Harder to Kill

Jennifer Perrier has been throwing barbells over her head for over a decade. A 5-time Pan American Masters champion, two-time World Championship medalist, and USAW Level 2 coach, she's one of the most accomplished Masters Olympic weightlifters in the country. She's also 56, has osteoarthritis in her hip, and just went six for six at Masters Nationals less than a year after emergency surgery for a ruptured appendix and an accident that totaled her car three weeks before competition.

In this episode, we talk about how a friend's road trip to Kentucky launched Jennifer's weightlifting career; what it took to come back from abdominal surgery in a sport where everything starts from the core; how she manages the "critical mind" and limiting beliefs both in herself and in her athletes; what a woman lying in the next hospital bed with a broken hip did to Jennifer's sense of mission; and how she coaches athletes who are navigating pain, aging bodies, and the constant recalibration that Masters sport demands. 

We also get into the mental game of Olympic lifting, her unorthodox approach to competing with arthritis, and how she's building what she calls "an army of people who are harder to kill."

Find Jennifer at www.jenniferperrier.com, on Instagram at @jp.weightlifting and @kittyperrier, and on Facebook at facebook.com/jpweightlifting.

For show notes and past episodes of That Badass Broadcast, visit thatbadassbroad.com/podcast.

Writing on strength, training, and competing later in life at thatbadassbroad.com.

Clips and training on Instagram: instagram.com/mirslam.

Full episodes on YouTube: youtube.com/@thatbadassbroad.

Transcript

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Miriam Lawrence 0:00

Welcome to that badass broadcast real stories and straight talk about lifting weights for women in midlife and beyond. Welcome Jennifer Perrier from Nashville. Right? Yeah. Thrilled to have you here. Jennifer is an Olympic lifter. So for those of you that aren't familiar with strength sports or are more into powerlifting and don't know, Olympic lifting is the one where people have to put stuff up over their head. And it's called Olympic lifting because we stayed in the Olympics, which is something the powerlifting feds would love to have happen, but that has not happened. So two primary lifts, the snatch and the clean and jerk, again, going up over the head. And Jennifer is really good at throwing stuff up over her head. She has won more national and international masters competitions than I can even count.

Jennifer Perrier 0:54

And I actually, yeah, I just want to tell you, because of being on this podcast, I actually looked at my competition history and I've actually been in more than 45 competitions. I have no idea.

Miriam Lawrence 1:06

It's amazing. So Jennifer not only competes, but you're also a a referee, uh judge, a coach, and a meet director.

Jennifer Perrier 1:15

Yes.

Miriam Lawrence 1:16

As if there weren't enough to do.

Jennifer Perrier 1:18

Right. I don't know why I need to wear this many hats, but apparently it's just something I do.

Miriam Lawrence 1:23

And Jennifer, you just got back from Masters Nationals in Little Rock, Arkansas, where you went six for six, which for those of us in powerlifting, it's like nine for nine. It's a perfect score in Olympic lifting, getting all six of the attempts. Um added five kilos to your total, and I know you've had a crazy little bit more than 12 months, like the last last year, which is uh crazy for you, and and coming back from a really major surgery and some other stuff that we'll talk about. Um so congratulations on on masters and we'll get into that. But I want to go back to the beginning a little bit about how this all started for you. I know you started actually dedicated Olympic lifting, I want to say like a decade or so ago, a little more. But you you started in CrossFit, if I'm not mistaken. So let me tell you a little bit about that.

Jennifer Perrier 2:10

I found my husband and I found ourselves in our late 30s um having sat in front of a computer for way too long and not exercising. And we ran across CrossFit, and at that point there were very few gyms in Nashville, and we started and we really liked it. And so my husband is still doing CrossFit, but I went over to the dark side and became an Olympic weightlifter, mostly because a friend of mine asked me to go to a competition, a local competition, but it happened to be in Kentucky. And uh my supposition is that she wanted me to drive her to Kentucky. That's my my theory. Actually, I think she just wanted a friend to go with, but we had a great time, it was really fun. But then I didn't compete again for a year because I don't know, I just kind of was like, Oh, I guess I'll just keep doing CrossFit. But the year rolled around and I did the second competition and I thought, you know, I really like this better. And also, I'll never get a ring muscle up in CrossFit, so that's not gonna happen. So why don't I just do weightlifting instead?

Miriam Lawrence 3:15

What did you enjoy more about the weightlifting, about the barbell work, do you think? What appeals to you about it?

Jennifer Perrier 3:21

Um as I went along, it it's very technical, right? And so you constantly have to be tweaking your form, getting stronger in your whole body, but also it's just fascinating to figure out your leverages, your start position, working on mobility, all that kind of stuff. It's just a it's always a work in progress. You're never gonna be done. And I just love it. I think it's really fun.

Miriam Lawrence 3:44

Now, presumably you had been doing those lifts during CrossFit, right? Because CrossFit does both snatch and clean and jerk. So I'm assuming that you had experience. When did you start to feel in the process like you were really kind of technically starting to get it? Like, did you feel that way before you started doing dedicated Olympic training? Or we did not.

Jennifer Perrier 4:04

Um, in fact, when I started competing, I could not do what what you know crossfitters call a squat snatch and what Olympic weightlifters just call a snatch, right? I couldn't pull myself down into the bottom of a squat in a snatch, which is you know the overhead lift where your arms are wide. So um I had to really work hard on that aspect of the lift and didn't actually do power snatches on purpose for several months. I I only tried to pull myself down into the bottom of the squat until it became more natural. And that it took a while, right? It doesn't happen overnight. Everything is kind of, like I said, a work in progress.

Miriam Lawrence 4:46

Was it a mobility issue for you? Like you had to sort of get your joints more mobile, or was it a technique issue or strength or a confidence issue and a bit of a strength issue, although I've always had strong shoulders.

Jennifer Perrier 4:58

Um, but just gaining confidence in that overhead position, you have to want to be there, honestly. There's a whole period of time where you have to be you have to go up fast and you have to pull down fast, and my body didn't at the time want to pull down fast. And um, you know, you talk about mobility. Well, I was much more mobile when I was when I first, you know, started. And now with you know, osteoarthritis and menopause and hip issues, I have a whole different mobility that I have to work with. Um this is something that you know a lot of athletes in their 40s and 50s will need to deal with constantly shifting them scales on the money.

Miriam Lawrence 5:36

It's true. And I I mean seeing somebody like you who works through it and around it doesn't let it stop you is you know is inspiring. And that's one of the things. Believe me, I'm not gonna lie. Why do we do this to ourselves? Because it's fun. It's fun to hurt, it's great. Um, so tell me more about that first weightlifting competition that you did. You know, what did you expect walking in? Were you were you?

Jennifer Perrier 6:07

I honestly had no idea what to expect.

Miriam Lawrence 6:09

Um, I went with my friend.

Jennifer Perrier 6:10

It was the the primary goal was to just you know see what would happen, right? And so we both competed. I I I it was over so quickly compared to a a CrossFit competition. You know, if you go to a CrossFit competition, you you might be there half a day or all day or something. And I mean, it was like boom, boom, boom. Three snatches are done, and I was like, wait, we're done. And then it was like three cleaner jerks. Oh, okay, now I have a total, that's cool, but you know, and everybody's like, oh, let's go out to eat. And I was like, well, I can get behind that. So anyway, yeah.

Miriam Lawrence 6:43

So it's I I just was surprised, like it seemed like it went by really quickly. How long does a typical Olympic lifting meet last? I've not ever been to one live.

Jennifer Perrier 6:53

A session is usually anywhere from 10 to 15 lifters, and um, as you know from powerlifting, it goes in order, the barbell keeps getting heavier, but it's not in flight like uh powerlifting is. And a typical session will usually run two to two and a half hours, and then you're done. But in within that two and a half hours, you're basically on the platform for one minute for each lift, right?

Miriam Lawrence 7:18

It's pretty comparable to powerlifting if it's not a uh huge meet with like one platform and you just spend the entire day sitting around.

Jennifer Perrier 7:28

Like a single athlete, it'll take them you know five hours to get through the powerlifting meet. So maybe I've been going to different ones.

Miriam Lawrence 7:34

I don't know, but well, they're getting better about that now. I uh I'm finding especially the bigger competitions, they're doing more sessions where they'll have a morning session and an afternoon session rather than having everybody lift through the entire day. So yeah, it makes it much nicer. It's it really ends up being just a few couple, you know, two, three hours instead of the whole day. Speaking of big competitions, you ended up going to was it um the Pan Americans 2016, like within a year or so of having started in Olympics.

Jennifer Perrier 8:03

So I've I've been to Pan American Championships several times. That's my favorite competition because I've won it five times. Like I don't know why, but it just seemed to be good lucky, good luck for me. Um I just love the cities that they've chosen to have it in. Also, um, that's been a lot of fun to travel. That's one one benefit of Masters Weightlifting is you get to travel to interesting places. Also, since you start knowing fellow lifters, then you know you just you're like, oh, I'm going on vacation. I get to see my friends and I get to do weightlifting. What's that alike? And then everybody goes out and eats.

Miriam Lawrence 8:39

So exactly. Yeah. No, it's it's great to have that a reason to travel. So where was that that uh that first Pan Americans that you went to?

Jennifer Perrier 8:47

The first one that like really mattered was the one in Puerto Rico. And um, of course, that is still the United States.

Miriam Lawrence 8:54

Lest we forget. Well, so what did you learn from that first international competition? We will always have listeners who are sort of newer to whatever sport it is they're doing, and they have not done a big competition or a big international competition. What advice would you give folks?

Jennifer Perrier 9:11

In general, traveling to a competition, making sure you're prepared as far as hydration, electrolyte, making sure food is going to be available to you when you get there, or bring it with you, making sure that you know the schedule and that you've gotten there early enough in advance. I made a big mistake in my first master master's nationals that I actually needed to travel across the country to to California. I flew there and I didn't have any of those things lined up. I didn't realize that the airport was far enough away from the hotel in California traffic that it would take me a couple hours to drive there. And my nutrition and my hydration were completely messed up, and and also I was competing the next day, and I bombed out of that competition. And so that was a big learning experience for me. Um, so I'm really I really try to pay attention to you know how far am I gonna travel, and that'll determine how many days in advance I will get to a competition.

Miriam Lawrence 10:14

So if you were doing that competition again now, would you just have scheduled yourself to get there a day earlier than you did? Is that what you're basically?

Jennifer Perrier 10:21

I would I would get there two days in advance. Two days and for any like international travel to like Europe or something like that, I'll get there three days at least in advance, and maybe even four. So it's right.

Miriam Lawrence 10:32

Well then adjusting to the time change is a huge thing, I find, as well, and getting on the right, yeah, your circadian rhythms. Exactly. Yeah. Um so what are some of the competitions that you've done that you can think of that have really meant a lot to you? Are there any that were really significant?

Jennifer Perrier 10:51

They're the world championship is super fun to go to. It's just that next level of competition. And you start seeing people from completely different countries that you only get to see at these particular places. And it's just so fun to give them a hug and you know, see how they're doing. The two world championships that I'm thinking of the most are the one in Montreal and then the one I went to in Finland. And in both of those, I won the bronze medal, which meant a lot to me from a hard work perspective. But also it's I don't know how to describe it really. It's just like I don't I wouldn't want to say you feel like you've arrived, but you feel like you did a bigger thing, if that makes sense.

Miriam Lawrence 11:35

Um Yeah, no, it and in Olympic lifting, there's not that many pathways for competition. Whereas the power lifting, we have all these different federations. So, but you know, it you're really going up against most of the people in the world in what you're doing. That's true. And that's gotta feel really amazing.

Jennifer Perrier 11:53

So um, and you don't you don't know who's gonna have traveled well, you don't know who might have had to stay home. I at one point somebody didn't actually make weight, which was terrible. Um, I was heartbroken for them. Um, so yeah, so it's uh it's there's a lot of pressure, but it's also like I said, it's it's so much fun. And also I sometimes I think about the there's a quote on the wall of a tenant stadium. Well, I think it's in New York, it's the one where Billy Jean King says pressure is a privilege. And I never really understood what that meant until I was going to events of this caliber. And I thought, you know what, pressure is a privilege, and and I want that pressure. I I enjoy that, you know, the excitement, the adrenaline, the buildup, you know, the planning, all that kind of stuff. Um, just getting ready for it is really fun, you know, making sure your technique is refined, making sure you've done enough strength work, enough recovery work, going to see the chiropractor, you know, all that kind of stuff.

Miriam Lawrence 12:51

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it really is a privilege. And and at the you know, the day you get you get there and you get on the platform, like you've like, I've done everything I could do. And I'm ready. And if you don't feel ready, that's you know, that's a bummer. Hopefully you feel ready.

Jennifer Perrier 13:05

I I had an athlete at this recent nationals ask me, she's walking literally out for her first attempt, and she goes, Do you feel like you're gonna throw up when you are doing this? And I said, Look at me. I said, if I don't feel like I'm gonna throw up, then I'm gonna go home because I'm I might as well not bother because that means I'm not ready, right? I mean, there's always the nerves, the excitement, but you just learn how to channel it.

Miriam Lawrence 13:29

You learn how to how to make that your home, right? Well, speak to that a little bit, because that's a really important point, I think, and and something that folks struggle with a lot. And you're a coach as well as an athlete. Um and I, you know, there's all kinds of things about how to deal with anxiety. Um, but in in Olympic lifting, for those who haven't done it, I haven't done it myself, but I know a little bit about it. And nerves in Olympic lifting is a whole different thing from nerves and powerlifting because you're doing a lot of technique work, is balance involved? Like it, you know, having a bad case of nerves can really screw you off in a way that it won't necessarily.

Jennifer Perrier 14:06

So when you're in training, you work on a lot of cues and a lot of technical pieces and different things that you have to tell yourself about how the lift should be performed. But when you get to the competition platform, I kind of jokingly say you need to press a button on your nose and a snatch comes out, right? I mean, you it needs to be automatic and you have to practice that. And so you don't just, you know, show up at the world championships as your first competition, right? You have to practice competing. And so that like we do things in weightlifting, like have Singlet Saturday, we have mock competitions, and then we have a lot of local competitions, and I recommend, you know, if people think they're going to want to compete in weightlifting at all, to go to their first competition relatively early and just decide, you know, did I like doing this? I I really think people need to I don't want to say subject themselves to that situation, but kind of, yeah. I mean, they need to feel what that feels like and see how their body responds. There have been a couple times when my central nervous system wanted no part of it, and I bombed out of those two competitions. And I've learned since that there's certain, you know, predispositions that I have towards my central nervous system kind of getting a little overly amped. And so I've learned for me, there's certain things I need to work on breathing-wise and other other, you know, things I need to do to get in the right space so that I can compete well or dial down when I'm overly amped. Like for instance, at the nationals that I just came back from, I had to immediately turn around after I competed and coach an athlete in her first national master's meet, right? And so I actually did the 90-90 lying down on the floor with my feet up on the chair, breathing for three minutes in the middle of the warm-up area after I finished competing, so I could turn around and be a coach, right? Because I was so amped from competing. And if I hadn't dialed myself back, I would not have been able to think properly to count her attempt and to also keep her calm. You just do what you gotta do to make it work.

Miriam Lawrence 16:21

So yeah, so I guess it sounds like really working on, you know, learning how your nervous system works and what you respond to and uh being able to identify when it's potent potentially overcharged. Exactly.

Jennifer Perrier 16:33

Yeah, I know I tend to get overcharged pretty easily. And so I have to, you know, not drink too much caffeine, all the all the things I have to watch out for.

Miriam Lawrence 16:41

So how does being overcharged manifest for you on the platform? So if if if you're in that state, is it are you jittery when you say you're overcharged?

Jennifer Perrier 16:49

I would be I would be jittery. Um, I wouldn't be able to focus. Um, I've actually discovered recently that I actually need more warm-up attempts in the back in the warm-up area before I take my first lift. And that's a combination of being you know older and having osteoarthritis in my hips and just you know, joints needing more time to get warmed up. But by doing that, also that helps me be calmer. And also recently started having newer athletes take their their opener in the back before I send them out on the platform for their opener, and they're like, Oh, I just did this here. Now I'm just gonna show people what I did. And I I hadn't done that a lot, but lately with this newest crop of lifters that I have, I've been doing that. And in fact, at this National Masters, I did it to myself too. I was like, first of a practice what we preach here, and that actually worked pretty well for me. I felt much more warmed up and more at at ease when I went out on the platform.

Miriam Lawrence 17:52

That's great, great advice for all the people that lift competitively and just in general, too. I think for anyone who's nervous, you know, speaking of it.

Jennifer Perrier 17:59

So I don't know if that's yeah, I don't know if that's as much of a thing in powerlifting. You might take, you know, a a lift that's a little bit less. And I I used to actually take one or two kilos less on the snatch and then go out and and take that lift, but for some reason, now more warm-up is necessary for me. And that's fine just to keep discovering what keeps you going and keeps you successful, right?

Miriam Lawrence 18:22

So yeah, well, I think that's the key is that everyone's different, and you know, figuring out what makes you tick, what you know gets you amped, what calms you down, and being okay with doing whatever that is. You know, if you have to lie down and yeah do a 90-90 breathing exercise for three minutes and do it, you know.

Jennifer Perrier 18:37

And and part of it also is having a com certain comfort level with yourself. Like you have to realize that you're the only you there is on the earth. And so, like, maybe 90-90 breathing works for me, but maybe it flat out doesn't work for you or or someone else. And so you have to be okay with what it is that works for you.

Miriam Lawrence 18:58

Absolutely. I don't know how Olympic lifters work at competitions in powerlifting. A lot of people have earbuds in, they're listening to music or headphones. I used to do that and I've sort of stopped doing that for whatever reason. When I train, I it's I train alone, I have music in my head most of the time. But when I'm at a competition, I really want to kind of know what's going on around me. I'm interacting with people, I'm watching other like I that's how I get in a zone. It's it's odd, but some people just need to be alone in a corner with their headphones, don't talk to anyone, don't you know, and then they go do their thing, and everyone's different. So just do your thing. Well, speaking of everyone being different, you've had a very different experience over the last little while. You came down with appendicitis. Was it last week?

Jennifer Perrier 19:39

I really did. June? June, the last week of June was not pretty. You have to understand that I've had a history of irritable bowel syndrome, which with my nutritionist, we've solved a ton of those problems. But if I get like a stomach ache or digestive pain, it was kind of par for the course of my life, right? So last week of June, I had some achiness, you know, like okay, I must have eaten something wrong. I have celiac disease, so uh maybe I got some gluten somewhere. And then Friday rolls around. And I go to the gym in the morning and I coach some people, and I um did an a consultation on a new athlete, and I just really was not feeling great at all. And this athlete later, who has now been my athlete for you know this the whole time since then, was like, Yeah, you know, you didn't look the way you sounded on the phone. And I was like, Yeah, there are problems. And so I went to the clinic just to get checked. I I I didn't think it was severe enough to go to the ER at that point. I have a stomachache, right? So I go in and they do the white blood count test, and they're like, oh, this is kind of high, let's go get a scan. And so I ended up getting a CT scan, and they're like, Oh, you're gonna get your results in you know 24 to 48 hours. And I was like, okay, great. I guess I'll just lay on the couch until you tell me what to do next. So the next morning I go to the people at the gym, and I'm like, I really still don't feel good. I'm gonna go home and put a heating pad on my tummy. I'm sitting on the couch for I don't know, an hour or something, and then I stood up. And that was the end of that. It was probably rupturing over the last 24 hours or something, but I I couldn't stand up. So I went to the ER, had a CT scan, and I was like, Yeah, you're a phonice ruptured lady. And I was like, okay, noted. So but then they couldn't actually get me into surgery until the next day because we were in the main Vanderbilt emergency room. And so, you know, people getting shot and whatnot sort of take precedence over the lady that they stabilized who has a ruptured appendix. I really feel like being strong, you know, helped me through that whole situation because I I feel like strong people are harder to kill. And and literally they did the surgery and like two hours later they sent me home. They're like, if you can eat, you can go home. And I'm like, Bring on the food, please. Because I hadn't eaten anything since like Friday morning. morning, right? So at this point it's like Sunday at lunchtime.

Miriam Lawrence 22:02

I think I remember you writing on social media that you found yourself next to a an older woman who had broken her hip. Um and that that was a kind of a profound realization or moment for you it r in regards to sort of how your strength was helping you cope with yes it was actually um I was laying there in my bed next to the window and this woman had broken her hip and um she honestly sounded really pitiful and it made me really sad.

Jennifer Perrier 22:36

Um and I was praying for her in my head I was like gosh you know the things that I'm doing for my own strength and for my athletes can continue to help even more people you know because breaking your hip is like one of the biggest causes of pretty soon dying thereafter.

Miriam Lawrence 22:52

No for women yeah it is a lot of people just never leave the hospital. And you know obviously the older you are the more that's the case but it becomes very difficult to get independent again. And exactly so the kind of lifting that you're doing is superb for bone density. I mean it's not the only thing there are obviously other factors but it's enormously important.

Jennifer Perrier 23:14

That's why that's partly why on the team that I'm building I have Olympic weightlifters but I also have general strength and I have a certain component of my general strength lifter called the Bone Density Club. And in fact I'm wearing my bone density club t-shirt here my little pirate cat. And I've got several lifters who are really excelling at even far more than I kind of initially expected partially because I had no idea what to really expect. But they're really doing amazing at the strength training that they're able to do.

Miriam Lawrence 23:47

So they're just doing general strength training not specifically for Olympic lifting competition correct.

Jennifer Perrier 23:52

Yeah that's great. I I I'm not just an Olympic weightlifting coach which is what I thought I would be when I started my team but I just I enjoy these people at least as much maybe more sometimes than the Olympic weightlifters. Well it's a whole different world right it's they're so excited about their results too it's amazing.

Miriam Lawrence 24:10

Yeah. Well it's interesting I just um I actually just interviewed a personal trainer recently and we were talking about the fact that more clients are now coming to training with the idea that they want to improve their bone density specifically. Like that that message has started to really get out there I think probably because of us Gen X women, you know we're like Oh yeah. Yeah we we don't sit we don't sit down and let stuff happen. Right.

Jennifer Perrier 24:34

And so exactly well so in Olympic weightlifting we do a lot of um basically an Olympic lift is a jump and a catch, right? And so we want to have impact to create bone density right but if we have general strength athletes in their programs I also have them jump in some capacity. And a lot of times it's not a box jump. I'll literally have them do like pogos around a line or front and back or box like in a square. Everybody can work on their bone density in some capacity.

Miriam Lawrence 25:04

So right well and on top of that there's the whole power aspect. So you're really when you do that you're helping people with the the you know fast twitch muscles and power and and that's a big piece of of the problem with pe people as they age is that's the muscle that degrades quickly. So you know you need those muscles to be able to live and go up and down the stairs.

Jennifer Perrier 25:24

I do exactly I do also have balance work that I have them do. So we use a balance pad we have them you know stand on one leg on a balance pad, do toe taps, all that kind of stuff. And several several of them have talked to me about incidents where they have you know almost fallen but didn't because they were easily able to catch themselves and I thought well that's awesome.

Miriam Lawrence 25:45

I love that. I would love to keep talking about this and we will but I really wanted to talk about what happened to you after that surgery. Because you had the your core muscles cut through with abdominal surgery.

Jennifer Perrier 25:58

So the appendectomy that I had was a laparoscopy type so smaller holes not the big cut that they used to do for appendectomy but uh because of the ruptured appendix my core like checked out of the building like you know how the the corset muscle called the transverse abdominis mine like decided that it didn't exist anymore. And so I actually had to do specific exercises to really focus on waking my core back up. Um so that was really interesting and in fact my chiropractor actually had to put a tens unit on my lower core a couple times just to tell those muscles that you're good you can wake up it's fine. When you sort of realized that that needed to happen with I had previously done some core work with a pelvic floor physical therapist so I leaned back on a lot of those exercises especially dead bugs, bird dogs, you know, all those kinds of things where you're really asking your deep core to wake up help me come back on board. And it was slow though I had a couple friends that were like well you're not going to get back into lifting right away I'm like I can't walk to the mailbox what are you talking about and in fact I'll be honest uh about two weeks after my appendectomy I kind of went into some clinical depression to some degree because if you go from you know pretty active going outside doing all the things to just being smashed flat on your back um the I mean the only thing I was doing I would after a week of you know recovery I would go in and coach for like two hours and then I would come home and I would just collapse and I would just be you know in the bed or on the couch for hours and hours. Finally my therapist and my chiropractor was like you you need to just get up and and walk to the mailbox or walk to the end of the street and just add a little bit. It was hard. It was hard to go from you know very active to just not being able to do things.

Miriam Lawrence 28:00

I have to say for many for for you it might have seemed like forever but from where I sit you signed up to do the Howard Cohen American Masters had your appendectomy in June and gave off basically six months to get ready for a big I I needed a goal.

Jennifer Perrier 28:19

I needed something to light my fire to help me even want to try to train I think the first time I went back in the gym I did like five air squats and like 20 knee push-ups and some very basic balance work and I was like I'm done peace out and so then I signed up for the competition and I was like wait the what what have I done? What do I even think I'm doing but I needed something to encourage myself and also maybe to inspire other people. I I try to lead my team by example. I don't want to be someone who sits over here and says oh you guys do this stuff and not be willing to do it myself. So you knew your athletes would be watching and yeah I knew they would be I I'm assuming you had quite a bit of pain through all of this was it was painful yeah um what they don't tell you about your appendix is the first few weeks after you have your appendix out going from flat to like 30 degrees is absolutely excruciating. It feels like somebody has stabbed you every time and so like once you get past that part of sitting up it's not terrible right but just that part every time you're like so I I just kind of slowly got better and let myself heal which was hard. I went to the chiropractor one day and I said I'm just getting a little itchy to feel better and do more and she goes that's exactly what I wanted to hear because if you weren't saying that then I would be checking your body and seeing if there was something else wrong. And so that actually made me feel better. I was starting to get itchy to do more and she said that's a very good sign. So lean into that but don't you know constantly overdo and so my whole job was to monitor my energy level and figure out what was the right amount of time to spend on things and I took so many naps every single day. I finally got it down to one but I didn't give give up that nap for a long time it was like oh my goodness every day I need a nap.

Miriam Lawrence 30:23

Well you know we gotta remember that's when our bodies actually repair need sleep for recovery in between training sessions. She's dead so she's not sleeping very well right now. I hear that show me a menopause woman who sleeps well and I'll be like whoa unicorn Exactly indeed um so that uh appendix was just one of a bunch of stuff that happened to you last year.

Jennifer Perrier 30:47

I know you you lost your beloved cat tricky at the beginning of the year that was the yeah the the year started and my cat died and she was you know the mascot for for my team she didn't you know go to the gym but she was she's not my logo she's she was you know a whole thing and so um my cat died and then we actually got two cats a few months later from the rescue and they're they're wonderful they don't take the place of the original cat but they have their own silliness and charms and they they help me a lot. But then you know I'm preparing to go to the Howard Cohen everything is looking good my lips are coming along I thought you know why don't I try for a world qualifying total right and then those jerks they they raised the total by four kilos. You know I think I'm ready I can I can you know hit this qualifying total on my openers and then we'll just go for some gravy on some extras. And then they raised the qualifying total by four kilos and I was like okay I'll get in on my seconds and so that's what I worked on. But as I was preparing for that meet three weeks before it we had a car accident someone decided to pull in front of my husband as we were going through his intersections and it total the car my central nervous system was just janked for a week I I I didn't train for that whole week all I did was be the chiropractor work on calming down but I did something different I would watch videos of good lifts of myself and I would tell myself that's me that's how I do this. Now I know a lot of people talk about doing first person visualization and that works for a lot of people to do third person visualization. I watch myself like I'm a video camera and I look at myself and I find the the best quality of lifts that I want to look at and I just watch them every day and I tell myself that's how I do this thing. That's me that's what I do and I create a whole feeling about it. And people like listen to me sometimes when I they're like what do you tell yourself before you go out for your opening snatch and I say snatch is a feeling and they're like what don't you say like do this and do that. I'm like no snatch is a feeling of being tight and fast and dynamic. And I I just tell myself do the snatch feeling and thinking about those concepts while I couldn't train really helped me. And in fact that learning helped me with one of my athletes who had a slight tweak in her back right before this past nationals and I sent her her best videos and I said I know you can't train for the next couple days but you're gonna watch these videos and you're gonna tell yourself that's me that's how I do this thing. I'm not gonna train you know stretch mobility watch these videos and tell yourself this is you this is how I do this thing you know you can do this whenever you need to do it on the platform. And she also went six for six at Nationals this year. So that was exciting.

Miriam Lawrence 33:48

I really relate to this I I haven't heard anyone else sort of talk about it that way but I do the same thing. I I watch videos of myself and often you know especially the opener is not that far off what I theoretically triple your opener powerlifting. And even my top lift I mean I'm I'm hopefully going to go higher but it's not that much higher than the top lift that I did last time. It's like you can do this. If you didn't last year you can do this what does it feel like I think like you said earlier by the time it's a platform it should be automatic. That's not the time to be thinking about stuff. That's it needs to be muscle memory it needs to be completely in your bones you've done it a thousand times you're gonna do the same thing again. And I love that feeling I love that I feel the same positive feeling deletive feeling of like I'm getting better at those lifts as time goes on because I'm I understand that feeling and I didn't my body didn't have it before and I couldn't do them consistently every time because of that. I love watching your videos on your you your commentary some of your commentary is also it really is a learning process and we have a lot less technique in powerlifting than in Olympic lifting but there's still technique involved in there's kind of you know that out yeah yeah like you said what does it feel like in your body and when you really get that you know that takes time so for newer competitors that may not resonate but if you've been doing it a while it starts to I think so it must have felt amazing but maybe it didn't I don't know but I would think it felt amazing to get on that platform in December having been it was really fun to get back on the platform and go there and take several lifters with me.

Jennifer Perrier 35:34

Um what's frustrating to me sometimes but I I'm trying to just become this latest iteration of myself right I mean the weight classes in weightlifting have changed first of all they've gone down from 10 weight classes to eight so that means there's more competitors in each weight class. And so I could you know go six for six come back from not dying but also come in fifth place while qualifying for the world championship you know and so that like sort of dichotomy in my brain of I'm currently not a podium contender. I don't know if I ever will be again I would love to be a podium contender again but I'm not currently sure what that will take because I'm in a stacked weight class I you know added five kilos to my total I was against some different competitors at nationals and I still came in fifth place. And I was like okay well I'm just gonna focus on what I can do right now and you know adding to my total being the best I can be being a good example to my athletes and not being a fuss pot if I don't get on the podium. So I mean it it's difficult if you're used to going to a competition and you know thinking oh I've got a shot here and then you go and you're like I have a shot at you know getting fifth place over these other people you're kind of like that is exciting well at this point it's gonna have to be right because I don't know what it's gonna take to some degree to you know reach some of the levels that I had been in in the past. And and maybe that's not a requirement maybe it's just a requirement to go and have fun and do the best I can do for now. So that's an interesting thing I'm up against right now.

Miriam Lawrence 37:22

Yeah and I know that you talk a lot about your critical mind you talk a lot about um limiting beliefs and trying to for sure get rid of your limiting beliefs um so you know where do these voices typically show up for you and how how have you been approaching dealing with them?

Jennifer Perrier 37:41

It's a day-to-day thing but when I first started coming back from the appendectomy I made a choice you know not to wear knee sleeves in training anymore to not wear a belt while I was training to focus on really good movement patterns creating a much stronger core than I had before um while also respecting the fact that I have you know hip osteoarthritis and then in fact I'm gonna come up on another PRP injection in my hip in a couple weeks to try to maintain the cartilage that I have. But in coming back I realized that I had to just let go of uh of anything that was limiting my mind and then I realized that if I could qualify for the world championship six months after well less than six months really after you know almost dying then that maybe what I believed in general needed to be altered. And so I just thought you know I've just got to live a different way just let go of some of these things that I was holding on to. Like in the past it would always be like well if I get to this percentage of a list then I've got to wear my belt or you know I can only do this particular thing this way and now my training actually looks a bit different than it did five or ten years ago. I do a lot more hybrid training I do a lot more bodybuilding than I ever did and it seems to be working okay and keeping me healthier so I'm actually working in some of the learnings that I've found into some of the training programs that I write for my athletes.

Miriam Lawrence 39:21

How did you come to make those changes in your training? What caused that change to happen? Was that you your decision?

Jennifer Perrier 39:29

Well called pain so pain is such a motivator isn't it about a year ago I thought I was going to pull out of that nationals because my lower back and my hip were really bothering me. And I went to see a physical therapist at that point and she helped me get to the point where I could compete in that nationals but I made a decision now I have a different remote coach and now that I'm done with nationals I'm actually doing a block of just straight up bodybuilding. Okay which which includes you know front squats and different things like that. It's not like I'm not touching a barbell but for a few weeks I won't do snatch and clean and jerk and I'll you know give my joints a little bit of a break but also I do you know a fair amount of hypertrophy type work you know just build muscles building muscles around the joints my chiropractor basically said the better you can build your muscles around your hips the longer it will take for you to get to the point where you need a hip replacement. And so and the ortho says the same thing and then layering on a PRP shot on top of that you know will help also but the the mental component of it is you know I need to believe that the things I'm doing are going to work for me but also you know use the evidence that I see. Do I feel better? Like after the appendectomy when I started coming back I told myself I'm only going to train things that are sustainable to me. If it doesn't feel good if it's putting me in a pain cave all the time then I need to change it. And so that's why I'm like rotating through different training blocks different stretches and do a lot more walking than I had been doing. I didn't realize that I because of the pain you know early in 2025 that I hadn't been walking nearly as much which is you know as we know is not really good for menopausal women you really need to you just be active in general besides your sport and so adding all these things together in some sense I feel a lot better than I did a year ago.

Miriam Lawrence 41:38

Yeah so yeah it sounds like sort of proving to yourself physically that you can and making yourself stronger is it's almost like a a loop back and forth between the confidence and the sort of shutting up that critic in your in your head.

Jennifer Perrier 41:53

Yeah so the the critic makes you feel like at least makes me feel like I should do what these other women are doing like oh I see this woman training Olympic style weightlifting programming four times a week. Well I my body literally cannot do that. It will malfunction and so I have to trust that what feels good to me and is is creating results is the right path for me and is potentially the right path for some of my athletes on my team depending on you know how I choose to program for them.

Miriam Lawrence 42:30

Do you train your athletes differently from each other depending on sort of how they present and what they seem to respond to?

Jennifer Perrier 42:39

Or is it to some degree yes like some of my some of my more masters lifters have different percentages on their squats or different styles of squats I have uh at least one lifter actually maybe two that they predominantly end up with front squats and not back squats even though back squats is sort of a staple of Olympic weightlifting um as long as they're squatting in some capacity then to me that's fine.

Miriam Lawrence 43:08

And that's because they have limitations or it causes them pain or problems.

Jennifer Perrier 43:12

Like back pain or or problems or hip pain.

Miriam Lawrence 43:16

Yeah so you're practicing what you preach basically with your own with yourself. Yeah and with your athletes right well I find it comforting hearing that other women like you have the critic and have the limiting beliefs and struggle with that because you know we're all on social media and you're great about sharing that and you know everyone follow Jennifer we'll talk about how you follow her later but you're so transparent.

Jennifer Perrier 43:41

Um thank you I mean I'm not an influencer I am not you influenced me oh well I mean but not in like a you know I don't know a TikTok influencer I'm not an influencer right I mean I I just want to be The best version of me that I possibly can be. And sometimes I'll just be like, you know, this was a shit show and I don't want to do it again. You know, and I'll I'll I'll be honest, you know, this thing didn't work or or this surprised me. This was a pleasant surprise to me of, you know, something that did work. Yeah.

Miriam Lawrence 44:18

I feel like I I don't I'd love to hear more about what you love about Masters Lifting. I love the support. I love the community. I feel like most of us have gotten to the point in our lives where we are more transparent. I mean, not that we don't want to impress people. Everyone wants to do a good job or you know be amazing, right? But I can only speak for myself. I'm pretty transparent. I think you're really transparent. I think a lot of the other masters women that I follow are as well. I feel like we're it helps, it helps to hear about each other's struggles and that we share many of the same struggles. Yeah.

Jennifer Perrier 44:52

And yeah, I love the masters community because um there's just a common bond. Even even, you know, a lot of the ladies, but also even the men in the group. Like I I love, you know, hanging out with some of my fellow weightlifting referees. Um, it's just feels good to go back and see people. Um, even if you feel like you're not lifting your best, or there was, like I said, there was that dichotomy of okay, I did six for six, I qualified for the world championships, I actually added five kilos to that qualifying total, and that felt great. But also I had this part of me that was like, but it's only this many kilos, right? And I can't tell you how many people at Nationals were like, oh my gosh, it was so good to see you. I'm so proud of you. I I loved how you did, your attitude was great, and and just I don't know, it just helped me feel better about myself. Like, I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Cool Runnings, but the when the the John Candy, John Candy character talks about having the gold medal, and he tells the the head guy on the Bobsled team, if you aren't enough without the gold medal, you'll never be enough with it. And so I tell myself, you know, that there may be you know another podium down the road for me or whatever, but right now I want to be enough without it. I want to do my best, I want to have my best influence with what I'm doing now. And, you know, if I get strong enough to get another medal, then great. If not, then I guess that'll have to be okay because I'm having a good time lifting with my friends and and jokingly say I'm creating an army of strong people that are harder to kill, you know. My business coach was like, What's your elevator pitch? I'm like, uh, create a strong army of people. And she's like, That's not an elevator pitch.

Miriam Lawrence 46:48

Like, I think it is. I was gonna say, I mean, that's a wonderful thing that you've got, you know, not that it's gonna comfort you uh as an athlete. Like I get you're an athlete first.

Jennifer Perrier 47:01

Um I'm competitive, right? I I I I have a competitive mindset. Like I want to go out there, I want to eat kilos, you know, I want to put up put on some good weight. I want I want the technique to look awesome too. Like I not only do I want to put up good kilos, I want to look good doing it, right?

Miriam Lawrence 47:15

So sure. No, I mean I and I totally get that, but it's amazing that you have this also this coaching business and you are affecting all of these people's lives, you know, and even if you had to stop lifting tomorrow yourself for whatever reason, I hope that doesn't happen and you're lifting until you're 90. But right you have that angle and and the refereeing and the meet directing. And so you're you're you know keeping your fingers, many fingers in the pie, so to speak of that world.

Jennifer Perrier 47:41

I I do really love to be a meet director. I I'm obsessed about the details. I invite everyone, I tell everybody, you know, I don't care if it's your first meet or whatever, just come on, we'll help you figure it out. I hook up people with platform coaches if they don't have one. I just love to run a good, high-quality local meet so people can experience what is it like to go out there and test yourself.

Miriam Lawrence 48:05

Well, after a decade of doing this, how do you feel if at all it's changed you? What do you know about yourself that you didn't know when you started, or what do you feel is different about you than when you started? Okay.

Jennifer Perrier 48:16

I think um coaching has actually changed me more than competing. I am much more confident, I'm much more likely to speak my mind, I'm much more likely to stand my ground. Um, I've had a couple lifters on my team that have actually helped me become this person because they would keep asking me questions, and at first, you know, I would be very taken aback, like, don't you trust me? I have these coaching credentials and all set up stuff. But that was their learning process, right? And I actually had to learn, I actually read a book called Conscious Coaching. In that book, I learned all kinds of coaching styles, and one of them is athletes who ask you a million questions. And once I got through my first two athletes that would ask me a million questions, I became much more confident in myself because first of all, I had to be like, Do I really believe this thing that I'm telling them? And the more I thought about it, the more I thought, yes, I do. And so I was able to start learning how to communicate better. So I I feel like coaching has changed with me a little bit more than competing, maybe, but I love competing. It's it's just super fun. I I just love to go out there um and see what I can do.

Miriam Lawrence 49:26

And I didn't even mean necessarily the competing part of it, I just meant the training part of it. There's just so many ways that for me, at least getting stronger has been, you know, transformative. The competition is almost beside the point. Those are just like milestones for me to meet.

Jennifer Perrier 49:43

This is gonna sound ridiculous, but I've started doing what my my headspace app calls befriending my body, if that makes any kind of sense at all. So I grew up in a world where I was a gymnast, I had to look a certain way, and then you know we all read Shape magazine, and we were all supposed to be XYZ number of pounds for however much inches we were over five feet tall. And hello, you know, that wasn't happening. So and then I I thought I was gonna be a model, and then they were like, you need to lose 20 pounds. I'm like, from where? You know, it was like a whole mess, right? And so, like, I grew up with all these different thoughts about how my body should be and what I should look like, and now in my 50s, I I'm kind of I'm I'm kind of proud that I'm making friends with my own self. And people would say, you know, don't be so hard on yourself, but they never tell me what to do instead, right? And so now I'm practicing a lot more, you know, self-compassion, you know, I'm trying to be my own cheerleader. And I never did that before. It was always like you beat yourself into submission, kind of. That's how a lot of Gen X was kind of brought up to do, or in sports, or you know, even with food, right? And all that kind of stuff. And so now I'm really leaning into, you know, you did a good job today, Jennifer. Or it's very foreign to me. And I think it's sometimes I laugh at myself. I'm like, that's hilarious. But I'm like, no, that's how you should be. You should be nice to yourself. But no one ever told me. They're like, don't be so hard on yourself.

Miriam Lawrence 51:15

I'm like, but they never said what to do instead, right? And you're like, uh the classic Gen X joke is you know, the parents threatening to beat you all my time. So Right, exactly. That wasn't my personal experience, but I mean that's the joke.

Jennifer Perrier 51:32

Yeah, that's the whole thing, right?

Miriam Lawrence 51:34

Yeah, being compassionate to yourself was not exactly what we were raised. That was not how we were raised for sure. Yeah. So has strength training helped you to do that?

Jennifer Perrier 51:45

Yeah, actually. I like how it helps me feel a certain control over things. I mean, we all have various amounts of anxiety, and for me, if I can exert control over a barbell, it helps me feel like I have a certain amount of control over the rest of my life. Whether I do or not, is sort of irrelevant. It's just the the good brain chemicals and all the things that happen when you lift weights and your body composition and your whole body well-being, right?

Miriam Lawrence 52:16

If a person listening to this is interested in getting into Olympic lifting specifically, you know, they've been strength training and they they want to try it. How does one go about A, doing that to begin with, like just getting into the sport? And B, what if you're already doing the sport and you haven't been competing and you want to start competing? How does that work? Or what would one do?

Jennifer Perrier 52:36

So it depends on how old you are as far as federations are concerned. Like there's USA weightlifting for all ages, and then there's USA Master's Weightlifting, which basically starts at age 30. So you can look on both of their websites. Um USA Weightlifting has a lot of local meets, and in fact, this year I'm running two fairly large local competitions in Tennessee. If you're in Tennessee, you can definitely look me up and uh go to my website um where I have my training programs, but also the link to the two competitions. Um but you would start at a local competition, is where like bottom line, that's where you would start competing. Um if you need a coach, the USA weightlifting site has a list of coaches. Um but a lot of times um there are groups on Facebook and and places to look for coaches. Um like I said, if you're in Tennessee, feel free to look me up. Um I do resonate with more female masters lifters. My team is 75% women, 25% men. But if you're, you know, of different age groups, I have different other coaches I can hook you up with.

Miriam Lawrence 53:45

Do you do any remote coaching? I know you used to. I used to see you doing that, but it doesn't look like you haven't.

Jennifer Perrier 54:02

I have two lifters who have moved out of state, but they've stayed with me. Like I don't see them in person at all anymore. I have lifters in Alabama and Kentucky that drive to see me, you know, once a month, once every two weeks, whatever it's gonna be. I have people who live across town who, for whatever reason, you know, it's a 45-minute drive. They can't make that for all the group coaching. So I just see them once a week, but then they send me videos. So I do a fair amount of video reviews, but I call those my hybrid lifters, like they train either in their house or at a local gym near to their house, and then they come to see me periodically. So that's kind of the extent of my remote coaching. I realized that I don't resonate as well with people that I haven't known or I don't get to see in person.

Miriam Lawrence 54:49

A remote coach is common in in Olympic lifting or is that less very common.

Jennifer Perrier 54:53

It is very common. I myself have a remote coach, but most of it is just for the programming.

Miriam Lawrence 54:58

What would you recommend as the credentials to look for, or if someone's seeking a coach and they haven't really worked with one before in in this sport, how would they identify somebody?

Jennifer Perrier 55:10

The the first credential that you get is USA weightlifting level one certification. And then they've got the advanced sport performance, which is basically level two. You also see people with like a catalyst athletic certification, that's also a good one. You really I I think people really need to interview the coach and see if you resonate well with them. Um, there are people that you know have called me and we just didn't hit it off for whatever reason. The athlete and I can usually tell by just talking whether we're gonna get along before I have them come in for a consultation. So I would say do a Google search in your area or on the USA weightlifting site and see do they seem approachable on their social media make sense, all that kind of stuff.

Miriam Lawrence 55:56

Do you see a lot of um athletes that have not done this style of lifting before come to the sport uh uh in their older years, you know, stay in 50s, uh 60s, and start. I know it's hard on the it's hard on the joints, or it can be.

Jennifer Perrier 56:14

If people come to me at those ages, I do start them very slowly. I took one athlete to the Arnold Sports Festival who was in his 60s, and we literally started him out with air squad. But yeah, I don't see a lot of people in their 50s and 60s coming to this sport. Anybody who is in that age group has typically been doing CrossFit or general strength training first before they start Olympic style weightlifting.

Miriam Lawrence 56:42

So they have some experience with the lifts at least, even if they haven't done exclusively Olympic lifting.

Jennifer Perrier 56:46

Well, that's my experience. Yeah, I don't I haven't started anybody from scratch except for just that one lifter in his 60s who was a parent of one of my lifters.

Miriam Lawrence 56:56

Right. So But you do the general strength training as well, and of course, I'm sure you agree that is something that everyone should be doing.

Jennifer Perrier 57:05

Oh, everyone should be, yes, for sure. I mean, what do you want? People are like, well, I don't have to squat. I'm like, so you get off of the toilet. How exactly? Please explain.

Miriam Lawrence 57:16

Yeah. So where can people find you? Because I want them to find you for sure. I would love for them to find me.

Jennifer Perrier 57:22

Um, my website is jenniferparrier.com. So my name. My Instagram is jp.weightlifting. And also my personal Instagram if you would like to follow my very transparent and sometimes having curse words. Uh it's at kitty parrier, um my friend's daughter. Uh called me Hello Kitty for a long time. And then um on Facebook, JP Weightlifting.

Miriam Lawrence 57:51

As we're wrapping up, I I'd love to know what are your goals. You are gonna be going to Master's Worlds. When is that? I am that is in Greece in the middle of September. Oh, how exciting. We're in Greece.

Jennifer Perrier 58:01

Yeah, it is in Athens because I have not been to Greece before, and so I'd love to see, you know, the Parthenon, the Acropolis, all that kind of neat stuff, and maybe spend some time at the beach because it looks like you know, these places that we're going are not far from the beach. So I'd like to do a little bit of that and various sightseeing. But um, yeah, I my goals right now, um, my next goal, I I just am trying to build things in blocks. So at some point between now and then I wanna, you know, test my total and see if I can add five kilos and then you know, maybe five more, but uh that may be a big ask. I don't know. You know, I'm gonna have a PRP shot in my hip in a couple weeks and just to make sure that my cartilage is doing great.

Miriam Lawrence 58:49

Um and I'm just gonna keep rolling. So before we wrap it up, I'm trying to ask all of my lifter guests this question because I've kind of built a playlist. What's your hype song? Well, if you were gonna go for a big a big clean and jerk PR. Well, okay.

Jennifer Perrier 59:05

So I always kind of lean back on Lincoln Park, right? You can make an entire playlist off of Lincoln Park, right? But also, um I oddly there are some instrumental songs that are kind of EDM, but they're almost like classical music at the same time. I like that a lot.

Miriam Lawrence 59:24

Is there one Lincoln one Lincoln Park song that you fall back on?

Jennifer Perrier 59:29

Um the song Burn It Down, that one.

Miriam Lawrence 59:32

Okay. It's so funny. My music changes completely during depending on what I'm doing in my training in the workout. So I listen to a ton of house music, not the old school stuff, there's like new stuff. I I got into it. It's very chaotic. That's my life when I'm doing the hypertrophy work and the bodybuilding style. It's like 20 reps of something. That's my my jam.

Jennifer Perrier 59:53

20 reps is evil. Like anything past like 10, and I'm like, I I don't know how to count that high.

Miriam Lawrence 59:59

Well, thank you so much for being here. It's been really fun talking to you.

Jennifer Perrier 1:00:03

This has been a great experience. I I was a little nervous, but I also knew that this is something I needed to do. So like a next step for just becoming more comfortable with myself, right? I I've been forcing myself every Wednesday to like talk to the camera and just like put whatever I say out on Instagram one take Wednesday. So this is like my next step.

Miriam Lawrence 1:00:24

You inspire people, you know, like you never know who's watching, and then I I finally like start to find out who's watching and who's paying attention, and like it can surprise you. You're helping people when you share. So keep sharing. Thanks so much for listening to That Badass Broadcast. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you're subscribed wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find the show notes for this episode at thatbadassbroad.com forward slash podcast. And you can subscribe there for my writing on strength, training, and competing later in life. You can watch the full video of this episode on YouTube at That Badass Broad. And for clips and training, follow me on Instagram at Mearslam, M-I-R-S-L-A-M. Thanks again for being here and have a badass day.