Eranos pt 3 w/ The Kingless Generation

Fergal and I head back to the world of Eranos again to talk about the Mercia Eliade, Romanian fascist, esoteric enthusiast, and eventual Chicago professor tied to the only unsolved on-campus murder to ever happen at the University of Chicago

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Kingless Generation, a podcast on the deep history of class struggle, paleo-parapolitics, and the demonology of capital. I'm your host, Virgil Schmoodlock, and I'm once again joined by the great Scott Ryan of the Dust Light Archives podcast. Good morning from Tokyo. How are you doing, Scott?

SPEAKER_01 0:20

I'm doing good. Happy to be back.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Very glad to have you back for our third installment, maybe. I'm gonna lose count, and that's fine. Uh on the Eranos, which, you know, it's gonna be a long thing, it's gonna be an expansive web, right? I have some more material in the podcast, maybe, that I'm gonna just throw in there too. I'm gonna not be concerned about organization um or sequence, but uh we are gonna explore this great big web uh that's gonna go on, you know. I mean, I hear I've heard rumblings too. Uh we have uh maybe a collaborator for a Jung series, uh you know, that can expand even more. You might have another, right? Uh I didn't say that. That would be wonderful. Yeah. Um the Geg and Jung Gesellschaft. Um we might get together. The anti-jung society. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

We can maybe we can come up with some kind of cool thing like opposite of Jungfrau. Did we ever get into that? Jungfrauen as names for his specifically proliferating young female disciples, many of whom he was fucking uh not and many of whom he whose lives nonetheless uh regardless, he was left a trail of destruction in his wake. And there are books, uh multiple books detailing that uh that we want to get into. Um there's the novelist Talbot Mundy, the adventurer, the Indian adventure novelist who's like spreading uh anti-Arab hate and anti-Muslim hate in a in a fascinating way while uh doing the whole like esoteric uh safari pith hat British Empire debonair guy adventure thing.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Yeah, um and I'm like if we were to run out of time, that would definitely be a uh a third guy we could talk about too. Like um, I can't think I'm just outlining like future series, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Actually, I'm thinking not for today.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

I'm actually saying for listeners, like this is the landscape, this is the horizons that I see here that we see.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

No, um it he's a fascinating. I actually can't wait when we do get into him. He is a absolutely wild, like just uh he's an absolute piece of shit, but he also is fascinating in just how much of a bold con artist he was his entire life. And in ways that more than once got him almost beaten to death.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Yeah. Oh wow, okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Mobs of people, yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

You know, all right. I can't wait for that. Um, you know, there's so much stuff. Um, man, that would be classic uh Jimmy Falangong's novels as spy craft territory, actually. Maybe the Ur.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

I thought the same thing. I was like, I wished could he would have got into that at some point. Yes. Um, I think you would have really been able to dig in. But since he's not around to do it anymore, hopefully we can do it some justice.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Yep. Um I think we'll we'll definitely be getting into that if they don't whack us first. I don't know. Um, if the Eranos uh organization doesn't catch up with me on the streets of Tokyo, they'll drop a giant iron altar on me.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Marcus of Return of the Repressed shared in the chat on Patreon, right? That uh that altar was was made of what kind of iron from Sweden was it?

SPEAKER_01 4:23

I was hoping you remembered. I remembered reading it too and being fascinated by it, but I I cannot remember the specific type of it.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

It reminded me of man, I'm such a maybe that's maybe uh this is what a uh this is what uh I just remember what I what it reminded me of, which was that the fact that Tokyo Tower is made of the scrap iron from tanks from the Vietnam War, because they were bringing all the weapons and helicopters and everything back to Japan to be scrapped, so they melted it down and built the Tokyo Tower.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

So I just I just looked it up. It's Swedish iron that was sold in quantities to both sides during the war. And he says he remembers a diary by Hammerskill commenting about this. Um and so basically, like I that would be very fitting uh that it was a mixture of third and fourth Reich iron, more or less.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Oh, yes. Oh, this is, I mean, and once again, classic Jimmy stuff. This is uh the Krupp, the Krupp family, uh perhaps is even involved, right? They'd be the ones actually using the iron to make the steel from Sweden.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Yeah, almost certain. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Yep. Big time connections. And and what better uh thing to cover this time, however, to this time we're getting into maybe well the first really core topic, which would be one of the giant figures, looming, towering figures, Dracula even figures, of Eranos, which is Myrtia Eliade, uh the Romanian, isn't it? Uh fascist and uh mystic and uh like monarchist, uh Catholic restorationist uh guy who was trying for on behalf of the the noble, the aristocratic and industrial bourgeoisie to stabilize the whole capitalist situation and move on to some kind of religious futurist uh monarchist kind of future. Uh and in in the process, he was a dawn of the uh field of religious studies. He maybe have even like invented the field of religious studies and a lot of the the stagist theory that even I use. So, you know, even though I don't, you know, I don't think uh the character of the scientist necessarily invalidates uh science or patterns or or things that people have observed, uh this is very, very core territory for this podcast and for our methodology, even we may have to rethink our methodology here in some ways, because Scott has organized a lot of information about this guy.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Yeah, and and I I think first of all, I was gonna say, so we had talked about covering him, and then I'd also got some stuff on Fury O Yessi, which we had brought up, you know, last episode. And I thought they would be a really good combo because they're weirdly like I don't know, mirror images of each other, especially like very much uh what we used to call them in those old religious pamphlets, like a Donnie do and like Donnie Don't or whatever, of like uh Goofus and Gallant. Goofus and Gallant, there you go. Uh yeah. They're like a uh because they both were like polymaths at 14 years old who were writing for like uh academic publications that were peer-reviewed about like hyper-specific subjects, which is uh pretty you know rare on its own. And then they both had a lot of similar interests. It was just that their interests drove them ideologically in two completely opposite directions. And I think I'll probably be saying this uh like I've already said it before, and I don't imagine it's the last time I'll say it, but like Hans Thomas Hackel is fucking lying about Mercia Eliade.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Like oh wow looking into him, I found out he was lying about Furio Yei, as we found out last time, right? But wow, yes, Eliade. I didn't know that you could, I didn't imagine that you could.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Uh I the uh sort of think, oh, everybody knows about him in the book, if I remember correctly, was kind of that you know his time in the Iron Guard was a youthful indiscretion that was kind of just uh a bad mentor, and him uh having like having not fully formed his himself and uh being in an area where this was very common or whatever, and like kind of acting like he had a change in life later, and like uh Mercia Marcia Eliade's uh main protege would actually say the exact opposite. It was almost certainly murdered for it, uh, which we can definitely get into at some point. But yeah, like I I'm I'm totally of the opinion at this point that I'm like Hans Thomas Hockel's portrayal of him is just it's in it's insane. Uh it's wrong on a uh fundamental level, but like okay. He so the two papers that he wrote very early on, just to give you a little bit of an idea of like him at 14, you know, and kind of where his interests were going. One was just like the enemy of the silkworm, which is just literally like a paper tracking the biological threats to Silkworm cultivation, so like a very technical kind of uh you know, materialist paper. But then the other one was a piece of fiction he wrote where I I'm trying to think of like the best way to kind of sum it up. It is a story about uh it's it's uh it's called How I Discovered the Philosopher's Stone, if you uh translate it to English, and it is about a young kid that seems very much like it's supposed to be him, basically uh inside of a lab trying to figure out alchemy, and then he falls asleep and he has a vision and he realizes that there's like a boundary between the material and the metaphysical that he was missing, or whatever, and that's like a it's a piece of fiction he wrote when he was 14 that managed to get into a uh pretty prestigious journal. Um but he classic voice to just make yourself the hero. Yeah, no, for sure. I I'm always very uh just on a personal taste level, like uh I I think there's some pieces of writing where the author inserts themselves that works, but more often than not, I'm I would be probably opposed to it. Um but he joins the University of Bucharest where he meets uh Nae UNESCO, who is his uh mentor that ends up bringing him kind of into this uh well the uh what's it called? The Archang the uh Warriors of the Archangel, Michael? I have it written down here because it ends up like the the iron um yeah, the iron guard ends up being like a subset of this uh let me see if I can find it real quick. The Legion of the Archangel Michael. So he brings them into this Legion of the Archangel Michael, which would eventually have a paramilitary wing called the Iron Guard. And he writes for their newspaper originally, and this guy, his mentor is very interesting because his mentor already was very powerful. Uh he was an advisor to King Carol II at the time, which would have been the uh king of Hungary, and he was basically the connection point between the king and like Romania's most successful industrial tycoon named Nikola Yamala Yamalachsa. Um and that industrial tycoon Malachsa was uh basically bankrolling his lifestyle in favor uh for him uh communicating with the king on his behalf. Um he was also brokering deals for I. G. Farbin uh in Hungarian royalty as well. And so by the 1920s, he has created the Legion of the Archangel Michael, and in 19 by the 1930s, he has this paramilitary wing called the Iron Guard. And the Iron Guard originally existed in uh as a uh way of attacking striking workers, like their main function was going out and attacking workers that were striking at the time. Um and just googling. Yes, exactly. And he ends up over time uh having uh disputes with the king, and this thing kind of ends up growing to the point where they are uh in open warfare with the Hungarian government, and they actually end up uh at one point they kill a prime minister, and things really kind of go off the rails, and uh Mercea Elade Eliade and uh uh trying to make sure to get these pronunciations right because I'm not super familiar with Hungarian, but uh oh that's hard. The yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

I had to look that up once actually. So S Z is actually a pure S and a regular S is a sh sound, and then Z S is is z. You know it's complicated. No, but at some point maybe we have to we'll just it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

It can be our no, but Mercia El Gate and his uh his um mentor both end up in like a concentration camp. Okay and uh in Hungary uh on the king's orders, right? And right they're both uh kind they both kind of have different reasons for getting out. Uh Mercia Eliade uh starts coughing blood and it freaks out the government at the time because they're not super yeah, well, and and it freaks them out because they're they're not they don't want to kill a public intellectual, they don't want to have to say that a public intellectual died of what they were assuming is tuberculosis um inside of one of their concentrations.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

The good old days used to be able to get out of prison so much easier, and they used to not seriously, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

No well a lot of that has to do with his class status, though, too, because oh right, uh because they basically they realized him and uh Nia Ionescu, his uh mentor, are both sick. Uh and Nia Ionescu's got a bad heart, and he's probably not gonna live that long. So they basically they put him in a compound away from the um concentration camp, and they kind of they just let him die peacefully. They know he's not gonna be that long, they don't want him to die in the concentration camp. And then they bring Mercia Eliad first to a hospital and then to a sanatorium because they want him away as well as a uh murder basically everybody else in that camp that was in the Iron Guard that was uh arrested at the time. So they end up killing, I think it's somewhere around like 70 Iron Guard members, and uh but they were lower level, so you know didn't matter as much to them. Uh and their time at the concentration camp is interesting too because he that's where their metaphysical side and their uh uh status as a death cult really does manifest through originally Ionesco's teachings, but then it is carried on through Eliade's writings, and they do turn into a really weird uh death cult to the point where like at one point they murder a second prime minister, and the people who murder him all just like drop to their knees and start chanting after they've killed him, like uh um super strange stuff, and so prime minister of Romania.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

What are the sides here? You have like Hungary, what's the relationship between Hungary and Romania here?

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Hungary and Romania, I believe at the time I'm not a hundred percent positive.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Um you got fascism and communism rampaging back and forth, isn't it? And like I'm sure it's really comp complicated.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Kind of at this point it's more of aristocracy in fascism, at least in Hungary. I'm not sure about Romania specifically.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Um there's more work to be there's there's more work for the to to situate that then I guess to be done for the future. Absolutely. Yeah. Um but for and then like also this reminds me of different all the incidents in Japan, right? That might be driving, might be destroying civil society kind of strategically on behalf of these fascist groups, murdering prime ministers and so on. It reminds me of like 515 incident, the 226 incident in Japan.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Yeah, in in fact, they would they would end up in an alliance with a uh second fascist group that was largely the administrative side. Um the uh national legionary state. So like they uh by nineteen forty uh King Carol II has fled, and you have the National Legionary State and uh the Iron Guard as basically their attack dogs. And they're both probably I mean like I fascist is probably the correct term for both of them. They were not uh they did not always have a uh uh like a relate they had a stressful relationship, they had a tenuous relationship to a degree.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Um but they uh they were working together and uh you know it occurs to me one book that one book that I know of but haven't read that could teach us more about the larger context, which we can fill in later. We we'll leave it for now. But um, there is a book called uh civil society roots of fascism in Romania. Real quick.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Interesting. See, so this is funny, like you know, I think we're always trying to learn, and I uh spent a decent amount of time trying to just understand the basics of Hungarian politics for this episode because I knew it would come up, but Prior to prior to this episode, the real kind of blind spot a little bit where I was like, um we dilettantes, we adventurers.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

We're inevitably zipping around all different places and comparing, and you know, scientists of uh the deep history of class struggle, we have to uh fill ourselves in as best we can. And but today we'll just we'll just deal with what you prepared and more it it will age and and uh ferment and mature like a fine wine as we learn more about the context too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

For sure. Um and so at the time the Iron Guard is like I said, working with the National Legionary State, and at this point now, like the gloves are off, and they are just they're doing they're doing pogroms, they're killing uh large amounts of people in the streets, and Mercia Eliade is is one of their largest mouthpieces at the time. Um so basically explicitly defending it, at least as of 1941. And uh, like for instance, one of the uh mass killings that I had read about, they were taking people and hanging them for meat hooks, um just real nasty stuff, and they actually are so chaotic and unpredictable that Hitler ends up backing the National Legionary Front instead because the the Nazis, yeah, exactly. They're just uh they're this strange death cult that is unpredictable and uh not I think not stable enough for him. Um, so at that point, uh Mercia flees and he uh moves to Lisbon, Portugal, and he spends years writing propaganda for the fascist regime there, as well as like being a supporter of the Axis, I mean, throughout the war. Um yeah. Which I don't remember if Hawkel actually ever said in the book.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

I'm page I was paging through just now and like remembering I he's he's always running interference, he's running the you can see him jumping around, like put setting the pick, setting the screen, uh being like, well, he had this actually he had this position with this radio station, and like this is the most extreme thing he ever said, and it was this thing that wasn't you know, he he actually was praising his friends, I mean his fellow fascists, the Zionists. Uh and he so he wasn't anti-Semitic. Once again, like the main thing he's interested in is just like if they weren't like if they weren't anti-Semitic against Zionists, then it was fine.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Yeah, no, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Um which I would say even based the main uh pages are 174 to 176. I'll say, you know, and you can you can check this. He's just like uh he actually had this Jewish friend, uh rabbi who wrote a book called Karl Marx Anti-Semite. Uh and he was a raging Zionist, and so these fellow fascists who were just uh Jewish and just not Jewish, uh they got along just fine. So see, he wasn't an anti-Semite.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Yeah, and it it's funny. I think we've talked about before what a uh what a poor and dishonest standard that kind of is when you're trying to uh pin somebody down ideologically, but I would say even by that standard he would still fail because he was writing propaganda for the Iron Guard in 1941, and a lot of the mass killings were pogroms of Jewish people, like even that example I was talking about where they were hanging people from meat hooks, it was Jewish people. They were they were and it was uh some sort of to my general understanding, it's some sort of like kind of you know sick joke having to do with like kosher food or whatever. Like so, even based on that incredibly like even if like draining the blood out of the meat, yes, exactly kosher meat. So even if we were given that incredibly still argue, he fails at it.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Oh yeah, and well, what they say here is just like um a lot of this is about maybe uh close associate, um Cornelio Caudrianu. Cornelio Cadrianu is a is that an associate of his? I forgot already. Uh but he they you know he is just saying like when I say Jewish, I just mean the criminal Jewish hand of Moscow. When I say communist, I mean Jew. Um so the anti-communist Zionist Jewish reader reading Hawkel can just be like, oh, okay, so I'm good, you know. Yeah. No, absolutely. And and switching out for Cornelio Caudrianu might have a strategic value as well. You know, you gotta think about these strategies. This is fascinating how you can change the subject to a slightly different figure and be, well, this guy is basically this guy, and then this other guy like says this and that, and I can say this about him, but you the reader in your mind are gonna just like be like, Oh, these two are basically the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

I don't put them together. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

Uh and so Cadrianu, is that so Cadrianu's murdered in 1938 on order of King Carol II.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Okay. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Yeah. Maybe that relates to what you were talking about.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

Yeah, yeah, no, there's definitely that.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Yeah, the leader of the Legion of the Archangel Michael is is Cadrianu.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Gotcha. Okay. Yep. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Um in the charge most often leveled against Eliade, says Hawkle, uh, is that he never explicitly distanced himself from this group.

unknown 28:49

Right?

SPEAKER_00 28:50

So that's the charge. So then we just need to talk about this group, and we talk about Kadrianu. Well, he had all these Jewish friends, and you know, they were they were buddies, and it was fine. And they just hated communism. And we all hate communism anyway, right? So yeah, it's fine. Uh and then the pivot to Christian democracy is interesting. At the end of this passage on 175, um, right, and you can see how it's Christian democracy is cut from the post-war uh parties that were promoted as the the kind of substitute for socialist comp parties, um, but that were connected to Catholicism and connected, you know, like the Catholic Catholicism and religion was the the middle ground between fascism and democracy, and fascism and socialism that they wanted to use in the post-war.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Yeah, I was gonna say, even maybe I'm not sure when the term social democracy first got used, but I'd say even between fascism and like social democracy or something like that, like there's that's basically Christian democrats. They are, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

The Christian Democrats are basically the same as social democrats in in like Sweden that like Marcus talks about. Uh that's what was allowed. Yeah. Yeah. In Germany, yeah, Central to East Europe.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

In like conveniently, I don't know, in 1945 he moves to Paris, and that's when he gets a little bit more quiet about his beliefs, uh for sure. He kind of gets a full whitewashing in 1950 when he is through the Aeronautics conferences, to be honest. Like he starts, you know, lecturing there and giving his uh really focusing on the metaphysical and in fact doing what we've seen a lot of these people do, where he really in his later life tries to, I think, in order to whitewash his own reputation, completely divorce the metaphysical from anything material at all. Like to say, like, on the one side, you know, you have this kind of lower base, you know, materialism, and on the other hand, you have this higher, you know, uh transcendental sort of metaphysical spiritualism.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Yeah, the kind of Madonna, like I am a material girl, uh meaning of materialism, as opposed to the the historical materialist conception of history, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:26

Well, I think even beyond that, saying yeah, no, for sure. Um, but I also think even beyond that, just like flat out kind of uh pushing the idea we've seen with several of these people where it's like uh even you know uh material dialectics or any sort of materialist view of history, even is gauche.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

It's yeah, uh Hockel is absolutely there. His final kind of like chapter um epologia chapter there is uh all about that. Like I guess it depends if you're a crass materialist and you only just care about material things, like are children being fed and do they have healthcare? Are they being murdered and uh put into human trafficking networks, etc.? Um or do you care about the spiritual, the higher things in life? Uh which is actually uh aristocratic and high bourgeois uh you know satanic uh rising through the spheres to uh ultimate transcendence and eating the universe.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Yeah, no, it for sure, and like it in it's one of those things that I think does work so conveniently for somebody like Mircelliade because he is uh you know, early on involved in very uh materialist fascist movements that have very much a direct material effect on the world that that is on the wrong side of history by 1945, like in the minds of the average person. And then, you know, he uh ends up being uh able like the he enters Arenos from 1950 to 1956 as was heavily involved there, and then the Bolingen Foundation eventually is the one who gives him the professorship in the University of Chicago. So uh it's like on both ends of it, he is benefiting so much materially from his writing and from his philosophy while at the same time trying to undermine the idea that any of that actually matters.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

Exactly. 177. Uh, we have Hawkel talking about Eliade, you know, quote, had decidedly chauvinistic characteristics, but not any pure anti-Semitism. So he can be chauvinistic. Yeah. That's cool. We get that.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

But yeah. No, uh for sure. I had kind of, you know, I'm I'm always when I'm doing this stuff too, I'm always trying to think of like how to situate people in my own brain in a way that like uh you know ties things to stuff like that I'm that uh is more current or familiar. And like if I had to place him in a modern context, I'd almost say his philosophy is something like the Bronze Age pervert or something like that. Like it's very Christian, it's very militant, uh, but it's very esoteric at the same time. And yeah, it's heavily chauvinist without necessarily uh singling out race directly, almost, you know, uh doing do like doing it from uh sideways angle by just all of the policies you support and all of the things you represent leading to material conditions that create, you know, uh you know, bigotry.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

In these pages, there's actually a lot of listing of Eliada's critics and critical writers on him, which would be a good reference if someone wants to even go further. 177 on in Hockel to 178. Right? Yeah, there's lots of different people that outline that kind of picture of him. Kind of crusader Satanism in a way.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

And just and I know and I know we brought him up in an earlier episode, but just to remind people too, the Bolingen Foundation is largely funded by the Melons.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

It is Yeah, he was really broke, right? Eliade.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

Yeah. Yep. You know, in the Bolingin Foundation in specific, they brought him over and gave him a professorship in Chicago, uh, in the University of Chicago.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Um Chicago, once again, the birthplace of neoliberalism. Uh, and uh the recent Chapo interview with uh the McMansion Hell scholar of of architecture was actually really fun and good. Um and they declared Chicago the you know, the University of Chicago on the south side there, and then the Obama Lisk, Obama's presidential library, which looks like this evil brutalist cenotaph.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

It's cute, yeah. No, absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:55

This perfect, uh perfect pairing there.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

No, and this is part of that. Yeah, no, absolutely. Um, and this is this is probably uh a little bit of a side tangent, but just when you were bringing up uh Obama's library, I don't know. Uh I was actually learning a while ago about um Scott, and I and I hate to say this because it's the lamest reference point, but it was actually on last week tonight with John Oliver, they did a segment that I ended up seeing on presidential libraries, and I did not realize that it's basically a way of uh directly funding uh what like it's a bribe, like it they're privately funded, and that's why they keep getting bigger and bigger, too, is because it's a way of just essentially funneling money uh to a president without it being a quid pro quo bribe. And yeah, uh it also functions at the same time as a repository for a ton of official documents about that president that they have control over as far as you know who gets to see them and who does not, or whatever. And they can curate them. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

Really, there should be a national national archive that one centralized national archive that every president, all their documents have to go in by law, yeah and that are available for anyone to see with total transparency.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Yeah, no, absolutely. Um as opposed to these libraries, which are giant bribes that are then used to uh push very specific propaganda about you know each of the presidents.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

Um that's something that's one of the big issues in this whole series, too. Like the whole Eranos phenomenon is divided between all these different archives, and like Hawkel is presenting himself as someone who has access to these archives and has bought, indeed, collected a lot of this stuff too. Uh but sometimes actually in the the Eliade section that I just cited, he sometimes will say of a particular critic, uh he says of, for example, Alexandra Leniel Lavastine. Uh she sets particular store by her researches in hitherto unknown archives, citing documents from the English Secret Service milieu, in which Eliade is described as, quote, the biggest Nazi in the Romanian legation, unquote. She links him with known Nazis and fascists and shows herself to be convinced that Eliade was thoroughly steeped in pro-fascist and anti-Semitic attitudes. But that she sets a particular store by her researches in hitherto unknown archives, is this back interesting, backhanded move there. Um and contradictory in this weird way, right? Because like that's that's kind of Hawkels' whole thing. But it's all about yeah, the the custody. It's the custody of the the documents is always such a big issue. Fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

Um so Eliade is Oh oh, this is the other thing I was gonna say. Oh, sorry, go ahead. No, no. Oh, I was just gonna say about his entrance into the um University of Chicago too. Uh there was this act called the McCarron Walter Act in 1952 that happened after World War II, where if you had any documented ties or membership to a fascist organization, you were supposed to have your entry visa immediately denied. Um obviously there were a ton of people who got through that, but he was he was one of them where it never even became an issue. So that obviously suggests, you know, something uh you know, like uh another layer of protection and utility to certain groups of people. Sure enough.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

So he's at Arenos in the 50s. Uh he's at he's got his perch in Chicago.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

He's developing the kind of spiritual roots of neoliberalism, perhaps, are the the coming spiritual, the coming reconquest, while the so-called Chicago boys were working on the material economic angle.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Yeah, no, it it would really be after you were uh ta mentioning what you were saying about the you know the the Chapel Trap House episode you were listening to about Chicago, it did get me thinking where I'm like, man, it would be interesting definitely to take a whole list like for somebody to take a holistic look at what was going on in Chicago in that time period, because you are totally right. You have the Chicago boys, you have uh the University of Chicago, and you have uh um the you know, and that would be where Obama would end up emerging out of before too much longer, a few decades later, or whatever. Uh it's where you know John Wayne Gacy uh largely uh you know, he had he had tons of ties to the Chicago mob and stuff. Uh I mean, so it in Chicago politics. So like there's definitely, I mean, it's a big city, so I think you might be able to do that with any city, but it definitely there is something interesting there.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Hmm, for sure. And what is he doing? He is uh updating fascism for the post-war. On 182 in Hawkell, there's uh quote from Eliade writing to Eugene Ionesco saying, psychiatry treats listlessness and nervous problems by helping the patient to integrate into his personality certain conflicts, traumas, obsessions, etc., which are damaging his life. This is exactly what we must do by integrating the traumas, the insults, the mistakes, the crimes, and the fury of the guard, the iron guard in the Romanian fascist uh movement, in order to overcome them. It is not a question of bringing the process to an end, but rather of making a creative act of will and understanding.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

Oh okay, so let's integrate the fascists in is basically what I'm hearing there.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

We need to evolve it, we need to move beyond it. And and for the kind of, you know, I don't know, somebody who wants to read this and be a soccer mom or be, you know, a bourgeois. Like petty bourgeois kind of head in the sand denialist about this. You know, and that's a fascinating dynamic that you were talking about last time, Scott. Like where how what is it that makes I forget the exact context, but what when someone wants to just be like, oh yeah, there's nothing here. There's nothing to see here. Reflex. Uh for Hawke, I think what he wants to do with this is do make that happen for some people with this. Like, oh yeah, he see he called it crimes. He called it crimes, he called it mistakes, he called it traumas. He's a good guy. We can trust everything, he says now. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

No, absolutely. I and I think that's how so much uh you know bad uh journalism or critical theory or whatever works, is they're sort of they're speaking to people who don't who are uncomfortable with the actual reality of history and of things that have happened in the world. And so if you give them any sort of anything they can grab onto where they can go, oh okay, I was right, actually it wasn't that bad. And there's something that's very uh validating about that, and very, you know, we can move on now, you know, we can go back to brunch or whatever is you know back to brunch, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

And back to the the basic presumption of goodwill that we that we want to we we want to uh attribute to this person, right? I think we were talking about that in connection with Jung last time for a minute.

SPEAKER_01 45:39

Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. Um, so I was gonna say too, I thought it was interesting. So he he does spend from the next 30 years teaching at the University of Chicago, where he is, you know, uh uh introducing and influencing and mentoring, you know, God knows how many other scholars which are then spreading out with these same ideas. Very good. And yeah, and he like at the time though, like this his past was always something that was looming over him, like it never really disappeared, but he managed to get to the end of his life without it ever coming back in full force in a way that really affected him. But then a little bit after he died, actually, I thought it was funny. This is another reason why I think Hockel's uh you know, extremely hyper specific focus on well, do we know if they were an anti-Semite? And if they were an anti-Semite, were they always an anti-Semite, or was it a phase, or whatever? Really kind of goes out the window. Is one of the first uh places that really attacked his reputation was actually an Israeli newspaper. Um, which is which is interesting, and and it was based on his history with the Iron Guard and the Iron Guard's anti-Semitism.

SPEAKER_00 47:11

Um and in the early years in in Israel, there kind of was slightly more, even if you know um left-wing Zionism was never really a thing, uh, they had to allow a lot more kind of just basic uh Jewish view of history that could encompass truths like that in Israel.

SPEAKER_01 47:33

Yes, absolutely. And on top of that, I know we've mentioned him before briefly, we might have to dig more into him at some point, but Gersham Sholem, uh who was also a member of the Arab Roundtable, was good friends with Mercia Iliade for quite a while and uh and wrote some letters to him interrogating him about his past and didn't like his answers and ended his friendship with him in the 70s.

SPEAKER_00 48:01

Yep. I was just in this passage here, Hawkel mentions that there was in preparation for a visit to Jerusalem that did not end up taking place. Uh Gerson Sholem probed and and wanted to know more and so on. I don't know, I don't remember if Hawkel ever explicitly says what you just said that he entered the friendship and just didn't like the answers. He might just kind of leave it hanging.

SPEAKER_01 48:27

Yeah, to my understanding, at least like in my research when I was looking it up, they never communicated again after that. I don't believe he publicly ever disparaged his name, but it was there's no uh evidence of them ever having any association or communication after that event you're describing.

SPEAKER_00 48:45

Right. Um yeah, and I don't know, I'm probably not the person to look into Gershom Sholem in uh in extensu. He he was a popularizer of the uh Zohar, right? And um, you know, his work, his summaries of the Zohar would have been, yeah, and and you know, he's selling his whole thing is selling the Christian Kabbalah and the kind of um Satanist orientalism, I would say, of the um hippy-dippy woo-woo uh side of the uh bourgeois and aristocratic nexus. And he was happy to continue to do that, right? But but he still would kind of hold the line against core anti-semit anti-Semites sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

Yeah, no, it given how much we Yeah, yeah, no, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 49:45

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

I was just gonna say, given how much we know about what these people were willing to accept, whether it be the uh the Israeli press or whether it be Gersham Shoem or something, like I think it's very telling how that they chose to, you know, either dissociate themselves from him in the case of Gersham Shoem or or publicly write exposes on him in the case of the Israeli press.

SPEAKER_00 50:14

Everybody, you know, and this is something that comes out in a lot of your series, Scott, on the Dust Light Archives, uh, is like everybody in this Nexus is like uh bribed or blackmailed or brainwashed. The three B's of a cult, a cultic milieu, as Hawkel um proudly calls Aranos. That's part of his sum up summing up, is like it's not a religion, it's not it's not a religion, it's not a cult, it's not a or well, no. What is he what does he not want it to be? I don't know. He thinks that it's really cool that he's able to call it a cultic milieu at the end. Yeah, because it because it's not political. It's not political. It isn't uh yeah, it isn't like a political party, it isn't uh directly controlling governments or anything. It's a cultic milieu, it's just religious.

SPEAKER_01 51:06

Although, although so many of these people would go on to play roles in controlling politics like for decades after, like it's so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:16

I mean, if you're noted today, uh, especially if you're noted leftist, you know uh that cults are are the whole game. Cults are the name of the game.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

Absolutely, and like and there's just I I would be hard pressed to find almost any group you could you could argue was non-political, but certainly a group that was hiding in Switzerland during the middle of World War II that then went on to interact with you know what half a dozen governments at least afterwards is certainly political. Like um uh so then I guess the other thing that I had mentioned earlier that I was hoping to get into with Eliade in particular that I found to be absolutely fascinating is so he had this star pupil and successor whose name was Yohan Kolianu. And he uh was very much uh defender of Mercea Eliade. He was a guy who was really interested in the metaphysical aspects of which was what he was largely teaching at the time, and when he uh ends up, and and I believe Hockel does mention him briefly in his book, if I remember correctly, but certainly does not get into the absolute like insanity of this guy's whole story. There's no end entry in the index, just I was not a single entry, okay. So I'm giving him a little bit too much credit there.

SPEAKER_00 53:04

I was thinking maybe it could be in there, but he didn't index it, which is meaningful perhaps.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

Yeah, which would be which would be interesting on its own. Um, but he uh wrote a book in 1984, just kind of give you an example of where this guy was in like 1984 called Eros and the Renaissance.

SPEAKER_00 53:27

Uh he's about he's mentioned 14 times in the book. He's mentioned 14 times in the book, so he's been suppressed from the index, we should say.

SPEAKER_01 53:36

Interesting. Wow, okay. Yeah, he's a guy you probably man I you know more you know more than me growing up, like spending so much time in academia. Like, is this is this like academic sleight of hand, like these these weird, like uh I don't know, the non-indexing or these poor citations and stuff. Like, like what do you read that as?

SPEAKER_00 54:04

I yeah, I don't know. I mean, I guess one thing that you could say, I who knows, you know, you it's something you can never prove. Um yeah, you learn these things about like what do you do when you're citing. Uh one thing that's interesting listening to New Books Network, uh, which is the academic podcast uh master list where you get all the author interviews for new podcasts uh or new uh academic books. And uh it's a great way to find out about things that aren't in your field. You know, you just get a quick listen. And um yeah, it's great. But uh one phenomenon there kind of war history, political history, diplomatic history, uh you get this genre of book where the author is just like the US Army asked me to write this book, or the US government told me to write this book. And they'll just they'll just say that. You know, there's that kind of book. That's interesting. There was a fascinating one recently, like uh it was called like the Howard Zinn. They took Howard Zinn's title and they called it A People's History of Taiwan. And the uh the author, though, had this interesting conflictual relationship with the whole project because he one admitted, yeah, the government just asked me to write this book. Um, but I'm kind of now actually I'm totally precarious as an academic, and I there's no jobs anywhere at all. So uh I'm my life is totally fucked. Uh he sort of admits at the end of the interview. Um, and you wonder if that didn't kind of make its way into the rest of the interview, because he actually does um give devote relatively little time to the obvious obligatory conclusion of the book, which is like Taiwan is neither Chinese nor Japanese nor American, and it should be independent and uh it should not uh unify with China at all.

SPEAKER_01 56:10

Um that was what I was kind of imagining is that they do get a people's history of Taiwan's.

SPEAKER_00 56:18

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's why that's the whole angle, obviously, from the beginning. And I love the people's history of Taiwan, so like, yeah, the Jacobin crowd will be wanting to like read it. I I I guess they imagined. For sure anyway.

SPEAKER_01 56:32

Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 56:33

Yeah, it's all uh but it's it's often unspoken, and yeah, there's so much that's unspoken and it's soft, and yeah, and the way that you do footnotes is is part of that for sure. So but yeah, he's mentioned 14 times and not in the index. Um Yohan Kulianu.

SPEAKER_01 56:53

Okay, and I'm and I'm sorry if I'm maybe if I didn't grasp entirely what you're saying, or if I'm beating a dead horse or something, but to have a person's name in there 14 times, is that is that weird? Is that lazy? Is that typical?

SPEAKER_00 57:08

Like well, okay, like actually up until in the main body of the text, it's only three times. And then one, two in the notes though, one, two, three, four, five, often um, he's yeah, I mean and then he's mentioned in yeah, so one, two, three, four, five, six, seven times in the notes that he's mentioned. Not always just as like this is the author of a book, but you know, Yohan Kulianu says he uh see the analysis here that he Yeah, there's so I don't know. Yeah that that's maybe new I don't know if I can attribute a big conspiracy to that, but interesting.

SPEAKER_01 58:04

So so before we get into that's his big disciple, uh yeah, so it so before we get into like uh and and I think the seeds were always planted for this guy to be a real one, uh because even when he was under uh Eliade's mentorship, he did write a book in 1984, which I would love to read called Eros in the Renaissance, which the basic concept behind it is about how modern psyops are just reconfigured renaissance magic given a uh secular sheen.

SPEAKER_00 58:38

Oh wow, that sounds great. Yeah, oh so this guy is actually kind of kind of cool. Yes, no, for sure. Tell me more about that.

SPEAKER_01 58:50

Yeah, so he uh does stay under his under his tutelage until his death, uh until uh Eliade's death in 86, which would have been two years after he wrote that book. And uh in 1989, and like I said, I've been uh really I've been trying to get a grasp on Hungarian history. Some of this is new to me, so uh to describe it as best I can to my understanding, uh it was a socialist country in name, although arguably not very socialist, certainly by 1989. And uh what could maybe broadly be described as a color revolution happened, like a a uh revolution of uh that seemed to be have popular support, that was a kind of palest coup that was definitely influenced by outside forces, where they ended up uh the dictator at the time is uh they actually executed him on television, uh, which was pretty wild. Uh in fact, they had him in a cage for an hour at a trial beforehand, and his defense attorneys at one point completely give up defending him and also just start berating him, um which is pretty wild. But I mean, more or less like to break it down, whether or not I do not think I get the impression that the Hungarian uh Hungarian socialism was not something that we as uh communists or Marxists should should probably want to emulate or look at, but it still was directly tied to, I mean, the Soviet Union fell, and then you know, we we got uh neoliberal I to even call it neoliberal democracy.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:56

I mean it Viktor Orban was young in all of this and would eventually end up rising to so you know it's everything is on a knife's edge, and you can get you know dialectical history moves dialectically, so you can get some of the worst shit out of some of the best shit pretty quickly, uh if it isn't all very you know mature and kind of stupid.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:18

And I get the impression this movement was never genuine. This was a movement of the you know, the neoliberal West to take over this territory to place somebody in there that would, you know, work with them or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:34

But that's really important too. Yeah. Yeah. Uh yeah, maybe I shouldn't say that so much. I mean, actually, like uh that's yeah, maybe that's not so true, you know. That it's true that history moves dialectically, but like you shouldn't be afraid, you know. Like this this that can be propagandistic in a bad way, too, right? Where it's like um anyone who tries to change the world, you can set out to change the world and just become Jim Jones, can't you? But no, Jim Jones was like, there's there Jim Jones wasn't sincerely trying to do something and just like oops, oopsy daisy. No, no, you shouldn't no, let's not do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:16

No, but no, that's been a whole that's been a whole incredible historical moment that I've definitely read a lot on that I'm absolutely fascinated by for sure. Like, you know, it it is a good example of how a lot of the time, you know, you've always got to be looking out for uh the for for counter for revolutionaries that are really counter-revolutionaries for sure. Um, have counter-revolutionary backing behind them.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:50

Yeah, so a lot of this Hungarian stuff, I mean there was a lot of that in there, right? Um, there's a book on the um Solidarnost, the the Polish uh org that helped bring down the Soviet Union from within Poland. Uh, I have a book, um so un solidarité ki akute sher.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:12

Um solidarnost, a solidarity that that cost that cost dearly yeah, um I had a very, very uh limited understanding of that, but I do believe uh yeah, there was a bunch of uh kind of uh astroturfed worker strikes and stuff in that time period.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:34

Pope John Paul II was a big supporter of that. Yeah, it was Catholic and kind of branded as nice fuzzy democracy, but um so okay. Back to Hungary.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:48

Yeah, okay. So so the reason I the reason I was bringing all of that up was one, just because I I found it kind of interesting when I was reading about it, but two, this whole state of affairs ends up uh absolutely turning Yoan Kelianu, uh, where he no longer uh where he he is completely uh basically anti-Aliade at that point. He understands enough about Hungarian history that in his mind and in his writings, he felt like he could he could no longer see the Iron Guard as a youthful mistake and instead could only see the Iron Guard as a force that never left that directly led to the Hungarian Revolution in 1989. And uh because of that, he uh was openly hostile about Eliade's past, and uh to the point where Eliade's wife actually uh had tried to con like contact him and get him to stop, and he was just he was on the war path about this at this point. And uh he starts receiving death threats from Romania telling him to stop talking about Eliade, telling him to stop talking about the Romanian government, and uh uh I'm sorry, the Hungarian government, and he uh Romanian? I don't know. I this what this is where my knowledge is a little bit I um death threats from yeah, be the Hungarian government.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:33

Uh he well, I here it's interesting. One of the references to Kulianu, um page 182 in Hakel, uh a letter from Eliade to Kulianu on on uh the 17th of January 1978. Um oh, and I found him in the index. He was just under Kulianu, I'm sorry. Um so I guess scratch that. It that was an interesting meditation. We'll we'll Um but anyway. Um there he is. Uh so uh he says as for CZC, I don't know I don't know what CZC is. It isn't really I can't find but like fear must have been his constant companion. Um it would not even have been possible for him to return to his homeland of Romania, which stood until 1989, until under communist rule, and where his iron ground guard background was known. What alternatives did he have other than to keep silent? You know, maybe within him he had this great uh kind of anti-fascist uh consciousness that had grown within uh Eliade's heart, and we can just you're free to imagine that. Please imagine that right now, reader. Um, because you yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:54

Sorry, don't you?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:55

Well, but uh I want to say in this letter, um, as for CZC, it's it's unclear. I don't know what to think. He was assuredly uh so who would that be? Is that the one of the mentors that was under discussion? Um is that there was uh oh Caudrianu? Would that be Cornelio Codrianu? It could be Corneliu Kodrianu. That would make a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:25

Okay, got it. Yep, yep, yep, yep. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:27

He was assuredly an honest man and man and managed to awaken a whole generation, but since he lacked political discernment, he also made possible the avalanche of repression. Carol II, Antonescu, the communists, which decapitated the whole generation, he had, quote, brought to life. I do not think anyone, so here, this is why I wanted to read this. I do not think anyone can write an objective history of the Iron Guard movement or draw a portrait of CZC, uh, which would be Cadrianu, his own mentor. Yep. Available documents are rare and insufficient. What's more, an objective attitude may be fatal to the author who would undertake it. So even you have Eliade telling Kulianu you will be targeted. Yeah.

unknown 1:08:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:23

Um and uh can and real quick before we get to the the the kind of final act with what happened with him, I am curious because I like I said, I I am kind of using this project myself of the Dust Light Archives and working on this with you, I have been trying to kind of piece by piece put together geopolitical stuff that uh I maybe had cursory knowledge of or not as much, like with the um with my Nexium series right now. I've really been trying to do that with like the last few hundred years of Mexico or uh, you know, the Yugoslavian uh the Yugoslavian Civil War. And I uh am curious. So do you understand the the difference between Hungary and Romania? Like what is that distinction?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:17

Well, Romania is uh um it's a romance language, first of all, Romanian. You can it's almost like mutually intelligible a tiny bit with like Portuguese. There are certain sentences I recently saw somebody was passing around a kind of fun little thing like that. Um so it's a romance language, is the biggest biggest thing. Hungarian is a is a is a language that belongs to the larger um Uralic group, maybe it's non-Indo-European. It's complete it's completely non-Indoean, right? So that's another difference. And then you have Czech. The Czechs are in there. Uh Czech is a Slavic language, isn't it?

unknown 1:10:02

Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:02

Yeah. Linguistically differences.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:06

Yeah. I was wondering, like, do you know as far as statehood goes, like where those lines are well uh Hungary was part of the um the whole area was under Ottoman rule at different times.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:22

So it has a history of being Muslim and being on a that Eastern European like Muslim Christian frontier. So that all factors into the um crusader ideology and stuff there.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:39

Yeah, and then uh okay, okay, cool. Um, so I was just uh so basically he like I said, he's getting these death threats, he is uh going hard against Eliade, and then he ends up being murdered in a bathroom in the University of Cal or of Chicago uh in the middle of the day. Holy screen. And there's a couple of inter Yeah, and there's a couple of interesting facts about it that really point to it being a uh uh an orchestrated hit. Because first of all, he's killed with a 25 caliber pistol, which is uh a if you're trying to kill somebody, it it is like a good sign that it's an assassin's weapon if it's a 25 caliber, it's a very small caliber gun, and it requires you to like you can shoot somebody in the head with a gun like that. And if you don't hit them in the right part of the head, they're not gonna die. Like but it has the advantage of being very small and relatively quiet. Um you have to actually shoot them specifically in the cerebellum if you're shooting a 25 caliber gun and you want to.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:54

So not just not a common like street street gun that someone would keep for bump in kind of violence and protection and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:05

Yeah, no, no, uh, it is uh yeah, one of the one of the weakest kind of guns, but it does have advantages, like I said, for a uh for an assassin. And also the person who killed him tow the casings, uh, which is also a fairly good sign of an orchestrated hit. Also the fact that the killer was never found, uh and the investigation just kind of died out.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:32

Um right.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:34

Wow.

unknown 1:12:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:37

Yeah, uh, so I thought I thought that was pretty interesting. So it's like if we really look at it, if we take Hockel's uh, you know, case he makes for for him, it's like, okay, well, his friends in the uh very uh fashion friendly Israeli government and his own uh protege all would uh have very different ideas or stories to tell. And I mean in the case of his protege, probably to the point where it cost him his life.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:11

Wow. Yeah, and that letter would suggest that Eliadeh also sensed that he was looking into things that he shouldn't.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:20

Well, I mean, Eliade dies in 86, and that book I was mentioning to you is 84. And so I'm like, he had to be in going down that route when you start talking about psyops' renaissance magic repurposed, like you're you're no longer uh in the ideological world of Arios.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:42

You're talking out of school a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:46

Yes, and you're specifically uh I mean, I mean, to to that thesis requires you to connect the metaphysical and the material. Like there's no way to have that thesis and be like, oh, but none of it actually matters because like psychological operations are specifically designed for their material effect, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:10

Yes, yes, and that's what being communoided is all about. Is we look at we look at the conspiracies as uh a class acting in its material class interest to uh affect relations of production in a way that will be advantageous to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:31

Absolutely. Um, and so I I don't know if you had any other thoughts. I'm looking now. I don't have as much on Furio Yessi, but I do know in about 10 minutes or so I've got to get going.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:49

So I maybe it's a good time to to wrap up. Furio probably deserves his own whole whole thing. We're gonna get to him.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:57

I didn't want to shortchange him, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:59

We're gonna tell him, we're gonna say, like uh like Carmela Soprano, you know, uh oh Furio, uh, why don't you come over and have some gabago? I'll make a big lasagna for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:16

Um we'll have Furious over properly, and just and just like Furio from the Sopranos who end up pissing off a uh powerful fascist.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:26

Yes, exactly. Um well, so for now, that's a good place to wrap up. Thanks so much for coming by. This is Scott Ryan from the Dust Light Archives. Um, any other messages uh you want to leave listeners with for now?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:45

No, um I have uh my latest episode up that uh I put up in tandem with ours last week. I'm gonna be dropping another episode in a couple of days. Um I hope people enjoy them. I am uh I'm I pretty I've generally used bullet points and the amount of research I put into these latest episodes, I scripted the whole thing word for word because I'm like, if I don't, I'm gonna end up, you know, making small mistakes or whatever. So I really did put uh a ton of elbow grease into this. So uh I hope people enjoy it. Um I've got a brand new Patreon. Uh you're on Patreon, that's right. Incredible. Yeah. Um I'm on there. And yeah, no, then thank you. Thank you so much. I was uh very much an honor. I I'm sure you know from having your own Patreon, it's like uh man, every time to just know somebody gave enough of a damn to be like, oh, I like what they're doing enough to want to contribute to it. It's an incredible feeling. Like every single person, every new person I think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:06

Yeah. Thank you so much to all of you who are supporting um just any of this independent media, you know. If you like a creator, um this is the the last, this is some of the last gasps of the human spirit and the human intellect that uh are still going in the face of so much repression, because that's what we really face is like a total assault on human intelligence and ability to perceive the world and what is happening, right? So yeah, it and somebody like Scott Ryan, who's doing such meticulous work, uh, so much respect to you. And uh thank you. It's an honor to have you by. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:51

Thank you, thank you very much, and I'm I'm excited to come back and continue to talk to you about this.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:56

All right, can't wait for next time. In the meantime, I'm Fergal Schmoodlock, and I have anointed you with the anointing of the kingless generation.