Legally Ginger Podcast
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Legally Ginger Podcast 2 - Do you only call your solicitor when something's gone wrong?
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Do you only call your solicitor when something's gone wrong?
In this episode of Legally Ginger, Kathryn explains why your solicitor should be a trusted business partner, not just someone you call in a crisis.
From contracts and shareholder agreements to avoiding costly disputes, discover how the right legal advice can save time, money and stress—and help your business grow with confidence.
Legally Ginger
Hello and welcome back. I'm here with Catherine again. And welcome back to the Legally Ginger podcast. Can I first thank you, everybody, for all the amazing comments I've had after my recent appearance on Amdron S4C. Mind you, the most loyal of you will remember that that wasn't my first television appearance because I did appear in a graveyard with my dog singing Lily Wenvar, but least said about that the better. But I'm still waiting for the traitors to contact me, and I'm still waiting for the Bab sponsorship, and still waiting for Amanda Wakely to invite me on her podcast. Please feel free to contact me. Now today we're going to talk about a relationship that is often misunderstood, occasionally neglected, and usually only called upon in a crisis. No, I'm not talking marriage counselling here. I'm talking about the relationship between a business owner and their solicitor. Most businesses and SMEs have an accountant on speed dire, an IT person, they panic call when everything crashes, and someone who knows how to unblock the toilet or the coffee machine. Yet, many only speak to their solicitor when something has already gone spectacularly wrong. Now why is that? So today I want to look at why solicitors should be seen less as an emergency service and more as strategic business partners. Now, there is a myth that the expensive problem solver is the solicitor, or the solicitor is seen as the expensive problem solver. Why? In the same way the people who dentists, they think that they probably do need one, but they would rather they didn't have one and didn't need to use one, but they know they're going to be expensive. Let's put this myth to bed. Most legal costs arise because issues weren't addressed early. Prevention is definitely cheaper than dispute resolution, and good legal advice creates opportunities as well as managing risks. So what am I saying? Well, a 500 pound conversation can often prevent a 50,000 pound problem. That's not because we as solicitors possess magical powers, although, mind you, some of us do, me, but because we've usually seen the same issues unfold dozens of times before. So what does a solicitor actually do for an SME for the small medium enterprise? Well we can help with growth. We can help with commercial contracts, we can help with terms. Now don't ever in my presence call them terms and conditions. I call them terms not conditions. We can help with supplier agreements, we can help with premises, so whether you're buying new premises, whether you're leasing them, we can help with all of that. We can help with employments, the hiring of staff, the firing of staff, policies, procedures, and managing those difficult situations that you may not want to. We can protect with by the means of shareholder disputes, debt recovery, and regulatory compliance. Fact, most business owners spend more time researching a new coffee machine than they do reviewing the contract for a six-figure deal. And I'm not talking here about these big businesses or the the businesses that you would think that are big. I'm talking here about people, the tradespeople. I'm talking about every sort of person, everybody needs who runs a business needs a solicitor. Would you agree, Gareth?
SPEAKER_01I would. I would. Um something cropped up as you're talking through this. I mean a little comment which I know you mentioned before because you're very passionate about. Yeah. And this it's this terms not conditions.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, just just like this a little bit about that. So when we enter into a contract, every sort of sentence in that contract is identifiable in law. And it can be terms or warranties or inominate terms. And I know this is legal jargon, right? But the the effect of breaching one of those sentences, whether that be a term, a condition, uh warranty or an inominate terms, will have an effect. Now, when you run a business, the last thing you want to do is to invalidate a contract just by what you've written in there. You want to create a contract where relationships are nurtured, where you can really negotiate another way out of the contract without it being ended. And that's why if we can label everything as a condition, that means if you breach it, it invalidates the contract, it ends that contract, voids the contract. So we want to stay away from that. So again, that is something that we need to look at. Don't rely on Google for a contract. Google is no good for it. Come to us. You know, when you come through the doors here, and usually the first appointment is free, right? We can look at these things. We can tell you what should be done, what shouldn't be done, what to stay with, and then what to stay away from. And that's what, you know, really helps you as that business owner is to know you've got that initial point of contact, free point of contact. And the things that keep us awake at night as solicitors are things where, you know, the agreements, the contracts are really written by WhatsApp. Or chat GBTs anyone, isn't it? Yeah, chat. Chat, let's put it all into chat, and then nobody understands whether the terms there are whether they're terms, conditions, warranties, inominative terms. We need to understand the implications of these terms. Things are the things that keep us awake at night. Are businesses without signed contracts, or we come back to it, oh, it wasn't important enough to sign at the time, we didn't get around to it. It's, you know, these are really serious things. Family members becoming shareholders without documentation. No paperwork, and the term that I always hear is we'll sort it out later. Later is too long too late. That's that's the reality of it. And business owners who don't have LPAs and Wales. You've heard me say this a million times before, but it is imperative. It's vital. So we need to look at everything holistically. You wouldn't try to run a business without an accountant. You wouldn't try to invest money without a financial advisor. Why would you try to create a business and to keep it running successfully without a solicitor? I just don't understand it. I really don't understand it. So we need to go back to things and look at it and you know, the way that you've always done the things won't stand up in court. It won't help you in court, it won't help you to get out of these sticky situations. So we need to look at the business lessons that we need to learn here. Lost opportunities nearly always come from having no basic documentation. You set up your business, you're ready to run with it, but the documentation isn't in place. Setting up to fail. So partnerships can collapse without lasting powers of attorney. People don't tend to realise this. Partnerships can collapse because nobody documented any exit strategies. You know, I you've heard me say this a million times before. We always start with the end in sight. We have to. We can't just start and cross our fingers and hope for the best that everything will work out in the end. Start with the end in sight. And businesses spending months and large amounts of money arguing over something that could have been resolved by a single paragraph in a contract. That's the reality that we're looking at here. You know, solicitors have changed. The solicitors have changed from being somebody that you'd go to in the depths of a crisis. Solicitors now are modern, we modern people. We need to be a part of your business as much as you are. We need to know, and you need to know, that our roles have changed. As I said, we're now integral parts of the everyday running of the business. We know the client's business as well as our own. Inside out, back to front, we have to. Otherwise, you've got the wrong solicitor. We have to be strategic of advisors. We have to be trusted sounding boards. We are commercial thinkers. But most importantly, I think we have to be part of the professional team right alongside your accountants and your financial advisors. So the best solicitors are not the ones who tell you what they can't do or tell you what you can't do, but we are the ones that will help the clients achieve what they want in the safest and smartest ways possible. That's what we do. Don't wait until there's smoke coming out of the building before speaking to your solicitor. Get to know your solicitors. I've said this before a million times. Interview different solicitors. One solicitor does not fit all. No. It's relationship building, isn't it? We buy into people, people buy into us. So, you know, find a solicitor that you trust, one that understands your business, or at least shows the um the noises of wanting to understand your business. And speak to that c to that solicitor. See what their values are, see what they think the best things about running a business. Because just like a business, one fit does not one size does not fit all.
SPEAKER_01Same with any part of business.
SPEAKER_00Exactly.
SPEAKER_01There's clients we like, there's people we like working with, and there's people that we Exactly.
SPEAKER_00And in the same way, you wouldn't just fit phone up an accountancy firm and say, right, I want you to opt for my business. You'd want to know what their specialty advice advice points are. You want to understand them, you want to get to know them, do they fit your your inmates for the business? And the same with solicitors. The most valuable legal advice is given before the dispute, before the problem, and before anybody needs to use the phrase without prejudice. Get to know your solicitor, build that relationship with them. Find one who understands your business. So, you know, you come to me, you've set up this business, you may have set up this business late on a Friday night, you've paid your feed company's house. Have you actually given thought to what documents you are going to be regulating that business? Have you ever thought, well, have you read the documents to start off with? That's the the most important thing, really, because if you've just signed up to create this separate legal entity, this business, you don't know what the rule book says, you don't understand the implications of anything. You've actually clicked, yes, I understand, and I confirm to. Well, we're we're setting ourselves up to fail. Yeah. And, you know, a business, like I say, is a separate, it's a baby. We need to treat it like a baby. It'll grow with us, it'll we need to nurture it. We need to understand its little quirks, its personality, because the personality of that business is important. So you need a team that's gonna fit around that. You need a team that's gonna really help you to create that. So it's the solicitor that will solve your problems. It's the solicitor that will actually help you avoid the problems altogether. So, key takeaway from today is one, I need a barber sponsorship, obviously. Secondly, I need to host the Welsh uh traitors. What would that be in Wales? In Welsh. Hmm. Let's think about that. I'll think of a a suitable um You can't just do the traitors in Welsh. Oh no, that would not be wrong when they we don't just translate things. You want to do our own little take on these things. But the third thing is do not set up a business if you're not ready to actually invest in a good team to help you run it. You know, you wouldn't expect a heart surgeon to perform his own heart surgery, would you? So why would you then expect the business owner to be able to do everything? You're there to bring the ideas, you're the super one that's gonna take this business forward. Let the back team help you.
SPEAKER_01So let's just put a little bit of meat on the bones. Yeah? And for the listeners, if you hear a banging, it's the moments when Catherine's really passed it and hits the desk. But that's fine. I'm not sure I can edit it out.
SPEAKER_00No, don't edit out. I mean they need to hear the passion.
SPEAKER_01Um meat on the bones. So we've got a couple of examples of either really good ones where it's gone really well because they had stuff in place. Obviously, no name do a pack drill. Um, or a couple of just so they can just maybe relate to some things.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So, you know, nobody hears of somebody of a business owner phoning the solicitor to say, things are going really, really well. What can I do to make it or super boost it? Because those calls do happen when you've got this relationship with a solicitor. I've got clients that phone me up saying, Oh my God, this went really well, right? I'm a little bit scared for the next step. What can I do? And that's what we're there to do, to make sure that we've got the legal uh infrastructure in place so that we can take it to the next step. You know, nobody hears in the the media I'm talking about now about uh the solicitors working alongside the business owner every week of the year. They only hear of the horror stories, and then that adds to the sort of narrative that we only phone a solicitor when we're in dire need. No, because we've got a situation where you know, Gareth, you come to the hubs, we nurture these relationships, we know our clients, we understand how they best work, but then we also see the opportunities and we can guide them towards those opportunities. You know, what people don't understand is that we see different clients, different businesses every single day. Maybe two or three times a day, we see these different businesses. So we learn from them. We can see where there are bridging opportunities between businesses. We can see, right, okay, I've seen this happen before because we we we've we're very experienced in this. So we we can guide you to maybe avoid that pitfall. So it's it's a case of not me giving specific um examples, but you know, I've got a a business at the minute where they are doing so, so well, but they also understand that they need to take it step by step. There's no rushing into it because we've sat down, we've got a strategic plan. We understand where we're going, we know that there's no surprises in the next five years, really, um, because we've spent the time at the very outset. We've also got businesses that are actually, you know, there just as hobbies, really. But again, just because we term it a hobby business, the courts won't be guided by that if something goes wrong. It's the same regulatory framework, it's the same rules, the same principles that every business, be that a hobby business or be that a multinational business. So we can't just underestimate the the smaller businesses. And neither should we take for granted that the big businesses know what they're doing. Yeah. So, you know, for example, I had a client come in last week. He said, Right, I'm ready now to go out and uh to tender and so on. So we need a sort of precedent document because I need to understand the terms. So if anybody phones me, I know what's going on in this. So we spent a long time together going through, right, okay, this is the sort of contract that I would want you to work from. This is what your guidelines are, these are the non-negotiables. Because, you know, I can't be with them every day of every week. So at least if I can sit down with them and guide them, or they can form me during the meeting, then we can we can sort it out before things get dicey.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Excellent. Thank you for that. Oh.
SPEAKER_01Any more questions? No, no. We can go back to what you want to say now, cloth for closing this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so as I say, you know, we're here. We're here to help, but make sure that you get the right person on board. I'm not saying that's me, but I'm saying every business will have their own legal advisor. And make but as long as you do have a legal advisor, the worst business will not, but we're not talking about those. We're talking about people who are engaged in what I'm saying and want to learn more about how to create maybe a relationship with solicitor and who want to make or definitely want to super boost their business.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So, yeah, so that's really where this podcast is going. But I need people to engage with me. Thank you for those who are engaging with me, but there's always room for more. So contact me in any way you can. I'm at DPA Law. My email address is Katherine.d at dpalaw.co.uk, and I'm always ready to help you. So stay tuned for the next one. Looking forward to having you there. Thanks, Katherine.