In this episode of the Catholic Influencers Podcast Fr. Rob Galea and Danii discuss what the Catholic Church and the bible teach about getting tattoos and some things that should be considered when planning to get a tattoo.
Fr. Rob interviews Pastor Phillip Webb, a protestant pastor from Sydney. Ps. Phillip completed a doctorate on Christianity and tattoos and shares his findings on the scriptural foundations and insights from interviews for his study.
An OSV Podcasts partner. Discover more ways to live, learn, and love your Catholic faith at osvpodcasts.com. Sharing stories, starting conversations.
In this episode of the Catholic Influencers Podcast Fr. Rob Galea and Danii discuss what the Catholic Church and the bible teach about getting tattoos and some things that should be considered when planning to get a tattoo.
Fr. Rob interviews Pastor Phillip Webb, a protestant pastor from Sydney. Ps. Phillip completed a doctorate on Christianity and tattoos and shares his findings on the scriptural foundations and insights from interviews for his study.
An OSV Podcasts partner. Discover more ways to live, learn, and love your Catholic faith at osvpodcasts.com. Sharing stories, starting conversations.
Hey everybody, welcome to the Catholic Influencers Podcast. A conversation to help Catholic Influencers like you and me go deeper and further in influencing our world for Jesus. I'm your host father Rob Galea and I am your Co-host Danii Sullivan. And we look forward to talking to you today about tattoos and the church. How has your week been?
Speaker 3:I was gonna say so good without even thinking. I think I've had a good week. Oh No, I was sick.
:You are sick. And I never like, I very rarely get sick, so when I do I'm like, mom, I'm dying but I think it was just a blocked nose. And you thought, you thought it was hay fever but it was actually a cold and I could have got sick. Oh my goodness. Glad back to you. How was your week?
Speaker 2:My Week was good. I've been working, I don't even know what I did the last few days, but over the weekend working in the parish. Interesting that I haven't traveled for a while, so it feels very strange to me.
:You in Sydney on Friday. Oh yeah. That is the ages ago. Today's like Tuesday. Oh my Gosh. A full four days of no travel. Yeah, exactly. So, but it's been good. It's been good. So today you have an interesting topic and one that, a lot of people ask me every week I get an email or a comment or someone asking me about my tattoos and what, why do Christians get tattoos? In fact, I remember just one time being in Indonesia and after a concert this young woman came up to men. She was full of tattoos and she came up to me crying. She said Father Rob, I thought the Catholic Church had a problem with tattoos. In fact, she got tattoos and then was looked at really badly at the next time she went to mass. And so she stopped going to mass for a long, long time. But then just saw that, that I had tattoos as a priest. And so she started to think, wait, hold on a minute. Maybe I'll go back to church.
Speaker 3:Is it true that the Catholic Church has a problem? Because like Hillsong, they've got like these cool hipster Musos, they've got tattoos, but like not that many Catholic priests have tattoos. From what I understand. Is it like Catholic thing?
Speaker 2:Well, on an inside level I think there are a lot of tats. Priests who have tattoos, but they don't necessarily show them from a, but you see if you look at it, what does the church teach about tattoos? Well, ultimately, Nothing. Nothing or at least not directly the church doesn't have. In fact a particular teaching on every little thing.
:and that's it. We'll see you next week. No, there's more to it than that though. The only time the church teaches us things, particularly when the catechism and the teachings of the church and if there's something objectively immoral or some you do the right things for the wrong reasons. So we have immoral motives to talk about.
Speaker 3:Yes. So like the church doesn't have a teaching on tattoos. And even in the catechism, in the Catholic church, like there's no index, there's nothing on tattoos. Like you're going to"T" and there's nothing but there is in paragraph three, six, forth there it talks about like the temples, the human body being a temple and it says the human body shares in the dignity of the image of God. And then a little bit further down in same paragraph, it goes on to say, for this reason men or women may not despise his bodily life. Rather he's obliged to regard his body as good and to hold it in honor since God has created it and we'll raise it up on the last day.
Speaker 2:Hmm. So the body is objectively good and we should honor the body in everything we do. In fact, that quote is in the catechism of the Catholic church, but it is quoted from gaudium et spes, a vatican council document. So the question that you see that we need to is we need to honor our bodies and regard our bodies is good. They are intrinsically good. Okay. So, and whether our bodies look good, look bad, feel good, feel bad, our bodies are still good because they are created by God and they're created good. So the question when doing things like tattoos or even piercings is not whether this is morally right or morally wrong because we won't have an answer there. But the question we need to ask is, am I honoring my body as a god given good. If I get this Tattoo or I get this Piercing. So we need to understand that we need to honor the body in everything we do. Everything we eat, every piercing, every tattoo, always to honor the God given body that we have.
Speaker 3:That's really reassuring to know that it's not like a teaching of the church that's wrong to have piercings or tattoos cause I've got both. And I would hate to have to leave the church.
:Or remove the tattoos or the piercing, which to choose. Oh my goodness. Isn't it sad that my first thought was, oh no, I guess no, I would never, no. Never do anything to dishonor the church. Of course. But yeah, at the end, that is a really... Yeah, and that's really nice because I know that in Ezekiel there is, um, I'll read it out now. So Ezekiel chapter 16, verse 11. Um, and it's just talking about Piercings here. So I dorned you with ornaments. I put bracelets on your arms, a chain on your neck, a ring on your nose, Earrings's in your ears and a beautiful crown upon your head. So even like in the Bible here, it's got earrings. So how can? I don't know, I guess how can we know that earrings aren't bad, but then tattoos. When there mentioned the Bible, it's a little bit more iffy. Yeah. Well look according to Ezekiel. This is something, obviously this was written in a cultural setting where piercings were done and often done. Um, and it, we know through scripture that there is nothing objectively, um, immoral about piercings because this as what you just read it is the groom dorning the bride with piercings on their nose and on their ears. But just because it's objectively, okay to have these Piercings doesn't mean everyone has to get them. And it doesn't mean that we have to get our nose pierced and our ears pierced. But let's talk about tattoos. Do you see this is different because scripture doesn't have a really positive, um, say about tattoos, but I think also it's so, so important to look at context. Let's read Leviticus 19, vers 28.
Speaker 3:So yeah, in Leviticus Chapter 19 Verse 28, it says, you should not make any gashes on your flesh for the dead or tattoo any marks upon you. I am the Lord. So like, I feel like that says pretty black and white in scripture they're like don't get tattoos.
Speaker 2:So that's it. It's forbidden. Yeah. So we really could wrap this up in 30 seconds. That's right. Tune in next week. So, well, look, I think we have to put it again in the context of Leviticus. Leviticus is a book written, which is a very much part of the Bible and important part of the Bible. Um, but it is all about ritual. The things that we should do and shouldn't do in approaching God, but also moral purity. But it is, and this is I'm not saying this just because I, there's something I agree or don't agree with, but it is no longer relevant to Christians. And how do I know that? Because it's written in the acts of the apostles. The council came together and actually said and actually said that these laws no longer hold us. In fact, let's just again in context, can you read the verse before Verse 27 it says this...
:So Verse 27 says, you should not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard. So what it's saying there, that same verse that says not to have tattoos is the same the verse before. It's just saying, don't trim your hair. Don't shave the sides of your head. I went for a haircut yesterday, so I disobeyed Leviticus. I'm going to have to stop shaving my beard.
Speaker 2:Yes. Well, I don't know if you do have a beard. Please don't stop shaving your beard.
Speaker 3:Imaging me come in on a Monday. I just let my beard go for the weekend.
:The Bible told me not to shave my beard. I was just trying to be a good Christian Father Rob.
Speaker 2:And also Leviticus in other verses forbids you to eat shellfish and to eat pork
Speaker 3:like verse 29 here says, do not profane your daughter by making her a prostitute like hell, how is that...
:That escalated quickly. But how do we know like so you're saying like tattoos don't have to count that one. Cause in Acts it says, nope, some of them aren't real. How can we have to like, oh we can ignore number 27 and 28, but also like it's pretty relevant even in the 21st century, don't make your daughter a prostitute, that still stands?
Speaker 2:Well, some things in Leveticus are still forbidden for Christians. And for example, the verses you just read and also they still talk about murder and adultery, but this is because it is objectively immoral. Okay. So there are certain things that are a moral that not necessarily immoral. It's not immoral to cut the sides of your hair. It's not immoral to trim your beard, but it's not immoral to eat pork. But it is immoral to murder someone. Okay. Cause you're taking away the life of someone else, which we don't have a right to do that, but which one does tattoos fall under? Does it fall under pork or does it fall under murder?
:There's a big gap there. Yes and well, I think context again is so important. Okay. So people would, this was written in a time where Jews used to live among pagans. Okay. And so the way you knew a Christian or a pagan as someone who was involved in particular pagan ritual or practice was if they were branded for the God they served. So they were hundreds, possibly thousands of gods, and each person was branded by the God they served. Except for the Jews. The Jews. weren't branded, they had the long beard and that's how they were identified. And they weren't allowed to shave it. Yes, that's right. While everyone else shave their beard. So that was the way you would identify who they hair wouldn't be trimmed because otherwise they would be identified with other pagan practices. So it's not about the permanence of the mark of the body, it's about being identified and claiming yourself for a particular God. Okay. And it, the thing is Christians still should not participate in pagan ritual, whether they are involved, tattoos or not. But the reality is this is not why people get tattoos. Today, I didn't get a tattoo to label myself for a particular pagan and most pagan practice. At least I haven't actually, I have seen some people with horrendous tattoos and things that l abeled them even Satanic-Tattoos. And that's in a sense, that's where i t becomes i ffy and wrong. But most of the people I know don't label themselves for a particular God when they get tattoos. So most of the position then like these days, most Christians isn't scriptural. It's more like that cultural. So like not satanic, not pagen nothing, I guess that would mark your body permanently for something other than you know, what you believe in or your faith or something that you would stand by.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So look at the exactly. So the opposition is not a moral one, but it is a cultural one. And because tattoos are very much associated with certain beliefs and certain cultural standings. For example, I don't know, I remember when I was growing up, my dad, my dad had a furnishing company and he had factories. He had like these big, big factories that used to employ people, but he would never employ anyone who had a piercing or a tattoo. And he would come up to me and say, Robert, I interviewed someone but they had tattoos so I didn't give them the job.
:There's something really similar in the town I grew up in. For anyone that's not Australian listening, I'll explain this word, this word Bogan and. Redneck. Yeah like a redneck like, you just, it's not someone you aspire to be. And a lot of bogans have like the southern cross tattooed somewhere. Usually like on a carf, on their upper arm. And it's kind of like branding yourself as a bogan. Like it's just kind of, my brother is similar I guess to what you're saying there. Like he'll meet someone he will be like. Oh yeah, no, they were all right. But that is southern cross tattoo. And instantly, you know, you're like, oh, they are bogan.
Speaker 2:Exactly. But that's the way you perceive them as bogen. They wouldn't see them. So, oh, I'm Bogan, I'm going to get that.
:They're probably really proud of it. Sorry, bogans. There's nothing wrong with being a bogan. Okay. But you see I think this is cultural as well, the way we perceive things. Before it was prisoners, gangsters and people who were maybe considered lower class or untrustworthy were the ones that would get tattoos. And that's why my dad wouldn't employ them because in his mind, someone who have a Tattoo, it means they spent time in prison. When that was a bias, you know, it was a cultural bias. And in fact of the biggest criticisms I get for my tattoos as a priest is not from Australia or from America or from Europe, but funnily enough, it is from Mexico. And because it's, t hey're still, for example, in Mexico, this strong idea that it is the criminals, the gangsters that, that have these tattoos.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And one thing that we learned, so we researched for every podcast. And one thing that I learned with this one, which I found really interesting, is that Christians had actually been tattooing for a really long time. So there is in like a British Museum, there's this mummified remains of a Sudanese woman that actually has a monogram of Saint Michael on her inner thigh, or even in medieval Europe. They would do religious pilgrimages to Jerusalem. And while they were there, they would get a tattoo to signify that they've completed that pilgrimage. And there's actually a tattoo parlor. In the holy lands that started tattooing in like 1,380 so it's been going for hundreds of years. Um, and then as well, you know, Coptic Christians have a cross on their wrist to signify that they are Christian. And that was because they needed that to be able to be let in to the churches. So this traditional tattooing in Christianity isn't something where, I don't know, like I said earlier, Hillsong's just decided that it looks cool with their RM William boots and their skinny jeans.
:That's an Australian brand, again. It's a hipster thing. Um, but you know, it's something that Christians have been doing for a really long time
Speaker 2:and for the right reasons as well, like the pilgrimages and also the thing on the wrist is to identify themselves. And also it was the place where Christ wounds, where we often think of Christ wounds on the inside of the arms, but there's no way the cross the arm would have had the strength to carry the weight of Jesus there. So it was on actually on the wrist. And so it was again, a place of Christ's wounds. So it was done for the right reasons. And it's, as you said, it's been done for hundreds of even if not thousands of years and it's not a recent phenomenon. Can you say that word phenomenon.
:Oh there is a fun fact. I can only say that word if I sing it like the muppets, so I can say phenomenon. Okay, so you can say it.
Speaker 2:So it is not a recent phenomenon. It is something that has been happening for ages, for ages and for a reason. Now having said this, we're going to conclude here because we're going to go to an interview very soon and this is an interview with Phil. Phil is a protestant pastor who has done a doctorate, can you believe it? And Christians and tattoos. So he's quite a specialist in that. So we get to interview him and talk to him about this. But before we go on, I just still, one thing that we do need to do is is to be prudent. There's nothing anti Christian about tattoos, but still there are certain things, and I'm gonna just say maybe five things that we need to be careful of when doing a tattoo. First of all safety. Look after your body. Don't take any needless risk to your body, watch your health. Make sure that the standards of the tattoo parlor up to standard and that you're going to be looked after and that there's no reuse needles and so on, so forth, and get medical help if there's any infection or anything that comes out of that. The second thing is consider how others perceive this. If you're going to get piercings or tattoos on your neck and you're going to work with elderly people in the hospital, just consider the reaction. Consider how it might affect people. Not that we need to be controlled by what others think of us, but let's be considerate. The third thing is art. It's make sure it's good art. And I know art is subjective. What is good and what is not, but think of it as, as temple art versus defacing it with graffiti. Okay? Um, and honor your body and don vandalize it to decorate it to don't desecrate it. The fourth thing is, think forever that this is going to last forever. Don't take something that's fashionable for a while, you know, like the pineapples, my goodness, those are fashionable for a while and everyone got pineapples and that happened for a while. But just think twice. Think three times before that happened.
:They got Pineapple tattoos or they just bought the fruit? No, pineapple tattoos. What, that is soo...why? There was a very big phase, maybe it's still fashionable. Maybe it still will be in 40 years. I don't know. But a cool tattoo, my keyboardist, he got a pair of socks tattooed onto his until his feet. That's a small pair of socks. That's really cool. No, no, that tiny on his ankle biters was cool anyway, so if when you think it is forever, just think for example, if you print three or four t-shirts and wear that same shirt with the design of your tattoo where that same t shirt for six months. See if you get sick of the design, obviously wash those t-shirts in between, because you will seriously get sick of those, that design. So we'll society and the rest of everyone they will hate your tattoo. And then the fifth thing is your motives is your motive for vanity or because you don't feel good about a particular part of your body. So you want to cover that or that you think that this tattoo is going to make you happy. Just watch your motives, do it for the right reasons. So if you get a tattoo, get something that will inspire you and remind you of what is most important in your lives. And the greatest importance is that we honor God and we remember that God is the center of everything and this draws us closer to God. So now we're going to go into the interview that father Rob has had with pastor Phil, it's a really interesting, I listened to it already because I'm sneaky and I have that private access, but it was really like interesting and I couldn't stop listening. So we're going to go into that now about his research on the scriptural foundation to if Christians like are or are not allowed to get Tattoos and what they should consider if they do.
Speaker 2:So we're here in the Catholic Influencers Podcast. I'm here in the studio and Bill Pastor Phil Webb who is an ordained minister in the A CC church. Um, and is it the head pastor, senior pastor in a bilingual church in south Sydney. And um, it's just a privilege to be able to talk to him, to interview him today about Christians and tattoos. You see because this is quite sometimes seen as something Tabu. Pastor Phil actually studied Pentecostalism, Pentecostals and tattoo. So it's such a privilege Phil to have you and to, and to listen to your, your mind and your heart about the subject.
Speaker 4:I'm really glad to be here and able to do this interview as you said. So yeah, when I was during my masters degree I decided to research, why Pentecostals are choosing to get tattoos.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Cause a lot of Pentacostals, like you see Hillsong, you see these churches with young people full of tattoos.
Speaker 4:Yes there's many. And as a pastor who has been in the Assembly of God, ACC, now for around twenty years. I watched particularly that strict holiness movement that traditionally wouldn't embrace tattoos- more and more are getting them. But not just and more people, but more pastors and leaders and key influencers as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah and why do you think, what is their motivation to get these tattoos?
Speaker 4:Yeah. Every person had a unique answer, but as I started to compare their answers to each other, I found there was three key things that set everyone was starting to say and the first one was simply that- Number one, w e l iked t hem. T hey viewed tattoos as an art form and so obviously if I didn't like them, they wouldn't get them. Number two was really Christian focus and that was tha t the y see their tattoos as a for m of wo r ship. Ye a h. Wh ich was I thought was interesting and specifically three different ways. That the tattoos ser ved as worship. U h, th e first one, it wa s a real call for them to praise. Some of them will say they see their tattoo when it re minds them to lift their hands to worship, t o sing, to praise God and oft en th ose tattoos had imagery or some word that would remind them to pray specifically.
Speaker 2:I remember Phil when we worked in Shepparton together and you worked as a youth pastor. And I remember why you was reacherching this, you gave the example when you were talking about this, about someone who had tattooed, maybe the Holy Spirit I think it was at the bottom of their foot. Sometimes I like I have tattoos but sometime let's put it in this way. Let's say I wear socks and different socks every week and sometimes I have these religious socks, you know, like socks of of a saint or socks of the Holy Spirit and people get so offended that I'm wearing something sacred on my feet. So why would someone do something like that? Put an image of the Holy Spirit on the bottom of their foot
Speaker 4:I remember this person we are talking about and I when I spoke to them, they said that they got this tattoo at a time when they were learning about the Holy Spirit and so for them they put this tattoo of a dove as a symbol of the Holy Spirit on their foot. And it's a reminder to them, everyday, they should be walking with Jesus. And so it is not just the image that's is important, it's for them it's the location. So even when they put their socks and shoes on that is saying to them, every morning,'Today I want to walk with Jesus.'
Speaker 2:That's right. So couldn't they do it with a less permanent thing for example, like wearing socks of the holy spirit. Why do you think people want something so permanent?
Speaker 4:Something that I found in talking with people about their tattoos, they want to make something that is a identifier of who they are. So I said before there's the artistic value for tattoos, there's the role tattoos play in worship, but the third reason, and this is true for Christians and well as true for people who are not Christian, is that tattoos today play a role in identity formation. And so lot of people, both Christian and non Christian say there's so many impermanent things in life and we really don't have a lot of control over things, but I do have control over myself and my body. And I think putting a mark on your body is a statement of'this is who I am, this is what I believe, this is what I stand for.'
Speaker 2:This is reminding me of the criticism I often get someone quoting, as you have, Leviticus 19'Do not mark your bodies do not tattoo your bodies.' How does that fit in? It's like this is exactly what the Bible seems to be telling us not to do.
Speaker 4:I've had lots of people quote this scripture to me as well and some of the people I've researched too, they've said they had this come up. So, this specific verse you reference to is Leviticus 19:28 it says'Do not make any marks on your flesh for the dead' and when God gave that law, he was specifically talking about when the Israelites come into the promised land of Canaan, don't go copying and mimicking the behaviour of the people living in the land. We're to be different from them.
:These people often like to stick with the verse they want to look at for this. Because Leviticus 19:27 the verse immediately before that says. Don't cut your hair. Don't shave the side of your head. While we're happy to cut our hair and that's one verse and then we take another verse we take another verse, the very next verse and actually missapply it. And it's not even talking about contemporary tattooing, it's a completely different idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But when it comes to contemporary tattooing for example, another thing I've heard is like a tattoo shops, you know, some of them, I've even had people saying that these tattoo shops are demonic. You know, when choosing a tattoo, two fold question is what are the things, Christian should consider before getting a tattoo. And the second thing is should they go to a Christian Tattoo artist?
Speaker 4:Because when I did my research I wasn't a tattooed person. I actually went into my research a little bit unsure about what I would find and as I did my research I actually changed my position from being someone opposed to tattoos to actually thinking it is okay and to the point that I've actually gone and got one tattoo and actually in the process of planning my second one. So the questions that I think need to be considered there is, what makes christian art? Is it that it was done by a Christian person or is it that it's received by someone who is a Christian person? I think if someone is actively involved in certain behaviors that I wouldn't agree with, I would probably be clear that persons business regardless of whether it was tattooing or anything else. I don't think that tattoo itself is an evil thing. It's more what does it represent that has the potential to convey positive or negative.
Speaker 2:And even I've heard of, and I don't know how to true this is, movements or satanists or whatever that pray over the ink and things like that. How does one stay safe from things like that?
Speaker 4:I would probobly take the apostels Paul's approach to that one who applied this thinking to food, don't ask questions. I'm a Christian and I've got the holy ghost living inside of me. He's more powerful than any demon and so I don't need to be worried when I go to marketplace, has this food been offered to an idol or not? I mean, if we did that, we probably wouldn't eat in most Chinese restaurant. They have a little Buddha in the corner.
Speaker 2:I think one of the things, the reasons I got my first tattoo on my right arm, which says'forgiven' and it starts off with your first point, so it always reminded me of God's mercy of the maintenance. You know, every time I look at it and I'm feeling upset or whatever, I just remember it. It's a permanent reminder to me of God's mercy. And you know, there hasn't been one day, one moment that I've regretted that tattoo. No, the other tattoos I have, but particularly this one because it just reminds me so much of God's mercy and it's permanently there.
Speaker 4:Well for me as well. My first tattoo is a picture of a clock with the word'Ephesians' and the hands pointing to 5 and 16 which is'Ephisians 5:16' and for me, in the NIV version, I think it says'making the most of every opportunity' and so I see that as everyday I'm be reminded to make this day count. Knew there's a god.
Speaker 2:Yes and that's beautifull this permanent reminder.
Speaker 4:I didn't get my tattoo from a Christian. I actually asked somebody in Shepparton, where I lived at this time and I spend three hours with this guy as he tattooed my arm. I had wonderful conversation. I was able to, he was asking, what are ephesians? What a beautiful opportunity to sit with this guy, a captive audience for three hours. And I get to share my faith with him and he gets to do the work knowing that he's actually doing something that I perceive as the God's glory. And so even that process for me was a wonderful opportunity. To share faith and inspire somebody else.
Speaker 2:Yes and every opportunity to proclaim the gospel. So Phil as we finish off here, I just want to ask, what advice would you give to someone who has been thinking about getting a tattoo?
Speaker 4:Number one, I do actually dischourage non of the priests from getting a tattoo. You know its a lifelong decission and you should really be sure'this is something I want to keep forever'. I also would encourage people about, what am I putting on my body? What am I showing to the world? What are people g oing t o think about that? I don't think, that tattoos is a bad thing. Culturally, everybody in Australia, not everybody but there is a very br oad pe rspective. So how's it going to b e? H ow's it going to be understood in the future fr om p eople?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so important to consider. Yeah. I don't know if there's anything else you'd like to conclude with something you'd like to leave us with when it comes to your research and and what you found out.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Look, I think one pastor the word that him just came to mind, someone had criticized him. He's got many tattoos on many parts of his body. He said that people were telling him, how could you defile the temple of the Holy Spirit like this? And his response to them was actually, if my body is really the temple of God, I want to make it look as beautiful for him as I can and his pictures they're all beautiful themes of salvation and the cross and the christ and the Holy Spirit. Things that are really core and central to who he is as a Christian. Well, I had another pastor that I spoke to. He actually got his first tattoo before he was saving. He came from a bit of a rough background and he actually had some inappropriate language written onto his body. And once he became a Christian he actually tattooed over that with a cross. And so for him, yes he regrets that first tattoo that he got, but he will look at that cross and it's a reminder to him that the blood of Jesus Christ, the Cross of Christ covers all of his past. That is such a powerful statement.
Speaker 2:That's beautiful. And at the end of the day it's us. So we need to be fighting for our bodies are important. And I'm a big advocate for looking after our bodies. With my training and with clean eating and all of that, but at the end of the day it should never come and we should use every part of our body to help us to help our souls reach to Jesus reach to the cross. So Phil, I really thank you so much for your, your time. I thank you so much for taking this interview and I've found this really interesting. There's a lot I am going to go and take home with me. And so once again, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for your research. Thank you. And then we're going to be praying for you as well. Now you actually studying and you're going to do a doctorate on the Pentecostals and sacramentalism and the Eucharist and things like that. So as, as Catholics also we'll be praying for you that you will, yeah, this will be a beautiful insight for you and for your congregation too.
Speaker 4:Thank you, rob. I really appreciate the opportunity. I personally found this research fascinating and a really insightful. You know in my research. I did look at a lot of literature from Catholic sources and eastern Orthodox sources. To me, tattoos was turned into a beautiful place of overlap between different expressions of Christian faith, and so I really appreciate this chance to chare the results of my research with you today.
Speaker 2:Once again, thank you and please know that we'll be praying for you.
Speaker 4:Thank you, mate. I appreciate it.
Speaker 5:God bless.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for listening to the Catholic Influencers Podcasts today. It's been a joy to have you with us. Remember to get in touch at frgministry.com/podcast or any of our social medias Facebook, Twitter, Instagram with FRG Ministry. See you next week.