You're Not Broken

Ren Collier has spent 15 years helping older adults get strong, build confidence, and do things they thought were behind them. A certified personal trainer and the founder of Fit RX, he's spent his career pushing back against the "light weights, take it easy" approach to aging.

We talk about how Ren found his calling working with older adults (it was not the plan), what older bodies actually need versus what the fitness world often tells them they need, why he's never had a single client hurt their back in 15+ years of deadlifting, and how we can drop the barriers that keep older women out of the weight room. 

We also get into the mindset transformation that happens when older women start getting stronger, how to find a trainer who won't treat you like you're made of porcelain (or like you're 25), and what to do if the one you have isn't working out.

Whether you're brand-new to strength training or a seasoned older lifter who just needs ammunition to share with the skeptics in your life, Ren's perspective is one you'll want to hear.

Find Ren on Instagram at @renfitrxvt; Facebook at fortitudetrainingsystems; and online at his website vagaro.com/fitrxvt.

For show notes and past episodes of That Badass Broadcast, visit thatbadassbroad.com/podcast.

Writing on strength, training, and competing later in life at thatbadassbroad.com.

Clips and training on Instagram: instagram.com/mirslam.

Full episodes on YouTube: youtube.com/@thatbadassbroad.

Transcript

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Miriam Lawrence 0:00

Welcome to that badass broadcast. Real stories and straight talk about lifting weights for women in midlife and beyond. So, Ren Collier, welcome to that badass broadcast. I am really glad that you're here. Anybody that's been listening to the first few episodes uh has probably noticed that most of the guests up until now have been, well, broads, women who have discovered the the magic of lifting and the transformative power of strength in their lives. And that's normally who I have on the show or in the podcast, but um I wanted to change things up. I'm gonna be changing things up going forward from time to time, and having experts like Ren who work with those women, encourage those women, medical professionals, health professionals, sports and fitness professionals, who really help them to harness that and learn how to do that. And so I wanted to have Ren on. Ren is a friend. He's also a certified personal trainer, has been working for about, I believe, about 15 years now as a trainer, mostly with older folks, and and that includes a lot of women, men and women both, but that is sort of Wren's specialty, is really helping older folks get into strength training and use it to transform their lives and get healthy, but also young people as well. And Brenn has a business called Fit RX here in Vermont, where we both live, which is growing in some exciting ways, which he can talk about. So with that, you know, I'm just really happy to have you here. So thanks.

Ren Collier 1:28

Yeah, thank you for having me. Yeah, yeah, it's uh exciting time uh in the past seven, eight months now, with a lot of a lot of changes for me, open the business and taking care of two crazy toddler girls at home, and they're giving us a run for our money, so that uh that fitness is paying off a little bit, so I at least have some extra energy at the end of the day to spare for them.

Miriam Lawrence 1:53

Ren is a pretty serious lifter as well, and I'm imagine, Ren, that um lifting is a great way to blow off some steam for you with those toddlers.

Ren Collier 2:02

Absolutely, yeah. I'm you know, from a young age, I I played a lot of team sports and was a bit of an angry teen and needed to have a healthy outlet for some of those things, and uh found that through physical activity, sports, you know, being a part of a team was something that I loved uh and then eventually found the weight room, and that's really been a great source of just giving me an outlet, time to for myself to take care of myself. Uh, it's a little more in short supply these days, but I make sure to still make it a priority because if I'm not practicing what I preach, what right do I have to preach it to people?

Miriam Lawrence 2:39

Well, fair enough. Um, well, that's a great, a great segue into how you got into personal training. So you were an athlete, you obviously found the weight room through the sports that you did. At what point did you decide, hey, this is the profession that I really want to pursue?

Ren Collier 2:55

Well, I feel like I got pretty lucky because uh I found it early on in my life. I was in high school and played sports, like I said, through grade school, middle school, a bunch of different sports, but I started playing football in sophomore year of high school, and seems like a little bit of a stereotype, but that's how I found the weight room was from playing high school football. By no means was I a great athlete, uh, but it was a great outlet for me, and just fell in love with with training and the weight room in particular, and I didn't know that personal training was even a thing until senior year when I was just trying to figure out what I was gonna do with my life, and I was pretty fortunate to to find that or that passion early on. I went to school and studied health science at a state college here in Vermont, which has helped me a little bit, but you can only learn so much from a book. You can read a book, you can you can study, and it can tell you the right things to do when coaching a squat, but you get somebody in front of you that is lacking serious mobility or maybe had a joint replacement in the last year, or whatever the case may be, and all of a sudden all that stuff from that book goes right out the window. So there's a lot of on-the-job training, and now finally becoming a business owner years later, and that's the there's really not a book for it. I've already learned some valuable lessons in the first six months of owning my own business, but I'm enjoying it. It's been a dream of mine since I was that little kid in high school, where everybody was like, Oh, you gotta give me a free gym membership when you open it. And after hearing that at least a dozen times, I'm like, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to make any money doing this. But it's it's worked out pretty well.

Miriam Lawrence 4:49

Yeah, I think you you seem to have a pretty great uh rapport with your clients, and uh, I'm sure your business is gonna thrive, and I'm very happy for for you with that happening. I'm assuming that you didn't go into personal training initially thinking I'm gonna be working with older folks. Um, maybe you did, but I'd love to hear more about that. But if you didn't, how did that pivot happen? When did you realize that that was the population you really wanted to serve and why did you decide that?

Ren Collier 5:14

Yeah, great question, because I did not plan on that at all. My vision was to work with football players because I was obsessed with the game. My vision was to train athletes, uh, but I quickly found out once I got out of school and got into the the workforce that there weren't a whole lot of opportunities around Vermont for that. I interned at UVM and worked with their varsity athletes, which was a fantastic experience. And I learned a lot, but one of the biggest lessons was yeah, this isn't for me. I was working as a personal trainer at several other gyms in the in the area, and a lot of the clientele were middle-aged or even seniors, and I just came to find out that it was a lot of fun working with them. We had great conversations. I really was able to learn from them and come out of my shell over time because I was pretty I'm still introverted, but uh, you know, over time I was able to to kind of let my personality shine through. I'd had a really hard time interacting with adults and and people that I didn't know, so that helped me quite a bit. But the other thing is they appreciate it in a different way because they've probably lost a step or two, they've probably lost their ability to go on a walk with their kids or grandkids, or they've lost their ability to do simple tasks in their yard or around their house. And so when they start gaining more strength back and kind of turning back the clock, they they appreciate it and they get excited over the seemingly littlest things. One of the stories I always tell people is uh one of my 70-year-old clients came to me one day all excited and said, I carried a 30-pound bag of dog food to my car without even thinking about it. I usually have one of the people at the store carry it out for me, and I didn't even know it was happening until I got it in there. You know, just little things like that, and they they light up and it it gets me fired up as well. So it kind of happened organically working with middle-aged folks and and mainly women. I do train some younger folks, but predominantly it's it's women late 30s to 50s, and then I do have a uh group of seniors that I train a few times a week in a large group format that are just fantastic people, and we've really created a fun community.

Miriam Lawrence 7:53

So when when older folks, whether they be, you know, 40s, 50s, 60s, come to you initially, what do you find they're mostly looking for? What are their goals at that point? Um, you mentioned fo you know people are had sort of taken a step back and they can't necessarily do the things that they want to be doing. Um are they really aware of those limitations when they come to you and they're looking to address them? Are they, you know, just I just want to get healthier or I just want to live longer? Like what do you hear mostly? And I'm kind of curious also if those goals tend to shift at all when they start working with you? Like, do you see any change in sort of what's important to people or what they're really lighting up about?

Ren Collier 8:34

Most of the time it's more about health, especially in recent years. The idea of weight training being so important for women in particular has really caught traction finally, because when I started, people were saying women shouldn't lift weights because they're gonna get too bulky. The whole cliche that a lot of people unfortunately still believe, still buy into. There is seemingly more and more media. They're putting out articles and it's on the news once in a while about how it is healthy. And uh the same thing with seniors, you know, people were telling me don't make them deadlift, don't they should be sitting and lifting small weights. And I, you know, maybe it was ignorance or maybe it was a little bit of you know young male ego. I don't know, but like, why not? You know, why why shouldn't they lift weights? You know, they uh people should be strong. And so I went for it, but um, I think the research and the what's out there in the public now is is starting to catch up with some of the other trainers and myself that that have been doing that early on. So a lot of times people come to me, they they just want to get healthier, but nowadays it's kind of shifted where I'm hearing more people saying, I want to get stronger, I want to make sure my bone density, I keep that or I improve that, which I've had a number of people over the years report to me that their bone scans have improved. They've gone from osteoporosis back into osteopenia or from osteopenia back to normal. And you know, the results can can vary depending on uh many factors, but you know, if you're weight training consistently two, three days a week, you can see a massive improvement in those numbers, in your body's ability to function, in reducing pain, muscle, you name it. It's amazing. If it was a drug, it would be the best-selling drug of all time because it checks so many boxes. And uh again, you don't need to do it every day or five days a week, even to get great benefits out of it.

Miriam Lawrence 10:44

Yeah, I really feel like uh I know it's starting to get traction um in the medical community, which is nice to see the degree to which not just, I mean, bone density, obviously, frailty, you know, not having muscle loss cause you to get weaker as you as you age. But the metabolic benefits are tremendous and not understood well, not understood well by the public and not understood well by the medical community, unfortunately. So things like prediabetes, liver disease, you know, all of the things because muscle uses glucose. As I'm sure you know this, and the the your big muscles use the most glucose. So when you lose muscle, your body doesn't process glucose as well anymore, and that tends to lead to really serious metabolic issues as people age. I uh I'm curious if you're hearing from your clients that the that the medical professionals that they work with are more supportive than they used to be, that you used to hear, if they are aware even that the folks are lifting, uh are they sub are they supportive or are they you know trying to say, oh, that's dangerous, don't do it well.

Ren Collier 11:46

Yeah, I hear a mix of different things. It really depends on the medical professional, on the individual, not the necessarily the type. But I still hear from physical therapists, chiropractors, doctors that it's it, you know, they shouldn't be doing it, it's dangerous, the the risk-reward ratio isn't there, you know. Even other trainers, even uh a lot of trainers still still think that seniors or women shouldn't be lifting heavy. And maybe it's because they're they're scared to hurt somebody, maybe it's because they don't personally do it, so they don't know the benefits of it. Maybe it's the lack of education uh about how the body responds to this, and uh maybe a lack of research. I I do my best to keep up with the most recent research that I can. One of the things that was instilled in me from college, always question the dogma, always always look into things, don't just take things at face value. And that's helped me. And don't get me wrong, for anybody trying to navigate the fitness space, there is a ton of conflicting opinions. You can find research articles saying that weightlifting is bad or weightlifting is good or it doesn't do anything. You can find anything, but it it trying to weed it out takes time. It can be tricky, and I've been tricked myself too, especially when I was younger. So, yeah, a lot of people, trainers, PTs, still kind of hold on to those those old, inaccurate ideas that that strength training is dangerous or not good. Now, anything's dangerous if you mismanage it. But even now, like some of the newest stuff that I push back on for a while, it like in particular with like exercise technique, is not as important as people thought. Now, it it's still definitely important. You don't want to just pick a bar up or something with zero regard for your positioning, but there's a lot of evidence to show nowadays that a rounded spine isn't necessarily the culprit of an injury, it's the amount of load if you're lifting too much too fast too soon. I learned from the barbell rehab folks, uh good certification if you're a trainer, by the way. But if you're mismanaging the weight and your techniques out of whack and your body's not ready for it, then yeah, you're you're probably they're at a higher probability of getting injured. So that that's one of the many things that's that's newer that a lot of people still haven't learned yet. And again, I was one of those folks that was like, these people are crazy, they're gonna hurt somebody. The more I looked into it, the the more I realized you know, I don't always have perfect form. My clients don't always have perfect form, but we've slowly built them up over time for their bodies to handle things. And if their form deviates a little bit from the norm, their body can still handle it because we've built it to be resilient, and that's the number one thing.

Miriam Lawrence 14:56

Yeah, and the other thing is everyone's body's different. And so, you know, obviously there are certain principles of technique that are important to remember, but what that looks like from one body to another can be very different. You know, a squat to depth on someone with short femurs versus long femurs looks very different. And there's all this, you know, dogma, as you put it out in the industry, you know, about never let your knees go over your toes and knee, you know, knees caving in is always bad, and that there's all these things, um, some of which don't take female anatomy into account. And that's a big one I've been hearing more about that recently, is that that sort of that knee valgus, those knees coming in, has partly has to do with female hips. They're structured differently than male hips, and all of the research was always based on men. So this is starting to change. But it's great to hear, you know, you've really been sort of forward thinking about this all along. That must have been hard for you to push back. I mean, like the the the the fear of heavy weight is pervasive. And it's really funny, you know, because I've been doing this now for 10 years myself, and I st I have people they see videos of me and they're like, I could never do that, I'd hurt my back. You know, or I have back problems, I'm gonna like I can't handle that. And I I'm like, I had terrible chronic back problems my entire life, starting in my teens because of doing gymnastics and stuff, and it was lifting that cured it. There's this societal thing about, especially deadlifting, but generally just weight training in general. So, do you find that people who come to you to get stronger to train have these fears at the and and how do you help them get past that?

Ren Collier 16:30

Yeah, that that's a tricky one because it depends on if they're open to it or not. And again, they maybe they worked with another coach or or physical therapist for a period of time, and that individual instilled in them certain beliefs, or maybe it was multiple practitioners from different fields over time that led them to believe like my body is broken and I need to be careful and I need to take it easy because I'm this age, or whatever the case may be. I think it takes a little bit of first establishing some rapport with with the person and showing them that your back's not gonna explode if you pick something more than five pounds up. In fact, your back's probably gonna feel better after a while. It takes some time, but I I actually literally just started working with a new individual, and the second session I had her deadlift, and she's had really bad sciatic pain for uh a number of years and disc issues and whatnot, which by the time you get over 50, I mean, it you look on imaging, everybody's got some sort of disc issue, it's just whether or not they present with actual pain, but that's another thing. But she looked very uncomfortable, very hesitant, even almost in tears as she was deadlifting. And I had her picking up 35 pounds, which I've yet to have somebody that couldn't pick that up on day one, and she did it just fine. Her technique looked great, but she was very clearly uncomfortable. So we had to have a little chat after just to check in and make sure she she felt okay, and you know she she felt just fine, but she was just so nervous because she's been in pain for so long, and she's probably heard a lot of these things about bars being dangerous or scary or deadlifting being bad for your back. But she walked away unscathed, and people walk away unscathed all the time. The number of people I've had hurt their back in any sort of major way that kept them out of the gym or out of life or months, whatever, is exactly zero in my entire 16-year career, and I've had probably several hundred people deadlift under my watch and squat with a bar on their back and jump around. Again, if you take the right approach, use progressive overload, which is basically starting slow or starting light and slowly, gradually building your way up over time, your body can handle so much more than you ever would have thought possible. But the first step is to buy into the fact that you can do it, but not today. So, someone like yourself that's been now doing this for 10 years, yeah, that person talking to you, they can't do that yet, but maybe in another five to ten years, yes, absolutely. But you what they're seeing is the product of thousands of hours of practice and work and probably research on your part and training from coaches and hours on the platform, they don't see all that, they just see the video and like, oh my god, but there's there's so much behind that. So, yeah, I I always try to tell people because they'll see my seniors, some of which can deadlift close to or over 200 pounds, and that's you know, sounds maybe like a lot, but for those folks that have been training with me for four, five, six years now, consistently, yeah, they all started light, but now they're there. So it it can be tricky with the with the buy-in because people just seek the end result on uh social media or or it maybe in person.

Miriam Lawrence 20:03

Yeah, no, I mean I I remember when I first was getting started, um, I saw Jen Thompson. People that are powerlifters here will know her name. She don't know if she still has the biggest bench press pound for pound, male or female in the world, but she did for quite a number of years. She was benching over 300 at 132 pounds of body weight, and she's been lifting for thir 30 plus years now. And she said, I I started with the bar, I couldn't lift the bar, you know. And that's how you start. You see you lift something. And so good on your client. That's that's awesome, your new client, that she was willing to take the risk, even and and also good on you. Um, I'd had another personal trainer on Karen Sanford Taylor, who was talking about active listening and how important it is to actively listen as a personal trainer to your clients, and that some trainers aren't so good at listening. But you were clearly not just listening, but paying attention even to her face and what what you she was projecting to you. Do you find that people that feel fear like that and discomfort when they have success and they walk away unscathed, as you said, that that tends to build confidence over time and they're a little bit less afraid the next time?

Ren Collier 21:10

Definitely. I mean, more often than not, absolutely. That there's always some where they have trouble with the idea of changing for whatever reason, maybe part of their identity is wrapped up in the fact that they're weak or they're brittle or whatever the case may be. And you know, I do my best to help as many people as I can. Uh, but yeah, a lot of people over time that confidence builds through exposure and practice and patience and just consistently showing up on the good days, the bad days. This is a marathon, not a sprint. It's showing up week after week, year after year. That's where the real results come in. That's where you see the results from uh on the bone scans, or your metabolic health improving, or your ability to do more work, whether it's contributing to your family. Family like yard work or taking care of the grandkids and playing with them, whatever the case may be, it's so vital. But again, it's hard for some people to get past the fact that maybe they just feel like they're brittle. But that confidence, yeah, again, it comes from just that consistent exposure to doing the thing, and more importantly, to work through certain ailments or or disbeliefs in yourself. So, as a coach, for a long time it's been okay, you got these limitations, let's work around them.

Miriam Lawrence 22:31

Yeah.

Ren Collier 22:32

Well, a lot of my more recent education and research is now, okay, no, like maybe how do we work around it right now? But how do we work through it so then we can get back to doing X, Y, or Z, whether it's a deadlift or something at home that you need to do that you haven't been able to for whatever reason. And so I've invested a lot of time and money into learning some of the newest things. Just got back from a workshop a couple weeks ago, put on by some amazing physical therapists, have some of the cutting-edge information and and approaches. So I'm I'm learning more detailed ways to help improve pain that might be showing up from a smaller joint or something like that, instead of just working around everything all the time, which you can always adapt, as your as your coach says, adapt or die, right? And that that's the thing. You yeah, you if if one thing doesn't work for you, there's always something else. There's so much equipment as a gym owner or business owner now. I'm looking into different kinds of equipment that you can work with. So there's more than just the straight barbell or kettlebells or bands, and there's there's something out there for you that that can absolutely work if you just stay consistent.

Miriam Lawrence 23:44

Well, you know, I mean, and the knowledge that you're getting, I think there are a lot of personal trainers out there that really don't have the physiology knowledge or the confidence to work uh on, not just around an injury or a or a an issue. Yes, you adapt around, you know, if there's an acute injury that you can't train through, you need to let it heal, you you can train around it. But once it's healed enough, then we're looking at what why did you get that injury? What caused it? What was the upstream cause? You know, what what imbalance maybe do you have? What weakness do you have? What mobility issue, whatever it is, the body is a brilliant thing and it adapts so wonderfully to constrain. And so it will, you know, move things around and do things maybe not in the most ideal way that will end up having consequences, but so we can get stuff done, right? And it sounds like that's really something you're focusing on more in your practice, which is, I think, unusual and makes you a pretty unique and valuable commodity in the training industry.

Ren Collier 24:46

Thanks. Yeah, it's it's amazing the things that I didn't know because I did take anatomy and physiology, I did take exercise physiology, which, you know, I'm getting a little bit older now, so there's new information out there that I didn't learn, but I never took any like biomechanics or anything of that nature. And I that's some of the stuff I'm now learning. I'm learning how the foot operates in more detail and what sort of things you can do to help with that, because that can cause any number of issues up the chain of your body. If you lack the ability to pronate effectively or get your foot into supination, the different things that have to go on to compensate for that can lead to any number of health issues or pain. Over 50% of the forces that go through your body when you run go through the foot and ankle complex. So if you're a runner or a walker or just an active person in general, that could be a missing link for you, besides just doing some heavy squats, lunges, and cardio and so forth. Uh, so that some of these little things that I just was more or less clueless on before, you know, us coaches, yeah, we know we know how to coach a squat, most of us anyway, and a bench press or a lunge or whatever, but then it's like, oh, the foot, that's for PTs. Well, not necessarily. I'm not gonna call myself a physical therapist by any means, but we we need to start leveling up because we're not doing so well. We still got like 80% of Americans with back pain uh report it, but only 5% actually need surgery for it. So you got people with back pain that might not need it. Uh, and then long-term, those issues can come back up even after surgery, because just statistically, your your odds of having long-term results or long-term improvements with your back health is no better than a coin flip. And a lot of times, if you do physical therapy instead, the results are just as good, if not better. And we're dying of cardiovascular disease, a lot of things that uh can be helped tremendously by activity and nutrition, but doctors aren't learning nutrition, and they're the the benefits of that are just astronomically more than the amount of education they get for that. And same thing with with weight training. A lot of these cardiovascular issues, even dementia, diabetes, they're they're all heavily lifestyle affected. If we're not trying to improve our our own abilities, our education on a regular basis, like we're doing the world a disservice. Unfortunately, with physical therapists, a lot of times if you have some major surgery or injury, they get you good enough to just be able to function at the bare minimum, that might not be so good if you want to actually go out and enjoy your life.

Miriam Lawrence 27:38

I don't know how you perceive this, but I think that because society has this sort of pervasive viewpoint about what it means to age, and it's not a good viewpoint, it's uh it the weakness is inevitable, loss of mobility, mental faculties, all of these things in our society are just considered part of normal aging, and they're not part of normal aging. They are they are dysfunctional aging. And I think a lot of physical therapists, because of the population that they tend to see, don't necessarily question that. So I think the level that they're trying to get people even back to is a much lower level of function than they are in fact capable of theoretically, which is one of the reasons that I'm doing this podcast. It's one of the reasons that I'm, you know, turned into an evangelist to try to get more older women and older people in general lifting. It's not a coincidence you said 80% of people are reporting back pain. Only 20% of the population lifts weights. I don't think that's a coincidence. Um yeah, I completely agree with you. Like I feel like we need more conversation and more dialogue and more sharing of information between the medical community, the physical therapy community, and the health and fitness and personal training community. And if we had more of that and everybody was learning from everyone, you know, we would be in a much better place as a society, health-wise. But sort of speaking to that a little bit, those those barriers, um, from your experience, what have you seen and heard are the barriers that tend to keep older women in particular out of the weight room? And how do you help overcome those?

Ren Collier 29:07

It kind of goes back to beliefs that weight training is is dangerous, not good for you, or their perception that they don't have time for it, financial issues. It's challenging. I mean, once I get somebody in front of me, um, I have enough experience to hopefully get them to buy in. But yeah, people need to to be to be ready for it. I never try to convince or push it on anybody, but I do just lay out the facts that this is this is safe, this is gonna benefit you and change uh change so much more about your life than you could imagine beyond just the physical. I think it comes from the building rapport with people and trying to change the narratives that this is not only safe but can enhance so much of your life. I mean, you can't live without it. I mean, at least you can't live well with it. Maybe you're gonna live just as long, but you know, maybe that last decade of your life is not so great because you're sick and immobile. We can certainly maybe not get more years, but we can get a lot more quality years from that. So yeah, it's it's tricky to convince people because there's so much they still hold on to as far as those old narratives go, uh, that uh are whole hopefully on their way out, but still, like you said, it's it's going slow. I mean, I've been in this space for I guess if you don't just count my years actually working in it, I've been in it over 20 years, and we're just starting to see some some movement towards the you know, weight training being okay, actually.

Miriam Lawrence 30:41

Well, I want to come back to the transformative power of of lifting in a minute. Um I'm wondering if you see differences, because you do work with men also. I know you work more with women than with men, but you do have some male clients. Do you see differences in what holds them back mentally in terms of whether it be social stigma about lifting? You mentioned it earlier, you know, getting bulky, which I have to laugh at because I've been at this for 10 years and I just wish I could be bulkier. There's a little muscle here, but I don't I don't think I'm looking like the Hulk right now yet. Uh but anyway, so that's one I know of for sure. I don't think men have that fear. But what other differences besides the sort of general societal fear about getting hurt do you see between male and female clients, or do you not really see a difference?

Ren Collier 31:29

Well, uh there's definitely, yeah, there's not so much of a uh issue with getting getting bulky per se. I don't have a lot of male clients. A lot of them seem to prefer going it alone, more or less. Like they'll have they'll they'll get coaches one-on-one if they do anything, but not as often will they be in classes. And some some of them, even in a class, they kind of fade into the background so they they kind of keep them to themselves, which is fine. I don't have a problem with it. But I think uh you definitely see a lot more women in gyms in general, I think. I think even outside of the gym, they tend to be more health conscious in general. Men, whether it be, you know, I have the strength to do everything I want, why do I need to go to the gym? Um that that could be some barrier for for them, or maybe they are afraid of making a fool of themselves because maybe they feel like they should know how to do everything and making mistakes or looking kind of silly on on your first day, is it's tough for anybody to to get over. I I believe that men generally have have uh just as hard of a time with something like that, but they don't they don't talk about it. They don't talk about it. It's like for me personally, I'm pretty I'm a pretty open book. I think that's one of the ways I've been able to do well and connect with with women and make them feel comfortable in the gym and and people in general, is I keep it light, I coach people up and and get serious when I need to, but a lot of the times I'm cracking jokes, I'm playing little mind games with people, and you know, just playfully and stuff, and and keep keeping it fun because it doesn't have to all be serious, it doesn't have to be all doom and gloom, like you need to get those bones stronger, so I'm gonna yell in your face and make you lift to 500 pounds, whatever the case may be, you know. But yeah, I mean you just ask any of my clients. My I I mess, uh mess around, hard time, I'm movie quoting, I'm yelling, I'm singing, whatever it is, just to get some smiles and make sure people know, like, hey, you know, we're working hard and maybe this isn't comfortable, maybe you don't like it so much, but we can still have fun with it. It's okay.

Miriam Lawrence 33:37

One thing I've really seen with you when I watch your social media videos is you're great at getting that extra rep out of people. Um, people have these self-limiting thoughts. And I've, you know, I've found this even with myself. I've discovered if I have to do an AMRAP for people that don't live, that's as many reps as possible, where you're basically just going to train something to failure. If I'm counting the reps, I can't get as many as if I am not counting them. I started just videoing myself and not counting. In fact, I will actively say random numbers in my head as I start like 99, 300, just so I can't keep track, because otherwise I'll just naturally count. It never fails. The the if I'm counting, I do fewer because I'm limiting what I think I'm capable of. And I've watched you with your clients, I'm not trying to make this all about me, but it's relevant. They don't think they can even do one push-up. I've seen you have women who didn't think they could even get one push-up, bang out three or four. So, first of all, good on you, because that's a great thing that you do and you're fun about it, you know. But how do you see that often with women that they have these self-limiting beliefs about what they are capable of that turn out not to be true?

Ren Collier 34:46

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, even some folks that have been with me for a prolonged period of time still feel that way or still nervous once they get past a certain weight or something, they just think I can't, I can't do more. And then I show them a video, I'm like, that weight went up so fast, or your push-ups looked easy, looked really smooth, it looked really good, you know. Because I'm trying to encourage them because that, hey, you you can do more than than you you believe you can. And I got so yeah, I got a lot of videos of people doing push-up tests. How many push-ups can you do in one shot? And uh there was a few years ago one person in particular that she got to three and she thought she was done. I was like, two more. She did two more. Okay, two more. She did two more. Okay, okay, one more, one more. She got to ten, right? And she probably had one or two more left in her at the end. But the point is that you you're you're capable of so so much more. Maybe it's you know, maybe it's society, maybe it's your parents, instill these beliefs that you're you're you're weak, or you're you're small, or who knows where it comes from. There's so many different things that influence us, but yeah, it's showing people that they can squeeze out that extra rep or they can do something that's hard. Maybe their arms are shaking or they're uncomfortable or they're sweating and it's getting in their eye and it's burning, whatever. You can still crank out a couple more reps, and it happens, happens almost every day. Same person gets freaked out by the deadlift, and I snuck an extra 10 pounds on her a couple weeks ago, and she she did it thinking it was 10 pounds less. And I was like, Good job. That was 10 pounds more. She was like, Are you serious? A little agitated that I snuck it on on her, but she did it just fine. And so sometimes those mind games, they they do more than just lighten the mood, but show you, hey, you're you're capable of so much more.

Miriam Lawrence 36:40

I'm one of those lifters that I don't, especially in competition, I don't want to know what's on the bar. I mean, I have a sense of what's on the bar, especially if I'm, you know, I know that there's a PR that's sort of so it might be this much, but I let my coach put those numbers in some people really want to know. They're they're very interested in being in sort of in control. And so they definitely want to know exactly what they're gonna lift. I definitely do better. It's sort of like the counting thing if I don't know. So I completely get that.

Ren Collier 37:05

Most people that I train, they don't want to know. I tell them, trust your training, because if if we're doing one rep maxes, we've been training for months for it. We we don't just do it willy-nilly. It's it's planned out ahead of time. And by then they've done hundreds of reps, if not more, of that exercise. And I'm like, just trust your training, don't try to do anything different, just focus on the movement and the rest will take care of itself. You know, we you got you have spotters, you're in a safe space for this. Let's let's give it your best shot. And a lot of times it works out great. Sometimes, sometimes it doesn't. Like, okay, it wasn't your day. That's fine. There's gonna be another chance. And, you know, a lot of people, a lot of people disagree with me that people shouldn't be doing one rep maxes, like nobody should be going past 85% or of their one rep max or something along those lines. I think it's beneficial, you know, maybe there's a case that there's no major physiological benefits of going past a certain percentage or a certain difficulty, but mentally, psychologically, it can be such a such a boost for people, just like that push-up test I talked about earlier. So uh, you know, but the jury's still out. There there could yet still be evidence that comes out that doing maximal loads, uh, you know, sets of one, sets of two are massively beneficial. We don't have a whole lot of data on that yet from what I've seen. But again, people, you know, they they see the growth from it. We track our workouts. Most most of the people I train have recently gone digital, but we've used notebooks for years, and you can flip back and look and see. Like, people, a lot of times they've been training for months or or several years, and they're like, I don't think I've made any progress. They don't, they they can't see it. And like, oh, well, let's take a look. And you flip back a year, and you're oh, your one rep max was 30 pounds lighter last year than it was the other week or whatever, or you're regularly able to do five bodyweight push-ups where before you couldn't do any. Having that objective data in your back pocket, so to speak, is incredibly valuable because sometimes we get down on ourselves and we don't realize just how far we've actually come. Once you've been in it for a while, it kind of becomes more routine. And yeah, maybe some of the excitement goes away because you're not hitting PRs every week anymore. But you gotta look back further and you can see just how much growth there's been.

Miriam Lawrence 39:44

I can't even imagine strength training without ever testing one rep max. I mean, for me personally, and at this point, I'm only doing that literally once a year because I don't max out except on the platform and I'm competing only once a year. So I just spent eight months doing off-season training, it was all hypertrophy style stuff, high endurance and and hypertrophy, and I'm only now just starting to get into heavier lifts because I'm getting ready to compete. But I will test those one rep maxes one time in May, and then I'm probably gonna do it all over again. But it's so psychologically important to do that, I think. And I yes, I'm a competitor, but even if I weren't a competitor, I would still be doing that because you do need that marker, I think, of progress. Agreed.

Ren Collier 40:31

Yeah. So and we only do it two or three times a year, maybe. So it's not like we're redlining people every day. That comes, like I said, a few times a year, if that the rest of the year is sub-maximal, but we're still lifting heavy, we're still uh drilling technique. And I think if coaches, if they're focused on technique and progressive overload, meeting people where they're at, and having the right tools in their toolbox, literally anybody can make major progress. Whether you've been active your whole life and never done weight training, whether you're nine, whether you're 90, the process is the same. It just might take longer for certain people, depending on age and your health and your injury history, things like that. But the the physiological adaptations that take place are the same for everybody. And it it works every single time. But you need an experienced coach that that understands those things, understands how to connect with you, number one, uh, and then number two, they understand how the human body works and what sort of modifications you might need in the beginning to get you there. That's invaluable. In any industry, you know, the majority of practitioners are unfortunately not great, and then that can give the rest of the industry a bad reputation. But if you can do your due diligence, do your research, and maybe meet with more than one coach and find the right person, it's well worth the investment.

Miriam Lawrence 42:06

Well, I'm definitely gonna come back to to picking a a trainer or a coach in a minute. I am interested because a big part of my audience is women who already are involved in some sort of a competitive strength sport. I'm interested in clients that decided to take the strength aspect of it to another level. And that it's not just, hey, I'm gonna come in and do this training and do what you know you tell me to do and it's fine, but really kind of wanted to push the limits and push themselves to get stronger. And I'm just wondering what that's looked like.

Ren Collier 42:42

You know, yeah, it definitely changes things a little bit. It becomes less of a generalized type of program for health and strength and more of, hey, let's make sure we're getting multiple days a week of the same lift in there or some sort of variation. And okay, now we need to focus a little more on your recovery. If your recovery isn't great, if you're not sleeping well and your stress is really high and your nutrition's terrible, then yeah, we're gonna need to shift some of those, some of those other aspects as well. Everybody should be do doing that to a certain extent, too. But the the higher you try to reach, the the more fine-tuning is required. I mean, I pride myself in focusing on the details, but it gets dialed up to 11 when you start uh start thinking about a higher level of physical performance.

Miriam Lawrence 43:34

It's true. So I'm curious what would you say the most important thing is that you've learned about coaching that you couldn't have learned in a textbook? What have you learned that's been important for you?

Ren Collier 43:46

Personal training certification, they talk a little bit about uh psychology and working with different individuals, but i again you gotta you gotta learn that when you're when you're in it. Um Because there's just no rule book. Everybody's a little different, presents a little different, needs a different kind of coach. So you gotta more or less be a chameleon when you're when you're a coach. Some people want the loud cheerleader, other people just want you to shut up and and and get you know give them their cues and let them go uh because the yelling and stuff can be a distraction or even a deterrent. I've had both. And then also specifically working with seniors and people middle-aged that have very little, if any, body awareness how to do an exercise, like especially teaching somebody that has low coordination or or or not hardly any body awareness how to do a hip hinge, like a deadlift or an RDL, where you're sh moving through your hips, but the knees have to kind of stay at this little angle, and then you gotta push back and this and that. There's a lot of different things to think about, and it can take sometimes weeks to get some people into. And I've had a number of clients that had a hard time with that. I've had a number of clients that couldn't skip, couldn't do a jumping jack. How are you supposed to coach that?

Miriam Lawrence 45:13

No, I see it. There was a video about people forgetting how to skip.

Ren Collier 45:17

Right. Or maybe they never learned in the first place, perhaps, but it it happens. You say you tell somebody, okay, let's skip 10 yards, and they just have no idea. It's just not there. And so it breaking things down into little pieces. I mean, this is one of the hacks for life in general. Starting small and just putting a little bit uh, you know, one small step at a time, letting things accumulate over time. And it's helped me as a parent. I mean, coaching, coaching all these years has has taught me so much about how to just work with people through difficult things or or how to learn a new skill. And it's helped me tremendously with my daughters. Yeah, you gotta be willing to take the small steps and not just go for the quick fix. It's so tempting to want to just find that shiny object or dive into that fad diet or whatever, the newest, hottest thing. But really, it it all comes down to consistency, learning from your mistakes, and you can do anything if you have those skills. And so learning to teach people in that way where you're trying to stack small wins and and learn small cues or movements over time, that's invaluable. And that again that comes with experience because if you have somebody that maybe can't lift the bar on day one, then what do you do? You need to you need to find a different implement. You know, maybe we use a kettlebell. Maybe we use a band around their waist to pull their hips back because they just can't seem to understand what it's like to perform a hip hinge, and that again comes with experience. I mean, I'm still learning. I I learned hold a kettlebell behind their back and push their hips against it. I mean, that's you know, the simplest thing, but I just learned that in the last six months, and it's been effective in helping some people learn that. I mean, if you had a textbook full of every exercise, it would be like more volumes than in the encyclopedia. It's ridiculous. There's so many out there. And so it just comes with time and like accumulating that knowledge over time and not just time, but also like intentional learning, seeking out new information and questioning your own beliefs and taking that new information and then applying it or then rewriting those beliefs. I mean, I was one of those coaches that told people don't let your knee go past your toes, or don't overhead press if if you don't have perfect shoulder mobility, things like that. And and so, yeah, new information, new new opinions.

Miriam Lawrence 47:45

Making room for those. Yeah. Well, and we all have to do that, you know, as as clients, we have to do that too. We have to question, you know, we have these belief systems we come in with and also beliefs about ourselves, right? And we have to be willing to question those. So, as a trainer yourself, if let's say you're you were gonna send your mother, your wife, or somebody else to a personal trainer that wasn't you, what are some red flags that they should be looking for that someone isn't a good fit? What can they be looking for in terms of just finding someone and saying this person might be worth my time to begin with? Just a little give a little advice from your perspective, but pretend that you're trying to help someone who's getting started.

Ren Collier 48:25

Yeah, absolutely. If a coach isn't taking notes and tracking your information, you can ask them like, How do you keep track of what I'm doing? Most coaches give a free consultation. You know, that's a question you can ask if they're not tracking things. Coaches that maybe don't do an intake, they don't do any sort of consultation or movement assessment of some kind. That same client I was talking about earlier that was pushing her deadlift, she worked with another coach beforehand that just threw her into some high-intensity interval training and she messed up her back. Well, what that coach didn't know was she had had terrible back pain for two years prior to that experience, and then she just re-injured it. And so if you got a coach that that doesn't do those things, there's no sort of intake, they're, you know, just ask you, you know, you have any injuries or something, it needs to be more than that. That's a huge red flag. If you never see your coach either posting themselves working out on social media, or you never see them in the gym working out, or it seems like they just don't work out at all, I mean, that's that's kind of a red flag, too. Like they need to be practicing what they preach. You know, obviously, if somebody has some sort of injury or medical condition that they can't do certain things, fine, but they need to be experiencing it, they need to know what it's like to push themselves so they know when it might be too much for you or or too little even that can also happen. Those are those are some of the major things. But yeah, they should at least be trying to learn, maybe you know, if they don't every once in a while throughout the year, mention some sort of event they went to or new certification they got. And that's kind of a red flag too, because it can be easy to get complacent in just developing themselves. Right, not developing their own their their trade, their own skills. So, I mean, that's a that's another thing as well.

Miriam Lawrence 50:19

So, one thing I've heard, which I think is an interesting balance that older clients in particular really need to find is there are some trainers like the person you just mentioned. I mean, I'm it's kind of appalling that a a personal trainer or a coach would not do an intake. I mean, that's that's a basic requirement. I I have a personal trainer certification, as you've said, it's textbook learning. I would never go actually train anybody right now. I would want to work with people first, but that's you know, square one. You gotta do the intake. You know, there's certain questions you should be asking just for basic safety. But leaving that aside, I think some trainers um treat older people as if they were 25. And I think some trainers treat older people like they're made of porcelain. So as an older client looking for a trainer or a coach, how can I feel out whether this person understands that older people are capable? Like you said, we all of our bodies work the same way, but they're not going to throw too much at me too quickly like I'm 25. Right.

Ren Collier 51:22

Yeah, I think it just needs to be a question. Do they have experience working with people your age or maybe that have similar ailments to you? Are they used to working with beginners? I mean, I think personally it's harder to coach somebody of that age. It requires more skill and experience. I mean, every coach has to start somewhere. And there was at one point I was that young trainer that was coaching adults, and I can be pretty careful, sometimes a little too careful with people at the beginning. Uh, so that's helped me. But yeah, there are coaches out there that don't understand and push people too fast, and then they get hurt and they think like this isn't for me or this doesn't work, this is for young people. But yeah, if you're somebody that's 50, 60, 70 or up, and you're going to work out with a coach for the first time, you know, definitely be asking them what their experience is, maybe what sort of certifications they have, or are they older themselves? And they get it. They they get what it's like to maybe have back pain to wake up in the morning stiff as a board and have to stretch a little before they get going. Uh that that's that's a that's another thing. So definitely ask those questions, do your due diligence, because if you get put with some rookie trainer that has no concept of how to work with different people, different bodies, then yeah, there there could be a recipe for trouble there. Personally, I think more experienced coaches belong working with those folks. Um, because you know, if you're working with someone that's an athlete and their body's already conditioned well, then yeah, you can go for it. But somebody that's never lifted weights in their life and they haven't done any sort of running or activity in 20, 30 years, then yeah, the the beginning process needs to look different. Again, if they respond the same, but they're not gonna be doing burpees day one, most likely.

Miriam Lawrence 53:11

Well, you probably have to be willing to fire a trainer or a coach if they're not working out. And I think that could be hard for for women sometimes, you know, to to say this isn't working for me and either have a conversation or just say, I, you know, it's not not gonna stay here, you know, I'm gonna find somebody else. I think someone will tend to go along to get along, you know, or or just assume that what's happening is, you know, it's their fault somehow, or they're making a mistake, or they're not good enough, or they're not strong enough, or whatever it is, you know.

Ren Collier 53:42

Absolutely. Yeah, it's like the people that go to the restaurant and have a bad experience and never never come back, you know. It's there's no way of knowing. Um, you know, because they might finish off their package and say, uh, you know, my life's getting busy, or this or that, when you could be maybe looking for another coach or getting a referral from that coach, perhaps. So yeah, having those hard conversations is gonna be tremendously valuable, just as valuable as seeking a coach out in the first place. So you got to find the the right one that you're gonna one be able to work with personality-wise, and then two, somebody that knows how to work with you in your circumstance.

Miriam Lawrence 54:20

Well, flipping the script a little bit from your perspective as a trainer, how can we be better clients? What are the things that clients do that drive you crazy? What are the things that clients do that that, you know, sabotage their own progress or just make you insane?

Ren Collier 54:35

I would say, you know, do your best. You have things like homework, do your best to try to do them so that you have some autonomy in it as well. I think that's huge. You know, try not to go crazy with navigating and exploring social media and getting different ideas, because again, there's a lot of conflicting stuff. But if you do, then yeah, bring it up in conversation and ask, you know, why aren't we doing this or why shouldn't we do this? If you got a good coach, they should be open to having those those conversations and saying, oh, yeah, that that's actually that would be a good idea for you, or no, and they give you a well thought-out explanation of why not. So definitely, you know, some of your own research is is valuable, but but try not to go too crazy with it, because for every good trainer, there's probably 20, 30, 40 out there that are just they're just social media influencers, they're not even coaches that actually work with anybody or know anything at all, for that matter. And then communicate with your coach. If you're doing other things outside of the gym, if you're going on long runs, if you're weight training at other places or something like that, definitely communicate with your coach because if you're pushing it really hard in your sessions and then you're going outside of the session and you're running five miles every day, or you're training for something, or you're pushing hard and lifting, and then going in the next day and wondering why you can't lift just as hard with your coach, you know, you're gonna need to communicate with your coach about that. Or if you have some sort of nagging injury that's been around for a while, but you've just been kind of pushing through it, your coach needs to be aware of that. Your coach needs to be aware of changes in your health or or injuries, perhaps. And, you know, if you're not comfortable sharing those things, you may need to get another coach uh or at least talk to your doctor about it. Because as coaches, it we if we don't know, we can't adjust for you. We can't adjust and and make sure your body's not getting overstressed. Because it's it's all about managing stress and recovery. You know, you need you need the right amount of stress and the right amount of recovery. Too much stress, things go bad. You get burnt out, you get sick, you get chronic back pain, whatever. Uh not enough stress, no results.

Miriam Lawrence 56:56

Yeah, I think a lot of people don't understand the role of recovery. In fact, I know a lot of people don't understand that. I think that the the vast majority of the population thinks that you make your gains in the gym, and they don't understand that you need the gym, but if you're not resting, you're not gonna make any gains. Absolutely. I haven't done this myself, but I've known women who were guilty of of doing extracurricular activity beyond what they were supposedly doing that they were told to do by their coach or their trainer. And um, I've said this on another episode. Like, you know, if if you if you're paying somebody to help you make progress, you need to trust them. If you don't trust them, then why are you paying them? Find somebody you can trust. But if you trust them, then be honest, like you just said, be honest, communicate, and listen to what they tell you to do and not do. You're shooting yourself in the foot otherwise. And why are you paying them?

Ren Collier 57:52

Right. Yeah, and I I work with different personalities and different, I don't know, let's say, motivation levels, some people that want to go above and beyond, and that's fantastic. You can harness that and use that to get more results, but if you're taking it too far, it can spell disaster in the long term, whether it's just your performance slowly deteriorating or your you know, injuries piling up. Yeah, one of the one one of the best quotes I I ever heard in in terms of of coaching was more isn't better, it's just more. That's from Pavel Tatsulin, the man uh responsible for popularizing the kettlebell in the States.

Miriam Lawrence 58:31

Yeah, you have a kettlebell certification, right?

Ren Collier 58:33

Yeah, I let it lapse a while back, but yeah, through his company, Strong First, I went and got certified a few years back and learned a tremendous amount. And it was like training for a competition. Uh, it was very vigorous training. And I mean, you want to talk about people knowing what they're doing. If you have somebody that went through a kettlebell certification, whether it's Strong First or uh Dragon Doored, you're not just reading a book and taking a test. You're doing it. You have to train for months, if not a year or more, for that because the the weekend is is tough, maybe a little more brutal than it should be. But um, but they make sure that you can perform the movements and coach the movements before they let you get their certification. And I think that's how all certifications should be. See, again, if you're not practicing what you preach, you don't know what it's like to push your body, and then you're going and making other people push their bodies, or specifically middle-aged or senior people push their bodies, you have no right. You have no no right to be doing that. You're you're playing with fire.

Miriam Lawrence 59:38

On that note, let's say there's a woman 55, 50, 60, who has never touched a weight in her life and she's curious, but maybe she's nervous. What's the most important thing you want her to walk away from this episode with?

Ren Collier 59:53

Come train with me. No.

Miriam Lawrence 59:54

Uh you don't do virtual training, do you, Ren?

Ren Collier 59:58

Uh no, not not really. Uh, that could be something I explore in the new.

Miriam Lawrence 1:00:03

So for now, if you're in Vermont, go train with Ren. If you're not in Vermont, if they're not in Vermont, Ren, what do you want them to know? Give me your money. No.

Ren Collier 1:00:09

Um, I think what I want you to take from this is you're not broken. You your your body is resilient and it can get become more resilient and it can do amazing things if you give yourself and your body the time and the patience and the effort to build it. And like I said earlier, anybody can do it. It just needs to, you need to zoom out, it needs to be done over the course of months, years, not six weeks, not twelve weeks. Do your due diligence to find a good coach, ask the questions that we talked about earlier, and understand that you're not broken no matter what your doctor, your chiro, or your your physical therapist says, Whatever ailments you have or beliefs that have been instilled with you in you can be slowly peeled away so you can realize your own strength. And this can be transformative. I mean, it's amazing seeing and and feeling the physical benefits of it, but then the confidence that you can build to do other things that are difficult. I mean, for me personally, it was instilled in me by my football coach all those years ago as a young kid that was struggling and had trauma and and had very low self-worth. It took just one really good coach to make me see the power and benefit of some good old-fashioned hard work, what that can do for you, and giving it the time and doing it the right way. I've had I've had good coaches, I've had great coaches, I've had bad coaches in my life. And the thing that stands out the most with them is how detail-oriented they are and their ability to push you at the right time, but then also to pull back and put their arm around you and support you at the right times. And that's what I've tried to be myself as a coach. So many people are terrified of going to the gym, and maybe you're curious, maybe you still have a lot of those fears, but it's not as scary as you may believe. A lot of people in the gym want to share their knowledge with you. Yes, even that gigantic, burly, scary looking dude in the corner grunting away, they're excited to share their knowledge with you nine times out of ten. Yeah, there's there's jerks, there's people in there that aren't so nice, but they're everywhere. They're at the grocery store, they're at work, whatever. So take that first step. That's the hardest one. And uh trust in the process, give it time, and uh enjoy it. The process is the mass majority of the time you put into it. The end result is the peak of the mountain, and then you look, and there's another peak, and another, and another. So enjoy those moments in the gym where you hit a PR, yes, but also enjoy the connections you make with other people. Enjoy the the day you come in and you're at like five hours of sleep and stressed, and you just go and do what you can and move on with your day. You know, joke and enjoy yourself. It doesn't have to be miserable all the time. I got clients that complain all the time of about the exercises we're doing or how hard it is, whatever. But guess what? They keep coming back. And I think it's the culture that we've developed there, and hopefully it's uh some of my ridiculous dad jokes and puns and movie quotes that I'm endlessly doing and making the same jokes for years on end. Hopefully that plays a little bit of a role too.

Miriam Lawrence 1:03:32

Well, for those people that just can't resist hearing your dad jokes and uh live in Vermont or want to see you tell your dad jokes elsewhere on social media, etc., where can people find you? Where can people find you on socials? Where can people find you in terms of your website, and where can people actually go to work with you if they are lucky enough to be in uh in northwestern Vermont?

Ren Collier 1:03:55

Uh so yeah, I'm on Instagram um uh at coachren, fitrx uh VT, and uh I'm on Facebook, uh just fit RX is my page there. Uh and then uh Vigaro.com slash FitrxVT. Uh you can find uh me there and uh my rates and things like that. And then I got you know, I have content that I post uh semi-regularly these days, and uh feel free to DM me or just check out some of the stuff I have there. And you know, I hope uh I hope this conversation, you know, is inspired you in some way to make some little change, whether it's trying to do a workout program at home on your own or seeking out a coach or going to a group fitness class, you know, just uh try try to get moving and just make some positive changes for yourself because at the end of the day, that's what it's all about.

Miriam Lawrence 1:04:49

Well, I feel like this is a great conversation even for experienced lifters because they may be working with someone and it's not going great. And I think you are exemplary in what you represent in terms of how to work with clients, how to listen, how to adapt to different sets of needs, how to really focus on professional development. You know, like you said, you're you're in this learning mode all the time and questioning and not assuming that just because you knew something five years ago that it's still right now. Um, these are truly special characteristics that many coaches and trainers do not have. I'm very lucky I have a coach that does have them, so I can attest to that because I've worked with folks that don't, and it's a huge difference. So, Brennan thank you so much for taking the time.

Ren Collier 1:05:34

Absolutely. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This was fantastic, got me fired up. I'm I'm sad I don't have a uh a class or a client to go to right now because I'm all fired up.

Miriam Lawrence 1:05:44

Cool. Well, go bring that energy to your kids and go play. Thanks so much for listening to that badass broadcast. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you're subscribed wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find the show notes for this episode at that badassbroad.com forward slash podcast. And you can subscribe there for my writing on strength, training, and competing later in life. You can watch the full video of this episode on YouTube at That Badass Broad. And for clips and training, follow me on Instagram at Mearslam, M-I-R-S-L-A-M. Thanks again for being here and have a badass day.