EP#07- Women in The Church (feat. Katie Prejean)

In this episode Fr. Rob Galea and Danii Sullivan talk about the role of women in the church, from why women can’t be ordained Catholic priests to the role of women in the bible and the context in which scripture passages regarding women were written. 

Fr. Rob interviews Katie Prejean, international Catholic speaker, on the challenges of being a woman in the Catholic Church and the role women need to play within the church. The interview concludes with Katie giving practical advice on how women might be heard within the church. 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:05

Hey everybody, welcome to the Catholic influencers podcast. A Conversation to help Catholic influencers like you and me to go deeper and further in our influencing of the world for Jesus.

Speaker 2: 0:23

I'm your host, Father Rob Galea...

: 0:25

...and I'm your cohost Danny Sullivan. And we look forward to talking to you today about women in the church. Wow Danny, we're going to, we start talking about some serious stuff now. Yeah. All the other things that was just not serious: prayer, authenticity, no, they're important stuff, but I think it's more now topics are getting a bit difficult. I think we need to do a little bit more homework as we go along and we get to talk about women in the church and I think it's, God has a great call, an equal call on women in the church, but somehow, we've messed it up because somehow there are more women that attend our churches, but for some reason women tend to have less of a voice. I agree with that father Rob. Yeah. And so what can we do to raise up the voice of women? I have a great passion to raise women up, both in the arts and raise women's voice within the church. And I do all I can across Australia and even the United States to raise people, uh, women, because they, there's such a powerful voice a necessary voice, a s ide of God that has been somehow eliminated from the prophetic voice of the church, which is male dominated.

Speaker 3: 1:45

I'm curious to hear how you raise women up because I think there's quite a misconception that women can be raised up and when they're raised up, they take on a power of leadership and in the Catholic Church that's a priest, but we're not. Women are not called to be priest. Why?

Speaker 2: 1:58

Well, look, the way I do it is I think a lot of the voice that I have is with young people. I have a loud voice through music. I have a loud voice when it comes to evangelization. And so that's doesn't necessarily it is part of the priesthood, but it is not necessarily the sacramental priesthood. It's our responsibility as baptized people to go out and to proclaim the gospel. So a lot of the work that I do, the women, um, I raise up is, as musicians trying to get them on platforms, trying to get them into schools and trying to get young women in particular to catholic courage to speak out. But when it comes to priesthood, this is the women and priests, I think one of the things that the church understands is that the priest represents, represents Christ in a sacramental way. Okay. So we're all priests through baptism, but there's the sacramental priesthood. Now, the problem with that and why somehow it seems that it's seen as a discrimination not have women as priests, is because the voice of the priesthood has become a juridical voice when it's meant to be a sacramental voice. We are in the person of Christ when we are celebrating the Eucharist and the other sacraments. But at the same time, our voice on the altar preaching has become the only voice. But it shouldn't be. Our voice should not necessarily be a juridical voice. It shouldn't necessarily be a governing voice that is meant to be shared with both men and women. And so this is why we need to...women need to understand their responsibility and to know what they are to fight for. Not necessarily the sacramental priesthood, because that is the person of Christ who happened to was a male, and that is where we represent sacramentally the masculinity as well of Jesus, but also that is not the only voice and this is the problem that somehow it has become the only, the only time you hear people preach, teach or hear a voice is very often it's just on a Sunday mass where there's more so much more to the church and even a Sunday mass.

Speaker 3: 4:05

Thanks for that explanation. That helps a lot. I think that with my friends that maybe aren't Catholic or aren't practicing Catholic, I get asked that question a lot, especially when they find out that I work for FRG ministry and you know, I'm working for the Catholic Church, I'm representing the Catholic Church, and they're like, but why would you do that when they're, I guess pushing you down? I personally have never felt like I've been pushed away or belittled, but I can understand that with those friends particularly that have asked me when they only go to mass once a year, twice a year, or even only on Sundays then yeah, it's a very male dominated in terms of altar servers are usually males, priests are always males and yeah, so it's really nice to hear that through baptism we are all called to be priests, but then at a sacramental priesthood. So thank you.

: 4:49

And I think one of the things that the church needs to learn is that we need to raise up women. We need to learn how to do that and we need to begin a more relevant dialogue and how to do that. But I'm going to go a little bit into scripture because I think one of the biggest thieves of authority is somehow women also not understanding their responsibility to rise up. I've seen like I speak at conferences around the world. I work with musicians around the world and music arts preaching. I've seen the most amazing preachers I've ever had preach are women and somehow these are the people who rise up are the ones that actually recognize that they have the authority because we need to hear that prophetic voice of women. That's also part of who God is. The church is incomplete. The Voice of God is incomplete. If all we hear is the voice of males, but let's start. Let's be a devil's advocate here. I want to go to one Timothy two 11 to 15 which is a controversial thing, but I think let's start from the negative because I think once we understand things in context, we can better understand the authority of women and the responsibility of women to rise up as, as a prophetic voice.

Speaker 3: 6:03

So one Timothy Chapter two verse 11 and 15 it says, let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man she is to keep silent for Adam was formed first and then eve and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing, provided they continue in faith and love and holiness with modesty

Speaker 2: 6:30

That on first that's even makes me cringe. Then I can see you cringing as yes. And, and I think one of the things again is that context, context, context, context. Because you see a lot of the scripture contradicts that are all over the acts of the apostles. Luke, exodus, the book of judges, Romans Book of Psalms. It contradicts that very scripture verse. And so why...

: 6:54

Why does this exist then? Well, because of the context it was written in. So every book and the Saint Paul here, it was writing to Timothy who was living in a Greek town. Okay. Now, Greek towns had Greek gods. So this town where Timothy was living in was a thown where I think it was emphasis, actually it was a town which was dominated a nd the biggest god of the time was this goddess of fertility.

Speaker 2: 7:23

Okay. And so because of that, they believed that women were created first and the women should have the loudest voice. And that's, that's fair enough. But it became about suppression as well of the, of the men. Okay. And so that the women used to run the town and that's fine. Okay. But the, this is what the context it was written in. So this town was famous for one thing. Okay. This town was a place where the goddess she had, she was a big woman, multi breasted woman. And people used to come. And because at that time, women used to die a childbirth. So what they used to do was they used to pilgrim from all around the grease to come to this place to give birth before this goddess. And this was a promise to them that they would survive childbirth if they came to this place. And so these Christians going, Timothy goes in and start seeing conversions. You know, like you start seeing, whoa, people are coming to God, but the women somehow wouldn't convert. The men were converting. But the women weren't because they were a loud voices at the time that were women speaking out saying, Hey, don't convert because if you convert you're going to die a childbirth and this God, this is going to be angry. So what does Saint Paul do? Saint Paul sends this letter in the context only of this community saying, hey guys, just keep quiet. Keep these, these women who are stopping the conversion, stopping the people coming to Jesus from having this loud voice and in fact it continues. It's this way and where they believe that women came first, he's putting them into the of scripture saying, hey, actually it wasn't women who were created first it was men according to Adam and Eve, the story of Adam and eve and then it's finished off. Can you just read the verse 15 which I find really interesting.

Speaker 3: 9:08

So that's 15, yet she will be saved through child bearing, provided she continue in faith and love and holiness with modest.

Speaker 2: 9:14

Now when I read that I think, ah, okay, she'll give birth to children, therefore she'll be saved through giving birth. No...

: 9:20

I'm like only through giving back. That's what I would read it out. Yes. But what it is saying in context is saying, hey, you're going to give birth but you're not going to die because Jesus is going to save you through faith. You see, so don't be afraid of leaving this false god. Come to Jesus and even he's going to save you. Save your life while you are giving birth. So don't be afraid of dying. Don't not convert because you're afraid of dying a childbirth. And so this is where God is saying through faith in Jesus you will be saved. Not even childbirth will kill you. So again, it's in context of scripture in the context of way it was written and who it was written for. In fact, let's just go a quickly like to some verses that contradict this, this verse and I just, I've just listed a few things. Your acts 1818 to 28. This is the very same town that is saying Timothy is in. Okay. This, the emphasis again, we're in this. All right, so this is after, okay. So this happened after. So acts 18. So there's Paulus is out and he's preaching and his teaching and he the scripture says that he's like an amazing disciple, you know, but what happens is Priscilla comes up to him and says, Hey, actually, I am going to teach you a little bit more about the scripture. And what he does is, so Priscilla, this woman and her husband actually teached him the deeper and the more profound ways, more accurate teaching of Jesus. And they accept it. They accept it. Sold. Priscilla, a woman influenced one of the greatest preachers of the time and also acts 21 verse eight, another book another chapter in acts. It says. Phillip had four profit as daughters, they used to speak out, they used to prophesied they used to be a voice, but now all of a sudden we've lost the voice of women because all the only voice we hear is on a Sunday mass. A priest on a Sunday mass. But there's so much more to that.

Speaker 3: 11:21

Oh, one thing like this isn't necessarily about, you know, women preaching, but I notice a lot, you know, I go to conferences or retreat and there's a woman speaker and she's like, all right, we're going to do a woman's session. And I hear about how beautiful I am or how gentle I am and how the church needs those gifts, but I never, like well, I have never heard and rarely I think women would hear that we're called to also be prophetesses.

Speaker 2: 11:44

Yes, prophetesses. To have a voice. And I think it's not a, it's not only like you said, the word we're called to, it's not only an option or how nice are their prophetess. No, it's a responsibility. It's a baptism responsibility and we are prophets and prophetsses to our families, through the way we speak out in public through the way we create opportunities to speak out and now the church is poor when on the time that people hear the word of God is on a Sunday at a mass. So even a weekday mass which is like the source and summit of our faith, which is the most important part and it's just amazing to be there to receive the word of God essentially.

: 12:24

Quick disclaimer. Please, go to mass. Yes, exactly. So and it is about that but at the same time we're sort of ripped off, if we don't go further and that also we're going to continue with the scripture verses at luke two Anna, the prophetess Jesus is presented to Anna and she's the prophetess of speaking.

Speaker 2: 12:46

The word of God prophesied, encouraging the people in the faith. Exodus 15 Miriam, an amazing prophet as a voice, a loud voice and this is one I love. Look them in judges, Old Testament, old testament judges four which talks about this woman called Deborah. Now, Deborah was the head prophetess, so they were in queens at the time. Okay. But she was the head judge of all of Israel. So she was appointed by God to be the head of, of the Israelite people, you know, so God himself appointed her. And then one other amazing one, which is really interesting for those of you who read scripture, Romans 16 seven. I mean this is one to highlight, especially for the women and the men too. It says this, that Paul greets junia. Now junia it's a female name. Okay, so Paul greets junia and you know what he calls her junia?

: 13:44

>>Junior<<?

Speaker 2: 13:47

No, cause in an Australian accent it's j u n i o r, but it's j u n I a junia.

: 13:54

Junia. No, but he calls it, he says this, he says you are outstanding amongst the apostles. That's crazy. He calls her like... And makes the distinction between disciple and apostle. He calls her, but this is crazy. I don't know. He calls her an apostle like the 12 apostles. He calls her outstanding, like amongst the apostles. So this is crazy. Again, somehow women have come down and their voice has come down. And then of course, one of the greatest, if not the greatest women that ever lived and as perfect human. And who's you think that is? Probably Mary. That's it. That's Mary. And Mary, you know what I mean? Jesus, listen to her. You know, he obeyed her and the wedding of Canaan, he listened to her. And in fact he said, woman my time has not yet come. And then she sort of never payed attention and said do whatever he tells you. And so she, in a sense, he obeyed her command he was led by have faith in him. And so again, this is our responsibility as priests, as a church. It's our responsibility as men and as women to make sure that we raise the voice of women within our church because otherwise we are being deprived of a very big part of the voice of God.

Speaker 3: 15:16

So before we go into our interview, which is with an incredible international speaker, Katy prejean, she is a woman who was understood that we are called as women, as baptized Christians to go and proclaim the good news, which psalm 68, verse 11 says, the Lord gives the command, the woman who proclaims the good tidings are great host. And how incredible is that? So we're going to go into this interview now with Katie Prejean.

Speaker 4: 15:52

I'm here at the La Congress, sitting on the floor, trying to find a quiet place with Katie Prejean, an amazing speaker, a woman of God, and author of three books. A mama and also a woman who was very much in demand in the Catholic world across the United States and the world. And we'll be coming to Australia to and so welcome Katie. It's all great to talk to you. Yeah.

Speaker 6: 16:22

To finally get to chat in person. Yes. Yeah. We're back and forth on the Internet all the time. And that's right. Yeah, it's great. It's great to be here. It's great to be in this hallway. It's good to be an Anaheim. Catholic Disneyland is what I always call it. Um, but yeah, it's fun. It's a fun weekend.

: 16:35

Yeah. So it's an incredible conference there. I think it's up to like 35 or 40. It's huge. That's the 5,000 people attending this conference on yesterday. Both you and I spoke at Youth Day as well, maybe 12,000 or so. Yeah. Young people. How amazing. What a privilege it is to be able to serve the Lord like this. It is, it's a gift to get to watch young people, um, encounter Christ and then to get to work the next day with the people that are working with young people every day. So it's, it's every year I come to this and I'm encouraged to kind of keep going throughout the rest of the year. It's a little later this year I feel like. So it's like at the end of my travel season for the next month or so, I'm taking off. So, but it's quite fun to get, to reconnect with people and to get to share the gospel. I'm tired, but it's, it's a joyful tiredness.

Speaker 5: 17:17

Yes, exactly. What I think we are living on adrenaline. And then you go home and sleep with baby and exactly. I will take a long nap. Yeah, that's right. And so look, I just thought, I wanted to take the opportunity to talk to you about women in the church because I knew, like even following you on social media, seeing what you're doing, the authorship and the boldness you have to, to speak out and to be a prophet, a prophet who is in the church. A voice that the church needs so much, the voice of, of women. And so I just thought maybe let's have a little conversation to encourage these Catholic influencers. You are a Catholic influencer and to see how we can raise up women in the church. So look, can we just start a little bit about yourself? You started speaking, how are you now? A public speaker in demand that was speaking all around the world.

Speaker 6: 18:08

So I was always involved in youth ministry as a, as a young person and was then my senior year of high school. Uh, so I was still a youth. I was involved in what we call the core team of our diocese. So it's about 30 or 40 young people that were handpicked to help plan and prepare for all of our events. And so my youth director, who had also been my eighth grade religion teacher, another woman in the church who is a firestorm of just energy and vision, and she's so good at pinpointing talents. She said, hey, I know you're involved in speech and debate. I know you have something to say. Do you want to give a keynote? So I was the first team keynote at our annual youth conference and it went well. I mean, I was on speech and debate team, so I knew how to write a speech. I knew how to kind of develop rhetoric, um, and went really well. I really enjoyed it. I wanted to study theology. So I went to the University of Dallas, I studied theology and there the Lord really put on my heart a desire to teach. And so I was a youth minister at a parish in Chicago for a year, but really wanting to be a Catholic school teacher. And so I was a Catholic school teacher for five years after that, and the Lord calls you forward in this ministry. I'm convinced of that. And so then that pestering voice was like, well, if somebody needs you to speak at a confirmation retreat, you should say yes. And so then the phone starts ringing in the community calls you forward. And then the next thing you know, you're traveling 150,000 miles a year. And every step of the way, I'm always like, wait, where am I going? Like what is the Lord having me? Who am I talking to you? And what about, um, and it was a very organic, like I never, I have a website and I have business cards, but I never like mailed out, hey, I'm going to be in this part of the country. You should hire me. Yeah, it was very much, people talk and people hear your message and they're like, oh, we really liked that. Like let's empower you and let's use you. And then I'm really at a position now I'm a mom. Like you said, my daughter's 18 months old. She knows when Mommy's gone. So Tommy and I are really at the phase of life where we're being a little more discerning in what we say yes to. And we really ask ourselves, how am I the right person for this event and am I the right person for this event? And then what is the Lord going to do in my life as a result of the event? And so that has helped us become very discerning and what we're choosing to do in ministry.

Speaker 5: 20:10

You do have to choose because, and then like I've traveled halfway around the world for like a small group of people and it's just not viable. And so it's really a hard as well to, to choose to descend the right thing to do. Especially I don't have a family, but you do. But I do have a parish that I need to look up.

Speaker 6: 20:27

Well, your people have god and yeah, it's as an influencer in that regard. It's always like, as my influence needed there. And the beautiful thing is that social media kind of lets you be everywhere all the time. That's right. Using instaStories and using youtube and podcasting, you can be anywhere and also at the comfort of your own home. And so I think really being able to use those platforms and beautiful ways, it's a cool time. Absolutely. And so I want to ask you, Katie, just particularly about women raising up in the church. Now I'm sure you get this, I don't know if there's any discrimination within the church. Can we start maybe with a little bit of the challenges that you have as a woman, speaking prophetically, speaking as let's called it what it is a male dominated institution. Yeah. It's so the like the micro aggression that I've experienced most as when like a man especially will come up to you after a talk and be like, I was really surprised, that was so good. It's like what you have said that to a dude? Probably not. Um, so like sometimes there's a shock value of like, oh, she can talk about other stuff other than like a women's session or she can talk about theology. She can talk about Mary. She could talk about the synod, like there's sometimes a lower expectation of a woman. And so my line always is women in the church have to work twice as hard to get half as far. It's not just a pay gap, it's not just a respect gap as awful. I'll also a place at the table gap. There have been some men that I've encountered who think that women shouldn't get to have a space or a voice in a parish community as far as leadership is concerned. They don't think women should be employees at the church because that just means they secretly want to be priests. And so there's this idea of like, if a woman has a place at the table, I as a man would lose my spot at the table. And it's like, no, no, no dude, you don't lose your spot at the table. The table just got bigger, you know? And I think we have to make places and spaces for women's gifts and talents. I mean, look at how did God choose to come into this world by way of a woman. And I hate to break it to you, but like Mary is the only perfect person besides Jesus. So like every time a woman is rising up in the church, I love that phrase that you're using is being empowered, is speaking, is using her voice. She's being very marien in mass. I mean, who told Jesus to go do that miracle? Mary. So like if you ignore women, you're very much ignoring an element and an aspect of our church. And every time I experienced that aggression a little bit or that sexism, I'm just kind of like, I feel sorry for you more than getting mad now I just, I pity them for not seeing what the church is.

Speaker 5: 22:56

And it's also even among clergy we are not used to this like everything is so exclusive. Even the way we eat our meals, just priests alone and discussions and in rectories and Presbyteries, we call them, just sitting down, having conversation of governance and things like that. And then so we don't, and women are usually the ones serving the table. And they are usually the ones in the sacristy and so on. So for, but I think women need to rise up and we need, the church is so incomplete without women even teaching and preaching and directing us, listening, and I use the word prophetic voice because this is what a prophet is. A prophet is someone who listens to the Voice of God and speaks it out and who is to say it's not a men role, it's a human role.

Speaker 6: 23:46

Look at the role of women in the Old Testament. There's so many, Ruth and Esther and Judith, it's so many powerful voices that we are able to not just direct men but direct fellow women. I also think it's like the way youth events specifically, which we speak out it in a lot. Most of them are attended from 60 to 70% of the crowd is a young woman. That's right. And so they need to see people like them. They need to see young women who are living the faith and then hear from people who have done it and who can empower them and expose them to the truths of the faith. And you know, it'd be good enough to also then speak to the young men in that crowd. But a young woman I think feels more isolated if they're not seeing other women than a young man does. If he doesn't see other men

Speaker 5: 24:30

Because they stay as spectators, they say they like, this is my role. This will always be my role. And seeing a woman is sort of aspiring to become, again, this voice and an instrument a powerfull instrument to god. Now, if I were to ask like, women, what can women bring? Now this is not to say better, but of course that is different to men. What are we missing out when we're blocking women, uh, away from the platform?

Speaker 6: 24:55

So John Paul, the second says in Redemptoris Mater, and I always referenced this in women's sessions that I give, that that Mary is, it kind of gives a snapshot of the loftiest sentiments of the human heart. And those are visible and in the lives of every woman. And so when women are involved in the church, we see this, this tireless devotion to work. We see a penetrating intuition. We see a limitless fidelity and devotion to like to giving themselves. Um, we see this self offering, totality of love. And so when a woman is kept out of the room, you're losing out on not just a female perspective, but you're losing out on that, that commitment, and you're losing out on that creativity and you're losing out on, I think the softness and the motherliness that our church is so desperately in need of, especially right now in the midst of scandal. And so men that have resisted female influence or female voices or to the man that's just never experienced like the leadership of a woman, it seems other, and it seems weird, or perhaps they're resistant to it only because I've never been exposed. You're given that opportunity to see a woman in that position or to see the woman be able to preach and prophesied essentially. Um, and I get that. I get that. It might be different, but you're missing out on something really remarkable and beautiful. I really think women also bring a unique creativity, not just a design sense, like we, we're not just going to decorate the church, but like an ability to kind of like see surveyed the landscape. So, I'm sorry, I'm all over the place when I say this, but like men are doers, like men take an idea and they go do it. And I think women dream maybe a little more than men do. And so I think the dreams of women can then be enacted by the work in the hands of men and then together it's this beautiful creative, uh, child essentially that it's made. And I think that that beautiful partnership is so necessary. Yes.

: 26:43

And I also and other things like without the Holy Spirit's how important the Holy Spirit. And, and the reason I say this is because I've heard this, like, I've seen this on social media, especially friends who are not involved, who don't have this relationship with God, but they comments like, and this is an extreme, but it's comes in all forms. Things like men have had the chance to, to run the world now get out of the way. Let the women take it over. Yeah. Yeah. So how can we just, I'm just leavin it there. Just your comments on that. Yeah.

Speaker 6: 27:12

I think it's, it's gotta be a partnership. It's not that men need to step on the next of women or that women need to climb the shoulders of men. Is that together we need to walk side by side and be yoked together in the journey towards Christ and towards goodness, truth and beauty. My mother is the CEO of her own company. She is a CPA, she has employees, she has clients. My whole life I watched my mom rock that world and rock the Corporate America and be very successful. My father works in finance for a big bank, did not have the same high power position my mother had worked really hard and is very successful in his own position. I'm like, I never saw the two of them compete. I only ever saw the two of them build one another up and encourage them. And in my own marriage, Tommy is my biggest cheerleader. And also the one that encourages me to dream and then I get to turn around and be like, no, what do you want to do? And how can we work together to make your dreams come true and having those become our dreams. I don't think it needs to be an either or. It's a both. And we walk together.

Speaker 5: 28:09

That's right. We just had a trolley. Yes. Walk by an ice buckets and those buckets. It's fun folks. We're in the middle of a hotel hallway. So Katie, just one more question. Okay. Women. Okay. How are the women, in this podcast listening to us, how are they going to raise up the rise up? They may be feel stuck. They feel they don't know what to do in the church. Who are they? What's the most they can be a minister of communion? What's the most they can do is read a church? How are they going to, not that they're not important roles, extremely important roles, but how can they rise up? How can they make their female voice heared and their heart be heared by the wider church.

Speaker 6: 28:54

Yeah. So I think the first thing is really pray as a woman, what am my gifts, one are my talents, what could I offer? And then be persistent. Um, there's, I mean Mary, it tells something to Jesus. He kind of writes her off and then she turns around and just do whatever he tells you. Cause she knows that that penetrating intuition, she knows. So I think there's going to be a persistence and sometimes it's going to come in the form of like, father, I want to start a Bible study in the parish. And oftentimes priests might say no to things because they don't want more work. So the best way to do it, it's just to be like, I'll do it. I'll do all the heavy lifting just to give me permission to do it. Oftentimes too, we look for permission where permission is not needed. Like I could start a Bible study in my home, I could start, you know, I could go to coffee with my friends and we could do a book study together. If I have something to say. The beauty of social media is that anybody can say it and people, if it's a good message from the Lord, people will listen. Right? Like self promotion and influencing happens in the church because the lord advocates and fights for that person's voice to be heard. I'm convinced of that. So ways that we as women can do that is figure out our gifts and then just be unafraid to share them boldly. Yeah, and so this is my hope and prayer for all the listeners that they would rise up, especially the women. We need your voice, we need your heart and we need you to listen to the Lord and to be courageous, to stand the riser and to make a difference. But also Katie, listen, thank you so much for your time here, but quickly, how can we get in touch with you? You have a podcast as well. You have a website, social media, and tell us how we can get in touch. So my website is katieprejean.com and I'm coming to Australia into the Australian listeners out there. I'm super pumped about that in December, but I'm on Instagram and Twitter at Katieprejean and then my husband and I have a podcast, the electric waffle, the electric waffles, so check that out. So thank you so much and God bless you and we as listeners also myself and listeners will be praying for you.

Speaker 1: 30:45

Thanks Rob.

: 30:45

Listen, thank you so much for joining us today. Just now we'd like to conclude with a bit of a prayers, that's really for the women in the church that we may rise up and fulfill this call that we have through our baptism to proclaim the good news. In the name of the father, son, Holy Spirit. Amen. Lord Jesus Christ. We ask you to open the hearts of women and men around the world, part of the church, that we create a space at the table for women and that we may have our voices heard and speak your truth into the lives of everyone we meet as is our calling through the baptism to enter your body. We asked for our mother Mary's intercession, that she may guide us along this journey to holiness and through bringing others into the church that they might also enter heaven for eternity. Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is thee. Blessed are you among women. And blessed is the fruit of your womb. Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God. Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. So please get in touch with us@ frgministry. com/podcast or any of FRG ministry. Social media is Twitter, Instagram, Facebook. We really want to hear from you. And also don't forget to go check out Katie Prejean, um, social media as well. Until next time, God bless.