shit. Yeah. Which was hard. And I was like, who is this? My daughter? Her daughter. Oh. Mm-hmm. And like, she's so like in a saying, you know, I think she was like, oh yeah, we talked to this person. And so I was just like, wait, you know, I, I didn't care, but I was like, wait, what's, I didn't even know you were dating this person or whatever. So we had that conversation and that was, I was like, Hey, I don't wanna find out through Isla. Yeah. Um, and he was like, oh yeah, probably not. So after that, the, I think that was, I think that was only one, one of the times. And then it was his girlfriend that he's with now. And I can't remember how I found out. I think we were just chatting and he was like, yeah, and I'm dating somebody. And then. As time progressed, he's like, we're getting more serious. Yeah. And this is her name. And, and I was like, I'm really happy for you. And, and then right after that conversation, like she had followed me on social media and I followed her back. And so it was very, you know, amicable. Yeah. And supportive. Um, but yeah, I, I mean, we didn't really talk much about if we were just dating casually or Yeah. I didn't need to know as long as it was very, um, clear. And I made that clear to him that I don't want anybody meeting the kids until you're like, ready to, to date them, you know? And now they're Yeah, you're serious. Right. Our kids didn't, you know, meet these people over and over and this boyfriend, this girlfriend and Yeah. Go through 10 people in a year that you're just casually dating, you know, it was like, you know, my kids didn't meet my boyfriend until he was gonna step in and, and be there for us. Mm-hmm. And so, um, that was kinda like my one, my one stipulation is So you didn't know her or. Like now seeing her posts maybe with him. Mm-hmm. Because you guys follow each other on social media. Like, do you, do you see that and it's just a, like a, a okay feeling? Or does it sometimes catch you off guard where you're like having a bad day and you're like, oh, I don't like that. No, no. It's, it is like a very neutral No. Like, I just, she's like one of my friends. I literally asked him if I can have wine night with her. Yeah. That's great. Great. And he was like, no, you're not doing that. He's like, I feel like you should, I know You see like the cute mom stepmom. I know. There was this video on, I think TikTok and I sent it to him and it was like, we co-parented so hard. You're taking your ex-husband's new girlfriend out to the bar. Yeah. And it was like both of them dancing on the bar. Yes. And I was like, can I send this to her? And he was like, no. Like, I wanna hang out with her. Like, and so, yeah, I, there's no, no feeling. And I think, you know, maybe, I don't know, just the way that we ended and the way that we had. I don't, I I never really felt that. And it wasn't that I just didn't ever love him. And he was, you know, I just cares about him. But it just, yeah, it was cut off, it was done. And that was, that was it. So every time I see their posts, you know, it's, it's like cute. It's like a friend. Yes. I love that. I think it shows like that. You guys, you guys did, you know, fight, you did what you could. You guys both knew that it was like it, that it was the best answer for you guys and the kids. And it made it so, you know, a clean break. So he can move on. You can move on. And now, um, you're on adventure to be best friends with the new girlfriend. Yeah, I know. I'm like, Hey, hey you Judy. I know. So you live wine. I live wine i's truly sounds very healthy. You know what I mean? I think if anything, it just validates the fact that like you guys were supposed to get divorced. I don't wanna say supposed to, but you know what I mean? Yeah. Everything happens, like it just shows, you know, because if it weren't that way where you were just always getting jealous or there was always conflict or this or that, it would show that there was some kind like stemming existing Right. Or like right feeling. But like every answer that I've heard you say has never been like a question of like, no, that was, that was supposed to happen. This was right. Um, I feel good about him and her, like it just proves that like, you know, it was a necessary thing and it's a healthy thing for your kids especially. Yeah. And seeing him happy is great. You know, you, we were so unhappy and we went through our phase that, that nobody wants to see that for your mom. No. Yeah. So, you know, I want him to be happy and, um, yeah, and they seem great. You know, she's, she's a mom and she's very involved in their lives and, and I love that. I love my kids. Have somebody that can support them and show up for them and, you know, if. Of course I wish it was me all the time, but yeah, that's not the way our life played out. Yeah. And that's okay. Yeah. And I'm gonna be happy still. And it is nice, you know, like I always joke, you know, my kids are leaving today and as much as I love my kids Yeah. And I would love to have them with me 24 7 and live with one family and never have to leave them, I have found the joy in like having time away from them and being McKenna and Yeah, working and doing my job and doing things I need to do for myself and not feeling guilty. 'cause you know when you go and you have a sitter or you do something and you like feel guilty or like put my kids at home with somebody else or I, yeah, could be home, but I chose to go get my nails done, whatever it be, you have that mom guilt. Yeah. And it's like this is our routine, this is our schedule and I don't have to have that guilt to go and work or do something with my boyfriend or, 'cause I have that time off and yeah, I've utilized that. Wisely. I've really tried to be intentional about that time when I don't have them, so that I can show up better when I do have them. Yeah. Well, I mean, we talked about that last week when I was saying, you know, that I'm trying to be more intentional with not just giving everything like, oh, 10% to this, 10% to this. Like, no, if I'm doing this, like give it a hundred percent if I'm hanging out with river, give it a hundred percent if I'm working. And that's hard. Yeah. But that is a, a positive thing about divorce, I guess, um, you could say. Is that like you can divide your time that way and feel confident that like you're giving it your all. Yeah. And then when you have them, it's just like, fuck, I missed them. Yeah. And now I've, I have this time with them where it's just about them. Yeah. So like it's not all negative and nasty when it comes to divorce. There are these positive aspects that can be shown. And I think that's one of the things I wanted to bring to this conversation especially is just that, that, that shame that people feel doesn't have to exist in your divorce. Yeah. And that. Guilt and yeah, it's a hard decision and it's still a hard decision and I still think about it every day. It's not a decision that I regret, but it still comes up in my mind of, yeah, my family's not together. My kids don't get to be raised with their mom and dad in one household. Like, yeah. You know, that's, that's a thought that I feel, and I, I hear a lot in my head, but it's not all negative and it's ups and downs. It ebbs and flows, but you find yourself and you find things that you wanna do, and you surround yourself with people that support you and show up for you and show up for your kids and make their life better. And yeah, it's just eyeopening and I, I just want people to not feel stuck in a situation because you can get out. Yeah. I don't recommend it to everybody. If you're having a bad week and you guys are all, you know, you guys aren't connecting or you know, don't just file for divorce, but you're not stuck and you can make a change and make a difference and your kids will be okay. As much as I'm resilient, kids are very resilient. What you put out there, what you create for them, the situation, the environment, they're gonna take that on. You know, even when I told my kids about my boyfriend, it wasn't like, Hey. Mommy has a boyfriend. It was like, Hey, like, did you know? Like mom has a boyfriend. You know, like the way I phrased it. And then Isla was like, what? You know? And it was like a fun, it's fun. It's not like this thing, it wasn't the serious, let's sit down. 'cause then they'll take that on and they'll be like, why is it so they interpret it the way that, yeah. Yeah. Put it in. And that's with everything, you know, that's just everything with kids and motherhood, and you get to have a say for a little while, while they're little of how they perceive things and what they feel. So, and I think this was like a really important conversation to have because, and I'm, I'm just so happy that you came on to, and we have a few more rapid fire questions, but I think that this is so prevalent, um, you know, fortunate, fortunately, and unfortunately. Yeah. Um, you know, like as we go into our thirties Yeah. As people maybe navigate these relationships that they went into a little bit younger. I don't think that divorce, I think we were like raised that it it's surrounded with a lot of negativity or even hatred. Mm-hmm. And like, it's not the end of the road. It actually can be a beautiful new beginning. Mm-hmm. Um, like for you, for your family, as you, like you said, as you find yourself, as you navigate this next chapter and. It sometimes it is the best choice, and that doesn't mean it's a bad choice. Yeah. You know, like, it, it doesn't, doesn't need to like come with so much negativity and Yeah. And it's not always, you know, hatred and Yeah. Like, you know, all of these things. Yeah. I, I think we need to change the stigma around it because I think you are an example, you and your ex-husband are an example that like it there, there's a lot of good Yeah. Like that, that can come from it. Yeah. And like a beautiful new chapter that can come from it. Yeah. So, yeah. And it takes work. Yeah. It's not, this does not come easy. I can, I don't just show up like, Hey, I've got it all done. We're perfect. Yeah. No, no. It has, it takes work. It takes struggle. It, it, it commitment to making a better life for you and your kids and, and just letting your, you know, letting your guard down, putting your pride aside and just showing up. But did you know that you were this resilient and like that you were this strong before your divorce? No. No. I've always been a very, um. I'll just persevere through it. You know, like I lost a friend group or I lost a job. Like I'll figure it out. You know, like I've always been aware that, you know, I'll be okay and I've had support and all of that. But no, I didn't really know that side of me until this happened. Yeah. And I learned, you know, through crying and just being alone and then having to give my kids away for a weekend and I'm like, wait, what? I'm not doing that. And I did not cut out for this. Right. But then I survived that weekend and I'm like, okay, that was really hard. Yeah. And I hated it 'cause my kids aren't with me, but I did this or I went and saw that movie, or I got my nails done and you know, you just slowly start realizing like, I am capable and I am okay. And I have support and yeah, resiliency is, I think a really great quality to have and learn and a hundred percent just that it doesn't have to break you and it doesn't have to ruin your life and you can make a change and make choices to make your life better. Yeah. It doesn't just have to be doom and gloom. I'm a divorced. Mom of two at 30. Yeah. No. It's like, no, I'm divorced. I'm happy. He's happy. Yeah. And we're great. And I wouldn't have it any other way. Well, and I can tell by talking to you that you're Yeah, you seem so much more confident in who you are. Yeah. Like, honestly, and I don't just say that, you know, she's glowing for social media, but it just seems like you are just so confident in who you are. And I really, truly don't think that maybe you would've, uh, been that way mm-hmm. If you hadn't gone through what you've gone through. So it's like you get in these marriages and, and sometimes it's young and, um, you have so much more growing to do individually. And maybe that person was just not the person that was supposed to like, be alongside you while you were doing that growing. Yeah. It doesn't necessarily mean like, oh, we just fucking suck together and terrible. And he's terrible and I'm terrible. Like how divorced. Seems Right. You know how, how it's painted. Yeah. It's just like, I was growing in this direction and he was growing in this direction, and now, um, we're growing in the same direction for our kids, but we're doing it separately. Yeah. And everyone's better for it. He's better for it. I'm better for it. Um, yeah. And I think those are just some things that like you have to go through mm-hmm. To be the person that you are now. Yeah. And like, let's stop shaming people for that. Right. From making that decision that like, you know, this is what's best for me and my family. And like, quit acting like, you know, you know, on the outside. Like, no, that's not what's best. Yeah. Stay married. Yeah. Like, you're not fighting hard enough. Right. Yeah. That's the thing that I hate. Like you didn't fight hard enough and it's like you have no clue what fight I put into this. You don't know what we went through. And you can say that easy because you see that it just ended, right? Yeah. And that's not, that's not the basis of divorce. It's not just 'cause you just didn't try hard enough. You saw the closing chapter, you didn't see chapter one through 10 in between that him and I went through, I think what you just said, you hit the nail on the head probably of what most divorces stem from. And I think it's the fact that we are all growing individuals. Yeah. I am a very different person right now at 32 than I am at 22. Yeah. Or that I was at 22. And, um, everyone is constantly growing and shifting and, you know, becoming a new version of themselves and sometimes you and your partner are just doing that on different paths. Yeah. There's a lot you guys and you guys who you were in your early twenties and like sparky and young and all these things, like you guys mesh so well, but the person that you became at this age and this age don't mesh. Yeah. And like they don't work. And I think a lot of people deal with that and a lot of people just kind of, you know, they, they roll with it, but you don't have to, but you got really cute kids out of it. You don't, you got, yeah. You ended a marriage that it's worth it. That he was in my life for a reason. Yeah. Yeah. And we made beautiful kids and I don't know who I would be without my kids. Yeah. I can't even imagine that life. Yeah. So yeah, those are my blessings of that. And I've learned a lot. And here we are. Here we are. Here we are. And so you talked a little bit about quiet kid free nights. Mm-hmm. I know you love to color. Yeah. Um, what, like what are kid free days, nights? What do they look like? Yeah, so a lot of it is just, uh, doing my errands for the most part a lot of those days or just getting the things done. 'cause you know, how treking kids along to any store ever is nearly impossible. Um, so I love to have those days of just, again, giving a hundred percent when I'm with my kids. And then when I don't have them utilizing that time to run the errands, I do my work. I'll fly. Usually when I'm not with my kids, I'll usually try and, uh, arrange my schedule so I'm flying on the weekends that their dad has them. Um, I love just a good, quiet household. I love. Just going to the gym, being just in my element of, of me and focusing on what I need. Getting a coffee, you know, getting my nails done. All the things that I just, you have to catch up on. It's, it's nice to have that time and, and just being in silence. You know, I, I started reading this this year and pause. This is reconnecting, but it says it's recording. Hmm. Do we trust it? I don't know. Why did my gene turn into high water system just down there? Yank them up. So like what advice would you give someone who is like fresh or maybe not even like. In a divorce yet. Um, but maybe considering that that's the option that they need to take and that, um, they have kids involved, you know, like what advice would you give them for this upcoming, you know, divorce, co-parenting situation they might encounter? Um, I think leaning on your community and your people is huge. I think kind of reaching out and being vulnerable and letting, letting some people in will be very helpful to that. Uh, next phase, if you've made that decision, I guess, to. To divorce and that's, that's where you're at. Yeah. Just getting things in order, just seeing what it looks like. Kind of writing pros and cons down of, you know, different options, different, different schedules, and just kind of finding what fits, what fits you. Yeah. Um, I don't know that there's one thing that I could just say, 'cause I know every situation is different, but. Just leaning on your people and and letting them in. I know. It is. It feels shameful. It feels bad. It feels scary, but I wouldn't have gotten through a lot of it if I didn't have my people. Yeah. And my friends and my family and just that support. Um, and honestly, people that I thought that would shame me or belittle me for my decision or whatever it be, were actually some of the people that supported me the most. Yeah. And. I was scared to tell them or open up, but then, you know, they showed up in ways that I could have never asked for. And I think it, it all sounds scary and it all sounds like it's just gonna be earth shattering and you won't be able to figure it out. Or, you know, if you were a stay home mom and they were the provider, that you won't be able to find a job or you can't do it. Yeah. You know, I had to live with my parents for a couple of months. Like, I couldn't just move out and go pay for a rent. You know, like I, I lived with my parents, with my kids for a couple months. We made it work, but like, just know that you can do it. Yeah. And you will get through it. Um, it's gonna sound very daunting and like, I, I'm not capable of this. I can't do this. And I, I can't do this with kids, but you can. Yeah. And I am on the other side of that to, to be witness to that and to say like, I, you can, yeah. So, thank you like for coming on and being so vulnerable and open. Uh, I don't think you realize how many people will resonate with this or like how many people this will help. Uh, so I just wanna thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate that a hundred percent. Yeah. I hope it definitely reaches. The right people. I feel like there's gonna be a lot of people that are having these feelings, um, within themselves that they've never shared with anybody else that might listen to this and think like, shit. Like, maybe I can do this, or maybe this is the right way, or maybe there is a light on the other end of this. Um, so you just never know what you're gonna say that's going to. Like, hit somebody when it needs to hit. Yeah. And like that's the goal of sharing these stories and being vulnerable. So I appreciate you, you know, putting yourself out there to maybe possibly like help someone else. Of course. And I definitely am a resource too. Like I, I don't know everything. I'm not a therapist, I haven't been through it all, and I didn't perfect it all. But I have lived a lot of it and. If I'm open to, to talking to people and like I want to be a support for people, if that's something that they're looking for, just a friend to talk through things. You know, when I first went through it, a lot of people reached out and they were like, Hey. I noticed, I haven't been seeing it, but like, I'm also going through this. Yeah. I also am here. Like, what, what should I do? And I don't have the answers, but I can definitely be a support for you. Yeah. So I think that that's all, I mean, that, that's all we need. We need a village, we need community. Yeah. I think a lot of people, um, maybe like if, if they are going through this, I think a lot of people go through this alone. Mm-hmm. Um, because you know, people don't wanna, it, it can be Yeah. Embarrassing. It can, you know, it can have a stigma to it, it can whatever. Um, and I think a lot of people don't talk about it. Um, openly. Yeah. And I think, like you said, we just need, we need friends, we need community. Mm-hmm. We like, that's how we're meant to go through life and navigate these things, so. Exactly. Yes. Oh man. That was like amazing healing for me. I'm not going through anything. I know. I just felt so, um, like, I don't know, fresh, empowering. It was like a fresh, empowering take on divorce instead of this like shadow doom and gloom and like, yeah. Great. Um, I, I'm so glad that we did that and we we're going to have so many more guests that have different perspectives and different life stories and different things, and that's just the goal is to like, show you guys all these different like. Paths that people take and let you know that like, whatever you take is cool, but we will also have some lighthearted stuff, you know, next week I think, um, we're gonna dive into some, some true crime stuff and conspiracy theories. We're gonna get a little, um, you know, talk about those different stories in all of our opinions that come with it. So, um, stay tuned for that. But again, like thank you so much for coming on. Yeah, thank you for having me. I was so happy. I'm so excited. So, yeah. Yes, I'll be back in a year and we'll. Some things are here. See where we're at. Thank you guys. Love you. Love you. Bye bye.